Champions league

[Halifaxhibby]

As much as i cant stand smeltic, pot 4??? Really?? At least they won a league!!, might as well call it plentycashcup??

[MWHIBBIES]

Celtic are rubbish, they are only in pot 4 because there isn't a pot 5.

[Halifaxhibby]

Celtic are rubbish, they are only in pot 4 because there isn't a pot 5.

Why call it champions league then???

[Halifaxhibby]

A team that never wins anything in one season enters this tournament??

[Highland_Hibee]

I agree that all winners in the major leagues across Europe should get a fair crack at the competition. We all know that UEFA couldn't give a ****** about that though. It is all about getting the biggest money spinners into the competition now.

[DH1875]

Only gonna get worse. Starting in 2018 England, Spain, Germany & Italy are gonna be guaranteed at least 4 places in the group stages.

[lyonhibs]

I agree that all winners in the major leagues across Europe should get a fair crack at the competition. We all know that UEFA couldn't give a ****** about that though. It is all about getting the biggest money spinners into the competition now.

I regret to inform you that you're having a laugh if you think the SPL in its current guise should be considered a "major" league in a Europe-wide context.

[Hibs Class]

I regret to inform you that you're having a laugh if you think the SPL in its current guise should be considered a "major" league in a Europe-wide context.

Would it be better to say that the winners of UEFA's member leagues should get a fairer crack at the competition than the team that finished behind the runner up to the also ran in the self proclaimed major leagues?

[Callyballybe]

Shame it couldn't have been next year that they qualified. Just read there that every team in the SPFL will be getting £250,000 due to Celtic's participation in the competition this year.

But yes, I do see the 'guaranteeing' of certain clubs from the big 3/4 footballing countries in Europe as the beginning of the end of european football in its current guise. The bigger clubs will soon use this as a springboard for getting their own competition or league. In some ways, good riddance!

[PeeKay]

As always, it's all about money. UEFA are looking at ways to ensure the CL remains the premier competition in Europe and it's a sobering thought that the club that comes bottom of the EPL this season will earn more than Real Madrid earned last season from winning the CL. They will change the format to increase income from Far Eastern sponsors and in the process kill the interest of European punters.

[Finn2015]

As always, it's all about money. UEFA are looking at ways to ensure the CL remains the premier competition in Europe and it's a sobering thought that the club that comes bottom of the EPL this season will earn more than Real Madrid earned last season from winning the CL. They will change the format to increase income from Far Eastern sponsors and in the process kill the interest of European punters.

Indeed it's becoming ludicrous and killing competition

[CorrieHibs]

I stopped watching it a few years ago. Find pretty boring and always the same teams playing each other.

Euro 2016 was a pretty poor standard but at least there was some excitement from the smaller nations.

[Scorrie]

Would it be better to say that the winners of UEFA's member leagues should get a fairer crack at the competition than the team that finished behind the runner up to the also ran in the self proclaimed major leagues?

Absolutely

[Spike Mandela]

Haven't watched a Champions league match in at least two years and my interest hasn't been rekindled by Celtic qualifying.

In the unlikely event Hibs ever qualified I would watch it but in reality this self serving, snouts in the trough frenzy holds absolutely no appeal for me whatsoever.

Sporting integrity and the 'Champions' league parted company a long, long time ago.

[Pretty Boy]

The Champions League :yawn:

The old European Cup, bring back the Cup Winners Cup and make the UEFA Cup a proper competition again and I might be interested. That will never happen though as it risks the 'big teams' meeting early and one of them losing out on a chance to milk the cash cow. The whole reason the current format was brought in.

The Champions League reminds me of The Inbetweeners episode when Will is ranting about the charity fashion show just being an excuse for the self elected popular kids to congratulate each other on how popular and beautiful they are.

I'll stick to Hibs thanks.

[Winston Ingram]

Why call it champions league then???

This is quite a tiresome argument.

It's a brand name. The aim of the tournament is to find the best side in Europe and the current format allows the best teams to compete in it and provides a credible measure worthy of the title best team in Europe.

We could have an actual Champions Cup but what's the point in that? We all know that the champions of Scotland, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, San Marino,Belgium, Slovakia, Bulgaria, Gibraltar, Estonia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, Ireland etc would get ripped a new one by the likes of Dortmund, Atletico Madrid, Manchester City etc.

[lyonhibs]

Would it be better to say that the winners of UEFA's member leagues should get a fairer crack at the competition than the team that finished behind the runner up to the also ran in the self proclaimed major leagues?

In principle yes, but I refer you to the post above mine for a realistic appraisal of why that wouldn't, in practice, really be worthwhile.

[Craig_HFC]

This is quite a tiresome argument.

It's a brand name. The aim of the tournament is to find the best side in Europe and the current format allows the best teams to compete in it and provides a credible measure worthy of the title best team in Europe.

We could have an actual Champions Cup but what's the point in that? We all know that the champions of Scotland, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, San Marino,Belgium, Slovakia, Bulgaria, Gibraltar, Estonia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, Ireland etc would get ripped a new one by the likes of Dortmund, Atletico Madrid, Manchester City etc.

No they wouldn't... Dortmund, Athletico Madrid & Man City wouldn't be in that competition.

:wink:

[Winston Ingram]

Celtic are rubbish, they are only in pot 4 because there isn't a pot 5.

This.

They've laboured through their qualifiers against the might of the Champions of Gibralter, Azerbaijan and Israel.

Wait till they play someone remotely useful. They're going to get absolutely battered.

[Winston Ingram]

No they wouldn't... Dortmund, Athletico Madrid & Man City wouldn't be in that competition.

:wink:

Exactly my point:agree:

[Since90+2]

I actually enjoy the Champions League matches as the quality on show is miles away from what we see in Scotland.

