Tynecastle's main stand v Celtic's fans- what is stuck in the past more?

[Carheenlea]

In a bar next to The Aviva after last night's game, the Celtic fans were singing/shouting along to a live band which made The Wolfetones sound as tame as Abba. It felt like being transported back in time to middle of the hunger strikes, and the continued 'F the Brits' shouts from band and crowd in a predominately British audience throughout the set (the 25 minutes I saw of it before making my excuses and departing) was an amusing one.
All harmless enough under a roof in a Dublin boozer you will say, but have they as a fan base progressed and evolved that much through time? You get the impression many would welcome a return to the dark days of the troubles to give their songbook some up to date context.
This kind of stuff will go on in pubs before and after Celtic games every week - I've seen it in their official supporters club before Hibs games, and there never seems to be much in the way of criticism or mocking of such dated behaviour in our media.
Contrast that with the wild over-reaction to some handbags on the Hampden pitch, or to the hounding and pillaring of Leigh Griffiths for a brief, albeit ill-advised chant about a Hearts player in a pub full of Hibs fans.
On another point - not overly impressed with the Aviva Stadium. The three sided ground is quirky and unique in design, but for a National Stadium? 6 out of 10.

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

Will have to come back later and read this again.

[Itsnoteasy]

In a bar next to The Aviva after last night's game, the Celtic fans were singing/shouting along to a live band which made The Wolfetones sound as tame as Abba. It felt like being transported back in time to middle of the hunger strikes, and the continued 'F the Brits' shouts from band and crowd in a predominately British audience throughout the set (the 25 minutes I saw of it before making my excuses and departing) was an amusing one.
All harmless enough under a roof in a Dublin boozer you will say, but have they as a fan base progressed and evolved that much through time? You get the impression many would welcome a return to the dark days of the troubles to give their songbook some up to date context.
This kind of stuff will go on in pubs before and after Celtic games every week - I've seen it in their official supporters club before Hibs games, and there never seems to be much in the way of criticism or mocking of such dated behaviour in our media.
Contrast that with the wild over-reaction to some handbags on the Hampden pitch, or to the hounding and pillaring of Leigh Griffiths for a brief, albeit ill-advised chant about a Hearts player in a pub full of Hibs fans.
On another point - not overly impressed with the Aviva Stadium. The three sided ground is quirky and unique in design, but for a National Stadium? 6 out of 10.

I was in an irish boozer in Bordeaux for the Euros when ROI were there & have got to agreen. Most were going on & singing about the RA. To much for me so like yourself I made my excuses & left.

[Sir David Gray]

There's very little difference between Celtic and Sevco when it comes to this kind of stuff.

Both of them thrive on keeping Ireland's dark history a topic of discussion. I honestly wish the pair of them would die.

Sad, sad people.

[Hibernia&Alba]

All very sad and predictable; Glasgow is still riddled with that stuff on both sides. I would be confident in thinking many of those who participate have spent little time researching the issue but are merely indulging their tribal biases.

[superfurryhibby]

There's very little difference between Celtic and Sevco when it comes to this kind of stuff.

Both of them thrive on keeping Ireland's dark history a topic of discussion. I honestly wish the pair of them would die.

Sad, sad people.

Except for the small fact that Celtic didn't practice institutional discrimnation for much of the 20th century, no not much difference.

[The Godfather]

Except for the small fact that Celtic didn't practice institutional discrimnation for much of the 20th century, no not much difference.

There is no difference, end off! In the same way a racist is a racist. A homophobe is a homophobe. No difference at all. Intolerance and such behaviour cannot be measured as one is worse than the other. Not all Serco and Celtic fans are like this, but the ones that are 'No Difference'.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Except for the small fact that Celtic didn't practice institutional discrimnation for much of the 20th century, no not much difference.

I think SDG was referring to both cheeks of the same ***** fans love of "songs" glorifying events of the past that have very little to do with Scotland.

[Sir David Gray]

Except for the small fact that Celtic didn't practice institutional discrimnation for much of the 20th century, no not much difference.


I think SDG was referring to both cheeks of the same ***** fans love of "songs" glorifying events of the past that have very little to do with Scotland.

Correct.

I can't believe I'm having to clarify that to be honest.

[superfurryhibby]

I think SDG was referring to both cheeks of the same ***** fans love of "songs" glorifying events of the past that have very little to do with Scotland.

Sure, I recognise that bigotry is bigotry and that the party songs have nothing to do with football or Scotland. It's complex, but songs about the IRA have a different context in Ireland, especially older traditional songs. They aren't anti protestant and have more to do with resistance to the British state, than sheer hatred of another faith.

My long term stance is that we need to treat both Glasgow clubs on their merits and not simply buy ino the idea that they are two sides of the same coin. That makes it easier for the haters and in my mind is tantamount to collusion.

[Eyrie]

Sure, I recognise that bigotry is bigotry and that the party songs have nothing to do with football or Scotland. It's complex, but songs about the IRA have a different context in Ireland, especially older traditional songs. They aren't anti protestant and have more to do with resistance to the British state, than sheer hatred of another faith.

My long term stance is that we need to treat both Glasgow clubs on their merits and not simply buy ino the idea that they are two sides of the same coin. That makes it easier for the haters and in my mind is tantamount to collusion.

I'll treat both Ugly Sisters the same until one set of fans makes a genuine move into the 21st century. I couldn't care less whether Celtc or Sevco fans evolve first, but until that happens I'm very comfortable criticising both for the same reason - that they are using an ancient religious conflict in a different country as justification for their offensive bile in modern Scotland.

[Sir David Gray]

Sure, I recognise that bigotry is bigotry and that the party songs have nothing to do with football or Scotland. It's complex, but songs about the IRA have a different context in Ireland, especially older traditional songs. They aren't anti protestant and have more to do with resistance to the British state, than sheer hatred of another faith.

My long term stance is that we need to treat both Glasgow clubs on their merits and not simply buy ino the idea that they are two sides of the same coin. That makes it easier for the haters and in my mind is tantamount to collusion.

Ireland, as a country, is moving on from its past and that can be seen with the near normal relationship it now enjoys with the United Kingdom. Visits by the Queen, for example, would have been unthinkable 30 or 40 years ago and the Irish President has been over to the UK on several occasions as well. Again, unthinkable several decades ago.

These clowns would happily take Ireland back to the dark days of The Troubles, without actually having any direct experience or understanding of what that would actually mean for the country they allegedly love so much.

