Celtc and New Huns to England - part 346 (with some added Hibs content)

[JeMeSouviens]

Some life breathed into the old story by the proposed expansion of the English leagues to 5 divisions of 20, plus some Atlantic League chat on the back of the proposed Champions' League changes.

Same old, same old, but there is a little nugget of Hibs-ness in there:


Celtic, though, have investigated alternative futures in detail and their belief is that the Old Firm – and also Aberdeen, Hearts and Hibernian – would add much greater value to the Football League than the addition of Conference clubs or franchises.

Celtic are understood to favour a pyramid system open to other SPFL clubs, solidarity payments, their continued participation in the Scottish Cup and the possibility of maintaining colt or ‘B’ teams in the Scottish leagues.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/08/28/u-turn-leaves-football-league-facing-competition-to-tempt-old-fi/

[Moulin Yarns]

You need to stop reading that paper!! :wink:

[JeMeSouviens]

You need to stop reading that paper!! :wink:

Know thy enemy. :wink:

[Iain G]

Fergus McGoo saying as much on the bbc today...

http://m.bbc.com/sport/football/37204507

[PapillonVert]

Some life breathed into the old story by the proposed expansion of the English leagues to 5 divisions of 20, plus some Atlantic League chat on the back of the proposed Champions' League changes.

Same old, same old, but there is a little nugget of Hibs-ness in there:



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/08/28/u-turn-leaves-football-league-facing-competition-to-tempt-old-fi/

Purely my own opinion but, if they go, they should go lock, stock and barrel. None of this keeping an entry into the SC or B/colt teams in the SPL.

That's just a ruse because they know they cannot afford NOT to qualify for Europe each year and they are unlikely to do so in England for a very, very long time (if ever). Why should they have multiple shots at Euro qualification at the expense of other Scottish clubs?

So, OK, go but if you maintain teams in Scotland, you cannot take any of Scotland's European competition places which should only go to those clubs committed to the Scottish game.

[givescotlandfreedom]

Purely in reference to Hibs I'd rather be a player in the Scottish set up than an insignificance in England. No more semis/finals/Europe would be miserable.

[Baw187]

I've said this for ages. We'd flourish in the English leagues as Edinburgh is an attractive city and the infrastructure at the club bolstered but the kind of money you get in the EFL. Aberdeen and Hearts too.

I think the financial boost would bolster Scotland's international prospects too.


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[Pedantic_Hibee]

Rangers restoring themselves? Why will the media not report the truth that Rangers died?

[Ozyhibby]

Purely my own opinion but, if they go, they should go lock, stock and barrel. None of this keeping an entry into the SC or B/colt teams in the SPL.

That's just a ruse because they know they cannot afford NOT to qualify for Europe each year and they are unlikely to do so in England for a very, very long time (if ever). Why should they have multiple shots at Euro qualification at the expense of other Scottish clubs?

So, OK, go but if you maintain teams in Scotland, you cannot take any of Scotland's European competition places which should only go to those clubs committed to the Scottish game.

If they go, us, Hearts and Aberdeen would need to go with them.


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[Hibernian Verse]

If they go, us, Hearts and Aberdeen would need to go with them.


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Or stay and compete for Champions League spaces?

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[G B Young]

If they go, us, Hearts and Aberdeen would need to go with them.


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I think Hibs would do quite well in England. The quality of the game there is overrated and I'd be confident we could go on to establish ourselves at Championship level fairly quickly. Certainly some form of UK league has been long overdue (in my view).

[GloryGlory]

Or stay and compete for Champions League spaces?

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I don't think UEFA would maintain Scotland's CL place if Rantic scarpered to England. Why would they allow Rantic to go and compete in England AND keep Scottish Euro places the same?

[GloryGlory]

I think Hibs would do quite well in England. The quality of the game there is overrated and I'd be confident we could go on to establish ourselves at Championship level fairly quickly. Certainly some form of UK league has been long overdue (in my view).

Plus if Rantic left, there would be no coverage of the rest of Scottish football at all. It would become like the Welsh league, with all the focus on Cardiff and Swansea in the English leagues.

[hibbypostie]

I think Hibs would do quite well in England. The quality of the game there is overrated and I'd be confident we could go on to establish ourselves at Championship level fairly quickly. Certainly some form of UK league has been long overdue (in my view).


it would mean the end of the Scotland team so no thanks also should this country vote for independence what would happen then?

[Hibernian Verse]

it would mean the end of the Scotland team so no thanks also should this country vote for independence what would happen then?
That Welsh team has really disappeared since Swansea, Cardiff and Wrexham joined the leagues.

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[stokesmessiah]

I don't think UEFA would maintain Scotland's CL place if Rantic scarpered to England. Why would they allow Rantic to go and compete in England AND keep Scottish Euro places the same?


Correct, and you would need to go through several qualifying rounds before you even got anywhere near either competition.

[Ozyhibby]

it would mean the end of the Scotland team so no thanks also should this country vote for independence what would happen then?

Why would it mean the end of the Scotland team? International football is expanding not contracting. When you have Gibraltar competing I'm pretty sure there is room for Scotland.


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[cookin_on_gaz]

If we left Scottish football I have to say that my time following Hibs would be no more. It really pains me writing that but we are a Scottish club and so it should stay.

[TAHibby]

Trade away everything we've got to perhaps one day end up on the level of the likes of Rotherham. Brilliant.

[Weststandwanab]

If we left Scottish football I have to say that my time following Hibs would be no more. It really pains me writing that but we are a Scottish club and so it should stay.

Me 2

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

If they go, us, Hearts and Aberdeen would need to go with them.


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I wouldnt want to - id rather stay in scotland which would become super-competitive

[Diclonius]

Incorporate all teams in the UK into a British-wide league setup, retain the national cup competitions and merge the League Cups into a UK Cup. Sorted.

[Ozyhibby]

This is something I think will happen whether we like it or not. The TV deal in England is causing unrest all over Europe.
My personal preference if change is to come would be an Atlantic league model with two divisions of 20 teams.
One thing I'm certain of, if the old firm move on, we won't survive staying in Scotland without them. Our cost base is too high to sustain the business on the reduced income.
I think there will be something happening in the next 5 years. UEFA are very weak just now and will green light it. We should make sure we protect our interests and be part of it.


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[GloryGlory]

Trade away everything we've got to perhaps one day end up on the level of the likes of Rotherham. Brilliant.

Why Rotherham? Why not Bournemouth, Swansea, Stoke?

[Ozyhibby]

If we left Scottish football I have to say that my time following Hibs would be no more. It really pains me writing that but we are a Scottish club and so it should stay.

My support for Hibs is unconditional. Does that make me an uber fan?


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[jgl07]

I don't think UEFA would maintain Scotland's CL place if Rantic scarpered to England. Why would they allow Rantic to go and compete in England AND keep Scottish Euro places the same?

Ermm,

Gibraltar, San Marino, and Andorra all get access to the Champions' League.

[TAHibby]

Why Rotherham? Why not Bournemouth, Swansea, Stoke?

I think it's clear to see the English leagues are bloated with many clubs of similar size, completely abandoning the Scottish system is certainly not what I would choose

[KWJ]

Why on earth would we need to follow Rantic to England?

We just had over 14,000 at home to Greenock Morton ffs so what makes you think it'd turn into the Welsh league?

This is the ground of The New Saints who are the current and most successful team ever in the Welsh premier league.

17363

Folk aren't going to stop watching Hibs, Aberdeen, Hearts and so on because the aren't playing Celtic and Rangers anymore, I think they just proved that over the past 4 seasons. The Scottish game would flourish IMO.

[Ozyhibby]

Why on earth would we need to follow Rantic to England?

We just had over 14,000 at home to Greenock Morton ffs so what makes you think it'd turn into the Welsh league?

This is the ground of The New Saints who are the current and most successful team ever in the Welsh premier league.

17363

Folk aren't going to stop watching Hibs, Aberdeen, Hearts and so on because the aren't playing Celtic and Rangers anymore, I think they just proved that over the past 4 seasons. The Scottish game would flourish IMO.

I think most Hibs fans view our stay in the championship as temporary, and our crowds have been boosted by the feel good factor of a Scottish cup win but there are already threads on here about the lack of media interest in Hibs this season. It would disappear altogether if we had a bigger league operating in Scotland full time. We would always be in the second division then. Kids would start to support Hibs and Celtic in the same way they do Hibs and Man Utd now.
Only 4 months ago we were struggling to get 8000 through the doors at Easter road. If that had continued we would have had to scale back the club significantly.
I think this will be happening, we need to be prepared.


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[GloryGlory]

Ermm,

Gibraltar, San Marino, and Andorra all get access to the Champions' League.

But they don't have their biggest and best supported clubs playing in Spain, Italy or France as well.

[Ergye]

If they go, us, Hearts and Aberdeen would need to go with them.


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I don't think any new league would want riff raff like Hearts in it. They'd have to completely rebuild their ground and improve security to stop their fans attacking opposing players and managers.

We'd have to leave them behind. As always.

[JeMeSouviens]

Ermm,

Gibraltar, San Marino, and Andorra all get access to the Champions' League.

But they don't have a pyramid system with access to the Spanish, French or Italian leagues which is what's being discussed. Monaco play in France without a separate CL entry.

There is a lot of chatter around UEFA regarding cross-border leagues as a way to pacify the big clubs that don't play in big leagues: Celtc, Porto, Ajax, Red Star etc. An Atlantic League and a Balkans League are the front runners at the moment.

What would blow it all wide open would be Catalan independence. The pressure for a speedy "keep the Clasico" solution would be insane.

[BonnieFitbaTeam]

Purely my own opinion but, if they go, they should go lock, stock and barrel. None of this keeping an entry into the SC or B/colt teams in the SPL.

That's just a ruse because they know they cannot afford NOT to qualify for Europe each year and they are unlikely to do so in England for a very, very long time (if ever). Why should they have multiple shots at Euro qualification at the expense of other Scottish clubs?

So, OK, go but if you maintain teams in Scotland, you cannot take any of Scotland's European competition places which should only go to those clubs committed to the Scottish game.


I agree entirely with your first point; if they go then they go...GTF and don't come back.

The part in bold, however, I think you're kidding yourself. 50k and 60k respectively every home game plus Sky money; the bigots would be in Europe very quickly, unfortunately.

[ballengeich]

In another Telegraph article, the English league chief executive says that the clubs will vote on how a proposed fifth division will be populated. He doesn't actually mention any specific clubs so the reference to Rangers and Celtic is purely Roddy Forsyth's (probably on a promise of succulent lamb). There's also no guarantee that the proposed fifth division will be created, as a number of lower division clubs have reacted unfavourably to the prospect of their home games reducing from 23 to 19.

As things stand no Scottish club can enter the English set up for two reasons. First, English regulations require league members to play home games at a ground in England or Wales. They also forbid members moving from their traditional catchment area to avoid a repetition of Wimbledon's move to MK. Second, UEFA regulations require clubs to play in their national association's league, with the only exceptions being existing long-established arrangements for clubs whose own country does not have a viable professional set-up (Cardiff, Monaco, Vaduz etc).

Having said that, it's likely that the size of the new English tv deal is likely to precipitate some reorganisation away from the current national border restrictions.

The Atlantic League is a possibility, along with other European regional setups - Balkans, Middle-Europe etc. I wouldn't mind this, provided the top division isn't a closed shop i.e the Scottish league winners get a chance for promotion to the Atlantic League via playoffs against the other national champions.

If there's a European super league including the top English clubs, the rump of the English Premier might find the idea of inviting a few Scottish teams to join attractive. It could lead to a merged UK setup, with the Scottish Premier becoming say league 1 Scotland with the winners promoted to the Championship.

There will be many other possible structures. Other countries are looking at how not to fall further behind England financially so I expect change in a few years.

[northstandhibby]

Some life breathed into the old story by the proposed expansion of the English leagues to 5 divisions of 20, plus some Atlantic League chat on the back of the proposed Champions' League changes.

Same old, same old, but there is a little nugget of Hibs-ness in there:



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/08/28/u-turn-leaves-football-league-facing-competition-to-tempt-old-fi/

As far as I'm concerned they can both do what they like and play in whatever league would take them and their bigotry. However i would be up in arms about any so called bigoted 'colt team' being left for the foul mouthed bandits to still be able to stain scottish football with. No chance. If they leave they can leave no trace of their bigoted songbook behind them.


Mon the Cabbage

[JeMeSouviens]

I agree entirely with your first point; if they go then they go...GTF and don't come back.

The part in bold, however, I think you're kidding yourself. 50k and 60k respectively every home game plus Sky money; the bigots would be in Europe very quickly, unfortunately.

Although you could say the same about Newcastle.

As for the cash though, the bottom English premier team gets £60M odd from tv money, about 3 times what Celtc will get for the CL.

