John collins....what a merchant banker!!

[Halifaxhibby]

One word. Tosser!!!

[matty_f]

Thought he came over alright there. We don't often get his perspective on what happened.

[tamig]

One word. Tosser!!!

What's he done?

[tamig]

Ah Scotland's Game I guess. Not watching it live tonight.

[Hibee87]

Don't really see what he said wrong. Thought he came over fine

[H18 SFR]

One word. Tosser!!!

Disagree, he is an absolute professional.

His is approach to the job is meticulous. I worked in his company for the briefest of brief times, in that very short time it was clear to see that he is an absolute professional.

[Jones28]

How? He said what happened.

Certain players took it to the board because of a blind lack of ambition. They didn't that this regime was good for them.

[Alex Trager]

Speaking of welts.

This tool.

Everyone else is saying its a good thing. Malpas comes on and says. 'Eh a hink they're spoiled nowadays'

Shocker

[hibee316]

Speaking of welts.

This tool.

Everyone else is saying its a good thing. Malpas comes on and says. 'Eh a hink they're spoiled nowadays'

Shocker

"Ahm no talking aboot ability...."

Quality stuff Mo!

[Newhaven]

Think the OP is fishing with that comment.

Guided us to a 5-1 thrashing of killie to win us a trophy for the first time in 16 years and your having a go at him?

Collins was 100% correct in all he said and time has proven that.

[Santa Cruz]

Referring to the 5 day training camp before the final he said that some players thought that they were in for a stag night :-)

[FitbaFolkKen]

Totally behind Collins, the league cup final was great and it was unfortunate the way it turned out but he obviously had exacting standards.

I always thought he would have ended up managing a bigger team down south or on the continent but it wasn't to be.

[Big_Franck]

I thought he came over OK in his interview there. He seems honest if nothing else. The problem he identified is the problem Scottish football still has in that the bevvy/lad culture ruins the prospects of a huge number of our promising young players. He tried to change that but he was pissing in to the wind.

[hibbytam]

I thought Collins was right, but he didn't have the leadership to pull it off.


Malpas is, and always will be, a toss pot.

[Halifaxhibby]

Guy came in to a team built by mowbray...slagged the players and slagged the club. Third rate club....fletch was a lazy bighead broonie was an arrogant wee nobody...spouting pish about monaco...hate the guy!!

[northstandhibby]

One word. Tosser!!!

Disagree, John Collins was an outstanding young player for the Hibs. Legend winning the league cup as manager too. Still have fond memories of him.








GGTTH

[Golden Bear]

Think the OP is fishing with that comment.

Guided us to a 5-1 thrashing of killie to win us a trophy for the first time in 16 years and your having a go at him?

Collins was 100% correct in all he said and time has proven that.

JC's studious approach to the game is/was not suited to Scottish football's neanderthal culture.

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

Collins is bang on.



And, Warburton's a fanny.

[Big L]

Guy came in to a team built by mowbray...slagged the players and slagged the club. Third rate club....fletch was a lazy bighead broonie was an arrogant wee nobody...spouting pish about monaco...hate the guy!!

I thought we were better under Collins at getting the ball back, we hunted in packs to get it back. I thought we were fitter and what beat him was the scottish payers attitude towards training and diet and also the lack of support from RP. He sold all the players and didn't give JC the cash to replace them.

[Scottie]

Guy came in to a team built by mowbray...slagged the players and slagged the club. Third rate club....fletch was a lazy bighead broonie was an arrogant wee nobody...spouting pish about monaco...hate the guy!!
HATE is a strong word mate and as for being a arrogant wee nobody :rolleyes:

Have you ever met the man ? I guess if you had the chance to talk to him you would find him the complete opposite of your opinion of him.

[mca]

When i Look Back at some Players.. Collins is Like the Nokia 3310 !!!

Old school.. And as Tough as a Six pack :wink:

[The Captain....]

I'll never say a bad word about Collins. Loved watching him as a player at ER and gave me one of my happiest Hibs memories at Hampden that day. I realise he's not everyone's cup of tea but don't know how anyone can call him a tosser..unless they are a Hertz ****.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Alex Trager]

I must say he was ten years before his time at Hibs. This new culture we have is outstanding in comparison. We have looked better each season since relegation: since dumpster and Co walked into the building.

Stevenson mentioned a while back. He used to get laughed at for going to the gym after training. Commenting on the difference now it was stark to say the least. You are looked at funny if you don't go to gym after.

[WWFTWTG]

JC is one of the greatest player I have seen at hibs, won us a cup and tried to improve standards.

[Smartie]

It was never going to be an approach that was accepted by everyone so he needed absolute backing from above - not just transfer funds to get the right players in for his philosophy but time, patience and solid, firm backing through tough times.

Unfortunately he had Rod Petrie as his chairman and he didn't have that support from within. I also wonder whether or not we (the fans) would have had patience with him. We have been known for our impatience.

I still think that he was ahead of the game and whilst it would have been volatile and rocky for a while I think he'd have eventually led us to great things. As I say, he was ahead of the game and I reckon we'd have had a structure similar to what we have now many, many years ahead of our rivals. And with the problems that the likes of Rangers and Hearts have had during that time, we might really have been able to capitalise.

All ifs, buts and maybes. But anyone who refers to a man who came through our ranks, played brilliantly for us, got us a good transfer fee when we badly needed it, played for our country with distinction and won us a trophy in his brief time as manager as a "tosser" needs to have a serious word with themselves.

He seems to ruffle a lot of feathers but I know a few players who came through at the same time as him and they won't hear a bad word said about him. He's not a hated figure as some like to make out. A bit abrasive and naive in his time as Hibs manager maybe but tosser? Nah.

[Golden Bear]

JC is one of the greatest player I have seen at hibs, won us a cup and tried to improve standards.

Totally agree. The thread title is shameful and totally unjustified.

[Speedy]

HATE is a strong word mate and as for being a arrogant wee nobody :rolleyes:

Have you ever met the man ? I guess if you had the chance to talk to him you would find him the complete opposite of your opinion of him.

Think he's saying that was JC's opinion of Brown & Fletcher.

