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California-Hibs
13-08-2016, 03:58 PM
Now don't get me wrong, it's all about the 3 points, but we got away with that one today. We need to start playing a heck of a lot better than that or we'll start to get punished. I think today has again highlighted the need for signings. Without McGeough and Fyvie in that midfield, and of course no Henderson, we badly are lacking in the creativity department.

We can't line up with Bartley and McGinn as the only recognized midfielders and rely on Gray and Stevenson for width. This needs addressed.

I don't think many of the 16k+ fans would of been too impressed today and that disappoints me. Really wish Holt had put one of his 2 golden chances away which would of made it a bit easier and bred mire confidence.

We've still given ourself a platform though with 6/6 points.

Ferry green
13-08-2016, 04:01 PM
After Tuesday that was a huge result. Two games, two wins, gap already. Huge

Allant1981
13-08-2016, 04:02 PM
Really not fussed if we play pretty football or not this season, we need to win games and get promotion, if we play below par and win every week ill be happy

matty_f
13-08-2016, 04:04 PM
We made very hard work of that. Very happy to get the points but the performance left a lot to be desired.

Definitely need new faces in that team asap. I think we've been fortunate that we've collected two wins so might have got away with not sitting our squad out early. That luck won't last though.

nellio
13-08-2016, 04:05 PM
Agree with the OP.

Formation all wrong for me. Not enough pace in the side. Need to move the ball quicker. IMO we should move away from the 3 central defenders and play some wingers or at least wider central midfielders with Gray and Stevenson overlapping. Thought we were lucky to win today.

Their goal was great mind!

California-Hibs
13-08-2016, 04:06 PM
Really not fussed if we play pretty football or not this season, we need to win games and get promotion, if we play below par and win every week ill be happy

Oh same here. However statistics dictate that if we play bellow par we will NOT win every game as we'll inevitably get punished at times.

Borderhibbie76
13-08-2016, 04:08 PM
It's not good enough I agree very lucky today...of course il take it but I hate this formation - and when only playing 2 central mids...1 can't be Bartley.
On another note...Collum is still murder

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Carheenlea
13-08-2016, 04:10 PM
Once we scored the second we had our best spell of game. The trickery and pace of Boyle and the dynamism of McGeouch had us looking a lot better.
Not a great performance, but a great three points.

Hibby Kay-Yay
13-08-2016, 04:19 PM
3pts is always good enough, always.

Baw187
13-08-2016, 04:23 PM
It wasn't great at times but we could have been out of sight at half time again.

We need to cease the 3-5-2 as we don't look comfortable at all and it was no surprise to me that bring Dylan on and going 4-4-2 with Squirrel that we then minimised Dunfermline much better and were much better on the ball.


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CRAZYHIBBY
13-08-2016, 04:23 PM
Sniff my manky ring......we won ...we got 3 points...we won ugly

Killiehibbie
13-08-2016, 04:25 PM
Only thing that matters is getting more points than anybody else, if we achieve that with a bit style that's a bonus. Getting out of this league is the all that matters.

sleeping giant
13-08-2016, 04:26 PM
2 wins against teams that may be in the mix at the end of the season.

lord bunberry
13-08-2016, 04:27 PM
It was hard work today, but we were just the better team. Boyle and Dylan made the difference when they came on. In fact Boyle was outstanding.

stoneyburn hibs
13-08-2016, 04:28 PM
Wasn't a great performance but that's maximum points. We will improve and still to add to the squad, that will do for starters.

Big_Franck
13-08-2016, 04:29 PM
That was poor, very similar to Tuesday. We got three points though and hopefully Lennon will learn from it. We cant persist with stevenson and gray as wingbacks.

Eaststandee
13-08-2016, 04:32 PM
20 minutes of that second half was absolutely dreadful and it must be adressed, 3 points or not.

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SouthMoroccoStu
13-08-2016, 04:34 PM
Not pretty but 6 points from the first 2 games

We've not done that in 7 seasons

But we will improve

We may not have been too pretty but the Rangers and hearts did plenty of that in the previous 2 season

neil7908
13-08-2016, 04:36 PM
Lennon has talked about a winning mentality and we still need to instill that in team. We should have been out of site long before there second goal and we also began to panic somewhat once they equalised.

However, Lennon needs to look at the formation, the way were set up and the effect it has on our play. I'm still confident for this season but we need reinforcements in key positions and a switch in playing style.

500miles
13-08-2016, 04:37 PM
We should have had more goals, but they've got some good, quick players and Higginbotham can be a great player when he gets it right.

Mibbes Aye
13-08-2016, 04:38 PM
Oh same here. However statistics dictate that if we play bellow par we will NOT win every game as we'll inevitably get punished at times.

Two wins is two wins.

We will turn the style on as we settle in, I don't doubt that. We will also strengthen the squad with players who our opponents couldn't attract.

When we were seeking promotion in 98-99 we started slowly - four points from the first nine, eight from the first eighteen.

We are six from six against two of the better teams in this league. I'm comfortable with that.

CraigHibee
13-08-2016, 04:39 PM
We made it difficult for ourselves at times but the main fact is another 3 points on the board

Stevie Reid
13-08-2016, 04:40 PM
It was a good day at the office, and most certainly good enough. We've played much better than that in many championship games in the last two seasons and not won. We made it hard for ourselves, sure - but we were the better team, with by far the better chances, and deserved winners.

Happy with that.

adhibs
13-08-2016, 04:42 PM
Expect far better from hibs. Its fair enough saying the 3 points is what matters, keep turning in performances like that though and we wont be so lucky next time. Bin that 3-5-2 and go with the team that finished next week (excpet the mcgregor sub).

ggth
13-08-2016, 04:42 PM
Now don't get me wrong, it's all about the 3 points, but we got away with that one today. We need to start playing a heck of a lot better than that or we'll start to get punished. I think today has again highlighted the need for signings. Without McGeough and Fyvie in that midfield, and of course no Henderson, we badly are lacking in the creativity department.

We can't line up with Bartley and McGinn as the only recognized midfielders and rely on Gray and Stevenson for width. This needs addressed.

I don't think many of the 16k+ fans would of been too impressed today and that disappoints me. Really wish Holt had put one of his 2 golden chances away which would of made it a bit easier and bred mire confidence.

We've still given ourself a platform though with 6/6 points.

agree 100%

thought early on super John McGin was gonna score first cracking performance, no sure about the cummings/ holt partnership as we struggled with the route one, thought the threat level was better once Boyle and Mcgeough came on.
reckon we need at least 3 players, new LB and 2 strikers

NORTHERNHIBBY
13-08-2016, 04:42 PM
Agree that we are still yet to click but I am not mumping tonight because the last two league games are the type we would have drawn last season. Been ahead and then pulled back and then be holding on for point. When I open the paper tomorrow we will have six from six and how got them is secondary.

Stevie Reid
13-08-2016, 04:42 PM
Expect far better from hibs. Its fair enough saying the 3 points is what matters, keep turning in performances like that though and we wont be so lucky next time. Bin that 3-5-2 and go with the team that finished next week (excpet the mcgregor sub).

We weren't lucky this time.

Sean1875
13-08-2016, 04:46 PM
there's just a lack of urgency that gets me. so many times today we were going on the attack and players just casually jogging along almost like they didn't want to get involved. at one point we had 3 players in the box with the ball and looking dangerous and McGinn and Bartley were practically walking from the half way line to join the attack.. should be busting a gut to get in there and support.


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lyonhibs
13-08-2016, 04:46 PM
We won, so we were clearly good enough on the day. Over the course of the season, improvement required obviously. It'll take a bit of time for everything to click under Lennon but we're taking 3 points in the meantime.

That'll do nicely.

The Captain....
13-08-2016, 04:47 PM
I thought we were shocking today til Dylan and Boyle came on and injected some much needed skill and pace. I am not a fan of the signing of Holt, he is a player to bring on later in games to create a bit of panic but other than that he offers very little thru not being sharp enough. We too often go aimlessly long with him starting IMO as well.

Three points and huge relief to win but there is a hell of a lot to improve on.


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ancient hibee
13-08-2016, 04:48 PM
We weren't lucky this time.


No no jokes please.

bingo70
13-08-2016, 04:52 PM
Two wins is two wins.

We will turn the style on as we settle in, I don't doubt that. We will also strengthen the squad with players who our opponents couldn't attract.

When we were seeking promotion in 98-99 we started slowly - four points from the first nine, eight from the first eighteen.

We are six from six against two of the better teams in this league. I'm comfortable with that.

When it's the same players as last year with the same problems as last year I don't really see where you're confidence is coming from.

3 points is great but we found out last year that if you consistently struggle to put teams away and keep scrapping narrow wins its inevitable we'll drop points. We should, and need to be putting these teams away and start gubbing them by 3 and 4, if we do that teams might start to defend nervously against us.

Hopefully a couple of new signings might make a difference and it's unlikely any team will run away with the league like has happened the last couple of years so I'm not saying it's all doom and gloom, I am a little concerned though.