[Dashing Bob S]

Greedy *******s in Scotland want money that greedy *******s in England have but don't want to share with them. And neoliberal TV companies don't want to hear about being up to knees in feinian blood etc.

More empty noise. As long as there are greedy *******s and Scotland it'll be mooted. As long as there are greedy ones in England it'll be ignored.

[BonnieFitbaTeam]

Although you could say the same about Newcastle.

As for the cash though, the bottom English premier team gets £60M odd from tv money, about 3 times what Celtc will get for the CL.


Very true re. Newcastle.

I'm not sure whether your second sentence disputes or confirms my point ?? :greengrin

[chippy]

This is something I think will happen whether we like it or not. The TV deal in England is causing unrest all over Europe.
My personal preference if change is to come would be an Atlantic league model with two divisions of 20 teams.
One thing I'm certain of, if the old firm move on, we won't survive staying in Scotland without them. Our cost base is too high to sustain the business on the reduced income.
I think there will be something happening in the next 5 years. UEFA are very weak just now and will green light it. We should make sure we protect our interests and be part of it.


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Yes I think the 2 division Atlantic model would be better than joining a UK league. I agree we would have to follow the money here otherwise we'll be left top of a Junior league here. Crowds would plummet. Dons and Hertz would jump at joining the EFL or an AL and we'd be left withering in a poorly funded rump SPFL. The rationale for the AL is for the bigger clubs from small countries( small tv markets) to join together and create a much bigger market to enable its clubs to get closer the the big 4 leagues in terms of tv revenue sponsorship and investment. On this occasion we are a bigger club in a small league with our current attendances amply demonstrating that. Having the OF in our league in this context is very useful. I just hope we get an invite to the party we would be mad to turn it down. Indeed we might well have to fight to get a second tier AL set up as I doubt we'd get in the 1st tier. This could re boot us into realising our potential again in Europe. 5 or so Scots clubs in an AL or perhaps a Scandic oriented league or even in a UK league could re boot the national team as well. I hope Leanne is in the discussions.

[Ozyhibby]

Although you could say the same about Newcastle.

As for the cash though, the bottom English premier team gets £60M odd from tv money, about 3 times what Celtc will get for the CL.

Bottom team gets £90m


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[JeMeSouviens]

Very true re. Newcastle.

I'm not sure whether your second sentence disputes or confirms my point ?? :greengrin

It was at least meant to confirm it. :wink:

[Baw187]

Trade away everything we've got to perhaps one day end up on the level of the likes of Rotherham. Brilliant.

Trade away what exactly? Playing crap teams that bring about 100 fans 4 times a year?

As much as I love Hibs, the product up here is horse and the 'big 5' up here should have the ambition to compete at a better level, in a better league format. In the EFL, I guarantee we'd attract more fans and be a bigger club than Rotherham! Especially with 10x more money from sponsorship and TV meaning we could probably reduce ticket prices and improve the team at the same time.

Not a bad trade if you ask me.


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[jgl07]

This is something I think will happen whether we like it or not. The TV deal in England is causing unrest all over Europe.
My personal preference if change is to come would be an Atlantic league model with two divisions of 20 teams.
One thing I'm certain of, if the old firm move on, we won't survive staying in Scotland without them. Our cost base is too high to sustain the business on the reduced income.
I think there will be something happening in the next 5 years. UEFA are very weak just now and will green light it. We should make sure we protect our interests and be part of it.
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This has been talked about for the best part of twenty years and has gained bugger all traction.

First let's consider the Fishfinger League option. Does anyone really want it? The travel costs would be huge. Would the TV companies, and for that matter, the punters be interested?

I can see for example the Dutch and Belgian Leagues amalgamating. Maybe the Scandinavian Leagues but that was tried before and flopped. There was talk of the Russian and Ukrainian Leagues rejoining. Not any more.

Secondly clubs moving to the EFL set up. Yes they just changed their name from the Football League. Why would English clubs be interested. They have to travel long distances as it is. Being asked to go up to Inverness, Dingwall or Aberdeen would be non too popular. It isn't going to happen.

[northstandhibby]

This has been talked about for the best part of twenty years and has gained bugger all traction.

First let's consider the Fishfinger League option. Does anyone really want it? The travel costs would be huge. Would the TV companies, and for that matter, the punters be interested?

I can see for example the Dutch and Belgian Leagues amalgamating. Maybe the Scandinavian Leagues but that was tried before and flopped. There was talk of the Russian and Ukrainian Leagues rejoining. Not any more.

Secondly clubs moving to the EFL set up. Yes they just changed their name from the Football League. Why would English clubs be interested. They have to travel long distances as it is. Being asked to go up to Inverness, Dingwall or Aberdeen would be non too popular. It isn't going to happen.

:top marks

Anyone else remember how the Anglo Scottish Cup went? James Corden couldn't have belly flopped any better than that thing.







Mon the Cabbabe

[Bishop Hibee]

English clubs will never allow rantic into their set up. When the EPL eventually loses its shine there will be an NFL style Euro League. That's where rantic will end up.

[Waxy]

Oh please please please please please let rantic goto England.Please please please.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

I think most Hibs fans view our stay in the championship as temporary, and our crowds have been boosted by the feel good factor of a Scottish cup win but there are already threads on here about the lack of media interest in Hibs this season. It would disappear altogether if we had a bigger league operating in Scotland full time. We would always be in the second division then. Kids would start to support Hibs and Celtic in the same way they do Hibs and Man Utd now.
Only 4 months ago we were struggling to get 8000 through the doors at Easter road. If that had continued we would have had to scale back the club significantly.
I think this will be happening, we need to be prepared.


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There is a flaw in your argument though. We could quite concievably find ourselves languishing in secpnd or third tier alnost permanantly with almost zero prospect of getting to top league or winning a trophy ever again.

I would prefer a even, competitive scottish league where loads of teams would have a chance. Teams like killie etc could actually benfit from atttacting more huns as the new huns could well find themselves shorn of success amd europe, and mid table mediocrity is not exciting. Not to mention sky high prices, hugely increased commercialisation amd a pressure from corporatr interests to end their anti-catholicism that they have never had before. I think loads of old firm fans should be careful what they wish for, but thats their problem.

Im not against looking at rhings if/when we go to european leagues, but simply joining england would be rubbish.

[CockneyRebel]

Incorporate all teams in the UK into a British-wide league setup, retain the national cup competitions and merge the League Cups into a UK Cup. Sorted.

Would that not give more ammo to the "single UK/GB national team" argument? I am English but want to retain the separate national teams - once changed there would be no chance of a reversal. I also would prefer Hibs to remain in the SPFL - without the OF it would be a much better place. I'm with a previous poster who says NO to the idea of the OF playing in an English league and also in Scottish cup competitions - if you leave you leave!

Still can't see it ever happening (turkeys voting for Christmas and all that)

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

I agree entirely with your first point; if they go then they go...GTF and don't come back.

The part in bold, however, I think you're kidding yourself. 50k and 60k respectively every home game plus Sky money; the bigots would be in Europe very quickly, unfortunately.

They would have a chance, of course. But its not as simple as that. Ask leeds, newcastle, sunderland etc

They could succeed spectacularly well, but they could also sonk like stones. Money dosnt mean as much if its the same money as everyone else. There is no advantage there and old firm gate money will be a fraction of what english teams charge. Would they still get 50 or 60 thousand with no europe, no success and £800 seasom tickets? They might, but they might not.

The orher favtor often ovrlooked is there is a high chance that their progress wpuldnt track each others. The old firm fixture could become far less appealing, of even non-existent if one is streaks ahead and rhe other is way behind, diminished or even relegated.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

In another Telegraph article, the English league chief executive says that the clubs will vote on how a proposed fifth division will be populated. He doesn't actually mention any specific clubs so the reference to Rangers and Celtic is purely Roddy Forsyth's (probably on a promise of succulent lamb). There's also no guarantee that the proposed fifth division will be created, as a number of lower division clubs have reacted unfavourably to the prospect of their home games reducing from 23 to 19.

As things stand no Scottish club can enter the English set up for two reasons. First, English regulations require league members to play home games at a ground in England or Wales. They also forbid members moving from their traditional catchment area to avoid a repetition of Wimbledon's move to MK. Second, UEFA regulations require clubs to play in their national association's league, with the only exceptions being existing long-established arrangements for clubs whose own country does not have a viable professional set-up (Cardiff, Monaco, Vaduz etc).

Having said that, it's likely that the size of the new English tv deal is likely to precipitate some reorganisation away from the current national border restrictions.

The Atlantic League is a possibility, along with other European regional setups - Balkans, Middle-Europe etc. I wouldn't mind this, provided the top division isn't a closed shop i.e the Scottish league winners get a chance for promotion to the Atlantic League via playoffs against the other national champions.

If there's a European super league including the top English clubs, the rump of the English Premier might find the idea of inviting a few Scottish teams to join attractive. It could lead to a merged UK setup, with the Scottish Premier becoming say league 1 Scotland with the winners promoted to the Championship.

There will be many other possible structures. Other countries are looking at how not to fall further behind England financially so I expect change in a few years.

The irony in all of this is that the one league that still shares money relatively equally, is rhe big success story. Its not difficult, sport without viable competition is often boring.

[Bostonhibby]

The EPL and any future wider European / global cash cow like it will make a lot of its cash from its brand image, they are hardly going to want to welcome a big dose of what the uglies and the new boys fans in particular bring to the table.

After the performance of fans of the now defunct Glasgow rangers in Manchester and faced with the blatant, overt sectarianism Scotland football and political authorities allow to continue, there is simply no way the EPL brand will allow that culture to be associated with its image.

The Rangers should move to the Northern Ireland league, its going to make it easier for their fans to defend the wall they sing about in their popular football song. Celtc can join the Republic of Irelands league, it'll give a lot of them a chance to see where Ireland is.

[Finn2015]

Irks me when they are just mentioned. If they get access to England then so siuls other Scottish clubs. I know they were only friendlies but we have shown up well against decent standard clubs like Birmingham and I think we could grow as a club to down there.

[Michael]

This is all because of Uefa stupid decision to restrict the champions league to the top leagues. If the top leagues only got 1 (or even 2) places in the Champions League then there'd be enough room for the big clubs from smaller nations and no one would be discussing cross-border leagues.

Additionally, if they had always maintained that only 1 team per country can enter the Champions League (European Cup) then we wouldn't have such an issue with these 'superclubs' and there'd be less talk of a European 'super' league.

The root of the problem is the Champions League, but with their latest announcement Uefa have just made the problem worse.

[stoneyburn hibs]

Let Celtic and Rangers go, we really don't need them. It would be a far more interesting league, with the chance for Hibs to compete in Europe every season.

[northstandhibby]

Let Celtic and Rangers go, we really don't need them. It would be a far more interesting league, with the chance for Hibs to compete in Europe every season.

:top marks

Without any B or Colt teams left behind please. Just leave and take your bigotry with you.






Mon the Cabbage

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

This is all because of Uefa stupid decision to restrict the champions league to the top leagues. If the top leagues only got 1 (or even 2) places in the Champions League then there'd be enough room for the big clubs from smaller nations and no one would be discussing cross-border leagues.

Additionally, if they had always maintained that only 1 team per country can enter the Champions League (European Cup) then we wouldn't have such an issue with these 'superclubs' and there'd be less talk of a European 'super' league.

The root of the problem is the Champions League, but with their latest announcement Uefa have just made the problem worse.

Youre right, but you forgetit was the clubs that forced its creation and expansion with the threat of a european super league - uefa are the little dutch boy with their fingers in the dyke in this case.

Foreign (US in particular) owners are pushing it as a way to sweat their investments. Wouldnt surprise me to see some sprt of european super league playing in middle east amd chine etc like the european golf tour

[NAE NOOKIE]

Lets get realistic here ..... If the OF were shoehorned into a system that gave them access to the EPL one or both of them would make it up there in less than 8 years. If anybody thinks kids would ignore the OF teams playing the likes of Liverpool. Man Utd and Chelsea in order to stick with Hibs v Motherwell or Dundee they are deluded .... the Scottish media would devote the first 10 of the back pages to the goings on at Celtic and Rangers and the last page would have a paragraph headed 'Scottish domestic results'

If it ever comes to an English 5th division looking to include Scottish clubs we would have to seriously consider it ..... IMO both Hibs and Hearts would easily be contenders for the championship after a period of time and who knows what after that. Edinburgh is a hugely attractive city in UK terms ... its football clubs don't attract big money just now because we play in a limited market ... if we had an open door to the riches down south the sky would be the limit .... both Edinburgh clubs and Aberdeen are easily capable of the same feats as the likes of Hull City and Bournemouth if invested in ... hell, as things stand both us and the Yams draw bigger crowds than Bournemouth do, and its not because Bournemouth are limited by capacity, they could easily have expanded their stadium but decided it wasn't worth it .... a merged Dundee club wouldn't be as crazy an idea as it is in a Scottish context in this scenario either.

