Scotlands Game 9pm

[hibsbollah]

3rd episode and its getting a wee bit depressing to be honest, there's an awful lot of picking our game to pieces and not very much of what can be done to sort it. Any dummy can point to what has gone wrong, it takes vision and effort to make things better. For example, you invite Barry Hearn to address the great and good of the game ... great idea .... Then you ignore everything he said .... bad idea.

You get folk like Graham Souness bemoaning our limited group of players, but where is the legacy from the group of world beaters him and his peers were part of, they underachieved just as much as the players who followed them, but with far less of an excuse for it. where are the players who came into the national team from the Rangers academy set up when he was in charge, or for that matter when Walter Smith was in charge, how many of these football geniuses from what they obviously see as a golden age have gone on to inspire or find new stars for the Scotland team?

I don't know how many episodes are left to go, but is at least one of them going to show what is still good about our game, and there is good stuff. When two towns with a combined population of less than Dundee can attract nearly 40,000 to a cup final you cant say the interest isn't still there, when over 100,000 people leave the house to watch a team parade the Scottish cup you cant say the interest isn't still there.

Is there going to be an episode where these football and social experts are going to give us positive and workable ideas about what can be done to advance the cause of our game, from attracting back supporters, attracting new supporters and how clubs can improve the development of new talent and provide that talent and these supporters with modern and inspirational surroundings to play and watch in, in the form of new or refurbished stadiums.

If that isn't going to happen then what the hell is the point of a TV series like this ... if its just a case of a load of 'I was there' folk from football's past telling us how what we all know went wrong went wrong then I could have made the bloody programme. When do we get the folk with ideas and ambition, when do we replace 'we cant' with 'we want to and we can' ........ I'm sick of hearing from folk who say we can never do stuff, I want to hear from folk who say we can and I want to hear from folk with ideas of how we can.

Great post :greengrin

[Onion]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/scotland/37348386

[Iain G]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/scotland/37348386

Highs and Lows in one 2 minute clip. Love seeing Collins on the pitch and the genuine emotion as he talks about losing his Dad.

I didn't make it to the Scottish Cup Final so he delivered one of my best days supporting Hibs that day and will always thank him for that :agree::not worth

Shame it turned pear shaped not long afterwards...

[greenteam]

3rd episode and its getting a wee bit depressing to be honest, there's an awful lot of picking our game to pieces and not very much of what can be done to sort it. Any dummy can point to what has gone wrong, it takes vision and effort to make things better. For example, you invite Barry Hearn to address the great and good of the game ... great idea .... Then you ignore everything he said .... bad idea.

You get folk like Graham Souness bemoaning our limited group of players, but where is the legacy from the group of world beaters him and his peers were part of, they underachieved just as much as the players who followed them, but with far less of an excuse for it. where are the players who came into the national team from the Rangers academy set up when he was in charge, or for that matter when Walter Smith was in charge, how many of these football geniuses from what they obviously see as a golden age have gone on to inspire or find new stars for the Scotland team?

I don't know how many episodes are left to go, but is at least one of them going to show what is still good about our game, and there is good stuff. When two towns with a combined population of less than Dundee can attract nearly 40,000 to a cup final you cant say the interest isn't still there, when over 100,000 people leave the house to watch a team parade the Scottish cup you cant say the interest isn't still there.

Is there going to be an episode where these football and social experts are going to give us positive and workable ideas about what can be done to advance the cause of our game, from attracting back supporters, attracting new supporters and how clubs can improve the development of new talent and provide that talent and these supporters with modern and inspirational surroundings to play and watch in, in the form of new or refurbished stadiums.

If that isn't going to happen then what the hell is the point of a TV series like this ... if its just a case of a load of 'I was there' folk from football's past telling us how what we all know went wrong went wrong then I could have made the bloody programme. When do we get the folk with ideas and ambition, when do we replace 'we cant' with 'we want to and we can' ........ I'm sick of hearing from folk who say we can never do stuff, I want to hear from folk who say we can and I want to hear from folk with ideas of how we can.

