Falkirk want to change the play off system

[grunt]

http://www.falkirkfc.co.uk/club-statement-spfl-play-off-structure/

Falkirk Football Club Chairman, Doug Henderson has released the following statement regarding the SPFL Divisional Meeting, which was held last week, during which he discussed the structure of the SPFL play-offs.
Doug raised the unfairness of the current system. The SPFL Meeting agreed that the next meeting of Championship sides would discuss the issue to try to come forward with a common proposal. The Competitions and Events Committee of the SPFL also agreed that they would review the matter including any proposal from the Championship Meeting.
Doug Henderson said: “The current system is extremely popular with supporters as was shown from the great response from all Clubs during the play-offs over the last three years.
But, it has also been shown that it is extremely difficult for a Championship side to win through in up to 6 games when a Premier League side only has to play two. I have proposed that there should be a one off play-off at each stage in the competition so that the maximum number of games a Championship side would play is 3.
I think it is possible to restructure the competition without losing any funding. A single game with extra time and penalties at a neutral venue would attract a crowd, in most cases, which would be greater than the sum of the attendances in a two leg play-off. This year, for instance, the Falkirk v Hibs game drew 11,000 at Easter Road and 8,000 at Falkirk. If the game had been played at a neutral venue (like Hampden) on a one-off tie then, in most years, the attendance would be at least 30,000. By comparison, I would estimate that a Falkirk v Dunfermline play-off at Hampden would attract a crowd of over 20,000 – which would be in excess of the sum of the attendances in a two leg match.
Some might argue that the TV money would be lost, but the total TV money in this year’s play-offs was £200,000. By comparison, a Quarter Final in the Scottish Cup would attract a TV revenue of £160,000. On this basis it seems to me that it would be more attractive to TV companies to have one-off play-offs with the result at the end of each match and I believe this could be reflected in the income received.”

[Ergye]

It's a better option than the current one, but it ought to be - Premiership team plays 4th in Championship over 2 legs, and the winner plays the winner of 2nd and 3rd place in Championship.

[LancsHibs]

It's a better option than the current one, but it ought to be - Premiership team plays 4th in Championship over 2 legs, and the winner plays the winner of 2nd and 3rd place in Championship.

This seems far too sensible!

[O'Rourke3]

The playoffs to the top league were designed to keep the status quo. Then we royally screwed that up.

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

Or if they want to keep 6 games then the 2nd bottom Premiership club goes into a mini league with 2nd, 3rd and 4th of the Championship. Play each side home and away with the winner going up.

[eastterrace]

Or if they want to keep 6 games then the 2nd bottom Premiership club goes into a mini league with 2nd, 3rd and 4th of the Championship. Play each side home and away with the winner going up. this is a no no imagine us playing all these games and then playing a final, also what happens if you were bottom after two games crowds would plummet . Leave it how it is , we're going up anyway let Falkirk and the rest scrap away

[Carheenlea]

Just be done with it and make it two up - two down. Reward for having a solid Championship season, and relegation for poor season in top flight. No escape mechanism to favour the premier league.

[lucky]

Still a wrong system. It should be two semi-final and a final with the final played at a neutral ground. His guess on attendances are wild speculation, 30000 never turned up for the SC semi final so very unlikely to get that for a play off semi.

[Jdawg]

Current system is fact, especially with games so close together. They didn't factor in championships teams going far in the Scottish Cup either, like us who went ALL the way :)

Either 2nd v 3rd 2 legs then 2 legs against 2nd bottom. 4th placed team out of 10 shouldn't be getting into a play off.

Or 11th v 4th and 2nd v 3rd and final over 1 leg at a neutral ground.

[Hibby70]

3rd v4th (1 game - home advantage to 3rd)
2nd v winner (home adv to 2nd)

2nd bottom v winner - neutral venue.

Keeps advantage to premier team (less games) but better chance for championship team.

[greenlex]

Just be done with it and make it two up - two down. Reward for having a solid Championship season, and relegation for poor season in top flight. No escape mechanism to favour the premier league.

This with bells on. Revamp the Spfl to two leagues playing each other once home and once away with three or four up and down. Playing each other four five six or even seven times a season is bioring and nonsense.

[ballengeich]

It's a better option than the current one, but it ought to be - Premiership team plays 4th in Championship over 2 legs, and the winner plays the winner of 2nd and 3rd place in Championship.

The reason that promotion to the premier is decided on a different basis from other divisions is that the Premier teams play 38 fixtures while other divisions play 36. To do what you suggest would need either the premier cramming an extra two weekday evening match days into an already crowded schedule, or to have the championship playoff teams kicking their heels for a week or two while the premier season finishes.

