Jambo Stand Update - Volume 7 Episode 7:0

[jacomo]

You're right, that is the challenge and of course football fans (including ours) are not renowned for their patience. On the plus side we have in Ann Budge a very able manager and organiser of the club. Many fans would be happy if she was simply the owner (not me). We have a decent team at the moment but we could do with a cup run as effectively we have nearly sold out every league game so not so much additional income coming in.

Not happy?

Time to doff your cap and be grateful, because M'Lady appears to have renegotiated the terms of the FoH supporter ownership movement.

[son of haggart]

Not happy?

Time to doff your cap and be grateful, because M'Lady appears to have renegotiated the terms of the FoH supporter ownership movement.

I'm entirely happy with everything Ann Budge has done. I'm keen on fan ownership as well. So is she.

Some people prefer a private ownership model, I don't.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I'm entirely happy with everything Ann Budge has done. I'm keen on fan ownership as well. So is she.

Some people prefer a private ownership model, I don't.

Pretty sure she said she thinks the fans should only own 25% of the club in a recent interview? Obviously that's a lot more than the current 0% but a long way short of the target.

I've not seen much comment from FOH since the interview though - is the target still fan ownership?

[southern hibby]

She says she wants fan ownership. But realistically does she really????

Let's be honest she's getting an estimated 6% on her loan and no shares changed hands as far as we know from her to fans who have paid in to Direct Debits.
As much as fan ownership is wanted by fans and Budgie (hhhmmm me thinks not wanted by her) what date is this realistically going to happen???
I've no doubt hearts fans are more than happy with Ann's way of doing things as they were with Vlad but let's be honest both have ( in my eyes anyway) mugged you lot off and you seem more than happy for it to happen.

GGTTH

[TrinityHibs]

You provide terrific entertainment I will give you that

do you seriously think they would forget where the visitors sit

every time you come out with a "this can't happen due to bats, nursery, building owned by XYZ, distillery, funding, planning consent, FOH funding etc etc etc you have to move on to the next straw clutching excuse hoping beyond hope that this will fall through

I think you need to understand that the new regime is not in the slightest similar to the Vlad era and accept that we are now a well run club trying to win back trust from the local community and football in general.

I think with things like the museum and memorial garden as well as now keeping up to date with publishing accounts , not paying players what we can't afford etc etc we are getting there

have a look at the museum next time you are snooping round the Wheatfield undercroft(with work ongoing that you said wasn't possible) it really is a fantastic reward for the years of hard work of the volunteer historians(fans) and I am sure you would be impressed.

Bruno I think GG raises some points for discussion. I think you will get a new stand however when looking at the Clydesdale drawings I was wondering if he had forgotten the dug outs and directors box. They will impact on seat numbers which seem low anyway. Heaven help us if the capacity was going to drop further. Also can you confirm if Budge has taken account of the need for a S.75 agreement in her projections for a site start? You will need one to cover the trams contribution. It will get sorted but adds time. Is the new regime going to let a contract without having the money to pay for it? We have been told by your owner that you are 50% short. Reasonable questions I think which you should be asking as opposed to looking at the league cup winners medal in the new museum

[hibs0666]

Is it really true that FoH is funding a large proportion of this development whilst not receiving any shares?

[son of haggart]

Pretty sure she said she thinks the fans should only own 25% of the club in a recent interview? Obviously that's a lot more than the current 0% but a long way short of the target.

I've not seen much comment from FOH since the interview though - is the target still fan ownership?

The target is still 75% (75.1% actually) . Assuming FOH continues to raise approximately £1.5million a year share ownership will transfer in chunks - 20% in June 2017, 15% in June 2018 and the remaining 40.1% when the loan from Ann Budge is paid off, which at the current rate would be around June 2020.

I haven't heard 25% mentioned anywhere but this may refer to the remaining 25% which would be held by individuals such as Budge and people like even me (a miniscule shareholding which like many I didn't sell back when Romanov looked to get over 90% to make it back into a private company).


The 75% holding will be by Foundation of Hearts not individual shareholders

[Danderhall Hibs]

The target is still 75% (75.1% actually) . Assuming FOH continues to raise approximately £1.5million a year share ownership will transfer in chunks - 20% in June 2017, 15% in June 2018 and the remaining 40.1% when the loan from Ann Budge is paid off, which at the current rate would be around June 2020.

I haven't heard 25% mentioned anywhere but this may refer to the remaining 25% which would be held by individuals such as Budge and people like even me (a miniscule shareholding which like many I didn't sell back when Romanov looked to get over 90% to make it back into a private company).


The 75% holding will be by Foundation of Hearts not individual shareholders

Cheers SoH - maybe I got my 75s and 25s the wrong way round.

[Kaff]

I think this is where the percentages get mentioned the other way round but whether its a target of hers or not isnt clear really

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36999758

[Septimus]

Can I subscribe to have a plaque placed where I was standing at the 0-7 game?

[Col2]

Is Vlad's niece not a shareholder still? And does her shares not have an impact on "the famous"??

[son of haggart]

I think this is where the percentages get mentioned the other way round but whether its a target of hers or not isnt clear really

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36999758

Ah - that explains it

She is referring to company law whereby if someone or some group owns more than 75% of the shares they can force through special regulations. So she is not really talking about the FOH patway to ownership, more about how an unscrupulous owner (can't think of any offhand but you never know :wink:) can be blocked if fans have at least 25.1% under their control.

It's summarised here:

75% - you can force through any resolution at a general meeting of the shareholders, including a special resolution. Changes requiring a special resolution include altering the company's articles - the main constitutional document setting out how the company is to be run.

Over 50% - you can force through an ordinary resolution at a general meeting of the shareholders. One crucial power that this gives you is the power to force through an ordinary resolution to appoint or, importantly, dismiss directors (see 8). You therefore have effective control of the management of the company.

Over 25% - you can block any special resolution.

From this site: http://www.lawdonut.co.uk/business/law/ownership-and-management/shares-and-shareholders/ownership-issues-faqs

[son of haggart]

Can I subscribe to have a plaque placed where I was standing at the 0-7 game?



I'm sure something can be arranged for the right price. It will have five rivets on the upper side,one on the lower

[son of haggart]

Is Vlad's niece not a shareholder still? And does her shares not have an impact on "the famous"??

I believe so (or last I heard but that was sometime ago) - she, like me, will be in the 24.9% and therefore her shareholding will entitle her to attend AGMs (I'm sure she would brighten them up!), receive annual reports and have nice certificate for her wall but that's about it.

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk.p.preprod.performgroup.com/javaImages/48/3b/0,,10289~2702152,00.jpg

[Mr White]

I'm sure something can be arranged for the right price. It will have five rivets on the upper side,one on the lower

That'd be a good "07" 2for1 actually. Commemorating both our famous win from 1973 and also our 2007 league cup win over a jambo riddled killie side. Nice suggestion :aok:

[Ozyhibby]

The target is still 75% (75.1% actually) . Assuming FOH continues to raise approximately £1.5million a year share ownership will transfer in chunks - 20% in June 2017, 15% in June 2018 and the remaining 40.1% when the loan from Ann Budge is paid off, which at the current rate would be around June 2020.

I haven't heard 25% mentioned anywhere but this may refer to the remaining 25% which would be held by individuals such as Budge and people like even me (a miniscule shareholding which like many I didn't sell back when Romanov looked to get over 90% to make it back into a private company).


The 75% holding will be by Foundation of Hearts not individual shareholders

Last I heard FoH were bringing in £1.2m a year not £1.5m? Still an impressive amount and will be enough to pay for the new stand within a few years without impact on the team but important to get these figures correct.


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[Dashing Bob S]

They'll build the new stand, and, as tribute to previous generations, fill it with the ghosts of Hearts players past.


Then, when people argue that they can't see anything, Budge will tell them it's because they don't BELIEVE enough.

[son of haggart]

Last I heard FoH were bringing in £1.2m a year not £1.5m? Still an impressive amount and will be enough to pay for the new stand within a few years without impact on the team but important to get these figures correct.


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In the May 2016 update from FOH it was stated that contributions were running at £127,500 which equals £1,530,000 per annum, while in the July update it stated that the number of subscribers had increased to their highest level since June 2015 ( to 8,083) so the figure will be at least £1,5million per annum unless subs drop.

Impac t on the team is a more interesting one. Football fans like to simplify things and clubs feed that with spin like "every penny of season ticket income will go to the manager for the playing squad" or in our case that funding for the stadium will not impact on the player budget.

The fact is that all clubs operate an overall budget and the playing budget is dependent on that overall figure (or should be - rogue owners don't always follow this!) - money is not hypothecated. Our season ticket money goes into the pot. The club looks at its overall funding and costs and the managers get what's left, not what we put in.

[son of haggart]

Last I heard FoH were bringing in £1.2m a year not £1.5m? Still an impressive amount and will be enough to pay for the new stand within a few years without impact on the team but important to get these figures correct.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In the May 2016 update from FOH it was stated that contributions were running at £127,500 which equals £1,530,000 per annum, while in the July update it stated that the number of subscribers had increased to their highest level since June 2015 ( to 8,083) so the figure will be at least £1,5million per annum unless subs drop.

[GreenLake]

In the May 2016 update from FOH it was stated that contributions were running at £127,500 which equals £1,530,000 per annum, while in the July update it stated that the number of subscribers had increased to their highest level since June 2015 ( to 8,083) so the figure will be at least £1,5million per annum unless subs drop.

Impac t on the team is a more interesting one. Football fans like to simplify things and clubs feed that with spin like "every penny of season ticket income will go to the manager for the playing squad" or in our case that funding for the stadium will not impact on the player budget.

The fact is that all clubs operate an overall budget and the playing budget is dependent on that overall figure (or should be - rogue owners don't always follow this!) - money is not hypothecated. Our season ticket money goes into the pot. The club looks at its overall funding and costs and the managers get what's left, not what we put in.

Still a lot to pay back while building a stand and at a rate you would expect for the riskiest of Deutsche Bank's bonds which people want to hold so much they are selling for 75 cents on the dollar. A loan at 6% is harsh, 2% would have been above what a bank would give you in a savings account.

[greenginger]

I believe so (or last I heard but that was sometime ago) - she, like me, will be in the 24.9% and therefore her shareholding will entitle her to attend AGMs (I'm sure she would brighten them up!), receive annual reports and have nice certificate for her wall but that's about it.

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk.p.preprod.performgroup.com/javaImages/48/3b/0,,10289~2702152,00.jpg

I think it was mentioned in the last Hearts accounts that Bidco 1874 had bought Vlads nieces share for around £20,000.

There is still about 4.5 per cent of the share holding held by the QTLR. These are the original Homfc shares bought by Vlad and put in a company called Homfc 2005 ltd which was struck off the companies register in 2013.

I doubt the the queen or her Lord treasurer are aware of their valuable windfall. :greengrin

[son of haggart]

Still a lot to pay back while building a stand and at a rate you would expect for the riskiest of Deutsche Bank's bonds which people want to hold so much they are selling for 75 cents on the dollar. A loan at 6% is harsh, 2% would have been above what a bank would give you in a savings account.


From the FAQs on the FOH

My reading is that the interest will only be charged during the period we pay off the loan itself (ie once the stadium is funded)

Q 8– What, if any, additional interest will be paid on the Bidco loan to the Club if the transition to FoH majority ownership is extended under the proposal?

A – No interest will be charged on the Bidco loan during the Stadium funding period.

[Ozyhibby]

Still a lot to pay back while building a stand and at a rate you would expect for the riskiest of Deutsche Bank's bonds which people want to hold so much they are selling for 75 cents on the dollar. A loan at 6% is harsh, 2% would have been above what a bank would give you in a savings account.

To be fair, lending to yams is just about the riskiest thing you can do with your money so I think 6% is a bargain for them.


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[green day]

The target is still 75% (75.1% actually) . Assuming FOH continues to raise approximately £1.5million a year share ownership will transfer in chunks - 20% in June 2017, 15% in June 2018 and the remaining 40.1% when the loan from Ann Budge is paid off, which at the current rate would be around June 2020.


Is there no impact from the diversion of FoH funds to the building of the stand on those dates?

If not, why not simply transfer the ownership of the 35% now?

Or am I being thick?

[ancient hibee]

From the FAQs on the FOH

My reading is that the interest will only be charged during the period we pay off the loan itself (ie once the stadium is funded)

Q 8– What, if any, additional interest will be paid on the Bidco loan to the Club if the transition to FoH majority ownership is extended under the proposal?

A – No interest will be charged on the Bidco loan during the Stadium funding period.

But is it not the case that there are discussions about using the FOH donations exclusively in the stadium financing arrangement-present shortfall £6million according to Ms Budge in which case there is no chance that the current timescale for share transfer will be met.

[son of haggart]

Is there no impact from the diversion of FoH funds to the building of the stand on those dates?

If not, why not simply transfer the ownership of the 35% now?

Or am I being thick?


The impact is already included there - FOH would have taken control by 2018 (I think - can't be bothered to check) whereas now it will be 2020. We are effectively just deferring the purchase of shares to purchase the ground first

[son of haggart]

But is it not the case that there are discussions about using the FOH donations exclusively in the stadium financing arrangement-present shortfall £6million according to Ms Budge in which case there is no chance that the current timescale for share transfer will be met.

I don't know

[green day]

The impact is already included there - FOH would have taken control by 2018 (I think - can't be bothered to check) whereas now it will be 2020. We are effectively just deferring the purchase of shares to purchase the ground first

If the control is deferred by 2 years, that presumably means FoH contributing £3M (2 years at £1.5M) to the build?

I thought that £6M of the £12M had been secured already (by diverting FoH money, some from wealthy benefactors - lets hope not Russian submariner types?) and that left a shortfall of £6M to be paid by the end of the build.

I find it hard to believe that any of the £6M is coming from existing revenue.

If FoH are only paying £3M, then theres a hell of a lot to come out of Budges pocket which must impact the repayment of the loan (unless its a gift?).

All very confusing.

[Mr White]

If the control is deferred by 2 years, that presumably means FoH contributing £3M (2 years at £1.5M) to the build?

I thought that £6M of the £12M had been secured already (by diverting FoH money, some from wealthy benefactors - lets hope not Russian submariner types?) and that left a shortfall of £6M to be paid by the end of the build.

I find it hard to believe that any of the £6M is coming from existing revenue.

If FoH are only paying £3M, then theres a hell of a lot to come out of Budges pocket which must impact the repayment of the loan (unless its a gift?).

All very confusing.

I think we need to take our wee team green tinted specs off here, this is how all big clubs operate. What we see as a "shortfall" they see as an "opportunity". Probably an opportunity to bump someone right enough but an opportunity never the less. Move along, nothing to see here etc etc...

[Bostonhibby]

But is it not the case that there are discussions about using the FOH donations exclusively in the stadium financing arrangement-present shortfall £6million according to Ms Budge in which case there is no chance that the current timescale for share transfer will be met.
I know it's yamenomics here but if the money saved for shares isn't getting them any shares at the agreed time but is now being diverted to build a stand (beneficial owner Budge) then the answer is yes?

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[GreenLake]

The impact is already included there - FOH would have taken control by 2018 (I think - can't be bothered to check) whereas now it will be 2020. We are effectively just deferring the purchase of shares to purchase the ground first

The new Hearts museum should have an entire wing devoted to "deferring" which you seem to do very effectively and permanently. Player wages, supplier bills, VAT, income tax, poppy payments etc. etc. etc.