I think the point is to depress people like you and me bud
. Solutions 0..rubbing in the obvious 10

[Kato]

The solutions are simple - lots of coaching lots of infrastructure. That costs money and requires people who have the gumption to push it through and while the former might be lacking the latter is non existent. That's why Scotland's troubles are moaned about and trawled over as no one wants to be the one who tells the truth.

[JimBHibees]

The solutions are simple - lots of coaching lots of infrastructure. That costs money and requires people who have the gumption to push it through and while the former might be lacking the latter is non existent. That's why Scotland's troubles are moaned about and trawled over as no one wants to be the one who tells the truth.

John Collins tried telling the truth when the new National stadium was being built. He said we should build about 15 indoor all weather pitches throughout the country instead and use existing stadiums for National games. He was ignored.

[Smartie]

John Collins tried telling the truth when the new National stadium was being built. He said we should build about 15 indoor all weather pitches throughout the country instead and use existing stadiums for National games. He was ignored.

John Collins appears to be an abrasive character but he has great ideas. There really should be some kind of role for him at the SPFL in terms of coaching and driving on youth development/ training/ development of facilities etc.

I'm looking forward to this fourth programme and it will be interesting to see what points they make about how to actually improve our game instead of just point out all that is wrong.

For a start, I think we need to look at why people like Paul Le Guen and John Collins don't last long in our game before being hounded out by player power (I know this doesn't fully represent the JC situation at Hibs but bear with me). We'll probably come round to their way of thinking in 10 years or so, about 30 years too late.

[superfurryhibby]

3rd episode and its getting a wee bit depressing to be honest, there's an awful lot of picking our game to pieces and not very much of what can be done to sort it. Any dummy can point to what has gone wrong, it takes vision and effort to make things better. For example, you invite Barry Hearn to address the great and good of the game ... great idea .... Then you ignore everything he said .... bad idea.

You get folk like Graham Souness bemoaning our limited group of players, but where is the legacy from the group of world beaters him and his peers were part of, they underachieved just as much as the players who followed them, but with far less of an excuse for it. where are the players who came into the national team from the Rangers academy set up when he was in charge, or for that matter when Walter Smith was in charge, how many of these football geniuses from what they obviously see as a golden age have gone on to inspire or find new stars for the Scotland team?

I don't know how many episodes are left to go, but is at least one of them going to show what is still good about our game, and there is good stuff. When two towns with a combined population of less than Dundee can attract nearly 40,000 to a cup final you cant say the interest isn't still there, when over 100,000 people leave the house to watch a team parade the Scottish cup you cant say the interest isn't still there.

Is there going to be an episode where these football and social experts are going to give us positive and workable ideas about what can be done to advance the cause of our game, from attracting back supporters, attracting new supporters and how clubs can improve the development of new talent and provide that talent and these supporters with modern and inspirational surroundings to play and watch in, in the form of new or refurbished stadiums.

If that isn't going to happen then what the hell is the point of a TV series like this ... if its just a case of a load of 'I was there' folk from football's past telling us how what we all know went wrong went wrong then I could have made the bloody programme. When do we get the folk with ideas and ambition, when do we replace 'we cant' with 'we want to and we can' ........ I'm sick of hearing from folk who say we can never do stuff, I want to hear from folk who say we can and I want to hear from folk with ideas of how we can.

Fantastic post NN. You find the words and get to the heart of the matter.The obsequious nature of the governing bodies and their collusion with those who undermine our game the most suffocates innovation.

I would guess that youth football is as popular here as in any other footballing nation. We do have a tremendous passion for the sport and remarkable backing from fans, despite a generation of appalling performance.

There are raw materials to work with, but it's the lack of leadership, vision and committment which hinder progress.

The governing bodies should be seeking ways in which to maximise the games potential and that means we need to start from the bottom up. Perhaps playing youth football in summer would be a start? Saturday mornings in the teeth of a howling gale on rain sodden turf isn't incentivising youngsters to stay involved. Youth academies don't appear to have added much, maybe this is another area to look at. The old model of s forms and clubs being involved with boys clubs appeared to produced plenty of talent in th past. Maybe realigning funding and refocusing the direction travel here would help?