Make no mistake, they are just as bad as their pals from Govan who chant about King Billy etc and the decent folk from Ireland, both north and south, would disassociate themselves from all that crap.

To hell with Celtic and Rangers.

[Keith_M]

Sure, I recognise that bigotry is bigotry and that the party songs have nothing to do with football or Scotland. It's complex, but songs about the IRA have a different context in Ireland, especially older traditional songs. They aren't anti protestant and have more to do with resistance to the British state, than sheer hatred of another faith.

My long term stance is that we need to treat both Glasgow clubs on their merits and not simply buy ino the idea that they are two sides of the same coin. That makes it easier for the haters and in my mind is tantamount to collusion.


The songs about the IRA are from people that want to revel in a hideous past, where sectarianism and terrorism was rife. Sadly, the sectarianism is still there but people should be happy about the end of the hideous 30 years of the troubles, not wanting to glorify it at every opportunity.

Oh and anyone that thinks the troubles were not sectarian, or that these people don't sing anti-British songs needs their ears, and possibly their head, examined.

Having lived in Glasgow for a few years, I often had the dubious honour of sharing the train with some of these neanderthals on match-days, and heard their full, hideous, anti-Protestant and even anti-Scottish repertoire, as well as supposedly humourous songs about flying body parts from the victims of their heroes bomb attacks.

[Galahibby]

In a bar next to The Aviva after last night's game, the Celtic fans were singing/shouting along to a live band which made The Wolfetones sound as tame as Abba. It felt like being transported back in time to middle of the hunger strikes, and the continued 'F the Brits' shouts from band and crowd in a predominately British audience throughout the set (the 25 minutes I saw of it before making my excuses and departing) was an amusing one.
All harmless enough under a roof in a Dublin boozer you will say, but have they as a fan base progressed and evolved that much through time? You get the impression many would welcome a return to the dark days of the troubles to give their songbook some up to date context.
This kind of stuff will go on in pubs before and after Celtic games every week - I've seen it in their official supporters club before Hibs games, and there never seems to be much in the way of criticism or mocking of such dated behaviour in our media.
Contrast that with the wild over-reaction to some handbags on the Hampden pitch, or to the hounding and pillaring of Leigh Griffiths for a brief, albeit ill-advised chant about a Hearts player in a pub full of Hibs fans.
On another point - not overly impressed with the Aviva Stadium. The three sided ground is quirky and unique in design, but for a National Stadium? 6 out of 10.

Hope you got some video to send to the BBC? I'm sure they would be just as outraged as they were with Griffiths :aok:

[BH Hibs]

Surprised the locals didn't tell them to bolt or as you said the crowd was predominantly British born maybe the locals gave it a wide bearth themselves.

[Finn2015]

Sad thing is a lot of people in Northern Ireland are trying to move on yet you have west of Scotland based old firm supporters singing songs and revelling in all this stuff. Most of them have not lived through the dark days and the sheer terror that was Northern Ireland for many years. Yet they sing and wax lyrical about it all as if they are experts. If most people in Northern Ireland can move on then old firm supporters in the west of Scotland should shut the hell up

[Keith_M]

Sad thing is a lot of people in Northern Ireland are trying to move on yet you have west of Scotland based old firm supporters singing songs and revelling in all this stuff. Most of them have not lived through the dark days and the sheer terror that was Northern Ireland for many years. Yet they sing and wax lyrical about it all as if they are experts. If most people in Northern Ireland can move on then old firm supporters in the west of Scotland should shut the hell up


:aok:

[Mr White]

Ireland, as a country, is moving on from its past and that can be seen with the near normal relationship it now enjoys with the United Kingdom. Visits by the Queen, for example, would have been unthinkable 30 or 40 years ago and the Irish President has been over to the UK on several occasions as well. Again, unthinkable several decades ago.

These clowns would happily take Ireland back to the dark days of The Troubles, without actually having any direct experience or understanding of what that would actually mean for the country they allegedly love so much.

Make no mistake, they are just as bad as their pals from Govan who chant about King Billy etc and the decent folk from Ireland, both north and south, would disassociate themselves from all that crap.

To hell with Celtic and Rangers.


Sad thing is a lot of people in Northern Ireland are trying to move on yet you have west of Scotland based old firm supporters singing songs and revelling in all this stuff. Most of them have not lived through the dark days and the sheer terror that was Northern Ireland for many years. Yet they sing and wax lyrical about it all as if they are experts. If most people in Northern Ireland can move on then old firm supporters in the west of Scotland should shut the hell up
Great posts guys.

[Wee Effen Bee]

The songs about the IRA are from people that want to revel in a hideous past, where sectarianism and terrorism was rife. Sadly, the sectarianism is still there but people should be happy about the end of the hideous 30 years of the troubles, not wanting to glorify it at every opportunity.

Oh and anyone that thinks the troubles were not sectarian, or that these people don't sing anti-British songs needs their ears, and possibly their head, examined.

Having lived in Glasgow for a few years, I often had the dubious honour of sharing the train with some of these neanderthals on match-days, and heard their full, hideous, anti-Protestant and even anti-Scottish repertoire, as well as supposedly humourous songs about flying body parts from the victims of their heroes bomb attacks.


Hmmmmm. :confused: I'm obviously in a minority I don't think but you possibly denounce all pro IRA songs and anti-British songs as sectarian. If I were around when England invaded Scotland or if I were Irish when the English swarmed over to impose their religion, culture and laws upon us, I would take up arms too. I would also sing about those men and women who sacrificed themselves whilst fighting an invading force. I just don't see Celtic and Rangers as two cheeks as one has consistently sung about defending their nation/faith, whereas the other sings songs about oppressing people as an invading force. I can't support the 'modern' IRA's stance when they acted like criminal gang warlords but I still believe the Irish people were right to fight to try and defend the Irish nation. I have never understood how the hell a people singing about subjugating, raping torturing and murdering innocent natives in the name of the queen and the establishment is equated to those singing about Opposing that regime. The civil war (also known as The Troubles') was originally caused by England invading Ireland and the Irish have been dealing with it ever since. It's been said numerous times, but one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

[Mr White]

Hmmmmm. :confused: I'm obviously in a minority I don't think but you possibly denounce all pro IRA songs and anti-British songs as sectarian. If I were around when England invaded Scotland or if I were Irish when the English swarmed over to impose their religion, culture and laws upon us, I would take up arms too. I would also sing about those men and women who sacrificed themselves whilst fighting an invading force. I just don't see Celtic and Rangers as two cheeks as one has consistently sung about defending their nation/faith, whereas the other sings songs about oppressing people as an invading force. I can't support the 'modern' IRA's stance when they acted like criminal gang warlords but I still believe the Irish people were right to fight to try and defend the Irish nation. I have never understood how the hell a people singing about subjugating, raping torturing and murdering innocent natives in the name of the queen and the establishment is equated to those singing about Opposing that regime. The civil war (also known as The Troubles') was originally caused by England invading Ireland and the Irish have been dealing with it ever since. It's been said numerous times, but one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
It's got the square root of **** all to do with Scottish football regardless of how you interpret things though. I think that's the point most people are getting at when they say both sets of fans are bad as each other.