I reckon the best compromise would be the championship teams playing over one leg rather than two. The winners would then have played 37 or 38 games and meet a premier team that's played 38. If playoffs are to be over one leg I'd have the games between teams from the same divsion at the higher placed team's ground as a reward for the season's performance.

[s.a.m]

Just be done with it and make it two up - two down. Reward for having a solid Championship season, and relegation for poor season in top flight. No escape mechanism to favour the premier league.

Me too. :aok:

[fairafarhib]

The reason that promotion to the premier is decided on a different basis from other divisions is that the Premier teams play 38 fixtures while other divisions play 36. To do what you suggest would need either the premier cramming an extra two weekday evening match days into an already crowded schedule, or to have the championship playoff teams kicking their heels for a week or two while the premier season finishes.

I reckon the best compromise would be the championship teams playing over one leg rather than two. The winners would then have played 37 or 38 games and meet a premier team that's played 38. If playoffs are to be over one leg I'd have the games between teams from the same divsion at the higher placed team's ground as a reward for the season's performance.

Go with the English system. 3 relegated, automatic promotion for top 2 then the next 4 play off home and away with the final at Hampden or another suitable neutral venue. Relegating 3 from the Premeier would liven up a boring league.

[Winston Ingram]

Falkirk's suggestion is far better but the SPL sides will be having none of it.

We know our top league club are only interested in sooking the Old Firm boaby and don't give a flying fancy about creating a decent product.

[Finn2015]

I think that is a great statement and bang on. Don't like Falkirk but your man here makes a great argument

[Bostonhibby]

Its not a bad option compared to the current loaded system but I favour the old two up two down system, better reflection of how well / badly a team has done over the season and they get the reward their overall performance deserves.

The fact that it's Falkirk would make me put in an exclusion that no teams with plastic pitches, three stands,a budget fixation as a default argument for everything and a purple heided Billy Broon wannabe as manager should ever be allowed to compete for promotion.

[Finn2015]

Another good shout. Quite a few good suggestions here which are all better than the one the suits currently go with. Says a lot

[oneone73]

Its not a bad option compared to the current loaded system but I favour the old two up two down system, better reflection of how well / badly a team has done over the season and they get the reward their overall performance deserves.

The fact that it's Falkirk would make me put in an exclusion that no teams with plastic pitches, three stands,a budget fixation as a default argument for everything and a purple heided Billy Broon wannabe as manager should ever be allowed to compete for promotion.

Agree with all of this.

[Andy74]

Has there been 3 and the championship team won 1 of them?

Not overwhelming evidence that it needs fixed. You'd expect your top league team to be a bit better. You want the correct team in the correct league. 1 game can be a lottery.

[Kavinho]

Has there been 3 and the championship team won 1 of them?

Not overwhelming evidence that it needs fixed. You'd expect your top league team to be a bit better. You want the correct team in the correct league. 1 game can be a lottery.

True, but it's hard to argue that it isn't lopsided when it comes to the championship playing 6 games compare to thetop flight team playing 2.
Particularly on the evidence of the 3 years to date.

Not to mention, the 1 year it was a championship team that won, was in circumstances of an horrific collapse from the prem team....

[Kavinho]

Ps.. there'll never by 30,000 at a 1 off play of semi final been the likes of Falkirk and raith

[number9dream]

I'm not sure a team finishing 4th in a 10-team league should be in with any chance of promotion but the play-offs have been a reasonable success in generating interest & income.

11th v 4th over two legs

2nd v 3rd over two legs

final - one-off, neutral venue

[BH Hibs]

Falkirk's suggestion is far better but the SPL sides will be having none of it.

We know our top league club are only interested in sooking the Old Firm boaby and don't give a flying fancy about creating a decent product.

Sadly your right. I knew as soon as Sevco went up that would be the end of all reconstruction talk as Doncaster has his four bigot bashes back and the rest of Scottish football can GTF

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Ps.. there'll never by 30,000 at a 1 off play of semi final been the likes of Falkirk and raith

Thats what struck me about the idea... i think he wad being wildly optimistic with his crowd estimates.

[erin go bragh]

Win the league and let Falkirk and Utd fret over the play off system :)

[tamig]

There are loads of things you could do with the play off system. I have to say I think he is grossly over-estimating how many of his own fans would turn up for a play off final. Think he's being a bit optimistic there based on how many of them have turned up at recent Hampden games.

[nellio]

Does this show that they are looking at a playoff spot even now?? Appears they are accepting that we will win the league perhaps!!

I think it Is weighted unfairly towards the premier league team so they do have a point!

[JimBHibees]

Still a wrong system. It should be two semi-final and a final with the final played at a neutral ground. His guess on attendances are wild speculation, 30000 never turned up for the SC semi final so very unlikely to get that for a play off semi.