[PeeJay]

3rd episode and its getting a wee bit depressing to be honest, there's an awful lot of picking our game to pieces and not very much of what can be done to sort it. Any dummy can point to what has gone wrong, it takes vision and effort to make things better. For example, you invite Barry Hearn to address the great and good of the game ... great idea .... Then you ignore everything he said .... bad idea.

You get folk like Graham Souness bemoaning our limited group of players, but where is the legacy from the group of world beaters him and his peers were part of, they underachieved just as much as the players who followed them, but with far less of an excuse for it. where are the players who came into the national team from the Rangers academy set up when he was in charge, or for that matter when Walter Smith was in charge, how many of these football geniuses from what they obviously see as a golden age have gone on to inspire or find new stars for the Scotland team?

I don't know how many episodes are left to go, but is at least one of them going to show what is still good about our game, and there is good stuff. When two towns with a combined population of less than Dundee can attract nearly 40,000 to a cup final you cant say the interest isn't still there, when over 100,000 people leave the house to watch a team parade the Scottish cup you cant say the interest isn't still there.

Is there going to be an episode where these football and social experts are going to give us positive and workable ideas about what can be done to advance the cause of our game, from attracting back supporters, attracting new supporters and how clubs can improve the development of new talent and provide that talent and these supporters with modern and inspirational surroundings to play and watch in, in the form of new or refurbished stadiums.

If that isn't going to happen then what the hell is the point of a TV series like this ... if its just a case of a load of 'I was there' folk from football's past telling us how what we all know went wrong went wrong then I could have made the bloody programme. When do we get the folk with ideas and ambition, when do we replace 'we cant' with 'we want to and we can' ........ I'm sick of hearing from folk who say we can never do stuff, I want to hear from folk who say we can and I want to hear from folk with ideas of how we can.

Not quite sure how a tv series is supposed to have the answers to the problems with Scottish football- it can certainly highlight them though.

If Scotland wants to know how a nation solves its loss of footballing stature and ability, look to Germany and what happened here after 2000. You need to invest money, build the proper infrastructure, set up worthwhile academies, hire lots of coaches, find the talented kids while young, change the thinking behind what being a football player is all about. Here's an old Guardian link that explains much of what happened over here and why Germany is where it is today ... if the Scottish football authorities and the clubs were actually interested then this should all be old news.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/may/23/germany-bust-boom-talent

[number9dream]

Final episode on Thursday and it would appear to touch on some of Nae Nookie's concerns...

John Collins clip:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/scotland/37348386

"...Scotland's Game looks at possible ways forward for Scottish football, new solutions to long-standing problems and questions which the national sport needs to face up to."

From the TV trailer, it looks like they will also take a look at women's football.

As for the 'point' of the programme, it's social history and the story, albeit a largely depressing one for football fans, has been told well.

[Kato]

As for the 'point' of the programme, it's social history and the story, albeit a largely depressing one for football fans, has been told well.

Agree but don't think it's been told well. They tore in about Gretna whilst the criminality and cheating at RFC and HoMFC were given a light going over. Completely ignored Tom Farmer's presence at ER.

[SHODAN]

"...Scotland's Game looks at possible ways forward for Scottish football, new solutions to long-standing problems and questions which the national sport needs to face up to."

Calling it now.

10 team top division, OF colt teams in Championship, 90% of prize money to top two-placed teams located in Glasgow to "attract second-rate players from abroad", quarterly Old Firm Cup and an advisory board comprised of Walter Smith, Barry Ferguson, Peter Lawell and Jonathan Watson impersonating Frank McAvennie.

[Scorrie]

Calling it now.

10 team top division, OF colt teams in Championship, 90% of prize money to top two-placed teams located in Glasgow to "attract second-rate players from abroad", quarterly Old Firm Cup and an advisory board comprised of Walter Smith, Barry Ferguson, Peter Lawell and Jonathan Watson impersonating Frank McAvennie.

