Help Find An Identity For Scottish Football

[Dan Sarf]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/14726547.Hibs_chief_executive_Leeann_Dempster___We _need_an_identity_for_the_game_in_Scotland__/

Leeann Dempster in the Herald: "I believe the next step is to build a narrative for Scottish football and that will involve everyone – not just one club or a few doing their thing. You look at other leagues and there’s a story there, they’re either the richest league, the best league or whatever... We need an identity for the game in Scotland and I think we’re in a strong position to find that... There’s a huge enthusiasm for football in Scotland, the crowds we get and the participation levels in the sport... Often we focus on money, and of course that’s important, but there’s a story to be told about football... In Scotland there’s an interaction between football and social life and bigger community life. We work on it individually as clubs but we don’t do anything collectively. That subject is something which I find really interesting and am keen to work on it because I think it could be beneficial for a long, long time."

Any serious suggestions (i.e. putting understandable cynicism aside)?

[Spudster]

Summer football. Given our proximity to England we need to be an alternative not a competitor.
If it means getting their crumbs financially so be it, £8.3Bn is a hell of alot of crumbs!

[green&left]

Summer football. Given our proximity to England we need to be an alternative not a competitor.
If it means getting their crumbs financially so be it, £8.3Bn is a hell of alot of crumbs!

Aye great idea. Chase TV revenue again cos its not like thats ****ed us up before.



Stop comparing our nations football league to that of Germany, Italy, Spain and England might be a start.

[Since90+2]

Scottish Football is more "real" than the big money leagues and that is our selling point IMO.

Look at the Scottish cup final where we had 2 born and bred Hibees at center half who have supported the club their whole life. You also had local lads like Gray and Cummings , albeit they are from the other side of the city if you like , in the starting eleven.

When you go to a Hibs game you are standing watching the game with people you grew up with , people from your area , your school ect so it has that local connection.

I think alot of Hibs fans probably have a genuine connection to the club either through knowing a player , someone who works at the club ,knowing previous players ect which you just wont get at clubs like Man Utd , Chelsea ect. Our players are also approachable and seem to live a normal life compared to the guys in England.

I think a lot of us of the younger generation look back at football in the 70s and 80s with envy but atleast Scottish football resembles that era compared to English Premiership where the sport is almost unrecognisable.

[Just Alf]

3rd post and cynicism has reared its napper!

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

[MyJo]

At the moment scottish footballs unique selling point amounts to the old firm, and thats it as far as anyone in the SFA and SPFL care.

if we want to change things and become known for something other than a bigotry fuelled rivalry and stupid mid-season league split then the administrators of our game need to grow a backbone and stop cowtowing to the old firm at every opportunity.

[SlickShoes]

It's a nice thought but it will always end up with the OF being the focus now, the only way things will change is when they aren't around. That also won't happen because Europes elite have left the OF well and truly behind.

[NAE NOOKIE]

The big thing that Hibs are focused on is community and more than a few clubs in Scotland seem keen to go down the same route.

The first thing that we should be working hard on is to make supporting your local club the natural thing to do, to make pride in your town and pride in your towns club one and the same thing. The biggest problem Scottish clubs face is the leeching of their support to the Old Firm, not just as active OF supporters, but thousands of armchair OF supporters. I can never reconcile with someone born and bred in Edinburgh who espouses undying love for their beautiful city kicking that city in the baws by supporting a club from the other side of the country. One of our most famous sons is a case in point, even worse he never seemed able to make his mind up which Glasgow team to support, it was Celtic park one minute, Ibrox the next. Has anybody ever seen him at ER or the PBS?

The other thing our clubs need to address ( here he goes again ) is facilities. Hibs are able to make a significant community contribution because we have an excellent stadium and training facilities which can be used for the communities benefit. But we are the exception not the rule, social stuff aside how can you expect to attract new fans to grounds when half of them are crumbling ruins and even the newer ones appear to be designed with no consideration given to atmosphere. I fail to see how watching a game at ICT's ground for example can be an experience, its a hole and a 3 sided hole at that.

In the entertainment industry image is a huge thing and I cant for the life of me see why football should be any different. One of the first things Leanne Dempster and her colleagues on the SPFL board should be looking to address along with the SFA is the shambles that most of our grounds are in ... Like it or not kids watch the EPL and La Liga and make comparisons, how can you expect them to be inspired to go along to the likes of Partick or ICT when it all looks so bloody small time with their run down 3 sided grounds and how can you attract players who are swithering between Scotland and elsewhere .... more than one player has expressed similar views, not least of all Derek Riordan who famously said it wasn't exactly inspirational running out at Hamilton with its 2 stands.

