Murder in Nice

[cabbageandribs1875]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36800730

A lorry has struck a crowd during Bastille Day celebrations in the southern French city of Nice, with reports of many dead.
The incident took place on the famous Promenade des Anglais during a firework display, media reports say.
One image on Twitter showed about a dozen people lying on the street, some being tended to.



latest the police are reporting is could be several dozen dead, 60 feared dead at the moment

[Sir David Gray]

Just watching this at the moment, terrible scenes.

There's reports that the lorry driver got out after crashing into the crowd and started shooting people before being shot himself. There's also reports of an accomplice of his being on the run.

[Onceinawhile]

Will wait until we have confirmation before commenting too much.

There was plenty folk thought similar in Glasgow not that long ago.

[cabbageandribs1875]

73 confirmed fatalities, at least 100 injured

[cabbageandribs1875]

Will wait until we have confirmation before commenting too much.

There was plenty folk thought similar in Glasgow not that long ago.



hand grenades found inside the lorry



and guns

[Peevemor]

I'm watching the news here and there's very little confirmed news for the moment.

[cabbageandribs1875]

no idea how to work that twitter thing but i googled the french TV station that's saying it's confirmed i-Tele ?

Peter H Todd ‏@Peter_H_Todd (https://twitter.com/Peter_H_Todd) 14m14 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/Peter_H_Todd/status/753727166421016576)
I-Tele Tv in france say 73+ people has now died after a lorry killed people at speed. Now over 100 injured. #PrayForNice (https://twitter.com/hashtag/PrayForNice?src=hash) #StayStrong (https://twitter.com/hashtag/StayStrong?src=hash)

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they say the police have told them that figure

[Mibbes Aye]

Not surprisingly, the eye-witness who got interviewed live on Sky is being slaughtered on Twitter for her comments.

Sometimes words just fail you, unfortunately they didn't in her case.

[cabbageandribs1875]

now 77 confirmed fatalities

[High-On-Hibs]

As if France hasn't been through enough suffering already. A country that does it's best to accommodate all cultures and creeds. These hate groups will continue to target France, because if they can force France to close themselves up, then the whole of Europe will inevitably follow. Making each country individually more vulnerable.

[CB_NO3]

As if France hasn't been through enough suffering already. A country that does it's best to accommodate all cultures and creeds. These hate groups will continue to target France, because if they can force France to close themselves up, then the whole of Europe will inevitably follow. Making each country individually more vulnerable.
Utter rubbish. Muslims have been made to feel isolated in France. The government has not allowed them to integrate at all.

[Pete]

Papers found belonging to a French Tunisian at the same time as president Hollande says he's shutting the borders again.

If this devastation is the work of one individual then it will be truly terrifying.

[Hibbyradge]

Not surprisingly, the eye-witness who got interviewed live on Sky is being slaughtered on Twitter for her comments.

Sometimes words just fail you, unfortunately they didn't in her case.

I don't follow twitter.

What's being said? What did she say?

[Peevemor]

Utter rubbish. Muslims have been made to feel isolated in France. The government has not allowed them to integrate at all.
Eh ? There are millions of muslims in France, most of whom were born there (mostly a throwback to their former African colonies). Any lack of integration can't be blamed on one specific government.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Eh ? There are millions of muslims in France, most of whom were born there (mostly a throwback to their former African colonies). Any lack of integration can't be blamed on one specific government.

My impression, from stuff ive read, is that there is a fairly fundamental clash between the fairly anti-religion state, and people who feel discriminated against - muslims often feel peraecuted because they are not allowed to be as overtly religious as elsewhere.

But that could be wrong. The disenfranchised of the banlieues (sp?) Is i think more similar to the problem with young blacks in london - a cycle of exclusion that is as much theor fault as it is the state's, imo.

[Moulin Yarns]

It was being reported on the radio this morning that there are around 10,000 people in France being monitored for terrorist links and that it takes 20 police to monitor each one so it has to be assessed on a daily basis as to who is the greatest risk at any one time. Impossible task.

[High-On-Hibs]

Utter rubbish. Muslims have been made to feel isolated in France. The government has not allowed them to integrate at all.