CallumLaidlaw
13-08-2016, 04:53 PM
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160813/3e5794dd44f9907473e537e2d36a26f0.jpg

No luck in the stats. We were good enough because we won.

We're never happy. If it's a choice of results or performance, for this season I choose results. The performance will come, I'm sure of it

adhibs
13-08-2016, 04:53 PM
We weren't lucky this time.

One of our goals being a howler of an og says otherwise

Real Emerald
13-08-2016, 04:55 PM
We weren't lucky this time.

I don't think we were lucky but we got away with it. The formation isn't suiting anyone and keeping missing chances will come back to haunt us if it keeps happening like last year.

McGeough and Boyle made a difference when they came on but McGinn is playing too deep and we have no proper centre forward cover, we had no strikers on the bench to bring on.

We've got 6 points out of 6 against two tough teams which is brilliant so very happy about that. Tuesday however was a disaster and the worrying thing for me is the tactics and lack of cover, both of these things were in evidence today. Maybe the formation he's playing is due to the injuries in midfield so time will tell.

Steve20
13-08-2016, 04:56 PM
Very poor performance. But we've won 2 out of 2 in the league and that'll do me for a start.

bingo70
13-08-2016, 04:59 PM
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160813/3e5794dd44f9907473e537e2d36a26f0.jpg

No luck in the stats. We were good enough because we won.

We're never happy. If it's a choice of results or performance, for this season I choose results. The performance will come, I'm sure of it

That's quite simplistic Callum.

we won't win the league by winning today, people are allowed to discuss the performance as well as the result.

IMO if we play like that every week we will struggle to win the league, that's got to be relevant to this discussion surely?

WhileTheChief..
13-08-2016, 04:59 PM
Not bothered at all about performances this season, all about the points for me. Would settle for this every week.

lord bunberry
13-08-2016, 04:59 PM
Very poor performance. But we've won 2 out of 2 in the league and that'll do me for a start.

I'm not having that. Your post could almost be considered positive:greengrin where will this end

BoomtownHibees
13-08-2016, 05:02 PM
Winning ugly is what we needed to add from last season IMO

lord bunberry
13-08-2016, 05:02 PM
That's quite simplistic Callum.

we won't win the league by winning today, people are allowed to discuss the performance as well as the result.

IMO if we play like that every week we will struggle to win the league, that's got to be relevant to this discussion surely?

That all depends on how strong you think Dunfermline are. If they push us all the way and finish second, today's result and performance will be looked upon as a great result. Time will tell, but it's too early to judge imo.

B.H.F.C
13-08-2016, 05:03 PM
Get points on the board early and the performances will come. Really need a couple of new faces in, we need to freshen things up a bit.

Two league games and only Cummings has scored. We need to address that.

Stevie Reid
13-08-2016, 05:08 PM
One of our goals being a howler of an og says otherwise

Both goals were poor defending from them under pressure from us. If we'd lost those goals would you say we were unlucky?

RoYO!
13-08-2016, 05:08 PM
That was winning ugly. A great sign if you ask me.

Much more to come from us.

HibeeLR
13-08-2016, 05:09 PM
We haven't played great over the two games, but to start the season getting 6 points from them is good, plus that's us 5 points ahead of both Falkirk and Dundee United who are our most likely challengers for the league. 👍

bingo70
13-08-2016, 05:09 PM
That all depends on how strong you think Dunfermline are. If they push us all the way and finish second, today's result and performance will be looked upon as a great result. Time will tell, but it's too early to judge imo.

Hope so but my impression today was that it was all to familiar from last season.

Fwiw I actually thought Dunfermline were quite good in spells and a lot better than most teams from last season, I still want to see a lot more from us this season though.

Pretty Boy
13-08-2016, 05:14 PM
6 points from 6 is great, no arguments from me.

Play like that every week and we'll throw away daft points though so the performance is up for discussion imo. We improved a lot when McGeough came on, we need to keep him fit.

Onion
13-08-2016, 05:14 PM
Good 3pts but agree with the OP. Got to hope Lennon's upbeat post-match comments mask his true feelings and he realises that the team structure and tactics need some work.

6 pts, two wins, against two tight opponents is vg start, though.

Highland_Hibee
13-08-2016, 05:15 PM
What game were folk at that say we didn't get lucky!? We won via an own goal and a defensive howler. I'll take getting lucky when we get 3pts though. We lost 3-1 and bounced straight back with a win in the league so I'm happy.

Thecat23
13-08-2016, 05:15 PM
Listen last two seasons we played great in games and drew or lost. We had folk screaming it's points that matter. Today we should have been 3 up before they scored 1. Wasn't as bad as folk are saying as we created a fair few chances again.

Winning ugly is how leagues are won, we can't always have it both ways.

Thecat23
13-08-2016, 05:17 PM
Also Hibs play much better playing 4-4-2 and funnily enough "the diamond" shape that Lennon seemed to go with when he made the subs.

Stevie Reid
13-08-2016, 05:24 PM
What game were folk at that say we didn't get lucky!? We won via an own goal and a defensive howler. I'll take getting lucky when we get 3pts though. We lost 3-1 and bounced straight back with a win in the league so I'm happy.

Those goals were bad defending from Dunfermline - that's not luck. Saying that we were lucky to win implies that Dunfermline were unlucky to lose - that certainly wasn't the case. They were more in the game than I wanted them to be, but we were superior in every measurable way today, and well deserved winners.

Real Emerald
13-08-2016, 05:24 PM
Listen last two seasons we played great in games and drew or lost. We had folk screaming it's points that matter. Today we should have been 3 up before they scored 1. Wasn't as bad as folk are saying as we created a fair few chances again.

Winning ugly is how leagues are won, we can't always have it both ways.

Winning ugly is great and so is the 100% league record but I think the point folk are making is you won't get 3 points every week if you have performances like that. We have to stop being in a one goal up situation in this league, we need to start putting teams away or we will drop needless points. We seen it on Wednesday and we seen on a good few occassions last season. The squad looks a bit bare just now and we really need to add to it. Other teams in this league don't have our budget so we have to make it count and not give teams hope late in games.

BSEJVT
13-08-2016, 05:24 PM
6 points is the bottom line and that's what matters but I thought we were really poor.

That formation will have McGinn goosed by the end of September

He is asked to do the job of 3 men

Its no accident that we were cut apart at their goal today as we were by QOTS

If we don't have midfielders tracking runners the central defenders get sucked out of position and a couple of quick ones two's and boom they are in.

Keatings for all he is a fine footballer, couldn't tackle a fish supper and is continuously caught on the wrong side.

I don't blame him, he is being asked to fulfil an unfamiliar role.

Playing 3 central defenders and a holding midfielder and not being able to keep a clean sheet at home to Dunfermline is an indication its not working

Bartley for all his attributes is worse than a man short going forward.

Stevenson and Gary are easily shut out the game and their delivery's aren't reliable enough to create much

I would go 442

Its obvious we are going to need to create barrowloads of chances to score, same as in previous years and 3-5-2 wont do it

snooky
13-08-2016, 05:28 PM
Winning ugly is what we needed to add from last season IMO

Sign Steve Fulton and quick.

Mibbes Aye
13-08-2016, 05:30 PM
When it's the same players as last year with the same problems as last year I don't really see where you're confidence is coming from.

3 points is great but we found out last year that if you consistently struggle to put teams away and keep scrapping narrow wins its inevitable we'll drop points. We should, and need to be putting these teams away and start gubbing them by 3 and 4, if we do that teams might start to defend nervously against us.

Hopefully a couple of new signings might make a difference and it's unlikely any team will run away with the league like has happened the last couple of years so I'm not saying it's all doom and gloom, I am a little concerned though.

That's not what's happening though. We've played two games, without our final squad, against two of our strongest opponents and we've taken six points.

By the end of the window I believe we will have brought in better players than our opponents - do you really think Dunfermline will bring in someone better? Are they going to sign Liam Henderson? Could they have bought Grant Holt?

In reference to your other point, when we sailed to promotion in 98-99, we didn't gub teams by three or four that often. We won the league comfortably but we didn't dispense that many thrashings.

I understand your concern and I would be lying if I said it doesn't lurk at the back of my mind also, but simply put, we are getting the points on the board, we know we are missing key players who will come back and we know we will acquire better players than our opponents can prior to the window closing.

green day
13-08-2016, 05:32 PM
I suspect we are playing this formation out of necessity, although I would have had Martin instead of Bartley.

It's obvious to a blind man that it worked better 442, but as I said I think he didn't want to introduce McGeogh too early.

Incidentally, Fonts was unlucky to be hooked as he got to everything with his head.

I'm more concerned with Holt at the moment, we need some striking options.

bingo70
13-08-2016, 05:36 PM
That's not what's happening though. We've played two games, without our final squad, against two of our strongest opponents and we've taken six points.