Is that you Neil Doncaster?

[21.05.2016]

Can't agree I'm afraid, look at the reputation ALL English tourists gained thanks to the thuggish behaviour of their football fans in the 80s, or the wide spread coverage of racist Polish and Ukrainian crowds prior to them hosting the Euros. I've talked football with locals in other countries and it is not uncommon to hear 'Ah, Scotland, Celtic / Rangers, Catholic / Protestant'. We may be famous for lots of things here in Scotland, unfortunately thanks to the OF, sectarianism is one of them - and I am ashamed.

Well just look at the huns down in Manchester 2008 as well. I for one think that the OF are actually extemely embarrassing to the nation. Scotland as a nation wants to be seen as a tolerant, forward thinking and modern society yet these people constantly want to drag us back to the dark ages and relive conflicts that should be consigned to the past. Most celtic and rangers fans I bet don't even understand what they are singing about, they just know that it winds the other up and the fact that this sort of bigotry is now practically normalised means that the feeling of doing something wrong is lessened.

Its pathetic all this "oh but but they did this first" finger pointing and trying to blame each other. The latest rangers statement is so laughable that i genuinely thought it was a wind up to start with. This fake sense of moral outrage at sectarianism and other fans behaviour really has got to be the most ridiculously hypocritical thing i've ever come across. "disgusted and outraged at level of sectarian bigotry" - aye so are we ya ****ing morons yet doesn't stop yu peddling out your bile week in week out!

[jacomo]

Highs and Lows in one 2 minute clip. Love seeing Collins on the pitch and the genuine emotion as he talks about losing his Dad.

I didn't make it to the Scottish Cup Final so he delivered one of my best days supporting Hibs that day and will always thank him for that :agree::not worth

Shame it turned pear shaped not long afterwards...

I went to both, and I can tell you that LC07 win is still right up there alongside the SCF as a sacred footballing memory.

Very different game of course, but we played sensationally well, the snow, SoL, the fez hats... All very special.

(Oh and chasing the bus down Leith Walk in the dark, and forcing our way into ER past the polis...)

[Michael]

Calling it now.

10 team top division, OF colt teams in Championship, 90% of prize money to top two-placed teams located in Glasgow to "attract second-rate players from abroad", quarterly Old Firm Cup and an advisory board comprised of Walter Smith, Barry Ferguson, Peter Lawell and Jonathan Watson impersonating Frank McAvennie.
:faf: It'll be exactly that!

[mjhibby]

The solutions are simple - lots of coaching lots of infrastructure. That costs money and requires people who have the gumption to push it through and while the former might be lacking the latter is non existent. That's why Scotland's troubles are moaned about and trawled over as no one wants to be the one who tells the truth.

Im not sure it's going to need a massive amount of investment. A few indoor training centres so kids can train properly in the winter and the coaching set up geared to producing,skilful and technical players not guys who can run all day. If youngsters spend all the time chasing around the pitch then they haven't been coached correctly. Too many vested interests means will talk about it endlessly and nothing will change.

[Cropley10]

Im not sure it's going to need a massive amount of investment. A few indoor training centres so kids can train properly in the winter and the coaching set up geared to producing,skilful and technical players not guys who can run all day. If youngsters spend all the time chasing around the pitch then they haven't been coached correctly. Too many vested interests means will talk about it endlessly and nothing will change.

Sadly I agree - the game in Scotland is only interested in one Club, and that Club always defeating one other Club. It's worse than a banana republic.

Rangers have always been a permanent embarrassment and an occasional disgrace. Nothing has changed, nor will it. Well, until the print media finally goes down the sink hole.

[Gatecrasher]

I thought that show was an abomination last night, Budge and the Caley guy going on about less clubs and merging is the answer then suggesting Wi-Fi and paying for your crap food via an app would bring crowds back. They talk about needing to compare Scotland to countries of a similar size then go on about Germany, England and America. Talking about the fans need to have more say and not one fan appeared in the whole series. Not one word from the people who actually run our game, Constantly making out Scottish Football is on its death bed. making out to have an opinion and solutions about our game without actually saying anything!