Nobody is looking for clubs to build super stadiums, but surely even chucking up a 2,000 capacity stand that runs the length of a touchline is better than having an open space. No they wont get used all the time, but if Falkirk had had such a thing at the start of the season we could probably have filled it and Falkirk would have made at least another £30,000 from that one game and empty or not a stand still looks better on the telly than a huge open space.
I fail to see why the clubs cant get together and find a way to raise money that will enable everybody to improve their infrastructure ..... I wont go on about the Commonwealth games again, but if they can squeeze the government for hundreds of millions I fail to see why football shouldn't try to find a way to get the much smaller sum it would take to improve our stadiums, at least in the premier league and for clubs about to enter the premier league.

[jgl07]

Summer football. Given our proximity to England we need to be an alternative not a competitor.
If it means getting their crumbs financially so be it, £8.3Bn is a hell of alot of crumbs!
What difference would it make?

At the moment the season seems to run from mid-July to the end of May. That means there is a gap of around seven weeks, possible less for those involved in the promotion/relegation play-offs or the Europa/Champions League qualifiers.

Assuming that the lucrative Christmas and New Year fixtures are not sacrificed, it probably means a close season running from early January till late February. It should very much like the current situation except that the mid-season break is slightly longer than the one that the SPFL are trying to introduce.

The downside is that the fixture list would clash head on with the World Cup/European Championships two years out of four. Also what sort of attendances can be expected when people are on holiday? How many wouldn't bother with a season ticket if they were to miss a couple of matches during summer holidays? It would also bugger up European qualification as it would be based on the previous season's results not the current season.

I am suspicious of winter breaks anyway. This was introduced at the behest of the old firm to 'recharge their batteries' refresh the players. What they really wanted was an opportunity to go an play money spinning friendlies in the Americas and Asia.

[marinello59]

Summer football. Given our proximity to England we need to be an alternative not a competitor.
If it means getting their crumbs financially so be it, £8.3Bn is a hell of alot of crumbs!

Summer football would mean accepting genuinely radical change and those who run our game can't handle the thought of that. They'd rather tinker at the edges.

[Spudster]

What difference would it make?

We would no longer be directly competing with the well marketed english league. Try and take a 6 year old to a game in the pi55ing rain in January when Man Utd are on the TV.


Assuming that the lucrative Christmas and New Year fixtures are not sacrificed, it probably means a close season running from early January till late February. It should very much like the current situation except that the mid-season break is slightly longer than the one that the SPFL are trying to introduce.

The pitches should be in better condition and we can try and play the ball on the deck.


The downside is that the fixture list would clash head on with the World Cup/European Championships two years out of four. Also what sort of attendances can be expected when people are on holiday? How many wouldn't bother with a season ticket if they were to miss a couple of matches during summer holidays? It would also bugger up European qualification as it would be based on the previous season's results not the current season.

The clash wouldn't be an issue as we don't qualify currently. If we did the season gets nudged 2 weeks in both directions. For the few that play for other nations it would make little difference ie Niall McGinn played during the offseason for Aberdeen days after the euros anyway. I don't see why holidays would affect attendances much (granted I've never understood as a nation why we head for the sun when it finally comes out here).

[Spudster]

Aye great idea. Chase TV revenue again cos its not like thats ****ed us up before.
That didn't **** us up before. Terrible mismanagement from clubs and associations did. There was nothing wrong with the money we received or were offered, it was just managed and spent stupidly.

[Rugy07]

I've always thought Scottish football to be very forward thinking and pioneering in terms of new technology, systems and rules. I hasten to add, not usually in a good way! Floodlights, undersoil heating, Premier League and reduced number of teams in that league, winter breaks, play-offs involving the league below, cross border cup competition. We must have been first or very close to first for all of those. I think we maybe even trialled the 4th and 5th officials thing before it went live too but I might be making that up.

[green&left]

That didn't **** us up before. Terrible mismanagement from clubs and associations did. There was nothing wrong with the money we received or were offered, it was just managed and spent stupidly.


1998: The Scottish Premier League is formed and agrees a four-year deal worth 11.25 million a season with British Sky Broadcasting for exclusive live coverage of its matches.