[DH1875]

One word. Tosser!!!

Behave, came across quite well in my opinion.

[stoneyburn hibs]

One word. Tosser!!!

Deary me, if you ever get the chance to meet him you'd change your mind as he is a gent.
I'm biased though, my favourite Hibs player of all time.

[Marco G]

Totally agree. The thread title is shameful and totally unjustified.
Spot on. Think OP is at the wind up. LCF was a great day out and you could see what it meant to JC.

[Pete]

That sunshine on Leith at the end of the League cup final.

Thanks John.

[bawheid]

Scottish football needs more guys like John Collins and less guys like Maurice Malpas.

Agree that the thread title's shameful.

[Stevie Reid]

Shocking thread title. JC is a Hibs legend and still in the top 3 players I've seen play for Hibs - he was 21 when he left.

One of the few men ever to live who has taken Hibs to a major trophy and no one has done in more style. His time at Hibs was a huge success by any measurable means, and the player revolt involved players who by and large have ended up as nobodies in the game.

If you don't want to learn from someone who achieved as much in football as Collins did, you should give up. If you decide to revolt shortly after your manager's methods have seen you win your first medal in football - and shortly before playing the worst team in the league to get to another major final in the same season - you need your head read.

Every single player involved in that debacle should hang their heads in shame.

[Gerard]

He was a successful player and won the LC as a manager. I agree with his views on our game and think he has a part to play in football. He is a winner.

[stoneyburn hibs]

Shocking thread title. JC is a Hibs legend and still in the top 3 players I've seen play for Hibs - he was 21 when he left.

One of the few men ever to live who has taken Hibs to a major trophy and no one has done in more style. His time at Hibs was a huge success by any measurable means, and the player revolt involved players who by and large have ended up as nobodies in the game.

If you don't want to learn from someone who achieved as much in football as Collins did, you should give up. If you decide to revolt shortly after your manager's methods have seen you win your first medal in football - and shortly before playing the worst team in the league to get to another major final in the same season - you need your head read.

Every single player involved in that debacle should hang their heads in shame.

:top marks agree completely.

[JimBHibees]

Shocking thread title. JC is a Hibs legend and still in the top 3 players I've seen play for Hibs - he was 21 when he left.

One of the few men ever to live who has taken Hibs to a major trophy and no one has done in more style. His time at Hibs was a huge success by any measurable means, and the player revolt involved players who by and large have ended up as nobodies in the game.

If you don't want to learn from someone who achieved as much in football as Collins did, you should give up. If you decide to revolt shortly after your manager's methods have seen you win your first medal in football - and shortly before playing the worst team in the league to get to another major final in the same season - you need your head read.

Every single player involved in that debacle should hang their heads in shame.

Totally agree. Time when you may question your bosses motives a few weeks after achieving for most was the only medal of their career and a couple of weeks before coming legends was a shocker. Whatever happened that story should never have got out.

[The Green Goblin]

I must say he was ten years before his time at Hibs. This new culture we have is outstanding in comparison. We have looked better each season since relegation: since dumpster and Co walked into the building.

Stevenson mentioned a while back. He used to get laughed at for going to the gym after training. Commenting on the difference now it was stark to say the least. You are looked at funny if you don't go to gym after.

Whit? :LOL:

[hibsbollah]

We had a real chance to become something special under Collins. In the end, we listened to the bleating moaning primadonnas in the squad and that failure defined us for the next ten years.

[GreenLake]

One word. Tosser!!!

Deja Vu?

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?311683-Andy-Murray

[JimBHibees]

Deja Vu?

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?311683-Andy-Murray

Yep boy has yamkokitis. Probably his favourite hearts player of the time. :greengrin

[jacomo]

I thought Collins was right, but he didn't have the leadership to pull it off.


Malpas is, and always will be, a toss pot.

This is a fair comment.

The OP is being a p****.

John Collins achieved more for Hibs than most.

[Tamhere1875]

Never heard him bringing down the club the guy had the right idea but as has been proven time and time again the players are not up to it, being totally professional and doing the job they get well paid to do. I wonder if any of the players under Lennon will go running to Rod complaining about double sessions.

[SRHibs]

When i Look Back at some Players.. Collins is Like the Nokia 3310 !!!

Old school.. And as Tough as a Six pack :wink:

And his head is the same shape? :wink:

[jacomo]

One word. Tosser!!!

With this and your seeming hatred of Andy Murray, you come across as bitter and small-minded.

Ever thought of supporting Hearts?

[Frazerbob]

And his head is the same shape? :wink:

Shan Jamboesque patter.

[worcesterhibby]

Guy came in to a team built by mowbray...slagged the players and slagged the club. Third rate club....fletch was a lazy bighead broonie was an arrogant wee nobody...spouting pish about monaco...hate the guy!!

More anti-hibs bile from the man that hates sportsmen who take their lifestyle seriously and want to make themselves the best they can be...similar to your moronic slagging of Andy Murray. Keep your "chip on the shoulder Yorkshire rubbish" to yourself and stop slagging Hibs legends

what are you really a jumbo or a hun ?

[jacomo]

We had a real chance to become something special under Collins. In the end, we listened to the bleating moaning primadonnas in the squad and that failure defined us for the next ten years.

Yep, opening of East Mains supposed to be the start of a new era for us, but instead we endured years of drift and decline.

[Tamhere1875]

Never heard him bringing down the club the guy had the right idea but as has been proven time and time again the players are not up to it, being totally professional and doing the job they get well paid to do

[SRHibs]

Shan Jamboesque patter.

Just a bad joke, eh.

[MartinfaePorty]

It was noticeable the narrator had to mention his sacking, as if Collins had badmouthed the club or spouted some sour grapes they would surely have broadcast it.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[Suburban Hibby]

I thought we were better under Collins at getting the ball back, we hunted in packs to get it back. I thought we were fitter and what beat him was the scottish payers attitude towards training and diet and also the lack of support from RP. He sold all the players and didn't give JC the cash to replace them.

Totally agree- I am 46- sawCollins as a player and never seen a fitter Hibs team- great ethos but a piss poor eye for a signing!

