The Chilcot Report

[Betty Boop]

Pretty damning. Let's be having you BLiar !

[Moulin Yarns]

In a nutshell


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmrOf0_XEAASeRr.jpg:large

[Betty Boop]

The families will make sure that officials including Blair will be held to account.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

The families will make sure that officials including Blair will be held to account.

I have my doubts about that. Im not sure if families have any recourse, and it is also highly debateable whether they should.

It will certainly dent tony's legacy though.

[marinello59]

The families will make sure that officials including Blair will be held to account.

The most powerful statements are coming from them. No polished double speak from Rosie Gentle and co. They are just telling it like it is.

[Betty Boop]

The most powerful statements are coming from them. No polished double speak from Rosie Gentle and co. They are just telling it like it is.
:agree: A statement coming shortly from Cameron and (I can't wait) a reponse from Jezza.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

The most powerful statements are coming from them. No polished double speak from Rosie Gentle and co. They are just telling it like it is.

Well, they are telling it how they see it. That's a bit different.

I've always thought that the families are too close tp be objective - how could they be?

Maybe thats why legal action would be good, because it would examine quite objectively.

[Pretty Boy]

Blair must be trolling with his response.

[Betty Boop]

Blair must be trolling with his response.
So's Cameron's.

[hibsbollah]

It's all disgusting really. I haven't the heart for following all the mealy mouthed denials and double talk from the men in suits involved. I'm just trying to picture what 500,000-1,000,000 (MSF estimate) dead people look like and can't manage to get my head round the enormity of it all. Not to mention the tension it all inflamed and the result today.

[steakbake]

A tanking currency, isolating ourselves from our neighbours and partners, a UN report detailing human rights abuses and now an official enquiry names what many of us knew all along - that we went to war on very dodgy grounds. Is the UK a failed state?

[Moulin Yarns]

It's all disgusting really. I haven't the heart for following all the mealy mouthed denials and double talk from the men in suits involved. I'm just trying to picture what 500,000-1,000,000 (MSF estimate) dead people look like and can't manage to get my head round the enormity of it all. Not to mention the tension it all inflamed and the result today.

It is chilling, this was done for the Somme dead british soldiers, 19,240 in total.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3668197/Somme-soldiers-commemorated-artist-creates-19-240-figures-hand-stitched-shrouds-honour.html

[hibsbollah]

It is chilling, this was done for the Somme dead british soldiers, 19,240 in total.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3668197/Somme-soldiers-commemorated-artist-creates-19-240-figures-hand-stitched-shrouds-honour.html

It's that kind of graphic, pictorial illustration that starts to make you understand properly. I felt the same seeing all the white crosses at Arlington just outside Washington DC. Sobering in the face of this media driven bullcrap.

[High-On-Hibs]

I was only 12 when Blair sent British troops into Iraq. Even then I knew it was based on a lie. Why didn't more people?

[marinello59]

I was only 12 when Blair sent British troops into Iraq. Even then I knew it was based on a lie. Why didn't more people?

Nobody knew, everybody suspected.
The weapons inspectors should have been left to complete their task before a shot was fired then we would all have known.
Blair looks like the guiltiest man on the planet right now as he faces the press and no wonder.

[ronaldo7]

Nobody knew, everybody suspected.
The weapons inspectors should have been left to complete their task before a shot was fired then we would all have known.
Blair looks like the guiltiest man on the planet right now as he faces the press and no wonder.

He's had weeks to get his story together, but still he stands, and looks into the camera and lies.

[marinello59]

He's had weeks to get his story together, but still he stands, and looks into the camera and lies.

He looks like he is going to burst in to tears.

[High-On-Hibs]

He looks like he is going to burst in to tears.

I'd say it looks more like he's trying to force a tear and has so far failed.

[PeeJay]

Think Blair has given honest and professional responses to an excruciatingly tough day for him that he cannot "win" whatever he says: a decision had to be made back then, he made it, it was flawed and ultimately catastrophic. His detractors will find nothing in what he says to accept his view of things as their minds are made up anyway, and those who feel they can perhaps "comprehend" the decision-making process he (and others) conducted at the time, won't feel any sense of exoneration for Blair or the route taken.

