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dastardly8
17-09-2016, 05:05 PM
When are we going to learn ! , we dominate chances but don't take them , today 14 shots to 3 and get beat this was the trend last season , take away the red card we should still have put Ayr to the sword, QOS are taking their chances and I can see a real battle all season unless we start taking the chances , thoughts ?

cabbageandribs1875
17-09-2016, 05:09 PM
just as well we're 'skooshing' this league

Callum7
17-09-2016, 05:11 PM
This is Neil Lennon's side I don't think it's fair to be comparing it to Stubbs' side.

Fifehibby74
17-09-2016, 05:11 PM
Massive game next week. Qos are playing well. We've still to beat a team in the top half of this league (you could say we've beaten ourself today!)
Need a reaction from the team and manager next week. If your not performing you should be dropped. Plenty boys on the bench keen go get a starting place - Boyle, keatings and graham Maybe be a different game against a team that will attack us and not sit in.

HoboHarry
17-09-2016, 05:16 PM
When are we going to learn ! , we dominate chances but don't take them , today 14 shots to 3 and get beat this was the trend last season , take away the red card we should still have put Ayr to the sword, QOS are taking their chances and I can see a real battle all season unless we start taking the chances , thoughts ?
You forgot to blame Petrie.....

madhatter
17-09-2016, 05:16 PM
If we hadn't got Bartley sent off then we wouldn't have lost.

Fyvie needs help in midfield. McGinn had spells of decent play, before being sent off Bartley did well breaking up play. Shinnie was very poor and did little to nothing today should have been off at half time.

HappyAsHellas
17-09-2016, 05:18 PM
Most of our chances today were from outside the box as we don't have the necessary skill or determination to use width to break teams down. Our crossing is simply atrocious, with decent delivery we could have been 3 or 4 up at half time. If we're going to play the diamond with 2 sitting midfielders again then we will struggle in the same way we have for the last 2 seasons. Was hoping our manager might have addressed this problem but like Mr Stubbs before him he seems totally unaware, or unwilling to do anything about it. How about Forster at right back? He's certainly capable of more goals than Gray and if he can cross a ball it must be worth a shout. Ditto with Crane for Lewis who has to stop cutting in all the time, doing exactly what the opposition want him to do. Oh, and what about hitting a cross into the box first time for a change instead of having to use the seeming obligatory five or six little passes first?

Hi Heid Yin
17-09-2016, 05:27 PM
Our inability to put chances away has haunted us for the past 2 seasons, and today's game was a stark reminder that we still have the ability to contrive defeat from the jaws of victory.
And once again we have to rely on Jason Cummings to put the ball in the back of the net. Not enough players have stepped up to the scoring plate - chipping in/bailing us out over the past 2 seasons either and we appear to have slipped back into that same routine.
After Bartley's piece in the Evening News, I had a gut feeling that he would make his mark in the Ayr game, but for all the wrong reasons.
What on earth possessed him to let his colleagues and manager down with such a wreckless tackle? It wreaked of indiscipline, sloppiness and complacency.
Neil Lennon said: "we are not good enough to be complacent" and how apt and timely that statement was.
Next weeks game against QOS is already a "must win" game. Confidence and momentum are crucial.
Of course, it is still early doors and a long hard season lies ahead, and we have, without question, the most talented squad in this division, but no team will simply lie down and hand us the game on a plate. We have to fight and believe through every 90 minutes and let the opposition worry about us.

dastardly8
17-09-2016, 05:37 PM
This is Neil Lennon's side I don't think it's fair to be comparing it to Stubbs' side.

I'm not comparing Stubbs to Lennon , my point is the same return from chances , we should have blown teams away last season which we didn't with a high ratio of chances same this season , maybe time to change formation to suit ?

21.05.2016
17-09-2016, 05:41 PM
Totally dominated the game, they were never in it. We should have been at least 2 up at HT.


Our own worst enemy at times, once again an abundance of missed chances cost us.