Thought he came over as an honest man who regrets the way it worked out at Hibs- do think he threw the towel in too quickly- that disappointment still sits with me.

[Ergye]

One word. Tosser!!!

If we wanted any advice from you mate, it'd be about mortgages.

[Edson Arantes]

He's actually alright.

For an ex Celtic player :cb

[stantonhibby]

One word. Tosser!!!

I admire your self awareness

[Topographic Hibby]

Never mind JC, the bigger news from the programme is that the FOH ownership model shows that they are getting their hands on nowt!!

Mrs B getting her money back and keeping control of 51%.

...and our model is WE are getting the majority control. We can't even agree on the acceptable terminology for a corner shop!!!!

[greenlex]

Guy came in to a team built by mowbray...slagged the players and slagged the club. Third rate club....fletch was a lazy bighead broonie was an arrogant wee nobody...spouting pish about monaco...hate the guy!!

Perspectives eh? Took Mowbrays team and made them winners.

[Ergye]

Close this thread immediately. :not worth

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp49/Chuckie1977/johncollins_zpsw0rbvlmk.jpg (http://s396.photobucket.com/user/Chuckie1977/media/johncollins_zpsw0rbvlmk.jpg.html)

[Andy74]

We had a real chance to become something special under Collins. In the end, we listened to the bleating moaning primadonnas in the squad and that failure defined us for the next ten years.

That's not really true though. The club backed Collins and the players backed down. We failed because Collins signed poor players and he was pretty unrealistic when listing players he would really have liked to sign.

[Waxy]

And his head is the same shape? :wink:

Making daft jokes about the shape of peoples heads? Peabrain.

[Edson Arantes]

Close this thread immediately. :not worth

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp49/Chuckie1977/johncollins_zpsw0rbvlmk.jpg (http://s396.photobucket.com/user/Chuckie1977/media/johncollins_zpsw0rbvlmk.jpg.html)

And?

[Edson Arantes]

Making daft jokes about the shape of peoples heads? Peabrain.

To be fair mate - he's got a point.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

No doubt that his ideas are the right ones but for the full picture you need to have the ability to implement them and those are management skills that he didn't have then and to be fair he doesn't seem to have now. Never get the impression that his ideas are overly inclusive and perhaps where Bootcher and Malpas told players to their face that they were no good perhaps Collins just made them feel like that.

[Waxy]

To be fair mate - he's got a point.

Yes he has and i'm joking.

[Fritz]

Can't argue with anything he said tonight, and he was a top quality player for us. As manager he deserves a lot of credit for the League Cup win and some great football, including one of the best performances I've ever seen from a Hibs team, away to Motherwell. But let's not get too carried away. He inherited a very good side and signed some absolute dross. And whilst he may have had the right ideas about fitness, standards etc he has to take a lot of the responsibility for not getting those ideas across and alienating the players. Unfortunately man management was not his strong point.

[jacomo]

That's not really true though. The club backed Collins and the players backed down. We failed because Collins signed poor players and he was pretty unrealistic when listing players he would really have liked to sign.

If Collins was manager now, he'd want players like mcgeouch and McGinn. The club was badly run back then, no question about it. It took Leeann coming in to put a proper structure in place to back the manager.

Although, to be fair, I'm not sure how he copes with gallus characters like Leigh and Jason.

[Ergye]

And?

And John Collins is a Hibs legend.

The guy was able to time a slide tackle so perfectly, he'd be on the ground and up and away with the ball glued to his feet before the opposition even knew what was happening, and his distribution was perfect. Poetry in motion. :aok:

[hibsbollah]

That's not really true though. The club backed Collins and the players backed down. We failed because Collins signed poor players and he was pretty unrealistic when listing players he would really have liked to sign.

You are still very bitter about Alan O'Brien though, even after all these years. So perhaps you aren't well equipped to judge :agree:

[Edinburgher]

Firmly believe that the players should have won the Scottish cup that year too or at least reached the final- they were absolutely abysmal against a bottom of the table Dunfermline in the semis.

[Itsnoteasy]

One word. Tosser!!!

Lost the vote on this won dafty.

[Billy Whizz]

Firmly believe that the players should have won the Scottish cup that year too or at least reached the final- they were absolutely abysmal against a bottom of the table Dunfermline in the semis.

Me too, so pissed off. Could have done the Cup double , if it wasn't for infighting

[Thecat23]

He had a vision that was prob the way forward but it was done all wrong. His man management was very poor! If he could have those skills and work with how he wanted he could have gone on to great thinks imo.

Sadly his own ego got the better of him. I have to admit his signings were very dodgy as well.

But when all is said he won Hibs the league cup in some style so fair play to the man.

[zlatan]

You are still very bitter about Alan O'Brien though, even after all these years. So perhaps you aren't well equipped to judge :agree:

I'm still bitter about O'Brien, Gatheussi, Noubissie, Brian Kerrl and Mikel Antoin Curler :greengrin

Everything up to that cup final was great. Everything after wasn't and he packed up his toys and ran away at the right time for both imo.

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

I'm still bitter about O'Brien, Gatheussi, Noubissie, Brian Kerrl and Mikel Antoin Curler :greengrin

Everything up to that cup final was great. Everything after wasn't and he packed up his toys and ran away at the right time for both imo.

Big MAC was under-rated

[Capt Mainwaring]

JC was a great player, Cup winning manager and wanted the players to be the fittest thet could be to be better professionals - what's not to like.

[jacomo]

Firmly believe that the players should have won the Scottish cup that year too or at least reached the final- they were absolutely abysmal against a bottom of the table Dunfermline in the semis.

:agree:

[jacomo]

Big MAC was under-rated


:agree:

[Galahibby]

Anybody who's had the career he has and still says that our LC win was "the most special moment in my career" is awright by me. The players were *****bags for what they did (in my opinion!) and if they'd had half his attitude could have achieved so much more than they did. Glad to see the majority of replies disagreeing with the OP.

[J-C]

Can't be arsed reading the whole thread but Collins is/was an ultimate pro, he attempted to get the players off the booze and crap food habits and make them better pro's and players with one or two no happy they had to train harder and eat less *****. I believe the younger players in the squad at that time loved his outlook with Stevenson one of them, funnily enough he's probably the most professional player we've had at ER in the last 10 years.

