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Gatecrasher
09-08-2016, 12:16 PM
an upcoming series from the BBC (who are doing a great job promoting our game as per)

Starring several of the main culprits Graeme Souness, Fergus McCann, Terry Butcher, Sir Tom Devine and others.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37021716

Jones28
09-08-2016, 12:18 PM
To be fair, it's not called the decline of Scottish football is it?

Gatecrasher
09-08-2016, 12:21 PM
To be fair, it's not called the decline of Scottish football is it?

No but it pretty much says that in the info below

A new four-part television series looks back at the past 30 years of Scottish football and examines how the success and standard of Scotland's game has declined

lapsedhibee
09-08-2016, 12:24 PM
No but it pretty much says that in the info below

Correct timescale chosen in that I can think, offhand, of only one or two moments in that whole period quite as good as what happened in spring 1986.

Spike Mandela
09-08-2016, 12:29 PM
It declined because the now dead Rangers started overspending and started cheating. Won't merit discussion on this BBC pile of ***** though will it

Won't be setting the Sky planner for this one.:cb

greenginger
09-08-2016, 12:33 PM
Correct timescale chosen in that I can think, offhand, of only one or two moments in that whole period quite as good as what happened in spring 1986.


9th August 1986 was pretty enjoyable too !


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cj5CmjB9LaE

Alfred E Newman
09-08-2016, 12:34 PM
It depends what you class as decline.
If the Scottish game is being compared to the EPL and Championship where clubs are awash with Sky money and buying players for £100m then yes we are miles behind that and that includes Celtic.
However if you take attendances per head of population Scotland is still right up there. The quality might not be the same as the top leagues in Europe but as long as the entertainment is good who cares?
How can the game be declining when Rangers , Celtic and Hearts are almost filling their grounds each week and our wee club's attendances are set to reach levels we could only have dreamt about a couple of seasons ago.

DarrenSQH
09-08-2016, 12:40 PM
2016 so far has been the best year of scottish football I have ever seen.

Finn2015
09-08-2016, 12:45 PM
It's been awful to see over the past few years and I just pray that we will see eventually a gradual improvement. So many factors have contributed to this decline and it is a shame to see a nation so in love with football to be so generally bad at it

Diclonius
09-08-2016, 12:51 PM
In the five years since Rangers' financial troubles began we have seen eight non-Old Firm winners of the domestic cup competitions, with Celtic only winning each cup once.

Shut the **** up BBC and the rest of the media - just because your beloved Old Firm aren't winning everything with semi-ok players on inflated wages doesn't mean Scottish football is dead. It's been great without the duopoly so stop ****ing whinging and try and big it up for once.

Gatecrasher
09-08-2016, 12:56 PM
In the five years since Rangers' financial troubles began we have seen eight non-Old Firm winners of the domestic cup competition, with Celtic only winning each cup once.

Shut the **** up BBC and the rest of the media - just because your beloved Old Firm aren't winning everything with semi-ok players on inflated wages doesn't mean Scottish football is dead. It's been great without the duopoly so stop ****ing whinging and try and big it up for once.

The last few years have been really interesting :agree:

Mikey
09-08-2016, 01:02 PM
The amount of money that Sky and BT put into English football is our biggest problem.

Diclonius
09-08-2016, 01:03 PM
The last few years have been really interesting :agree:

Yup. If you can't be bothered watching the series then I'll just put in writing what the BBC/media consider to be this "decline":

2011/12:
Falkirk 3-2 Rangers, League Cup 3rd Round
Rangers 0-2 Dundee Utd, Scottish Cup 5th Round

2012/13:
Rangers 0-3 Inverness, League Cup Quarter Final
Dundee Utd 3-0 Rangers, Scottish Cup 5th Round

2013/14:
Forfar 2-1 Rangers, League Cup 1st Round
Rangers 1-3 Dundee Utd, Scottish Cup Semi Final

2014/15*:
Rangers 1-2 Raith Rovers, Scottish Cup 5th Round

2015/16:
Rangers 1-3 St Johnstone, League Cup 3rd Round
Rangers 2-3 Hibernian, Scottish Cup Final

* One loss v Celtic removed as this is the one game the media is truly impartial.