A total waste of time, I enjoyed seeing some of the old footage but that was about it.

[hibbytam]

I thought that show was an abomination last night, Budge and the Caley guy going on about less clubs and merging is the answer then suggesting Wi-Fi and paying for your crap food via an app would bring crowds back. They talk about needing to compare Scotland to countries of a similar size then go on about Germany, England and America. Talking about the fans need to have more say and not one fan appeared in the whole series. Not one word from the people who actually run our game, Constantly making out Scottish Football is on its death bed. making out to have an opinion and solutions about our game without actually saying anything!

A total waste of time, I enjoyed seeing some of the old footage but that was about it.

I agree with that summery, especially for the latter half of the program.
Also they said something about crowds being down. I'm sure for most clubs that's not true (at least compared to recent history, not the 50s). Infact they went straight from Stuart Cosgrove saying 'by population, Scotland has the best supported game in Europe', to 'crowds are down'. Doesn't really connect...
Did think the merger thought was a disgrace. Basically the message was it's not for the bigger clubs, but it'll be ok for the diddies in angus or something.
And the wifi/hotdog idea just seemed slightly disjointed. Like it'd been noted down, and no-one quite knew how to fit it in.

For me the solution was in the first half of the program. Improve the level of coaching, particularly at youth level. Increase the number of coaches with UEFA badges, and try to encourage future footballers to act like a proper professional athlete. This should improve the overall quality of the game, which would encourage people to go to games.

[Stevie Reid]

Maybe it was affected by my low expectations, but I thought that the series was very good. I was concerned it was going to lose its way after the first two, but it kept the momentum going well I thought, and had a decent narrative and direction.

I found it fascinating to get the kind of insight that we did about the TV deals that we got from the likes of Roger Mitchell, and the perspective and context offered by the historian on the programme was also very welcome - though by and large, I thought all the talking heads worth listening to.

[lapsedhibee]

A total waste of time, I enjoyed seeing some of the old footage but that was about it.

Not for me. That was the first time I'd heard the Budge wumman more or less spell out that the fan ownership that the yams think they're getting isn't the fan ownership they're actually getting. She stopped just short of saying they're not getting fan ownership at all. Woot!

Traynor seemed more physically repulsive than ever.

[Gatecrasher]

Maybe it was affected by my low expectations, but I thought that the series was very good. I was concerned it was going to lose its way after the first two, but it kept the momentum going well I thought, and had a decent narrative and direction.

I found it fascinating to get the kind of insight that we did about the TV deals that we got from the likes of Roger Mitchell, and the perspective and context offered by the historian on the programme was also very welcome - though by and large, I thought all the talking heads worth listening to.

I agree with you about the first 2 episodes, the third one didn't interest me but I thought last nights one was a shocker.

[Stevie Reid]

Did think the merger thought was a disgrace. Basically the message was it's not for the bigger clubs, but it'll be ok for the diddies in angus or something.

That's interesting, because what I saw was the programme (which had previously illustrated how ill advised the Mercer merger/takeover was, and how the Dundee/Utd one could have had bad implications for the families of those involved) quite clearly demonstrate just how painful the ICT merger was for many, before showing how far they've come in the 22 years since.

When guys like Charlie Christie spoke about the Angus clubs, they were not disrespectful, and did say that any potential mergers would lose them die hard fans - but also did state that doing so might be the only thing that can see things change.

I take my hat off to the guys who support these teams week in week out, with little prospect of promotion or winning anything. The idea was just put forward in the context of the conversation that having 40 professional football teams in Scotland is too much. Which it is.

[Stevie Reid]

I agree with you about the first 2 episodes, the third one didn't interest me but I thought last nights one was a shocker.

First two were the best, for sure - but I enjoyed the other two as well.