Isolated? France has been one of the most open countries for Muslim immigrants in the world. Sure, they may have certain laws that some Muslims may not like, but then they'll be laws that other people don't like either. But give me a country where that isn't the case? France is one of the most multicultural countries in the world.

[Peevemor]

My impression, from stuff ive read, is that there is a fairly fundamental clash between the fairly anti-religion state, and people who feel discriminated against - muslims often feel peraecuted because they are not allowed to be as overtly religious as elsewhere.

But that could be wrong. The disenfranchised of the banlieues (sp?) Is i think more similar to the problem with young blacks in london - a cycle of exclusion that is as much theor fault as it is the state's, imo.
I think you're closer to the mark, though France is only a secular state on paper - nearly all the public holidays for example are linked to Christianity /Catholicism.

Living in Brittany I see a strong comparison with Scotland and the UK. There are relatively fewer blacks/muslims etc. here and there's no major integration problems - far from it, but there are the problems you mention in bigger cities elsewhere - especially Paris & Marseille.

[(((Fergus)))]

Utter rubbish. Muslims have been made to feel isolated in France. The government has not allowed them to integrate at all.

Somewhere between 10 and 30 per cent of the French army is muslim.

[(((Fergus)))]

It was being reported on the radio this morning that there are around 10,000 people in France being monitored for terrorist links and that it takes 20 police to monitor each one so it has to be assessed on a daily basis as to who is the greatest risk at any one time. Impossible task.


According to the Wall Street Journal, this particular dog wasn't on the terror watch list:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/terror-attack-in-nice-on-bastille-day-kills-dozens-1468569739?mod=e2tw

[Pretty Boy]

Not really related to the terrible events in Nice but I found the outcry about 'freedom of expression' around the time of the Charlie Hebdo attacks a tad hypocritical.

If a yound Muslim girl wished to wear a khimar to school (that's a headscarf not any facial covering) they are forbidden by law from doing so. Likewise a sikh can't wear a turban, a Catholic a small crucifix etc. How does that fit in with 'freedom of expression?

[TheReg!]

Not really related to the terrible events in Nice but I found the outcry about 'freedom of expression' around the time of the Charlie Hebdo attacks a tad hypocritical.

If a yound Muslim girl wished to wear a khimar to school (that's a headscarf not any facial covering) they are forbidden by law from doing so. Likewise a sikh can't wear a turban, a Catholic a small crucifix etc. How does that fit in with 'freedom of expression?

Well if they don't like it they're free to move within the EU to a country that gives them that freedom of expression or try and change the system within through political means, not shoot, blow up, stab, run over, hack, riot, intimidate or anything else. Radicalised Muslims are the problem not Frnce

[Pretty Boy]

Well if they don't like it they're free to move within the EU to a country that gives them that freedom of expression or try and change the system within through political means, not shoot, blow up, stab, run over, hack, riot, intimidate or anything else. Radicalised Muslims are the problem not Frnce
At no point did I even suggest that it was an acceptable motive for murder on a mass scale (is there one?). I'm not entirely sure why you only picked up on Muslims in my post though.

It was a more general point that freedom of speech/expression only seems to apply when it suits. Probably the wrong thread tbh.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

[Mibbes Aye]

I don't follow twitter.

What's being said? What did she say?

Sorry, she was being interviewed live on Sky News by phone in the aftermath. I don't think she actually saw anything, she had stopped off in a restaurant on the way to where it had all happened and was talking about what she had heard and the aftermath.

She made comments along the lines of, "...I might be being selfish but this has ruined our shopping trip" and that she had bought all this lovely stuff but she couldn't look at it now.

The most generous interpretation was that she was in some kind of shock but she didn't sound like she was.

Anyway, minor footnote to a horrible, horrible event.

[Jay]

Sorry, she was being interviewed live on Sky News by phone in the aftermath. I don't think she actually saw anything, she had stopped off in a restaurant on the way to where it had all happened and was talking about what she had heard and the aftermath.