[NAE NOOKIE]

You provide terrific entertainment I will give you that

do you seriously think they would forget where the visitors sit

every time you come out with a "this can't happen due to bats, nursery, building owned by XYZ, distillery, funding, planning consent, FOH funding etc etc etc you have to move on to the next straw clutching excuse hoping beyond hope that this will fall through

I think you need to understand that the new regime is not in the slightest similar to the Vlad era and accept that we are now a well run club trying to win back trust from the local community and football in general.

I think with things like the museum and memorial garden as well as now keeping up to date with publishing accounts , not paying players what we can't afford etc etc we are getting there

have a look at the museum next time you are snooping round the Wheatfield undercroft(with work ongoing that you said wasn't possible) it really is a fantastic reward for the years of hard work of the volunteer historians(fans) and I am sure you would be impressed.

Oi ... a bit of respect mate 'Greenginger' is a legend on sickbag :greengrin

A wee scan of my posts will show that I'm all for your club replacing the current deathtr ... sorry I mean piece of Hearts history, with a new modern stand, its long overdue and as I've said, I wish a lot of other Scottish clubs would find a way to make the effort.

I think what bugs a lot of us is that this new incarnation of Heart of Midlothian are being held up by the media and not least by themselves as a beacon of light to the rest of Scottish football, but the truth is that its not entirely as a result of any planned strategy is it? ... no matter how much Hearts like to pretend it is.

For example:

Hearts did not come up with the idea of fan ownership, it was practically forced on them by the need to encourage fans to put into FOH and the only return for that had to be a piece of the action.

The media hold up Hearts as a model for fan ownership and Hibs never get a mention .... the fact is that FOH do not own a stick of the club and yet Hibs fans currently own around 20% of our club, you can see why we get pissed off.

Hearts made a big 'holier than thou' deal of paying the living wage, but I know for an absolute fact that as long as 4 years ago non football staff at Hibs who were directly employed by the club were earning over the minimum wage ( before folk started talking about 'the living wage' ) but you didn't hear us making a big song and dance over it.

Save the Children:
Barcelona earn kudos for wearing the UNICEF logo on their shirts for free. If you ask me the way Hearts have gone about the 'Save the Children' advert on their shirts is rather cynical. Far from being a philanthropic gesture is it not the case that up to three mysterious Jambos stumped up a considerable sum of money to cover the loss the club would have made by giving up the shirt advert to STC for nothing? The big question not being asked is ..... who are these mystery benefactors and where was their money when Hearts were hours from oblivion?
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure Save the Children are more than happy with the arrangement, but once again its a case of Hearts engineering a situation to make it look like something its not for the clubs benefit and in this case in ( as I said ) a pretty cynical manner.

McCrae's battalion:
This is a sticky one ..... Nobody, least of all me, would want to be seen to in any way disrespect the undoubted sacrifice that the Hearts players who joined up made, its a part of the clubs history of which it should rightly be proud. But in recent years it seems to me ( not just me ) that the club have milked this part of its history for all its worth with commemorative strips and goodness knows what else. I'm aware that we are currently in the 100 year centenary period between 1914 and 1918 but even so its all getting a bit tiresome. I don't think they have done it yet, but IMO Hearts are getting pretty close to a line that separates respectful commemoration from shameful exploitation.

The conclusion to all this is that what you get from Hearts these days is a very clever strategy of making accident look like design and clever marketing look like moral philanthropy ..... Don't get me wrong, its a very successful strategy and without doubt the media have lapped it up. But to a lot of us its all a bit like lighting a fag in a room and getting told off for it by an ex 60 a day smoker.

P.S.

They day the Hibees release a truly bowfin away strip and try to justify it by saying its a tribute to some fascist upper class nob who was attached to the club decades ago is the day I'll give it all up .... forelock tugging aint for us.

Bitter Hobos eh :greengrin

[Bostonhibby]

Oi ... a bit of respect mate 'Greenginger' is a legend on sickbag :greengrin

A wee scan of my posts will show that I'm all for your club replacing the current deathtr ... sorry I mean piece of Hearts history, with a new modern stand, its long overdue and as I've said, I wish a lot of other Scottish clubs would find a way to make the effort.

I think what bugs a lot of us is that this new incarnation of Heart of Midlothian are being held up by the media and not least by themselves as a beacon of light to the rest of Scottish football, but the truth is that its not entirely as a result of any planned strategy is it? ... no matter how much Hearts like to pretend it is.

For example:

Hearts did not come up with the idea of fan ownership, it was practically forced on them by the need to encourage fans to put into FOH and the only return for that had to be a piece of the action.

The media hold up Hearts as a model for fan ownership and Hibs never get a mention .... the fact is that FOH do not own a stick of the club and yet Hibs fans currently own around 20% of our club, you can see why we get pissed off.

Hearts made a big 'holier than thou' deal of paying the living wage, but I know for an absolute fact that as long as 4 years ago non football staff at Hibs who were directly employed by the club were earning over the minimum wage ( before folk started talking about 'the living wage' ) but you didn't hear us making a big song and dance over it.

Save the Children:
Barcelona earn kudos for wearing the UNICEF logo on their shirts for free. If you ask me the way Hearts have gone about the 'Save the Children' advert on their shirts is rather cynical. Far from being a philanthropic gesture is it not the case that up to three mysterious Jambos stumped up a considerable sum of money to cover the loss the club would have made by giving up the shirt advert to STC for nothing? The big question not being asked is ..... who are these mystery benefactors and where was their money when Hearts were hours from oblivion?
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure Save the Children are more than happy with the arrangement, but once again its a case of Hearts engineering a situation to make it look like something its not for the clubs benefit and in this case in ( as I said ) a pretty cynical manner.

McCrae's battalion:
This is a sticky one ..... Nobody, least of all me, would want to be seen to in any way disrespect the undoubted sacrifice that the Hearts players who joined up made, its a part of the clubs history of which it should rightly be proud. But in recent years it seems to me ( not just me ) that the club have milked this part of its history for all its worth with commemorative strips and goodness knows what else. I'm aware that we are currently in the 100 year centenary period between 1914 and 1918 but even so its all getting a bit tiresome. I don't think they have done it yet, but IMO Hearts are getting pretty close to a line that separates respectful commemoration from shameful exploitation.

The conclusion to all this is that what you get from Hearts these days is a very clever strategy of making accident look like design and clever marketing look like moral philanthropy ..... Don't get me wrong, its a very successful strategy and without doubt the media have lapped it up. But to a lot of us its all a bit like lighting a fag in a room and getting told off for it by an ex 60 a day smoker.

P.S.

They day the Hibees release a truly bowfin away strip and try to justify it by saying its a tribute to some fascist upper class nob who was attached to the club decades ago is the day I'll give it all up .... forelock tugging aint for us.

Bitter Hobos eh :greengrin
Excellent summary, just need to add a wee comment about the Macraes Battalion Trust being on their own creditors list. How's that one squared away when the special relationship is trumpeted?

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[Sergey]

Oi ... a bit of respect mate 'Greenginger' is a legend on sickbag :greengrin

A wee scan of my posts will show that I'm all for your club replacing the current deathtr ... sorry I mean piece of Hearts history, with a new modern stand, its long overdue and as I've said, I wish a lot of other Scottish clubs would find a way to make the effort.

I think what bugs a lot of us is that this new incarnation of Heart of Midlothian are being held up by the media and not least by themselves as a beacon of light to the rest of Scottish football, but the truth is that its not entirely as a result of any planned strategy is it? ... no matter how much Hearts like to pretend it is.

For example:

Hearts did not come up with the idea of fan ownership, it was practically forced on them by the need to encourage fans to put into FOH and the only return for that had to be a piece of the action.

The media hold up Hearts as a model for fan ownership and Hibs never get a mention .... the fact is that FOH do not own a stick of the club and yet Hibs fans currently own around 20% of our club, you can see why we get pissed off.

Hearts made a big 'holier than thou' deal of paying the living wage, but I know for an absolute fact that as long as 4 years ago non football staff at Hibs who were directly employed by the club were earning over the minimum wage ( before folk started talking about 'the living wage' ) but you didn't hear us making a big song and dance over it.

Save the Children:
Barcelona earn kudos for wearing the UNICEF logo on their shirts for free. If you ask me the way Hearts have gone about the 'Save the Children' advert on their shirts is rather cynical. Far from being a philanthropic gesture is it not the case that up to three mysterious Jambos stumped up a considerable sum of money to cover the loss the club would have made by giving up the shirt advert to STC for nothing? The big question not being asked is ..... who are these mystery benefactors and where was their money when Hearts were hours from oblivion?
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure Save the Children are more than happy with the arrangement, but once again its a case of Hearts engineering a situation to make it look like something its not for the clubs benefit and in this case in ( as I said ) a pretty cynical manner.

McCrae's battalion:
This is a sticky one ..... Nobody, least of all me, would want to be seen to in any way disrespect the undoubted sacrifice that the Hearts players who joined up made, its a part of the clubs history of which it should rightly be proud. But in recent years it seems to me ( not just me ) that the club have milked this part of its history for all its worth with commemorative strips and goodness knows what else. I'm aware that we are currently in the 100 year centenary period between 1914 and 1918 but even so its all getting a bit tiresome. I don't think they have done it yet, but IMO Hearts are getting pretty close to a line that separates respectful commemoration from shameful exploitation.

The conclusion to all this is that what you get from Hearts these days is a very clever strategy of making accident look like design and clever marketing look like moral philanthropy ..... Don't get me wrong, its a very successful strategy and without doubt the media have lapped it up. But to a lot of us its all a bit like lighting a fag in a room and getting told off for it by an ex 60 a day smoker.

P.S.

They day the Hibees release a truly bowfin away strip and try to justify it by saying its a tribute to some fascist upper class nob who was attached to the club decades ago is the day I'll give it all up .... forelock tugging aint for us.

Bitter Hobos eh :greengrin

10/10 - I'll also pay for this banner!

17485

[Hibs90]

Oi ... a bit of respect mate 'Greenginger' is a legend on sickbag :greengrin

A wee scan of my posts will show that I'm all for your club replacing the current deathtr ... sorry I mean piece of Hearts history, with a new modern stand, its long overdue and as I've said, I wish a lot of other Scottish clubs would find a way to make the effort.

I think what bugs a lot of us is that this new incarnation of Heart of Midlothian are being held up by the media and not least by themselves as a beacon of light to the rest of Scottish football, but the truth is that its not entirely as a result of any planned strategy is it? ... no matter how much Hearts like to pretend it is.

For example:

Hearts did not come up with the idea of fan ownership, it was practically forced on them by the need to encourage fans to put into FOH and the only return for that had to be a piece of the action.

The media hold up Hearts as a model for fan ownership and Hibs never get a mention .... the fact is that FOH do not own a stick of the club and yet Hibs fans currently own around 20% of our club, you can see why we get pissed off.

Hearts made a big 'holier than thou' deal of paying the living wage, but I know for an absolute fact that as long as 4 years ago non football staff at Hibs who were directly employed by the club were earning over the minimum wage ( before folk started talking about 'the living wage' ) but you didn't hear us making a big song and dance over it.

Save the Children:
Barcelona earn kudos for wearing the UNICEF logo on their shirts for free. If you ask me the way Hearts have gone about the 'Save the Children' advert on their shirts is rather cynical. Far from being a philanthropic gesture is it not the case that up to three mysterious Jambos stumped up a considerable sum of money to cover the loss the club would have made by giving up the shirt advert to STC for nothing? The big question not being asked is ..... who are these mystery benefactors and where was their money when Hearts were hours from oblivion?
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure Save the Children are more than happy with the arrangement, but once again its a case of Hearts engineering a situation to make it look like something its not for the clubs benefit and in this case in ( as I said ) a pretty cynical manner.

McCrae's battalion:
This is a sticky one ..... Nobody, least of all me, would want to be seen to in any way disrespect the undoubted sacrifice that the Hearts players who joined up made, its a part of the clubs history of which it should rightly be proud. But in recent years it seems to me ( not just me ) that the club have milked this part of its history for all its worth with commemorative strips and goodness knows what else. I'm aware that we are currently in the 100 year centenary period between 1914 and 1918 but even so its all getting a bit tiresome. I don't think they have done it yet, but IMO Hearts are getting pretty close to a line that separates respectful commemoration from shameful exploitation.

The conclusion to all this is that what you get from Hearts these days is a very clever strategy of making accident look like design and clever marketing look like moral philanthropy ..... Don't get me wrong, its a very successful strategy and without doubt the media have lapped it up. But to a lot of us its all a bit like lighting a fag in a room and getting told off for it by an ex 60 a day smoker.

P.S.

They day the Hibees release a truly bowfin away strip and try to justify it by saying its a tribute to some fascist upper class nob who was attached to the club decades ago is the day I'll give it all up .... forelock tugging aint for us.

Bitter Hobos eh :greengrin

Best post I've read on here in a long time

[Hibs90]

Actually while I'm here can anyone tell me if they have actually paid any of the creditors at all? My mate (I know) is certain they have but has zero proof.

[greenginger]

Oi ... a bit of respect mate 'Greenginger' is a legend on sickbag :greengrin

A wee scan of my posts will show that I'm all for your club replacing the current deathtr ... sorry I mean piece of Hearts history, with a new modern stand, its long overdue and as I've said, I wish a lot of other Scottish clubs would find a way to make the effort.

I think what bugs a lot of us is that this new incarnation of Heart of Midlothian are being held up by the media and not least by themselves as a beacon of light to the rest of Scottish football, but the truth is that its not entirely as a result of any planned strategy is it? ... no matter how much Hearts like to pretend it is.

For example:

Hearts did not come up with the idea of fan ownership, it was practically forced on them by the need to encourage fans to put into FOH and the only return for that had to be a piece of the action.

The media hold up Hearts as a model for fan ownership and Hibs never get a mention .... the fact is that FOH do not own a stick of the club and yet Hibs fans currently own around 20% of our club, you can see why we get pissed off.

Hearts made a big 'holier than thou' deal of paying the living wage, but I know for an absolute fact that as long as 4 years ago non football staff at Hibs who were directly employed by the club were earning over the minimum wage ( before folk started talking about 'the living wage' ) but you didn't hear us making a big song and dance over it.

Save the Children:
Barcelona earn kudos for wearing the UNICEF logo on their shirts for free. If you ask me the way Hearts have gone about the 'Save the Children' advert on their shirts is rather cynical. Far from being a philanthropic gesture is it not the case that up to three mysterious Jambos stumped up a considerable sum of money to cover the loss the club would have made by giving up the shirt advert to STC for nothing? The big question not being asked is ..... who are these mystery benefactors and where was their money when Hearts were hours from oblivion?
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure Save the Children are more than happy with the arrangement, but once again its a case of Hearts engineering a situation to make it look like something its not for the clubs benefit and in this case in ( as I said ) a pretty cynical manner.

McCrae's battalion:
This is a sticky one ..... Nobody, least of all me, would want to be seen to in any way disrespect the undoubted sacrifice that the Hearts players who joined up made, its a part of the clubs history of which it should rightly be proud. But in recent years it seems to me ( not just me ) that the club have milked this part of its history for all its worth with commemorative strips and goodness knows what else. I'm aware that we are currently in the 100 year centenary period between 1914 and 1918 but even so its all getting a bit tiresome. I don't think they have done it yet, but IMO Hearts are getting pretty close to a line that separates respectful commemoration from shameful exploitation.

The conclusion to all this is that what you get from Hearts these days is a very clever strategy of making accident look like design and clever marketing look like moral philanthropy ..... Don't get me wrong, its a very successful strategy and without doubt the media have lapped it up. But to a lot of us its all a bit like lighting a fag in a room and getting told off for it by an ex 60 a day smoker.