2002: The SPL reject the offer of another 45 million, four-year contract from BSkyB in favour of pursuing their then chief executive Roger Mitchell's proposed in-house SPL TV channel. But SPL TV collapses when it is vetoed by Celtic and Rangers. With BSkyB no longer at the table, the SPL sign a two-year deal worth around 6 million a season with BBC Scotland.

2004: The SPL clubs, some of whom blame live coverage on terrestrial television for a drop in attendances, turn down a renewal of the BBC Scotland contract and sign a four-year deal with Setanta Sports worth 8.25 million a season for 38 live matches.

2006: The SPL agree a two-year extension to the existing contract with Setanta. The new deal, worth 13.5 million a season, is scheduled to run until 2010 with an additional 22 live games each campaign.

2008: A further four-year extension to the Setanta deal is announced. Scheduled to run from 2010 to 2014, it is worth 31.25 million a season, the most lucrative TV contract in Scottish football history.

2009: Setanta's loss of two packages of live games from the English Premier League plunges them into financial difficulty. The SPL agree to re-negotiate the terms of their contract in attempt to help Setanta, but it is not enough to preserve the relationship which formally ended at 3pm yesterday.

.

[jgl07]

We would no longer be directly competing with the well marketed english league. Try and take a 6 year old to a game in the pi55ing rain in January when Man Utd are on the TV.
So Scottish football would not be competing with English football in June and part of July! Big deal. But then again it would be competing with wall to wall televised football two years out of four with the European Championships and the World Cup.



The clash wouldn't be an issue as we don't qualify currently. If we did the season gets nudged 2 weeks in both directions. For the few that play for other nations it would make little difference ie Niall McGinn played during the offseason for Aberdeen days after the euros anyway. I don't see why holidays would affect attendances much (granted I've never understood as a nation why we head for the sun when it finally comes out here).
Nudging the season two weeks in both directions would wipe out half the winter close season.

If a summer season is such a brilliant idea why do so few countries opt for that pattern? Russia abandoned that pattern and went to a German style season with a winter break. The League of Ireland's move to summer has hardly been a resounding success.

Summer football sounds a good idea after a couple of pints, but when you come to map out the way the season will work it fails miserably. Scotland does not have a Continental climate so the weather is less predictable. Sometimes the weather can be very pleasant in January and can be bloody awful in June or July. I have seen a pre-season match at Raith rained off at half time. I have also seen an Inter Toto Cup matched played in farcical conditions.

[Spudster]

So Scottish football would not be competing with English football in June and part of July! Big deal. But then again it would be competing with wall to wall televised football two years out of four with the European Championships and the World Cup.
Exactly for once we would have no competition to compete with. That's a huge incentive (as it should be for any business).

[Ricky Bobby]

Summer football, bigger league with a rugby super league type of end to the season, cheaper ticket prices and an improvement in catering all would help.

[northstandhibby]

I think the first step to build a narrative is to put an end to the bigotry and we all know who the biggest culprits are. If Scottish Football cannot do that it will never move on. It's a must do.

When that's achieved I think a narrative could begin but only after someone has the cahonas to begin coming down heavily on clubs who sing their bigoted songs.

I think another step would be removing the SFA out of the west coast bias. There must be fundamental change of zero tolerance of bigotry and a moving away from the West of Scotland bias prior to building a new narrative.

Do that and the fans of all clubs in Scotland could join in.



GGTTH

[SunshineOnLeith]

When one of our biggest clubs wins our national cup competition for the first time in 114 years, we could actually try and sell the story of it rather than placating the losing team with condemnation of over exuberant fans.

Just an idea.

[Phil MaGlass]

If you really want to find an identity, lets start by scrapping the SFA and rebuild it in Edinburgh. Come down hard and stamp out the bigotry. Zero tollerance. Summer fitba would be excellent, were having some good crowds in Holland at the moment, and thats if you calculate the amount of folk on holidays. If we were to have a winter shutdown why not have the clubs play indoor fitba for that period. I think Germany has a tournament or have the clubs play a few games abroad. Dont knock summer fitba as our fixture lists already have to be moved for EC and WC. Football tomorrow and its 26 degrees, a couple of pinys and off to the game in my tshirt. Sounds good to me.
If yi really want an identity, kick out the Glasgow two.

[Islington Hibs]

Scottish Football is more "real" than the big money leagues and that is our selling point IMO.

Look at the Scottish cup final where we had 2 born and bred Hibees at center half who have supported the club their whole life. You also had local lads like Gray and Cummings , albeit they are from the other side of the city if you like , in the starting eleven.