You often hear people saying it should be for the champions of the member nations only but why would that be any more interesting? Do people seriously think it would be more entertaning to watch Barcelona v Austrian/Slovenian Champions or Bayern v Norwegian/Irish Champions than the current setup? The novelty would wear off pretty quickly when the ties were effectively over after 30 minutes.

Give me Real v Man City or Juventus v Barcelona over that any day of the week.

[Highland_Hibee]

I regret to inform you that you're having a laugh if you think the SPL in its current guise should be considered a "major" league in a Europe-wide context.

Yep and it's this attitude that has slowly seen us slip to where we are. Surrender to the superiority of the leagues where the money is being thrown at. Why should we matter?


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[Winston Ingram]

Yep and it's this attitude that has slowly seen us slip to where we are. Surrender to the superiority of the leagues where the money is being thrown at. Why should we matter?

I don't really think it's an attitude that's seen us get in this state.

The population size, the money generated by our game and the general poor standard of player development in comparison to other countries are the main reasons.

[norhfc]

I,ve boycotted CL for the last few years, they are supposed to be promoting football in Europe. They stopped HibsTV showing a game last season on a Tueday night
because PSG v Chelsea was on. I,m finished with it, its all about the moneymen, corruption and TV deals around the world. PL is next btw.

[Salt N Sauzee]

I actually enjoy the Champions League matches as the quality on show is miles away from what we see in Scotland.

You often hear people saying it should be for the champions of the member nations only but why would that be any more interesting? Do people seriously think it would be more entertaning to watch Barcelona v Austrian/Slovenian Champions or Bayern v Norwegian/Irish Champions than the current setup? The novelty would wear off pretty quickly when the ties were effectively over after 30 minutes.

Give me Real v Man City or Juventus v Barcelona over that any day of the week.


And the novelty of the existing system hasn't worn of? There's only so many Chelsea V PSG ties you can watch, it's always the same teams drawing each other year in year out. It's become quite boring. It's all set up so the so called big clubs just get richer and richer.

At least if it actually was a "Champions" League it would level out the playing field to a certain extent with teams from other member nations getting their hands on the big cash it brings.

[GreenCastle]

It's odd it's called the Champions League when large percentage of teams haven't been champions.

It's odd that in the draw they keep seperate teams apart - last year due to politics.

Every year they keep teams from same league apart till later rounds.

The draw should be a complete free for all from the start - or at least seed it in a way that you can still play a team from own country.

It's all set up for the best spectacle and what makes most money.

I like watching the best players in Europe but think the system could be improved.

[Pretty Boy]

I actually enjoy the Champions League matches as the quality on show is miles away from what we see in Scotland.

You often hear people saying it should be for the champions of the member nations only but why would that be any more interesting? Do people seriously think it would be more entertaning to watch Barcelona v Austrian/Slovenian Champions or Bayern v Norwegian/Irish Champions than the current setup? The novelty would wear off pretty quickly when the ties were effectively over after 30 minutes.

Give me Real v Man City or Juventus v Barcelona over that any day of the week.

Or you could go back to the days of the 70s and 80s when it wasn't unusual to see a smaller team with a decent draw and the odd big result challenge for the title.

Give me an Aston Villa, Nottingham Forest, Feyenoord, Hamburg, Steaua Bucharest, Porto, Red Star Belgrade, Sampdoria, Malmo, Brugge or St Etienne having a bit of a run that captures the imagination over another 'el clasico' any day.

[Since90+2]

And the novelty of the existing system hasn't worn of? There's only so many Chelsea V PSG ties you can watch, it's always the same teams drawing each other year in year out. It's become quite boring. It's all set up so the so called big clubs just get richer and richer.

At least if it actually was a "Champions" League it would level out the playing field to a certain extent with teams from other member nations getting their hands on the big cash it brings.

If it was champions only how many people in the UK would want to watch it? You would have games like Finnish Champions v Bulgarian Champions and Estonian Champions v Latvian Champions. Nobody would watch it.

The Champions League is not perfect but it's better than the suggestions to revert back to the old days of the European Cup.

For instance Tottenham are not national champions but they are in it and could draw Real Madrid who are also not league winners. Simarily Atletico Madrid are not league winners but they could potentially play Leicester. I know I'd rather watch those type of games than the alternative some are putting forward.

[Highland_Hibee]

I don't really think it's an attitude that's seen us get in this state.

The population size, the money generated by our game and the general poor standard of player development in comparison to other countries are the main reasons.

It's money or lack of that has seen us into this state. It's attitude that has chosen to accept it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[green&left]

I regret to inform you that you're having a laugh if you think the SPL in its current guise should be considered a "major" league in a Europe-wide context.

Scotland's sole Champions League representative has won the European cup/CL more times than England's 4 representatives combined...

[KWJ]

This is quite a tiresome argument.

It's a brand name. The aim of the tournament is to find the best side in Europe and the current format allows the best teams to compete in it and provides a credible measure worthy of the title best team in Europe.

We could have an actual Champions Cup but what's the point in that? We all know that the champions of Scotland, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, San Marino,Belgium, Slovakia, Bulgaria, Gibraltar, Estonia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, Ireland etc would get ripped a new one by the likes of Dortmund, Atletico Madrid, Manchester City etc.

It's no coincidence that the Italian, German, Spanish and English teams have gone streets clear since this change was made as other countries teams can't compete. Think they started getting 4 teams in the early 2000s.

[NAE NOOKIE]

A sickening greedfest which flies in the face of everything cup football brings to the game .... and seeding is its real curse.

Seeding works in games like tennis because even the top seeds cant go on forever, short of Andy Murray for example cloning himself eventually a younger player with talent will edge him out and become the new top seed. It doesn't and cant work that way in football because the 'big' clubs are always going to be the big clubs and will always be seeded.