P.S.

They day the Hibees release a truly bowfin away strip and try to justify it by saying its a tribute to some fascist upper class nob who was attached to the club decades ago is the day I'll give it all up .... forelock tugging aint for us.

Bitter Hobos eh :greengrin



A legend on Sickback, surely not ! There again I've not visited that vomit inducing site for perv's and sicko's for years.

[Bostonhibby]

Actually while I'm here can anyone tell me if they have actually paid any of the creditors at all? My mate (I know) is certain they have but has zero proof.

They had to pay football debts to other member clubs or at least make an arrangement to do it, and someone paid the Lady Haig Poppy fund on the clubs behalf. No evidence that the business that went into admin paid anyone else anything at all(?) surely they'd be screaming from the rooftops if they had.

[NAE NOOKIE]

A legend on Sickback, surely not ! There again I've not visited that vomit inducing site for perv's and sicko's for years.

You should mate, the entertainment value is beyond question and if your dislike of them needs reinforced the 5 minutes of reading it takes to confirm just how up themselves they still are will do it nicely. Check out their new stand thread, you get mentioned more than Ann Budge does :faf:

[Geo_1875]

You should mate, the entertainment value is beyond question and if your dislike of them needs reinforced the 5 minutes of reading it takes to confirm just how up themselves they still are will do it nicely. Check out their new stand thread, you get mentioned more than Ann Budge does :faf:

I can't imagine ever needing to reinforce my extreme dislike of them.

[Just Alf]

One of my jambo neighbours, and who's also a friend (I know, I know! Lol) is a creditor and was never repaid.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Kato]

They had to pay football debts to other member clubs or at least make an arrangement to do it, and someone paid the Lady Haig Poppy fund on the clubs behalf. No evidence that the business that went into admin paid anyone else anything at all(?) surely they'd be screaming from the rooftops if they had.

It's here that it should be mentioned that on taking Hibs over Tom Farmer paid all Hibs footballing debts. There are liars out there, mainly on the nuthouse that is the EEN/Scotsman comments sections, who claim that Farmer "bumped" all Hibs debtors when in fact the opposite is true.


Actually while I'm here can anyone tell me if they have actually paid any of the creditors at all? My mate (I know) is certain they have but has zero proof.

He probably believes that other Hearts liar Lord Fatty Foulkes who claimed, with zero evidence, that the Lithuanian Govt had a fund from which all the creditors were paid "so no-one was harmed". No evidence at all that that actually happened.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I can't imagine ever needing to reinforce my extreme dislike of them.

I used the phrase for poetic purposes only .... I'm aware that no such reinforcement is required :greengrin

[Bostonhibby]

It's here that it should be mentioned that on taking Hibs over Tom Farmer paid all Hibs footballing debts. There are liars out there, mainly on the nuthouse that is the EEN/Scotsman comments sections, who claim that Farmer "bumped" all Hibs debtors when in fact the opposite is true.



He probably believes that other Hearts liar Lord Fatty Foulkes who claimed, with zero evidence, that the Lithuanian Govt had a fund from which all the creditors were paid "so no-one was harmed". No evidence at all that that actually happened.

Our situation just pre and post Farmer getting involved wasn't the same as the yams believerfest and ultimately car crash and the utter humiliation of having to put together your own list of people you have bumped so you can properly bump them by going into admin. Straightforward fact.

Lord George, do you mean this outstanding yam? he could only be a yam, love the fact that vouched for Vlad.

[greenginger]

You should mate, the entertainment value is beyond question and if your dislike of them needs reinforced the 5 minutes of reading it takes to confirm just how up themselves they still are will do it nicely. Check out their new stand thread, you get mentioned more than Ann Budge does :faf:


They must all all be readers of Hibs.net then, never post anywhere else.

I will just have to keep digging out inconvenient facts for them, just to keep the muppets pissed off.

[SuperAllyMcleod]

Oi ... a bit of respect mate 'Greenginger' is a legend on sickbag :greengrin

A wee scan of my posts will show that I'm all for your club replacing the current deathtr ... sorry I mean piece of Hearts history, with a new modern stand, its long overdue and as I've said, I wish a lot of other Scottish clubs would find a way to make the effort.

I think what bugs a lot of us is that this new incarnation of Heart of Midlothian are being held up by the media and not least by themselves as a beacon of light to the rest of Scottish football, but the truth is that its not entirely as a result of any planned strategy is it? ... no matter how much Hearts like to pretend it is.

For example:

Hearts did not come up with the idea of fan ownership, it was practically forced on them by the need to encourage fans to put into FOH and the only return for that had to be a piece of the action.

The media hold up Hearts as a model for fan ownership and Hibs never get a mention .... the fact is that FOH do not own a stick of the club and yet Hibs fans currently own around 20% of our club, you can see why we get pissed off.

Hearts made a big 'holier than thou' deal of paying the living wage, but I know for an absolute fact that as long as 4 years ago non football staff at Hibs who were directly employed by the club were earning over the minimum wage ( before folk started talking about 'the living wage' ) but you didn't hear us making a big song and dance over it.

Save the Children:
Barcelona earn kudos for wearing the UNICEF logo on their shirts for free. If you ask me the way Hearts have gone about the 'Save the Children' advert on their shirts is rather cynical. Far from being a philanthropic gesture is it not the case that up to three mysterious Jambos stumped up a considerable sum of money to cover the loss the club would have made by giving up the shirt advert to STC for nothing? The big question not being asked is ..... who are these mystery benefactors and where was their money when Hearts were hours from oblivion?
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure Save the Children are more than happy with the arrangement, but once again its a case of Hearts engineering a situation to make it look like something its not for the clubs benefit and in this case in ( as I said ) a pretty cynical manner.

McCrae's battalion:
This is a sticky one ..... Nobody, least of all me, would want to be seen to in any way disrespect the undoubted sacrifice that the Hearts players who joined up made, its a part of the clubs history of which it should rightly be proud. But in recent years it seems to me ( not just me ) that the club have milked this part of its history for all its worth with commemorative strips and goodness knows what else. I'm aware that we are currently in the 100 year centenary period between 1914 and 1918 but even so its all getting a bit tiresome. I don't think they have done it yet, but IMO Hearts are getting pretty close to a line that separates respectful commemoration from shameful exploitation.

The conclusion to all this is that what you get from Hearts these days is a very clever strategy of making accident look like design and clever marketing look like moral philanthropy ..... Don't get me wrong, its a very successful strategy and without doubt the media have lapped it up. But to a lot of us its all a bit like lighting a fag in a room and getting told off for it by an ex 60 a day smoker.

P.S.

They day the Hibees release a truly bowfin away strip and try to justify it by saying its a tribute to some fascist upper class nob who was attached to the club decades ago is the day I'll give it all up .... forelock tugging aint for us.

Bitter Hobos eh :greengrin

Take a bow, a tremendous summary - hopefully someone will post it on sickbag. [emoji106]

[WhileTheChief..]

Why would the new Hearts regime pay the bills of the old one? They may well of done for creditors that they still do business with but they're not obliged to at all.

If my local chippy goes into admin and I then take it over it's not up to me to pay the suppliers etc that were stiffed by the previous owners.

Also, bear in mind that businesses pay their bills in arrears. On the day that Hearts went into administration there would have been a lot of outstanding invoices purely down to business as usual. I'd bet that many of these companies continue to do business with Hearts even though Vlad left them out of pocket.

I don't see how Budge is responsible for any of the previous regime's antics.

This thread is as bad as Kickback.

[Kato]

Why would the new Hearts regime pay the bills of the old one?

They aren't obliged to but then again they are now portraying themselves as a "community" club with "morals" so why are they studiously ignoring their previous debts is maybe a more apt question.



This thread is as bad as Kickback.

I never go on kickback, in what way is this thread like something from there?

[Geo_1875]

Why would the new Hearts regime pay the bills of the old one? They may well of done for creditors that they still do business with but they're not obliged to at all.

If my local chippy goes into admin and I then take it over it's not up to me to pay the suppliers etc that were stiffed by the previous owners.

Also, bear in mind that businesses pay their bills in arrears. On the day that Hearts went into administration there would have been a lot of outstanding invoices purely down to business as usual. I'd bet that many of these companies continue to do business with Hearts even though Vlad left them out of pocket.

I don't see how Budge is responsible for any of the previous regime's antics.

This thread is as bad as Kickback.

Same club, same supporters, same sense of entitlement. Never let them forget.

[Danderhall Hibs]

They had to pay football debts to other member clubs or at least make an arrangement to do it, and someone paid the Lady Haig Poppy fund on the clubs behalf. No evidence that the business that went into admin paid anyone else anything at all(?) surely they'd be screaming from the rooftops if they had.

I don’t think they can pick and choose who to pay back. As you say though the poppy money got paid – by Sir Tom Farmer as the rumour goes.

[Geo_1875]

I don’t think they can pick and choose who to pay back. As you say though the poppy money got paid – by Sir Tom Farmer as the rumour goes.

But they did. They chose to pay nobody.

I'm pretty sure if they did choose to pay anybody back it would be perfectly legal as the administration has been settled.

[brog]

I'm sure CWG can give the definitive answer but none of the small creditors would have received anything.

[CropleyWasGod]

But they did. They chose to pay nobody.

I'm pretty sure if they did choose to pay anybody back it would be perfectly legal as the administration has been settled.

They can't pay anybody at all now. That would be unfair to those they don't pay, as well as prejudicial to those they currently do business with.

[Bostonhibby]

I don’t think they can pick and choose who to pay back. As you say though the poppy money got paid – by Sir Tom Farmer as the rumour goes.

FA rules are that they must repay football debts as a condition of their membership. Think they were the only ones that survive an admin event. Doesn't mean they have actually paid though.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I'm sure CWG can give the definitive answer but none of the small creditors would have received anything.

Heard rumours that Budge paid it all back, barring the Ukio debt?

[CropleyWasGod]

Heard rumours that Budge paid it all back, barring the Ukio debt?

I think we would have heard more than "rumours" if she had. The positive PR would have been irresistible.

[Ozyhibby]

Heard rumours that Budge paid it all back, barring the Ukio debt?

Absolutely no chance. She is not stupid.


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[Danderhall Hibs]

I think we would have heard more than "rumours" if she had. The positive PR would have been irresistible.

I did wonder that but it was pretty convincing.

[Bostonhibby]

Absolutely no chance. She is not stupid.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Football debt only paid, because they had to, and not by Budge.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/football-debt-settled-as-club-step-closer-to-fan-ownership.25842766

[Kato]

Heard rumours that Budge paid it all back, barring the Ukio debt?

I take it the rumours stemmed from a Hearts supporting source who is also good at making up fairy tales.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I take it the rumours stemmed from a Hearts supporting source who is also good at making up fairy tales.

A Hearts supporter who is an intelligent, financially aware/astute man.

[Bostonhibby]

A Hearts supporter who is an intelligent, financially aware/astute man.
See link above quoting budgie

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[hibs0666]

Heard rumours that Budge paid it all back, barring the Ukio debt?

Not a hope.

[Kato]

A Hearts supporter who is an intelligent, financially aware/astute man.

....they should employ him at Tynie with those credentials, been missing at Tynie for years. Good at spinning nonsense as well.

[Brummie_Hibs]

A Hearts supporter who is an intelligent, financially aware/astute man.

An Oxymoron, if I ever did hear one!

[Smartie]

An Oxymoron, if I ever did hear one!

:agree:

Up there with "Jambo with a penchant for the older lady".

[GreenLake]

A Hearts supporter who is an intelligent, financially aware/astute man.

Yet he still supports them?

[Danderhall Hibs]

Yet he still supports them?

Yes. I'm not sure why he'd stop supporting them?

Obviously he's been told/read that they've paid the debts (excluding Ukio) and believed it. Maybe cos he wants to rather than cos it happened.

[Danderhall Hibs]

See link above quoting budgie

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Cheers - maybe a (deliberate) mix up.

[Bostonhibby]

Cheers - maybe a (deliberate) mix up.
Welcome[emoji106]
To be fair they always said they owed it to themselves so maybe they paid it all to themselves!

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[Dashing Bob S]

I'm sure the stand will happen at some point, basically because, given the state of the Asbo stand, it just has to.

BUT

1. It will not be built on time.
2. It will cost more than they budgeted for.
3. It will scupper fan ownership plans or hold them back.
4. It will be *****, cheaper, smaller and crapper than ours.
5. It will divert funds from the team and performances, league placing and attendances will plummet to the point they will be wondering why they bothered in the first place.

[WhileTheChief..]

Hopefully it will be that mingling shade of pink too in keeping with the rest of the place.

[Wee Effen Bee]

Why would the new Hearts regime pay the bills of the old one? They may well of done for creditors that they still do business with but they're not obliged to at all.

If my local chippy goes into admin and I then take it over it's not up to me to pay the suppliers etc that were stiffed by the previous owners.

Also, bear in mind that businesses pay their bills in arrears. On the day that Hearts went into administration there would have been a lot of outstanding invoices purely down to business as usual. I'd bet that many of these companies continue to do business with Hearts even though Vlad left them out of pocket.

I don't see how Budge is responsible for any of the previous regime's antics.

This thread is as bad as Kickback.

That's because your business would have absolutely no links whatsoever with the previous incumbent of the chippy...unlike HMFC: same club, same fans, same traditions etc. Tom Farmer did it for Hibs' creditors because he felt the previous regime had, in a way, 'ripped them off' and he didn't want any negativity attached to Hibernian.
I do see your point about this thread but, at the end of the day, it is just Hibs supporters chatting with a lot of 'whataboutery' and 'ifs' and 'maybes' thrown in for good measure.:agree:

[stantonhibby]

Why would the new Hearts regime pay the bills of the old one? They may well of done for creditors that they still do business with but they're not obliged to at all.

If my local chippy goes into admin and I then take it over it's not up to me to pay the suppliers etc that were stiffed by the previous owners.

Also, bear in mind that businesses pay their bills in arrears. On the day that Hearts went into administration there would have been a lot of outstanding invoices purely down to business as usual. I'd bet that many of these companies continue to do business with Hearts even though Vlad left them out of pocket.

I don't see how Budge is responsible for any of the previous regime's antics.

This thread is as bad as Kickback.


Your first paragraph is correct.

However on the day they went into Administration their debts were so high because they chose to prioritise chasing success on the pitch by paying inflated wages they couldn't afford rather than pay their creditors.

[Jack Hackett]

Your first paragraph is correct.

However on the day they went into Administration their debts were so high because they chose to prioritise chasing success on the pitch by paying inflated wages they couldn't afford rather than pay their creditors.

It's often conveniently overlooked that they outright lied about their ability to meet their obligations for months before they finally admitted their insolvency, right up to the point where they cheated Dundee out of a place in the SPL.

What was that phrase they used..."We are now self-sufficient"?

Edit

Sorry. I forgot...a big boy did it and ran away :yw:

[Trainor]

I'm sure the stand will happen at some point, basically because, given the state of the Asbo stand, it just has to.

BUT

1. It will not be built on time.
2. It will cost more than they budgeted for.
3. It will scupper fan ownership plans or hold them back.
4. It will be *****, cheaper, smaller and crapper than ours.
5. It will divert funds from the team and performances, league placing and attendances will plummet to the point they will be wondering why they bothered in the first place.

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/council-officials-back-tynecastle-redevelopment-plans-1-4249656

........getting the go ahead by the looks of things, but 3 weeks behind already!