[Blaster]

I agree with you about the first 2 episodes, the third one didn't interest me but I thought last nights one was a shocker.

I thought last night showed everyone agrees change needs to happen but some older heads in the game for a long time won't do it.

Hopefully some fresh ideas from dempster / budge will help

And keep ignoring malpas who keeps trying to discipline his way to success

[Gatecrasher]

I thought last night showed everyone agrees change needs to happen but some older heads in the game for a long time won't do it.

Hopefully some fresh ideas from dempster / budge will help

And keep ignoring malpas who keeps trying to discipline his way to success
:agree: I thought Malpas came across as a complete moron.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I thought that show was an abomination last night, Budge and the Caley guy going on about less clubs and merging is the answer then suggesting Wi-Fi and paying for your crap food via an app would bring crowds back. They talk about needing to compare Scotland to countries of a similar size then go on about Germany, England and America. Talking about the fans need to have more say and not one fan appeared in the whole series. Not one word from the people who actually run our game, Constantly making out Scottish Football is on its death bed. making out to have an opinion and solutions about our game without actually saying anything!

A total waste of time, I enjoyed seeing some of the old footage but that was about it.

Pretty good summing up, to be honest I found the whole bloody thing depressing .. a bit like getting a phone call from the hospital saying 'you had better get round here'

We can take lessons from any country so long as they can be applied to a country of our size. Even things like tailgating in America are worth having a look at, somebody else mentioned the area outside the East in another thread and if that area was covered like they do in some shopping districts it could well be used for stuff like that, minus the cars of course.

In all honesty there was a lot of talk about what we should be doing, which made the programme not a lot different from previous ones about Scottish football, but very little talk of how we are going to do it.

In fact the whole problem with Scottish football in the modern era could be summed up when Craig Brown revealed that as usual for their own selfish interests the Ugly Sisters vetoed an idea that might have created a decent model for all of our clubs. Until that changes we will be playing the game with a ball & chain round our leg.

[magpie1892]

In all honesty there was a lot of talk about what we should be doing, which made the programme not a lot different from previous ones about Scottish football, but very little talk of how we are going to do it.

Indeed. Surprised that Iceland, with 1/15th of Scotland's population and an immeasurably worse climate wasn't mentioned. In Iceland, unless you have a UEFA B or A licence, you're not allowed to take charge of players (of either sex) who've reached the ripe old age of 7 upwards.

Compare and contrast coaching standards of Iceland with Scotland where the likes of Barry Ferguson, who is so stupid he can barely speak English, is actually manager of a league club.

Then there are the seven full-sized and c.15 half-sized indoor 'football houses' dotted around the country. Scotland has, what, two?

[Smartie]

:agree: I thought Malpas came across as a complete moron.

I actually thought that Malpas made some decent points.

Unfortunately they were delivered in a typically unappealing Malpas manner so will probably fail to hit home anywhere.

[givescotlandfreedom]

I thought that show was an abomination last night, Budge and the Caley guy going on about less clubs and merging is the answer then suggesting Wi-Fi and paying for your crap food via an app would bring crowds back. They talk about needing to compare Scotland to countries of a similar size then go on about Germany, England and America. Talking about the fans need to have more say and not one fan appeared in the whole series. Not one word from the people who actually run our game, Constantly making out Scottish Football is on its death bed. making out to have an opinion and solutions about our game without actually saying anything!

A total waste of time, I enjoyed seeing some of the old footage but that was about it.

I have to agree with your points. Budge might have been right that Scotland needs fewer clubs. Let's start with hers, one of the most blood suckingly vile parasites to the game and society.
By the way I'm sure the gimps trialed being able to have your pie delivered to your seat by text which is presume died a death because you never hear about it now.
A lot of the stuff popular in US sports such as brass bands, cheerleaders, orchestrated chants etc are to me really cringe worthy. I don't think fans here want that and disagree with Budge that those things are worth looking at here. People here IMO don't want foam fingers and kiss cams, they want decent football at a decent price and to be treated like humans spending their hard earned on their passion. No more than that.

