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Rougier45
01-09-2016, 03:17 PM
This has probably been covered -so apologies if so-

Hibs are offering 51% fan ownership

20% has been taken up.
Price 4p per share .

Question -how many shares in total available ?

and so how much is this share issue valuing the club at ?

Thanks

Michael
01-09-2016, 03:57 PM
If I remember correctly it was around £2m (maybe £2.5m) for 51%

Rougier45
01-09-2016, 04:04 PM
If I remember correctly it was around £2m (maybe £2.5m) for 51%

Interesting total value 5mn amazed no buy out interest at that price .

jacomo
01-09-2016, 04:10 PM
Interesting total value 5mn amazed no buy out interest at that price .

Yes but also £5m assumed debt. So club is really valued at double that.

Also any prospective buyer would still have 49% owned by STF, plus non-profit making share of HSL, limiting their ability to launder large amounts of Lithuanian money through the club. :wink:

NAE NOOKIE
01-09-2016, 04:26 PM
The good thing is that we aren't far off 25% fan ownership, which if I am correct would put a major stumbling block in the way of anybody who would be looking to asset strip the club in the future.

Rougier45
01-09-2016, 04:37 PM
if you come in with 2.5m - you can buy 51% .

New Investor 51%
Hibs -HSL et al 25%
SIR T and Rod P 24%

So you would have control of the club -but you take on effectively 51% of the debt -nearly 2.5mn .


Sir Tom must then Values the club at 10mn == 5mn in shares and he received the 5mn loan .

is my understanding correct ?

Pretty Boy
01-09-2016, 04:42 PM
if you come in with 2.5m - you can buy 51% .

New Investor 51%
Hibs -HSL et al 25%
SIR T and Rod P 24%

So you would have control of the club -but you take on effectively 51% of the debt -nearly 2.5mn .


Sir Tom must then Values the club at 10mn == 5mn in shares and he received the 5mn loan .

is my understanding correct ?

The shares currently being sold are new shares as opposed to current shares. STF (or his holding company) are diluting their shareholding by creating new shares not selling their existing ones. There's a maximum of 51% of the club up for sale (through the share issues/HSL) and 25% or thereabouts is already in the hands of HSL and new and exisiting individual shareholders.

For anyone to get their hands on 51% of the club they would have to deal with STF and RP directly.

BSEJVT
01-09-2016, 04:56 PM
if you come in with 2.5m - you can buy 51% .

New Investor 51%
Hibs -HSL et al 25%
SIR T and Rod P 24%

So you would have control of the club -but you take on effectively 51% of the debt -nearly 2.5mn .


Sir Tom must then Values the club at 10mn == 5mn in shares and he received the 5mn loan .

is my understanding correct ?

No its not unfortunately

For a kick off as Hibs supporters now own over 25% of the available 51% your chances of getting that 25% are virtually nil, particularly the block owned by HSL.

My understanding was that in addition to wanting to the supporters to purchase 51% of the revised share capital through purchasing new shares that the club were also due STF £5m as a loan repayment

Any change to ownership percentages wont change that debt being due.

The net asset value of the club is considerably more than £5m, Around £17m rings a bell but not certain

STF can sell those new shares worth 51% of the revised share capital and effectively dilute his shareholding or indeed sell everything and anything for whatever he can get or less if he wants, but he wouldn't have been interested in selling the new 51% he has put up for sale either in one or several blocks for £2.5m

Every offer to purchase these shares is vetted and if there were any significant offer received that looked as if it came from other than supporters or supporters organisations it would be declined.

STF has agreed to this dilution as the first step in passing ownership to the fans at a severely discounted rate, such a deal would not have been on the table for your every day asset stripper.

We will see what happens with the other 49% in due course, my guess would be that he would come to a similar arrangement to dilute his shareholding further if HSL were still willing purchasers.

The only thing that would trouble me about that would be what would happen if we needed to post losses again for a period in the event of god forbid another relegation in future, without a wealthy benefactor in the background prepared to advance the cash as there is next to no chance of banks doing so again in my lifetime.

Lee Marvin
01-09-2016, 05:02 PM
No its not unfortunately

For a kick off as Hibs supporters now own over 20% of the available 51% your chances of getting that 20% are virtually nil, particularly the block owned by HSL.

My understanding was that in addition to wanting to the supporters to purchase 51% of the revised share capital through purchasing new shares that the club were also due STF £5m as a loan repayment

Any change to ownership percentages wont change that debt being due.

The net asset value of the club is considerably more than £5m, Around £17m rings a bell but not certain

STF can sell new shares worth 51% of the revised share capital and effectively dilute his shareholding or indeed sell all of it for whatever he can get or less if he wants, but he wouldn't have been interested in selling the new 51% he has put up for sale either in one or several blocks for £2.5m

Every offer to purchase these shares is vetted and if there were any significant offer received that looked as if it came from other than supporters or supporters organisations it would be declined.

STF has agreed to this dilution as the first step in passing ownership to the fans at a severely discounted rate, such a deal would not have been on the table for your every day asset stripper.