[Moulin Yarns]

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/council-officials-back-tynecastle-redevelopment-plans-1-4249656

........getting the go ahead by the looks of things, but 3 weeks behind already!


Amazing how something that has yet to receive permission to go ahead, and is not due to start for another 4 weeks is already 3 weeks behind schedule!!


Hearts owner Ann Budge has told BBC Scotland work should commence on the redevelopment of the main stand at Tynecastle in November.

[GreenCastle]

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/council-officials-back-tynecastle-redevelopment-plans-1-4249656

........getting the go ahead by the looks of things, but 3 weeks behind already!

Good...spend spend spend...a lot of money for an extra 3,000 seats and new stand that continues to mean the smallest pitch in league.

Get rid of the death trap main stand once and for all.

Was round at the stadium last week - new work is still happening underneath the Wheatfield (done by Budge's brother supposedly - hence cheap deal) - the place is still a dump - complete mess underneath the Roseburn Stand - you would think they would clean it up as it's right next to the new memorial they have built in the corner.. Old tractors / old chairs / rubbish etc - complete eyesore and ugly stadium.

[jacomo]

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/council-officials-back-tynecastle-redevelopment-plans-1-4249656

........getting the go ahead by the looks of things, but 3 weeks behind already!

I see some bright spark has confidently asserted it will be 'the best stadia in the East of Scotland.'

Are they building two of them?

[Bostonhibby]

It's often conveniently overlooked that they outright lied about their ability to meet their obligations for months before they finally admitted their insolvency, right up to the point where they cheated Dundee out of a place in the SPL.

What was that phrase they used..."We are now self-sufficient"?

Edit

Sorry. I forgot...a big boy did it and ran away :yw:
Suppose in the mind of a believer self sufficiency is achievable if you owe all the debt to yourselves.

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[Hibee87]

I see some bright spark has confidently asserted it will be 'the best stadia in the East of Scotland.'

Are they building two of them?

They will keep telling themselves this as it is smaller than hibs. Until it becomes FACT and they will use the word best stadium FACT, shout it really loudly and run away before they hear a response.

oh and it has a castle view restaurant. Enough said. FACT. Pleasing. (wonder if that qualifies me for a kickback membership?)

[Bostonhibby]

I see some bright spark has confidently asserted it will be 'the best stadia in the East of Scotland.'

Are they building two of them?
Shame it's only the one stand they are maybe building. If it ever goes up the rest of the ground will still be the same.

Probably not the best venue in their own ******* postal area bearing in mind muddyfield is over the road and there's a couple of bowling clubs nearby.

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[greenginger]

On the stand planning application the correspondence between planning officials and the HSE with regard to the adjacent distillery has now been added to the web page.

HSA say they will drop their objections to the development if specific approved alterations to the spirit storage facilities are made and it is a condition that only certain works are started before the completion and approval of the required safety work.

The HSE say they will allow the demolition of the office buildings and nursery and the erection of the new stand main beam, but that is all.

The planning application for the safety work at the distillery was made last week, so a good few weeks for approval and execution.

As for the demolition of the nursery, the temporary replacement accommodation has not even been applied for yet, never mind actually started.

They might get to do a little knocking down in November, that's if they actually acquire the property.

[Geo_1875]

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/council-officials-back-tynecastle-redevelopment-plans-1-4249656

........getting the go ahead by the looks of things, but 3 weeks behind already!

"Hearts have unveiled 12 million plans to redevelop Tynecastle." under the photo at the top of the page.

Can't make do with one plan like everybody else.

[Kato]

I see some bright spark has confidently asserted it will be 'the best stadia in the East of Scotland.'

Are they building two of them?

Blimey. That made me read the comments section. The Jambos on there really are a particularly peculiar brand of roaster.

[Bostonhibby]

Blimey. That made me read the comments section. The Jambos on there really are a particularly peculiar brand of roaster.
It's a special place where like minded yams try to see who can pee the highest on a daily basis without ever having to see another human being.

I think the EEN run it specifically for them and so they are all in one place.

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[HIBERNIAN-0762]

**** of the Earth club and fans.

The council bend over for them once again, don't forget folks, when the next council elections come up again don't vote Labour, yam loving tramps.

[Jack Hackett]

It's a special place where like minded yams try to see who can pee the highest on a daily basis without ever having to see another human being.

I think the EEN run it specifically for them and so they are all in one place.

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I usually have a butchers at the comments at least once a week to remind myself what we're dealing with. They never fail to reinforce my distaste.

[GreenLake]

They will keep telling themselves this as it is smaller than hibs. Until it becomes FACT and they will use the word best stadium FACT, shout it really loudly and run away before they hear a response.

oh and it has a castle view restaurant. Enough said. FACT. Pleasing. (wonder if that qualifies me for a kickback membership?)

That restaurant will be unique in offering it's patrons a view of a castle and a piggery on each side.

[hibbysam]

£12m for 3000 seats, £20 per seat, 11 years to recoup the money. All things considered, it's about time that death trap was brought to the ground.

[Colr]

That restaurant will be unique in offering it's patrons a view of a castle and a piggery on each side.

Can you see the castle from there? Can't be much of a view. I used to have a top floor flat next to Tynecastle and I couldn't see much beyond the railway bridge and the clap clinic on the corner with Ardmillan.

[jacomo]

Blimey. That made me read the comments section. The Jambos on there really are a particularly peculiar brand of roaster.

I used to comment on Scotsman stories but gave up years ago because conversing with morons is depressing.

[greenginger]

£12m for 3000 seats, £20 per seat, 11 years to recoup the money. All things considered, it's about time that death trap was brought to the ground.


I think you'll need to do your sums again.

I make it 200 years ! :cb

[Bostonhibby]

Can you see the castle from there? Can't be much of a view. I used to have a top floor flat next to Tynecastle and I couldn't see much beyond the railway bridge and the clap clinic on the corner with Ardmillan.
The council are probably going to move the castle,or raise it on stilts, cannae see the yams fibbing.

Sent from my HTC One mini 2 using Tapatalk

[greenlex]

I think you'll need to do your sums again.

I make it 200 years ! :cb

Must have been a similar deal and depreciation on the last one.

[Hibee87]

Maybe I'm being thick but I'd say it was about 6 - 7 years.

Say they play 30 games in a calender year at home and sell out at 20 a ticket. That's 1.8 mill a year. Makes it 6.6 years give or take. Based on player sales, and the corporate or whatever tent offer I'd say that a about right.

However that depends on it being on time and on budget, and how much is it going to get filled if the playing side takes a hit when paying it off. All ifs and buts really

[greenginger]

Maybe I'm being thick but I'd say it was about 6 - 7 years.

Say they play 30 games in a calender year at home and sell out at 20 a ticket. That's 1.8 mill a year. Makes it 6.6 years give or take. Based on player sales, and the corporate or whatever tent offer I'd say that a about right.

However that depends on it being on time and on budget, and how much is it going to get filled if the playing side takes a hit when paying it off. All ifs and buts really


Right, I was trying to do two things at once, bad idea at my age. :confused:

At say £ 400 for a season ticket less vat , about 12 years, if its a sell out.

[tamig]

I usually have a butchers at the comments at least once a week to remind myself what we're dealing with. They never fail to reinforce my distaste.

I used to read the EEN online when I worked in London and always had a good laugh at their comments. Does that erse Roland still go on it? He was a top roaster.

[ancient hibee]

Maybe I'm being thick but I'd say it was about 6 - 7 years.

Say they play 30 games in a calender year at home and sell out at 20 a ticket. That's 1.8 mill a year. Makes it 6.6 years give or take. Based on player sales, and the corporate or whatever tent offer I'd say that a about right.

However that depends on it being on time and on budget, and how much is it going to get filled if the playing side takes a hit when paying it off. All ifs and buts really

In other words each seat costs £4000'pretty expensive surely.

[hibbysam]

Maybe I'm being thick but I'd say it was about 6 - 7 years.

Say they play 30 games in a calender year at home and sell out at 20 a ticket. That's 1.8 mill a year. Makes it 6.6 years give or take. Based on player sales, and the corporate or whatever tent offer I'd say that a about right.

However that depends on it being on time and on budget, and how much is it going to get filled if the playing side takes a hit when paying it off. All ifs and buts really

18 games a season, can't see where they would fit in 30 home games in a year...? 3000 seats at £20 is £60k per game, x 18 games is just over £1m

[Hibee87]

18 games a season, can't see where they would fit in 30 home games in a year...? 3000 seats at £20 is £60k per game, x 18 games is just over £1m

Yeah I just took a rough stab, maybe closer to 20 - 25 games including cups etc👍

[Fife-Hibee]

They dinnae sell oot every game now ! Don't think they'll sell oot 20,000 so 200 year might be aboot right lol

[Dashing Bob S]

It'll be brilliant. Bigger and better than ours and you're all just jealous. I can't wait to go and finally see what the castle looks like.

[Sergey]

It'll be brilliant. Bigger and better than ours and you're all just jealous. I can't wait to go and finally see what the castle looks like.

:faf:

They're not overly keen on you over on the other side, Robert :greengrin

[Weststandwanab]

£12m for 3000 seats, £20 per seat, 11 years to recoup the money. All things considered, it's about time that death trap was brought to the ground.

Interesting Yamanomics thee.


Right, I was trying to do two things at once, bad idea at my age. :confused:

At say £ 400 for a season ticket less vat , about 12 years, if its a sell out.

Even more interesting.

[hibbysam]

Interesting Yamanomics thee.



Even more interesting.

Mind explaining??

[lucky]

**** of the Earth club and fans.

The council bend over for them once again, don't forget folks, when the next council elections come up again don't vote Labour, yam loving tramps.

It's a SNP-Labour run council

[monktonharp]

[QUOTE=lucky;4832325]It's a SNP-Labour run council[/QUOTEyes , but look at history :wink:

[NAE NOOKIE]

**** of the Earth club and fans.

The council bend over for them once again, don't forget folks, when the next council elections come up again don't vote Labour, yam loving tramps.

Now now old chap, this has nothing to do with political leanings and a lot to do with social status, the Yams have always been the go to club of the Edinburgh establishment and so have sympathetic contacts in the corridors of power and therefor an ability to pull strings there that we simply don't have.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter a rats arse what they are building. It could be a replica of the Allianz arena and it wouldn't matter, its what goes in it that defines it and as far as that goes you can drop a massive turd and build the Taj Mahal around it, it will still be a massive turd and smell just as bad.

Having said that, the way the Yams are going on about it you would think they WERE building the Allianz arena .... the truth is that its a pretty ordinary main stand not much better than you will find at most clubs of the same size around the UK and in many ways below that standard, given the absolute fact that no club given the option would choose to build a single tier main stand .... apart from any comedy value we can glean from it if things go wrong its a pretty insignificant development in the grand scheme of things.

I mean lets face it, its going to end up looking quite a lot like the East stand at Easter Road and though it was quite nice watching that go up and it was definitely an improvement on the old east giving the stadium a better balance, the fact is that most of us would have been pretty underwhelmed if the main stand had been designed the same way.
You can understand the Yams getting all excited about their new stand given what its replacing, but once its done they are going to be left with one of the most boring stadiums around with all of the stands looking exactly the same and not in a good way ..... a sort of full fat version of McDiarmid park.

[WhileTheChief..]

Interesting Yamanomics there

Love it when folk include VAT in their sums. Really adds to the point their trying to make!

[The Falcon]

Maybe I'm being thick but I'd say it was about 6 - 7 years.

Say they play 30 games in a calender year at home and sell out at 20 a ticket. That's 1.8 mill a year. Makes it 6.6 years give or take. Based on player sales, and the corporate or whatever tent offer I'd say that a about right.

However that depends on it being on time and on budget, and how much is it going to get filled if the playing side takes a hit when paying it off. All ifs and buts really


Right, I was trying to do two things at once, bad idea at my age. :confused:

At say £ 400 for a season ticket less vat , about 12 years, if its a sell out.


18 games a season, can't see where they would fit in 30 home games in a year...? 3000 seats at £20 is £60k per game, x 18 games is just over £1m

To be accurate you would probably need to deduct the current architectural masterpeice' capacity from the new build's capacity to establish the extra potential income. The money from every seat in the new stand will not be extra income, only the income from the extra seats contained therein would be.

[Hibee87]

To be accurate you would probably need to deduct the current architectural masterpeice' capacity from the new build's capacity to establish the extra potential income. The money from every seat in the new stand will not be extra income, only the income from the extra seats contained therein would be.

I was basing it on there being 3 thousand extra seats in the stadium, and assuming every game was a sell out. My estimations were all top end. Its hard to predict how their attendances are going to be in 3, 4, 5 years etc if the team suffer as a result of cuts and/or FOH monthly payees decide they have done their bit and stop the DD. as I said before, its all ifs, buts and maybes :aok:

*I personally think it will be way over budget and way over time and at lest another 1.5 mill added to the predicted cost. At least!

[Seveno]

Is now a good time to buy shares in Lego?

[jgl07]

I was basing it on there being 3 thousand extra seats in the stadium, and assuming every game was a sell out. My estimations were all top end. Its hard to predict how their attendances are going to be in 3, 4, 5 years etc if the team suffer as a result of cuts and/or FOH monthly payees decide they have done their bit and stop the DD. as I said before, its all ifs, buts and maybes :aok:

*I personally think it will be way over budget and way over time and at lest another 1.5 mill added to the predicted cost. At least!
Could Hearts not charge higher prices for the privilege of no longer sitting in a rickety death trap of a stand with light bulbs missing, and restricted views?

[Geo_1875]

Right, I was trying to do two things at once, bad idea at my age. :confused:

At say £ 400 for a season ticket less vat , about 12 years, if its a sell out.

But will they all be £400 seats or will there be a number of £50 OAPs and £25 kids tickets amongst them?

[jdships]

" Press release from The Tynecastle Telegraph.
ECC are pleased to agree to a new Stand being built at Gorgie Farm also known as " The Public Bus Shelter "
The new development is we understand to be known as " THE PIG STY"
Funding is to be obtained by increased sales of bakery and monies held back from paying business accounts "
:greengrin:wink::aok:

[GreenLake]

Can you see the castle from there? Can't be much of a view. I used to have a top floor flat next to Tynecastle and I couldn't see much beyond the railway bridge and the clap clinic on the corner with Ardmillan.

That must be where they developed that stupid rapid clapping rhythm they used to sound out in the pig shed before twirling their scarfs above their heads like teenage cheerleaders.

[son of haggart]

But will they all be £400 seats or will there be a number of £50 OAPs and £25 kids tickets amongst them?


Not sure where you get these prices from.

For this season in all parts of the ground except the upper Wheatfield under 13s season tickets were £50. Senior citizens started at £180 in the cheapest seats. Under 18s £155 cheapest seats.

I'd imagine we'll keep roughly the same pricing structure but haven't heard anything.

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

Not sure where you get these prices from.

For this season in all parts of the ground except the upper Wheatfield under 13s season tickets were £50. Senior citizens started at £180 in the cheapest seats. Under 18s £155 cheapest seats.

.

And you still can't sell out any games? :rolleyes:

[son of haggart]

And you still can't sell out any games? :rolleyes:

Posted 24 September 2016 - 11:37 AM
Hearts Ticket Centre ‏@HeartsTickets 2m2 minutes ago

That's us SOLD OUT folks, home end sold out for today's game against @RCFCStaggies


Do you really think we would refuse to sell tickets to anyone after 11.35 on a match day?

Unless you mean the away fans sections?