[givescotlandfreedom]

I actually thought that Malpas made some decent points.

Unfortunately they were delivered in a typically unappealing Malpas manner so will probably fail to hit home anywhere.

Maybe Malpas' history and persona got the better of me but Collins (who I don't think by any means was the man for us) made solid suggestions about kids learning from a certain age, levels of competitiveness in the youth game, the importance of training and living/eating properly to reach your peak and kids learning ball control skills so they know how to use it. I thought Malpas on the other hand was getting dewy eyed about blood and snotters and prattled on about today's footballers being namby pamby because they don't get an elbow to the face at 15 years old from a grown man like he did and if they can't handle that they need emptied.

[PompeyHibs]

I thought all four episodes went through the Scottish game in fine form.

We were good, we are now piss, we are passionate fans, we are skint, we stand no hope of going anywhere until we pair ourselves with a country our own size.

England fitbaw team are piss but the league they play in is great due to the influx of world stars.

The Scots fans have a great product to watch Aberdeen, Celts, Hibs in our league. Games are ding dong good games, but we as a nation we keep watching down the road and trying to compare Partick with Man City!!!.. Its fitbaw but nit as we know it... England national team are piss.

The guys are right... We suffer from hardly any kids playing the game due to other things.

Start with ... Everybody plays sports then get to Elite sport and maybe just maybe we have a chance.

Best bit is... These lads on the show have been there done it and got the t-shirt and still fans say ... He's talking baws haha

When will we learn 🍻

[jacomo]

I thought last night showed everyone agrees change needs to happen but some older heads in the game for a long time won't do it.

Hopefully some fresh ideas from dempster / budge will help

And keep ignoring malpas who keeps trying to discipline his way to success

Fresh ideas from Budge?

Not for me. It was very interesting to hear Leeann be so comfortable talking about fan ownership at Hibs, while Budge was evasive and shifty about it.

[jacomo]

:agree: I thought Malpas came across as a complete moron.

Yup.

And Levein.

[green day]

Fresh ideas from Budge?

Not for me. It was very interesting to hear Leeann be so comfortable talking about fan ownership at Hibs, while Budge was evasive and shifty about it.

Because we currently own a hell of a lot more of our club than the gimps do.

And that ain't changing any time soon, they have been seduced (again) by diverting the FoH cash to pay players.

[Waxy]

Budge will deliver fan ownership, a shiny new megastand and all we're waiting for now is the announcement that they'll win the champions league within x amount of years.

[Blaster]

Fresh ideas from Budge?

Not for me. It was very interesting to hear Leeann be so comfortable talking about fan ownership at Hibs, while Budge was evasive and shifty about it.

I wasn't on about the club ownership side. Each club will have their own solution which suits their club best. I was more on about making changes to our game on a wider level

[superfurryhibby]

Budge will deliver fan ownership, a shiny new megastand and all we're waiting for now is the announcement that they'll win the champions league within x amount of years.

One of the points The Budgemeistress made was relevant. She highlighted the number of pro teams and areas where merger of clubs and resources might promote greater interest in the game. Whilst not wishing to be disrespectful to some of the teams concerned, there was a point worthy of discussion.

Four pro teams from Angus, two from Falkirk and three more in close proximity in the central belt, four or five in Lanarkshire. No pro football in the Borders and so on.

Lots of tradition and a small measure of fading success for some, but essentially now living out an existence.

Haven't thought about it in any great depth, but is there a case for merger and maybe the emergence of some new sides which might create a greater interest in these areas?

[jacomo]

I wasn't on about the club ownership side. Each club will have their own solution which suits their club best. I was more on about making changes to our game on a wider level

Sure. But I don't think Budge has much to offer there either.

All she came up with was empty platitudes about not doing things the same way as before, and complaining there are too many clubs.

Am I missing something?

[superfurryhibby]

Sure. But I don't think Budge has much to offer there either.

All she came up with was empty platitudes about not doing things the same way as before, and complaining there are too many clubs.