She made comments along the lines of, "...I might be being selfish but this has ruined our shopping trip" and that she had bought all this lovely stuff but she couldn't look at it now.

The most generous interpretation was that she was in some kind of shock but she didn't sound like she was.

Anyway, minor footnote to a horrible, horrible event.


Tbf she was probably in shock. Ive heard two people on the phone today telling their accounts and they both rambled some pretty incoherent nonsense. Nonsense in the sense that it was a bit all over the place, not made up.

[CB_NO3]

Eh ? There are millions of muslims in France, most of whom were born there (mostly a throwback to their former African colonies). Any lack of integration can't be blamed on one specific government.
It can be when you try to do things like ban the burka. When you do things like that, it encourages Muslims to rise up against the state. As you say, there are millions of Muslims in France and they have been there for over 300 years. They made France the country it is today, but by telling a specific group of people what they can and cant wear, it creates a divide.

There was also stories about the mayor of Nice banning Muslims from praying on the pitch. Again, creating divide.

[steakbake]

What if it wasn't a terror attack, but a guy who'd lost it?

[Hibrandenburg]

What if it wasn't a terror attack, but a guy who'd lost it?

Or a mixture of both?

[Colr]

It can be when you try to do things like ban the burka. When you do things like that, it encourages Muslims to rise up against the state. As you say, there are millions of Muslims in France and they have been there for over 300 years. They made France the country it is today, but by telling a specific group of people what they can and cant wear, it creates a divide.

There was also stories about the mayor of Nice banning Muslims from praying on the pitch. Again, creating divide.

It's not a requirement of Islam for women to wear a Burka.

[CropleyWasGod]

It can be when you try to do things like ban the burka. When you do things like that, it encourages Muslims to rise up against the state. As you say, there are millions of Muslims in France and they have been there for over 300 years. They made France the country it is today, but by telling a specific group of people what they can and cant wear, it creates a divide.

There was also stories about the mayor of Nice banning Muslims from praying on the pitch. Again, creating divide.

It's not about creating divide. It's about maintaining the secular state that France has tried to be since the Revolution.

The French Government have a tricky balancing act to carry out. I don't pretend to understand all the complexities , and Peevemor can maybe shed some light on it, but AFAIK the majority of French people are actually in favour of measures like that, not just "against" Islam.

[Mibbes Aye]

It's not about creating divide. It's about maintaining the secular state that France has tried to be since the Revolution.


:agree:

Secular liberalism as a fundamental principle, which is antithesis to the ideology of Isis.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

It can be when you try to do things like ban the burka. When you do things like that, it encourages Muslims to rise up against the state. As you say, there are millions of Muslims in France and they have been there for over 300 years. They made France the country it is today, but by telling a specific group of people what they can and cant wear, it creates a divide.

There was also stories about the mayor of Nice banning Muslims from praying on the pitch. Again, creating divide.

That is where i do have a problem with mult-culturalism as i understand it.

It is a fundamental pillsr of france, yet a large immigrant group wants to change it because it doesbt suit their religion.

Surely the onus is on those moving to a countey to adjust to the norms there?

If you want to take advantage of living in another country, surely you should respect the prevalent cultural norms?

I know it gets a bit more tricky when you are talking 2nd generation etc

[Betty Boop]

A new low for Kelvin Mackenzie.

http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/fatima-manji-just-trolled-kelvin-mckenzie-and-the-sun-hard-by-writing-the-truth-for-the-liverpool-echo--ZJgKB8TTWLb

[RyeSloan]

A new low for Kelvin Mackenzie. http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/fatima-manji-just-trolled-kelvin-mckenzie-and-the-sun-hard-by-writing-the-truth-for-the-liverpool-echo--ZJgKB8TTWLb

And a new low for him is low indeed. Ridiculous comments and hope he gets (w)rapped severely for it.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

And a new low for him is low indeed. Ridiculous comments and hope he gets (w)rapped severely for it.

Yeah, its a stupidnthing to say.

It did strike me though that a lot of the commentators who had a right go at the bbc for making the football presenter who is very overtly religious an anchor, might not agree in this case. I recall reading articles and comments in the guardian to that effect.