Clubs outwith the big 4 countries are never going to be able to match the crowds and finances of the biggest clubs in these countries .... their only hope was always that a lucky draw in one of the cups would take them to at least the semis before they had to face a club who dwarfed them in financial and playing staff terms, at which point a plucky backs to the wall performance might get you into a final.

Not any more ..... UEFA have ensured that the final stages of the Chumpions league and Europa league will always be populated by clubs from the big 4 countries. in fact its so vicious that even the Italians ( where with the exception of Juventus money is short ) are beginning to flag.

What UEFA and the greedy b----rds in England, Spain, Germany, France and Italy are doing in effect is telling anybody who loves the beautiful game in the rest of Europe that they don't matter, that even great clubs like Celtic, Ajax, Feyenoord, Benfica, Sporting, Parathinaikos and Red Star Belgrade are now just makeweights at best, afterthoughts at worst.

Never mind UEFA's integrity being in question regarding their competitions .... as far as I'm concerned they long ago abandoned any concept of existing for the good of the whole of European football and if they think that giving the also rans, who they ensure will stay also rans, crumbs from the masters table in the form of payouts to leagues who get a team into the group stages they are sadly mistaken.

If I had anything to do with it the 90% of clubs in UEFA's membership who are being sidelined by this rush to pander to the rich would get together and start taking action that will force UEFA to completely review this greed fuelled policy that will eventually grind European club football into the dust.

[lyonhibs]

Scotland's sole Champions League representative has won the European cup/CL more times than England's 4 representatives combined...

In 1967. What relevance does that have to the seeding/pot of Celtc in 2016?

[Thecat23]

Ah the good old champions league, where you don't have to be a champion to be in it. Where teams are seeded to make sure they don't have early slip ups!

Possibly the most boring competition in football. I'd rather watch lower league football than this *****.

[Scorrie]

Ah the good old champions league, where you don't have to be a champion to be in it. Where teams are seeded to make sure they don't have early slip ups!

Possibly the most boring competition in football. I'd rather watch lower league football than this *****.

Same for me.

[MWHIBBIES]

Ah the good old champions league, where you don't have to be a champion to be in it. Where teams are seeded to make sure they don't have early slip ups!

Possibly the most boring competition in football. I'd rather watch lower league football than this *****.Do you actually think the Champions league would be better with purely Champions from around Europe?

It would be Barcelona/English Champs/PSG/Juventus/Bayern hammering teams with a 20th of their budget.

[Since90+2]

Forgetting the politics and money surely people enjoy watching the greatest players in the world compete against each other?

We all love football and the Champions League is the place where the world's best are on show. You can like grass roots football (I have seen Spartans a couple of times this year) and also appreciate truly world class players. Its not either or.

[Winston Ingram]

It's no coincidence that the Italian, German, Spanish and English teams have gone streets clear since this change was made as other countries teams can't compete. Think they started getting 4 teams in the early 2000s.

It's domestic TV money that's responsible more than the CL. The money generated domestically in the big leagues is more than what can be generated by the CL unless you actually win it.

The bigger leagues were always going to streak away.

[Winston Ingram]

It's money or lack of that has seen us into this state. It's attitude that has chosen to accept it.




So what would not accepting it look like?

[patlowe]

A sickening greedfest which flies in the face of everything cup football brings to the game .... and seeding is its real curse.

Seeding works in games like tennis because even the top seeds cant go on forever, short of Andy Murray for example cloning himself eventually a younger player with talent will edge him out and become the new top seed. It doesn't and cant work that way in football because the 'big' clubs are always going to be the big clubs and will always be seeded.

Clubs outwith the big 4 countries are never going to be able to match the crowds and finances of the biggest clubs in these countries .... their only hope was always that a lucky draw in one of the cups would take them to at least the semis before they had to face a club who dwarfed them in financial and playing staff terms, at which point a plucky backs to the wall performance might get you into a final.

Not any more ..... UEFA have ensured that the final stages of the Chumpions league and Europa league will always be populated by clubs from the big 4 countries. in fact its so vicious that even the Italians ( where with the exception of Juventus money is short ) are beginning to flag.

What UEFA and the greedy b----rds in England, Spain, Germany, France and Italy are doing in effect is telling anybody who loves the beautiful game in the rest of Europe that they don't matter, that even great clubs like Celtic, Ajax, Feyenoord, Benfica, Sporting, Parathinaikos and Red Star Belgrade are now just makeweights at best, afterthoughts at worst.

Never mind UEFA's integrity being in question regarding their competitions .... as far as I'm concerned they long ago abandoned any concept of existing for the good of the whole of European football and if they think that giving the also rans, who they ensure will stay also rans, crumbs from the masters table in the form of payouts to leagues who get a team into the group stages they are sadly mistaken.

If I had anything to do with it the 90% of clubs in UEFA's membership who are being sidelined by this rush to pander to the rich would get together and start taking action that will force UEFA to completely review this greed fuelled policy that will eventually grind European club football into the dust.

Agree with you for the most part but to be fair UEFA under Platini did try some things to ensure champions of the smaller nations have a better chance of qualifying. The problem is that the bigger clubs have too much power and UEFA doesn't have the balls to say no for fear that the clubs will leave to form their own super-league. My concern is that unless, as you say, the rest of the clubs come together and say NO then the bigger clubs will keep pushing their agenda until...who knows. IMO we'll soon see specific clubs (Man Utd, Real etc), rather than just countries, guaranteed places in future. The 'champions route' will probably go too.

[lord bunberry]

Ah the good old champions league, where you don't have to be a champion to be in it. Where teams are seeded to make sure they don't have early slip ups!