Am I missing something?

Aye, see my point above:wink:

[Radium]

One of the points The Budgemeistress made was relevant. She highlighted the number of pro teams and areas where merger of clubs and resources might promote greater interest in the game. Whilst not wishing to be disrespectful to some of the teams concerned, there was a point worthy of discussion.

Four pro teams from Angus, two from Falkirk and three more in close proximity in the central belt, four or five in Lanarkshire. No pro football in the Borders and so on.

Lots of tradition and a small measure of fading success for some, but essentially now living out an existence.

Haven't thought about it in any great depth, but is there a case for merger and maybe the emergence of some new sides which might create a greater interest in these areas?

I suspect that the real issue that Budge has is the voting structure [sure I read this recently but cannot find the article] of the SPFL, where some votes require everyone to agree - rather than the board having the remit to run the leagues.

The number of teams in the league is a bit of a red herring, as the majority are part-time and focussed on their community - not sure that franchising areas would get much buy-in and suspect that the clubs would rather keep their own identity.

The creation of ICT was driven by a desire to get into the league and the suggestion that they needed to merge for that to happen - not sure that there would have been much appetite for the merger if the current pyramid structure [and route to league entry] was available.

[jacomo]

One of the points The Budgemeistress made was relevant. She highlighted the number of pro teams and areas where merger of clubs and resources might promote greater interest in the game. Whilst not wishing to be disrespectful to some of the teams concerned, there was a point worthy of discussion.

Four pro teams from Angus, two from Falkirk and three more in close proximity in the central belt, four or five in Lanarkshire. No pro football in the Borders and so on.

Lots of tradition and a small measure of fading success for some, but essentially now living out an existence.

Haven't thought about it in any great depth, but is there a case for merger and maybe the emergence of some new sides which might create a greater interest in these areas?

That is up to those clubs to decide. Obviously it's a complex issue - ICT have been successful but some fans felt the merger was an act of betrayal.

Its not up to Budge to say there are 'too many clubs'. Her role, such as it is, is to help create a sustainable league structure that maximises interest in the game.

If mergers come out if that, then fine. But I can't abide her 'I know what's best for you' attitude. I wouldn't presume to tell, say, Montrose whether or not they should consider merging with another club - that would be up to them.

EDIT: Scottish rugby imposed new clubs to create the Pro 12, running roughshod over the traditional clubs from the Borders. And it hasn't really worked.

Clubs are not franchises, but part of their communities. You interfere in this at your peril.

[superfurryhibby]

That is up to those clubs to decide. Obviously it's a complex issue - ICT have been successful but some fans felt the merger was an act of betrayal.

Its not up to Budge to say there are 'too many clubs'. Her role, such as it is, is to help create a sustainable league structure that maximises interest in the game.

If mergers come out if that, then fine. But I can't abide her 'I know what's best for you' attitude. I wouldn't presume to tell, say, Montrose whether or not they should consider merging with another club - that would be up to them.

EDIT: Scottish rugby imposed new clubs to create the Pro 12, running roughshod over the traditional clubs from the Borders. And it hasn't really worked.

Clubs are not franchises, but part of their communities. You interfere in this at your peril.


Some good points. I would say that she has as much right to an opinion and her observation is reasonable. Takng alonger term view, I would say there is more mileage in merger and progressing to a more ambitious place in the game. Part of the issue is that these part time clubs still have some fonsiderable influence on how the game operates.

As a talking point it is worth of discussion. Our game is moribund, I accept that there is a community role for th likes of Montrose etc, but to be fair the interest is pretty limited. We need radical changes and
Given the demographics etc, the number if league clubs is ridiculous.

[Waxy]

I can actually see the Lowland and Highland leagues being split into two divisions each in the near future. Clubs aren't going to just shut themselves down because people in control at the top think there's too many clubs.
If Hibs and Hearts merged, could we challenge the old firm? Maybe occasionally but Edinburghs football scene would never be the same again and we'd lose a load of football fans in the city. The same goes for any town. Leave them alone.