European football is changing ... I cant see an Atlantic league getting off the ground, but I can definitely see the Balkan countries and the likes of Belgium and Holland and Sweden, Denmark and Norway merging their leagues to attract bigger TV audiences and in the case of the Balkans reignite old crowd pulling rivalries .... UEFA by their own recent actions have severely diluted any power they have to stop that happening.

If Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen were to sit back and watch as the OF buggered off to what is in effect a UK set up and think we could maintain the same level of interest in our clubs as there is now it would be a huge mistake IMO.

[Sammy7nil]

Trade away everything we've got to perhaps one day end up on the level of the likes of Rotherham. Brilliant.

LOL :greengrin what exactly do we have? This is ohr third year out the top league! I dont think we wohld be givi g up much. Haing said that i have no strong preference either way.

[Glory Lurker]

Away games would be a bit of an extravagance.

Fitba really is dying, isn't it?

[J-C]

We've said before that the game up here would thrive without the OF but would it? Would there be TV money without them, European places would vanish. TBH I've been bored as hell with football up here for a good number of years, if we can get a chunk of that money from England then we would do OK down there, championship level easily. We have a good fan base which has been shown recently and are a bigger club than half of the teams down there Rotherham etc.

[ancient hibee]

Lets get realistic here ..... If the OF were shoehorned into a system that gave them access to the EPL one or both of them would make it up there in less than 8 years. If anybody thinks kids would ignore the OF teams playing the likes of Liverpool. Man Utd and Chelsea in order to stick with Hibs v Motherwell or Dundee they are deluded .... the Scottish media would devote the first 10 of the back pages to the goings on at Celtic and Rangers and the last page would have a paragraph headed 'Scottish domestic results'

If it ever comes to an English 5th division looking to include Scottish clubs we would have to seriously consider it ..... IMO both Hibs and Hearts would easily be contenders for the championship after a period of time and who knows what after that. Edinburgh is a hugely attractive city in UK terms ... its football clubs don't attract big money just now because we play in a limited market ... if we had an open door to the riches down south the sky would be the limit .... both Edinburgh clubs and Aberdeen are easily capable of the same feats as the likes of Hull City and Bournemouth if invested in ... hell, as things stand both us and the Yams draw bigger crowds than Bournemouth do, and its not because Bournemouth are limited by capacity, they could easily have expanded their stadium but decided it wasn't worth it .... a merged Dundee club wouldn't be as crazy an idea as it is in a Scottish context in this scenario either.

European football is changing ... I cant see an Atlantic league getting off the ground, but I can definitely see the Balkan countries and the likes of Belgium and Holland and Sweden, Denmark and Norway merging their leagues to attract bigger TV audiences and in the case of the Balkans reignite old crowd pulling rivalries .... UEFA by their own recent actions have severely diluted any power they have to stop that happening.

If Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen were to sit back and watch as the OF buggered off to what is in effect a UK set up and think we could maintain the same level of interest in our clubs as there is now it would be a huge mistake IMO.

So OF supporters would be willing to watch 8 years(your estimate)of playing Shrewsbury,Fleetwood,Morecambe etc.with the hope of making it all the way through.Doubt it.Think teams in the existing lowest English league would be interested in the concept of riches down south.

[JeMeSouviens]

So OF supporters would be willing to watch 8 years(your estimate)of playing Shrewsbury,Fleetwood,Morecambe etc.with the hope of making it all the way through.Doubt it.Think teams in the existing lowest English league would be interested in the concept of riches down south.

The Huns mostly stuck with their new team through 4 years of Scottish lower division dross so I don't see why not? As long as they're winning ...

[jacomo]

I think most Hibs fans view our stay in the championship as temporary, and our crowds have been boosted by the feel good factor of a Scottish cup win but there are already threads on here about the lack of media interest in Hibs this season. It would disappear altogether if we had a bigger league operating in Scotland full time. We would always be in the second division then. Kids would start to support Hibs and Celtic in the same way they do Hibs and Man Utd now.
Only 4 months ago we were struggling to get 8000 through the doors at Easter road. If that had continued we would have had to scale back the club significantly.
I think this will be happening, we need to be prepared.


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Regrettably I agree with you.

What would make me lose interest in club football is if the pyramid system was abandoned. The hope of getting promoted (and the peril of relegation - don't we know it well) is critical IMO.

[Lago]

We've said before that the game up here would thrive without the OF but would it? Would there be TV money without them, European places would vanish. TBH I've been bored as hell with football up here for a good number of years, if we can get a chunk of that money from England then we would do OK down there, championship level easily. We have a good fan base which has been shown recently and are a bigger club than half of the teams down there Rotherham etc.
Frankly the game here would wither & become a backwater.

[ionahibby]

Let Celtic and Rangers go, we really don't need them. It would be a far more interesting league, with the chance for Hibs to compete in Europe every season.

I think we would get bored of playing the Aberdeen and Kilmarnock and motherwells every few months. Hardly fascinating stuff really. If Rangers and Celtic go we should go with them if we have any aspirations of becoming bigger and attracting more fans. A hibs v a big or semi big English club like man Utd or even Newcastle would seem more attractive to fans than hibs v st Johnstone. It would turn into something similar to the Welsh league if we stayed behind.

[Jonnyboy]

I think we would get bored of playing the Aberdeen and Kilmarnock and motherwells every few months. Hardly fascinating stuff really. If Rangers and Celtic go we should go with them if we have any aspirations of becoming bigger and attracting more fans. A hibs v a big or semi big English club like man Utd or even Newcastle would seem more attractive to fans than hibs v st Johnstone. It would turn into something similar to the Welsh league if we stayed behind.

Yet that's exactly what we'll be doing next season, playing those teams as well as Ross County and ICT etc

[Greenworld]

If we left Scottish football I have to say that my time following Hibs would be no more. It really pains me writing that but we are a Scottish club and so it should stay.
You would still be a Scottish team but for every fan that leaves 10 will join the mighty hibernian ranks

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[ionahibby]

Yet that's exactly what we'll be doing next season, playing those teams as well as Ross County and ICT etc

Ok yes that's fair enough but picture the scenario, Rangers Celtic and say hearts leave for England or some Atlantic league, meanwhile hibs stay behind and sit top of the league 2 points ahead of Kilmarnock and play killie in a top of the table clash, at the same time Rangers are at the Emirates playing arsenal on sky sports 1. Now realistically we would not be able to compete and all the kids and any potential new fans will talking and more interested in the big game while our hibs game has a wee snippet at the bottom of the daily record.

With all due respect to the Ross county's etc I don't think these games are going to pull the punters in and although as you say we will potentially be playing these teams next season, they only have added excitement become we are in some sort of challenge between us Rangers Celtic and hearts. Take these teams away and what are left with? Mediocrity imo.

[G B Young]

Yet that's exactly what we'll be doing next season, playing those teams as well as Ross County and ICT etc

And it will quickly become boring. Even going to Ibrox, Celtic Park and Tynecastle is not really a huge deal when it comes around so often. Folk on here are asking who would want to be playing unglamorous lower league English clubs, but in reality there are wealth of big clubs all over England, many of whom would bring a big support for a day or weekend in Edinburgh, and as I said earlier I think we could establish ourselves at Championship level in a relatively short space of time. Personally I think it would add a lot of interest to the sterile Scottish game.

[ian cruise]

I think we would get bored of playing the Aberdeen and Kilmarnock and motherwells every few months. Hardly fascinating stuff really. If Rangers and Celtic go we should go with them if we have any aspirations of becoming bigger and attracting more fans. A hibs v a big or semi big English club like man Utd or even Newcastle would seem more attractive to fans than hibs v st Johnstone. It would turn into something similar to the Welsh league if we stayed behind.

I'd say if Celtic and The Rangers left it's the ideal opportunity for Scottish football to introduce more teams, expanded league where you play each other home and away.

[J-C]

Yet that's exactly what we'll be doing next season, playing those teams as well as Ross County and ICT etc


Ok yes that's fair enough but picture the scenario, Rangers Celtic and say hearts leave for England or some Atlantic league, meanwhile hibs stay behind and sit top of the league 2 points ahead of Kilmarnock and play killie in a top of the table clash, at the same time Rangers are at the Emirates playing arsenal on sky sports 1. Now realistically we would not be able to compete and all the kids and any potential new fans will talking and more interested in the big game while our hibs game has a wee snippet at the bottom of the daily record.

With all due respect to the Ross county's etc I don't think these games are going to pull the punters in and although as you say we will potentially be playing these teams next season, they only have added excitement become we are in some sort of challenge between us Rangers Celtic and hearts. Take these teams away and what are left with? Mediocrity imo.


The league set up makes it boring, we all know each other inside out as we play each other so many times in a season, 10 or 12 teams is just soooo boring, it needs changed or football in Scotland will get worse.

[lord bunberry]

I never want to see hibs playing in the English leagues. I despise what the English system has become and I certainly don't want hibs to join it. When a team gets promoted to the premiership, the first thing that's commented on is the amount of money they'll make. They even call the playoff final the richest game in football (or something equally as vulgar). Teams qualify for Europe and put out reserve teams in order to finish mid table. The whole thing down south stinks. If the ugly sisters want to join then good ****ing riddance, they won't be missed. I couldn't care if the media want to focus on the English football, I stopped reading the papers years ago and I haven't watched Sportscene in even longer.
A league without Rangers and Celtic would be more competitive and full of young Scottish talent. Our games wouldn't be moved as much for tv, but I do think there would be a tv deal. As for letting them still play in the cup and field reserve teams, they can **** right off.

[Iain G]

The league set up makes it boring, we all know each other inside out as we play each other so many times in a season, 10 or 12 teams is just soooo boring, it needs changed or football in Scotland will get worse.

Time to shake up the league cup and set it up as a UK wide competition? Scottish, N Irish, Welsh and English teams all involved, regional knock out rounds and top four teams from each meet in a finals series?

[hhibs]

I never want to see hibs playing in the English leagues. I despise what the English system has become and I certainly don't want hibs to join it. When a team gets promoted to the premiership, the first thing that's commented on is the amount of money they'll make. They even call the playoff final the richest game in football (or something equally as vulgar). Teams qualify for Europe and put out reserve teams in order to finish mid table. The whole thing down south stinks. If the ugly sisters want to join then good ****ing riddance, they won't be missed. I couldn't care if the media want to focus on the English football, I stopped reading the papers years ago and I haven't watched Sportscene in even longer.
A league without Rangers and Celtic would be more competitive and full of young Scottish talent. Our games wouldn't be moved as much for tv, but I do think there would be a tv deal. As for letting them still play in the cup and field reserve teams, they can **** right off.

Well said that man,agree wholeheartedly !

[Rougier45]

I never want to see hibs playing in the English leagues. I despise what the English system has become and I certainly don't want hibs to join it. When a team gets promoted to the premiership, the first thing that's commented on is the amount of money they'll make. They even call the playoff final the richest game in football (or something equally as vulgar). Teams qualify for Europe and put out reserve teams in order to finish mid table. The whole thing down south stinks. If the ugly sisters want to join then good ****ing riddance, they won't be missed. I couldn't care if the media want to focus on the English football, I stopped reading the papers years ago and I haven't watched Sportscene in even longer.
A league without Rangers and Celtic would be more competitive and full of young Scottish talent. Our games wouldn't be moved as much for tv, but I do think there would be a tv deal. As for letting them still play in the cup and field reserve teams, they can **** right off.


Sounds awful - having lived in Ireland - a similar sized county with an awful league with little media coverage and all the players desperate to go to England - I say your vision is apopylptyic - if we have the chance to join the English leagues we have to bite their hands off - Edinburgh is the best city in the UK - we have the infrastructure - thanks Rod- we have the fanbase and we have a great profile / history

[Finn2015]

Sounds awful - having lived in Ireland - a similar sized county with an awful league with little media coverage and all the players desperate to go to England - I say your vision is apopylptyic - if we have the chance to join the English leagues we have to bite their hands off - Edinburgh is the best city in the UK - we have the infrastructure - thanks Rod- we have the fanbase and we have a great profile / history

Agree 100% 👍

[Sir David Gray]

I would love to see the back of Celtic and Sevco.

[cookin_on_gaz]

You would still be a Scottish team but for every fan that leaves 10 will join the mighty hibernian ranks

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Fair enough. I would, however, rather be a fairly decent sized fish in a small pond than an insignificant entity in a larger one. I love Scottish football, and will watch any game involving Scottish teams on the TV rather than watch some plastic English team that have bought their glory. Give me Partick Thistle over Man City any day of the week.