Possibly the most boring competition in football. I'd rather watch lower league football than this *****.
I never watch the champions league anymore. The group stages are full of teams playing under strength teams after 2 or 3 games, then we are treated to the same teams playing each other in the latter stages. They should just have a European league, that is made up of teams who are invited to compete based on how much money they can generate for the sponsors. Then we could drop the pretence that the champions league is anything other than a money making venture for the elite clubs in Europe.
For the record I wouldn't watch a European league either.

[Thecat23]

Do you actually think the Champions league would be better with purely Champions from around Europe?

It would be Barcelona/English Champs/PSG/Juventus/Bayern hammering teams with a 20th of their budget.

Why call it Champions league then? It's not just got champions in it has it? Maybe call it... The bore league? The rich v rich league? The fixed league? The name itself is a lie it's not just champions!

[Thecat23]

I never watch the champions league anymore. The group stages are full of teams playing under strength teams after 2 or 3 games, then we are treated to the same teams playing each other in the latter stages. They should just have a European league, that is made up of teams who are invited to compete based on how much money they can generate for the sponsors. Then we could drop the pretence that the champions league is anything other than a money making venture for the elite clubs in Europe.
For the record I wouldn't watch a European league either.

Bang on the money!!

[Winston Ingram]

Why call it Champions league then? It's not just got champions in it has it? Maybe call it... The bore league? The rich v rich league? The fixed league? The name itself is a lie it's not just champions!

Would it make a difference if they called it something like the 'Elite League' ?

[Thecat23]

Would it make a difference if they called it something like the 'Elite League' ?

No.

[patlowe]

Not sure I agree with the logic that, because people watching on the sofa want to see the best players, a tournament should be effectively fixed to ensure that happens. But hey, this is a ship that sailed an awful long time ago. I personally find seeing the same teams playing each other every year a complete turn off but appreciate that some people lap it up.

[MWHIBBIES]

Why call it Champions league then? It's not just got champions in it has it? Maybe call it... The bore league? The rich v rich league? The fixed league? The name itself is a lie it's not just champions!Does the name even remotely matter? It is called the English football league but has Swansea and Cardiff in it, no one cares about that.

[Alex Trager]

A sickening greedfest which flies in the face of everything cup football brings to the game .... and seeding is its real curse.

Seeding works in games like tennis because even the top seeds cant go on forever, short of Andy Murray for example cloning himself eventually a younger player with talent will edge him out and become the new top seed. It doesn't and cant work that way in football because the 'big' clubs are always going to be the big clubs and will always be seeded.

Clubs outwith the big 4 countries are never going to be able to match the crowds and finances of the biggest clubs in these countries .... their only hope was always that a lucky draw in one of the cups would take them to at least the semis before they had to face a club who dwarfed them in financial and playing staff terms, at which point a plucky backs to the wall performance might get you into a final.

Not any more ..... UEFA have ensured that the final stages of the Chumpions league and Europa league will always be populated by clubs from the big 4 countries. in fact its so vicious that even the Italians ( where with the exception of Juventus money is short ) are beginning to flag.

What UEFA and the greedy b----rds in England, Spain, Germany, France and Italy are doing in effect is telling anybody who loves the beautiful game in the rest of Europe that they don't matter, that even great clubs like Celtic, Ajax, Feyenoord, Benfica, Sporting, Parathinaikos and Red Star Belgrade are now just makeweights at best, afterthoughts at worst.

Never mind UEFA's integrity being in question regarding their competitions .... as far as I'm concerned they long ago abandoned any concept of existing for the good of the whole of European football and if they think that giving the also rans, who they ensure will stay also rans, crumbs from the masters table in the form of payouts to leagues who get a team into the group stages they are sadly mistaken.

If I had anything to do with it the 90% of clubs in UEFA's membership who are being sidelined by this rush to pander to the rich would get together and start taking action that will force UEFA to completely review this greed fuelled policy that will eventually grind European club football into the dust.

Waw.

What a post.

[ScottB]

It's interesting, there seems to be a general objection to the 'rich' clubs dominating in Europe, or the Old Firm in Scotland, yet there was something of a backlash when Falkirk where complaining about the disparity between us and them...

It's all relative, and at every level, football favours the haves over the have nots. I don't have much of an objection to Real Madrid dominating in Europe, there's no system that would prevent the big clubs from doing so. Some of the suggestions that would result in lots of 'little' clubs competing would serve to reduce the amount of money a club gets for competing, and probably encourage the big sides to abandon the pretense and establish their own closed shop.

[Dashing Bob S]

In 1967. What relevance does that have to the seeding/pot of Celtc in 2016?

Would like to see them go back to '56 and give us a place, even though we didn't win the League. And seed us.

[Stevie Reid]

A sickening greedfest which flies in the face of everything cup football brings to the game .... and seeding is its real curse.

Seeding works in games like tennis because even the top seeds cant go on forever, short of Andy Murray for example cloning himself eventually a younger player with talent will edge him out and become the new top seed. It doesn't and cant work that way in football because the 'big' clubs are always going to be the big clubs and will always be seeded.

Clubs outwith the big 4 countries are never going to be able to match the crowds and finances of the biggest clubs in these countries .... their only hope was always that a lucky draw in one of the cups would take them to at least the semis before they had to face a club who dwarfed them in financial and playing staff terms, at which point a plucky backs to the wall performance might get you into a final.

Not any more ..... UEFA have ensured that the final stages of the Chumpions league and Europa league will always be populated by clubs from the big 4 countries. in fact its so vicious that even the Italians ( where with the exception of Juventus money is short ) are beginning to flag.

What UEFA and the greedy b----rds in England, Spain, Germany, France and Italy are doing in effect is telling anybody who loves the beautiful game in the rest of Europe that they don't matter, that even great clubs like Celtic, Ajax, Feyenoord, Benfica, Sporting, Parathinaikos and Red Star Belgrade are now just makeweights at best, afterthoughts at worst.