We will see what happens with the other 49% in due course, my guess would be that he would come to a similar arrangement to dilute his shareholding further if HSL were still willing purchasers.

The only thing that would trouble me about that would be what would happen if we needed to post losses again for a period in the event of god forbid another relegation in future, without a wealthy benefactor in the background prepared to advance the cash as there is next to no chance of banks doing so again in my lifetime.

The last paragraph is my reservation about a club 100% owned by the fans too.

Are there any clubs currently owned in the way in the UK that have a few years of trading? I'd be interested to see how it has worked

Rougier45
01-09-2016, 05:20 PM
Thanks BSEJVT


No its not unfortunately

For a kick off as Hibs supporters now own over 25% of the available 51% your chances of getting that 25% are virtually nil, particularly the block owned by HSL.

BUT SIR T WANTS OUT HE HAS BEEN VOCAL ABOUT THAT AS LONG AS THE PURCHASE WAS IN GOOD FAITH HE WOULD SELL?

My understanding was that in addition to wanting to the supporters to purchase 51% of the revised share capital through purchasing new shares that the club were also due STF £5m as a loan repayment

Any change to ownership percentages wont change that debt being due.

The net asset value of the club is considerably more than £5m, Around £17m rings a bell but not certain

THERE IS NO PROFITABILITY IN THE CLUB only the land at ER and EAST mains add in the squad value -but surely assets no more than 8mn ?
5mn land at ER -1 mn land at straiton -squad 2-3m ??


STF can sell those new shares worth 51% of the revised share capital and effectively dilute his shareholding or indeed sell everything and anything for whatever he can get or less if he wants, but he wouldn't have been interested in selling the new 51% he has put up for sale either in one or several blocks for £2.5m

Every offer to purchase these shares is vetted and if there were any significant offer received that looked as if it came from other than supporters or supporters organisations it would be declined.

STF has agreed to this dilution as the first step in passing ownership to the fans at a severely discounted rate, such a deal would not have been on the table for your every day asset stripper.

We will see what happens with the other 49% in due course, my guess would be that he would come to a similar arrangement to dilute his shareholding further if HSL were still willing purchasers.

The only thing that would trouble me about that would be what would happen if we needed to post losses again for a period in the event of god forbid another relegation in future, without a wealthy benefactor in the background prepared to advance the cash as there is next to no chance of banks doing so again in my lifetime.

CapitalGreen
01-09-2016, 05:31 PM
BUT SIR T WANTS OUT HE HAS BEEN VOCAL ABOUT THAT AS LONG AS THE PURCHASE WAS IN GOOD FAITH HE WOULD SELL?

Does he? Has he?


THERE IS NO PROFITABILITY IN THE CLUB only the land at ER and EAST mains add in the squad value -but surely assets no more than 8mn ?
5mn land at ER -1 mn land at straiton -squad 2-3m ??

Significantly undervaluing the land there. Car Park behind the east was sold for circa £10m a decade ago.

Straiton?

Hibs could expect to receive north of £3m for just Cummings and McGinn alone.

BSEJVT
01-09-2016, 05:51 PM
Thanks BSEJVT

STF has owned Hibs for what 25 years

In that time there has not been one party came within the length of Leith Walk of purchasing or being allowed to purchase Hibs, nor will there ever be.

It would be a total vanity purchase for the mega mega rich and as STF has found out a thankless task.

Where we are headed now is STF's exit route and I for one don't begrudge him it, especially as realtively speaking he will walk away with ****pence for his asset and the aggro it has caused him.

We should be very very grateful for STF as if it weren't for him and his refusal to sell to any Tom Dick & Harry we could easily have found ourselves in a similar or worse position to the The Rangers or Hearts.

You should get a look at the latest accounts for asset valuations / net assets

Rougier45
01-09-2016, 06:07 PM
You are correct it's a thankless task and he should be applauded

PatHead
01-09-2016, 06:08 PM
I thought there was a maximum number of shares any individual could buy. £250,000 worth rings a bell. The limit was put on to ensure no-one could ruin the club.

Might be wrong though.

Keith_M
01-09-2016, 06:10 PM
Would a single party be allowed to buy the remaining ~28% of shares available?

Rougier45
01-09-2016, 06:26 PM
Would a single party be allowed to buy the remaining ~28% of shares available?

What would be the point - huge outlay and no real influence

Kato
01-09-2016, 06:41 PM
You are correct it's a thankless task and he should be applauded


So its a thankless task but not an applauseless one.

RyeSloan
01-09-2016, 06:47 PM
What would be the point - huge outlay and no real influence

So you can sit in the Directors box and constantly tell anyone that will listen that you own 28% of Hibs! Jeez I would do that tomorrow if I had the cash, would make me happy till the end of my days [emoji3]


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Ozyhibby
01-09-2016, 06:48 PM
Does anyone know when our next set of accounts are due?


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CropleyWasGod
01-09-2016, 07:00 PM
Does anyone know when our next set of accounts are due?


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The next accounts are for the 11 months to the end of June. The date has been changed to coincide with the earlier start to the season.

Presumably, they will be out a month earlier than they were last year.