[blackpoolhibs]

Hmmmmm. :confused: I'm obviously in a minority I don't think but you possibly denounce all pro IRA songs and anti-British songs as sectarian. If I were around when England invaded Scotland or if I were Irish when the English swarmed over to impose their religion, culture and laws upon us, I would take up arms too. I would also sing about those men and women who sacrificed themselves whilst fighting an invading force. I just don't see Celtic and Rangers as two cheeks as one has consistently sung about defending their nation/faith, whereas the other sings songs about oppressing people as an invading force. I can't support the 'modern' IRA's stance when they acted like criminal gang warlords but I still believe the Irish people were right to fight to try and defend the Irish nation. I have never understood how the hell a people singing about subjugating, raping torturing and murdering innocent natives in the name of the queen and the establishment is equated to those singing about Opposing that regime. The civil war (also known as The Troubles') was originally caused by England invading Ireland and the Irish have been dealing with it ever since. It's been said numerous times, but one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

Bigotry is bigotry whatever side of the arse you support, what it has to do with 21st century Scotland and Scottish football is down to both clubs promoting it, and ignoring the consequences it causes to the rest of the country for their own gain.

[barcahibs]

Hmmmmm. :confused: I'm obviously in a minority I don't think but you possibly denounce all pro IRA songs and anti-British songs as sectarian. If I were around when England invaded Scotland or if I were Irish when the English swarmed over to impose their religion, culture and laws upon us, I would take up arms too. I would also sing about those men and women who sacrificed themselves whilst fighting an invading force. I just don't see Celtic and Rangers as two cheeks as one has consistently sung about defending their nation/faith , whereas the other sings songs about oppressing people as an invading force. I can't support the 'modern' IRA's stance when they acted like criminal gang warlords but I still believe the Irish people were right to fight to try and defend the Irish nation. I have never understood how the hell a people singing about subjugating, raping torturing and murdering innocent natives in the name of the queen and the establishment is equated to those singing about Opposing that regime. The civil war (also known as The Troubles') was originally caused by England invading Ireland and the Irish have been dealing with it ever since. It's been said numerous times, but one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

You don't think people singing songs at a football match about their faith (the whole crowds faith? Every celtc fan is a Catholic?) is sectarian? Have you seen a dictionary lately?

As for the rest of the essay on British/Irish politics, it's all very interesting but what has it got to do with Scottish football? Or even any sort of football?

Unless it's a discussion about whether the result of the battle of the Boyne would have been changed by the introduction of some Catholic substitutes at the 70 minute mark allowing the whole thing to go on to penalties, I don't see the relevance of it to a football match?

This is why it's two cheeks of the same erse. The relentless whataboutery while at the same time justifying the antics of the speakers preferred side as being Ok.

Both sides as bad as the other.

[CB_NO3]

Tbf Great Britain is a disgusting, vile nation.

[Smartie]

Sad thing is a lot of people in Northern Ireland are trying to move on yet you have west of Scotland based old firm supporters singing songs and revelling in all this stuff. Most of them have not lived through the dark days and the sheer terror that was Northern Ireland for many years. Yet they sing and wax lyrical about it all as if they are experts. If most people in Northern Ireland can move on then old firm supporters in the west of Scotland should shut the hell up

My experience on both sides of the Irish border is that they have very little/ no interest in this kind of nonsense these days.

It saddens me to say it but it is predominantly a Scottish problem nowadays, and it is sad that Scots often see fit to try and drag other folk into it (as per the example in the OP).

The continued existence and tolerance of the totally unacceptable element who follow Scotland's two biggest football clubs plays a massive part.

[northstandhibby]

My experience on both sides of the Irish border is that they have very little/ no interest in this kind of nonsense these days.

It saddens me to say it but it is predominantly a Scottish problem nowadays, and it is sad that Scots often see fit to try and drag other folk into it (as per the example in the OP).

The continued existence and tolerance of the totally unacceptable element who follow Scotland's two biggest football clubs plays a massive part.

This!

Unfortunately the Authorities imo seem to allow it to fester maybe to divide and rule or/and there is a bigot pound to be sought after.

I wish for a day Scottish Football rids itself once and for all of bigotry and a start would be to come down heavy on the rangers bigots who sang very loud bigoted songs at the historic Scottish Cup 2016 - Winners Hibernian FC.


GGTTH

[Winston Ingram]

There's very little difference between Celtic and Sevco when it comes to this kind of stuff.

Both of them thrive on keeping Ireland's dark history a topic of discussion. I honestly wish the pair of them would die.

Sad, sad people.

2 cheeks of the same arse

[Canon Hannan]

Hmmmmm. :confused: I'm obviously in a minority I don't think but you possibly denounce all pro IRA songs and anti-British songs as sectarian. If I were around when England invaded Scotland or if I were Irish when the English swarmed over to impose their religion, culture and laws upon us, I would take up arms too. I would also sing about those men and women who sacrificed themselves whilst fighting an invading force. I just don't see Celtic and Rangers as two cheeks as one has consistently sung about defending their nation/faith, whereas the other sings songs about oppressing people as an invading force. I can't support the 'modern' IRA's stance when they acted like criminal gang warlords but I still believe the Irish people were right to fight to try and defend the Irish nation. I have never understood how the hell a people singing about subjugating, raping torturing and murdering innocent natives in the name of the queen and the establishment is equated to those singing about Opposing that regime. The civil war (also known as The Troubles') was originally caused by England invading Ireland and the Irish have been dealing with it ever since. It's been said numerous times, but one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

A clear and well placed statement.