NAE NOOKIE
09-08-2016, 01:04 PM
It depends what you class as decline.
If the Scottish game is being compared to the EPL and Championship where clubs are awash with Sky money and buying players for £100m then yes we are miles behind that and that includes Celtic.
However if you take attendances per head of population Scotland is still right up there. The quality might not be the same as the top leagues in Europe but as long as the entertainment is good who cares?
How can the game be declining when Rangers , Celtic and Hearts are almost filling their grounds each week and our wee club's attendances are set to reach levels we could only have dreamt about a couple of seasons ago.

This

Also .... Its easy to stick together articles and TV programmes going on and on and on about how bad our game is compared to 30 years ago ... I would be more interested to hear from the people with ideas about how to improve things and with a perspective based in reality. Decades ago Scottish football was punching well above its weight at times ... we need to find out how to make the game attractive to todays folk in todays environment, with realistic ideas, not based on some ridiculous notion that our clubs should be knocking at the door of European competitions quarter finals.

As MB alludes to, it doesn't matter a toss if the players you are watching are on hundreds of thousands a week or two thousand a week ... the games can still be entertaining and that is what we need to aim at ...... and as I've bored everybody with a million times before, get something done with the facilities .. half the grounds in the two top leagues are a shambles and if the political will could be found to find hundreds of millions to put on a load of sports over only two weeks that 90% of folk in Scotland wouldn't open the curtains to watch if they were being played in the back garden I fail to see why anybody should be embarrassed about football trying to get a similar amount of money from the same sources to upgrade the facilities in what is supposed to be our national sport that thousands of folk attend every week.

And don't give me any tosh about football being a professional sport so its different either ..... half of the athletes in the commonwealth games make the sort of money that would make your average Scottish fitba player wet himself with excitement if he was offered it.

Diclonius
09-08-2016, 01:06 PM
This

Also .... Its easy to stick together articles and TV programmes going on and on and on about how bad our game is compared to 30 years ago ... I would be more interested to hear from the people with ideas about how to improve things and with a perspective based in reality. Decades ago Scottish football was punching well above its weight at times ... we need to find out how to make the game attractive to todays folk in todays environment, with realistic ideas, not based on some ridiculous notion that our clubs should be knocking at the door of European competitions quarter finals.

It is impossible to suggest changes to the Scottish game as all the pundits know that the only real alternative (make the top division bigger) would only guarantee us two OF games a season, and while this is in the interest of the many it is not for the privileged few.

steakbake
09-08-2016, 01:07 PM
Will it cover the Setanta and Sky Sport years (EBTs and the rest of it) on which the future of Scottish future was gambled on the financial doping of a poisonous duopoly?

Will Souness reveal to the watching public why he received an EBT when he wasn't working for Rangers?

Weststandwanab
09-08-2016, 01:09 PM
The amount of money that Sky and BT put into English football is our biggest problem.

Indeed it is yet still vast numbers of people in Scotland pay both these companies who in turn invest in football outside this country.

Vote with your wallets and eyes.

Bostonhibby
09-08-2016, 01:14 PM
The amount of money that Sky and BT put into English football is our biggest problem.
Agree, worse when you consider the amount of money Scotland pours into SKY and BT to enable them to spend on English football.

Bostonhibby
09-08-2016, 01:16 PM
Indeed it is yet still vast numbers of people in Scotland pay both these companies who in turn invest in football outside this country.

Vote with your wallets and eyes.
[emoji106] simple isn't it?

Sometimes turkeys do vote for Xmas.

number9dream
09-08-2016, 01:16 PM
If they are picking up where Only A Game left off, then it's hard to argue against the main theme being decline...
Look at the national team.
Look at our clubs' standing in Europe.
Hopefully it won't all be about the ugly sisters but the Rangers story of the past few years could easily fill a mini series of its own!

lord bunberry
09-08-2016, 01:20 PM
2016 so far has been the best year of scottish football I have ever seen.
:agree:. I can't wait to get to games theses days. I couldn't give a flying **** how our game is perceived outside this country! All I care about is going to hibs games and us winning those games. It's the west coast media that constantly run our game down and try to compare it the English football. Let them get on with it and leave enjoying going to the football for the rest of us. I won't be watching it.