[ACLeith]

For a long time I've wondered about Blair's real reasons, not what he said at the time or since. Various thoughts -

- did his ego want history to think of him alongside Churchhill as a victorious wartime PM?
- did Bush have such dirt on him that blackmailing him into supporting the USA "right or wrong" was his only way out?
- was he just a bloodthirsty warmonger?
- does he have a psychopathic disorder?

His continuing refusal to meet the families of the servicemen who died, plus his lack of real remorse, tends to suggest the last option to me. Definitions are "a personality disorder expressed by persistent antisocial behavior, impaired empathy and remorse, and bold, disinhibited behavior". or "a person with amoral and antisocial behavior, lack of ability to love or establish meaningful personal relationships, extreme egocentricity, failure to learn from experience, etc.".

Maybe someday a professional will examine him, from his prison cell, and come to a conclusion

And while we are thinking of all people who died directly or indirectly as a result, let's not forget David Kelly, the WMD investigator, who also lost his life, either by the official version - suicide - or by other means.

[ronaldo7]

He looks like he is going to burst in to tears.

I wonder what Dr David Kelly would have thought about it today.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

I'd say it looks more like he's trying to force a tear and has so far failed.

This will be very upsetting for him, even if not for the right reasons.

A man so convinced of his own virtue coming to terms with the fact that his legacy, which to a politician is vert important, has been destroyed.

Its hardto imagine how, that optimistic man from the mid-90s who swept the country and was poises to take us into the sunlit uplands, has become the guy who waged aggressive war, who has split the labour party, possibly irreparably and whose legacy of financial prudence and social reform was swept away in a financial crisis he and his pal were at least partly responsible for.

Quite an epitaph, amd one you would have struggled to imagine in 1996.

[High-On-Hibs]

This will be very upsetting for him, even if not for the right reasons.

A man so convinced of his own virtue coming to terms with the fact that his legacy, which to a politician is vert important, has been destroyed.

Its hardto imagine how, that optimistic man from the mid-90s who swept the country and was poises to take us into the sunlit uplands, has become the guy who waged aggressive war, who has split the labour party, possibly irreparably and whose legacy of financial prudence and social reform was swept away in a financial crisis he and his pal were at least partly responsible for.

Quite an epitaph, amd one you would have struggled to imagine in 1996.

The mans a multimillionaire who will be offski on his personal jet into the sunshine somewhere far far away from here. I'm sure he'll have absolutely no problem getting over today. Wish I could say the same for the families.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

For a long time I've wondered about Blair's real reasons, not what he said at the time or since. Various thoughts -

- did his ego want history to think of him alongside Churchhill as a victorious wartime PM?
- did Bush have such dirt on him that blackmailing him into supporting the USA "right or wrong" was his only way out?
- was he just a bloodthirsty warmonger?
- does he have a psychopathic disorder?

His continuing refusal to meet the families of the servicemen who died, plus his lack of real remorse, tends to suggest the last option to me. Definitions are "a personality disorder expressed by persistent antisocial behavior, impaired empathy and remorse, and bold, disinhibited behavior". or "a person with amoral and antisocial behavior, lack of ability to love or establish meaningful personal relationships, extreme egocentricity, failure to learn from experience, etc.".

Maybe someday a professional will examine him, from his prison cell, and come to a conclusion

And while we are thinking of all people who died directly or indirectly as a result, let's not forget David Kelly, the WMD investigator, who also lost his life, either by the official version - suicide - or by other means.


Dont agree with that.

He made bad decisions, perhaps through bad luck, bad judgement or a combination of both.

Hes no psycopath, and the actions he took didnt seem as wrong at the time, as hindsight now makes them look.

Thats not to exonerate him from the bad decisions, but i dont think there is much more to it.

He wagered that our relationship with the usa was worth it.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

The mans a multimillionaire who will be offski on his personal jet into the sunshine somewhere far far away from here. I'm sure he'll have absolutely no problem getting over today. Wish I could say the same for the families.

Nah, i think you are wrong and you really misread a persons motivation for becoming PM if you think that.