Onion
17-09-2016, 05:44 PM
When are we going to learn ! , we dominate chances but don't take them , today 14 shots to 3 and get beat this was the trend last season , take away the red card we should still have put Ayr to the sword, QOS are taking their chances and I can see a real battle all season unless we start taking the chances , thoughts ?

Agree it's frustrating, but would be MUCH more worried if we weren't creating the chances. We WILL score more goals than most of the teams we play, and we WILL win this league - probably by a good margin.

lyonhibs
17-09-2016, 05:46 PM
Calm down. Hopefully folk stop taking wins for granted, but we should still have enough for this league.

Basildon Hibs
17-09-2016, 05:49 PM
Our inability to put chances away has haunted us for the past 2 seasons, and today's game was a stark reminder that we still have the ability to contrive defeat from the jaws of victory.
And once again we have to rely on Jason Cummings to put the ball in the back of the net. Not enough players have stepped up to the scoring plate - chipping in/bailing us out over the past 2 seasons either and we appear to have slipped back into that same routine.
After Bartley's piece in the Evening News, I had a gut feeling that he would make his mark in the Ayr game, but for all the wrong reasons.
What on earth possessed him to let his colleagues and manager down with such a wreckless tackle? It wreaked of indiscipline, sloppiness and complacency.
Neil Lennon said: "we are not good enough to be complacent" and how apt and timely that statement was.
Next weeks game against QOS is already a "must win" game. Confidence and momentum are crucial.
Of course, it is still early doors and a long hard season lies ahead, and we have, without question, the most talented squad in this division, but no team will simply lie down and hand us the game on a plate. We have to fight and believe through every 90 minutes and let the opposition worry about us.


'Our inability to put chances away has haunted us for the past 2 seasons,'

Correct. Our 'goal-scoring chances / Chances converted' ratio is very poor. Especially from Holt. Drop the ones who aren't putting them away and see if this puts a rocket up their ar$es.
We may rue these misses which could ultimately cause us problems towards the end of the season if we are not careful...

:Ummm:

dastardly8
17-09-2016, 05:49 PM
Totally dominated the game, they were never in it. We should have been at least 2 up at HT.


Our own worst enemy at times, once again an abundance of missed chances cost us.
Give a decent striker 14 chances and how many should he score ?

PompeyHibs
17-09-2016, 05:55 PM
Only Scoring 1 goal a game is the problem. We are playing in thr 2nd tier of Scottish fitbaw, we should have enough quality in the team to score more than 1 goal a game.

Last two games, 1 pen v Dumbarton and a Screamer from Cummings today.

Midfield need to add goals, unlikely that any of our midfielders will score 8-10 goals this year. Which is pretty poor going

Basildon Hibs
17-09-2016, 06:05 PM
Give a decent striker 14 chances and how many should he score ?



More than our ones are at the moment and have done in the past....:wink:

Mikey09
17-09-2016, 06:24 PM
Our inability to put chances away has haunted us for the past 2 seasons, and today's game was a stark reminder that we still have the ability to contrive defeat from the jaws of victory.
And once again we have to rely on Jason Cummings to put the ball in the back of the net. Not enough players have stepped up to the scoring plate - chipping in/bailing us out over the past 2 seasons either and we appear to have slipped back into that same routine.
After Bartley's piece in the Evening News, I had a gut feeling that he would make his mark in the Ayr game, but for all the wrong reasons.
What on earth possessed him to let his colleagues and manager down with such a wreckless tackle? It wreaked of indiscipline, sloppiness and complacency.
Neil Lennon said: "we are not good enough to be complacent" and how apt and timely that statement was.
Next weeks game against QOS is already a "must win" game. Confidence and momentum are crucial.
Of course, it is still early doors and a long hard season lies ahead, and we have, without question, the most talented squad in this division, but no team will simply lie down and hand us the game on a plate. We have to fight and believe through every 90 minutes and let the opposition worry about us.


a must win game aye?! It's the middle of September!

Fifehibby74
17-09-2016, 06:27 PM
a must win game aye?! It's the middle of September!

Playing for a team like hibs in this league they should all be must win games.