By the end of the window I believe we will have brought in better players than our opponents - do you really think Dunfermline will bring in someone better? Are they going to sign Liam Henderson? Could they have bought Grant Holt?

In reference to your other point, when we sailed to promotion in 98-99, we didn't gub teams by three or four that often. We won the league comfortably but we didn't dispense that many thrashings.

I understand your concern and I would be lying if I said it doesn't lurk at the back of my mind also, but simply put, we are getting the points on the board, we know we are missing key players who will come back and we know we will acquire better players than our opponents can prior to the window closing.

All good points and I'm not going to go out my way to argue negatives from what was a good win. Ultimately watching it I wasn't overly enthralled watching that today and that's what I was basing my judgement on, hopefully you're right about the improvements before the end of the window.

Regards to the 98/99 season, my memory from that is a slow start but pumping loads of teams quite convincingly? Long time ago though so you might be right

hfc rd
13-08-2016, 05:36 PM
Not bothered at all about performances this season, all about the points for me. Would settle for this every week.



Absolutely spot on! Couldn't care less if it wasn't a "Barca style" performance, the 3 points are the most important if we want to get out of this league!

Will take this every week, if it results in us winning the league and getting this club back to where it belongs.

hibee_girl
13-08-2016, 05:38 PM
Not bothered at all about performances this season, all about the points for me. Would settle for this every week.

Exactly.

It's like Andy Murray said the other night, ' I won, that's all that matters'

Real Emerald
13-08-2016, 05:39 PM
6 points is the bottom line and that's what matters but I thought we were really poor.

That formation will have McGinn goosed by the end of September

He is asked to do the job of 3 men

Its no accident that we were cut apart at their goal today as we were by QOTS

If we don't have midfielders tracking runners the central defenders get sucked out of position and a couple of quick ones two's and boom they are in.

Keatings for all he is a fine footballer, couldn't tackle a fish supper and is continuously caught on the wrong side.

I don't blame him, he is being asked to fulfil an unfamiliar role.

Playing 3 central defenders and a holding midfielder and not being able to keep a clean sheet at home to Dunfermline is an indication its not working

Bartley for all his attributes is worse than a man short going forward.

Stevenson and Gary are easily shut out the game and their delivery's aren't reliable enough to create much

I would go 442

Its obvious we are going to need to create barrowloads of chances to score, same as in previous years and 3-5-2 wont do it

:top marks

Agree with everything you say here. I'm just a bit concerned that NL seems to think the formation is working. It did today (by getting the points) but like Tuesday proved it won't work every week. I'm hoping his lack of options just now is why he's sticking with it but I'm annoyed we don't have this sorted in time for the season to start. Happy to get away with 6 points out of 6 though but still not convinced at all. i thought we looked a shambles at times today and I've not thought that for a while.

superfurryhibby
13-08-2016, 05:40 PM
The positives from today were the points and the return of McGeouch. I thought the first half was ok, fairly comfortable, but too much reliance on the long ball at times, which did Holt no favours anyway , being up against that big fellae. We Still created chances and really should have had a few goals.

Second half was a times quite dire. Dunfermline came at us, we struggled to match them for a while and they merited the goal. Fortunately, Lennon then made changes and we regained the initiative.

FWIW, I suspect Dunfermline will do well this season, they passed the ball incisively at and had some tidy players in the right back, Cardle, Reilly and the centre half.

The three centre halfs and holding midfielder aren't needed and we need to get a player in front of Gray and Stevenson to offer more going forward. It's asking a hell of a lot of them.

Final observation is that Holt still needs to lose a bit weight and get a wee bit sharper. He looked ponderous at today and didn't have much luck against their defence

ancient hibee
13-08-2016, 05:40 PM
Absolutely spot on! Couldn't care less if it wasn't a "Barca style" performance, the 3 points are the most important if we want to get out of this league!

Will take this every week, if it results in us winning the league and getting this club back to where it belongs.

Surely it's not inflated ideas about performance it's that we had to be gifted two goals.

The Captain....
13-08-2016, 05:42 PM
6 points is the bottom line and that's what matters but I thought we were really poor.

That formation will have McGinn goosed by the end of September

He is asked to do the job of 3 men

Its no accident that we were cut apart at their goal today as we were by QOTS

If we don't have midfielders tracking runners the central defenders get sucked out of position and a couple of quick ones two's and boom they are in.

Keatings for all he is a fine footballer, couldn't tackle a fish supper and is continuously caught on the wrong side.

I don't blame him, he is being asked to fulfil an unfamiliar role.

Playing 3 central defenders and a holding midfielder and not being able to keep a clean sheet at home to Dunfermline is an indication its not working

Bartley for all his attributes is worse than a man short going forward.

Stevenson and Gary are easily shut out the game and their delivery's aren't reliable enough to create much

I would go 442

Its obvious we are going to need to create barrowloads of chances to score, same as in previous years and 3-5-2 wont do it

Good point re McGinn, I said the same at the game today - the formation asks a hell of a lot of him. He's willing and capable of it as today proved (he was our best player imo) but we should be sharing the load a little better. I'm not sure we get enough from Keatings in that position, its a striker or nothing for me and play an extra midfield player and don't start Holt and play a front two of Keatings and Cummings. Holt should only be used as an impact sub when we need a Plan B...he doesn't look sharp at all and has missed 4 or 5 good chances in the last two games.

Be interesting to see how the team shapes up when Dylan and Fyvie are fully fit.

Real Emerald
13-08-2016, 05:43 PM
Absolutely spot on! Couldn't care less if it wasn't a "Barca style" performance, the 3 points are the most important if we want to get out of this league!

Will take this every week, if it results in us winning the league and getting this club back to where it belongs.

The point you're missing is we won't get three points every week if the performances are like that. No one is asking for Barca performances.

Mibbes Aye
13-08-2016, 05:44 PM
All good points and I'm not going to go out my way to argue negatives from what was a good win. Ultimately watching it I wasn't overly enthralled watching that today and that's what I was basing my judgement on, hopefully you're right about the improvements before the end of the window.

Regards to the 98/99 season, my memory from that is a slow start but pumping loads of teams quite convincingly? Long time ago though so you might be right

I should have been there today but wasn't able to make it. Perhaps if if I had endured it it I would be less positive :greengrin

98-99, we dominated games but didn't necessarily score loads bar a purple patch over the turn of the year. It was probably the season I went to the most away games and from memory it was having to be patient, knowing we would win, but it taking time.

JimBHibees
13-08-2016, 05:51 PM
It was a good day at the office, and most certainly good enough. We've played much better than that in many championship games in the last two seasons and not won. We made it hard for ourselves, sure - but we were the better team, with by far the better chances, and deserved winners.

Happy with that.

Agree totally and we will only get better for sure. Good win and already 5 ahead of both Falkirk and United.

bookert
13-08-2016, 05:56 PM
6 points is the bottom line and that's what matters but I thought we were really poor.

That formation will have McGinn goosed by the end of September

He is asked to do the job of 3 men

Its no accident that we were cut apart at their goal today as we were by QOTS

If we don't have midfielders tracking runners the central defenders get sucked out of position and a couple of quick ones two's and boom they are in.

Keatings for all he is a fine footballer, couldn't tackle a fish supper and is continuously caught on the wrong side.

I don't blame him, he is being asked to fulfil an unfamiliar role.

Playing 3 central defenders and a holding midfielder and not being able to keep a clean sheet at home to Dunfermline is an indication its not working

Bartley for all his attributes is worse than a man short going forward.

Stevenson and Gary are easily shut out the game and their delivery's aren't reliable enough to create much

I would go 442

Its obvious we are going to need to create barrowloads of chances to score, same as in previous years and 3-5-2 wont do it
Agree with this absolutely, hope that's the three chs binned, we were much better with extra player in midfield.

Hibs90
13-08-2016, 06:06 PM
All about the 3 points although it was frustrating at times

SunshineOnLeith
13-08-2016, 06:31 PM
Hopefully that's the end of us playing 3 at the back in this league, absolute waste of a player against teams that aren't going to attack us and with two wing backs in Gray and Stevenson who are, primarily, defenders by nature.

Ronniekirk
13-08-2016, 06:32 PM
Frst game of the season A wins a win ,Holt not sure on that performance Should pf scored with feet and head imo Not surprised he was subbed Another Striker is needed that can score regularly We are reliant on cummings and he got one today and could of had mote
after we scored we dominated rest of first half but thier pace cused us problems
We have six points out of six but that petformance today wasnt what i expected
We defo need another few players in
Dylan makes sutch a difference I would worry f we cant keep him fit He is composed can create space for himself nd others an pick out a pass

Jim44
13-08-2016, 06:33 PM
I hope I see this thread title regularly this season.

Sas_The_Hibby
13-08-2016, 06:36 PM
We weren't lucky this time.

Own goal and a terrible defensive mistake for our goals - we won't get that on a weekly basis.

Real Emerald
13-08-2016, 06:37 PM
I hope I see this thread title regularly this season.