Yep Falkirk barely had 5k for either of the recent semi finals against us.

[JimBHibees]

I'm not sure a team finishing 4th in a 10-team league should be in with any chance of promotion but the play-offs have been a reasonable success in generating interest & income.

11th v 4th over two legs

2nd v 3rd over two legs

final - one-off, neutral venue

Much fairer system.

[--------]

Go with the English system. 3 relegated, automatic promotion for top 2 then the next 4 play off home and away with the final at Hampden or another suitable neutral venue. Relegating 3 from the Premier would liven up a boring league.


I would totally agree with you. I've always thought that the way to liven up Scottish football is to increase the mobility of clubs between leagues. Easier to go down, but easier to go up as well, and a lot more really important matches, especially towards the end of the season.

Problem is we'd be asking the turkeys to vote for Christmas.

[northeast hibby]

don't think play offs are fair if you are points behind should not get in, 1 up 1 down, second bottom plays second top shouldn't have to play some team could be ten points behind like the championship in England

[cookin_on_gaz]

Another issue that needs attention is the suspension of players who get two yellow cards during the play off competition. It is unfair that a championship team can lose a number of its players whilst the Premiership team is unlikely to lose any unless they actually get a man sent off in the first game.

[JimBHibees]

Another issue that needs attention is the suspension of players who get two yellow cards during the play off competition. It is unfair that a championship team can lose a number of its players whilst the Premiership team is unlikely to lose any unless they actually get a man sent off in the first game.

Agree that is criminally unfair.

[MrSmith]

2 up 2 down - end of story!

[lord bunberry]

We should have 2 leagues of 20, with 3 going down and 2 automatically promoted and the next 4 in the playoffs. Why do we have 4 leagues? And why do we always make things more complicated than that need to be in this country? Everything seems to revolve around making sure the ugly sisters meet each other 4 times a season.

[Gatecrasher]

I think it is something that needs to be looked at.

I would consider

semi final - 2nd v 3rd over 2 legs

final - semi winner v prem club @ neutral venue

[HibernianJK]

11th Premiership club goes straight down and 2nd-4th fixtures stay as is to gain promotion.

[Speedy]

I'm not sure a team finishing 4th in a 10-team league should be in with any chance of promotion but the play-offs have been a reasonable success in generating interest & income.

11th v 4th over 1 leg - 11th at home

2nd v 3rd over 1 leg - 2nd at home

final - one-off, neutral venue

Slight tweak to your system.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Still a wrong system. It should be two semi-final and a final with the final played at a neutral ground. His guess on attendances are wild speculation, 30000 never turned up for the SC semi final so very unlikely to get that for a play off semi.

I'm not sure what year the play off started, but I do know that Hamilton are the only Championship team to have been promoted using it. The whole thing is loaded in favour of the Premiership team. IMO Falkirk were well capable of beating Killie over 2 legs and you have to look at the number of games and the resulting fatigue as a factor in why they didn't.

Two legged semis .... Championship 4th v 2nd bottom Premiership. 2nd in Championship v 3rd in Championship, followed by a one off final at a suitable neutral venue.

[Andy74]

I'm not sure what year the play off started, but I do know that Hamilton are the only Championship team to have been promoted using it. The whole thing is loaded in favour of the Premiership team. IMO Falkirk were well capable of beating Killie over 2 legs and you have to look at the number of games and the resulting fatigue as a factor in why they didn't.

Two legged semis .... Championship 4th v 2nd bottom Premiership. 2nd in Championship v 3rd in Championship, followed by a one off final at a suitable neutral venue.

I'm not so sure Killie and Motherwell in the past two seasons were bad enough to come down. They both had some decent results in the run in and Motherwell recovered to a good position again the next year.

Falkirk weren't that good. Folk think we should have been above them easily.

I'm not so sure it's just the weighting of the games. Sometimes the better teams win! We are a good example of a team that deserved to go down and did even if it seemed against Hamilton fixture wise.

[MB62]

I'm not sure a team finishing 4th in a 10-team league should be in with any chance of promotion but the play-offs have been a reasonable success in generating interest & income.

11th v 4th over two legs

2nd v 3rd over two legs

final - one-off, neutral venue

:top marks :thumbsup:

[Ringothedog]

I never quite get this 6 games nonsense, the Championship has 36 games over the Course of the season and the premiership 38,it really only works out at 2 more games for the Championship team(potentially) and in fact could be equal if the 2nd place team makes the paly off final.

[Dashing Bob S]

Still a wrong system. It should be two semi-final and a final with the final played at a neutral ground. His guess on attendances are wild speculation, 30000 never turned up for the SC semi final so very unlikely to get that for a play off semi.

I thought he was talking out his arse a little on attendance too. Agree with neutral ground though.