Never mind UEFA's integrity being in question regarding their competitions .... as far as I'm concerned they long ago abandoned any concept of existing for the good of the whole of European football and if they think that giving the also rans, who they ensure will stay also rans, crumbs from the masters table in the form of payouts to leagues who get a team into the group stages they are sadly mistaken.

If I had anything to do with it the 90% of clubs in UEFA's membership who are being sidelined by this rush to pander to the rich would get together and start taking action that will force UEFA to completely review this greed fuelled policy that will eventually grind European club football into the dust.

Good post. The discussions that went on last year to try and ensure that past winners were guaranteed qualification regardless of whether they would have been in it on merit, were worrying also. Removing genuine competition from football will be the death of it. Everyone loved Leicester winning the EPL last season because it was so unlikely - no chance of such things happening in the CL.

[KeithTheHibby]

The CL has to be the most boring knock-out competition bar none. It only starts getting interesting when you get to the QF stage when the seeding is out the window.
It is all about the rich getting richer and the fact that it is no longer on terrestrial television confirms that.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Agree with you for the most part but to be fair UEFA under Platini did try some things to ensure champions of the smaller nations have a better chance of qualifying. The problem is that the bigger clubs have too much power and UEFA doesn't have the balls to say no for fear that the clubs will leave to form their own super-league. My concern is that unless, as you say, the rest of the clubs come together and say NO then the bigger clubs will keep pushing their agenda until...who knows. IMO we'll soon see specific clubs (Man Utd, Real etc), rather than just countries, guaranteed places in future. The 'champions route' will probably go too.

Indeed ..... My point is that purely in terms of the number of people who watch football in Europe the tail wags the dog .... If you put together the number of fans who go to watch clubs with utterly no chance of watching their team do well in Europe their numbers dwarf those of the so called elite and I include in that folk who support clubs like Werder Bremen, Fiorentina, St Etienne, Crystal Palace and Villarreal, who are all big clubs in a wider European context, but in reality have as much chance of winning the Champions league as the likes of Celtic or Ajax do, because the whole thing is not just set up to protect the big 4 or 5 countries, but the biggest wealthiest clubs in those countries.

The set up controlled by UEFA is in place to pander to a few clubs who in reality are supported by a tiny fraction of Europe's football going public and that is entirely unacceptable ... that will be borne out in the years to come as the viewing figures for UEFA competitions become less and less as will the attendance figures as not only the wider majority of football fans, but even the fans of the 'elite' clubs get bored of watching the same handful of clubs competing at the arse end of UEFA's tournaments.

As for a breakaway European league ......... Football is and always has been based on a foundation of traditional and local rivalry. Eventually when the novelty has worn off what will be left?. There will be no away fans for the home crowd to bounce off of which will dilute the experience and spectacle of the games. Eventually just as in the current format the likes of Real Madrid, Barcelona, Man Utd, PSG, Bayern Munich and Juventus will dominate and fans of the likes of Ajax, Feyenoord, Benfica, Sporting, Celtic, Rangers? Basel etc who will be expected ( and expecting ) to participate in this league will drift away as they get bored of watching their teams steamrollered by the giants. They will yearn for the days when they were the big fish in a small pond as they start going through the reality of what 90% of Europe's fans have to suffer every season.

When that day comes the TV folk who at the end of the day are the root of this problem will look at the drop in viewing figures, look at the games they are covering being played in gigantic half empty stadiums where you can hear the players shouting at each other, and it will go like this:

Hello, is that the chairman of the European super league?
Yes
Aye listen mate, you know the 10 billion TV deal
Yes
Sorry mate, but what we are offering next year is 1 billion
You are joking
Nah, sorry .... we have decided to concentrate our coverage on the Scottish premier league because since the OF have left it the stadiums are full and its had 4 different winners in the last 5 years.

[3pm]

Should have brought back the Cup Winners Cup for this year.

[jgl07]

It's money or lack of that has seen us into this state. It's attitude that has chosen to accept it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Most of the ills of Scottish Football are self-inflicted. The OF have been aloud to ride roughshod to the detriment of competition and the standards of the league.

The English Premiership distributes funds relatively equally and this helps to promote competition. Spain adopt the 'give most of it to Real and Barca' approach. This makes the League skewed and most matches all to predictable. Even though the top three teams can usually beat any English team, the cash generated from TV is low, despite virtually every match being screened.

The club finishing bottom in the English Premiership get far more TV cash than Real or Barca.

What the Premiership is done is to market the game effectively. The clowns at the SPFL and SFA are unlikely to do that.

[Since90+2]

I could be wrong but I think in Spain the individual clubs negotiate the TV deals rather than a collective league hence why Real and Barcelona have the vast majority of TV income.

[Winston Ingram]

For all those saying it's about money, it plays a part, but there is absolutely no doubt that it's Europes elite v Europes elite.

As for those complaining about it's the same teams competing for it every year, name me a tournament that isn't?

Even then it's cyclicle. The last 5 years have been primarily Barca/Real/Bayern. Prior to that, the English Clubs were making up 3 of the last 4 for most of the noughties. Prior to that it was the Italian Clubs.

[Winston Ingram]

I could be wrong but I think in Spain the individual clubs negotiate the TV deals rather than a collective league hence why Real and Barcelona have the vast majority of TV income.

Up until this year Barca & Real didn't even pay tax.

That changed this year. On top of that, there has been a new TV deal which has created a far greater distribution of the money amongst the La Liga clubs rather than them creaming it all off themselves.

It's no great surprise that you've not seen any mega signings in La Liga

[Thecat23]

Does the name even remotely matter? It is called the English football league but has Swansea and Cardiff in it, no one cares about that.