I would rather it said "3 points again as Hibs roll over the opposition after creating 20 chances" TBH :agree:

Stevie Reid
13-08-2016, 06:39 PM
Own goal and a terrible defensive mistake for our goals - we won't get that on a weekly basis.

We won't get an own goal every week, but teams will make defensive mistakes against us very regularly - we just need to capitalise, which we did today.

We weren't lucky today. We were deserved winners, and could have been by a bigger margin.

cleanyman
13-08-2016, 06:42 PM
Dunfermline will be gutted tonight.

That was turgid stuff.

Excellent start points wise but we need to improve massively

lord bunberry
13-08-2016, 06:42 PM
We won't get an own goal every week, but teams will make defensive mistakes against us very regularly - we just need to capitalise, which we did today.

We weren't lucky today. We were deserved winners, and could have been by a bigger margin.
:agree: Yes we weren't great today, but we were deserved winners.

Borderhibbie76
13-08-2016, 06:44 PM
I thought we were shocking today til Dylan and Boyle came on and injected some much needed skill and pace. I am not a fan of the signing of Holt, he is a player to bring on later in games to create a bit of panic but other than that he offers very little thru not being sharp enough. We too often go aimlessly long with him starting IMO as well.

Three points and huge relief to win but there is a hell of a lot to improve on.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Yup Holt is starting to concern me tbh looks well off the pace in the 3 matches this week and missing sitters to boot.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

The Leith Dutch
13-08-2016, 06:45 PM
Now don't get me wrong, it's all about the 3 points, but we got away with that one today. We need to start playing a heck of a lot better than that or we'll start to get punished. I think today has again highlighted the need for signings. Without McGeough and Fyvie in that midfield, and of course no Henderson, we badly are lacking in the creativity department.

We can't line up with Bartley and McGinn as the only recognized midfielders and rely on Gray and Stevenson for width. This needs addressed.

I don't think many of the 16k+ fans would of been too impressed today and that disappoints me. Really wish Holt had put one of his 2 golden chances away which would of made it a bit easier and bred mire confidence.

We've still given ourself a platform though with 6/6 points.

Agree with the above.

As you say 6 from 6 is good but my biggest concern is that it's the same stuff that caught us out last year: 15-20 shots, half of them on target but only 1 or 2 goals. We seem to have a combination of problems - no real goal scoring midfielders, very little pace, nobody outstanding at setting up great chances and a degree of wastefulness in the strikers (not a dig at Cummings as 3 in 2 games is great but would be nice to see him really explode this season and bang in 30+).

I think defensively we're comfortable if not exceptional but we're always going to be vulnerable to shipping points unless we start hitting 3 or 4 regularly (especially against the poorer teams).

Jim44
13-08-2016, 06:47 PM
Dunfermline will be gutted tonight.

That was turgid stuff.

Excellent start points wise but we need to improve massively

Yes, you're right we have to improve, and we will. I disagree that Dunfermline will be gutted. Stupid indecision gifted them a goal, and for a wee while we looked as if we might blow it. We didn't and we got a deserved win.

Stevie Reid
13-08-2016, 06:47 PM
Dunfermline will be gutted tonight.

That was turgid stuff.

Excellent start points wise but we need to improve massively

Why gutted? They contributed to the game, though I can only recall Laidlaw making one save of note - we were worthy winners, without ever really getting out of second gear. They can have no complaints.

Mibbes Aye
13-08-2016, 06:52 PM
Hopefully that's the end of us playing 3 at the back in this league, absolute waste of a player against teams that aren't going to attack us and with two wing backs in Gray and Stevenson who are, primarily, defenders by nature.

If we're shaping up against teams who will 'park the bus', then three at the back allows one of the back three to push up into midfield and help create an overload i.e. a numerical advantage

It then comes down to the quality of movement and passing - tactically it's spot on, but the onus is on the players to make sure they are moving and showing, as well as taking the ball well and being able to move it on accurately and quickly. That's what pulls the opposition out of position and will allow us the space for shots.

Sas_The_Hibby
13-08-2016, 06:53 PM
We won't get an own goal every week, but teams will make defensive mistakes against us very regularly - we just need to capitalise, which we did today.

We weren't lucky today. We were deserved winners, and could have been by a bigger margin.

This has been the case for the vast majority of games over the last two seasons but we hardly ever do win by a bigger margin. If we won every week by one goal I wouldn't be unhappy but if we continue to not turn possession into goals we will lose a fair few games, which is what happened last season. Oh, and the season before.........

Real Emerald
13-08-2016, 06:55 PM
Why gutted? They contributed to the game, though I can only recall Laidlaw making one save of note - we were worthy winners, without ever really getting out of second gear. They can have no complaints.

You're right in all of that but most teams coming to Easter Road will be the same. They'll be on the back foot for most of the game, have limited chances and a couple of shots on goal if they're lucky. The problem is that if we're only one up or drawing and one of their chances go in, it doesn't matter who deserves to win it. It happened a good few times last year, we need to impose ourselves and out score any one off goal threat the opposition may pose, luckily or otherwise.

We did it today as deserved winners but we didn't ever get ourselves into clear water and that's what I think most folk are concerned about.

Sas_The_Hibby
13-08-2016, 06:57 PM
Agree with the above.

As you say 6 from 6 is good but my biggest concern is that it's the same stuff that caught us out last year: 15-20 shots, half of them on target but only 1 or 2 goals. We seem to have a combination of problems - no real goal scoring midfielders, very little pace, nobody outstanding at setting up great chances and a degree of wastefulness in the strikers (not a dig at Cummings as 3 in 2 games is great but would be nice to see him really explode this season and bang in 30+).

I think defensively we're comfortable if not exceptional but we're always going to be vulnerable to shipping points unless we start hitting 3 or 4 regularly (especially against the poorer teams).

Agree entirely - how many times do our opponents score one out of two, or two out of three, shots on target, while we need ten or more shots to get a goal?

Sas_The_Hibby
13-08-2016, 06:58 PM
You're right in all of that but most teams coming to Easter Road will be the same. They'll be on the back foot for most of the game, have limited chances and a couple of shots on goal if they're lucky. The problem is that if we're only one up or drawing and one of their chances go in, it doesn't matter who deserves to win it. It happened a good few times last year, we need to impose ourselves and out score any one off goal threat the opposition may pose, luckily or otherwise.

We did it today as deserved winners but we didn't ever get ourselves into clear water and that's what I think most folk are concerned about.

And regularly score from one of their couple of shots. Unlike Hibs.........

Jim44
13-08-2016, 07:03 PM
Agree entirely - how many times do our opponents score one out of two, or two out of three, shots on target, while we need ten or more shots to get a goal?


And regularly score from one of their couple of shots. Unlike Hibs.........

Because a lot of our shots are taken through packed out penalty boxes while our opponents often have clearer space to shoot through.

StevieCowan
13-08-2016, 07:04 PM
I think we all know the performance wasn't great, it was good enough as we got 3 points though, but if you add in McGeough, Fyvie the new keeper plus the expected arrivals of another 1 or 2 then performances will improve.

5 points ahead of Dundee Utd and Falkirk already is a great start.

Real Emerald
13-08-2016, 07:07 PM
Because a lot of our shots are taken through packed out penalty boxes while our opponents often have clearer space to shoot through.

Very true but leaving the massive spaces in behind full backs for teams to break on isn't helping. Breaking down packed defences is difficult but in the last two games we've missed a number of chances that were gilt edged, near open goal type scenarios.

Sas_The_Hibby
13-08-2016, 07:09 PM
Because a lot of our shots are taken through packed out penalty boxes while our opponents often have clearer space to shoot through.

Well that's definitely put my mind at ease :greengrin

The point is Hearts regularly managed to beat the same teams, who were presumably using defensive tactics, comfortably two seasons ago and Rangers, to a lesser extent, did so last season. There's no reason why we shouldn't be winning some league games (not all by any means but some) by three or four goals but we hardly ever do.

HibbiesandtheBaddies
13-08-2016, 07:11 PM
We need to start pressing home the advantage, and Lennon admitted as much after the Falkirk game.

We were the better team till we scored, but then we seem to knock off the intensity / closing down and teams grow back into the game. Been like that for a while now. I

Stevie Reid
13-08-2016, 07:38 PM
We need to start pressing home the advantage, and Lennon admitted as much after the Falkirk game.

We were the better team till we scored, but then we seem to knock off the intensity / closing down and teams grow back into the game. Been like that for a while now. I

We were good from the goal until half time. We had several good opportunities from corners, Jason hit the post and their keeper had a superb save from McGinn's screamer. Thought we started the second half fine too, but the missed chances gave Dunfermline encouragement.

As much as it was edgy at times, the danger offered by them was always more perceived than it was a reality.

Franck Stanton
13-08-2016, 07:38 PM
Is it not the sign of a good team when they play badly but still win ? All the auld guys say that anyway.

Yes, poor performance in many ways today, however......we have players - good players - to return from injury plus...two / three new faces arriving soon, win any way we can just now. The "exhibition" wins will come later.