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jacomo
01-09-2016, 07:53 PM
Does he? Has he?



Significantly undervaluing the land there. Car Park behind the east was sold for circa £10m a decade ago.

Straiton?

Hibs could expect to receive north of £3m for just Cummings and McGinn alone.

The land is only valuable if you sold it for another purpose.

If you sold those players you would be expected to reinvest the money in the club or face the wrath of us types.

Unless you are unscrupulous there is no money to be made out of Hibs.

CropleyWasGod
01-09-2016, 08:28 PM
The land is only valuable if you sold it for another purpose.

If you sold those players you would be expected to reinvest the money in the club or face the wrath of us types.

Unless you are unscrupulous there is no money to be made out of Hibs.

And don't forget that the Ticket Office isn't owned by us.... the same TO that some people moan about us paying £42k rent for.

That was a smart move by STF to keep it out of the club. A property developer couldn't get their hands on the whole of the land without being held to ransom. In other words, it protects the whole of the land.

Rougier45
01-09-2016, 09:43 PM
There must be more sophisticated ways of protecting the land

Rougier45
01-09-2016, 09:45 PM
The land is only valuable if you sold it for another purpose.

If you sold those players you would be expected to reinvest the money in the club or face the wrath of us types.

Unless you are unscrupulous there is no money to be made out of Hibs.

Exactly as a business Hibs are worth a lot less than the price of Land you cannot sell

CropleyWasGod
01-09-2016, 09:47 PM
There must be more sophisticated ways of protecting the land

It's a fairly common way of doing things.

One of the guys who owned the Playhouse back in the 80's, sold most of it but kept a small part for himself. That way, if any property developer wanted to buy it and convert it to flats, he was sitting on a goldmine. He would say that he was protecting the theatre.

Rougier45
01-09-2016, 09:56 PM
It's a fairly common way of doing things.

One of the guys who owned the Playhouse back in the 80's, sold most of it but kept a small part for himself. That way, if any property developer wants to buy it and convert it to flats, he is sitting on a goldmine.

That's clever about playhouse but are you not giving Hibs respect when not due or have they confirmed strategy ?

CropleyWasGod
01-09-2016, 10:02 PM
That's clever about playhouse but are you not giving Hibs respect when not due or have they confirmed strategy ?

STF is shrewd enough not to tell me, or anyone else out there, what his business strategies are.

However, I'm struggling to see what else he could have done it for. It certainly isn't the money. As I say, it's a fairly common practice.

Ozyhibby
01-09-2016, 10:09 PM
If HSL ever get to 26% then the stadium should always be safe.


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CropleyWasGod
01-09-2016, 10:14 PM
If HSL ever get to 26% then the stadium should always be safe.


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That's probably true, but at the time STF took over, we'd just been owned by people who weren't, in hindsight, the most scrupulous of folk. The TO arrangement was intended, IMO, to protect us from people like them.

Jack
01-09-2016, 10:30 PM
This has probably been covered -so apologies if so-

Hibs are offering 51% fan ownership

20% has been taken up.
Price 4p per share .

Question -how many shares in total available ?

and so how much is this share issue valuing the club at ?

Thanks

Hibs are not for sale to an individual. We belong to our support and the wider community.

Supporters can buy shares but no single Shareholder can have control.

After just a couple of years the support owns a quarter of the club. There's no deadline for the other half of the half available to us. That will be around 6,000 supporters each with voting rights of sorts having a say.

I think it's also important to mention every penny raised through the share issues and HSL goes to the running of the club. It's not buying anyone out, not to any wee budgie, with interest, or anyone that's running away.

What STF decides to do with his less than half after that is unknown.

Rougier45
02-09-2016, 07:30 AM
The next accounts are for the 11 months to the end of June. The date has been changed to coincide with the earlier start to the season.

Presumably, they will be out a month earlier than they were last year.

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any idea of where I could see last years accounts -when this years are due and the agm month ? .

I am a shareholder from first time around but haven't received anything in 20 odd years .

Mind I haven't lived in Edinburgh this millennium and haven't informed anyone!

CropleyWasGod
02-09-2016, 07:33 AM
any idea of where I could see last years accounts -when this years are due and the agm month ? .

I am a shareholder from first time around but haven't received anything in 20 odd years .

Mind I haven't lived in Edinburgh this millennium and haven't informed anyone!
Last year's are on the Companies House website.

This year's will be out over the next couple of months. The AGM date hasn't been announced yet.

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B.Wilson
02-09-2016, 09:51 AM
This has probably been covered -so apologies if so-

Hibs are offering 51% fan ownership

20% has been taken up.
Price 4p per share .

Question -how many shares in total available ?

and so how much is this share issue valuing the club at ?

Thanks

received my share certificate through the post this week,i am now the proud owner of 10,000 shares in Hibernian FC valued at 2p each,

CropleyWasGod
02-09-2016, 10:06 AM
In response to the poster who wanted to see the accounts:-

17382

Rougier45
02-09-2016, 11:02 AM
Thanks CWG makes interesting reading - secured mortgage against the stadium I'm sure - hopefully losses reduced again this year !