When you go to a Hibs game you are standing watching the game with people you grew up with , people from your area , your school ect so it has that local connection.

I think alot of Hibs fans probably have a genuine connection to the club either through knowing a player , someone who works at the club ,knowing previous players ect which you just wont get at clubs like Man Utd , Chelsea ect. Our players are also approachable and seem to live a normal life compared to the guys in England.

I think a lot of us of the younger generation look back at football in the 70s and 80s with envy but atleast Scottish football resembles that era compared to English Premiership where the sport is almost unrecognisable.

:top marks

There is no point competing with EPL head on - and the points your raise are a real point of differentiation (as is also the case in the lower leagues in England).

The lack of competition is an issue too- 2 massive clubs, 4-5 meaningful ones and the rest. Halting Servco's and Celtics dominance is key. Look at our trajectory given the Cup win. The game would be far healthier if any one of 6-8 clubs genuinely had a chance. How that is sorted however is quite another matter.

[green&left]

Exactly for once we would have no competition to compete with. That's a huge incentive (as it should be for any business).

Except the dozens of friendlies and preseason tournaments involving every footballing giant now broadcast by sky and bt. City v Inter in Shanghai is going to be far more appealing than Partick v Caley Thistle to your modern day half and half scarf wearing sky sports watching fandan.

Summer fitbas a non starter anyway. Celtics most lucrative part of the year except qualifying for champs league is summer friendlis. They reportedly made £2m for that champions friendly v leicster city. Theyll struggle to make that after winning the league and being on tele 25 times.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Threads like this appear to always boil down to what we cant do rather than what we can or should be doing.

What is wrong with the clubs getting together and paying for a TV advert. As I've said before everybody on the planet knows who Coca Cola are and what they sell, but that company still spends hundreds of millions on advertising every year, they do that because they have competition from Pepsi and a host of other soft drink companies.

Football is in competition with other forms of entertainment, especially family entertainment ..... what football has over all of them is that it has the ability to form lifelong friendships, not only that but it also has the ability to bring folk together in a common cause outside of the actual game .... how much have Hibs fans contributed to Dnipro over the years, then there was the food bank collections.

Put up against other forms of entertainment football is streets ahead of them in many areas, when was the last time anybody was at the pictures and the whole audience leapt to its feet and started cuddling each other when the film had a good ending? Football better than most if not all entertainments has the ability to bring people of different social backgrounds together, on a Saturday it doesn't matter if you are a bin man or a barrister when you go to watch your team play.

That is the angle we should be pushing when we look to make the game attractive to folk ..... in my opinion you could make an hour long film that would make football look like something that's well worth getting into without even showing a ball being kicked.

[Dan Sarf]

If I’ve got it right, the challenge is to come up with a way for Scottish football to differentiate itself from, as Leeanne put it, “The richest league, the best league or whatever”.

What’s needed is a simple description aimed at getting 1) More local fans to turn up at games. 2) Sofa fans to switch on more Scottish games on TV. And, therefore, 3) TV networks to cough up more for the rights to show Scottish games.

What are local fans looking for?



Exciting football.
The feeling of belonging.
A fair financial deal.
The belief that their team can actually win something.


What might tempt Couch viewers?



Excitement. A thrilling game of football. (The opposite of tika-taka.)
A refreshing alternative to the soulless, corporate owned, mega-rich teams.
Local heroes (as against millionaire mercenaries).
More David & Goliath victories over the foul-breathed bigot brothers – like this year’s Cup Final.


How can we persuade both lots of fans that Scottish football provides all that?



Historically, Scottish football was known for thrilling, fearless, attacking, romantic, almost reckless football. Today, after long periods in the doldrums, teams like Hibs are bringing it back.
Scottish teams have more local players who are passionate about the team they play for - unlike the mercenaries of English leagues. As Since 90+2 put it, “When you go to a Hibs game you are standing watching the game with people you grew up with, people from your area, your school etc. so it has that local connection.”
For reasons admittedly of utter mismanagement, Scottish clubs have failed to get their snouts into the obscene amounts of TV money that’s ruining English football. They’re not bloated with corporate cash.


What does all this add up to? I think Since 90+2 has hit the nail on the head. Scottish football is “Pure Football.”



Pure, romantic excitement.
Pure, undiluted teams.
Pure, affordable entertainment.