[snooky]

Fair enough. I would, however, rather be a fairly decent sized fish in a small pond than an insignificant entity in a larger one. I love Scottish football, and will watch any game involving Scottish teams on the TV rather than watch some plastic English team that have bought their glory. Give me Partick Thistle over Man City any day of the week.
Agreed
(Ta. You just saved me rewriting my earlier accidentally deleted post)

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

I never want to see hibs playing in the English leagues. I despise what the English system has become and I certainly don't want hibs to join it. When a team gets promoted to the premiership, the first thing that's commented on is the amount of money they'll make. They even call the playoff final the richest game in football (or something equally as vulgar). Teams qualify for Europe and put out reserve teams in order to finish mid table. The whole thing down south stinks. If the ugly sisters want to join then good ****ing riddance, they won't be missed. I couldn't care if the media want to focus on the English football, I stopped reading the papers years ago and I haven't watched Sportscene in even longer.
A league without Rangers and Celtic would be more competitive and full of young Scottish talent. Our games wouldn't be moved as much for tv, but I do think there would be a tv deal. As for letting them still play in the cup and field reserve teams, they can **** right off.

Agree 100%

[LancashireHibby]

The only way we'll be going to England is if the SFA, FA, FAW decide to have a full UK league, and that will only happen if Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, SevCo and Celtc were to move to a full-time European league. Such a league would maybe be a two division effort with relegation between the two and the OF places in the bottom division.

Personally speaking I would have a very tough decision on my hands if there was a scenario where Hibs and Bolton were to play within the same league system.

[Jonnyboy]

Ok yes that's fair enough but picture the scenario, Rangers Celtic and say hearts leave for England or some Atlantic league, meanwhile hibs stay behind and sit top of the league 2 points ahead of Kilmarnock and play killie in a top of the table clash, at the same time Rangers are at the Emirates playing arsenal on sky sports 1. Now realistically we would not be able to compete and all the kids and any potential new fans will talking and more interested in the big game while our hibs game has a wee snippet at the bottom of the daily record.

With all due respect to the Ross county's etc I don't think these games are going to pull the punters in and although as you say we will potentially be playing these teams next season, they only have added excitement become we are in some sort of challenge between us Rangers Celtic and hearts. Take these teams away and what are left with? Mediocrity imo.

That's one helluva leap :greengrin

Strangely, we're pulling in decent crowds when facing Dunfermline, Morton etc so I guess we might match that v Ross County, Inverness etc as without Rantic, we'd be up there fighting for the title :wink:

[Jonnyboy]

The league set up makes it boring, we all know each other inside out as we play each other so many times in a season, 10 or 12 teams is just soooo boring, it needs changed or football in Scotland will get worse.

Agreed.

[ian cruise]

Here's the thing, Sky created the monster that is English football as we know it, by paying over inflated money which enhanced the product and in turn brought super rich owners looking to clubs as status symbols and massive sponsorship deals, now the EPL hold them to ransom and the money they pay each year increases.

If Sky wished they could bank roll Scottish Football for a fraction of the price and create an equally attractive league up here that they could sell to their markets but instead it's all about making massive changes to the product they already own that will resent them for the change, whether that's including Celtic and The Rangers or just expanding to include further conference clubs.

[Speedy]

But they don't have their biggest and best supported clubs playing in Spain, Italy or France as well.

San Marino do.

Wales & Northern Ireland also have top clubs playing in other leagues.

[jgl07]

No one has explained how it would all come about.

There is zero chance of Scottish teams joining the English pyramid system. What is in it for the EFL and EPL? Why would teams vote to push themselves down the pecking order and increase travelling costs into the bargain?

Only Rangers, Celtic, Hibs and Hearts, along (possibly) with Aberdeen have anything to offer. The former two tend to offer more negatives. It wasn't that long ago that Rangers fans were trashing Manchester.

Ok if a league were being established from scratch, the Glasgow and Edinburgh teams plus one each from Aberdeen and Dundee would probably be included. But we are dealing with two established League systems both of which are notoriously resistant to change.

As for the Atlantic League, I don't see it ever coming about. It would essentially involve the merger of the various national leagues into a single pyramid. That is not going to happen.

Rangers and Celtic aren't going anywhere. No one will have them!

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

Lets get realistic here ..... If the OF were shoehorned into a system that gave them access to the EPL one or both of them would make it up there in less than 8 years. If anybody thinks kids would ignore the OF teams playing the likes of Liverpool. Man Utd and Chelsea in order to stick with Hibs v Motherwell or Dundee they are deluded .... the Scottish media would devote the first 10 of the back pages to the goings on at Celtic and Rangers and the last page would have a paragraph headed 'Scottish domestic results'

If it ever comes to an English 5th division looking to include Scottish clubs we would have to seriously consider it ..... IMO both Hibs and Hearts would easily be contenders for the championship after a period of time and who knows what after that. Edinburgh is a hugely attractive city in UK terms ... its football clubs don't attract big money just now because we play in a limited market ... if we had an open door to the riches down south the sky would be the limit .... both Edinburgh clubs and Aberdeen are easily capable of the same feats as the likes of Hull City and Bournemouth if invested in ... hell, as things stand both us and the Yams draw bigger crowds than Bournemouth do, and its not because Bournemouth are limited by capacity, they could easily have expanded their stadium but decided it wasn't worth it .... a merged Dundee club wouldn't be as crazy an idea as it is in a Scottish context in this scenario either.

European football is changing ... I cant see an Atlantic league getting off the ground, but I can definitely see the Balkan countries and the likes of Belgium and Holland and Sweden, Denmark and Norway merging their leagues to attract bigger TV audiences and in the case of the Balkans reignite old crowd pulling rivalries .... UEFA by their own recent actions have severely diluted any power they have to stop that happening.

If Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen were to sit back and watch as the OF buggered off to what is in effect a UK set up and think we could maintain the same level of interest in our clubs as there is now it would be a huge mistake IMO.

My thoughts exactly. Saved me a bit of typing in the process 👏👍

[jgl07]

But they don't have their biggest and best supported clubs playing in Spain, Italy or France as well.
Wales do.

Ok the Welsh teams have to jump through hoops to in the Europa and Champions League. But they do get three teams in the Eurpoa League and one in the Champions League, the same as Scotland even though some have to come in a qualifying round earlier.

[lord bunberry]

Sounds awful - having lived in Ireland - a similar sized county with an awful league with little media coverage and all the players desperate to go to England - I say your vision is apopylptyic - if we have the chance to join the English leagues we have to bite their hands off - Edinburgh is the best city in the UK - we have the infrastructure - thanks Rod- we have the fanbase and we have a great profile / history
The Scottish league can't be compared to the Irish league. Football is the national sport in this country and has very little competition. The Irish league has always been fighting a battle with other sports that we in this country don't. Are people who support other clubs going to stop going because the ugly sisters are here? Maybe more people might be interested in coming along once the toxic two are gone. Edinburgh, our infrastructure, our fan base and our history are all Scottish and were gained playing in the Scottish league. They won't disappear with Rangers and Celtic, or because the daily record doesn't write lies about us anymore.

[Greenworld]

Fair enough. I would, however, rather be a fairly decent sized fish in a small pond than an insignificant entity in a larger one. I love Scottish football, and will watch any game involving Scottish teams on the TV rather than watch some plastic English team that have bought their glory. Give me Partick Thistle over Man City any day of the week.
Who is to say in time that couldn't happen.
Anyway all hypothetical.
Got a job to do here and now.promo

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[Ozyhibby]

Fantasy Atlantic league based on attendances

2/ 18 team leagues

Ajax 49,403
Feyenoord 45,419
Celtic 44,849
New Rangers 45,415
PSV 32,465
FC Twente 28,518
Hammarby (Sweden) 25,507
Club Brugge (Belguim) 24,430
Herenveen 24,314
AIK (Sweden) 20,983
Anderlecht 20,675
Genk (Belguim) 20,590
Standard Liege (Belguim) 20,415
Groningen 20,193
NAC Breda 18,112
Rosenborg (Norway) 18,039
Malmo (Sweden) 17,332
Vitesse 17,212
Utrecht 16,646
Hearts 16, 423
AZ Alkmaar 15,512
Djurgardens IF (Sweden) 15,484
FC Copenhagen (Denmark) 15,448
Brondby (Denmark) 15,143
IFK Gothenborg (Sweden) 14,350
Aberdeen 13,094
PEC Zwolle 12,213
Willem II 12,099
ADO Den Haag 11,976
Hibs 11,000
IFK Norkoping (Sweden) 10,296
Viking FK (Norway) 10,272
SK Brann (Norway) 10,124
KV Mechelan (Belguim)10,160
Valerenga IF (Norway) 10,099
KAA Gent (Belguim) 10,090

Tv market
Holland 17m
Belguim 11m
Sweden 10m
Denmark 5.6m
Scotland 5.5m
Norway 5.1m
Total 52m


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[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

So are all the people with english tv money signs in their eyes, who want hibs to pursure the £ not being very hypocritical, after years of criticising the old firm for exactly this sort of craven behaviour?

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

I think we would get bored of playing the Aberdeen and Kilmarnock and motherwells every few months. Hardly fascinating stuff really. If Rangers and Celtic go we should go with them if we have any aspirations of becoming bigger and attracting more fans. A hibs v a big or semi big English club like man Utd or even Newcastle would seem more attractive to fans than hibs v st Johnstone. It would turn into something similar to the Welsh league if we stayed behind.

And the prospect of a day like may ever happening again would disappear, along with any repeat of the brondby trip.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Here's the thing, Sky created the monster that is English football as we know it, by paying over inflated money which enhanced the product and in turn brought super rich owners looking to clubs as status symbols and massive sponsorship deals, now the EPL hold them to ransom and the money they pay each year increases.

If Sky wished they could bank roll Scottish Football for a fraction of the price and create an equally attractive league up here that they could sell to their markets but instead it's all about making massive changes to the product they already own that will resent them for the change, whether that's including Celtic and The Rangers or just expanding to include further conference clubs.

I dont understand posts like this. Sky are a company interestd in profot, not some charitable foubdatiob. They have no obligation to scottish football

[norhfc]

Are they not called British Sky Broadcasting, what happened to that, they where given the rights and fair enough paid for them, but in my view they have an obligation to show Scottish football and pay for it.

[ancient hibee]

And it will quickly become boring. Even going to Ibrox, Celtic Park and Tynecastle is not really a huge deal when it comes around so often. Folk on here are asking who would want to be playing unglamorous lower league English clubs, but in reality there are wealth of big clubs all over England, many of whom would bring a big support for a day or weekend in Edinburgh, and as I said earlier I think we could establish ourselves at Championship level in a relatively short space of time. Personally I think it would add a lot of interest to the sterile Scottish game.

Have you ever looked at the attendances in the bottom two English divisions?

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Are they not called British Sky Broadcasting, what happened to that, they where given the rights and fair enough paid for them, but in my view they have an obligation to show Scottish football and pay for it.

Im fairly sure they have no obligation

[ScottB]

Are they not called British Sky Broadcasting, what happened to that, they where given the rights and fair enough paid for them, but in my view they have an obligation to show Scottish football and pay for it.

They are a private company with no obligation to do anything. Scottish football's TV rights are cheap because there's little competition for them.

If Sky decided to pay over the odds for them as some sort of charitable gesture, their shareholders would have the board strung up from lampposts.

[lord bunberry]

They are a private company with no obligation to do anything. Scottish football's TV rights are cheap because there's little competition for them.

If Sky decided to pay over the odds for them as some sort of charitable gesture, their shareholders would have the board strung up from lampposts.
If everyone cancelled their subscription, I'm sure they might reconsider their obligations.

[lucky]

Lets get realistic here ..... If the OF were shoehorned into a system that gave them access to the EPL one or both of them would make it up there in less than 8 years. If anybody thinks kids would ignore the OF teams playing the likes of Liverpool. Man Utd and Chelsea in order to stick with Hibs v Motherwell or Dundee they are deluded .... the Scottish media would devote the first 10 of the back pages to the goings on at Celtic and Rangers and the last page would have a paragraph headed 'Scottish domestic results'

If it ever comes to an English 5th division looking to include Scottish clubs we would have to seriously consider it ..... IMO both Hibs and Hearts would easily be contenders for the championship after a period of time and who knows what after that. Edinburgh is a hugely attractive city in UK terms ... its football clubs don't attract big money just now because we play in a limited market ... if we had an open door to the riches down south the sky would be the limit .... both Edinburgh clubs and Aberdeen are easily capable of the same feats as the likes of Hull City and Bournemouth if invested in ... hell, as things stand both us and the Yams draw bigger crowds than Bournemouth do, and its not because Bournemouth are limited by capacity, they could easily have expanded their stadium but decided it wasn't worth it .... a merged Dundee club wouldn't be as crazy an idea as it is in a Scottish context in this scenario either.