WWFTWTG
17-09-2016, 06:46 PM
Sending off changed the game - Bartley should know better and, distribution and crossing from Stevenson woeful not for the first time - time to change things now and we need to show more invention against teams like Ayr who will sit in and break well.

Heisenberg
17-09-2016, 06:48 PM
Seems it was a Hibs under Alan Stubbs style performance. Should've been out of sight but weren't. We then shoot ourselves in the foot and it's game over.

rcarter1
17-09-2016, 06:52 PM
Agree it's frustrating, but would be MUCH more worried if we weren't creating the chances. We WILL score more goals than most of the teams we play, and we WILL win this league - probably by a good margin.

Im not sure where this confidence comes from? I agree that we are favourites to win the league as it stands, given the current standard of the team and our budget come Christmas should be miles above the others. But part of the assumption of us being favourites, is that the rest of the teams being unable to put a sequence of wins together. As far as I can see Queens have taken their spinach and look the best side in the division. If they continue as they are we are in for a proper league challenge.

RedHibby
17-09-2016, 07:10 PM
Everything about us not taking our chances and dominating games was said thousands of times last season. If we are going to skoosh this league for me personally we need some width and pace because we are far too predictable. We have a new Manager but the teams short comings are still the same. We will have to improve massively on todays performance to get a result next week. As for being Bartley's fault it is a team game and the team were totally to blame for the defeat today. GGTH.

Mikey09
17-09-2016, 07:20 PM
Playing for a team like hibs in this league they should all be must win games.


There's a difference between how you're spinning that line and how it was put in the other post. The original post was stating next week is now a must win game. So if we don't win it is that the league over? No. The league finishes next May. Not next week.

Famous Fiver
17-09-2016, 07:54 PM
The way I see it is that QoS, Dundee Utd, Falkirk and Raith all have a bit of quality and there are no roll overs in this league.

They all look on Hibs as a big game and raise their game accordingly.

It's a long season but on today's performance it could easily be the play offs again.

Pointless playing in front of teams like we did today, we've got to get the ball in among them and put pressure on defenders to make mistakes.

Easy to say but we have all week to work on it.

I understand Ayr United are part timers, so that means that in 2 two hour sessions they were able to practice their tactics sufficiently well to nullify us and steal the game from under our noses.

McGeouch becomes a better player every time he doesn't play. Give him a chance and he'll change the way we play.

No Bartley next week, I think it is an artificial pitch. They'll have their tails up.

I don't think we are going to skoosh this league, at least not on today's performance.

Hi Heid Yin
17-09-2016, 08:08 PM
There's a difference between how you're spinning that line and how it was put in the other post. The original post was stating next week is now a must win game. So if we don't win it is that the league over? No. The league finishes next May. Not next week.

In order to clarify:
When I say that next weeks game against QOS is a "must win" game, it is because QOS have their tails up, their confidence soaring and they have momentum and belief. We have been reduced to "chasers" after the poor Ayr result and performance. Should we fall even further behind QOS by losing, then our own confidence levels will be jolted and self belief could start to wilt. So, it is, for me, a "must win" game. Every point dropped, even at this early stage in the season, counts as much as those dropped in the last few games.

Fifehibby74
17-09-2016, 08:15 PM
In order to clarify:
When I say that next weeks game against QOS is a "must win" game, it is because QOS have their tails up, their confidence soaring and they have momentum and belief. We have been reduced to "chasers" after the poor Ayr result and performance. Should we fall even further behind QOS by losing, then our own confidence levels will be jolted and self belief could start to wilt. So, it is, for me, a "must win" game. Every point dropped, even at this early stage in the season, counts as much as those dropped in the last few games.

Know what you mean mate. My reply came over the wrong way. Just think hibs should be expecting to win every game in this league (so they are all must win) I'm actually looking forward to the game next week. I'm sure we will be up for it

Edson Arantes
17-09-2016, 08:34 PM
If we hadn't got Bartley sent off then we wouldn't have lost.

Fyvie needs help in midfield. McGinn had spells of decent play, before being sent off Bartley did well breaking up play. Shinnie was very poor and did little to nothing today should have been off at half time.

Wouldn't have lost if Bartley hadn't been sent off?