[SuperAllyMcleod]

" Press release from The Tynecastle Telegraph.
ECC are pleased to agree to a new Stand being built at Gorgie Farm also known as " The Public Bus Shelter "
The new development is we understand to be known as " THE PIG STY"
Funding is to be obtained by increased sales of bakery and monies held back from paying business accounts "
:greengrin:wink::aok:

This is obviously a fake - it's the Pink Bus Shelter! [emoji6][emoji3]

[green day]

Posted 24 September 2016 - 11:37 AM
Hearts Ticket Centre ‏@HeartsTickets 2m2 minutes ago

That's us SOLD OUT folks, home end sold out for today's game against @RCFCStaggies


Do you really think we would refuse to sell tickets to anyone after 11.35 on a match day?

Unless you mean the away fans sections?

The confusion probably comes because the "Sold Out" signs go out every time, likewise the "Capacity Crowd here at Tynecastle" chat every time - however there are clearly large gaps in the Home end these same matches.

These things tend to confuse - a bit like Celtic attendances.

[son of haggart]

The confusion probably comes because the "Sold Out" signs go out every time, likewise the "Capacity Crowd here at Tynecastle" chat every time - however there are clearly large gaps in the Home end these same matches.

These things tend to confuse - a bit like Celtic attendances.

There's a smattering of seats which are rarely if ever occupied - I'd say between 100 and 300 depending on the game (best bet seems to be they are overseas or long distance supporters who rarely get to games). However we resell about 200 -300 season tickets for people who can't get to the games. I did that with the Ross County game and I know my seat was taken. So for a game like Aberdeen we will sell more tickets than we have seats in the home end, and we probably managed that with Ross County too.

[hibs0666]

There's a smattering of seats which are rarely if ever occupied - I'd say between 100 and 300 depending on the game (best bet seems to be they are overseas or long distance supporters who rarely get to games). However we resell about 200 -300 season tickets for people who can't get to the games. I did that with the Ross County game and I know my seat was taken. So for a game like Aberdeen we will sell more tickets than we have seats in the home end, and we probably managed that with Ross County too.

That's the consequence of playing on a 5hite wee stadium that doubles as a deathtrap.

[jgl07]

There's a smattering of seats which are rarely if ever occupied - I'd say between 100 and 300 depending on the game (best bet seems to be they are overseas or long distance supporters who rarely get to games). However we resell about 200 -300 season tickets for people who can't get to the games. I did that with the Ross County game and I know my seat was taken. So for a game like Aberdeen we will sell more tickets than we have seats in the home end, and we probably managed that with Ross County too.
There are areas of the Main Stand that always seem to be kept empty even in the case of the League Cup semi-final. The ones I am thinking about are towards the Roseburn end. You can see a few stewards in that area but nothing else. Also the paddock below seems to be unoccupied whenever I see matches on television.

Obviously all team have season ticket holders who do not show up for particular matches, especially mid-week games. Some clubs do ticket exchange to allow season ticket holders to be credited with one nineteenth of the cost of their card if their seat is subsequently resold.

[son of haggart]

There are areas of the Main Stand that always seem to be kept empty even in the case of the League Cup semi-final. The ones I am thinking about are towards the Roseburn end. You can see a few stewards in that area but nothing else. Also the paddock below seems to be unoccupied whenever I see matches on television.

Obviously all team have season ticket holders who do not show up for particular matches, especially mid-week games. Some clubs do ticket exchange to allow season ticket holders to be credited with one nineteenth of the cost of their card if their seat is subsequently resold.


We get nothing if they are resold

The seats at the Roseburn end of the main stand have a restricted view after some alterations a few years ago and are never sold, so not counted (one of the reasons we have never exceeded 17200 odd recently, even in derby games with both ends sold out, whereas our official capacity is 17,400 and something -= can't be bothered checking). The bit below hasn't been sold for some time either. The bottom of section H in the Roseburn was unoccupied for most of last season after some fans fell out of favour with Budge and vice-versa .

[Dashing Bob S]

If it is such a great stadium, as they claim, why is nobody advocating that they build the new stand along the same lines as the existing 'absolutely terrible trio?'

Because it's an embarrassing slum would by my immediate guess?

[Criswell]

I've just seen some images of their proposed new Main Stand. If these are accurate, I really can't imagine why they are getting so excited about it. It looks exactly like our, admittedly, budget East Stand. Would have thought a "big-club" like Hearts would have gone for something more impressive than that, something to make it stand out (sorry!) compared to the other ones, something with a little more character, design etc. At Easter Road our Main Stand looks like a Main Stand.

​PS We've got a bigger pitch too!

[greenginger]

http://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/idoxpa-web/files/DEC2744EEA477DCAE61ABCAAA9CDDB1C/pdf/16_03823_FUL-DM_SUB-COMMITTEE_REPORT-3435620.pdf

Planning report into plans for new stand.

Couple of things at first glance, there seems to be no mention of any Tram Contribution to be made as a condition of application grant.

There are also gushing compliments on how the new stadium will be fully UEFA compliant and will allow the stadium to host major international football matches. :confused: Obviously nobody mentioned the pitch size ! :greengrin

[jacomo]

http://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/idoxpa-web/files/DEC2744EEA477DCAE61ABCAAA9CDDB1C/pdf/16_03823_FUL-DM_SUB-COMMITTEE_REPORT-3435620.pdf

Planning report into plans for new stand.

Couple of things at first glance, there seems to be no mention of any Tram Contribution to be made as a condition of application grant.

There are also gushing compliments on how the new stadium will be fully UEFA compliant and will allow the stadium to host major international football matches. :confused: Obviously nobody mentioned the pitch size ! :greengrin

Unless UEFA have relaxed their minimum pitch size regulations, that obviously can't be true.

[Blaster]

Unless UEFA have relaxed their minimum pitch size regulations, that obviously can't be true.

They can play international friendlies I think
Have done already

[jgl07]

Unless UEFA have relaxed their minimum pitch size regulations, that obviously can't be true.
They can play qualifying rounds for European Competitions but not in the Championships proper - Playoffs, Group Stages and beyond.

Hearts would scrape into Category 2 with the minimum pitch size of 100 metres by 64 metres.

You need to be in Category 4 to host main competition European ties. This requires a pitch size of 105 by 68.

Not that Hearts are likely to get that far in the foreseeable future.

[Oscar T Grouch]

They also have a problem with the run off areas or lack of them. They'd have been better selling the dump and moving to the outskirts, in the west, further away from us 😉

[jgl07]

They also have a problem with the run off areas or lack of them. They'd have been better selling the dump and moving to the outskirts, in the west, further away from us 😉
But then they would have to change their name to the Rim of Midlothian or Rimmers for short!

[greenginger]

They can play qualifying rounds for European Competitions but not in the Championships proper - Playoffs, Group Stages and beyond.

Hearts would scrape into Category 2 with the minimum pitch size of 100 metres by 64 metres.

You need to be in Category 4 to host main competition European ties. This requires a pitch size of 105 by 68.

Not that Hearts are likely to get that far in the foreseeable future.


Their pitch isn't even 100 metres. Listed as 107 yards long = 97.84 metres.

But if the keep bullsh*tting " fully UEFA compliant ", it will become a Yam fact.

As for the Tram contribution, Cruden builders had to pay £ 45,667.00 for the trams for their housing development across the road.
That should have been £ 175,000 yam contribution on a pro-rata basis.

Not like our Council to forget to make HOMFC pay what they should be due.

[Springbank]

Their pitch isn't even 100 metres. Listed as 107 yards long = 97.84 metres.

But if the keep bullsh*tting " fully UEFA compliant ", it will become a Yam fact.

As for the Tram contribution, Cruden builders had to pay £ 45,667.00 for the trams for their housing development across the road.
That should have been £ 175,000 yam contribution on a pro-rata basis.

Not like our Council to forget to make HOMFC pay what they should be due.

The irony is this is one of the few new developments in the city that I might get a tram to.

murrayfield tram stop is handy for the roséburn bar and the Hibs end at that ground

** by irony, I of course mean scandal

[jgl07]

Their pitch isn't even 100 metres. Listed as 107 yards long = 97.84 metres.

But if the keep bullsh*tting " fully UEFA compliant ", it will become a Yam fact.


I thought that they had extended the pitch a few years back by taking out a couple of rows of seats from either end?

Obviously by not enough!

[NAE NOOKIE]

http://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/idoxpa-web/files/DEC2744EEA477DCAE61ABCAAA9CDDB1C/pdf/16_03823_FUL-DM_SUB-COMMITTEE_REPORT-3435620.pdf

Planning report into plans for new stand.

Couple of things at first glance, there seems to be no mention of any Tram Contribution to be made as a condition of application grant.

There are also gushing compliments on how the new stadium will be fully UEFA compliant and will allow the stadium to host major international football matches. :confused: Obviously nobody mentioned the pitch size ! :greengrin

Now saying 'document unavailable' on that site ..... could it be that after her visit to a proper stadium Budgie has decided to rip it up and start again? :greengrin

[ian cruise]

The irony is this is one of the few new developments in the city that I might get a tram to.

murrayfield tram stop is handy for the roséburn bar and the Hibs end at that ground

** by irony, I of course mean scandal

Not being Edinburgh based I don't know much about the team works but could it be that because Murrayfield pays the contribution for the part then they wouldn't have to?

[greenginger]

Now saying 'document unavailable' on that site ..... could it be that after her visit to a proper stadium Budgie has decided to rip it up and start again? :greengrin


http://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/idoxpa-web/files/DEC2744EEA477DCAE61ABCAAA9CDDB1C/pdf/16_03823_FUL-DM_SUB-COMMITTEE_REPORT-3435620.pdf

That's the report back up again. I don't know if there is a way to paste it so it does not drop off after a certain length of time.

Any techies out there ?

[greenginger]

Not being Edinburgh based I don't know much about the team works but could it be that because Murrayfield pays the contribution for the part then they wouldn't have to?


The tram contribution rules are any new development with set distances of the tram line pay a tram development cost dependent on the overall cost of the proposed development and the distance from the tram line or tram stop.

Clydesdale tried to argue that he did not know anybody who took the tram to games so they should not have to pay anything.

The traffic survey of journeys to matches ( conducted by themselves ) makes no mention of any tram use by supporters, coincidence eh!

[Bostonhibby]

The tram contribution rules are any new development with set distances of the tram line pay a tram development cost dependent on the overall cost of the proposed development and the distance from the tram line or tram stop.

Clydesdale tried to argue that he did not know anybody who took the tram to games so they should not have to pay anything.

The traffic survey of journeys to matches ( conducted by themselves ) makes no mention of any tram use by supporters, coincidence eh!

Let's work together with your council. Anyone know a yam who uses a tram to get to the game? Council needs to get the chance to test the yams own survey, surely they won't just take their word for it:rolleyes:

[greenginger]

Let's work together with your council. Anyone know a yam who uses a tram to get to the game? Council needs to get the chance to test the yams own survey, surely they won't just take their word for it:rolleyes:


It should not matter if nobody or thousands use the trams . Its all about the proximity to the tram line. Mayybe they've changed the rules since Vlads application, I think they wanted about £ 1 million off of them then.

[Bostonhibby]

It should not matter if nobody or thousands use the trams . Its all about the proximity to the tram line. Mayybe they've changed the rules since Vlads application, I think they wanted about £ 1 million off of them then.

They need watching for yam friendly arrangements. Wonder if the £1m you mention will conveniently disappear as fast as a suitcase full of yam share issue cash.

[TrinityHibs]

It should not matter if nobody or thousands use the trams . Its all about the proximity to the tram line. Mayybe they've changed the rules since Vlads application, I think they wanted about £ 1 million off of them then.

There are two Council booklets available online which relate to tram contributions. Google EDC tram contributions. They both show that Tynecastle lies within the zone which should contribute. The new stand will be categorised as leisure so they should be making a contribution. The calculation is based on distance from the tram in 250m bands up to 750m and the size of the building in question. I don't know how they calculate the figure but if it was 10,000sq m in total (100m x 100m) the contribution would be around £150K if they are in the outer zone. If they are this would be recovered by way of a S.75 agreement which requires all affected landowners to sign and then be registered as a burden is placed on the title. If they have not started the S.75 work this could take a considerable period of time and a consent cannot be issued until the agreement is registered.

[alnewhaven]

Isn't the tram contribution, only if there is a change of use? The original Romanov era plans fell foul of that because it included a hotel.

[greenginger]

There are two Council booklets available online which relate to tram contributions. Google EDC tram contributions. They both show that Tynecastle lies within the zone which should contribute. The new stand will be categorised as leisure so they should be making a contribution. The calculation is based on distance from the tram in 250m bands up to 750m and the size of the building in question. I don't know how they calculate the figure but if it was 10,000sq m in total (100m x 100m) the contribution would be around £150K if they are in the outer zone. If they are this would be recovered by way of a S.75 agreement which requires all affected landowners to sign and then be registered as a burden is placed on the title. If they have not started the S.75 work this could take a considerable period of time and a consent cannot be issued until the agreement is registered.


The Vlad application was for a much larger development, hotel, offices and the rest hence my guess/recollection of £ 1 million contribution.

There was certainly something to pay, see letter Jan 2008,

http://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/idoxpa-web/files/DEC2744EEA477DCAE61ABCAAA9CDDB1C/pdf/16_03823_FUL-DM_SUB-COMMITTEE_REPORT-3435620.pdf

In the planners report there is mention of section 75 agreement and a sum of £ 2000 to be lodged for road stopping up during the construction process.

There is no mention of any section 75 for trams.

They will be paying nowt !!!!

[jgl07]

I have had a look at the drawings in the planning application. I have superimposed the existing stand on the section through the proposed new stand:

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x411/JGL07/Tynecastle_zps0v9egnqv.png (http://s1180.photobucket.com/user/JGL07/media/Tynecastle_zps0v9egnqv.png.html)

It clearly demonstrates that it is not possible to build the top tier of the new stand behind the existing and keep it in operation. Well to be precise it certainly is possible to build the rear portion of the stand and the anciliary accommodation behind the existing stand. However it will not be possible to transfer the season ticket holders from the existing main stand to the upper tier of the new stand and then demolish the old stand. You could actually transfer them but they will not be able to see much if anything.

That means that Hearts will have to relocate for part (or all) of a season or accept reduced capacity for part of a season.

[jacomo]

I have had a look at the drawings in the planning application. I have superimposed the existing stand on the section through the proposed new stand:

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x411/JGL07/Tynecastle_zps0v9egnqv.png (http://s1180.photobucket.com/user/JGL07/media/Tynecastle_zps0v9egnqv.png.html)

It clearly demonstrates that it is not possible to build the top tier of the new stand behind the existing and keep it in operation. Well to be precise it certainly is possible to build the rear portion of the stand and the anciliary accommodation behind the existing stand. However it will not be possible to transfer the season ticket holders from the existing main stand to the upper tier of the new stand and then demolish the old stand. You could actually transfer them but they will not be able to see much if anything.

That means that Hearts will have to relocate for part (or all) of a season or accept reduced capacity for part of a season.

Just adds to the argument that building around the existing stand, rather than demolishing it first, is a dumb idea.

But it's not our dumb idea. Good luck, Jumbos!

[jgl07]

They are planning to build on top and around the old main stand whilst the season is still on then once the last game is played build the bottom half. Don't know th full legistics of how this will happen but season ticket holders at the bus shelter have been told this.