European football is changing ... I cant see an Atlantic league getting off the ground, but I can definitely see the Balkan countries and the likes of Belgium and Holland and Sweden, Denmark and Norway merging their leagues to attract bigger TV audiences and in the case of the Balkans reignite old crowd pulling rivalries .... UEFA by their own recent actions have severely diluted any power they have to stop that happening.

If Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen were to sit back and watch as the OF buggered off to what is in effect a UK set up and think we could maintain the same level of interest in our clubs as there is now it would be a huge mistake IMO.

Excellent post. If this change happens we need to be involved as our league would end up a backwater. For those saying the English don't want the old firm just look at comments that are made about European nights at Parkhead and Ibrox by co commentators

[G B Young]

Have you ever looked at the attendances in the bottom two English divisions?

I have, but I've also seen the quality of football on offer and it's not something we would struggle with. My point is more that if we could establish ourselves at Championship level then crowds would be very healthy given some of the clubs in there. You look at the attendances Welsh clubs like Swansea (when they were in the second tier) and Cardiff can draw from cities whose populations combined are probably only about the same as Edinburgh and there's no reason the bigger Scottish clubs couldn't thrive. It might be fans would pick and choose their away days a bit more, but I'd certainly be more enthused about a weekend trip to Newcastle, Villa, Forest, QPR, Cardiff etc than a visit to, say, Motherwell. All hypothetical of course but for me it's the way ahead. Those who think being left to fight it out for the Scottish title without the Old Firm would be healthy for the Scottish game financially are dreaming. Just look at the media switch-off from the Championship now that The Rangers are no longer in it. We'd lose the TV deals as soon as the Old Firm departed and be left with what few crumbs BBC Scotland or STV could feed us.

[NAE NOOKIE]

So are all the people with english tv money signs in their eyes, who want hibs to pursure the £ not being very hypocritical, after years of criticising the old firm for exactly this sort of craven behaviour?

Its got nothing to do with that mate. This is not a case of Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen etc whoring themselves to the English leagues or standing with our noses pressed to the glass wanting to join the party. We see the OF doing that and rightly give it to them tight for it. This is a case of facing up to reality and deciding what would be best for us if circumstances change, that is something every one of Scotland's top 5 clubs outwith the old firm have to consider if it comes to it.

If the OF were to bugger off to a league on the Moon or the arse end of the world then the Scottish league would be a happier and probably more successful league, but the fact is they wouldn't be, they would still be right on our doorstep. We already face competition to stop our kids ( and some sad adults ) ignoring Scottish football to become armchair fans of the EPL. If there was two Scottish clubs that these kids could attach themselves to within easy travelling distance operating in that league do you honestly think we wouldn't lose our future fanbase to them in droves?

I absolutely guarantee you that within a decade Scottish clubs would be shutting stands and in some cases closing altogether, while Celtic and Rangers are fighting it out with Glasgow city council to get their planning applications for 80 and 90 thousand capacity stadiums accepted.

Its a fact that if the OF were to totally disappear tomorrow the Scottish league would thrive as competition became more open and people came back to watch 4 or 5 clubs fight it out for the league instead of the same two all the time. But the truth is that the clubs would still be in competition with the OF for supporters and media interest and its a battle where we would get our arse kicked.

[Ozyhibby]

Its got nothing to do with that mate. This is not a case of Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen etc whoring themselves to the English leagues or standing with our noses pressed to the glass wanting to join the party. We see the OF doing that and rightly give it to them tight for it. This is a case of facing up to reality and deciding what would be best for us if circumstances change, that is something every one of Scotland's top 5 clubs outwith the old firm have to consider if it comes to it.

If the OF were to bugger off to a league on the Moon or the arse end of the world then the Scottish league would be a happier and probably more successful league, but the fact is they wouldn't be, they would still be right on our doorstep. We already face competition to stop our kids ( and some sad adults ) ignoring Scottish football to become armchair fans of the EPL. If there was two Scottish clubs that these kids could attach themselves to within easy travelling distance operating in that league do you honestly think we wouldn't lose our future fanbase to them in droves?

I absolutely guarantee you that within a decade Scottish clubs would be shutting stands and in some cases closing altogether, while Celtic and Rangers are fighting it out with Glasgow city council to get their planning applications for 80 and 90 thousand capacity stadiums accepted.

Its a fact that if the OF were to totally disappear tomorrow the Scottish league would thrive as competition became more open and people came back to watch 4 or 5 clubs fight it out for the league instead of the same two all the time. But the truth is that the clubs would still be in competition with the OF for supporters and media interest and its a battle where we would get our arse kicked.

That's exactly right. We have to be ready for change. I think it's coming whether we like it or not. Better to be involved and shaping that change than just accepting the crumbs.


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[WeeRussell]

If Hibs are going to be competing in an "English 5th division" - I'm glad I seen us win the Scottish Cup before I give up altogether.

Absolutely no!

[Lancs Harp]

This story regarding the OF playing in England goes ballistic in Scotland at regular periods, it barely registers in England. Celtic and Rangers will never play in England and a 5th division with Scottish clubs will not happen. Clubs surely cant just choose which country they want to play in if so I suggest we apply to the Spanish league, great competition great weather.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Its got nothing to do with that mate. This is not a case of Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen etc whoring themselves to the English leagues or standing with our noses pressed to the glass wanting to join the party. We see the OF doing that and rightly give it to them tight for it. This is a case of facing up to reality and deciding what would be best for us if circumstances change, that is something every one of Scotland's top 5 clubs outwith the old firm have to consider if it comes to it.

If the OF were to bugger off to a league on the Moon or the arse end of the world then the Scottish league would be a happier and probably more successful league, but the fact is they wouldn't be, they would still be right on our doorstep. We already face competition to stop our kids ( and some sad adults ) ignoring Scottish football to become armchair fans of the EPL. If there was two Scottish clubs that these kids could attach themselves to within easy travelling distance operating in that league do you honestly think we wouldn't lose our future fanbase to them in droves?

I absolutely guarantee you that within a decade Scottish clubs would be shutting stands and in some cases closing altogether, while Celtic and Rangers are fighting it out with Glasgow city council to get their planning applications for 80 and 90 thousand capacity stadiums accepted.

Its a fact that if the OF were to totally disappear tomorrow the Scottish league would thrive as competition became more open and people came back to watch 4 or 5 clubs fight it out for the league instead of the same two all the time. But the truth is that the clubs would still be in competition with the OF for supporters and media interest and its a battle where we would get our arse kicked.

I disagree, yeah.

I think you overstate the draw of the old firm, and underestimate both the appeal of winning teams and also of actually attending matches.

You take the very pessimistic view, and what you say might come to pass.

But i have a sneaky feeling that at least one of them will not thrive, amd faced with the prospect of sustained mediocrity at best, no europe, few big cup games amd periodic hammerings from the big cluns that they cannot match, the like of they just dont get here, will have a lot of the glory huntersdisappearing.

Also, they would go from being apex clubs to just one of many who are cherry- picked every year by the really big clubs in england. They wouldnt have the run of away fixrures anymore like they are used to, and i think they would be in for a right culture shock.

Of course one or both could be bought by a sheikh, but they would be just as likely to be bought by a mike ashley, randy lerner or that mad chinese guy who jad cardiff city.

Theold firm have huge supports, but they ae built up on regular success amd europe. Newcastle utd havent won a trophy since the 60s, do you honestly think either of the old firm would atill be getting those crowds if that were true of them?

[NAE NOOKIE]

I disagree, yeah.

I think you overstate the draw of the old firm, and underestimate both the appeal of winning teams and also of actually attending matches.

You take the very pessimistic view, and what you say might come to pass.

But i have a sneaky feeling that at least one of them will not thrive, amd faced with the prospect of sustained mediocrity at best, no europe, few big cup games amd periodic hammerings from the big cluns that they cannot match, the like of they just dont get here, will have a lot of the glory huntersdisappearing.

Also, they would go from being apex clubs to just one of many who are cherry- picked every year by the really big clubs in england. They wouldnt have the run of away fixrures anymore like they are used to, and i think they would be in for a right culture shock.

Of course one or both could be bought by a sheikh, but they would be just as likely to be bought by a mike ashley, randy lerner or that mad chinese guy who jad cardiff city.

Theold firm have huge supports, but they ae built up on regular success amd europe. Newcastle utd havent won a trophy since the 60s, do you honestly think either of the old firm would atill be getting those crowds if that were true of them?

For the EPL glory hunters just being in that league is success for them, the glamour of it is enough to maintain interest .... never mind Newcastle, every English club in the EPL plays in front of near full or sell out stadiums, even though most of them have utterly no chance of winning the league, Leicester City are very much the exception and another one turning up in the next 20 years is highly unlikely.

The old firm would become part of that mindset and even if they couldn't sustain their support in the long term by the time it dropped off the damage would have been done .... culture shock or not I don't think we could thrive in that scenario.

IMO I'm not being pessimistic ... I'm being realistic.

[ScottB]

If everyone cancelled their subscription, I'm sure they might reconsider their obligations.

Everyone? Why is everyone going to do that?

What you mean is the percentage of Scottish subscribers that are apparently paying for the service but would cancel it in protest at Scottish football not getting more money out of the kindness of their hearts.

I'd imagine that's going to be a figure that they wouldn't notice.

[NAE NOOKIE]

This story regarding the OF playing in England goes ballistic in Scotland at regular periods, it barely registers in England. Celtic and Rangers will never play in England and a 5th division with Scottish clubs will not happen. Clubs surely cant just choose which country they want to play in if so I suggest we apply to the Spanish league, great competition great weather.

The OF being parachuted into the EPL or even an EPL2 was always highly unlikely ..... what is being talked about here is a whole different ball game. In the recent report into the state of the game by an authoritative source which was mentioned on this site recently there was a surprising amount of support from clubs in the lower reaches of English football for the possibility of Scottish clubs being considered in a revamp of the English leagues .... it was less than 50% of the clubs who responded as I recall, but certainly a lot higher than I would have expected.

Under UEFA rules clubs cant simply choose what league to play in as you say ..... but as Jean Marc Bosman proved all to well, what UEFA wants and what UEFA gets isn't always the same thing and under EU and even Scottish or English law I'm willing to bet any club taking this to a court of law would win hands down.

[heid the baw]

Real Madrid earned 80 mil for winning the Champions League.
Aston Villa's reward for amassing 17 points in the EPL last season was 92 mil.
Celtic and New Rangers getting invited into the English league system is not going to happen

[Scott Allan Key]

I disagree, yeah.

I think you overstate the draw of the old firm, and underestimate both the appeal of winning teams and also of actually attending matches.

You take the very pessimistic view, and what you say might come to pass.

But i have a sneaky feeling that at least one of them will not thrive, amd faced with the prospect of sustained mediocrity at best, no europe, few big cup games amd periodic hammerings from the big cluns that they cannot match, the like of they just dont get here, will have a lot of the glory huntersdisappearing.

Also, they would go from being apex clubs to just one of many who are cherry- picked every year by the really big clubs in england. They wouldnt have the run of away fixrures anymore like they are used to, and i think they would be in for a right culture shock.

Of course one or both could be bought by a sheikh, but they would be just as likely to be bought by a mike ashley, randy lerner or that mad chinese guy who jad cardiff city.

Theold firm have huge supports, but they ae built up on regular success amd europe. Newcastle utd havent won a trophy since the 60s, do you honestly think either of the old firm would atill be getting those crowds if that were true of them?


I think you make some good points. The Old Firm takes much of their support on anachronistic sectarian conflict with each side feeling a sense of entitlement to their football successes married to mixture of grievance, inflated sense of self worth. Not uncommon in football, and some Rangers fans can look at Chelsea supporters and the abyss will stare back.

But I do think, their non-local support can easily jump ship over a period of time of limited success and Hibs in Edinburgh in a similar sporting environment might make a more welcoming investment to a foreign business given Edinburgh's status as a political and financial centre. I also think the politics of sectarianism will not be such a taboo subject in England and this will make their acceptability as modern institutions of sporting attachment less attractive in the spotlight. I'm not saying they have much scruples but would a Emirati sheikh pass the 'fat and protestant' test? Celtic board might be more adaptable.

Personally, I'd like independence as well as cross border leagues across Europe. Hibs are in good position to take advantage of this. If Swansea can do it and qualify for Europe we could too. We don't have to be a backwater. It might be fun watching the Old firm die.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

The OF being parachuted into the EPL or even an EPL2 was always highly unlikely ..... what is being talked about here is a whole different ball game. In the recent report into the state of the game by an authoritative source which was mentioned on this site recently there was a surprising amount of support from clubs in the lower reaches of English football for the possibility of Scottish clubs being considered in a revamp of the English leagues .... it was less than 50% of the clubs who responded as I recall, but certainly a lot higher than I would have expected.

Under UEFA rules clubs cant simply choose what league to play in as you say ..... but as Jean Marc Bosman proved all to well, what UEFA wants and what UEFA gets isn't always the same thing and under EU and even Scottish or English law I'm willing to bet any club taking this to a court of law would win hands down.