Seriously?

You meant to type that?

Lennon had us set up all wrong today. Nothing to do with the sending off.

ballengeich
17-09-2016, 08:52 PM
Everything about us not taking our chances and dominating games was said thousands of times last season. If we are going to skoosh this league for me personally we need some width and pace because we are far too predictable. We have a new Manager but the teams short comings are still the same. We will have to improve massively on todays performance to get a result next week. As for being Bartley's fault it is a team game and the team were totally to blame for the defeat today. GGTH.
I generally agree with your post. Width was only coming from the full backs, and by the time they got forward Ayr had everyone back. Balls into the box were sent from way out so the defenders didn't have to turn. We had a number of shots on target, but not many of them were from positions where you'd expect to beat a competent keeper, which Ayr's is.

If Bartley hadn't been sent off we'd probably have won, but it wasn't a convincing performance before the red card. All very last season.

hibbymick
17-09-2016, 09:01 PM
Wouldn't have lost if Bartley hadn't been sent off?

Seriously?

You meant to type that?

Lennon had us set up all wrong today. Nothing to do with the sending off.

Maybe you should give him a call and offer him some advice. What teams have you managed before ?

Edson Arantes
17-09-2016, 09:09 PM
Maybe you should give him a call and offer him some advice. What teams have you managed before ?

Now, that would be telling.:na na::na na:

In case I decide to though, what's his number? You seem a man in the know.

Mr_F
17-09-2016, 09:13 PM
There's no need for a back 4 and a defensive midfielder at home against Ayr United.

Bartley should've been hooked shortly after HT for DMcG to push on to get the 2nd and killer goal.

Groundhog Day stuff

MB62
17-09-2016, 09:21 PM
The thread title was absolutely 100% correct, 'same old same old'.
I thought/hoped that under 'hard nose' ? Lennon we might have got rid of the 'over confidence, shooting ourselves in the foot' syndrome but obviously that just hasn't happened.
The 'same old same old' isn't just about this season, last season or even this century, it is Hibs since I have been supporting them for over 50 years and for probably a lot more than that.
As soon as I heard the players talking about going the season with a 100% record, 6 in a row, defenders not wanting to lose any more goals, etc, etc, I just thought, 'oh no, guys, we are setting ourselves for a fall, why say these things'? My thoughts were, can we not just do the talking on the park and stop giving poor journalists perfect sound bites.
There's a chemistry at the moment that's not quite right throughout the team, a lot of very good players just are not gelling at the moment and maybe we need to try different combinations in midfield, and in particular, up front.
One defeat in 6 is not a disaster, getting beat at home from a team near the bottom of the league is very poor.
There's a long way to go in the season, and whilst next week is far from being a 'must win' game, losing it will now certainly make things a lot more difficult.

Ronniekirk
17-09-2016, 09:27 PM
Anyone else feel we are too reliant on Cummings scoring every week Lennon identified lack of goals as being a problem for us last season but thats just two fro jason in the last two games

Sammy7nil
17-09-2016, 09:33 PM
The thread title was absolutely 100% correct, 'same old same old'.
I thought/hoped that under 'hard nose' ? Lennon we might have got rid of the 'over confidence, shooting ourselves in the foot' syndrome but obviously that just hasn't happened.
The 'same old same old' isn't just about this season, last season or even this century, it is Hibs since I have been supporting them for over 50 years and for probably a lot more than that.
As soon as I heard the players talking about going the season with a 100% record, 6 in a row, defenders not wanting to lose any more goals, etc, etc, I just thought, 'oh no, guys, we are setting ourselves for a fall, why say these things'? My thoughts were, can we not just do the talking on the park and stop giving poor journalists perfect sound bites.
There's a chemistry at the moment that's not quite right throughout the team, a lot of very good players just are not gelling at the moment and maybe we need to try different combinations in midfield, and in particular, up front.
One defeat in 6 is not a disaster, getting beat at home from a team near the bottom of the league is very poor.
There's a long way to go in the season, and whilst next week is far from being a 'must win' game, losing it will now certainly make things a lot more difficult.