Eyrie
13-08-2016, 07:39 PM
I'll take three points every week, but it will be a lot easier on my nerves if Lennon drops this three at the back nonsense.

Given today's personnel and the need to manage McGeouch's return to the team, I'd have started Martin with Bartley and McGinn and dropped Fontaine because our best pairing is McGregor and Hanlon.. Keatings needs to be played up front, so I'd have him and Cummings flanking Holt.

SunshineOnLeith
13-08-2016, 07:39 PM
If we're shaping up against teams who will 'park the bus', then three at the back allows one of the back three to push up into midfield and help create an overload i.e. a numerical advantage

It then comes down to the quality of movement and passing - tactically it's spot on, but the onus is on the players to make sure they are moving and showing, as well as taking the ball well and being able to move it on accurately and quickly. That's what pulls the opposition out of position and will allow us the space for shots.

That's all well and good if you need three central defenders, but we could sacrifice one of them for a central midfielder and just play 4-4-2 and have that numerical advantage all the time.

In addition, none of our centre halves are any good at the "pushing into midfield" part. They're all good defenders, but we only need two of them playing at a time.

Sir David Gray
13-08-2016, 07:43 PM
I honestly don't care how we play when we win but playing like that every week is unlikely to keep 16000 people coming back every week.

We made that very difficult for ourselves and when they equalised I was honestly having flashbacks to Tuesday night, especially after missing a few chances in the first half again to make it much more comfortable.

We definitely need improvements to the squad over the next couple of weeks.

northstandhibby
13-08-2016, 07:45 PM
[QUOTE=Grumpy Auld Git;4791530]Is it not the sign of a good team when they play badly but still win ? Allthe auld guys say that anyway.

Yes, poor performance in many ways today, however......we have players - good players - to return from injury plus...two / three new faces arriving soon, win any way we can just now. The "exhibition" wins will come later.[/QUOTE

Spot on for me. A great start to the season with two wins from two games. These are must win games, every game this season must be looked at as a must win to get us back to the top league. To win today when not playing at peak is fantastic. Got to say JC has turned out to be the goal machine we had to keep in order to secure promotion. Excellent Hibernian.




Glory Glory

thebakerboy
13-08-2016, 07:58 PM
We do not need 3 CH's and a defensive mid at home , we need a back 4 and 4 in midfield whether diamond or with wide men doesnt really matter. What matters is playing to the players strengths.Thought Dylan and Squirrel changed the game when they came on and this has to be the way forward. But as I have said elsewhere we need two more strikers because Holt is not up to 3 matches in a week and would probably be better utilised as an impact or change of style player. The answer is keep Dylan fit and get Fraser fit and add 2 strikers and a mid field player and drop the 3 at the back.

familyman
13-08-2016, 08:12 PM
NL seemed happy enough on radio after game, but I thought as you did we got out of jail.The fear of a return to hoof ball seemed real enough for a while ,being direct is all very well but high balls to our smallest players!!!LB Stevenson far far too often hit poor crosses , he had so much of the ball and wasted so many opportunities again....if that gets fixed and we actually put the ball where the players will be we will get more goals. JC was very selfish more than once and had he passed the ball to other team players better placed again we could well have scored more. JC shows great bursts of speed and enthusiasm but more teamwork please.Marvin had a shocker for long spells....We were out muscled for a time in midfield.....all that said there was plenty effort but still a lack of cohesion in defence even now NL has a heck of a lot to sort out not just mentality..John McG as ever a class act , Dylan too immense in his short time on park... almost though a one man band at times..till Dylan came along.
Let's actually learn from this and avoid the similarities of the Q of S game once and for all..
come on HIbs we need convincing wins that will bring another 16000 fans, todays performance will not.cut out the long high ball, not our way.




Now don't get me wrong, it's all about the 3 points, but we got away with that one today. We need to start playing a heck of a lot better than that or we'll start to get punished. I think today has again highlighted the need for signings. Without McGeough and Fyvie in that midfield, and of course no Henderson, we badly are lacking in the creativity department.

We can't line up with Bartley and McGinn as the only recognized midfielders and rely on Gray and Stevenson for width. This needs addressed.

I don't think many of the 16k+ fans would of been too impressed today and that disappoints me. Really wish Holt had put one of his 2 golden chances away which would of made it a bit easier and bred mire confidence.

We've still given ourself a platform though with 6/6 points.

Mibbes Aye
13-08-2016, 08:13 PM
That's all well and good if you need three central defenders, but we could sacrifice one of them for a central midfielder and just play 4-4-2 and have that numerical advantage all the time.

In addition, none of our centre halves are any good at the "pushing into midfield" part. They're all good defenders, but we only need two of them playing at a time.

See what you're saying but it doesn't add up. My sense is that if we play 4-4-2, you're suggesting the midfield four have width. To counter that, the opposition would set up with 4-5-1.

Instantly they gain an extra man in the middle. That's what I mean about countering 'park the bus' - it's about the numbers in midfield but more importantly it's about what we do with the ball and how we move.

Famous Fiver
13-08-2016, 08:28 PM
Nice feeling for once that the opposition were not celebrating in front of their fans at the end of a match.

Nice also to wave them cheerio and send them away pointless.

I'll take 2-1 against what are reputed to be one of our main challengers any day of the week.

Would have loved to have seen wee hard man Higinbotham up against Eric Schaedler. He would have landed beside me and I was in Row Y!!

BH Hibs
13-08-2016, 08:29 PM
Can't believe some of the ***** on here at times. We dominated the game today took three points and people are complaining for what. Well done Hibs today on a solid win.

BSEJVT
13-08-2016, 08:34 PM
See what you're saying but it doesn't add up. My sense is that if we play 4-4-2, you're suggesting the midfield four have width. To counter that, the opposition would set up with 4-5-1.

Instantly they gain an extra man in the middle. That's what I mean about countering 'park the bus' - it's about the numbers in midfield but more importantly it's about what we do with the ball and how we move.

Whilst I don't necessarily agree with you, I see where you are coming from

Problem for me is that the player most able to break from the back is Hanlon and it was only late on that even McGregor did. This despite the fact that he is a fine defender, he isn't well suited to being asked to either bring the ball out of defence or step up into midfield and make passes.

If they aren't doing that then the opposition full backs pick up our wing wingbacks and our 3 midfielders are against 4 or maybe 5 midfielders and get overrun.

The goal today and our problems on Tuesday came from their midfield getting in behind our full backs and midfield and pulling one of the three central defenders out to tackle.

The gaps that leaves in the centre of our defence you could (and the opposition did on both days) drive a coach and horse through.

Especially since not one of our back 5 is blessed with great pace to recover.

The formation you advocate might be doable, I wouldn't want it but it maybe, but not with players currently being used in it.

You would need 3 central midfielders all able to both attack and defend and with the legs and desire to do so, and the ability to pick a pass.

You would also need Gray & Stevenson at the top of their game every week.

I also have my doubts whether either Jason or Holt, who both like playing outside the box too much for my liking, would ever be on the end of those delivery's enough to score the required number of goals.

BS44
13-08-2016, 09:23 PM
We won. I'll take wins like that every week if it means we are getting out of this division

Ringothedog
13-08-2016, 09:31 PM
Can't believe some of the ***** on here at times. We dominated the game today took three points and people are complaining for what. Well done Hibs today on a solid win.

This

hibby6270
13-08-2016, 09:40 PM
We'll not have much tougher games this season than that one today. Again we dominated for spells had more shots on goal but allowed Dunfermline too much room to play football in midfield. It's good (lucky?) their strikers weren't up to much really.

End of the day though, a win is a win and games like these were the ones we ended up drawing and occasionally losing. If we can stop that this season, we should be OK.

monktonharp
13-08-2016, 09:44 PM
Can't believe some of the ***** on here at times. We dominated the game today took three points and people are complaining for what. Well done Hibs today on a solid win.:agree: cant believe some of the negative vibes re-this game. we dominated the first half, hit the post, John Mc GINN'S first shot looked a peach all the way until the goalies fingernails touched it over. we must have had 8 corners in the first, and some looked dangerous. then, we got the first goal. second half, they got a goal with some good fitba' and looked good for 15 mins we got back into control and the subs took over. the far better team won as it should be. last season, many were saying....we must play 3 at the back. It's now all change and we are suddenly pish:rolleyes:

northstandhibby
13-08-2016, 09:49 PM
:agree: cant believe some of the negative vibes re-this game. we dominated the first half, hit the post, John Mc GINN'S first shot looked a peach all the way until the goalies fingernails touched it over. we must have had 8 corners in the first, and some looked dangerous. then, we got the first goal. second half, they got a goal with some good fitba' and looked good for 15 mins we got back into control and the subs took over. the far better team won as it should be. last season, many were saying....we must play 3 at the back. It's now all change and we are suddenly pish:rolleyes:

Totally agree with you. I think the OP was deliberately negative.