What puzzles me is how can they safely build on top of the asbestos stand!? Especially with people sitting there.
Well they can build behind the old stand. They cannot build around it it as it extends the full distance between the Gorgie Road and Roseburn Stands. They cannot build over it for obvious reasons.

Anne Budge and James Clydesdale know this darned well. There is nothing in the planning application about phased completion. The Hearts Season ticket holders and FoH are being taken as mugs.

The stand is not going to be completed this season unless they are planning to evict a load of season ticket holders in late January. In any event they only have £6 million in place. Anyone who thinks that this can be built for £12 million is deluded. The stand alone would cost at least £15 million before you start adding the meeting rooms and dining facilities on that back would make that figure way too low.

When Hearts put a cap on season ticket sales at the start of a particular season, this will indicate that work is about to start. Until that happens, forget it. The close season is next to nothing to get any work done. The SPFL fixtures do not end until 21 May and the FA Cup Final is not until 27 May. Hearts could well be in action in the Europa Cup action by June 21 as things stand.

[Jack Hackett]

Wll they can build behind the old stand. They cannot build around it it as it extends the full distance between the Gorgie Road and Roseburn Stands. They cannot build over it for obvious reasons.

Anne Budge and James Clydesdale know this darned well. There is nothing in the planning application about phased completion. The Hearts Season ticket holders and FoH are being taken as mugs.

The stand is not going to be completed this season unless they are planning to evict a load of season ticket holders in late January. In any event they only have £6 million in place. Anyone who thinks that this can be built for £12 million is deluded. The stand alone would cost at least £15 million before you start adding the meeting rooms and dining facilities on that back would make that figure way too low.

When Hearts put a cap on season ticket sales at the start of a particular season, this will indicate that work is about to start. Until that happens, forget it. The close season is next to nothing to get any work done. The SPFL fixtures do not end until 21 May and the FA Cup Final is not until 27 May. Hearts could well be in action in the Europa Cup action by June 21 as things stand.

Much as I'd like to see them go over budget and over time, I can't see there being a close season problem. Fixtures after the split can be accommodated with the last couple of games arranged away from home...and the cup final is at Hampden, not that they're likely to be involved. The same can be arranged for the first few games of the new season. Any possible Europa ties can be played at Murrayfield or another ground, giving them from mid/early May to mid August...a full 3 months to finish the front of the stand.

[jgl07]

Much as I'd like to see them go over budget and over time, I can't see there being a close season problem. Fixtures after the split can be accommodated with the last couple of games arranged away from home...and the cup final is at Hampden, not that they're likely to be involved. The same can be arranged for the first few games of the new season. Any possible Europa ties can be played at Murrayfield or another ground, giving them from mid/early May to mid August...a full 3 months to finish the front of the stand.
The question remains as to how the spectators will gain access to the Main Stand while the rear portion is being constructed?

It also is a moot point is how the demolition of the Main Stand can take place with the part constructed new stand right behind it. There would be no way to get machines through. The Main Stand is already tight up against the 'goalpost frames' for the Gorgie Road and Roseburn Stands. It really needs to be demolished from the rear.

I still think that even three months is insufficient time to demolish the main stand, clear up the site, and complete the works. It is more work than Hibs had to do when the East Stand was rebuilt. and that took the best part of six months to complete.

[Itsnoteasy]

The question remains as to how the spectators will gain access to the Main Stand while the rear portion is being constructed?

It also is a moot point is how the demolition of the Main Stand can take place with the part constructed new stand right behind it. There would be no way to get machines through. The Main Stand is already tight up against the 'goalpost frames' for the Gorgie Road and Roseburn Stands. It really needs to be demolished from the rear.

I still think that even three months is insufficient time to demolish the main stand, clear up the site, and complete the works. It is more work than Hibs had to do when the East Stand was rebuilt. and that took the best part of six months to complete.

Also they can't go hung ho and knock it down as a special ist company will be needed to remove all asbestos first. Mainly the roof.

[jacomo]

The question remains as to how the spectators will gain access to the Main Stand while the rear portion is being constructed?

It also is a moot point is how the demolition of the Main Stand can take place with the part constructed new stand right behind it. There would be no way to get machines through. The Main Stand is already tight up against the 'goalpost frames' for the Gorgie Road and Roseburn Stands. It really needs to be demolished from the rear.

I still think that even three months is insufficient time to demolish the main stand, clear up the site, and complete the works. It is more work than Hibs had to do when the East Stand was rebuilt. and that took the best part of six months to complete.

Good points all.

I suppose none of them are insurmountable, but all add costs. It's pretty obvious that building a stand this way - especially on such a constricted site - can only add complexity to the process.

Liverpool built around an existing stand, but am I right in thinking that the original stand stayed in place when completed? A very different proposition.

[jgl07]

The Planning Application seems to have disappeared from the Planning Portal. It may be that the search function is useless. All I could find was a document dating back to 2011 about an application to put up a telecommunications mast. I searched again using the postcode and unearthed the original application from 2008.

Has anyone got a copy of the Chris Robinson 'Not Fit For Purpose' document?

[Dashing Bob S]

Well they can build behind the old stand. They cannot build around it it as it extends the full distance between the Gorgie Road and Roseburn Stands. They cannot build over it for obvious reasons.

Anne Budge and James Clydesdale know this darned well. There is nothing in the planning application about phased completion. The Hearts Season ticket holders and FoH are being taken as mugs.

The stand is not going to be completed this season unless they are planning to evict a load of season ticket holders in late January. In any event they only have £6 million in place. Anyone who thinks that this can be built for £12 million is deluded. The stand alone would cost at least £15 million before you start adding the meeting rooms and dining facilities on that back would make that figure way too low.

When Hearts put a cap on season ticket sales at the start of a particular season, this will indicate that work is about to start. Until that happens, forget it. The close season is next to nothing to get any work done. The SPFL fixtures do not end until 21 May and the FA Cup Final is not until 27 May. Hearts could well be in action in the Europa Cup action by June 21 as things stand.

This is simply not possible.

[CiscoKid]

There are two Council booklets available online which relate to tram contributions. Google EDC tram contributions. They both show that Tynecastle lies within the zone which should contribute. The new stand will be categorised as leisure so they should be making a contribution. The calculation is based on distance from the tram in 250m bands up to 750m and the size of the building in question. I don't know how they calculate the figure but if it was 10,000sq m in total (100m x 100m) the contribution would be around £150K if they are in the outer zone. If they are this would be recovered by way of a S.75 agreement which requires all affected landowners to sign and then be registered as a burden is placed on the title. If they have not started the S.75 work this could take a considerable period of time and a consent cannot be issued until the agreement is registered.

If its the distance as the crow flies it would be between 250m and 750m but if it is the route you would need to walk, which from Murrayfield would have to be by Russel Road and that's a fair walk of more than 1km. I'm really not sure if the trams are that great for getting to Tynecastle, you would be much better on the bus, unless they created a tram stop at Russell Road for match days which would be quite handy but isn't going to happen.

[Albion Hibs]

If its the distance as the crow flies it would be between 250m and 750m but if it is the route you would need to walk, which from Murrayfield would have to be by Russel Road and that's a fair walk of more than 1km. I'm really not sure if the trams are that great for getting to Tynecastle, you would be much better on the bus, unless they created a tram stop at Russell Road for match days which would be quite handy but isn't going to happen.

it should be as the crow flies, and I'm that basis it looks like they will be getting away with it if it is not mentioned in any committee report or consultation response from the relevant department. I guess we should not be surprised given the number of elected folk that are in the council. That said if I was running an application in the area, or the builder over the road that had to pay I would be having words with the council...not that it would make any difference!

[Moulin Yarns]

it should be as the crow flies, and I'm that basis it looks like they will be getting away with it if it is not mentioned in any committee report or consultation response from the relevant department. I guess we should not be surprised given the number of elected folk that are in the council. That said if I was running an application in the area, or the builder over the road that had to pay I would be having words with the council...not that it would make any difference!

Unless the democratic process is different in Edinburgh, I think you will find that the number of elected folk in the Council equals the whole of the City of Edinburgh Council. :wink:

[greenpaper55]

Found this on the Herald but you will have to subscribe to read it all !

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14793704.HSE_fire_fears_over_Hearts__new_Tynecastl e_stand/

[Hibee87]

Found this on the Herald but you will have to subscribe to read it all !

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14793704.HSE_fire_fears_over_Hearts__new_Tynecastl e_stand/


http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/our-region/edinburgh/hearts-ordered-to-disaster-proof-new-stand-1-4254844

Here is a full article on the EEN.

[Moulin Yarns]

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/our-region/edinburgh/hearts-ordered-to-disaster-proof-new-stand-1-4254844

Here is a full article on the EEN.

How are they supposed to protect the new stand for losing a 2 goal lead in the final 10 minutes though??? :confused:

[greenginger]

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/our-region/edinburgh/hearts-ordered-to-disaster-proof-new-stand-1-4254844

Here is a full article on the EEN.


Usual EEN tosh.

There's a planning application in for the work, number 16/03823,dated 20th September.

The work consists of strengthening the corners of the bund walls around the storage tanks and fitting some splash guards.

I'd guess about £ 20,000 worth of work max.

That's just a couple of weeks interest dosh for Mrs B. :greengrin

[jgl07]

Usual EEN tosh.

There's a planning application in for the work, number 16/03823,dated 20th September.

The work consists of strengthening the corners of the bund walls around the storage tanks and fitting some splash guards.

I'd guess about £ 20,000 worth of work max.

That's just a couple of weeks interest dosh for Mrs B. :greengrin
The HSE stated that if the planning application was for a totally new development. they would recommend rejection on the grounds of the ethanol stored at the distillery site. However as it was an existing facility they were prepared to let it go.

http://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/idoxpa-web/files/D856263D3E16443DA9112DE43F8F6EF8/pdf/16_03823_FUL-HSE_CONSULTATION_RESPONSE-3412184.pdf

[lucky]

The puddle drinkers will be gutted that the new PBS will have a capacity of 20099. Still smaller than ER

[1875STEVE]

Health and safety officials have stated that Hearts will need to “disaster proof” their new £12 million stand if the plans are given the green light.

Too late, the whole ****** place is one big massive disaster zone. :agree:

[Brunswickbill]

Found this on the Herald but you will have to subscribe to read it all !

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14793704.HSE_fire_fears_over_Hearts__new_Tynecastl e_stand/

Here's the text of the article

HSE fire fears over Hearts' new Tynecastle stand
11 hrs ago / Brian Donnelly (http://www.heraldscotland.com/author/profile/73722.Brian_Donnelly/), Senior News Reporter / @BrianDonnellyHT (http://www.twitter.com/@BrianDonnellyHT)

HEARTS will have to “disaster-proof” their new £12m main stand rebuild if it is to get the planners’ green-light.
Health and safety chiefs have ordered separate work to protect the Scottish Premiership club's fans should disaster strike and the neighbouring whisky distillers' tanks spill and go up in flames as conditions on a planning application under consideration by Edinburgh City Council.
It is unclear at this stage how much the works will cost and whether the conditions will affect the club's timetable to start work on the new 7,290-seater main stand, which will replace the 1919 stand, in November with completion due next September.
It is understood that the new conditions follow a site visit by the HSE, which admitted the chances of such a disaster taking place are "very remote".
A safety wall dividing the stadium and the distillery has to be bolstered to hold in ethanol used by North British Distillery in the whisky-making process.
Councillors are to vote on the application which officers recommended for approval but with the health and safety conditions list attached at a meeting on Wednesday.
Planners put the conditions onto the application after the Health and Safety Executive “took into account the scenario of a large fire of flammable liquid”.
The HSE will address the public meeting at the council chambers ahead of the vote.
Its concerns centre on the containment of the ethanol tanks in the distillery.
The council report said the HSE said that “while it takes into account the standard safety features expected for the distillery as a major hazard installation, there remains a very remote chance of a major accident”.
The building of the stand will also include a new nursery to replace one currently on council-owned land at the site.
John Bury, council head of planning and transport's report that will be considered by councillors, stated: "If this were new development, for example replacing a derelict brownfield site, the HSE would advise against the granting of planning permission.
"This is because of the sensitive populations involved: the large number of people in the inner zone (in the stand) and nursery.
"The HSE recognises that the football stadium and distillery have operated next to each other for over 100 years.
"It also notes that the bulk ethanol storage has been present since the mid-1990s, with the Wheatfield, Gorgie and Roseburn Stands being granted planning permission prior to this, and prior to the site requiring hazardous substance consent."
Mr Bury continues: "Given the significance of the hazard and the large numbers of additional people using the stand and the vulnerability of the nursery users, it is recommended that a condition is included that requires improvements to the Bond Wall, and that the modified hazardous substances consent, be secured prior to the commencement of any part of the development that would be occupied by these groups."
The report said there was a "reasonable prospect that a modified hazardous substance consent can be put in place".
The total capacity within the stadium would be 20,099 compared with its current capacity of 17,529, an increase of 2,570 seats.
Also in the new stand will be offices, players' and hospitality lounges, a roof terrace, directors' suite, changing and physio rooms and media centre.

[Bostonhibby]

Here's the text of the article

HSE fire fears over Hearts' new Tynecastle stand
11 hrs ago / Brian Donnelly (http://www.heraldscotland.com/author/profile/73722.Brian_Donnelly/), Senior News Reporter / @BrianDonnellyHT (http://www.twitter.com/@BrianDonnellyHT)

HEARTS will have to “disaster-proof” their new £12m main stand rebuild if it is to get the planners’ green-light.
Health and safety chiefs have ordered separate work to protect the Scottish Premiership club's fans should disaster strike and the neighbouring whisky distillers' tanks spill and go up in flames as conditions on a planning application under consideration by Edinburgh City Council.
It is unclear at this stage how much the works will cost and whether the conditions will affect the club's timetable to start work on the new 7,290-seater main stand, which will replace the 1919 stand, in November with completion due next September.
It is understood that the new conditions follow a site visit by the HSE, which admitted the chances of such a disaster taking place are "very remote".
A safety wall dividing the stadium and the distillery has to be bolstered to hold in ethanol used by North British Distillery in the whisky-making process.
Councillors are to vote on the application which officers recommended for approval but with the health and safety conditions list attached at a meeting on Wednesday.
Planners put the conditions onto the application after the Health and Safety Executive “took into account the scenario of a large fire of flammable liquid”.
The HSE will address the public meeting at the council chambers ahead of the vote.
Its concerns centre on the containment of the ethanol tanks in the distillery.
The council report said the HSE said that “while it takes into account the standard safety features expected for the distillery as a major hazard installation, there remains a very remote chance of a major accident”.
The building of the stand will also include a new nursery to replace one currently on council-owned land at the site.
John Bury, council head of planning and transport's report that will be considered by councillors, stated: "If this were new development, for example replacing a derelict brownfield site, the HSE would advise against the granting of planning permission.
"This is because of the sensitive populations involved: the large number of people in the inner zone (in the stand) and nursery.
"The HSE recognises that the football stadium and distillery have operated next to each other for over 100 years.
"It also notes that the bulk ethanol storage has been present since the mid-1990s, with the Wheatfield, Gorgie and Roseburn Stands being granted planning permission prior to this, and prior to the site requiring hazardous substance consent."
Mr Bury continues: "Given the significance of the hazard and the large numbers of additional people using the stand and the vulnerability of the nursery users, it is recommended that a condition is included that requires improvements to the Bond Wall, and that the modified hazardous substances consent, be secured prior to the commencement of any part of the development that would be occupied by these groups."
The report said there was a "reasonable prospect that a modified hazardous substance consent can be put in place".
The total capacity within the stadium would be 20,099 compared with its current capacity of 17,529, an increase of 2,570 seats.
Also in the new stand will be offices, players' and hospitality lounges, a roof terrace, directors' suite, changing and physio rooms and media centre.
Isn't it grand? You'd think there'd be room for a creditors lounge.