The Old Firm do not exit either. SEVCO are new club.

I feel SEVCO are sectarian where Celtic are lost in the past.

[jockspanner]

Hmmmmm. :confused: I'm obviously in a minority I don't think but you possibly denounce all pro IRA songs and anti-British songs as sectarian. If I were around when England invaded Scotland or if I were Irish when the English swarmed over to impose their religion, culture and laws upon us, I would take up arms too. I would also sing about those men and women who sacrificed themselves whilst fighting an invading force. I just don't see Celtic and Rangers as two cheeks as one has consistently sung about defending their nation/faith, whereas the other sings songs about oppressing people as an invading force. I can't support the 'modern' IRA's stance when they acted like criminal gang warlords but I still believe the Irish people were right to fight to try and defend the Irish nation. I have never understood how the hell a people singing about subjugating, raping torturing and murdering innocent natives in the name of the queen and the establishment is equated to those singing about Opposing that regime. The civil war (also known as The Troubles') was originally caused by England invading Ireland and the Irish have been dealing with it ever since. It's been said numerous times, but one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
But what does it have to do with football ???

[Alfred E Newman]

Tbf Great Britain is a disgusting, vile nation.

Dumbest post of the day.

[Keith_M]

Hmmmmm. :confused: I'm obviously in a minority I don't think but you possibly denounce all pro IRA songs and anti-British songs as sectarian. If I were around when England invaded Scotland or if I were Irish when the English swarmed over to impose their religion, culture and laws upon us, I would take up arms too. I would also sing about those men and women who sacrificed themselves whilst fighting an invading force. I just don't see Celtic and Rangers as two cheeks as one has consistently sung about defending their nation/faith, whereas the other sings songs about oppressing people as an invading force. I can't support the 'modern' IRA's stance when they acted like criminal gang warlords but I still believe the Irish people were right to fight to try and defend the Irish nation. I have never understood how the hell a people singing about subjugating, raping torturing and murdering innocent natives in the name of the queen and the establishment is equated to those singing about Opposing that regime. The civil war (also known as The Troubles') was originally caused by England invading Ireland and the Irish have been dealing with it ever since. It's been said numerous times, but one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.


This is the usual drivel that lot spout as well. It's nothing but apologist claptrap

The divide in the north of Ireland is quite obviously sectarian, as are their equivalents in Scotland. The Terrorist groups are split along the lines of Catholic and Protestant, and their murders often followed these lines. I have heard Celtc Fans sing anti-Protestant and even anti-Scottish songs. That is a clear hate-crime and they would be arrested, if the Police had the balls do anything about it.

The wounds from the Troubles are still raw, and this is not Ireland. That's why it's obvious to anybody with even half a brain that singing this sectarian drivel here is, at the very least, inappropriate and distasteful.

One more thing. Let's turn your saying on it's head: One Man's Freedom Fighter is another Man's Terrorist. Have a think abut that and how it affects those that have to listen to these songs of hate.

[Carheenlea]

I've been travelling to the Irish Republic on a regular basis for 10 years, with many hours spent in pubs watching Irish International football and rugby and GAA - always boisterous and passionate affairs. Last night was the first time in Ireland I've experienced the singing and chanting of the tiresome ditties that most of us appear to have grown weary with. No coincidence that it coincided with the reprobates that populate the Celtic support rocking into town.

[superfurryhibby]

This is the usual drivel that lot spout as well. It's nothing but apologist claptrap

The divide in the north of Ireland is quite obviously sectarian, as are their equivalents in Scotland. The Terrorist groups are split along the lines of Catholic and Protestant, and their murders often followed these lines. I have heard Celtc Fans sing anti-Protestant and even anti-Scottish songs. That is a clear hate-crime and they would be arrested, if the Police had the balls do anything about it.

The wounds from the Troubles are still raw, and this is not Ireland. That's why it's obvious to anybody with even half a brain that singing this sectarian drivel here is, at the very least, inappropriate and distasteful.

One more thing. Let's turn your saying on it's head: One Man's Freedom Fighter is another Man's Terrorist. Have a think abut that and how it affects those that have to listen to these songs of hate.

With this in mind, should we be looking at preventing Orange marches and getting rid of faith based schooling?

Football is a part of the sectarian equation in Scotland, but not the cause of it. There are wider societal forces at work and they need addressed too.

[Smartie]

With this in mind, should we be looking at preventing Orange marches and getting rid of faith based schooling?

Football is a part of the sectarian equation in Scotland, but not the cause of it. There are wider societal forces at work and they need addressed too.

Sectarianism used to be a big issue in other places such as Liverpool and Manchester but it largely died out there.

Rangers and Celtic are 2 of the biggest reasons it hasn't died out up here, especially in the West of Scotland.

Sectarianism has been able to thrive and prosper up here because too many people make too much money out of it and too many people actively enjoy it.

[Thecat23]

Celtic fans and The Rangers fans are two cheeks of the same @rse.

Both rotten to the core!

[Mr White]

Sectarianism has been able to thrive and prosper up here because too many people make too much money out of it and too many people actively enjoy it.

It's also hard to address as anyone in the public eye who tries to stand up to it usually experiences some fairly brutal intimidation.

[Aldo]

Celtic fans and The Rangers fans are two cheeks of the same @rse. Both rotten to the core!

Without a shadow of a doubt!

[NAE NOOKIE]

The 'The Rangers' are cock a hoop, because now not only have they got the throats of the nationalist community in Northern Ireland to stuff their sectarian bile down, they also have the 'Yes' side in the Scottish independence debate to flash their 'Britishness' at ..... Like bairns in a sweetie shop.

As for Celtic ...... In what way does the blizzard of Tricolours they wave at every away game in Europe say that this is a club representing Scotland? That really gets on my tits .... I also couldn't give a toss how many Irish fans they have, or who founded them, tweeting a good luck message to Scotland's opponents in a vital Euro qualifying match is not what I would expect from a 'Scottish' football club and does absolutely nothing to bring the two sets of idiots in this situation together.

As others have said ..... If these people on both sides want to wallow in the past and to force the conflicts and hatred of another country into Scottish society then let them join the bloody Orange lodge or the local Fenian society and play their daft songs and flutes and drums there ...... their ***** doesn't belong in Scottish football grounds, or our streets for that matter, and to be honest I couldn't care less about the historic reasons for the divisions they seem so desperate to perpetuate ...... If you continue to live in the past you are destined to repeat it.