Glory Glory

NAE NOOKIE
13-08-2016, 09:51 PM
Its brilliant to start the season with 6 points and to have already opened a small gap on Dundee Utd and Falkirk who are supposed to be our main threat.

But we need to make more of our possession. We were the better team, but we needed an own goal and a bit of a fankle by a Dunfermline defender at JC's goal to get the win. I was actually quite impressed by Dunfermline, they were a better side than many of the park the bus outfits who visited ER last season and at 1 -1 there was a worry that they had enough quality about them to get a 2nd goal ... they will do OK this season playing like that.

We were considerably better when McGeouch came on and the sooner he is fit enough to play 90 minutes the better .... we deserved the win today, but we can play better ... when Fyvie is back he and McGeouch will take the pressure off McGinn, who was excellent today.

We have beaten two of our main rivals playing quite a bit below the standard we all know we are capable of and that can only be a positive ... with a few additions and Fyvie and McGeouch fit we can and will get better.

monktonharp
13-08-2016, 10:01 PM
we will get better. the new manager will make us better,I am sure of that.he managed to stretch the game, after 80 mins, to make sure the points were ours. the Pars ran out of steam when we hit the front, although they had some good spells in the second half. best team won

Finn2015
13-08-2016, 10:28 PM
No it wasn't good enough but I think we will get better with returning players such as Fyvie and Mcgeouch and hopefully a signing or two. We ground out a result today when not playing well. Isn't that the sign of champions? Let's hope it's the case for us

tmb1875
13-08-2016, 11:00 PM
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160813/3e5794dd44f9907473e537e2d36a26f0.jpg

No luck in the stats. We were good enough because we won.

We're never happy. If it's a choice of results or performance, for this season I choose results. The performance will come, I'm sure of it

Correct! Completely agree. We were unlucky not to score more, missing key players, manager & team still to gel so not concerned with scrappy wins. Performances will come in next few weeks once we have settled first 11 with all our starters back, in the mean time ill take 3 points every week.


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Ozyhibby
13-08-2016, 11:40 PM
I actually thought the performance wasn't too bad except for a horrible 20 min period in the second half. Again it's just a case of taking chances. We should really have been 2/3 nil up at half time.
Lack of goals is what hurt us last season and we need to fix it over the next couple of weeks.


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blackpoolhibs
13-08-2016, 11:49 PM
That was a lucky 3 points today, jesus christ they scored one of the goals and a Colin Murdochesch mistake at the end for Cummins to score gave us the win.

For 15 minutes at the end of the first half we played well, but the rest of the time we were pish until we made the two subs of Boyle and McGeouch.

That defense looks a shamble when someone runs at them, and take cummings out the team and we just wont score any goals.

Pace and width, and ffs let stevenson and gray just defend.

Tamhere1875
13-08-2016, 11:54 PM
I'll take results like that every week.Teams aim is to get out of this league be it playing like they did today or by playing pretty football 3 points that's all that matters

JohnM1875
13-08-2016, 11:59 PM
Don't get the thread title. We got three points. So the performance was good enough! We're not Real, Barca or Arsenal. It isn't always going to be pretty. But ALL that matters is three points when going for promotion.

Wee Effen Bee
14-08-2016, 12:20 AM
Have all you expert tacticians, and obviously great managers, ever thought about phoning Neil up and telling him: how to set our team up, what tactics to adopt and which players to use? I'm sure he would be very happy to hear from hugely experienced coaches who have managed at the highest level. :greengrin
'3 points but not good enough?' Really? Tell you what then, I'm fkng furious that Hibs only beat the Huns by one goal in May! I wanted us to score 5 at least.
One thing about Hibs.net that amazes me is the amount of people who can tell the future: '...we will lose games if we continue to play like that, etc. etc.' How the hell can you say that? We didn't play particularly well for 90 minutes but: dominated possession for the majority of the match; had more shots on goal/shots on target' restricted the opposition to a couple of chances and scored more than the other team. We played in a similar vein at Falkirk...and we won that one as well! How many games against Hertz and Rangers did we play better than them but ended up losing/drawing? They didn't smash every team they played but they ground out win after win. None of their supporters look back and say they are unhappy as their team didn't play like Barcelona every week.mThey will just be glad they are in the premiership!
McGeouch returned today, a class act! Fyvie still to come back in and another two signings to be announced. Why all the negativity? Two games, two wins, 6 points. That is what I'm looking for this year - winning games By any fashion and marching back into the top league. :agree:

bubblesmorrison
14-08-2016, 01:10 AM
So the real question is would you rather play crap and win or play well and lose? At the end of the day if we win every game and play crap this season it will be a successful season.

Wee Effen Bee
14-08-2016, 01:20 AM
So the real question is would you rather play crap and win or play well and lose? At the end of the day if we win every game and play crap this season it will be a successful season.

:agree: I agree bubblesm. Although I love watching Hibs play free-flowing and incisive football, I would take 3 points every week playing the way we did today. I've had enough of this league and want us back up where we belong.

California-Hibs
14-08-2016, 01:20 AM
The point you're missing is we won't get three points every week if the performances are like that. No one is asking for Barca performances.

This is it. The whole point of this thread is being lost on some people. Look, no one is happier than me that we got the 3 points, its what it's all about and it's what we achieved. However this is a message board and people are quite right to discuss the general performance in any manor they please.

People are being quick to brush off the idea of any negatives but it's getting the negatives out there that will in then turn into positives.

Anyone who says that it's not an issue to play like we did today because we got 3 points and always will, frankly has their heads in the sand.

Today we got the points playing very average/largely poor in parts. Great, points are all that matter and I'm delighted! However this won't always be the case and at times performances like today will see us punished. There's nothing wrong with saying this folks!!

I'm still convinced we'll skoosh this league, however we are in need of a bit better quality to turn knife edge games like today into convincing victories.

California-Hibs
14-08-2016, 01:24 AM
Is it not the sign of a good team when they play badly but still win ? All the auld guys say that anyway.

Yes, poor performance in many ways today, however......we have players - good players - to return from injury plus...two / three new faces arriving soon, win any way we can just now. The "exhibition" wins will come later.

I do completely agree with this. Add McGeough & Fyfie back into the starting 11 and then we're talking. Throw Andrew Shinnie in there too and we're laughing.

Hopefully we see a bit of movement this week.

Kiddo
14-08-2016, 04:44 AM
When we play 3 at the back there's no need for a sitting centre mid. 352 with a midfield of McGinn mcgeouch and Keatings will make us a lot more comfortable in games

GreenNWhiteArmy
14-08-2016, 10:31 AM
I don't get this whole "we weren't good enough" chat?

First of all I'll start by saying 3 at the back is wrong at home with Mcginn and Bartley in the middle. I don't think we need so many defence cover on the park and the midfield combo doesn't work.

On the whole though, at no point did I think the 3 points were ever in doubt. I had a few disagreements wi guys around. Cummings is ****, bring back Stubbs all this nonsense but I felt we were for the most part in control of the game without putting it to bed? Granted that's been an issue for a couple of years but how many shots were we having from outside the box? Something that we've not seen a lot of. Mcginn had a couple of cracking efforts as did Jase.

Their keeper made a few good saves, some clearances of the line and a couple of bad misses. On the whole I felt we played ok with room for improvement but certainly hadn't changed my opinion that we will be too strong for the majority of teams in this division.

2 games - 6 points and on to St Mirren next week

Eyrie
14-08-2016, 11:45 AM
So the real question is would you rather play crap and win or play well and lose? At the end of the day if we win every game and play crap this season it will be a successful season.

Promotion is all that counts this season but sadly if we play like that every week we'll draw as many as we win.

I would also prefer to enjoy attending a game rather than worrying about whether we can hold onto a one goal lead.

Wee Effen Bee
14-08-2016, 12:13 PM
This is it. The whole point of this thread is being lost on some people. Look, no one is happier than me that we got the 3 points, its what it's all about and it's what we achieved. However this is a message board and people are quite right to discuss the general performance in any manor they please.

People are being quick to brush off the idea of any negatives but it's getting the negatives out there that will in then turn into positives.

Anyone who says that it's not an issue to play like we did today because we got 3 points and always will, frankly has their heads in the sand.

Today we got the points playing very average/largely poor in parts. Great, points are all that matter and I'm delighted! However this won't always be the case and at times performances like today will see us punished. There's nothing wrong with saying this folks!!

I'm still convinced we'll skoosh this league, however we are in need of a bit better quality to turn knife edge games like today into convincing victories.