Collins was a great pro but not the best at man management, just a pity he threw his toys out of the pram when he didn't get his own way with Petrie, he would thrive under our new regime with LD and Craig.

[Babyshamble]

John Collins was one of my heroes growing up.i started watching hibs home & away every week around that time.he was a model pro.a credit to Scottish football.thought he came across really well in all the Scotland's game programmes.I have nothing but praise for him.under his leadership,we destroyed killie that day.he is one of the few managers I've witnessed that helped win our team a cup. That's good enough for me.

[SteveHFC]

His tactics won us the league cup and give me one of the best days of my life. Guy's a legend.

[Flanny boy]

Collins is bang on.



And, Warburton's a fanny.

And wears a fannys hat

[Keith_M]

Collins was the right man for Hibs in so many ways but probably arrived at the wrong time.

He didn't get enough backing from the club, financially or otherwise, and he also lacked a lot of what people call 'soft skills', i.e. how to manage the individual players properly.

It was a clash of cultures but the culture among the players at Hibs was completely wrong, and I'm happy that's finally changed.

[500miles]

Couldn't last at Hibs, in Belgium or at Celtic. I doubt it was everyone else's fault.

[blackpoolhibs]

He can have the best intentions and tactical awareness in the world, but if you don't have the ability to get it across in the right way, well we know the rest.

Gave us at the time our best day as a Hibs fan for many, but when asked to recruit his players he failed miserably.

A cup winning manager and also a great player for us, it could have been so much better in my opinion if he had handled the situation at the time better.

He might have been the first manager since 1902 to win that cup, he had the team.

[The_Horde]

John Collins was one of my heroes growing up.i started watching hibs home & away every week around that time.he was a model pro.a credit to Scottish football.thought he came across really well in all the Scotland's game programmes.I have nothing but praise for him.under his leadership,we destroyed killie that day.he is one of the few managers I've witnessed that helped win our team a cup. That's good enough for me.

I remember speaking to someone involved at the club at the time and Lewis, McCann and Andy McNeil were always in the gym after training. Others joined now and then but they were stalwarts and clearly believed what Collins was preaching.

[The Falcon]

It was noticeable the narrator had to mention his sacking, as if Collins had badmouthed the club or spouted some sour grapes they would surely have broadcast it.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Not seen the programme but if the narrator did say this then that is totally wrong. Collins left of hs own accord.

Scottish football was not ready for Collin's ideas while the players at the time were, generally, not prepared to make the sacrifices that Collins took for granted and I think that this frustrated Collins more than anything else.

FWIW I think Collins was given much more support at ER than Paul Le Guen was at Rangers.

[matty_f]

He can have the best intentions and tactical awareness in the world, but if you don't have the ability to get it across in the right way, well we know the rest.

Gave us at the time our best day as a Hibs fan for many, but when asked to recruit his players he failed miserably.

A cup winning manager and also a great player for us, it could have been so much better in my opinion if he had handled the situation at the time better.

He might have been the first manager since 1902 to win that cup, he had the team.

Very well put. :agree:

[MartinfaePorty]

Sorry, Falcon, meant his resignation, so my error not the BBC (for once!).

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[Salt N Sauzee]

Brought us our first cup in 16 years and got stabbed in the back by his own players who didn't respect him or his training regime.

Aye, a tosser right enough :rolleyes:

[capitals_finest]

One word. Tosser!!!

Disrespectful.

[Betty Boop]

Shameful thread title.

[scooby]

He can have the best intentions and tactical awareness in the world, but if you don't have the ability to get it across in the right way, well we know the rest.

Gave us at the time our best day as a Hibs fan for many, but when asked to recruit his players he failed miserably.

A cup winning manager and also a great player for us, it could have been so much better in my opinion if he had handled the situation at the time better.

He might have been the first manager since 1902 to win that cup, he had the team.

Agree we could have won both cups in 2007 had it not been for our revolting players, a big opportunity missed.
His philosophy on the game was spot on, but he was dragging the squad kicking and screaming behind him.
No need for the thread title, the guy is an absolute professional.

[Tollhouse Hibee]

I must say he was ten years before his time at Hibs. This new culture we have is outstanding in comparison. We have looked better each season since relegation: since dumpster and Co walked into the building.

Stevenson mentioned a while back. He used to get laughed at for going to the gym after training. Commenting on the difference now it was stark to say the least. You are looked at funny if you don't go to gym after.

Funnily enough that part in time was probably the best Stevenson actually had in his career up until the last 3 seasons or so - where a similar attitude seems to be prevailing to training etc. Collins was right.

[Alex Trager]

Whit? :LOL:

hahaha Christ! That is auto correct for you!

[lyonhibs]

OP is having a 'mare.

"Won it with Mowbray's team" :rotflmao: One of my perennial favourites that one.

Clashed against the "Pie and chips, then a wee round of golf" culture of some of the players, but still probably in my top 3 Hibs managers during my lifetime. Watching us ***** all over Old Rangers in a genuine 1-0 thrashing at Ibrox is one of my favourite away day memories.

As mentioned elsewhere, the only player still around from his time here is one of the few to match his dedication and professionalism, if not quite ability, the double cup winning legend that is Lewis Stevenson.

[Stevie Reid]

I don't think anything has ever angered me more regarding Hibs than when Simon Brown came out in the papers and said that Hibs training trip in Spain was like a prison camp. It would have been bad enough coming from a decent player, never mind one whose time at Hibs was poor, and defined by three shocking errors against Hearts and Rangers. Even had we lost that cup his complaints would have been ridiculous, but after the camp we go and win a major final 5-1 with an astonishing display and you still complain? Unbelievable.

Losers like Brown don't/didn't realise the opportunities they had. Being paid a lot of money to play football is privilege enough - yet you then baulk at the idea of learning methods from someone who has played at the highest level (and I think at the time was in Scotland's all time ten most capped players and scorers), and whose style has seen you involved in winning a major final, with a great chance of winning another? All whilst being paid to train in a luxury environment?

Disgraceful behaviour from a so-called "professional".