Bostonhibby
09-08-2016, 01:21 PM
If they are picking up where Only A Game left off, then it's hard to argue against the main theme being decline...
Look at the national team.
Look at our clubs' standing in Europe.
Hopefully it won't all be about the ugly sisters but the Rangers story of the past few years could easily fill a mini series of its own!
Very likely to be the launch of BBC 's campaign to help rebrand the the rangers as a positive. Look at the rather backward looking pundits involved and where their loyalty might lie

Septimus
09-08-2016, 01:25 PM
The real decline is in the grass roots. The amateur, juvenile and junior teams for which I was signed no longer exist. Boys used to do nothing but kick a ball but there are other things to do now.

Danderhall Hibs
09-08-2016, 01:27 PM
Do you think they'll cover the decline of "only an excuse" as well?

hibbytam
09-08-2016, 01:28 PM
The amount of money that Sky and BT put into English football is our biggest problem.

I disagree, I think the authorities in Scottish football are our biggest problem. They constantly undersell our game, and blatantly have the priorities of two clubs over the rest. And are without the hint of an original idea. The naming of the league we're in is enough to show that.
The tv money is a challenge, but with the right management it could be used as an oppotunity, if correctly managed.

also

A new four-part television series looks back at the past 30 years of Scottish football and examines how the success and standard of Scotland's game has declined.

Featuring ... Terry Butcher
F that.

jgl07
09-08-2016, 01:28 PM
The decline may help to bring about a partial solution. There has been duopoly that has existed the past 100 years with odd breaks such as the late 1940s and early 1950s, the early to late 1960s, and the early to mid 1980s. Even worse there was a monopoly for the mid 1990s and the last five seasons.

This has ultimately led to decline in UEFA coefficient resulting in less European cash coming in and the TV companies not paying up. This will hit the dastardly duo more than any others as they got the bulk of it to start with.

It wasn't that long ago that both Rangers and Celtic could regularly make the group stages of the CL. It is rare to have one of them there now.

This has reflected in other teams getting a look in at the Scottish Cupand the League Cup. Celtic's crowds have fallen badly, so will Rangers' once the novelty wears off. Both have bloated infrastructures which cost a lot of money to sustain. Both have second rate managers.

There is hope.

Hibernian Verse
09-08-2016, 01:28 PM
Indeed it is yet still vast numbers of people in Scotland pay both these companies who in turn invest in football outside this country.

Vote with your wallets and eyes.

Whilst I understand your point, I have to disagree. I pay for Sky and BT Sports and their coverage is excellent. I'm not going to give that up as some sort of single person protest against capitalism.

Rugy07
09-08-2016, 01:30 PM
I live in England and subscribe to Sky to watch Scottish football. I agree it's a poor deal compared to what they pay the EPL, but Sky give a lot of money to Scottish football as well.

Diclonius
09-08-2016, 01:54 PM
Do you think they'll cover the decline of "only an excuse" as well?

That would imply Only an Excuse had a peak.

heid the baw
09-08-2016, 01:58 PM
Scottish football is in serious decline. Our champions lose to a team from Gibraltar. 3rd place go out to a team from Malta.
No qualification for a major international tournament in 28 year.
Look at Iceland, Wales ect. Scottish football is gash

Onion
09-08-2016, 02:00 PM
No but it pretty much says that in the info below

Not so much of a decline, as in a false position based on sectarianism, tax fraud, corruption and spending money that did not exist. Scottish football is simply starting to find its natural level.

Johnny_Leith
09-08-2016, 02:05 PM
The game is marketed so badly up here it's really ridiculous. It needs a total overhaul and the constant reliance on the same pundits who the next generation of fans have never seen play is frankly daft.

Dinosaurs like Butcher, Souness, etc shouldn't be allowed near our game and Doncaster and co all need punted too!

southsider
09-08-2016, 02:09 PM
The real decline is in the grass roots. The amateur, juvenile and junior teams for which I was signed no longer exist. Boys used to do nothing but kick a ball but there are other things to do now.

I walked throw the meadows on Sunday. Not one game of fitba being played. When I was young there was a game on every spare blade of grass. 3 cricket games mind. Wtf ?

Weststandwanab
09-08-2016, 02:10 PM
Whilst I understand your point, I have to disagree. I pay for Sky and BT Sports and their coverage is excellent. I'm not going to give that up as some sort of single person protest against capitalism.

That of course is your prerogative. If Scotland as one switched of Sky they would be throwing money at the game here.

Bostonhibby
09-08-2016, 02:15 PM
That of course is your prerogative. If Scotland as one switched of Sky they would be throwing money at the game here.
The collective power of a number of like minded people to influence where BT and SKY direct the money they currently spend outside Scotland. It'll never catch on[emoji6] .