You're absolutely correct Cali: you can post threads/opinions which highlight the negative outlook of Hibs" performances. BUT! Others then can use that same freedom to tell you, in their opinion, why you are wrong or why we can view things more positively. We all get it, we didn't play as well as we can and we might lose if we continue to play that way. I certainly understand your, and others', argument but Your patronising, 'stick our heads in the sand' comment suggests we just say or type stuff without actually thinking it through. A Wee bit arrogant is it not?
Well, we might losebut, just as equally and just as pertinent, we might not! We might even play better and lose. That is an equally valid point. As for your last point you just threw in: you are now arguing for a more convincing victory (rather than one like yesterday) as opposed to your original argument of we can't always expect to win playing the way we did. Again, my point still stands, I don't give a toss how we win this season, as long as we win.

blackpoolhibs
14-08-2016, 12:23 PM
I think we'd all be perfectly happy to play like we did yesterday and win every week, but the likelihood of that is very slim.

Nowt wrong in looking to see where we all think improvement could and even should be made.

cabbageandribs1875
14-08-2016, 12:32 PM
NL seemed happy enough on radio after game, but I thought as you did we got out of jail.The fear of a return to hoof ball seemed real enough for a while ,being direct is all very well but high balls to our smallest players!!!LB Stevenson far far too often hit poor crosses , he had so much of the ball and wasted so many opportunities again....if that gets fixed and we actually put the ball where the players will be we will get more goals. JC was very selfish more than once and had he passed the ball to other team players better placed again we could well have scored more. JC shows great bursts of speed and enthusiasm but more teamwork please.Marvin had a shocker for long spells....We were out muscled for a time in midfield.....all that said there was plenty effort but still a lack of cohesion in defence even now NL has a heck of a lot to sort out not just mentality..John McG as ever a class act , Dylan too immense in his short time on park... almost though a one man band at times..till Dylan came along.
Let's actually learn from this and avoid the similarities of the Q of S game once and for all..
come on HIbs we need convincing wins that will bring another 16000 fans, todays performance will not.cut out the long high ball, not our way.


all the bits in bold :agree:

Wee Effen Bee
14-08-2016, 12:36 PM
I think we'd all be perfectly happy to play like we did yesterday and win every week, but the likelihood of that is very slim.

Nowt wrong in looking to see where we all think improvement could and even should be made.
Totally agree BH but the suggestion that people who view it differently are ignoring the performances is patronising at best. I would be perfectly happy to play even worse than yesterday and still win but I would still prefer to win in an more entertaining way. As I've said already, don't care if we are on fire or just 'sparking,' this season...as long as we are promoted!

blackpoolhibs
14-08-2016, 12:46 PM
Totally agree BH but the suggestion that people who view it differently are ignoring the performances is patronising at best. I would be perfectly happy to play even worse than yesterday and still win but I would still prefer to win in an more entertaining way. As I've said already, don't care if we are on fire or just 'sparking,' this season...as long as we are promoted!

I agree about just let us keep winning, and as you say it would be better if it was more entertaining. :agree:

Yesterdays crowd was good, but with the best will in the world, if you went along yesterday looking to be entertained and looking for a reason to go back regularly, then in my opinion they would have gone home disappointed.

We wont or even cant play exciting expansive football every week, but it was dire in my opinion apart from a 20 minute spell in the first half.

Yet we won and another win next week would really put down a marker, plus hopefully more signings to bolster the squad but hopefully the team.

Just keep winning Hibs. :greengrin

Scouse Hibee
14-08-2016, 12:50 PM
We were extremely fortunate to get three points yesterday, both of our goals were as a result of defensive mistakes. To suggest we could play like that every week as long as we get the result is ignoring the fact how fortunate we were. If we play like that every week we won't get the results we need and will be in trouble. So yes six out of six points is excellent but we need improve and either change the system or use the right players in that system. The last two games have proved that the starting eleven is not ideal.

hibs0666
14-08-2016, 12:50 PM
The performance was good enough because we got the points. Could have been better aesthetically.

Wee Effen Bee
14-08-2016, 12:51 PM
I agree about just let us keep winning, and as you say it would be better if it was more entertaining. :agree:

Yesterdays crowd was good, but with the best will in the world, if you went along yesterday looking to be entertained and looking for a reason to go back regularly, then in my opinion they would have gone home disappointed.

We wont or even cant play exciting expansive football every week, but it was dire in my opinion apart from a 20 minute spell in the first half.

Yet we won and another win next week would really put down a marker, plus hopefully more signings to bolster the squad but hopefully the team.

Just keep winning Hibs. :greengrin

The really important factor this season.:agree: I'm not sure if crowds flock to see a winning team or an entertaining team BH. I think we may find out as the season progresses.:greengrin

MB62
14-08-2016, 12:58 PM
I don't think we are giving enough credit to Dunfermline and how they played. They are a very well organised outfit and not a bad side at all. Apart from McGinn, who was miles ahead of everyone else on the park, I thought their number 16 (McCabe) ? had a great game, hit plenty very passes with both feet, took nearly all their free kicks and was all over the park. IMO, I think he is worth following in the next couple of games and if he produces that sort of form regularly, See what his availability is.

As for us, I don't think we were as bad as most are suggesting. There was a good deal of frustration after the equalized, but what a good goal it was. Jason Cummings started to shoot from everywhere, trying to win the game on his own, but when he is playing alongside Dagnall mk11 then maybe he feels he has to (as it turns out, he did) :thumbsup:
Definitely new signings required, midfielder and striker as a bare minimum, but 6 from 6 from two very tough games will do nicely for me.
This is going to be a tough league this season, and wins, regardless of how they are achieved, are vital.

fulshie
14-08-2016, 01:05 PM
Now don't get me wrong, it's all about the 3 points, but we got away with that one today. We need to start playing a heck of a lot better than that or we'll start to get punished. I think today has again highlighted the need for signings. Without McGeough and Fyvie in that midfield, and of course no Henderson, we badly are lacking in the creativity department.

We can't line up with Bartley and McGinn as the only recognized midfielders and rely on Gray and Stevenson for width. This needs addressed.

I don't think many of the 16k+ fans would of been too impressed today and that disappoints me. Really wish Holt had put one of his 2 golden chances away which would of made it a bit easier and bred mire confidence.

We've still given ourself a platform though with 6/6 points. I agree :agree: but, am not to sure about Holt. Hopefully He'll come good and start getting his goals.

Mibbes Aye
14-08-2016, 01:40 PM
Whilst I don't necessarily agree with you, I see where you are coming from

Problem for me is that the player most able to break from the back is Hanlon and it was only late on that even McGregor did. This despite the fact that he is a fine defender, he isn't well suited to being asked to either bring the ball out of defence or step up into midfield and make passes.

If they aren't doing that then the opposition full backs pick up our wing wingbacks and our 3 midfielders are against 4 or maybe 5 midfielders and get overrun.

The goal today and our problems on Tuesday came from their midfield getting in behind our full backs and midfield and pulling one of the three central defenders out to tackle.

The gaps that leaves in the centre of our defence you could (and the opposition did on both days) drive a coach and horse through.

Especially since not one of our back 5 is blessed with great pace to recover.

The formation you advocate might be doable, I wouldn't want it but it maybe, but not with players currently being used in it.

You would need 3 central midfielders all able to both attack and defend and with the legs and desire to do so, and the ability to pick a pass.

You would also need Gray & Stevenson at the top of their game every week.

I also have my doubts whether either Jason or Holt, who both like playing outside the box too much for my liking, would ever be on the end of those delivery's enough to score the required number of goals.

Good post.

It's not my choice of formation personally, but I can see why we would use it.

I agree about how much it asks of Gray and Stevenson, I think that's unfortunate but in a way they've brought it on themselves by having such a consistently high work-rate :greengrin

Agree with you that ideally Hanlon should be pushing up and out in that line-up. If he (or one of the three) doesn't, then it negates the whole point of the system.

Re your point about forwards outside the box, it begs the question whether they feel they have to drop back or wide to receive the ball? The upside is that their movement pulls the opposition defence about but there's obviously an argument that sitting in the middle ties up at least one opponent, thus creating more space elsewhere.

Re the central three in midfield, I don't think it needs three players able to defend - Fyvie should be enough (when fit), alongside McGinn and McGeouch (when fit!)

Mibbes Aye
14-08-2016, 01:44 PM
I don't think we are giving enough credit to Dunfermline and how they played. They are a very well organised outfit and not a bad side at all. Apart from McGinn, who was miles ahead of everyone else on the park, I thought their number 16 (McCabe) ? had a great game, hit plenty very passes with both feet, took nearly all their free kicks and was all over the park. IMO, I think he is worth following in the next couple of games and if he produces that sort of form regularly, See what his availability is.

As for us, I don't think we were as bad as most are suggesting. There was a good deal of frustration after the equalized, but what a good goal it was. Jason Cummings started to shoot from everywhere, trying to win the game on his own, but when he is playing alongside Dagnall mk11 then maybe he feels he has to (as it turns out, he did) :thumbsup:
Definitely new signings required, midfielder and striker as a bare minimum, but 6 from 6 from two very tough games will do nicely for me.
This is going to be a tough league this season, and wins, regardless of how they are achieved, are vital.

Invariably the case when Hibs' performance is being scrutinised - they're not Barca but they're not exactly mugs either and are quite capable of setting up to beat us. Can't take anything for granted in this league, every win will require effort, performance and sometimes just luck.