[Enough said]

One word. Tosser!!! disagree. Great professional!!

[Pretty Boy]

I always think the truth with Collins lies somewhere in the middle.

He inherited a good team, maybe added a wee something Mowbray couldn't and won us a trophy and saw that team produce some great performances. The rebellion was unfortunate and poor from the players involved but I always think the argument that Petrie backed the players is flawed. He had a duty to meet the players, after that Collins stayed and several players were shipped out.

That's where the problems started for Collins. We had a poor end to that season, it was only Hearts really poor form that stopped people really noticing. We started the next season well but when it started to go badly it never really stopped. Collins signed players who seemed to fit his ideology about fitness but technically a fair few of them were really lacking. There was plenty grumbling about Collins going on long before he walked, it seems after he left the rose tinted specs went on.

Collins had/has a lot of good ideas about the game and I reckon he would be invaluable in certain positions at bringing about change in Scottish football and forcing his beliefs through using sheer determination. Does he have the skills to be a top manager or head coach? Not imo.

[Peevemor]

I always think the truth with Collins lies somewhere in the middle.

He inherited a good team, maybe added a wee something Mowbray couldn't and won us a trophy and saw that team produce some great performances. The rebellion was unfortunate and poor from the players involved but I always think the argument that Petrie backed the players is flawed. He had a duty to meet the players, after that Collins stayed and several players were shipped out.

That's where the problems started for Collins. We had a poor end to that season, it was only Hearts really poor form that stopped people really noticing. We started the next season well but when it started to go badly it never really stopped. Collins signed players who seemed to fit his ideology about fitness but technically a fair few of them were really lacking. There was plenty grumbling about Collins going on long before he walked, it seems after he left the rose tinted specs went on.

Collins had/has a lot of good ideas about the game and I reckon he would be invaluable in certain positions at bringing about change in Scottish football and forcing his beliefs through using sheer determination. Does he have the skills to be a top manager or head coach? Not imo.

Agree 100% :agree:

[jacomo]

I don't think anything has ever angered me more regarding Hibs than when Simon Brown came out in the papers and said that Hibs training trip in Spain was like a prison camp. It would have been bad enough coming from a decent player, never mind one whose time at Hibs was poor, and defined by three shocking errors against Hearts and Rangers. Even had we lost that cup his complaints would have been ridiculous, but after the camp we go and win a major final 5-1 with an astonishing display and you still complain? Unbelievable.

Losers like Brown don't/didn't realise the opportunities they had. Being paid a lot of money to play football is privilege enough - yet you then baulk at the idea of learning methods from someone who has played at the highest level (and I think at the time was in Scotland's all time ten most capped players and scorers), and whose style has seen you involved in winning a major final, with a great chance of winning another? All whilst being paid to train in a luxury environment?

Disgraceful behaviour from a so-called "professional".

In all my time watching Hibs, this guy is probably my most disliked player.

We've had plenty of players who weren't very good, we've had mercenaries and we've had roasters, but SB was a waster who should have been nowhere near a professional sports club.

[Gatecrasher]

I always think the truth with Collins lies somewhere in the middle.

He inherited a good team, maybe added a wee something Mowbray couldn't and won us a trophy and saw that team produce some great performances. The rebellion was unfortunate and poor from the players involved but I always think the argument that Petrie backed the players is flawed. He had a duty to meet the players, after that Collins stayed and several players were shipped out.

That's where the problems started for Collins. We had a poor end to that season, it was only Hearts really poor form that stopped people really noticing. We started the next season well but when it started to go badly it never really stopped. Collins signed players who seemed to fit his ideology about fitness but technically a fair few of them were really lacking. There was plenty grumbling about Collins going on long before he walked, it seems after he left the rose tinted specs went on.

Collins had/has a lot of good ideas about the game and I reckon he would be invaluable in certain positions at bringing about change in Scottish football and forcing his beliefs through using sheer determination. Does he have the skills to be a top manager or head coach? Not imo.
That's a pretty fair assessment IMO.

[jacomo]

I always think the truth with Collins lies somewhere in the middle.

Fair enough. Personally I was bitterly disappointed when he left, but I appreciate there are divided opinions.

However, there is no doubt about the truth regarding the OP. Personal criticism of a man who played for the club with distinction, won us a cup as manager, and remains a Hibby, is unwarranted.

It reveals more about the poster's own failings than anything else.

[Baader]

Perplexed at some of the folk that can't wait to get the boots stuck in to guys who have done a job for Hibs (an understatement regarding Collins) and have feelings for the club.

Save the scorn for those who actively dislike our club and wish it ill. There are plenty of them.

[allezsauzee]

JC is a legend. That is all.

[Pretty Boy]

Fair enough. Personally I was bitterly disappointed when he left, but I appreciate there are divided opinions.

However, there is no doubt about the truth regarding the OP. Personal criticism of a man who played for the club with distinction, won us a cup as manager, and remains a Hibby, is unwarranted.

It reveals more about the poster's own failings than anything else.

Agree with that.

I can see, based on TV appearances etc, why people may find Collins hard to work with but I would struggle to call a guy who gave me one of my best football supporting days childish names.

[Tamhere1875]

Looks like Lennon's put his foot down now to banning phones from the training centre I wonder if players will go running to rod about not being happy with this ?

[Peevemor]

Looks like Lennon's put his foot down now to banning phones from the training centre I wonder if players will go running to rod about not being happy with this ?

In any walk of life, people will take directives/orders from different people in different ways.

[BullsCloseHibs]

Speaking of welts.

This tool.

Everyone else is saying its a good thing. Malpas comes on and says. 'Eh a hink they're spoiled nowadays'

Shocker


Knowing Malpas, it'll be 'spoiled' now cause we wear shin pads and not socks down to ankles! (who needs intact shins anyway?) :shocked:

[bigwheel]

Perplexed at some of the folk that can't wait to get the boots stuck in to guys who have done a job for Hibs (an understatement regarding Collins) and have feelings for the club.

Save the scorn for those who actively dislike our club and wish it ill. There are plenty of them.

Fully agree with this - can't understand any dislike for Collins around his times at Hibs - great professional , cup winning manager ...