[ballengeich]

I'm not sure what year the play off started, but I do know that Hamilton are the only Championship team to have been promoted using it. The whole thing is loaded in favour of the Premiership team. IMO Falkirk were well capable of beating Killie over 2 legs and you have to look at the number of games and the resulting fatigue as a factor in why they didn't.

Two legged semis .... Championship 4th v 2nd bottom Premiership. 2nd in Championship v 3rd in Championship, followed by a one off final at a suitable neutral venue.
It's only been going 3 years so it's too early to say whether it favours either division. The problem with the semis you outline is that the championship teams would be sitting for a week or so waiting for the premiership to finish, due to the premier's two extra games in the regular schedule. I don't know whether that's an advantage or disadvantage.

Another suggestion - 4th in the championship don't get into the playoffs. 2nd play 3rd on the final two days of the premier season, then the winner goes into a playoff final with both participants having played 38 games, so equally fresh (or knackered).

[Killiehibbie]

2 up, 2 down but if we have to have play offs 11th v 4th, 2nd v 3rd 2 legs and one game final neutral venue.

[Eyrie]

The top division will never vote in favour of having a second team automatically relegated and even getting them to accept a fairer system than the current heavily loaded one will be difficult.

I agree though with all the suggestions above about 11th vs 4th and 2nd vs 3rd with a one-off final at a neutral venue, and the only question is whether the semis should also be one-off games with home advantage for 11th and 2nd.

[SonOfDavidFrancey]

Quite like rugby league system. Top eight separate from bottom four in super league for final rounds of matches and bottom four join top four in championship for Remaining fixtures.

[Kavinho]

I never quite get this 6 games nonsense, the Championship has 36 games over the Course of the season and the premiership 38,it really only works out at 2 more games for the Championship team(potentially) and in fact could be equal if the 2nd place team makes the paly off final.

What would you prefer. .
6 games in 3 weeks or 2 in 1 ?

[Joe6-2]

Just be done with it and make it two up - two down. Reward for having a solid Championship season, and relegation for poor season in top flight. No escape mechanism to favour the premier league.

This, this and this again!
The play offs are an absolute joke, rewarding failure!!

[ancient hibee]

Quite like rugby league system. Top eight separate from bottom four in super league for final rounds of matches and bottom four join top four in championship for Remaining fixtures.

Something like this was proposed and rubbished by everybody.Seemed quite sensible to me.

[Bristolhibby]

The top division will never vote in favour of having a second team automatically relegated and even getting them to accept a fairer system than the current heavily loaded one will be difficult.

I agree though with all the suggestions above about 11th vs 4th and 2nd vs 3rd with a one-off final at a neutral venue, and the only question is whether the semis should also be one-off games with home advantage for 11th and 2nd.

If they won't vote in favour, how about 2nd v 11th, winner takes all at Hampden? One off game, ET then penalties.

J

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

I'm not so sure Killie and Motherwell in the past two seasons were bad enough to come down. They both had some decent results in the run in and Motherwell recovered to a good position again the next year.

Falkirk weren't that good. Folk think we should have been above them easily.

I'm not so sure it's just the weighting of the games. Sometimes the better teams win! We are a good example of a team that deserved to go down and did even if it seemed against Hamilton fixture wise.

You are possibly right, and maybe 3 - 1 is the kind of ratii you would expect from top flight v second flight teams.

I do think the booking / suspension rule is unfair amd should be wiped though for definite.

I dont agree that it should come down to one match though - two legs is fairest, its too easy for the lesser team to sit-in amd fluke it, that will be why falkirk want it changed, suits defensive teams better.

[Jones28]

Ps.. there'll never by 30,000 at a 1 off play of semi final been the likes of Falkirk and raith

As soon as we are promoted there is no chance of there being 30000 at a play off semi final. A final perhaps. No disrespect to United but they hardly pull in massive crowds at big semi finals as it is.

[jgl07]

The reason for the asymmetry is that Premiership teams have a 38 match season while Championship sides have only 36 matches. To make a 11th v 3rd system work, the two seasons would need to be co-ordinated. This will be difficult with the fixation of a winter break in the Premiership. Just an excuse to travel toi the far east for money spinning friendlies in my view.

Since the current arrangements were put in place only Hibs under Terry Butcher were so incompetent to be relegated. Rangers were soundly beaten by Motherwell a year ago and more recently Falkirk were crushed by Kilmarnock.

I think that the EPL and EFL have it right. Use the playoffs to sort out promotion but not relegation. So bottom two clubs in PL are relegated and the top club in the Championship is promoted. The second promotion spot is determined by a 2nd v 5th and 2rd v 4th play off system.

[Dashing Bob S]

If I was Falkirk's chairman I'd just pay for hooker for Houston. It would save all the palaver.