If money was his motivation he would have stayed a barrister, not taken a paycut to join an unelectable party (at the time)

[RyeSloan]

Dont agree with that. He made bad decisions, perhaps through bad luck, bad judgement or a combination of both. Hes no psycopath, and the actions he took didnt seem as wrong at the time, as hindsight now makes them look. Thats not to exonerate him from the bad decisions, but i dont think there is much more to it. He wagered that our relationship with the usa was worth it.

Naa don't agree...his decisions looked wrong at the time to many many people and they look just as wrong today.

I do agree though that he put too high a weight on the US relationship and I thought at the time that he was trying to temper there desperate desire to go to an illegal war by trying to get a UN resolution. Where the wheels came off is when that never materialised, we should have been the brakes on the situation at that point but decided to go all in anyway. A deeply flawed and tragic decision that has caused untold death, destruction and global instability and that's before you count the cost in $ and £.

[RyeSloan]

The mans a multimillionaire who will be offski on his personal jet into the sunshine somewhere far far away from here. I'm sure he'll have absolutely no problem getting over today. Wish I could say the same for the families.

What has money got to do with it?

Blair comes across as a rather vein person that has been somewhat unable to come to terms with how he is viewed by the public as a result of this decision, I really don't think that how much money he has in the bank will be any consolation to him in this respect what so ever.

Not that I'll be shedding any tears for him of course.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Naa don't agree...his decisions looked wrong at the time to many many people and they look just as wrong today.

I do agree though that he put too high a weight on the US relationship and I thought at the time that he was trying to temper there desperate desire to go to an illegal war by trying to get a UN resolution. Where the wheels came off is when that never materialised, we should have been the brakes on the situation at that point but decided to go all in anyway. A deeply flawed and tragic decision that has caused untold death, destruction and global instability and that's before you count the cost in $ and £.

Agree with your assessment of when it went wrong.

However i dont recall it being as clear atbthe time. Many of those campaigning against the war were those who campaign against every war.

And in a post 9/11 world, standing by the usa did look to many like a sensible choice.

I do agree that it looked dodgy at the time, and i still find dr kelly's death a tad suspicious, but hindsight has firmed up what were only suspicions at the time, albeit suspicions widely held.

[ACLeith]

Dont agree with that.

He made bad decisions, perhaps through bad luck, bad judgement or a combination of both.

Hes no psycopath, and the actions he took didnt seem as wrong at the time, as hindsight now makes them look.

Thats not to exonerate him from the bad decisions, but i dont think there is much more to it.

He wagered that our relationship with the usa was worth it.

I profoundly felt at the time that the war was wrong and was being waged for dodgy reasons, that's not hindsight on my part.

I know a leith family who had strong connections with Iraq and who expressed grave concerns in 2003 of what would happen - everything they said sadly turned out to be right. If you think I have strong views about TB you should hear them!!

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

I profoundly felt at the time that the war was wrong and was being waged for dodgy reasons, that's not hindsight on my part.

I know a leith family who had strong connections with Iraq and who expressed grave concerns in 2003 of what would happen - everything they said sadly turned out to be right. If you think I have strong views about TB you should hear them!!

Yeah,maybe you are right and i am looking back with too much perspective. I was a student at the time, memories can be a bit fuzzy from then...!!

[ronaldo7]

Dont agree with that.

He made bad decisions, perhaps through bad luck, bad judgement or a combination of both.

Hes no psycopath, and the actions he took didnt seem as wrong at the time, as hindsight now makes them look.

Thats not to exonerate him from the bad decisions, but i dont think there is much more to it.

He wagered that our relationship with the usa was worth it.

Millions would disagree with you. Charlie Kennedy, and Robin Cook to name but two. The treatment of those two at the time was absolutely disgusting, with Kennedy being called a poisonous snake, all for being against the war.

Turns out they were right, but aren't around to see it.

[High-On-Hibs]

McTernan is arguably even more blood boiling than Blair. A self serving narcissist at it's worst.

[steakbake]

McTernan is arguably even more blood boiling than Blair. A self serving narcissist at it's worst.

He is beyond parody. A complete ********, who regularly confirms himself as such in pretty much everything he says.