Course it matters. Champions League is not full of champions. It's as as simple as that. It's packed with teams who bore the life out the game and it's designed to get the big teams through. It's utter pish!

[Hibby Bairn]

Almost as boring as the draw.

[Pretty Boy]

Course it matters. Champions League is not full of champions. It's as as simple as that. It's packed with teams who bore the life out the game and it's designed to get the big teams through. It's utter pish!

The views of the actual football fan who attends games don't really matter though. It's all about 'selling the brand', focussing on 'emerging markets' and 'growing the product'. I genuinely believe it won't be long until we see a Champions League final played in Dubai or kick off at stupid O'clock to appeal to the Asian and/or African TV audience. You only have to look at the following of the big European clubs on social media to see that's where the new lucrative market is. UEFA are hardly hiding the fact it's where they are aiming at either.

People often talk about the 'elite' going it alone as some kind of doomsday scenario. If they want to go off and form an NFL style competition with no threat to their status then let them do it imo. The rest of us can get on with it and the half and half scarf wearing, 'lyk dis if you think MUFC is da best, United 4 life', armchair dwelling 'fans' who want to enjoy 'their' teams success can do so.

[Thecat23]

The views of the actual football fan who attends games don't really matter though. It's all about 'selling the brand', focussing on 'emerging markets' and 'growing the product'. I genuinely believe it won't be long until we see a Champions League final played in Dubai or kick off at stupid O'clock to appeal to the Asian and/or African TV audience. You only have to look at the following of the big European clubs on social media to see that's where the new lucrative market is. UEFA are hardly hiding the fact it's where they are aiming at either.

People often talk about the 'elite' going it alone as some kind of doomsday scenario. If they want to go off and form an NFL style competition with no threat to their status then let them do it imo. The rest of us can get on with it and the half and half scarf wearing, 'lyk dis if you think MUFC is da best, United 4 life', armchair dwelling 'fans' who want to enjoy 'their' teams success can do so.

Superb post and agree with all of it PB.

[Hibby Bairn]

That'll be the last gig the female presenter gets with UEFA.

[Billy Whizz]

That'll be the last gig the female presenter gets with UEFA.

Who is she

[Hibby Bairn]

Who is she

No idea. She is either very nervous...or just useless at presenting. I think probably a bit of both.

[Pete]

Liverpool and United in pot five?

[Lancs Harp]

Liverpool are in the same pot as Accrington Stanley and Queens Park

[Billy Whizz]

Tough draw for Celtic

[BroxburnHibee]

Celtic get Barca & Man City.....

[lucky]

Great games for Celtic fans but a near impossible task of qualifying

[Lago]

Barcelona & Man. City again for Celtic, kind of boring.:greengrin

[0762]

Group C: Barcelona, Manchester City, Borussia Monchengladbach, Celtic
If you're a Celtic Fan that's the group of death!

[Pete]

Celtic will need to bring their own ball to these games.

[Lancs Harp]

That's a hell of a group and although its extremely tough for Celtic I reckon they will give one of those teams a bloody nose at Parkhead. Don't fancy them picking anything up away though especially with their away form in Europe.

[NAE NOOKIE]

It's interesting, there seems to be a general objection to the 'rich' clubs dominating in Europe, or the Old Firm in Scotland, yet there was something of a backlash when Falkirk where complaining about the disparity between us and them...

It's all relative, and at every level, football favours the haves over the have nots. I don't have much of an objection to Real Madrid dominating in Europe, there's no system that would prevent the big clubs from doing so. Some of the suggestions that would result in lots of 'little' clubs competing would serve to reduce the amount of money a club gets for competing, and probably encourage the big sides to abandon the pretense and establish their own closed shop.

Yes ... but the saving grace in Scotland was and is the fact that even if the league is sewn up between two clubs the cup competitions give a lot of clubs a chance of glory. In the last 5 years there has been 5 different winners of the Scottish cup and 5 different winners of the League cup .... if those competitions had been seeded to ensure that the old firm Hearts and Aberdeen couldn't meet each other until the semi finals would that be the case?

The top clubs in Europe have always been there or thereabouts and always will be, but we are in a situation now where competitions are almost fixed to ensure they keep that position .... but don't tell me that an open draw where Barcelona could meet Man Utd and Bayern Munich could meet Real Madrid in the 2nd round wouldn't at least increase the chances of a less fashionable and less wealthy club sneaking through and winning the competition .... that's a system right there that would reduce the chances of Real Madrid domination in Europe.

If the clubs are that worried about the money in the game perhaps they should think of fixing a situation that allows Paul Pogba's agent to make 25 million quid out of one transfer..... If there was a Europe wide wages cap perhaps the clubs wouldn't need to generate the insane amounts of income they need to survive, it works in other sports just as big as football, the NFL for a kick off, and if that means the top players leaving Europe to play in China good riddance I say.

If the 'big clubs' want to establish a closed shop then let them, lets call their bluff ..... As I said before, football exists on traditional rivalries many going back a hundred years ... you cant make that happen artificially, how long until Man Utd v Bayern Munich or Arsenal v PSG stops grabbing the attention of fans who no doubt will be asked to pay through the nose for the privilege of watching them? The whole allure of European football was that you got to see teams and players in the flesh that you normally only knew about from the TV .... if seeing these teams becomes commonplace much of the allure is gone and with the giants like Real and Barca still dominating this new European league utopia they all dream about the fans will desert in droves and the TV money will go with them.

[Hibby Bairn]

Craig Gordon will have a sleepless night. A few tankings ahead I think.

[Alex Trager]

For all those saying it's about money, it plays a part, but there is absolutely no doubt that it's Europes elite v Europes elite.

As for those complaining about it's the same teams competing for it every year, name me a tournament that isn't?