[WeeRussell]

While Collins isn't one of my 'Hibs Heroes' it is strange how many Hibs fans have such a low opinion him, especially given that he delivered what would be the first major trophy for a great number of us as Hibs fans!

How many people who throw the old "Mowbray's team" argument take great delight in saying that Lennon is doing what Stubbs never and will sing his praises at the end of the season should we go up as expected... has he not inherited Stubbs' team by the same logic? Did Collins not do what Mowbray couldn't?

I expect by the end of this season I'll be happy with all 3 Managers and what they did for Hibs :flag:

[brog]

That's not really true though. The club backed Collins and the players backed down. We failed because Collins signed poor players and he was pretty unrealistic when listing players he would really have liked to sign.

I've posted it before but the only thing wrong with JC's signings was that he actually backed Tommy Craig's judgement, remember JC had been out of football for a few years before taking over at ER. AOB was a full Irish international, Brian Kerr was a Scotland U-21 cap & both played with TC at Newcastle. Who told me this? The player who was meant to be the 3rd TC signing, another ex Newcastle player who at the time was at a London club currently in the EPL. Unfortunately our offer was well below what #3 was looking for. I say unfortunately but the player in question didn't do too much after that. Strangely though, the player he was with that day was interested in joining us but we had strength in his position. That player has had an admirable career, mostly in English Championship & is still playing in that league. The point is that AOB & BK were our marquee signings & took up a large % of our budget. JC was then reduced to picking up free transfers & players from public trials!
Regardless of the above the OP I believe is trolling & seems to have an unhealthy dislike of successful Scottish sportsmen.

[JimBHibees]

I've posted it before but the only thing wrong with JC's signings was that he actually backed Tommy Craig's judgement, remember JC had been out of football for a few years before taking over at ER. AOB was a full Irish international, Brian Kerr was a Scotland U-21 cap & both played with TC at Newcastle. Who told me this? The player who was meant to be the 3rd TC signing, another ex Newcastle player who at the time was at a London club currently in the EPL. Unfortunately our offer was well below what #3 was looking for. I say unfortunately but the player in question didn't do too much after that. Strangely though, the player he was with that day was interested in joining us but we had strength in his position. That player has had an admirable career, mostly in English Championship & is still playing in that league. The point is that AOB & BK were our marquee signings & took up a large % of our budget. JC was then reduced to picking up free transfers & players from public trials!
Regardless of the above the OP I believe is trolling & seems to have an unhealthy dislike of successful Scottish sportsmen.

Makalamby also quite simply wow.

[Baader]

Regardless of the above the OP I believe is trolling & seems to have an unhealthy dislike of successful Scottish sportsmen.

His bizarre dislike of the Murrays I seem to recall... Disliking for successful Hibbys too.

[Iain G]

One word. Tosser!!!

Having just watched the programme in question I simply cannot fathom how anybody, especially a Hibs supporter, could come to that conclusion about what JC talks about during the programme, its baffling and makes no sense. :confused:

[ChicoM1875]

I thought, and still think Collins had the right ideas about training, diet etc. It made sense. However, my opinion was his man management was poor, and if he had someone better than Tommy Craig in place to back him up on man management, he might not have resigned. His signings were also mostly terrible. If we had the structure then that we have now, he probably would have thrived. Unfortunately we didn't. I still think the timing of his resignation was very poor and was the start of our decline.

[matty_f]

I think Collins needed a better backroom team behind him, like the set-up at the club just now. He wasn't good enough to find players at the level we needed on the budget we had. If he had Mowbray's eye for a player, for instance, or McLeish's contacts, he would have done better.

He was never going to be able to keep that squad of players together, and I still think he was unrealistic in his expectations of how much money he would be able to spend. What he did have, he wasted.

I think Collins just wanted to get to his destination quickly, he should have looked at the club and realised that he needed to consolidate before he could build, and that it would take time.

IMHO, most of us would have loved to have seen the club go up a level in how the training and culture were handled, who knows what the club would have been like if the team had bought into it at the level Collins wanted.

[Evergreen86]

Maurice Malpas should be the one getting pelters here. An absolute dinosaur who was a part of the one of worst management teams we have ever had. JC won the league cup. End of.

[21.05.2016]

Looks like Lennon's put his foot down now to banning phones from the training centre I wonder if players will go running to rod about not being happy with this ?

Don't see a problem with this. They're there to work, i'm sure twitter etc can wait for a few hours while the training session is in progress. East mains might be a luxurious facility but its a place of work, not a holiday camp.

I remember an interview with Stevenson last year I think who was saying how he used to stay behind after training a few years back on his own to put in some extra hours at the gym etc and he used to get slagged for it by his team mates. Sums up the mentality of some of the teams we've had in the past, work shy and lazy. Footballers these days don't realise sometimes how good they've got it.

[jacomo]

Makalamby also quite simply wow.

I loved big Maka.

I expressed this view at a game once. Guy in front of me turned round to ask if I was serious, and soon it felt like about 1/4 of the East Stand was laughing about it.

Never had success in starting a new chant, so I feel weirdly proud of this moment!

[Deansy]

Collins was right - the players were wrong.

[hibeerealist]

Spot on Smartie and dare I say it, the vast majority of Hibs' fans agree with you!






It was never going to be an approach that was accepted by everyone so he needed absolute backing from above - not just transfer funds to get the right players in for his philosophy but time, patience and solid, firm backing through tough times.

Unfortunately he had Rod Petrie as his chairman and he didn't have that support from within. I also wonder whether or not we (the fans) would have had patience with him. We have been known for our impatience.

I still think that he was ahead of the game and whilst it would have been volatile and rocky for a while I think he'd have eventually led us to great things. As I say, he was ahead of the game and I reckon we'd have had a structure similar to what we have now many, many years ahead of our rivals. And with the problems that the likes of Rangers and Hearts have had during that time, we might really have been able to capitalise.

All ifs, buts and maybes. But anyone who refers to a man who came through our ranks, played brilliantly for us, got us a good transfer fee when we badly needed it, played for our country with distinction and won us a trophy in his brief time as manager as a "tosser" needs to have a serious word with themselves.