The one thing I would say that Celtic's bigots have in their favour over Sevco's is this:

For so long as it remains the case in this country that the head of state is barred from being, or marrying, a Roman Catholic then the Green side in this car crash can reasonably point to the indisputable fact that their 'grievance' is a genuine one. Given that the UK parliament continues to allow this state of affairs to continue, they can fairly say that a country which will prosecute any of them found singing 'sectarian' songs or waving 'sectarian' banners has a bloody cheek, when that very country has enshrined bigotry and sectarianism into its own laws and yet doesn't prosecute itself.

For that matter ... The Orange side can hardly be shamed into kicking the hatred into touch, when the state that pretends to disapprove of their behaviour, so much so that it threatens them with prosecution for bigotry, itself promotes sectarianism and bigotry in its very own legislation.

Until the legislation going back to the act of union preventing members of the royal family from being or marrying Catholics is consigned to the dustbin of history where it belongs ... or the post of head of state is removed from the royal family ( as it bloody well should be ) .... then the British state will never find the answer to this problem and instead continue to be one of the causes of it.

[Finn2015]

Sectarianism used to be a big issue in other places such as Liverpool and Manchester but it largely died out there.

Rangers and Celtic are 2 of the biggest reasons it hasn't died out up here, especially in the West of Scotland.

Sectarianism has been able to thrive and prosper up here because too many people make too much money out of it and too many people actively enjoy it.

Very true and the inherent problem of why it is so hard to eradicate. The sad truth is, it is part of the reason why these two clubs have prospered and even attracted the support of people who feel that the respective clubs particular religious or cultural attachments are something they can tap into or be part of. I could wax lyrical here but it really is sad tho think that a big reason why these two clubs have become the biggest in Scotland by some distance is due to this issue

[Leith Mo]

Sick & tired of this but as Nae Nookie says above (I'll try to summarise where I believe the root of the problem lies): the State in which we live is by law sectarian and anti-Catholic. It's institutional and won't change until we have a democratic republic. The SFA playing "Penny Arcade" in its context as an "official" The Rangers song before our victory at Hampden sums up the (not so) blind eye to sectarianism (they sing it to celebrate a Troubles atrocity in an amusement arcade murdering Catholics "roll up & spend your last dime")

[Finn2015]

As an aside I hate the way sevco fans have *******ised certain songs and made them into sectarian ditties. I liked Roy Orbisons version of penny arcade

[Mr White]

Sick & tired of this but as Nae Nookie says above (I'll try to summarise where I believe the root of the problem lies): the State in which we live is by law sectarian and anti-Catholic. It's institutional and won't change until we have a democratic republic. The SFA playing "Penny Arcade" in its context as an "official" The Rangers song before our victory at Hampden sums up the (not so) blind eye to sectarianism (they sing it to celebrate a Troubles atrocity in an amusement arcade murdering Catholics "roll up & spend your last dime")

Are you sure about that LM? I've spoken to a few people over here (from both sides btw) that say that's got confused over the years and that "the bouncy" that they do refers to the murder of a catholic but there is an innocent reason for their association with Penny Arcade.

[marinello59]

Sick & tired of this but as Nae Nookie says above (I'll try to summarise where I believe the root of the problem lies): the State in which we live is by law sectarian and anti-Catholic. It's institutional and won't change until we have a democratic republic. The SFA playing "Penny Arcade" in its context as an "official" The Rangers song before our victory at Hampden sums up the (not so) blind eye to sectarianism (they sing it to celebrate a Troubles atrocity in an amusement arcade murdering Catholics "roll up & spend your last dime")

The Penny Arcade song is innocent. Celtic fans searched frantically around to find a reason to attach a sectarian nature to it. Let's leave them to it rather than buying in to their stupid games.

[majorhibs]

Tbf Great Britain is a disgusting, vile nation.


2 cheeks of the same arse


Dumbest post of the day.

Listen, mr Bogie, when ye get around, there isnae much worse nations than our 'UK'. Let me tell ye, having to go to places to work that people from the UK have been before, around the world, dinnae ever ever kid yourself that people fi this island who have been before ye have behaved well.

[High-On-Hibs]

People who need to make their political points through songs usually aren't worth listening to.

[Mr White]

Listen, mr Bogie, when ye get around, there isnae much worse nations than our 'UK'. Let me tell ye, having to go to places to work that people from the UK have been before, around the world, dinnae ever ever kid yourself that people fi this island who have been before ye have behaved well.

What even with your friendly, diplomatic demeanour you've met with a hostile reception abroad on account of being a UK citizen? Scandalous :agree:

[majorhibs]

[QUOTE=Mr White;4776552]What even with your friendly, diplomatic demeanour you've met with a hostile reception abroad on account of being a UK citizen? Scandalous :
Need an ambassador beside me obviously, eh? I really enjoy trying to learn new languages. Doesnae mean I'm any good but I try. Do you? Its fun! Should see some of the drinks you get served when you try to go "local"

[marinello59]

People who need to make their political points through songs usually aren't worth listening to.


Woody Guthrie.
Crass.
Billy Bragg.
I could go on. Your comment is dumb, song is a perfect way to express political opinion.

[Mr White]

[QUOTE=Mr White;4776552]What even with your friendly, diplomatic demeanour you've met with a hostile reception abroad on account of being a UK citizen? Scandalous :
Need an ambassador beside me obviously, eh? I really enjoy trying to learn new languages. Doesnae mean I'm any good but I try. Do you? Its fun! Should see some of the drinks you get served when you try to go "local"

I try not to go local over here tbh. I don't really fancy learning to play the flute :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

People who need to make their political points through songs usually aren't worth listening to.

Seriously?

Political comment through the medium of music has been with us as long as politics has. Sometimes, it's the only way to make a point.

[High-On-Hibs]

If you want to persuade people towards your own side of the political debate. You don't do it by singing songs. People will just think you're a dumbass.

[majorhibs]

[QUOTE=majorhibs;4776554]

I try not to go local over here tbh. I don't really fancy learning to play the flute :greengrin

Worked first 6 months ae last year in shipyard in Belfast, total eye opener, really thought that N.I. Was movin on but Belfast was somethin, its ain place eh? Have to say, when ive toured around the rest of NI on my Honda its seemed cool, but Belfast last year was a bit of a straightener for me. Plenty areas where you just couldnae! Still some place!