Sent from my HTC One mini 2 using Tapatalk

[jacomo]

Isn't it grand? You'd think there'd be room for a creditors lounge.

Sent from my HTC One mini 2 using Tapatalk


Maybe they can name the new building The Tainted Stand?

All food and beverages served with a vague feeling of unease at all the small businesses, charities and community organisations ripped off as Hertz got to where it is today.

[Eyrie]

Isn't it grand? You'd think there'd be room for a creditors lounge.

Sent from my HTC One mini 2 using Tapatalk

Isn't that what the extra 2570 seats are for? Admittedly that's not enough for any of the creditors to bring a guest, but it is a nice gesture of thanks for all the money that was stolen.

[Bostonhibby]

Isn't that what the extra 2570 seats are for? Admittedly that's not enough for any of the creditors to bring a guest, but it is a nice gesture of thanks for all the money that was stolen.


Maybe they can name the new building The Tainted Stand?

All food and beverages served with a vague feeling of unease at all the small businesses, charities and community organisations ripped off as Hertz got to where it is today.

Sadly and entirely in character the club with no shame has moved on without a backward glance and is already rebranding itself as a paragon of virtue.

The smell still lingers though.

[The Falcon]

Sadly and entirely in character the club with no shame has moved on without a backward glance and is already rebranding itself as a paragon of virtue.

The smell still lingers though.

:agree:

Now claiming that any business that they were in debt to has been paid as well as all charities money reimbursed.

I am not up on the technicalities but did they not simply invoice Big Hearts for rental of a building roughly the same amount that they borrowed?

One Yam mentioned to me that it was a pity Vlad had not just built the stand because the debt would have been written off with the rest.

As you say the rebranding and rewriting of history continues unabated as it does in the West. Shameless the pair of them.

[Bostonhibby]

:agree:

Now claiming that any business that they were in debt to has been paid as well as all charities money reimbursed.

I am not up on the technicalities but did they not simply invoice Big Hearts for rental of a building roughly the same amount that they borrowed?

One Yam mentioned to me that it was a pity Vlad had not just built the stand because the debt would have been written off with the rest.

As you say the rebranding and rewriting of history continues unabated as it does in the West. Shameless the pair of them.
Football debts had to be repaid as a condition of them being able to play, as one poster already said someone was embarrassed enough to pay the poppy fund for them. They may have worked a trick for big hearts but they were published on their OWN creditors list.

No one else was paid. Surely it would be all over the news if they had paid up.

Sent from my HTC One mini 2 using Tapatalk

[greenginger]

:agree:

Now claiming that any business that they were in debt to has been paid as well as all charities money reimbursed.

I am not up on the technicalities but did they not simply invoice Big Hearts for rental of a building roughly the same amount that they borrowed?

One Yam mentioned to me that it was a pity Vlad had not just built the stand because the debt would have been written off with the rest.

As you say the rebranding and rewriting of history continues unabated as it does in the West. Shameless the pair of them.


Yep, it was the Yam loving administrator Bryan Jackson of BDO who came up with that rouse.

He then forgot to have an analysis of non-connected creditor votes for their CVA. Such a count would have discounted the Ukio Bankas vote in favour of the CVA ,and left the HMRC as the major creditor voting against .

[Bostonhibby]

Yep, it was the Yam loving administrator Bryan Jackson of BDO who came up with that rouse.

He then forgot to have an analysis of non-connected creditor votes for their CVA. Such a count would have discounted the Ukio Bankas vote in favour of the CVA ,and left the HMRC as the major creditor voting against .
But, but didn't some yam somewhere say they had paid all their creditors[emoji6]

They really do erse it all up when it comes to their debts and payment of same!

Sent from my HTC One mini 2 using Tapatalk

[greenginger]

But, but didn't some yam somewhere say they had paid all their creditors[emoji6]

They really do erse it all up when it comes to their debts and payment of same!

Sent from my HTC One mini 2 using Tapatalk


They paid all the football creditors, ie player wages , other club debts and the like. More accurately Foundation of Hearts paid those debts and only because it was a SFA condition of granting them a football licence.

Our Council, HMRC , health boards and the rest got zilch.

[Bostonhibby]

They paid all the football creditors, ie player wages , other club debts and the like. More accurately Foundation of Hearts paid those debts and only because it was a SFA condition of granting them a football licence.

Our Council, HMRC , health boards and the rest got zilch.
Yep, unpaid football debt meant no license to play football. They paid what they had to the rest got hertzd.

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[JT Fae The Toon]

Approval granted by the Council.

[AltheHibby]

On Radio Scotland at the weekend they were discussing St Mirren and said that Hertz were an example of the way forward as they had got out of their debt and St Mirren needed to do the same!

[Cabbage East]

Approval granted by the Council.

Approval to dinghy charities out of money? Not sure that's within their remit.

[660]

Approval granted by the Council.

Presumably you've disaster proofed it by banning Paul Hanlon.

[Ozyhibby]

Approval granted by the Council.

It was always going to be approved as there is nothing controversial about it. It looks like a bog standard stand. Probably slightly higher spec than our east but not as good as our main stand. There was nothing really for the council to object to.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bostonhibby]

Approval granted by the Council.
Poppies in the avatar? Really?

Sent from my HTC One mini 2 using Tapatalk

[jacomo]

:agree:

Now claiming that any business that they were in debt to has been paid as well as all charities money reimbursed.

I am not up on the technicalities but did they not simply invoice Big Hearts for rental of a building roughly the same amount that they borrowed?

One Yam mentioned to me that it was a pity Vlad had not just built the stand because the debt would have been written off with the rest.

As you say the rebranding and rewriting of history continues unabated as it does in the West. Shameless the pair of them.

Vlad never built it because he never got planning permission for his fantasy hotel project and was stringing them along.

We all know they didn't pay their debts!

[silverhibee]

Football debts had to be repaid as a condition of them being able to play, as one poster already said someone was embarrassed enough to pay the poppy fund for them. They may have worked a trick for big hearts but they were published on their OWN creditors list.

No one else was paid. Surely it would be all over the news if they had paid up.

Sent from my HTC One mini 2 using Tapatalk

Have they paid Edinburgh Council yet, and if not why have Scott & co not closed the place down yet for not keeping up council tax payments.

[Moulin Yarns]

Plans to rebuild the main stand at Tynecastle football stadium have been approved by Edinburgh city council.
About £11m will be spent on the upgrade at the Hearts ground. The current main stand was built in 1919.
The club hopes work will begin next month.
Hearts owner Ann Budge said last month that she hoped the work would be completed in September 2017. The new stand will increase the capacity to more than 7,200 from 4,720.


Love the BBC headline

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-37631654

[sbell1875]

It is my (albeit limited) understanding that the capacity of the PBS will still be less than ER even after development.

So much for being the big club eh.

[jgl07]

It is my (albeit limited) understanding that the capacity of the PBS will still be less than ER even after development.

So much for being the big club eh.
I am surprised that not more is being made of this. Hearts appear to (virtually) sell out their existing capacity, so it will not be long before they are filling their modestly expanded ground.

Once this stand is complete there will be no prospects of further expansion. With the 'goal post' stands used it is not possible to fill in the corners. There would appear to be little scope for expanding any of the other stands so that will be it.

They would still have a stadium that hasn't got the pitch size or the run off areas to be UEFA compliant. So only Qualifying Rounds of UEFA competitions could be played there. Play-offs, Group Stages and Knock-out stages would have to be played elsewhere, presumably Murrayfield.

Spending this amount of money on a stadium. that as Chris Robinson observed 15 years ago is not fit for purpose, doesn't seem a sensible approach especially for an ambitious club who certainly have the fan base to go further.

Easter Road has plenty of scope for expansion, if needed. It would be easy to fill in at least two of the corners and improve the atmosphere as well. It is technically feasible to put a third tier on the West Stand as was mooted for the European Championship bid.

[Since90+2]

So still a smaller capacity than Easter Road once redeveloped? Class.

They will pretend it wont bother them but we all know deep down they will be gutted by that. Pleasing.

[silverhibee]

Football debts had to be repaid as a condition of them being able to play, as one poster already said someone was embarrassed enough to pay the poppy fund for them. They may have worked a trick for big hearts but they were published on their OWN creditors list.

No one else was paid. Surely it would be all over the news if they had paid up.

Sent from my HTC One mini 2 using Tapatalk

Have they paid Edinburgh Council yet, and if not why have Scott & co not closed the place down yet for not keeping up council tax payments.

[CropleyWasGod]

Have they paid Edinburgh Council yet, and if not why have Scott & co not closed the place down yet for not keeping up council tax payments.

You mean rates?

Are they behind on them, or do you mean from the pre-admin days? If it's the latter, they were wiped as a result of the CVA.

[Suburban Hibby]

Have no problem whatsoever with them getting permission- the fun is when they have to stump up 11 million......

[Bostonhibby]

Have no problem whatsoever with them getting permission- the fun is when they have to stump up 11 million......
Yep, looking forward to it kicking off. If it's ever completed it will just be the one stand. Two and a half to go

Sent from my HTC One mini 2 using Tapatalk

[patlowe]

No idea how it's being funded but if they can fill the additional capacity then they'll make the money back relatively quickly.

[Dashing Bob S]

So still a smaller capacity than Easter Road once redeveloped? Class.

They will pretend it wont bother them but we all know deep down they will be gutted by that. Pleasing.

It will do more than bother them. It will completely gut a delusional self image and fragile self esteem ('the big team') based on nothing but a generation of overspending and financial doping.

This is huge blow to their collective psyche and exposes their limitations as a club. Expect their cultural tone to change from boastful arrogance to plucky defiance from here on in.

As their own song goes: 'way down in Gorgie at Tynecastle Park, there's a WEE fitba team..."

Indeed there is.

[KeithTheHibby]

Approval granted by the Council.

Bet you had a wee chubby as you were typing that.

[Betty Boop]

You mean rates?

Are they behind on them, or do you mean from the pre-admin days? If it's the latter, they were wiped as a result of the CVA.
Really ? Is that the same case with council tax debt then ?

[CropleyWasGod]

Really ? Is that the same case with council tax debt then ?

Yeah, really... all unsecured debts were wiped. Only the football ones were paid, and that's to get their football licence; by law, there was no requirement to pay them.

Not sure what you mean about the CT. That's normally paid by individuals, and individuals don't have CVA's. If they're bankrupted, though, depending on the circumstances, debts can be written off in part or in full.

[scoopyboy]

No idea how it's being funded but if they can fill the additional capacity then they'll make the money back relatively quickly.

I can't see how you arrive at that to be honest.

If their attendance is one above their current capacity then they will repay back in the region of £25 quid.

At that rate they would require 480,000 people above their current capacity to pay off the £12 million.

That would equate to 192 matches at the new capacity figure to wipe it out.

So if they had 25 home games a season and they all sold out it would take eight seasons.

Given they ain't selling out now I don't see that stand paying for itself for a long, long time.

The above hasn't included any interest repayments due to Ann Budge or anyone else they might have to pay interest to in an effort to gain funds.

[patlowe]

I can't see how you arrive at that to be honest.

If their attendance is one above their current capacity then they will repay back in the region of £25 quid.

At that rate they would require 480,000 people above their current capacity to pay off the £12 million.

That would equate to 192 matches at the new capacity figure to wipe it out.

So if they had 25 home games a season and they all sold out it would take eight seasons.

Given they ain't selling out now I don't see that stand paying for itself for a long, long time.

The above hasn't included any interest repayments due to Ann Budge or anyone else they might have to pay interest to in an effort to gain funds.

I personally don't think eight years is a long time in the grand scheme of things. Plus I'm assuming there will be other revenue streams associated with the new stand and better facilities will only encourage more people along.

I'm not willing it to be a success :bitchy:I just think if they can find the money then it's a no-brainer to build it.

[Kato]

Didn't take them long to start tinkering with the plans. Rumours that they have added in a new John Robertson Lounge. The new lounge will be built over and around the existing John Robertson Lounge then the old one demolished once building is complete so as not impact on councillors scranning huge amounts of free pies.

[jacomo]

I can't see how you arrive at that to be honest.

If their attendance is one above their current capacity then they will repay back in the region of £25 quid.

At that rate they would require 480,000 people above their current capacity to pay off the £12 million.

That would equate to 192 matches at the new capacity figure to wipe it out.

So if they had 25 home games a season and they all sold out it would take eight seasons.

Given they ain't selling out now I don't see that stand paying for itself for a long, long time.

The above hasn't included any interest repayments due to Ann Budge or anyone else they might have to pay interest to in an effort to gain funds.

What state will those other stands be in 8 years' time?

Tynecastle looks like a stadium built on the cheap.

[scoopyboy]

I personally don't think eight years is a long time in the grand scheme of things. Plus I'm assuming there will be other revenue streams associated with the new stand and better facilities will only encourage more people along.

I'm not willing it to be a success :bitchy:I just think if they can find the money then it's a no-brainer to build it.

Eight years was based on them selling out 25 games a season, which obviously I hope they don't do.

You are right in that they will bring in other revenue streams but if AB loans £6million @ 6% that is £360,000 pa which the other revenue streams would do well to cancel out.

It is a no-brainer to build it because if they didn't the current stand would eventually lose its safety certificate.

I'm glad they got permission because this will surely hold them back from pumping money into their team.

[Andy74]

It will be a manky hole before and after this is built.

[jacomo]

Eight years was based on them selling out 25 games a season, which obviously I hope they don't do.

You are right in that they will bring in other revenue streams but if AB loans £6million @ 6% that is £360,000 pa which the other revenue streams would do well to cancel out.

It is a no-brainer to build it because if they didn't the current stand would eventually lose its safety certificate.

I'm glad they got permission because this will surely hold them back from pumping money into their team.

Will it stop Levein pumping the Budgie though?

'Och Craig, enough of this carry on, I've got a meeting with builders in five minutes!'

[Caversham Green]

:agree:

Now claiming that any business that they were in debt to has been paid as well as all charities money reimbursed.

I am not up on the technicalities but did they not simply invoice Big Hearts for rental of a building roughly the same amount that they borrowed?

One Yam mentioned to me that it was a pity Vlad had not just built the stand because the debt would have been written off with the rest.

As you say the rebranding and rewriting of history continues unabated as it does in the West. Shameless the pair of them.

They didn't have to - they used an anomaly in accounting regulations.

Charities are not allowed to account for donations until they have actually been received so there was never a debtor in the charity's records. Therefore when BDO asked them how much was owed the reply could only be nil, even though HoMFC had collected money ostensibly in the charity's name and used it to pay for their footballing ambitions.

Of course it helped that the HoMFC and the charity both had the same MD.

[Kojock]

Will it stop Levein pumping the Budgie though?

'Och Craig, enough of this carry on, I've got a meeting with builders in five minutes!'

One things for sure she won't have any problems with the painters.

[Bostonhibby]

They didn't have to - they used an anomaly in accounting regulations.

Charities are not allowed to account for donations until they have actually been received so there was never a debtor in the charity's records. Therefore when BDO asked them how much was owed the reply could only be nil, even though HoMFC had collected money ostensibly in the charity's name and used it to pay for their footballing ambitions.

Of course it helped that the HoMFC and the charity both had the same MD.
Probably explains why they owned up to bumping big hearts out of however many thousands it was when they published their creditors list then removed the entry later.