This.
Lennon said he would not tolorate complaceny well 2 days later we are beaten at home from a winning position against arguably the worst team we have played this season who prior to this game had 4 points. Lets just stick to a strict party line say as little as possible and win football matches.

familyman
17-09-2016, 09:35 PM
Wouldn't have lost if Bartley hadn't been sent off?

Seriously?

You meant to type that?

Lennon had us set up all wrong today. Nothing to do with the sending off.
Agree, once again our play was too predictable, they had tall defenders who dealt with all those crosses and of course a certain left back crossed poorly yet again.....There must be more involvement off the ball, JC scored a great goal but prior and after that was posted missing ,new signings did not have best of games either especially Sh. We need to look at how the opposition set out their stall and adjust accordingly, we did not do that today .ABOVE ALL WE CONTINUE TO MISS GOLDEN CHANCES..despite new forwards and more direct play..we need runners off the ball to anticipated headers that we do in fact win....Keatings came on too late and yet his runs were far better than most...

Salt N Sauzee
17-09-2016, 09:41 PM
Bedwetters

northstandhibby
17-09-2016, 09:41 PM
Wouldn't have lost if Bartley hadn't been sent off?

Seriously?

You meant to type that?

Lennon had us set up all wrong today. Nothing to do with the sending off.

Of course it changed the course of the game. That's exactly what sending offs do.




GGTTH

Heisenberg
17-09-2016, 09:43 PM
I don't think there's any chance we would've lost that game had Bartley remained on the pitch. Fair enough it's not a good performance but Ayr don't score those goals if we have all 11 on the park. There's no doubt that's where the game switched.

Lennon/the players should've reacted way better to going down to ten men though. The lack of a tactical switch after the sending off baffles me.

Pete
17-09-2016, 10:05 PM
People saying we still would have lost if Bartley had stayed on and it didn't make a difference.

I've never heard so much tripe in my life :faf:

Booked4Being-Ugly
17-09-2016, 10:40 PM
BedwettersJeez, we lost to a team of part timers in front of over 15k fans and you think that's acceptable?

Phil MaGlass
18-09-2016, 05:29 AM
Were difficult to beat, we were a man down, we were going to lose a game some time, we have to beat QoS, that will be the acid test. I think we will beat them. Once we get our shooting boots on and score more frequently, no problem, winter will soon be upon us, and I think, we have a strong team, especially in reserve to come in for injuries and tired legs.
No need to panic yet.

Edson Arantes
18-09-2016, 11:56 AM
Jeez, we lost to a team of part timers in front of over 15k fans and you think that's acceptable?

Agreed. It's hardly bed wetting.

We should be whipping these types of teams week in week out.

Hibee Mac
18-09-2016, 12:31 PM
I could see them still equalising had we kept 11 players on the park. Their second however was only due to us having 10 men.

weecounty hibby
18-09-2016, 04:53 PM
I didn't think they looked like scoring at any point until the sending off. We weren't playing particularly well but we would have had more than enough to see the game it with eleven men

greenlex
18-09-2016, 05:38 PM
Massive game next week. Qos are playing well. We've still to beat a team in the top half of this league

Not true. We've beaten Falkirk part of the reason the rest are not up there is because we've beaten them as were only 6 games in!!!!

Salt N Sauzee
18-09-2016, 07:49 PM
Jeez, we lost to a team of part timers in front of over 15k fans and you think that's acceptable?

Wouldn't say it was acceptable but no need for everyone to panic. It's only one loss. We'll be back and we will reclaim top spot next week.

majorhibs
18-09-2016, 08:48 PM
Wouldn't say it was acceptable but no need for everyone to panic. It's only one loss. We'll be back and we will reclaim top spot next week.

Ach ye forgot the "then we will skoosh the league" bit! Many promotions of Hibs you seen? Ive witnessed a couple, & those times, the people I could not listen to & therefore avoided, were the skooshers. Zoomers mair like for me. Promotions are bloody hard earned bloody tough fights that need everyone together, & no firing up opposition wi unbeaten & skooshing type drivel.