Even then it's cyclicle. The last 5 years have been primarily Barca/Real/Bayern. Prior to that, the English Clubs were making up 3 of the last 4 for most of the noughties. Prior to that it was the Italian Clubs.

And prior to that when it was the old format?
Not sure of the answer but it's just a crap format.

It is truly set up to allow those at the top continue to get wealthier and better.

It's a terrible knockout competition.

If you have lesser teams winning it to say that would be less appealing is mental.

See Leicester last season, how many were behind them because they were the underdog?

I'd watch it if was a matter of a lesser team versus barca. And I'd want the lesser side to win.

[CB_NO3]

Crazy to think Celtic will make about 6 million pound out of gate money for these 3 home games alone.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Toughest possible group for Celtic, but, their current squad as it is, qualification and the prize money for so doing was the aim, and they've done that. Realistically, they know they aren't good enough to make the last sixteen, so, in a way, who they draw doesn't matter. From their point of view, it's ties against two of the best teams in Europe right now and an enormous cheque heading their way.

[pennyhibee]

Well I hope Celtic do well and maybe help Scotland get a wee bit more respect like they did in 1967 when they were given no chance

[Winston Ingram]

And prior to that when it was the old format?
Not sure of the answer but it's just a crap format.

It is truly set up to allow those at the top continue to get wealthier and better.

It's a terrible knockout competition.

If you have lesser teams winning it to say that would be less appealing is mental.

See Leicester last season, how many were behind them because they were the underdog?

I'd watch it if was a matter of a lesser team versus barca. And I'd want the lesser side to win.

Each to their own I suppose.

I like the format. Europe is a huge continent that deserves a competition that demonstrates with some credibility who is the best side.

A knockout onlyformat doesn't do that. There is a huge element of luck involved in it which is why you regularly see winners of them that'll never win leagues.

While there's domestic leagues, a league format isn't possible. I think the current group format helps eliminate the more flukey progression through the early rounds as you need more quality to get through 6 games.

I'm not saying it's perfect but the current format provides a credible measure of the best side in Europe

[Dashing Bob S]

A solitary point from six games in that section would be a bit of a coup for Celtic.

[Alex Trager]

Each to their own I suppose.

I like the format. Europe is a huge continent that deserves a competition that demonstrates with some credibility who is the best side.

A knockout onlyformat doesn't do that. There is a huge element of luck involved in it which is why you regularly see winners of them that'll never win leagues.

While there's domestic leagues, a league format isn't possible. I think the current group format helps eliminate the more flukey progression through the early rounds as you need more quality to get through 6 games.

I'm not saying it's perfect but the current format provides a credible measure of the best side in Europe

Whilst I agree it does showcase the best in Europe it is hugely unfair to set it up in a manner that best remain the best, minus the odd year.

[sambajustice]

#Pray4Timmy

[Winston Ingram]

Whilst I agree it does showcase the best in Europe it is hugely unfair to set it up in a manner that best remain the best, minus the odd year.

I can't really see how that differs from other tournaments. The seeded format is the same through all FIFA/UEFA competitions. You have to get the crap out of the way or you'd end up with the likes of Lincoln Red Imps in it or San Marino in the World Cup.

The CL changed it's format to ensure the winners of the 8 highest ranking leagues automatically go into pot 1 to help increase the chances of smaller clubs get through. As a result you get Teams like CSKA getting seeded

[ekhibee]

I used to watch it, but just for games like Galatasaray v Wolfsburg or Monaco v Slavia Prague, cos I got really fed up watching the same teams reaching the semifinals etc, but after we switched to Virgin I didn't bother getting Sky Sports in the package and had no regrets about that at all. I know BT are taking a lot of the coverage now, but like others I won't be watching it. I'm obviously a bit too nostalgic, used to love when the World Cup came along and you got to see players like Pele, Falcao, Eder etc that you didn't normally see on tv, but now their players all play in Europe anyway so a lot of the time you know how a game's going to pan out before it's even been played.

[mjhibby]

Haven't watched a Champions league match in at least two years and my interest hasn't been rekindled by Celtic qualifying.

In the unlikely event Hibs ever qualified I would watch it but in reality this self serving, snouts in the trough frenzy holds absolutely no appeal for me whatsoever.

Sporting integrity and the 'Champions' league parted company a long, long time ago.

My thoughts exactly. I have had no interest in watching Chelsea or man city in the champions league two clubs surviving on having billionaire chairman. I will watch Leicester and spurs as they are a breath of fresh air against the usual top four in England. Apart from that won't be watching anything else.

[CABBAGEMAD]

is it true that we get £50 000 from Celtic with them qualifying for group stages think it was part of the Scott Allan deal or was that just paper talk :thumbsup:

[emerald green]

This.

They've laboured through their qualifiers against the might of the Champions of Gibralter, Azerbaijan and Israel.

Wait till they play someone remotely useful. They're going to get absolutely battered.

That's probably true, but they will be £25million at least better off I heard somewhere. It's all about the money.

I lost interest in this particular competition some years ago.

[Phil MaGlass]

OMG sellik could be in for a good couple of humpings there, Barcelona first game OMG, does getting beat 5 or 6-0 effect yir co efficient:greengrin

[NAE NOOKIE]

The views of the actual football fan who attends games don't really matter though. It's all about 'selling the brand', focussing on 'emerging markets' and 'growing the product'. I genuinely believe it won't be long until we see a Champions League final played in Dubai or kick off at stupid O'clock to appeal to the Asian and/or African TV audience. You only have to look at the following of the big European clubs on social media to see that's where the new lucrative market is. UEFA are hardly hiding the fact it's where they are aiming at either.

People often talk about the 'elite' going it alone as some kind of doomsday scenario. If they want to go off and form an NFL style competition with no threat to their status then let them do it imo. The rest of us can get on with it and the half and half scarf wearing, 'lyk dis if you think MUFC is da best, United 4 life', armchair dwelling 'fans' who want to enjoy 'their' teams success can do so.