He seems to ruffle a lot of feathers but I know a few players who came through at the same time as him and they won't hear a bad word said about him. He's not a hated figure as some like to make out. A bit abrasive and naive in his time as Hibs manager maybe but tosser? Nah.

[Ozyhibby]

Collins would probably be a better Hibs manager now that we have a proper recruitment strategy which means it's no longer the sole responsibility of the manager.
To be honest I think he would be the perfect replacement for Brian Mclair at the SFA.
He was correct in the route he wanted to go down which incidentally is the way Nielson has went at Hearts. They train as often as continental sides and are probably the fittest in Scotland and probably going to finish 2nd this year.
Still wasn't enough to stop us winning the Scottish cup. [emoji3]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JDHibs]

The football in this country is rotten to the core. From junior levels up.

Unfortunately for Collins he tried to change it and he never received the backing he should have to make it work. All he wanted was to make his players the best they could be and push them! The ways he done it may have been flawed but the intentions were good.

Theres a reason why so many of our talented players up here fail down south. They dont have the right attitudes. They end up being content and not determined to push their boundaries.

I spoke with a young player who everyone on here will know of, hes one of the best talents in Scotland at the moment, yet, thats it, he thinks hes made it! He should be pushing on to be the best player in this country then go down south and repeat the process!

End of the day i, like many, respect Collins. He was great for us as a player, our country and came back as manager and won us a cup. No idea why people have no respect for him.

[Vini1875]

Don't get the OP's standpoint as it is not what I heard from JC. As a Hibs though you are left to wonder had the players bought into Collins ideas on fitness and dedication we might have won the SC back in 2007. There have been lots of stories regarding JC and man management, but a lot of those players had the potential to be a lot better than they were. I think given time and back JC would have improved Hibs a great deal. His real weakness was in buying players, but I do not know if that was simply down to budget.

[Nutmegged]

Collins was way ahead of his time in Scotland 10 years ago yet shockingly enough that was still about 15 years behind France, it's only in recent years we have came into thinking about "the 24 hour athlete" and what positive effects that can have.

I don't blame Collins one bit for trying to get Hibs into that way of thinking but it was always going to be hard doing it with already established first team players, what we needed to do IMO was start the U17s on that regime and brain-wash them into believing this was the only way to do things, so that in 2/3/4 years time when they came into the first team they'd come in with that frame of mind and it wouldn't be a culture shock to them, in that time Collins could possibly have made that change to the first team gradually, that being said it'd take a dedicated 3-5 year plan before seeing the fruits of that labour and as we all know Football managers aren't afforded that time these days, particularly since Messageboards were really taking off back on 06/07

[Bishop Hibee]

I always think the truth with Collins lies somewhere in the middle.

He inherited a good team, maybe added a wee something Mowbray couldn't and won us a trophy and saw that team produce some great performances. The rebellion was unfortunate and poor from the players involved but I always think the argument that Petrie backed the players is flawed. He had a duty to meet the players, after that Collins stayed and several players were shipped out.

That's where the problems started for Collins. We had a poor end to that season, it was only Hearts really poor form that stopped people really noticing. We started the next season well but when it started to go badly it never really stopped. Collins signed players who seemed to fit his ideology about fitness but technically a fair few of them were really lacking. There was plenty grumbling about Collins going on long before he walked, it seems after he left the rose tinted specs went on.

Collins had/has a lot of good ideas about the game and I reckon he would be invaluable in certain positions at bringing about change in Scottish football and forcing his beliefs through using sheer determination. Does he have the skills to be a top manager or head coach? Not imo.

Well said. His failure to sign anyone decent was as bad as Mowbray's failure to sign a decent keeper. Got it right tactically in the 5-1 final. The quality of player he had was top notch though. Great player for us and would have been better if Miller hadn't insisted in playing him wide left a lot of the time instead of in the centre of midfield.

Failure in his latest job at Celtc.

[brog]

Makalamby also quite simply wow.

You're correct Jim in that Maka was another TC signing though he had not previously been coached by TC. IIRC he came to TC's attention through a Newcastle reserve game versus Chelsea. Maka had all the physical credentials to be a fine keeper, however he was erratic in the extreme.

[emerald green]

Haven't read this whole thread.

BUT, imagine calling a man a "merchant banker" who once played for Hibs with some distinction; was capped for Scotland several times, and scored the last time Scotland qualified for the World Cup finals in 1998; and is one of the few managers ever to lead this club to a major cup win.

I can think of lots of others who would fit that description before John Collins. :rolleyes:

[NAE NOOKIE]

Collins remains on my Hibs heroes list because he was a cup winning manager. But for those who criticise folk who say he won it with Mowbray's team then for those same folk he must take the blame for failing to take the best Hibs team in 20 years past the mighty bottom of the league Dunfermline Athletic in the Scottish cup semi final just weeks later, which would have given us a shot at the worst Celtic team in years in the final.

My biggest beef with Collins is that no matter what he says he didn't have the man management skills to keep the players on side and as the likes of Butcher and Malpas proved only too well the my way or the highway approach with no compromise just doesn't work in modern day football. Nobody, least of all me, disagrees with Collins assertion that professional footballers should behave in a professional manner and strive and work to be all they can be, but it seems clear to me that he tried to change things too soon and wasn't very good at listening.

The other beef is the reason he gave for leaving the club. I don't care what anybody says, one in a hundred managers make it in the game by being successful with a ready made team and millions to spend from the board, the other 99 get to the top by proving they can take a Sows ear and make it into a silk purse on a shoestring. If Collins had the drive and determination to succeed as a manager the way he did as a player, an attitude he also expected from those players under him, then he may have made it in management. Instead he walked away the minute the financial reality of managing a club like Hibs became evident.

The greats of the game like Alex Ferguson and Brian Clough in their early days made good teams out of youngsters and pros at the arse end of their careers, they didn't throw in the towel the minute the going got tough, which in my opinion is what Collins did, his utter failure to make a dent in management since he left Hibs doesn't exactly disprove my view of him.

Just a wee point in closing. Somebody said he remains a Hibby, no he doesn't, the whole Collins family are and always have been die hard Celtic fans and he probably wet his pants when he heard they were interested in signing him and wet those same pants when he got the assistant managers job.