Yeah i get that, but none of those clubs come with the expectation, the demand, that they be successful with 130 years of knowing nothing but.

Im not saying they would habe no fans, im just sayinh they are also pretty fickle and dont respond well to not getting their oen way.

Imagine for example, a league where celtic, backed by desmond et al amd probably numerous others, are up there fighting it out with the big boys and adapt well.

But the rangers are struggling going nowhere in mid table, having their best players cherry picked every year so being unable to build, amd looking more at relegation. They would not be an appealing prospect to atttact any casual fan.

Im not saying youre wrong, just that it is only one poasible scenario with others just as likely

[Lancs Harp]

There is no ground swell of support for the OF to play in England, in England. You could argue the English league game has never had it so good, certainly never been as powerful, it simply doesn't need Celtic or Rangers at all. Then as discussed there are added issues of teams from one country playing in another country. This had been debated for quite sometime north of the border now and its still no nearer to even being a twinkling in the EPL/English football league eye. We'll still be debating this in 10 yeas time and the position will still be the same as it was 10 years ago. We are far more likely to see a European Super League of some kind before we see Celtic and Rangers playing in the English pyramid system.

[jgl07]

Excellent post. If this change happens we need to be involved as our league would end up a backwater. For those saying the English don't want the old firm just look at comments that are made about European nights at Parkhead and Ibrox by co commentators
Yes the English can hardly wait to get Rangers and Celtic playing there regularly:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7401814.stm

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/local-news/rangers-fans-jailed-after-manchester-898127


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNA4GkVVHCQ

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/11911386.Trip_to_the_red_rose_county_remembered_fo r_the_wrong_reasons/

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/4732182.Why_we_cannot_expose_Blackburn_and_Burnley _to_Old_Firm_madness/?ref=rss

[monktonharp]

I think Hibs would do quite well in England. The quality of the game there is overrated and I'd be confident we could go on to establish ourselves at Championship level fairly quickly. Certainly some form of UK league has been long overdue (in my view).your view is everything uk, in some form or the other

[monktonharp]

Its got nothing to do with that mate. This is not a case of Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen etc whoring themselves to the English leagues or standing with our noses pressed to the glass wanting to join the party. We see the OF doing that and rightly give it to them tight for it. This is a case of facing up to reality and deciding what would be best for us if circumstances change, that is something every one of Scotland's top 5 clubs outwith the old firm have to consider if it comes to it.

If the OF were to bugger off to a league on the Moon or the arse end of the world then the Scottish league would be a happier and probably more successful league, but the fact is they wouldn't be, they would still be right on our doorstep. We already face competition to stop our kids ( and some sad adults ) ignoring Scottish football to become armchair fans of the EPL. If there was two Scottish clubs that these kids could attach themselves to within easy travelling distance operating in that league do you honestly think we wouldn't lose our future fanbase to them in droves?

I absolutely guarantee you that within a decade Scottish clubs would be shutting stands and in some cases closing altogether, while Celtic and Rangers are fighting it out with Glasgow city council to get their planning applications for 80 and 90 thousand capacity stadiums accepted.

Its a fact that if the OF were to totally disappear tomorrow the Scottish league would thrive as competition became more open and people came back to watch 4 or 5 clubs fight it out for the league instead of the same two all the time. But the truth is that the clubs would still be in competition with the OF for supporters and media interest and its a battle where we would get our arse kicked. when the Hibs go up , to win the EPL, we'll be deid, when the Hibs go up...........:singing:

[GreenCastle]

England don't need or want the Old Firm.

Zero chance of them getting dropped into the EPL either - can you imagine a team like Leeds reaction?!

They would have start at the bottom and as many have shown its not that easy to make your way up the pyramid.

Scottish football does have an issue as its falling further behind the money of England but at the same time it can still be an attractive product if changes were made. The issue is we have clowns in charge of our game who can't even get our own basic league structure right.

Of course of by miracle anything ever did transpire I would expect Hibs to seriously consider options and what would benefit and grow the club long term.

[NAE NOOKIE]

when the Hibs go up , to win the EPL, we'll be deid, when the Hibs go up...........:singing:

Now yer just being silly http://www.hibs.net/images/smilies/taunt%20smiley.gif

[Rougier45]

Everyone? Why is everyone going to do that?

What you mean is the percentage of Scottish subscribers that are apparently paying for the service but would cancel it in protest at Scottish football not getting more money out of the kindness of their hearts.

I'd imagine that's going to be a figure that they wouldn't notice.


There is a huge amount of Scottish subscribers / more than 10% - and they split the Scottish offering do you need to get BT AND sky it's a complete rip off -they assume in Scotland we pay to watch the EPL / this is what viewing figures probably reflect - however I suggest scots pay to watch Rangers / hearts but watch Man U / city etc / if Scottish clubs did their own deal with say Amazon or Virgin and then told Scots fans to turn of EPL - then who knows - when there Scottish revenues where hit - I bet more than 10% of subscribers they might then pay us the going rate for our product -

[G B Young]

Incorporate all teams in the UK into a British-wide league setup, retain the national cup competitions and merge the League Cups into a UK Cup. Sorted.

I agree it would be good to retain the FA Cup and the Scottish Cup in their current format due to the romance attached to both, but a UK-wide League Cup would have some potential, and I do wonder if the tinkering with the Challenge Cup this season to incorporate Welsh and NI clubs is a hint that the SFA are testing the waters regarding future national tournaments. It would be better played at weekends though to cut down on too many midweek matches involving long distance travel.

[Moulin Yarns]

I dont understand posts like this. Sky are a company interestd in profot, not some charitable foubdatiob. They have no obligation to scottish football


I have found my word of the day :greengrin

[jgl07]

Are they not called British Sky Broadcasting, what happened to that, they where given the rights and fair enough paid for them, but in my view they have an obligation to show Scottish football and pay for it.
Do British Petroleum offer cheap fuel in the UK?

Do BSkyB have to obligation to cover Welsh and Northern Irish Football? And pay the same as they pay to the English Premier League?

Scottish Football gets paid what it's worth. It's not a matter of money as teams like Maribor have demonstrated over and over again.

[chippy]

Fantasy Atlantic league based on attendances

2/ 18 team leagues

Ajax 49,403
Feyenoord 45,419
Celtic 44,849
New Rangers 45,415
PSV 32,465
FC Twente 28,518
Hammarby (Sweden) 25,507
Club Brugge (Belguim) 24,430
Herenveen 24,314
AIK (Sweden) 20,983
Anderlecht 20,675
Genk (Belguim) 20,590
Standard Liege (Belguim) 20,415
Groningen 20,193
NAC Breda 18,112
Rosenborg (Norway) 18,039
Malmo (Sweden) 17,332
Vitesse 17,212
Utrecht 16,646
Hearts 16, 423
AZ Alkmaar 15,512
Djurgardens IF (Sweden) 15,484
FC Copenhagen (Denmark) 15,448
Brondby (Denmark) 15,143
IFK Gothenborg (Sweden) 14,350
Aberdeen 13,094
PEC Zwolle 12,213
Willem II 12,099
ADO Den Haag 11,976
Hibs 11,000
IFK Norkoping (Sweden) 10,296
Viking FK (Norway) 10,272
SK Brann (Norway) 10,124
KV Mechelan (Belguim)10,160
Valerenga IF (Norway) 10,099
KAA Gent (Belguim) 10,090

Tv market
Holland 17m
Belguim 11m
Sweden 10m
Denmark 5.6m
Scotland 5.5m
Norway 5.1m
Total 52mt


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Is anyone in the 'leadership' of Scottish football actually pursuing anything like this? Are any journalists delving into the possibilities and talking to leaders here and in the potential countries.?Is there any dialogue with TV companies?

i do wonder if the Dutch and Belgians may not go for an AL. However I think the Scandic countries would be perhaps more amenable.

Do you think it might be a better bet to run the AL in parallel with Domestic leagues. Say the spfl premier was 16 clubs top 4-6 qualify each year and AL is run on a Champs league format. In this way you keep the integrity of your own league whilst developing the AL format. The AL concept is dependant on a big TV deal. It's possible that the clubs themselves could set something up especially if you had the Low Countries involved. If it was just Scandics and Scots would we want to expand the market by including Finland , Ireland and Iceland? Although weak in terms of club football at the moment these countries I suspect in the right format could develop well supported clubs from their big cities. If you subtract the Dutch and Belgians and replace with Finland, Ireland and Iceland you would have an overall population of 35 million.

Pie in the sky? Probably but something is likely to happen and hope Hibs have their mitts on it

[Keith_M]

Are they there yet?

[G B Young]

Is anyone in the 'leadership' of Scottish football actually pursuing anything like this? Are any journalists delving into the possibilities and talking to leaders here and in the potential countries.?Is there any dialogue with TV companies?

Scottish football seems bereft of such leadership. Even securing a sponsor for our domestic competitions is almost beyond those who run the game. As for journalists, you just need to watch an episode of 'Scotland's Game' to see most of these guys attempting to come across as wise after the event about the financial meltdown which hit Rangers, Hearts etc to realise that there are very few out there who would know how 'delve into the possibilities' of a more vibrant league. Most of them write about football because they're football fans, not financial analysts or strategists.

Bottom line, the general mentality is that change of this nature is perceived as too complicated despite the fact the game is long overdue an overhaul, whether that's an Atlantic league or a UK league. When you ask why change shouldn't be possible, most can come up with little better than 'this is just the way Scottish football is' and so on we go just playing the same old teams several times a season.

[LancsHibs]

Why is it being called an Atlantic League? Geographically incorrect!

[Ozyhibby]

Is anyone in the 'leadership' of Scottish football actually pursuing anything like this? Are any journalists delving into the possibilities and talking to leaders here and in the potential countries.?Is there any dialogue with TV companies?

i do wonder if the Dutch and Belgians may not go for an AL. However I think the Scandic countries would be perhaps more amenable.

Do you think it might be a better bet to run the AL in parallel with Domestic leagues. Say the spfl premier was 16 clubs top 4-6 qualify each year and AL is run on a Champs league format. In this way you keep the integrity of your own league whilst developing the AL format. The AL concept is dependant on a big TV deal. It's possible that the clubs themselves could set something up especially if you had the Low Countries involved. If it was just Scandics and Scots would we want to expand the market by including Finland , Ireland and Iceland? Although weak in terms of club football at the moment these countries I suspect in the right format could develop well supported clubs from their big cities. If you subtract the Dutch and Belgians and replace with Finland, Ireland and Iceland you would have an overall population of 35 million.

Pie in the sky? Probably but something is likely to happen and hope Hibs have their mitts on it

I doubt it could run in parallel with domestic league as the top clubs would still want to play in the champions league.
I like Scottish football but I can see that change is coming anyway, so I would prefer it to be something like this than just joining the English leagues.



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[jgl07]

Is anyone in the 'leadership' of Scottish football actually pursuing anything like this? Are any journalists delving into the possibilities and talking to leaders here and in the potential countries.?Is there any dialogue with TV companies?

i do wonder if the Dutch and Belgians may not go for an AL. However I think the Scandic countries would be perhaps more amenable.

Do you think it might be a better bet to run the AL in parallel with Domestic leagues. Say the spfl premier was 16 clubs top 4-6 qualify each year and AL is run on a Champs league format. In this way you keep the integrity of your own league whilst developing the AL format. The AL concept is dependant on a big TV deal. It's possible that the clubs themselves could set something up especially if you had the Low Countries involved. If it was just Scandics and Scots would we want to expand the market by including Finland , Ireland and Iceland? Although weak in terms of club football at the moment these countries I suspect in the right format could develop well supported clubs from their big cities. If you subtract the Dutch and Belgians and replace with Finland, Ireland and Iceland you would have an overall population of 35 million.

Pie in the sky? Probably but something is likely to happen and hope Hibs have their mitts on it
No-one has answered if this would be in addition to the domestic Leagues or if it would reduce them to feeder leagues as part of a huge pyramid.

The Scandinavians, or at least Sweden, Denmark and Norway, tried this recently with the Royal League from 2004-5 to 2007-8. It involved the top four teams from each country. It obviously failed to catch on! I suppose that the Anglo-Scottish Cup from 1975-6 to 1980-1 was a similar idea.

UEFA appeared to have agreed to the merger of the Dutch and Belgian Leagues and also the Russian and Ukrainian Leagues. Neither went ahead and the latter certainly will not.

If you cannot get things through like a merger of the Scandinavian League and the Low Countries, the prospect of a merger involving seven eight or nine leagues is never going to happen.

[Ozyhibby]

No-one has answered if this would be in addition to the domestic Leagues or if it would reduce them to feeder leagues as part of a huge pyramid.