Captain Trips
18-09-2016, 08:52 PM
Neil Lennon is allowed these performances every manager has them and it will not be last, Stubbs having a few last season has FA to do with Neil.

Salt N Sauzee
18-09-2016, 09:19 PM
Ach ye forgot the "then we will skoosh the league" bit! Many promotions of Hibs you seen? Ive witnessed a couple, & those times, the people I could not listen to & therefore avoided, were the skooshers. Zoomers mair like for me. Promotions are bloody hard earned bloody tough fights that need everyone together, & no firing up opposition wi unbeaten & skooshing type drivel.

Never forgot that "bit" as that's not what i'm saying. Folk just need to calm down, first league defeat of the season and everyone's panicking. We had an off day, that happens in football. Given it's a tough league to get out of but I have confidence in Lennon and our players and believe we'll respond to this well next Saturday and get a win, is that alright with you? Change they bed sheets! 😀

majorhibs
18-09-2016, 09:34 PM
Never forgot that "bit" as that's not what i'm saying. Folk just need to calm down, first league defeat of the season and everyone's panicking. We had an off day, that happens in football. Given it's a tough league to get out of but I have confidence in Lennon and our players and believe we'll respond to this well next Saturday and get a win, is that alright with you? Change they bed sheets! 😀

Change the record. Friday it was season unbeaten. Heids oot the cloroform, please, one game at a time, nae winding up opposition next week like we will win next week/skoosh etc, not alright wi me friday wi season unbeaten heid in sky nonsense, week to week & nae blethering about this that victories aforehand, when points on the board & promoted get boastful. I get scunnered by any Hibs defeats, but doesnae help to remember some fellow supporters big boasts immediately before. After for me, before wi the big heids? Others for that imo.

emerald green
18-09-2016, 09:44 PM
Wouldn't say it was acceptable but no need for everyone to panic. It's only one loss. We'll be back and we will reclaim top spot next week.

It's not only one loss (unless you don't consider the League Cup and a European tie important). Hibs have already lost three times at ER this season, albeit only one league game.

The common denominator in each of those three losses is that the defeats were self inflicted. IMHO of course.

The goalkeeper chucks one in after 10 seconds against Brondby. Hibs play well, but lose. 0-1.

Leading 1-0 against QOS in the League Cup, and unable to finish them off by not taking sufficient chances created, a late collapse results in a 1-3 scoreline.

Yesterday, against a part time club, a bunch of hammer throwers, well we all know what happened. Again, if Hibs had been winning by say 3 goals when Bartley got himself sent off (he gave the referee the chance to send him off) it wouldn't have mattered. Result 1-2.

That's 6 goals conceded in those 3 losses. All at home.

I hope you are right and Hibs will reclaim top spot next week.

Salt N Sauzee
18-09-2016, 09:47 PM
Change the record. Friday it was season unbeaten. Heids oot the cloroform, please, one game at a time, nae winding up opposition next week like we will win next week/skoosh etc, not alright wi me friday wi season unbeaten heid in sky nonsense, week to week & nae blethering about this that victories aforehand, when points on the board & promoted get boastful. I get scunnered by any Hibs defeats, but doesnae help to remember some fellow supporters big boasts immediately before. After for me, before wi the big heids? Others for that imo.

Don't think having confidence in our team is boastful at all. Again I haven't said we're skooshing anything, I don't see the problem in believing our team will respond well to a bad result?

monktonharp
18-09-2016, 10:12 PM
This is Neil Lennon's side I don't think it's fair to be comparing it to Stubbs' side.It's virtually the same side in the same league, yet some seemed a few weeks back that we will win it in a canter. there are a lot of twists and turns to get through and yet, I do believe that we will be there at the end of the day. D.Utd and by the looks of the early form, could be Q of the S,that we will eventually have to battle with. we had done enough in 45 mins to beat Ayr, convincingly but did not put the ball in the net. we somehow managed to get beat, by a couple of really poor goals. the carry on,between Hanlon and the goalie led to a silly corner, but let's be serious. we should have taken care of that mix up and cleared it. going down to 10 men did not help, but we should have had them tucked up by then.