GreenLake
09-08-2016, 02:25 PM
Indeed it is yet still vast numbers of people in Scotland pay both these companies who in turn invest in football outside this country.

Vote with your wallets and eyes.

It is a vast number but in reality there are vast numbers in almost every part of the globe.
(http://fanresearch.premierleague.com/global-media-platform.aspx)

Lancs Harp
09-08-2016, 03:06 PM
That of course is your prerogative. If Scotland as one switched of Sky they would be throwing money at the game here.


Cant see that myself.

As a whole Skys revenue from Scottish viewers would be relatively miniscule. Sky make far more revenue from overseas viewing rights than any domestic subscriptions. Sky and their flagship Premier League is global like it or not.

Michael
09-08-2016, 03:28 PM
Cant see that myself.

As a whole Skys revenue from Scottish viewers would be relatively miniscule. Sky make far more revenue from overseas viewing rights than any domestic subscriptions. Sky and their flagship Premier League is global like it or not.

Eh...did you see what sky spent in the domestic EPL rights?

Smartie
09-08-2016, 03:39 PM
I walked throw the meadows on Sunday. Not one game of fitba being played. When I was young there was a game on every spare blade of grass. 3 cricket games mind. Wtf ?

Seriously?

I remember as little as 10 - 15 years ago it used to be great on a Sunday - you could just pitch up and somehow you'd be able to wangle yourself into some game or other. Haven't been up that way on a Sunday for a while though, right enough.

I play a lot of 5's and 7's (to be fair, mainly at peak times after work) and pitches for that sort of thing still seem to be booking up well.

Alfred E Newman
09-08-2016, 04:17 PM
Scottish football is in serious decline. Our champions lose to a team from Gibraltar. 3rd place go out to a team from Malta.
No qualification for a major international tournament in 28 year.
Look at Iceland, Wales ect. Scottish football is gash

You forgot to mention that one of our lower league clubs took a top Danish side to penalties.

Albion Hibs
09-08-2016, 04:35 PM
I hope it is not just a kick in session from a load of sky tv reps that made their names and careers in Scotland.

We have far too much football on tv now, coupled with the fact that it is all EPL stuff and everything else is just scheduled to fit around thrillers like Stoke v West Brom. Wind the clock back 20'years even, if you wanted to see football you needed to go to a game...out with that you were relying on The Pink turning up before you had to be back home for your tea!

If sky invested even a fraction of what they do in England into our leagues you would have better stuff on offer, more folk turning up as a result which in turn would give a better atmosphere and no doubt even more turning up on that basis.

Danderhall Hibs
09-08-2016, 04:56 PM
That would imply Only an Excuse had a peak.

Fair point, although I'm sure it was decent when it first came about?

Lancs Harp
09-08-2016, 06:29 PM
Eh...did you see what sky spent in the domestic EPL rights?


I think you have somewhat missed my point Michael.

Michael
09-08-2016, 06:40 PM
I think you have somewhat missed my point Michael.

I don't agree with it. This country spends far more on TV than most (probably all) others. Scotland is 10℅ of one of their most important markets.

NORTHERNHIBBY
09-08-2016, 06:47 PM
Why do we need outsiders knocking our game when we seem to have enough insiders willing to stick the boot in. For parasites like Bootcher the adage about not being part of the solution then you are part of the problem fits him so well. Perhaps the programme should think about why our game was arguably at it's strongest in the early to mid eighties when the bigots were at their collective weakest.

Lancs Harp
09-08-2016, 06:52 PM
I don't agree with it. This country spends far more on TV than most (probably all) others. Scotland is 10℅ of one of their most important markets.

I actually made a mistake in my original post I thought Sky had overseas viewing rights but I've just checked and they don't.
We'll have to agree to disagree on the importance of the Scottish Market to them though. No one want to lose customers obviously but I don't think Scottish viewers pulling the plug on Sky per se would affect them that greatly. But lets face it its all conjecture because it just wont happen. We have the same conversations in England too many people south of the border think Sky money has spoilt the game. But its not just Sky money, overseas viewing rights earned the EPL 3 Billion. Countries like Thailand and Malaysia pay more to watch the the EPL than Sky or any her broadcaster pay the Scots Premier. The EPL is a monster and its not just Sky that is feeding it.