The money was obviously "resting" in their account before finding its way to the charity.

If you believe that you'll also believe they will win the champions league by 2008 and the megasuperhotel stadium will already be built.

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[Bostonhibby]

Didn't take them long to start tinkering with the plans. Rumours that they have added in a new John Robertson Lounge. The new lounge will be built over and around the existing John Robertson Lounge then the old one demolished once building is complete so as not impact on councillors scranning huge amounts of free pies.
If they're going for a complete upgrade then surely the new one will be the John Robertson kiosk.

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[Jonnyboy]

Plans to rebuild the main stand at Tynecastle football stadium have been approved by Edinburgh city council.
About £11m will be spent on the upgrade at the Hearts ground. The current main stand was built in 1919.
The club hopes work will begin next month.
Hearts owner Ann Budge said last month that she hoped the work would be completed in September 2017. The new stand will increase the capacity to more than 7,200 from 4,720.


Love the BBC headline

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-37631654

I could have sworn their big wooden bus shelter was built in 1914?

[Caversham Green]

Probably explains why they owned up to bumping big hearts out of however many thousands it was when they published their creditors list then removed the entry later.

The money was obviously "resting" in their account before finding its way to the charity.

If you believe that you'll also believe they will win the champions league by 2008 and the megasuperhotel stadium will already be built.

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The first list was published by HoMFC before BDO were appointed and correctly showed that they owed that money to the charity - they might have claimed it was resting in their account, but in fact it was long gone, spent to buy cup wins and league places.

The second list was published by BDO after they had circulated the creditors. The charity had no record of a debtor (since it couldn't account for donations that it hadn't received) and so had to advise BDO that there was no debt in its records.

[.Sean.]

I canny believe this has merited a 16-page thread. And we call th obsessed.

Its a *****hole now and it'll be a *****hole with more seats once the new tin can's up and that's all that really needs said.

[Billy Whizz]

I canny believe this has merited a 16-page thread. And we call th obsessed.

Its a *****hole now and it'll be a *****hole with more seats once the new tin can's up and that's all that really needs said.

Maybe, but will be interesting to see the reaction on here and kickback, when they decide where to play their home games at the start of next season😄

[Danderhall Hibs]

I canny believe this has merited a 16-page thread. And we call th obsessed.

Its a *****hole now and it'll be a *****hole with more seats once the new tin can's up and that's all that really needs said.

Only 5 pages on my phone. Update your settings to 100 posts per page.

[Col2]

Fair play. They have designed a new stand and now got it approved. Budge gets a lot of credit for delivering this. It's difficult to argue with any of this.

Now for once they actually need to pay for something rather than rack up the debt and write it off. I would expect Hearts to have some impact on player budget and player sales as a consequence, not a drastic reduction but they will not get near challenging the ugly sisters and will remain behind Aberdeen.

At the same time we should be up in top league and investing in our team with crowds averaging 15k+. Any advantage they had over us will be gone for next few years and the Holy Grail for us has been delivered.

Next few years should be interesting.

[sbell1875]

I was in the Wheatfield Stand for the recent Scotland under 21 match and I have to say that Tynecastle really isn't in the best of nick.

Simply inadequate turnstiles.
Bordering on extremely dangerous metal steps to the main concourse area.
An inadequate number of exits from the seating areas.
Cramped and uncomfortable seats.

Yes it does make for an intimidating atmosphere and a pretty good match experience (only when I'm watching Hibs mind!) but it really is a pure hole of a stadium.

[Kavinho]

I can't see how you arrive at that to be honest.

If their attendance is one above their current capacity then they will repay back in the region of £25 quid.

At that rate they would require 480,000 people above their current capacity to pay off the £12 million.

That would equate to 192 matches at the new capacity figure to wipe it out.

So if they had 25 home games a season and they all sold out it would take eight seasons.

Given they ain't selling out now I don't see that stand paying for itself for a long, long time.

The above hasn't included any interest repayments due to Ann Budge or anyone else they might have to pay interest to in an effort to gain funds.

And also assumes 25 quid a seat, which would not account for concession seats

[Kavinho]

And also assumes 25 quid a seat, which would not account for concession seats



To be fair, the claim is half of it is already raised, no?

[Bostonhibby]

Fair play. They have designed a new stand and now got it approved. Budge gets a lot of credit for delivering this. It's difficult to argue with any of this.

Now for once they actually need to pay for something rather than rack up the debt and write it off. I would expect Hearts to have some impact on player budget and player sales as a consequence, not a drastic reduction but they will not get near challenging the ugly sisters and will remain behind Aberdeen.

At the same time we should be up in top league and investing in our team with crowds averaging 15k+. Any advantage they had over us will be gone for next few years and the Holy Grail for us has been delivered.

Next few years should be interesting.
Budge delivers it, the plums pay for it, never never at 6% interest to budge.

Not one share lands in a six fingered hand.

Meantime budge starts talking about something less than total fan ownership and appointing her own successor.

They never really fight for their club, they just cough up cash when required.

Big team, small stadium

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[greenlex]

What's the point in building eufa standard media doo das when they can't play eufa games there? Idiots.

[judas]

I find this thread to be genuinely embarrassing.

Hearts are building a new stand. Get over it move on and stop feeding the Jambos Sickbag site.

[jgl07]

I can't see how you arrive at that to be honest.

If their attendance is one above their current capacity then they will repay back in the region of £25 quid.

At that rate they would require 480,000 people above their current capacity to pay off the £12 million.

That would equate to 192 matches at the new capacity figure to wipe it out.

So if they had 25 home games a season and they all sold out it would take eight seasons.

Given they ain't selling out now I don't see that stand paying for itself for a long, long time.

The above hasn't included any interest repayments due to Ann Budge or anyone else they might have to pay interest to in an effort to gain funds.
If we are doing comparisons the key thing is that it's not the extra 3,500 seats that is key but the whole capacity of the new stand that should be used. The current stand will be shut down if they do not rebuild it soon. They have no option.

[Bostonhibby]

I find this thread to be genuinely embarrassing.

Hearts are building a new stand. Get over it move on and stop feeding the Jambos Sickbag site.
Your representations on behalf of those who don't fancy having a laugh at the yams expense have been noted.

Easy to ignore[emoji6]

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[Carheenlea]

It's a pity the new stand at Tynecastle will see the capacity fall short of that at Easter Road, as huge entertainment would be had if they did indeed have the larger of the two stadiums.
I'm sure most Hibs fans could not care less about a few hundred seats difference as to who's ground is bigger, but to Hearts, to have the larger ground would be a huge thing for them, and you could guarantee a mention of the fact by Scott Wilson at every home game, mentions every week in their programme, mentions on their website, songs sung by their fans celebrating the fact.
I'm disappointed they won't overtake our total for those very reasons.

[jacomo]

I find this thread to be genuinely embarrassing.

Hearts are building a new stand. Get over it move on and stop feeding the Jambos Sickbag site.

The irony of pouring over a thread on Hibs.net about their stand to 'prove' we are obsessed will of course be lost on them.

This really is the continuation of a story that started 13 years ago when Scottish football finances collapsed. At that time, both Hibs and Hearts were in very similar situations.

We cut our cloth, have paid a high price at times, but today have a rebuilt stadium and a clear conscience.

Hearts went down a different path. I'm interested to see how it plays out and Kickback is frankly an irrelevance to me. Even Hearts fans ooze with cringe at that bunch of fools.

[Bostonhibby]

The irony of pouring over a thread on Hibs.net about their stand to 'prove' we are obsessed will of course be lost on them.

This really is the continuation of a story that started 13 years ago when Scottish football finances collapsed. At that time, both Hibs and Hearts were in very similar situations.

We cut our cloth, have paid a high price at times, but today have a rebuilt stadium and a clear conscience.

Hearts went down a different path. I'm interested to see how it plays out and Kickback is frankly an irrelevance to me. Even Hearts fans ooze with cringe at that bunch of fools.
[emoji106]

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[theonlywayisup]

We cut our cloth, have paid a high price at times, but today have a rebuilt stadium, a clear conscience AND THE SCOTTISH CUP.



Corrected that for you!!!!

[jacomo]

Corrected that for you!!!!


I approve this correction!

[O'Rourke3]

To be fair, the claim is half of it is already raised, no?

Pretty sure the claims a while back was they had 3 of the £6M they needed. In between times they have revealed they are building round and over the Asbesdos Dome, putting in state of the are hospitality and a roof terrace and all foe a paltry £11M

[GreenLake]

I find this thread to be genuinely embarrassing.

Hearts are building a new stand. Get over it move on and stop feeding the Jambos Sickbag site.

But not enough to distance yourself from it.

[Dashing Bob S]

I find this thread to be genuinely embarrassing.

Hearts are building a new stand. Get over it move on and stop feeding the Jambos Sickbag site.

I saw what you did there. It was embarrassing and crap, then you came along and saved it. If you want praise for that, you've come to the right place. :thumbsup: :top marks:not worth

[majorhibs]

I canny believe this has merited a 16-page thread. And we call th obsessed.

Its a *****hole now and it'll be a *****hole with more seats once the new tin can's up and that's all that really needs said.


I find this thread to be genuinely embarrassing.

Hearts are building a new stand. Get over it move on and stop feeding the Jambos Sickbag site.

Hearts, what they, the support, have done, who they try & blame, what they were & are now trying & lying to be, what many posts on this thread have opened up & enlightened upon, sorry lads, you dinnae like, then spend even MORE time on "kickback".

[silverhibee]

"Tell all the yams you know"

[SuperAllyMcleod]

I was in the Wheatfield Stand for the recent Scotland under 21 match and I have to say that Tynecastle really isn't in the best of nick.

Simply inadequate turnstiles.
Bordering on extremely dangerous metal steps to the main concourse area.
An inadequate number of exits from the seating areas.
Cramped and uncomfortable seats.

Yes it does make for an intimidating atmosphere and a pretty good match experience (only when I'm watching Hibs mind!) but it really is a pure hole of a stadium.

All very true and this is one of the stands that they are leaving up!

What amazes me is that the jumbos genuinely believe that we are jealous of their new stand as we will then have to acknowledge that they have a better stadium???

Anyone with a brain would look at the two stadiums and have no trouble seeing which one looked better, offers a greater degree of comfort and is in better condition.

You can admire their loyalty but not their blind loyalty.

[Thecat23]

What about the other 3 tin pot stands. Place is falling to bits. Oh as for the new one..meh!

[ian cruise]

Fair play. They have designed a new stand and now got it approved. Budge gets a lot of credit for delivering this. It's difficult to argue with any of this.

Now for once they actually need to pay for something rather than rack up the debt and write it off. I would expect Hearts to have some impact on player budget and player sales as a consequence, not a drastic reduction but they will not get near challenging the ugly sisters and will remain behind Aberdeen.

At the same time we should be up in top league and investing in our team with crowds averaging 15k+. Any advantage they had over us will be gone for next few years and the Holy Grail for us has been delivered.

Next few years should be interesting.

I'm not sure they will have to reduce their player budget as I do t believe they are paying that much on players as is. I don't pay that much attention to them but I got the impression their team was homegrown and free transfers. I think the work will stop them growing their budget for players but not sure it will reduce too much, if at all.

[Betty Boop]

Yeah, really... all unsecured debts were wiped. Only the football ones were paid, and that's to get their football licence; by law, there was no requirement to pay them.

Not sure what you mean about the CT. That's normally paid by individuals, and individuals don't have CVA's. If they're bankrupted, though, depending on the circumstances, debts can be written off in part or in full.
Interesting because the Council claimed CT debt going back years from its own workers, when equal pay claims were paid.

[Biggie]

Todays paper stating £3m in benefactors will help pay for the new stand.......where were they when they were bumping creditors left right and centre......they really are jammy *******s

[CropleyWasGod]

Interesting because the Council claimed CT debt going back years from its own workers, when equal pay claims were paid.

Solvent workers, though. Not bankrupted ones.

[CropleyWasGod]

Todays paper stating £3m in benefactors will help pay for the new stand.......where were they when they were bumping creditors left right and centre......they really are jammy *******s

£3m wouldn't have gone very far in their admin.:greengrin

In any event, were I a "rich benefactor", WTF that is, I wouldn't been chucking my hard-earned down a Bosnian stank. Helping to fund a new stand at least gives the donors a legacy.

[Moulin Yarns]

£3m wouldn't have gone very far in their admin.:greengrin

In any event, were I a "rich benefactor", WTF that is, I wouldn't been chucking my hard-earned down a Bosnian stank. Helping to fund a new stand at least gives the donors a legacy.

Wonder if it is a debenture scheme? the legacy to pay more for a seat with a view of the castle :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

Wonder if it is a debenture scheme? the legacy to pay more for a seat with a view of the castle :greengrin

Could be a selling point. Many's the day atop the old East terracing where the view of Arthur's Seat was infinitely better than the mince on the park....

[NAE NOOKIE]

Could be a selling point. Many's the day atop the old East terracing where the view of Arthur's Seat was infinitely better than the mince on the park....

Aye ... but with Hibs fans that's a joke. At Tynecastle they are so worried about the product on the park their executive / hospitality area actually wont face the pitch .... classic :faf:

[Moulin Yarns]

Could be a selling point. Many's the day atop the old East terracing where the view of Arthur's Seat was infinitely better than the mince on the park....

You and me both. And the days in the pouring rain, with groups of fans huddled under golf umbrellas. Football just ain't fun anymore.

[southsider]

I'm not sure they will have to reduce their player budget as I do t believe they are paying that much on players as is. I don't pay that much attention to them but I got the impression their team was homegrown and free transfers. I think the work will stop them growing their budget for players but not sure it will reduce too much, if at all.
Wait until Brexit kicks in. Building Trade materials to rise almost 20% in the short term due to weakness of Sterling.

[green day]

Todays paper stating £3m in benefactors will help pay for the new stand.......where were they when they were bumping creditors left right and centre......they really are jammy *******s

That's part of the £6m they (say they already) have.

They still have to fund another £6m.

[CropleyWasGod]

That's part of the £6m they (say they already) have.

They still have to fund another £6m.

That's not the way I read the EEN story.

£3m from FOH, £3m from Benny Factors, and they claim they have most of the rest of £6m themselves. "The remaining £6m will mostly come from cash set aside by Hearts, with a minor shortfall still to be made up."

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-net-3m-from-benefactors-for-new-main-stand-1-4256494

[green day]

That's not the way I read the EEN story.

£3m from FOH, £3m from Benny Factors, and they claim they have most of the rest of £6m themselves. "The remaining £6m will mostly come from cash set aside by Hearts, with a minor shortfall still to be made up."

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-net-3m-from-benefactors-for-new-main-stand-1-4256494

Sorry, hadn't read it. Story a few months ago was that they had a missing £6m and that some of that was from FoH.

I simply don't believe they have scraped £12m together, benefactors or not.

I.e. how did they "set aside" £millions??

[greenlex]

.

how did they "set aside" £millions??
Just bump the tax man, a few local. businesses and some charities. Jobs a good un

[GreenLake]

Todays paper stating £3m in benefactors will help pay for the new stand.......where were they when they were bumping creditors left right and centre......they really are jammy *******s


Might be why the change of tune on fan ownership proportions suddenly coming down from 75% to 25% so these benefactors can have a significant share holding. FOH on 25% (eventually), Budge 51% and a few Benefactors with the other 25% might be the outcome. I can't see benefactors handing over more than Budge did for nothing in return.

They might be innovating in being the first Scottish club to be controlled by benefannies.