This should be on mugs and T shirts http://www.hibs.net/images/smilies/top%20marks.gif

[lord bunberry]

I don't think the champions league can be described as the elite when David Gray isn't involved.

[3pm]

Now confirmed that, from 2018, the top 4 teams from the top 4 leagues (Germany, Spain, England and Italy) have automatic qualification into the group stages.

That's half the spaces taken already.

[Winston Ingram]

That's probably true, but they will be £25million at least better off I heard somewhere. It's all about the money.

I lost interest in this particular competition some years ago.

It's all about the money for clubs like Celtic as they are miles away from Europes elite and are never going to win it.

It's less about the money for the big 4 leagues as they make far more from domestic TV deals

[magpie1892]

It's less about the money for the big 4 leagues as they make far more from domestic TV deals

Not in Italy, not in Spain and not in Germany. Real Madrid made £80m from winning the EC last season. The team that finished bottom of the Premiership this season will pocket £100m.

For the English clubs it may well be less about the money, but not the other three as their TV deals are miniscule compared to the EPL's £9bn TV deal.

Totally ****ing ruining football though, I assume we agree on that.

[Winston Ingram]

Not in Italy, not in Spain and not in Germany. Real Madrid made £80m from winning the EC last season. The team that finished bottom of the Premiership this season will pocket £100m.

For the English clubs it may well be less about the money, but not the other three as their TV deals are miniscule compared to the EPL's £9bn TV deal.

Totally ****ing ruining football though, I assume we agree on that.


It's £80m if you win it but there is only 1 winner. As a minimum your taking away £20m.

Over the last 10 years there have been 7 winners, Barca, Real, Bayern, Inter, AC Milan, Chelsea and Man U. Barca, Real, Man U, Bayern all earn approx €500m a year. That £80m is hardly a game changer.

As for annual domestic TV money the weakest is Germany where they get about £30m on average. In Italy last year Juve £58m, Roma £54m, Fiorentina £65m. Spain - Barca, £108m, Real £108m. Hardly miniscule.

It's not the money coming from the CL that's ruining football as clubs in the leagues i mentioned earn much more money elsewhere.

[superfurryhibby]

No longer interested in European football. Over exposed and no connection to the teams involved.

In the old days you would get Liverpool, Nottingham Forest and Aston Villa, teams with healthy Scottish representation. Up until the 80's Scottish teams could hqve a decent run, like Dundee Utd or Aberdeen.

Now it's just a greed fest, set up to benefit the rich clubs and exclude the rise of a team from a lesser league.

Of course, it's symptomatic of the changes seen in football over the past thirty years or so. No way could a team like Celtic do so well or an Ajax nurture and hold on to players like Cruyff and dominate the tournament for a several years. It's sad in my view and I suppose reflect the wider trends in our disposable, consumer oriented society. Not all changes are good!

[superfurryhibby]

No longer interested in European football. Over exposed and no connection to the teams involved.

In the old days you would get Liverpool, Nottingham Forest and Aston Villa, teams with healthy Scottish representation. Up until the 80's Scottish teams could hqve a decent run, like Dundee Utd or Aberdeen.

Now it's just a greed fest, set up to benefit the rich clubs and exclude the rise of a team from a lesser league.

Of course, it's symptomatic of the changes seen in football over the past thirty years or so. No way could a team like Celtic do so well or an Ajax nurture and hold on to players like Cruyff and dominate the tournament for a several years. It's sad in my view and I suppose reflect the wider trends in our disposable, consumer oriented society. Not all changes are good!

[SJNB Hibby]

The threat seems to be a breakaway league---but I'm not sure how that would work or help. If you had an elite League with 5 from England, 4 from Germany, 5 from Italy, 4 from Spain, plus throw in Ajax and Porto, and they played in a league format---half of those teams would be out of contention by January---whereas in the present format---16 teams are still IN contention in February. Who would watch Manyew v Roma in February if neither team could win the 'league'. I think UEFA are being held to ransom with an unviable threat here----they should call their bluff
And how come member countries---and there's a lot---are voting to decrease their own representation

[jgl07]

I could be wrong but I think in Spain the individual clubs negotiate the TV deals rather than a collective league hence why Real and Barcelona have the vast majority of TV income.

Clubs do negotiate individual TV deals in Spain.

[magpie1892]

It's £80m if you win it but there is only 1 winner. As a minimum your taking away £20m.

Over the last 10 years there have been 7 winners, Barca, Real, Bayern, Inter, AC Milan, Chelsea and Man U. Barca, Real, Man U, Bayern all earn approx €500m a year. That £80m is hardly a game changer.

As for annual domestic TV money the weakest is Germany where they get about £30m on average. In Italy last year Juve £58m, Roma £54m, Fiorentina £65m. Spain - Barca, £108m, Real £108m. Hardly miniscule.

It's not the money coming from the CL that's ruining football as clubs in the leagues i mentioned earn much more money elsewhere.

The CL is ruining football. It's ****ing boring, and getting worse.

[jgl07]

The views of the actual football fan who attends games don't really matter though. It's all about 'selling the brand', focussing on 'emerging markets' and 'growing the product'. I genuinely believe it won't be long until we see a Champions League final played in Dubai or kick off at stupid O'clock to appeal to the Asian and/or African TV audience. You only have to look at the following of the big European clubs on social media to see that's where the new lucrative market is. UEFA are hardly hiding the fact it's where they are aiming at either.

Ridiculous kick off times like 3:00 pm?

The reason that the English Premier League is so popular in the Middle East and parts of Asia is that the 3:00 pm kick off time is in the early early evening. The Champions League matches are in the middle of the night!

Most of Africa is in the same time zone as Europe.