MyJo
14-08-2016, 01:59 PM
The 3-5-2 formation (or was it 3-4-3?) isnt the right formation for us week in, week out. It works well against better teams who will put us under a lot of pressure but for most games in this league we should be 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 and looking to put teams to the sword.

I worry about Laidlaw in goal, doesn't seem to command his area or communicate well with his defenders and his decision making seems awful, hanging onto balls instead of releasing it quickly to counter attack and there as a bit where Gray was standing with his arms in the air calling for the ball for ages only for the keeper to punt it and lose possession putting us under immediate pressure agan. Bartley seemed a yard or two off the pace, not his usual commanding-self and Holt was very dissappointing

On the plus side we got the result, thats the type of game we would have ended up losing last season. Lennon changed it up when it was needed and got us the result, McGinn & Hanlon were immense and McGeoch's through ball for the goal was a thing of beauty.

MWHIBBIES
14-08-2016, 02:06 PM
I don't think we are giving enough credit to Dunfermline and how they played. They are a very well organised outfit and not a bad side at all. Apart from McGinn, who was miles ahead of everyone else on the park, I thought their number 16 (McCabe) ? had a great game, hit plenty very passes with both feet, took nearly all their free kicks and was all over the park. IMO, I think he is worth following in the next couple of games and if he produces that sort of form regularly, See what his availability is.

As for us, I don't think we were as bad as most are suggesting. There was a good deal of frustration after the equalized, but what a good goal it was. Jason Cummings started to shoot from everywhere, trying to win the game on his own, but when he is playing alongside Dagnall mk11 then maybe he feels he has to (as it turns out, he did) http://www.hibs.net/images/smilies/thumbs%20up.gif
Definitely new signings required, midfielder and striker as a bare minimum, but 6 from 6 from two very tough games will do nicely for me.
This is going to be a tough league this season, and wins, regardless of how they are achieved, are vital.McCabe trialed here last season.

21.05.2016
14-08-2016, 02:27 PM
I get what your saying but end of the day 3 points is all that matters in the end. You don't get points for just playing well. I'd rather we didn't play great but picked up 3points than played like Real Madrid and got beat. Obviously it would be great to play great football every week and be hammering teams week in week out but as I said, 3 points is the main thing.

Thats how you win leagues, winning even when you dont play great. Some weeks the win will be comfertably, other weeks it will have to be ground out.

The Leith Dutch
14-08-2016, 05:37 PM
We do not need 3 CH's and a defensive mid at home

Agree with where you're coming from.
If however we were to play two proper wingers as opposed to wing backs then I would play 3 at the back and a proper attacking 3-5-2.

The Leith Dutch
14-08-2016, 05:45 PM
Can't believe some of the ***** on here at times. We dominated the game today took three points and people are complaining for what. Well done Hibs today on a solid win.

I actually think it's been fairly well balanced with people acknowledging that we played well and that 2 wins from 2 against a couple of the trickier sides is an excellent start.

The worry I think folk including myself have is that we dominated games in a similar style last season but shipped points due to not scoring enough despite dominating play. I think that's fair game for debate on a forum.

I reckon the folk that are raising these issues are delighted with the points return from these two games and I'm sure the folk that are critical of them raising these issues would be equally delighted if we turned more of these dominating performances into 4 and 5 goal thrashings :)

The Leith Dutch
14-08-2016, 05:53 PM
So the real question is would you rather play crap and win or play well and lose? At the end of the day if we win every game and play crap this season it will be a successful season.

Within the terms you've laid out of course it's play crap and win :)

I'd say there were more options:
I think we can - and should - win, score more and play well is all :greengrin
And I value it in that order because the first two actually count statistically towards us going up.

ancient hibee
14-08-2016, 06:09 PM
Some are saying we were unlucky not to score more.Don't agree,the only unlucky moment was Cummings good effort off the post.In my opinion it's not unlucky not to score off five excellent corners in a row just begging to be put in and it's certainly not unlucky to fail to trouble the goalie with the ball at your feet a few yards from goal.Last season we didn't score enough goals.If we continue the same way we'll end up with the same outcome.

snedzuk
14-08-2016, 06:15 PM
McCabe trialed here last season.

I also thought he was quite impressive but he also reminded me a lot of Dan Carmichael

Stevie Reid
15-08-2016, 08:44 AM
Some are saying we were unlucky not to score more.Don't agree,the only unlucky moment was Cummings good effort off the post.In my opinion it's not unlucky not to score off five excellent corners in a row just begging to be put in and it's certainly not unlucky to fail to trouble the goalie with the ball at your feet a few yards from goal.Last season we didn't score enough goals.If we continue the same way we'll end up with the same outcome.

Hang on - but the folk saying that we were somehow lucky to win are right?

Folk on here need to seriously assess their definition of luck - you are absolutely correct that we were by no means unlucky not to score more, simply bad finishing on our part (Cummings' good header aside). But at the other side, Dunfermline's bad defending is their problem, and their mistakes came as a result of attacking pressure from us.

When analysed in the cold light of day, Saturday was a comfortable win. Better than Dunfermline in every way, our goalkeeper rarely troubled, and we were on the front foot and creating chances regularly enough to eventually generate the two goals. Job done.

Finn2015
15-08-2016, 09:21 AM
Hang on - but the folk saying that we were somehow lucky to win are right?

Folk on here need to seriously assess their definition of luck - you are absolutely correct that we were by no means unlucky not to score more, simply bad finishing on our part (Cummings' good header aside). But at the other side, Dunfermline's bad defending is their problem, and their mistakes came as a result of attacking pressure from us.

When analysed in the cold light of day, Saturday was a comfortable win. Better than Dunfermline in every way, our goalkeeper rarely troubled, and we were on the front foot and creating chances regularly enough to eventually generate the two goals. Job done.

And a pleasing aspect is that it's two out of two and I don't think we are seeing a side at its best yet. Players due to come back, hopefully some more additions and our best form to come

Gatecrasher
15-08-2016, 09:46 AM
I think we look very nervy in Defence, when Dunfermline and QOTS ran at us on the break we struggled to cope and this is very concerning for me going forward. We still don't take our chances, Holt and Cummings both missed very good opportunities to put the game to bed. The 2 goals we actually got came from gifts given to us which wont happen every week. We aren't dominating the Midfield as well as we did last season, I think we are missing Henderson a bit. Lennon needs to get a few players in so he can change the game from the bench, The Boyle sub on Saturday was a good one but he doesn't always produce.

It's good 3 points I don't think anyone is denying that but I won't be happy if we played like that every week and we won't win every week playing like that either.

Stevie Reid
15-08-2016, 10:33 AM
Lennon needs to get a few players in so he can change the game from the bench, The Boyle sub on Saturday was a good one but he doesn't always produce.

Both McGeough and Boyle came on on Saturday, we changed our shape, and both were heavily involved in the winning goal. I don't think changing the game from the bench can be more profound than that, really. I agree we need a couple more in, but that will inevitably happen.

HappyHanlon
15-08-2016, 11:35 AM
Moan when we lose
Moan when we win

That was the kind of match we wouldn't have won last season. A win is a win, even if it's ugly.

How dare we get 6pts from first two league games. Scoundrels.

H18 SFR
15-08-2016, 12:01 PM
After the game ended I maybe agreed with the OP. After hearing Lennon in radio Scotland putting some perspective re the fact it was only a dodgy 10 min spell. I've just watched the game again, we played really well, lots of chances, good defending and the daft 10 min spell was exactly that. Overall a really good day.

Ell_Chrisso
15-08-2016, 12:14 PM
The only problem was playing with 3 at the back. We needed an extra player to look for the ball in midfield and McGeouch provided that when he came on.

I like the 3-5-2. But there's certain games it doesn't suit. I just hope Lennon can figure these things out quicker next time

Stevie Reid
15-08-2016, 12:25 PM
After the game ended I maybe agreed with the OP. After hearing Lennon in radio Scotland putting some perspective re the fact it was only a dodgy 10 min spell. I've just watched the game again, we played really well, lots of chances, good defending and the daft 10 min spell was exactly that. Overall a really good day.

Absolutely. Football games to and fro, and this is the case at every level of football - it's not very realistic to expect our manager to respond to changes during the game, but the opposition one not to be able to do the same.

We started off in control of the game, built up momentum as the half went on, scored, and played well until half time and had several good chances. Start of the second half was ok, but then Dunfermline responded to the way the game was going and had a spell of their own, during which they scored. In response to that, Lennon makes the two subs (both of whom made a profound impact), we changed shape, we score, we're rarely troubled again, and we win the game.

Decent performance, good management, and a very good win. Not much to be negative about really.

Dom'sFirstTouch
15-08-2016, 08:24 PM
It was an ok performance and we deserved to win, albeit there was an element of fortune in both our goals. I'm very confident with McGeouch, Fyvie, new Goalie and a couple of signings we'll be in good shape.