The Scandinavians, or at least Sweden, Denmark and Norway, tried this recently with the Royal League from 2004-5 to 2007-8. It involved the top four teams from each country. It obviously failed to catch on! I suppose that the Anglo-Scottish Cup from 1975-6 to 1980-1 was a similar idea.

UEFA appeared to have agreed to the merger of the Dutch and Belgian Leagues and also the Russian and Ukrainian Leagues. Neither went ahead and the latter certainly will not.

If you cannot get things through like a merger of the Scandinavian League and the Low Countries, the prospect of a merger involving seven eight or nine leagues is never going to happen.

I'm pretty sure that neither UEFA or FIFA would stand in the way if the club's wanted to do it. What it will require is leadership from a few of the top clubs to produce a proposal along with broadcast partners. There would be massive interest from sponsors because of the international appeal of the league and any TV deal would dwarf what is available in Scotland just now.
What I am certain of is that those left behind will be just that. I doubt there would be a pyramid set up as it would be too complicated to arrange.


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[chippy]

I'm pretty sure that neither UEFA or FIFA would stand in the way if the club's wanted to do it. What it will require is leadership from a few of the top clubs to produce a proposal along with broadcast partners. There would be massive interest from sponsors because of the international appeal of the league and any TV deal would dwarf what is available in Scotland just now.
What I am certain of is that those left behind will be just that. I doubt there would be a pyramid set up as it would be too complicated to arrange.


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Yes ozy I think your correct that its leadership of a few clubs but with a biig TV offer to make this happen. Your probably right that there will be no pyramid. They don't want small town clubs with limited support. Hibs could probably get into a second tier and I hope that Hibs don't let left in the lurch by the OF Hertz and Aberdeen. Think it's only the city clubs with large fan bases that will interest TV and sponsors hopefully we can get ourselves in the door. I know some cross border competitions have bend tried but this is a different era with the 4 big leagues becoming ever more dominant and the bigger clubs in the Scotland , Scandanavia, Netherlands and Belgium being left behind. Are these clubs all going to sit on their hands and watch as the more populous leagues soak up all the money?

[jgl07]

I'm pretty sure that neither UEFA or FIFA would stand in the way if the club's wanted to do it. What it will require is leadership from a few of the top clubs to produce a proposal along with broadcast partners. There would be massive interest from sponsors because of the international appeal of the league and any TV deal would dwarf what is available in Scotland just now.
What I am certain of is that those left behind will be just that. I doubt there would be a pyramid set up as it would be too complicated to arrange.

You are missing the point. It is not UEFA who are blocking things, it is that there is no enthusiasm for this either from the clubs or for the fans. I doubt if the broadcasters will be that interested either.

This idea was mooted in the 1990s and got nowhere. They the bigot brothers set their sights on a move to the English Premiership which would certainly be vetoed by UEFA even assuming you could persuade the bottom half teams in the English Premier League to vote themselves out of it and forgo £90 million in the process.

[Ozyhibby]

You are missing the point. It is not UEFA who are blocking things, it is that there is no enthusiasm for this either from the clubs or for the fans. I doubt if the broadcasters will be that interested either.

This idea was mooted in the 1990s and got nowhere. They the bigot brothers set their sights on a move to the English Premiership which would certainly be vetoed by UEFA even assuming you could persuade the bottom half teams in the English Premier League to vote themselves out of it and forgo £90 million in the process.

I was more talking about an Atlantic league scenario rather than us joining the English set up which I think is a no go. Clubs like Bournmouth would see us as a threat, never mind the old firm.
An Atlantic league set up just needs Celtic, Ajax, PSV etc to want it and it can happen. Clubs like Ajax are very concerned that they can't compete for players with the like of Crystal palace, Stoke and Bournmouth. I think there will be movement soon.


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[jacomo]

I was more talking about an Atlantic league scenario rather than us joining the English set up which I think is a no go. Clubs like Bournmouth would see us as a threat, never mind the old firm.
An Atlantic league set up just needs Celtic, Ajax, PSV etc to want it and it can happen. Clubs like Ajax are very concerned that they can't compete for players with the like of Crystal palace, Stoke and Bournmouth. I think there will be movement soon.


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Best to keep The Zombies out though. No one wants them.

[Ozyhibby]

Best to keep The Zombies out though. No one wants them.

The way their finances are they will probably manage that all by themselves. [emoji23]


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[G B Young]

You are missing the point. It is not UEFA who are blocking things, it is that there is no enthusiasm for this either from the clubs or for the fans. I doubt if the broadcasters will be that interested either.

This idea was mooted in the 1990s and got nowhere. They the bigot brothers set their sights on a move to the English Premiership which would certainly be vetoed by UEFA even assuming you could persuade the bottom half teams in the English Premier League to vote themselves out of it and forgo £90 million in the process.

How do we know there is no enthusiasm from the clubs or the fans? 1990 was more than a quarter of a century ago. I'd be very surprised if the clubs weren't interested in something that would liven up a tired old format and the same goes for the broadcasters who are hardly falling over themselves to throw money at Scottish football in its current form. And as a fan I'd be all for it.

[Keith_M]

Can't see there being much demand for tickets for an away game in Tromsø

[Malthibby]

Need to concentrate on fixing our own game. The under-21 result said it all, we have dropped off the back of international footie
because we are run by groups of talentless suits whose sole purpose in life is to suck up to Sevco & Celtic; nothing else apparently matters.
No vision, no development, just decades of failure for which no-one is held to account.
Wish the rest of the teams would grow a collective pair & plan a future without the Bigot Brothers, they'll drop everyone else given
half a chance, & picking up the crumbs they throw while they scheme to get away gies me the dry boak.

[G B Young]

Can't see there being much demand for tickets for an away game in Tromsø

Maybe not, but the potential to book a weekend away in, say, Amsterdam or Stockholm would be enticing. As would a trip to St James Park or Villa Park instead of Fir Park or Dens Park.

[G B Young]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37289352

Doncaster predicting more cross-border matches in future. First time I think I've ever agreed with him on anything.

[Malthibby]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37289352

Doncaster predicting more cross-border matches in future. First time I think I've ever agreed with him on anything.


Man's only talking on behalf of the Infirm, whether it's cross-border, leave for the border or repel all borders (who ain't bigots).
They can gtf, & take Doncaster, Reagan et al with them; none of this is about the well-being of the rest of us.

[Ozyhibby]

Man's only talking on behalf of the Infirm, whether it's cross-border, leave for the border or repel all borders (who ain't bigots).
They can gtf, & take Doncaster, Reagan et al with them; none of this is about the well-being of the rest of us.

But it is coming and we should be prepared.


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[Michael]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37289352

Doncaster predicting more cross-border matches in future. First time I think I've ever agreed with him on anything.

John Hartson:

"Teams like Motherwell, Dundee, they're very reliant on Celtic and Rangers, especially with the feel-good factor back now and playing in front of full houses. If you watch Motherwell most weeks there are 4,500 there, when Celtic go there are 18,000 people there."

Surely there's a health and safety issue letting 18000 people into a 13000 seater stadium???

[Kaiser1962]

John Hartson:

"Teams like Motherwell, Dundee, they're very reliant on Celtic and Rangers, especially with the feel-good factor back now and playing in front of full houses. If you watch Motherwell most weeks there are 4,500 there, when Celtic go there are 18,000 people there."

Surely there's a health and safety issue letting 18000 people into a 13000 seater stadium???



Motherwell home attendances versus Celtic in 2015-2016 were 8,888 0n 17th October 2015 and 9,123 on 9th April 2016.

They only met once in 2014-2015 when 7,740 attended on 6th December 2014. They played Sevco in the play off 2nd leg and 9,220 saw that one.

[offshorehibby]

Also noticed John Kennedy bumping his gums about letting colt teams into lower leagues. Some other numpty on about youths not getting experience against 1st team players.

They'd be getting that experience if the infirm hadn't wanted the reserve league scrapped.

[norhfc]

Do British Petroleum offer cheap fuel in the UK?

Do BSkyB have to obligation to cover Welsh and Northern Irish Football? And pay the same as they pay to the English Premier League?

Scottish Football gets paid what it's worth. It's not a matter of money as teams like Maribor have demonstrated over and over again.

Not saying Scottish football should get the same as EPL but a bit of wealth distribution would be welcome. The 2nd and 3rd tiers in English football are coining it in with crowds about the same as Hibs and Hearts. Apart from the top 2/3 in Championship I pretty sure SPL is of the similar standard.

[weonlywon6-2]

Won't happen. England doesn't want it, doesn't need it either.
Adding the Glasgow teams will just enhance the sectarian bile so ain't happening imo

[WeeRussell]

Maybe not, but the potential to book a weekend away in, say, Amsterdam or Stockholm would be enticing. As would a trip to St James Park or Villa Park instead of Fir Park or Dens Park.

That's what rare, exciting European ties are for. Doing it every few weeks wouldn't be the same and wouldn't be realistic for 99% of our fans.

Some of our support can't afford to attend home games right now!!!

[Ozyhibby]

That's what rare, exciting European ties are for. Doing it every few weeks wouldn't be the same and wouldn't be realistic for 99% of our fans.

Some of our support can't afford to attend home games right now!!!

There would obviously be less people travelling to away games but I'm certain we would get bigger crowds at Easter road.


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[KWJ]

Suppose the question is, does Sky want it?

True, and they could supply the incentive to the other EFL clubs.

But would they? The extra interest that would be brought into the EFL would need to outweigh what they'd lose from Scotland. Although they could (and hopefully would, maybe) continue to show the SPFL as well.

[WeeRussell]

There would obviously be less people travelling to away games but I'm certain we would get bigger crowds at Easter road.


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I would say you're right with that. Would it be Hibs fans as we know them now though, or would it move towards the less-atmospheric, rich, corporate and tourist type crowds that are willing to pay the ridiculous ticket prices at a lot of England's bigger clubs? I'm not saying that's a good or a bad thing, but I think it definitely would be different.

I for one wouldn't feel the same affinity with Hibs if we were not competing as a Scottish club in a Scottish league, with the fans that have followed the club since 1902.

I don't think it will happen, but just giving my stubborn tuppence worth if it were to :aok:

[chippy]

I'll support Hibs in whatever league we end up in. But change is coming re cross border leagues. Colt sides in League 2 looks like a further move in that direction. I'd anticipate an expanded Premier league up here possibly Colt clubs in a reformed 3rd tier perhaps including Hibs Hertz Dons this preparing the framework for movement of 1st teams into Atlantic or UK league. The 2nd teams play in SPFL. All dependent on big TV money of course.

[Lancs Harp]

As I posted earlier, a UK league just isn't on the agenda down here. In ten years time you'll still be having the same debate as you were ten year before. I don't know what the answer is for Scottish football but its certainly not its teams playing in a different country or in some kind of United UK league, its just not going to happen fellas, English clubs don't need it nor want it and neither does its Sky pay masters not to mention the scared rights of independent football associations. Just won happen IMO, ever.

[G B Young]

I would say you're right with that. Would it be Hibs fans as we know them now though, or would it move towards the less-atmospheric, rich, corporate and tourist type crowds that are willing to pay the ridiculous ticket prices at a lot of England's bigger clubs? I'm not saying that's a good or a bad thing, but I think it definitely would be different.

I for one wouldn't feel the same affinity with Hibs if we were not competing as a Scottish club in a Scottish league, with the fans that have followed the club since 1902.

I don't think it will happen, but just giving my stubborn tuppence worth if it were to :aok:

I see no reason why the traditional Hibs support wouldn't continue to make up the bulk of the crowd at Easter Road. And if numbers were boosted by those attracted by the fact we were playing more interesting opposition then all the better I say.

[Rougier45]

As I posted earlier, a UK league just isn't on the agenda down here. In ten years time you'll still be having the same debate as you were ten year before. I don't know what the answer is for Scottish football but its certainly not its teams playing in a different country or in some kind of United UK league, its just not going to happen fellas, English clubs don't need it nor want it and neither does its Sky pay masters not to mention the scared rights of independent football associations. Just won happen IMO, ever.



Maybe ayes maybe no -being English doesn't give you dibs on what everyone thinks .

THE EPL is a world league -its as English as Zola Budd -there are very few English , players or managers - that leaves the lower leagues Championship et al as the English leagues and they would welcome the infirm -more money, exposure, crowds and Sky would love it .


Who knows if the infirm would do well or hibs or hertz but this is going to happen .

[Rougier45]

[QUOTE=WeeRussell;4813155]I would say you're right with that. Would it be Hibs fans as we know them now though, or would it move towards the less-atmospheric, rich, corporate and tourist type crowds that are willing to pay the ridiculous ticket prices at a lot of England's bigger clubs? I'm not saying that's a good or a bad thing, but I think it definitely would be different.



what nonsense -all grounds are full =90% are proper fans

only thing is the English are boring hence the rubbish atmospheres he heh

[The_Todd]

I would say you're right with that. Would it be Hibs fans as we know them now though, or would it move towards the less-atmospheric, rich, corporate and tourist type crowds that are willing to pay the ridiculous ticket prices at a lot of England's bigger clubs? I'm not saying that's a good or a bad thing, but I think it definitely would be different.