Of course the fly in the ointment is the financial imbalance still enjoyed by the Glasgow Thugs. (And you could never call them remotely “pure”.) Pure football should be the only reason one team beats another. As has been stated many times, we need a financially level playing field.


Leeanne, get it sorted (I honestly believe she will)! :flag:

[jacomo]

Is this implicit criticism of the total lack of leadership from donkey Doncaster and Armageddon Regan? Because it should be!

Leeann now taking this in alongside the day job, because the league and SFA offer nothing.

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

The big thing that Hibs are focused on is community and more than a few clubs in Scotland seem keen to go down the same route.

The first thing that we should be working hard on is to make supporting your local club the natural thing to do, to make pride in your town and pride in your towns club one and the same thing. The biggest problem Scottish clubs face is the leeching of their support to the Old Firm, not just as active OF supporters, but thousands of armchair OF supporters. I can never reconcile with someone born and bred in Edinburgh who espouses undying love for their beautiful city kicking that city in the baws by supporting a club from the other side of the country. One of our most famous sons is a case in point, even worse he never seemed able to make his mind up which Glasgow team to support, it was Celtic park one minute, Ibrox the next. Has anybody ever seen him at ER or the PBS?

The other thing our clubs need to address ( here he goes again ) is facilities. Hibs are able to make a significant community contribution because we have an excellent stadium and training facilities which can be used for the communities benefit. But we are the exception not the rule, social stuff aside how can you expect to attract new fans to grounds when half of them are crumbling ruins and even the newer ones appear to be designed with no consideration given to atmosphere. I fail to see how watching a game at ICT's ground for example can be an experience, its a hole and a 3 sided hole at that.

In the entertainment industry image is a huge thing and I cant for the life of me see why football should be any different. One of the first things Leanne Dempster and her colleagues on the SPFL board should be looking to address along with the SFA is the shambles that most of our grounds are in ... Like it or not kids watch the EPL and La Liga and make comparisons, how can you expect them to be inspired to go along to the likes of Partick or ICT when it all looks so bloody small time with their run down 3 sided grounds and how can you attract players who are swithering between Scotland and elsewhere .... more than one player has expressed similar views, not least of all Derek Riordan who famously said it wasn't exactly inspirational running out at Hamilton with its 2 stands.

Nobody is looking for clubs to build super stadiums, but surely even chucking up a 2,000 capacity stand that runs the length of a touchline is better than having an open space. No they wont get used all the time, but if Falkirk had had such a thing at the start of the season we could probably have filled it and Falkirk would have made at least another £30,000 from that one game and empty or not a stand still looks better on the telly than a huge open space.
I fail to see why the clubs cant get together and find a way to raise money that will enable everybody to improve their infrastructure ..... I wont go on about the Commonwealth games again, but if they can squeeze the government for hundreds of millions I fail to see why football shouldn't try to find a way to get the much smaller sum it would take to improve our stadiums, at least in the premier league and for clubs about to enter the premier league.

Sums it up perfectly for me.

One thing I would add, which you seem to have covered off on another post is the marketing off our game. Why is the fans and outsiders like Barry Hearn can see what needs done but those "running" our game can't? Scottish fitbaw is nae where near as bad as is made out nor is it just about the old firm as our wonderful football association and the media would have you believe.

Marketed and priced better we could have clubs like hibs, hearts, Aberdeen and the likes selling out on a consistent basis. Without having the figures to hand a sold out or near sold out easter road every week would surely add a couple of million to our income over the course of a season?

In terms of the OF armchair fans that couldn't even tell you where parkhead or Ibrox is.... I tend to not even engage in good ball discussions with these jokers. The feeling and connection I have with Hibernian FC is for me what supporting a football team is all about, not sitting watching a team on sky every weekend

[Phil MaGlass]

Sums it up perfectly for me.

One thing I would add, which you seem to have covered off on another post is the marketing off our game. Why is the fans and outsiders like Barry Hearn can see what needs done but those "running" our game can't? Scottish fitbaw is nae where near as bad as is made out nor is it just about the old firm as our wonderful football association and the media would have you believe.

Marketed and priced better we could have clubs like hibs, hearts, Aberdeen and the likes selling out on a consistent basis. Without having the figures to hand a sold out or near sold out easter road every week would surely add a couple of million to our income over the course of a season?