[CropleyWasGod]

If you want to persuade people towards your own side of the political debate. You don't do it by singing songs. People will just think you're a dumbass.

Bob Dylan's a dumbass then? :greengrin

[marinello59]

If you want to persuade people towards your own side of the political debate. You don't do it by singing songs. People will just think you're a dumbass.

Your best yet. :faf::faf:

[marinello59]

Bob Dylan's a dumbass then? :greengrin

No, he's a song and dance man. :greengrin

[Mr White]

Worked first 6 months ae last year in shipyard in Belfast, total eye opener, really thought that N.I. Was movin on but Belfast was somethin, its ain place eh? Have to say, when ive toured around the rest of NI on my Honda its seemed cool, but Belfast last year was a bit of a straightener for me. Plenty areas where you just couldnae! Still some place!

I don't really know belfast too well but it wouldn't surprise me if the shipyards aren't the best indicator of public opinion over here. I don't know how much it's changed but certainly in the height of the troubles it would be difficult to get a job in there if your shoe was on the wrong foot I believe.

I've met with some pretty ignorant and at times bigoted views over here but overall most folks seem forward looking decent people. It's a small but unfortunately very vocal minority that keep the coals of hatred stoked sadly.

[CropleyWasGod]

No, he's s song and dance man. :greengrin

So Joan Baez is a pole-dancer :greengrin

[cabbageandribs1875]

As an aside I hate the way sevco fans have *******ised certain songs and made them into sectarian ditties. I liked Roy Orbisons version of penny arcade



as far as i know that song was penned by a gent down in england somewhere, he gave permission for the huns to use it as a means to raise funds for the Erskine war veterans care homes, i haven't a clue if it's used by the orcs to celebrate some kind of sectarian hatred(but seeing as the huns don't actually sing any songs without vile sectarian attachments to the song, it would be hard not to think it is indeed sung with some sectarianism in mind) but i would like to think if it was and he found out then he would surely be quite horrified




oh and p.s. i always liked roy orbison songs with penny arcade being one of my favourites, maybe not so now :(

[CropleyWasGod]

If you want to persuade people towards your own side of the political debate. You don't do it by singing songs. People will just think you're a dumbass.

Out of interest, where do you stand on political comedy?

I ask as I went to see Mark Thomas in the Fringe tonight. It was uncompromising in its political message, as one might expect.

[marinello59]

Out of interest, where do you stand on political comedy?

I ask as I went to see Mark Thomas in the Fringe tonight. It was uncompromising in its political message, as one might expect.

Dumbass. :greengrin

[Lancs Harp]

In England I get a bit fed up of the "you're a Hibs fan, you're a "left footer", why don't you support Celtic etc etc" virtually every time people learn I follow Hibs. Down here most football fans assume Hibs to be mini Celtic in total ignorant bliss.

I'm English and protestant, for the record (not that should mean anything) and proud as **** to support Hibs.

Our club is totally non sectarian (in my experience), lets keep it that way. Be proud of our heritage, be proud of who we are, be proud of where we are going.

Seeing tricolours, green black and white union flags, saltires, green saltires flying beside each other must really confuse and irk certain fans of other persuasions ..... good .... long may it continue.

WE ARE HIBS.

[CropleyWasGod]

Dumbass. :greengrin

Agreed, right up there with Lenny Bruce, Bill Hicks, Shakespeare and Aristophanes.

Asses the lot of them.

[Wee Effen Bee]

]This is the usual drivel that lot spout as well. It's nothing but apologist claptrap[/B]

The divide in the north of Ireland is quite obviously sectarian, as are their equivalents in Scotland. The Terrorist groups are split along the lines of Catholic and Protestant, and their murders often followed these lines. I have heard Celtc Fans sing anti-Protestant and even anti-Scottish songs. That is a clear hate-crime and they would be arrested, if the Police had the balls do anything about it.

The wounds from the Troubles are still raw, and this is not Ireland. That's why it's obvious to anybody with even half a brain that singing this sectarian drivel here is, at the very least, inappropriate and distasteful.

One more thing. Let's turn your saying on it's head: One Man's Freedom Fighter is another Man's Terrorist. Have a think abut that and how it affects those that have to listen to these songs of hate.

This is weird as I have tried to post a reply to this and a couple of other posts a few times but they don't appear to be coming up. I am working so I don't always get a chance check responses on threads. Anyway, this is the third time I have tried so this time lucky:

So once again: thanks for for your reasoned insight. I don't think you have read my post properly as I didn't say anywhere that I am OK with any sectarian songs at the fitba. The OP was in an Irish Republican-sympathetic bar (I am guessing) in Dublin for Christ sake. That is where I said I understand why these songs were being sung. I also said not all Republican songs about fighting the English/British are sectarian. That would mean that Flower of Scotland can be viewed as sectarian as it is about a battle where we defeated the English. Plenty of Irish songs are viewed as folk songs. What is it to do with fitba? Social and family groups who have been raised/indoctrinated in the same manner attend football games and support a distinct team. Dismissing them both as the SAME because they sing these songs is counter-productive and too simplistic. Developing an understanding of WHY they push these agendas is the best way of combating it: through education - not just completely dismissing it as outdated dogma.

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

This!

Unfortunately the Authorities imo seem to allow it to fester maybe to divide and rule or/and there is a bigot pound to be sought after.

I wish for a day Scottish Football rids itself once and for all of bigotry and a start would be to come down heavy on the rangers bigots who sang very loud bigoted songs at the historic Scottish Cup 2016 - Winners Hibernian FC.


GGTTH

Agreed - the fact that both clubs in addition to the "SFA" turns a blind eye to what is being belted out in stadiums throughout the country when we have the joys of the old firm on tour tells me everything I need to know about football in this country.

It took rangers 25 mins to sing a song that was about football (something about the bread man being magic?) But yet nobody is condoning it at the highest level of our game? Truly is depressing.

Do the SFA/Old Firm allow it on the basis that the old firm game sells worldwide?? Why not promote all of Scottish football worldwide instead of going cap in hand to the ugly sisters from Glasgow!!

[northstandhibby]

In England I get a bit fed up of the "you're a Hibs fan, you're a "left footer", why don't you support Celtic etc etc" virtually every time people learn I follow Hibs. Down here most football fans assume Hibs to be mini Celtic in total ignorant bliss.

I'm English and protestant, for the record (not that should mean anything) and proud as **** to support Hibs.