I for one wouldn't feel the same affinity with Hibs if we were not competing as a Scottish club in a Scottish league, with the fans that have followed the club since 1902.

I don't think it will happen, but just giving my stubborn tuppence worth if it were to :aok:

Only the glory hunters have been supporting Hibs since 1902. I'm a real fan and have been since 1875.

[Lancs Harp]

Maybe ayes maybe no -being English doesn't give you dibs on what everyone thinks .

THE EPL is a world league -its as English as Zola Budd -there are very few English , players or managers - that leaves the lower leagues Championship et al as the English leagues and they would welcome the infirm -more money, exposure, crowds and Sky would love it .


Who knows if the infirm would do well or hibs or hertz but this is going to happen . where did say it did? Aren't I allowed an opinion? Like I said this debate will still be doing the rounds in 10 years. Its a million miles away from the agenda in England, whether you like it or not.

[The_Todd]

That's what rare, exciting European ties are for. Doing it every few weeks wouldn't be the same and wouldn't be realistic for 99% of our fans.

Some of our support can't afford to attend home games right now!!!

In our case very rare. When's the last time we made it far enough in a competition to warrant a trip to Amsterdam anyway?

[Ozyhibby]

where did say it did? Aren't I allowed an opinion? Like I said this debate will still be doing the rounds in 10 years. Its a million miles away from the agenda in England, whether you like it or not.

I agree that I don't see entry into England being on the cards, nor what most Scots fans want. An Atlantic league type set up is far more likely though and there are clubs working on it right now.


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[chippy]

I'll support Hibs in whatever league we end up in. But change is coming re cross border leagues. Colt sides in League 2 looks like a further move in that direction. I'd anticipate an expanded Premier league up here possibly Colt clubs in a reformed 3rd tier perhaps including Hibs Hertz Dons this preparing the framework for movement of 1st teams into Atlantic or UK league. The 2nd teams play in SPFL. All dependent on big TV money of course.

[jgl07]

I'll support Hibs in whatever league we end up in. But change is coming re cross border leagues. Colt sides in League 2 looks like a further move in that direction. I'd anticipate an expanded Premier league up here possibly Colt clubs in a reformed 3rd tier perhaps including Hibs Hertz Dons this preparing the framework for movement of 1st teams into Atlantic or UK league. The 2nd teams play in SPFL. All dependent on big TV money of course.
For change to happen it has to be in the interests of the clubs and leagues concerned.

A move to England for Celtic, Rangers, and possibly others would be in the interests of the teams concerned but would not be in the interests of the SFA or the SPFL. They would do their best to ensure that UEFA blocked any such move. It is doubtful if it is in the interests of the EPL, the EFL, or the FA. Rangers and Celtic would add TV audiences but carry too much baggage. It is certainly not in the interests of the teams likely to be displaced by such a move. I just don't see the likes of Sunderland, West Brom, Leicester, Bournemouth, etc voting to give up £100 million a year. Nor do I see the likes of Villa, Norwich, Newcastle, voting to deprive themselves of the chance of such income in the future.

The English game is very healthy and are in no need of any change despite what Sky and BT Sport might say. That assumes that UEFA will sanction teams moving associations. This cuts across everything that they have been doing since they were formed.

The Atlantic League is a different matter. There is zero chance of a multi-league pyramid system being created. This would not be in the interests of the Leagues concerned or the bulk of their member clubs. The leagues would lose their biggest clubs and direct access to UEFA competitions.

If it is envisaged that the teams concerned would leave their current Leagues, this might (or might not) favour the clubs concerned but would not be in the interests of the Leagues they were leaving. It would reduce them to the status of the League of Wales. Would Celtic supporters pack Parkhead for the visit of Norwegian and Danish teams week in week out? Either way UEFA would not override the objections of the national Keagues and Associations. Not a chance.

What could happen is mergers to create transnational Leagues if there was support, for example Holland and Belgium plus Spain and Portugal? If Catalonia split from Spain, it could provide the impetus for an Iberian League. The Former Yugoslav League could effectively be recreated. More than that I cannot see anything happening.

[Ozyhibby]

Big row brewing between Europe's haves (represented by ECA) & relative have nots (represented by EPFL) on UEFA's Champions League reforms

Tweeted by Matt Slater
Sports reporter with PA



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[Ozyhibby]

The EPFL Board of Directors is meeting today in Amsterdam to discuss the outcome of the reform of UEFA Club Competitions.

The European Leagues believe the way this process has been conducted by UEFA to be unacceptable for an organisation that claims to be the governing body of football in Europe. A major change in European football has been announced without the support and consensus of the organisers of domestic league football in Europe. This decision will have a detrimental impact on domestic competitions and will lead to an exponential growth in the financial and sporting gap between the biggest clubs in Europe and all the others.

As a result of the decision taken by UEFA, the EPFL believes that UEFA has breached the Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) between the two organisations.

In the event that the EPFL were to terminate the MoU as a result of such breach, this would give all European Leagues total freedom to schedule their matches as they see fit – including on the same days and at the same kick-off times as UEFA Club Competitions.

Finally, the EPFL calls on the new UEFA President, to be elected next week, to reconsider the reform relating to UEFA Club Competitions. The European Leagues stand ready to meet the new UEFA President to discuss these matters.

The EPFL will further clarify its position during a press conference that shall take place at 15:30hs in Amsterdam.

The EPFL Board of Directors’ meeting was attended by the following Leagues:

- Spanish La Liga
- German Bundesliga
- English Premier League
- French Professional Football League
- Russian Premier League
- Liga Portugal
- Dutch Eredivisie
- Swiss Football League
- Swedish Professional Football League
- Danish Professional Football League
- Scottish Professional Football Leagues
- Italian Lega Serie B


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[NAE NOOKIE]

The EPFL Board of Directors is meeting today in Amsterdam to discuss the outcome of the reform of UEFA Club Competitions.

The European Leagues believe the way this process has been conducted by UEFA to be unacceptable for an organisation that claims to be the governing body of football in Europe. A major change in European football has been announced without the support and consensus of the organisers of domestic league football in Europe. This decision will have a detrimental impact on domestic competitions and will lead to an exponential growth in the financial and sporting gap between the biggest clubs in Europe and all the others.

As a result of the decision taken by UEFA, the EPFL believes that UEFA has breached the Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) between the two organisations.

In the event that the EPFL were to terminate the MoU as a result of such breach, this would give all European Leagues total freedom to schedule their matches as they see fit – including on the same days and at the same kick-off times as UEFA Club Competitions.

Finally, the EPFL calls on the new UEFA President, to be elected next week, to reconsider the reform relating to UEFA Club Competitions. The European Leagues stand ready to meet the new UEFA President to discuss these matters.

The EPFL will further clarify its position during a press conference that shall take place at 15:30hs in Amsterdam.

The EPFL Board of Directors’ meeting was attended by the following Leagues:

- Spanish La Liga
- German Bundesliga
- English Premier League
- French Professional Football League
- Russian Premier League
- Liga Portugal
- Dutch Eredivisie
- Swiss Football League
- Swedish Professional Football League
- Danish Professional Football League
- Scottish Professional Football Leagues
- Italian Lega Serie B


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Good ..... even though the EPFL probably aren't the ideal answer to what's going on at least its something. For a decade now the tail has been wagging the dog in European football, TV calls the shots, the giant clubs love it and UEFA kisses both their ***** because of the money at stake and their fear of a breakaway league.

What UEFA have forgotten and the EPFL are at last reminding them of in a roundabout way is that for every Real Madrid or Man Utd there are a dozen other clubs who are being edged out ..... for every fan of Real Madrid or Man Utd there are a hundred who support the less 'glamorous' clubs and are getting utterly sick of watching European competitions being fixed to give clubs who were already the strongest an even better chance of winning.

Lets hope this turns into a war .... its long overdue in my opinion.

[Malthibby]

As long as Celtic & Sevco bxgger off I'll watch Hibs play in North Atlantic League against folk from Greenland & the Faroes. On balance though I'd rather stay in Scotland,
especially if they two bog off.
GG

[offshorehibby]

Following a meeting of its clubs on Thursday (22 September), the EFL confirmed that the inclusion of Premier League B Teams, clubs from non-English leagues or those outside the English football pyramid will not form part of any ongoing discussions for the ‘Whole Game Solution’.

http://www.efl.com/news/article/2016/premier-league-b-teams-ruled-out-following-first-phase-of-consultation-3322371.aspx

[jacomo]

http://www.efl.com/news/article/2016/premier-league-b-teams-ruled-out-following-first-phase-of-consultation-3322371.aspx

Bad luck ugly sisters.

[banarc7062]

I don't believe it, those English dinnae want the "big two" playin with them. Shame. :na na: GGTTH

[Ozyhibby]

http://www.efl.com/news/article/2016/premier-league-b-teams-ruled-out-following-first-phase-of-consultation-3322371.aspx

Always a non-starter. The future will be a version of the Atlantic league.


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[jgl07]

Always a non-starter. The future will be a version of the Atlantic league.


Dream on.

It's not going to happen.

[G B Young]

Always a non-starter. The future will be a version of the Atlantic league.


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Here's hoping. Change is long overdue. The game is so stale here it's badly in need of something to breathe new life into it.

[NAE NOOKIE]

http://www.efl.com/news/article/2016/premier-league-b-teams-ruled-out-following-first-phase-of-consultation-3322371.aspx

Good ..... Time all this carry on was put to bed and everybody got on with trying to make Scottish football better. I'm looking forward to the next meltdown if any of our clubs get punted out of the Irn Bru challenge cup by Irish or Welsh opposition, I can hear the Vultures circling now.

Watching Sportscene the other night I was bolstered by the fare on offer, there was some really good stuff, Motherwell v Hamilton was a cracker as far as I could make out and there was some great goals and goalkeeping on offer in just about all of the games, you don't need mega bucks superstars to put on an exciting game of football and that is a message the SPFL need to get over to people.

Watching Hibs at the moment is probably as atypical of the Scottish game as its possible to get. Outwith Celtic most of the clubs in the Premiership fancy their chances of getting a result against each other and that's been the case for a few years now, I highly doubt most games involve any of the backs to the wall efforts by teams we have to witness most weeks and as a result there's a good chance of seeing an end to end game.

The 'lets all go to England' stuff appears to be dead in the water now and as far as I'm concerned the so called 'Atlantic league' is a non starter, I just cant see how it would work from a fans point of view, outside of Scotland and Holland ( where clubs are within easy travelling distance ) most of the countries involved don't have a huge culture of away fans travelling long distances to games ... I remember Jose Mourinho making this comparison between England and Portugal as he marvelled at the amount of away fans turning up at Chelsea for cup games. Also football revolves around rivalries and I just cant see fans getting excited about a PSV v Celtic game once it became a regular fixture.

No, its time to concentrate on what's right in front of us now.

[Ozyhibby]

Good ..... Time all this carry on was put to bed and everybody got on with trying to make Scottish football better. I'm looking forward to the next meltdown if any of our clubs get punted out of the Irn Bru challenge cup by Irish or Welsh opposition, I can hear the Vultures circling now.

Watching Sportscene the other night I was bolstered by the fare on offer, there was some really good stuff, Motherwell v Hamilton was a cracker as far as I could make out and there was some great goals and goalkeeping on offer in just about all of the games, you don't need mega bucks superstars to put on an exciting game of football and that is a message the SPFL need to get over to people.

Watching Hibs at the moment is probably as atypical of the Scottish game as its possible to get. Outwith Celtic most of the clubs in the Premiership fancy their chances of getting a result against each other and that's been the case for a few years now, I highly doubt most games involve any of the backs to the wall efforts by teams we have to witness most weeks and as a result there's a good chance of seeing an end to end game.

The 'lets all go to England' stuff appears to be dead in the water now and as far as I'm concerned the so called 'Atlantic league' is a non starter, I just cant see how it would work from a fans point of view, outside of Scotland and Holland ( where clubs are within easy travelling distance ) most of the countries involved don't have a huge culture of away fans travelling long distances to games ... I remember Jose Mourinho making this comparison between England and Portugal as he marvelled at the amount of away fans turning up at Chelsea for cup games. Also football revolves around rivalries and I just cant see fans getting excited about a PSV v Celtic game once it became a regular fixture.

No, its time to concentrate on what's right in front of us now.

Marketed properly the fans would get very excited about PSV v Celtic. Especially if the funds were there for both clubs to buy better players.
You wouldn't look forward to Hibs playing Malmo in a league fixture? I think it would draw a bigger crowd than a game v Ross county.


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