[ALF TUPPER]

One word. Tosser!!!

Dont agree Halifax.

He gave his account of what happened. Doesn't make him a tosser.

Collins was trying to introduce a winning proven continental style of training and lifestyle to the Club. Players didn't want to buy into it and went behind his back to Rodders. ( RP could have handled it better IMO )

[jacomo]

Collins remains on my Hibs heroes list because he was a cup winning manager. But for those who criticise folk who say he won it with Mowbray's team then for those same folk he must take the blame for failing to take the best Hibs team in 20 years past the mighty bottom of the league Dunfermline Athletic in the Scottish cup semi final just weeks later, which would have given us a shot at the worst Celtic team in years in the final.

My biggest beef with Collins is that no matter what he says he didn't have the man management skills to keep the players on side and as the likes of Butcher and Malpas proved only too well the my way or the highway approach with no compromise just doesn't work in modern day football. Nobody, least of all me, disagrees with Collins assertion that professional footballers should behave in a professional manner and strive and work to be all they can be, but it seems clear to me that he tried to change things too soon and wasn't very good at listening.

The other beef is the reason he gave for leaving the club. I don't care what anybody says, one in a hundred managers make it in the game by being successful with a ready made team and millions to spend from the board, the other 99 get to the top by proving they can take a Sows ear and make it into a silk purse on a shoestring. If Collins had the drive and determination to succeed as a manager the way he did as a player, an attitude he also expected from those players under him, then he may have made it in management. Instead he walked away the minute the financial reality of managing a club like Hibs became evident.

The greats of the game like Alex Ferguson and Brian Clough in their early days made good teams out of youngsters and pros at the arse end of their careers, they didn't throw in the towel the minute the going got tough, which in my opinion is what Collins did, his utter failure to make a dent in management since he left Hibs doesn't exactly disprove my view of him.

Just a wee point in closing. Somebody said he remains a Hibby, no he doesn't, the whole Collins family are and always have been die hard Celtic fans and he probably wet his pants when he heard they were interested in signing him and wet those same pants when he got the assistant managers job.

1. Yes, the season fell apart after the LC win. Specifically due to players revolt. But league cup wins have had that effect on other teams that don't get silverware regularly - Spurs, for example.
2. Don't think anyone denies his weaknesses as a manager. But Hibs was a badly run club back then, as other managers might attest.
3. He clearly has an affection for Hibs, worked hard and has always spoken highly of the club.

[cmcd]

One word. Tosser!!!

Halifax Hibby. Tosser

[Lago]

Some of the language used on here to describe JC is frankly unnecessary & disappointing. A great player for Hibs & a cup winning manager.

[Bay Area Hibees]

Was my hibs hero growing up. Class act.

[Phil MaGlass]

Some shocking posts on here about Collins, basically sums up Scottish fitba, we will forever be stuck in the dark ages and thats why we will never amount to anything, not willing to embrace guys like Collins that could maybe change the game for the better, seems his man management skills come in for a bit of a hammering aswell, and YES I agree 100% that could have been alot better, the club could have acted on this.
One poster has already mentioned this, ´he was way ahead of his time´ IF only we had more of his type around the same time we may have seen Scottish fitba change for the better.
Class act as a fitba player, imagne how much he would be worth nowadays?

[The Green Goblin]

He's actually alright.

For an ex Celtic player :cb


He was an ex-Hibs player before he was an ex-Celtic player. :cb

[CraigHibee]

didn't find anything wrong with what he said, came across well imo

[High-On-Hibs]

JC is a winner. Only losers hate winners.

[HibbySpurs]

The OP is wrong, I've just watched the program and agree with virtually everything JC said.

Main point for me is that too many players still think the world owes them a living and that they just need to turn up and do a wee bit of training then **** off to the golf course or bookies in the afternoon.

They are paid to do a job and compared to most they are very very well paid. Their managers job is to get the very best out of his charges and JC was determined to achieve this by making these poor wee souls work! Sure he made mistakes but the ideas and intentions were sound.

Looking back JC could have delivered so much for Hibs but sadly he was forced out and the club descended into a spiral of decline which ended up in our relegation....

Only now have we began to recover.

JC is and always will be a Hibs legend in my eyes.

GGTTH

[O'Rourke3]

Collins was way ahead of his time in Scotland 10 years ago yet shockingly enough that was still about 15 years behind France, it's only in recent years we have came into thinking about "the 24 hour athlete" and what positive effects that can have.
Unbelievably Sounness tried the same thing at Rangers. When he arrived realised how poor the fitness was and did a "look at my six pack" moment with his squad. His team was very fit that year but as more English "stars" looked for free money and European football being professional wasn't required. I suspect once Walter took over then it was back to the Scottish way. Plenty of stories back then about the team that drinks together wins together during their 9 in a row.
I was gutted when JC left. Looked simple to me. Be fit, eat properly, rest properly and win games late on when needed.

JC Banker? You are having a laugh.

[500miles]

For all the folk stating that his coaching methods we're great, the players didn't feel great. They felt they were getting a pre season in the middle of the year and it was making them slower and less sharp.

He couldn't understand how training like that wasn't productive for someone who wasn't used to it.

[PompeyHibs]

JohnCollins is class. Loved watching him as a player and he gave us a great day out by winning the 2007 cup final.
Defo departed too soon.
I thought he was spot on with his comments the other night regarding the players and our culture in Scotland.
If we had listened to him the years 2008-2015 may not have been so brutal.

Hail Hail

[jacomo]

For all the folk stating that his coaching methods we're great, the players didn't feel great. They felt they were getting a pre season in the middle of the year and it was making them slower and less sharp.

He couldn't understand how training like that wasn't productive for someone who wasn't used to it.

You've just highlighted the attitude problem in Scottish football.

Our game is miles behind the best in Europe. The longer we keep things as they are, the longer we will struggle.

[biotech]

Collins was a great player,but great players seldom make great managers. He inherited a good team but lacked the man management skills required to develop this. As, for his trusty assistant, to the time, least said the better! Overall, a failure as a manager.