Our club is totally non sectarian (in my experience), lets keep it that way. Be proud of our heritage, be proud of who we are, be proud of where we are going.

Seeing s, saltires, green salttricolours, green black and white union flagires flying beside each other must really confuse and irk certain fans of other persuasions ..... good .... long may it continue.

WE ARE HIBS.

I'm sure everyone's also aware of the big Polish flag that is on display in the East Stand at mainly the bigger games which I really appreciate. It's great to see different nationalities and cultures attending ER. It is a broad church indeed.



GGTTH

[Lancs Harp]

Agreed - the fact that both clubs in addition to the "SFA" turns a blind eye to what is being belted out in stadiums throughout the country when we have the joys of the old firm on tour tells me everything I need to know about football in this country.

It took rangers 25 mins to sing a song that was about football (something about the bread man being magic?) But yet nobody is condoning it at the highest level of our game? Truly is depressing.

Do the SFA/Old Firm allow it on the basis that the old firm game sells worldwide?? Why not promote all of Scottish football worldwide instead of going cap in hand to the ugly sisters from Glasgow!!


The Old Firm game is Massive in Scotland, huge in Britain .... not much anywhere else in the world though.

[Leith Mo]

Are you sure about that LM? I've spoken to a few people over here (from both sides btw) that say that's got confused over the years and that "the bouncy" that they do refers to the murder of a catholic but there is an innocent reason for their association with Penny Arcade.

Absolutely certain. Murder of a priest in an amusement arcade. "Bouncy bouncy" a reference to "the vibration" felt when a pub frequented mainly by RCs was blown "sky high"

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

The Old Firm game is Massive in Scotland, huge in Britain .... not much anywhere else in the world though.

True. But with the right marketing and exposure so could the Edinburgh derby,Aberdeen vs Dundee Utd be.

Complete crock the way the MSM and sfa are corrupted my the old firm nonsense

[Mr White]

Absolutely certain. Murder of a priest in an amusement arcade. "Bouncy bouncy" a reference to "the vibration" felt when a pub frequented mainly by RCs was blown "sky high"

I think you're incorrect on both counts tbh. Fairly hard to prove either way though admittedly.

[Lancs Harp]

Absolutely certain. Murder of a priest in an amusement arcade. "Bouncy bouncy" a reference to "the vibration" felt when a pub frequented mainly by RCs was blown "sky high"

Rangers fans I know havent got a clue where Penny Arcade started from so I'm petty sure a Hibs fan with an agenda doesn't.

Give us some hard evidence.

I dislike Rangers as much as any Hibby but the Penny Arcade jibes are just bs.

[Leith Mo]

I well remember asking the former Scottish Justice Minister (now a leading figurehead in raising funds for our Club)to raise a motion at Holyrood in favour of repealing all anti-discriminatory legislation in our country and he smirked and turned away. Until the powers that be refuse to turn a blind eye; until the law is changed;until people stop denying it exists (even on here);until the SFA refuse to tacitly condone it we will continue to have this in our existence. The vast majority of sectarian comments/songs I hear are anti-Catholic in sentiment.Those that sing should be educated about many things - how about starting with: many of the finest heroes of the Irish Republican tradition were non-conformist Protestants; the Fenian Society wss founed in America by 2 non-Catholics of Irish descent. All of which has nothing to do with football but certain peepul choose to bring it in to the game

[Leith Mo]

Rangers fans I know havent got a clue where Penny Arcade started from so I'm petty sure a Hibs fan with an agenda doesn't.

Give us some hard evidence.

I dislike Rangers as much as any Hibby but the Penny Arcade jibes are just bs.
Not sure if the "Hibs fan with an agenda" comment meant personally or not? I believe in a free democratic Republic in all parts of the world - inclunding the so-called "British Isles". Re "show us the evidence" - as Mulder & Scully say "the truth is out there" but in this case very much factual.

[HappyAsHellas]

Absolutely certain. Murder of a priest in an amusement arcade. "Bouncy bouncy" a reference to "the vibration" felt when a pub frequented mainly by RCs was blown "sky high"

The bouncy was alleged to be celebrating the death of Robert Hamill, but the bouncy was being sang in Ibrox as far back as 1989 and Hamill wasn't murdered till 1997. Pure celtic and utterly wrong. I also heard that Ibrox was built on a site that contained a "penny arcade". No proof of that I hasten to add, but it might be as true as any other version.

[Mr White]

All of which has nothing to do with football but certain peepul choose to bring it in to the game

And sadly there are just as many on the other side of the fence keen to keep it going too. I was raised a catholic but don't consider myself to be religious at all anymore. In recent years I've had a close up of the other side of the debate (my neighbour 2 doors down currently has a union flag up on a pole above his front door. Last month it was one commemorating the ulster loyalists lost at the somme, in april there was one for the Queen's birthday).

The conclusion I've drawn is that intolerance of other people's opinions and beliefs can't be defended by whataboutery or other forms of hypocrisy.

[Dashing Bob S]

People who need to make their political points through songs usually aren't worth listening to.

They usually have no politics at all, as they generally lack the basic intellect to discern a genuine political stance. It's just a sheepish way for sectarian twats to bond with fellow clowns, annoy others of supposedly different persuasion and bore the rest of us senseless.

They remind me of children, the way they repeat the same rubbish over again, usually with the same provocative expressions kids use when they want to get under an adult's skin.

[H18 SFR]

I'm over in Ireland right now for my daughters christening, County Wexford to be precise...I'm hosting the after party which is consisting of a Scotland V Ireland sing off. A lot of the Irish song refer to the IRA. Essentially I am saying that old habits die hard. Things will literally never change.

[SanFranHibs]

Seriously?

Political comment through the medium of music has been with us as long as politics has. Sometimes, it's the only way to make a point.

Well said CWG. Sex Pistols, The Jam, Billy Bragg.....where do we stop?

And I think it was our fans on that glorious day in May on the pitch goading the Rangers fans and I certainly seen some Irish flags carried by Hibs fans?

[Leith Mo]

I'm over in Ireland right now for my daughters christening, County Wexford to be precise...I'm hosting the after party which is consisting of a Scotland V Ireland sing off. A lot of the Irish song refer to the IRA. Essentially I am saying that old habits die hard. Things will literally never change.