In terms of the OF armchair fans that couldn't even tell you where parkhead or Ibrox is.... I tend to not even engage in good ball discussions with these jokers. The feeling and connection I have with Hibernian FC is for me what supporting a football team is all about, not sitting watching a team on sky every weekend

Your last bit is a major problem how to get the future armchair fans and non local supporters to support their local teams. Although I find it a major excuse for alot not to go to games as they just dont want to spend money. Mind you if Aberdeen fans supported their local team their wid only be a couple of thousand at each home game. Teehee..oh and we need to stop over charging for games, our game is wayyyy too expensive, MAKE IT AFFORDABLE.

[patlowe]

Scottish Football is more "real" than the big money leagues and that is our selling point IMO.

Look at the Scottish cup final where we had 2 born and bred Hibees at center half who have supported the club their whole life. You also had local lads like Gray and Cummings , albeit they are from the other side of the city if you like , in the starting eleven.

When you go to a Hibs game you are standing watching the game with people you grew up with , people from your area , your school ect so it has that local connection.

I think alot of Hibs fans probably have a genuine connection to the club either through knowing a player , someone who works at the club ,knowing previous players ect which you just wont get at clubs like Man Utd , Chelsea ect. Our players are also approachable and seem to live a normal life compared to the guys in England.

I think a lot of us of the younger generation look back at football in the 70s and 80s with envy but atleast Scottish football resembles that era compared to English Premiership where the sport is almost unrecognisable.

This is a really excellent post and I think you have tapped into the reason I much prefer Scottish football, for all its many faults, to the commercial monster that is the English Premier League.

It would be great if we could all (media, supporters, clubs) do more to emphasise what is good about our game as, in combination with the passion we have for football, the fundamentals are definitely there for us to thrive. As people often point out, we are the best supported league in Europe relative to population so there is clearly potential for a sustainable, entertaining product - just look at the Scottish Cup final and tell me we don't have a product worth watching here.

Promoting the unique nature of our game has to be the route we (and many other European countries) go down from here on in, as our ability to compete with the 'top' leagues in terms of finance and slick marketing is only going to reduce as it stands. Do we have the people in charge to want to do that though?

[NAE NOOKIE]

Sums it up perfectly for me.

One thing I would add, which you seem to have covered off on another post is the marketing off our game. Why is the fans and outsiders like Barry Hearn can see what needs done but those "running" our game can't? Scottish fitbaw is nae where near as bad as is made out nor is it just about the old firm as our wonderful football association and the media would have you believe.

Marketed and priced better we could have clubs like hibs, hearts, Aberdeen and the likes selling out on a consistent basis. Without having the figures to hand a sold out or near sold out easter road every week would surely add a couple of million to our income over the course of a season?

In terms of the OF armchair fans that couldn't even tell you where parkhead or Ibrox is.... I tend to not even engage in good ball discussions with these jokers. The feeling and connection I have with Hibernian FC is for me what supporting a football team is all about, not sitting watching a team on sky every weekend

Exactly the message we should be busting a gut to get across. If you are sitting watching on the telly you are a viewer of the product, if you are sitting in the ground watching you are part of the product ..... To make that point watch Paul Hanlon's equaliser at Tynecastle or David Gray's winner at Hampden, its the explosion of emotion behind the goals that makes these goals so special just as much as their meaning in the context of the actual game.

The expression 'football without fans is nothing' is being used a lot lately ..... what it should say is 'football without fans in the ground is nothing' .... You can pretend you love the game as much as you want, but if that love extends to watching SKY super Sunday or Match of the day then you may love the game, but you contribute absolutely nothing to it as a spectacle.

As far as Scottish football goes the fans are everything and that should be another part of the message. EPL teams could shut the gates and still survive, the TV money for most of them dwarves income from attendances, in Scotland its the exact opposite, fans contribute massively to clubs surviving and especially surviving as full time professional teams.

Football fans love the idea that more than anything they are the clubs they support and no distinction should exist between the two, in Scotland that's an actual fact, we are our clubs in every sense because we are the last lifeline to the existence of our clubs. If that idea could be hammered home to the communities surrounding clubs perhaps more folk would come along in the knowledge that they are part of something rather than just customers of it.

[JimBHibees]

Is this implicit criticism of the total lack of leadership from donkey Doncaster and Armageddon Regan? Because it should be!

Leeann now taking this in alongside the day job, because the league and SFA offer nothing.

Completely agree and was watching teh bbc highlights of the final yesterday an Regan's comments were a joke, this game will be forgotten about and will only be remembered for the invasion. Never heard so much guff in my life. he same guy who hasnt the backbone to stand up to Rangers comes out with junk like that.