I'm pretty sure that most if not all of the songs being sung referencing the "IRA" will refer to a day before the Provos and/or "Dissident Republicans" opposed to the latest peace process. In any event as said before (whilst my own political view on the situation is clear in my mind) it has nothing to do with football (although the history of discrimination shown to the old Belfast Celtic FC and its supporters subsequent decision to adopt the Glasgow namesake makes interesting reading). I hope you're standing in the van and enjoying the freedom of old Wexford without having seen an Irish battlefield

[Dashing Bob S]

I'm over in Ireland right now for my daughters christening, County Wexford to be precise...I'm hosting the after party which is consisting of a Scotland V Ireland sing off. A lot of the Irish song refer to the IRA. Essentially I am saying that old habits die hard. Things will literally never change.

But things literally are changing. There has been the cease fire, the good Friday agreement and power sharing between unionists and nationalists. Sectarianism is no longer at the bedrock of the state politics. As a result many people, particularly the more educated, have, are and will continue to move away from that nonsense.

Yes, it'll stick around in the culture for a while - all those silly pub songs can't be unlearned over one or two generations. But the malign aspects will hopefully continue to shrink and be preserve of ever more isolated uneducated idiots.

[Finn2015]

In England I get a bit fed up of the "you're a Hibs fan, you're a "left footer", why don't you support Celtic etc etc" virtually every time people learn I follow Hibs. Down here most football fans assume Hibs to be mini Celtic in total ignorant bliss.

I'm English and protestant, for the record (not that should mean anything) and proud as **** to support Hibs.

Our club is totally non sectarian (in my experience), lets keep it that way. Be proud of our heritage, be proud of who we are, be proud of where we are going.

Seeing tricolours, green black and white union flags, saltires, green saltires flying beside each other must really confuse and irk certain fans of other persuasions ..... good .... long may it continue.

WE ARE HIBS.

Good post and I think we as a club and support have it right. Yes, we have an Irish background but it doesn't define us and hasn't stopped people from all backgrounds supporting our club. In this regard at least, I think we have evolved in a more mature way than Celtic. Yes, we have Irish roots but it does not define us and while we are proud of it, we can put it in context.

[WhileTheChief..]

Say what you like about Celtic fans and their songs, in answer to the OP, Tynie is certainly from a bygone age and is most certainly stuck in the past.

Old style 40w bulbs, asbestos, Calor gas heaters, Robertson's lounge..... What have a I missed??

[Bill Milne]

Tbf Great Britain is a disgusting, vile nation.

Actually, Great Britain is the island I live on. If you mean the UK, then say so!

[AndyM_1875]

The Old Firm game is Massive in Scotland, huge in Britain .... not much anywhere else in the world though.

There is no game with quite such an inflated sense of its own self importance as the Old Firm game.

It's massive in the West of Scotland. But generally I find my Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen mates view it as something of an embarrassment. I can only view it with the sound off.

As for my English friends they watch it with the same fascination you have watching chimps throw their own poo around.
Outside of Scotland and to a much lesser extent the UK, nobody cares.

[Hibernian Verse]

I feel Tynie's main stand has had a very easy ride here!

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

There is no game with quite such an inflated sense of its own self importance as the Old Firm game.

It's massive in the West of Scotland. But generally I find my Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen mates view it as something of an embarrassment. I can only view it with the sound off.

As for my English friends they watch it with the same fascination you have watching chimps throw their own poo around.
Outside of Scotland and to a much lesser extent the UK, nobody cares.

:agree:

couldn't agree more. the MSM up here seem to thrive on it but not a single mention of the sectarian bile that is generated each and every single time these cretins play each other. quick enough to stick the boot in when any of the other clubs in the country get up to any sort of mischief though.

right now, i'd rather have a poorer league that anyone could win just so long as the cancer of our game left. the fact that we are now Scottish Cup Champions makes me want that even more so now. Winning it without the old firm would have felt tainted in certain aspects but now its done, let them go. If hibs had a chance of winning the premiership i have no doubt about it we'd be selling out the stadium

[hibeedonald]

Celtic fans have gradually improved over the last 5-10 years IMO, while Rangers have got worse.

[Finn2015]

Celtic fans have gradually improved over the last 5-10 years IMO, while Rangers have got worse.

I will say that sevco are the most odious set of supporters in general. I have more regard for the yams then them! I'll go along with the theory that on the whole, Celtic are not as bad as rangers but to put it in context, it's like my own views of take that and east 17. I'd rather have take that if given the choice between the two but that really doesn't say much for take that, more about a severe dislike for east 17.

😂😂😂

[GreenLake]

So Joan Baez is a pole-dancer :greengrin

I thought she was American

[CropleyWasGod]

I thought she was American

:greengrin

Reminds me of my favourite Chic Murray joke..

"I see you're a pole-vaulter"

"I'm actually German, but how did you know my name was Wolter?

[Andy74]

So who is everyone's favourite terrorist?

Probably Luke Skywalker for me. 😊

[lyonhibs]

Out of interest, where's the origin of Kafflick = left footer, Proddie = right footer??

[Wee Effen Bee]

So who is everyone's favourite terrorist?

Probably Luke Skywalker for me. 😊

I'll go with Nelson Mandela or James Connolly.:greengrin

[easty]

So who is everyone's favourite terrorist?

Probably Luke Skywalker for me. 😊

Captain Planet for me

[Carheenlea]

So who is everyone's favourite terrorist?

Probably Luke Skywalker for me. 😊

Anthony Stokes is the ultimate harbinger of terror.

[Mr White]

Out of interest, where's the origin of Kafflick = left footer, Proddie = right footer??

If I had to guess it would be because roughly 10% of the population are left handed/footed. Which would appeal to those who revel in being the majority/The People.

[CropleyWasGod]

If I had to guess it would be because roughly 10% of the population are left handed/footed. Which would appeal to those who revel in being the majority/The People.
Story I heard is that Irish men were more likely to use their left foot on the spade when digging up the fields.

Seeing it written down makes me realise what a load of bulldust it probably is, though :)

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[Mr White]

Story I heard is that Irish men were more likely to use their left foot on the spade when digging up the fields.

Seeing it written down makes me realise what a load of bulldust it probably is, though :)

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Yeah this whole subject is a minefield of myths, misinformation and superstition. A bit like Northern Ireland itself actually :greengrin

[Iggy Pope]

If you want to persuade people towards your own side of the political debate. You don't do it by singing songs. People will just think you're a dumbass.

Sir, Public Enemy would make a sorry old mess of your own dumb ass.