It's like he's gone from adviser to professional troll.

[ACLeith]

Yeah,maybe you are right and i am looking back with too much perspective. I was a student at the time, memories can be a bit fuzzy from then...!!

I wish I could call myself a student back then but I would have been a VERY mature one 😈

[AndyM_1875]

Millions would disagree with you. Charlie Kennedy, and Robin Cook to name but two. The treatment of those two at the time was absolutely disgusting, with Kennedy being called a poisonous snake, all for being against the war.

Turns out they were right, but aren't around to see it.

Spot on.
Charlie Kennedy was hammered by Blairite Labour MPs, Tory MPs and especially so by the disgrace of a tabloid press we have in the UK. Now we have the ironic situation of the ****ing Sun Newspaper calling for "justice" over Chilcot when they were the biggest cheerleaders for the UK going into Iraq in the first place.

Charlie Kennedy and Robin Cook were both right in 2003. It's very sad that neither is around to see their opinions vindicated.

[ronaldo7]

Spot on.
Charlie Kennedy was hammered by Blairite Labour MPs, Tory MPs and especially so by the disgrace of a tabloid press we have in the UK. Now we have the ironic situation of the ****ing Sun Newspaper calling for "justice" over Chilcot when they were the biggest cheerleaders for the UK going into Iraq in the first place.

Charlie Kennedy and Robin Cook were both right in 2003. It's very sad that neither is around to see their opinions vindicated.

https://t.co/QnOf4BDxLe

This might refresh a few memories on here.:aok:

[James70]

Blair should stand trial but it is unlikely that he will. Even if he does, with the millions he is now making, he will be able to hire the very best defence counsel available and will be found not guilty. I cannot stand his smarmy smile or his equally greedy wife. I hope that this report destroys him.

[Pretty Boy]

Twitter suggesting Corbyn was heckled by some of his own MPs as he attacked the case that was put forward for the war.

What a shambles Labour are.

[CropleyWasGod]

Am I right in thinking that Alastair Campbell has escaped from criticism?

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[One Day Soon]

A tanking currency, isolating ourselves from our neighbours and partners, a UN report detailing human rights abuses and now an official enquiry names what many of us knew all along - that we went to war on very dodgy grounds. Is the UK a failed state?


Exactly the opposite.

What was widely being pilloried in advance as a lengthy and expensive whitewash appears in fact to have been a thorough investigation. If it had concluded 'Blair completely blameless' it would have been denounced as an establishment cover up. Since it didn't it is now being quoted with solemnity by every group and individual you can think of to prove that their position was right all along. Including, ridiculously, that laughable Green MP who had her three conclusions on Chilcot on Twitter within less than an hour of publication - must be quite the speed reader that one.

I can't think of many other countries in the world - maybe none - where such an inquiry would have been allowed to take place at all. That is a testament to our liberal democracy, warts and all.

[One Day Soon]

Am I right in thinking that Alastair Campbell has escaped from criticism?

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


That's my understanding. The widely repeated claim that he was involved in 'sexing up' the intelligence dossier is without foundation. I'm sure Mr Gilligan is sending him an apology and flowers as we speak.

[High-On-Hibs]

I can't think of many other countries in the world - maybe none - where such an inquiry would have been allowed to take place at all. That is a testament to our liberal democracy, warts and all.

Sorry. But very few people would read that and swallow it. It's been a long drawn out inquiry which for all we know, misses out the most vital pieces of information. Just because the report wasn't as soft as many were expecting, doesn't mean that it contained everything necessary to give the full picture.

The idea that other countries are worse, therefore we should just be grateful for our "semi-democracy", isn't good enough.

[ronaldo7]

Am I right in thinking that Alastair Campbell has escaped from criticism?

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

:agree: And the Cabinet of the day. A more supine lot you'll not see. Apart from Clare Short of course.

[ronaldo7]

Twitter suggesting Corbyn was heckled by some of his own MPs as he attacked the case that was put forward for the war.

What a shambles Labour are.

Ian Austin MP shouted for him to sit down and shut up. :crazy: I wonder what team he supports

[Colr]

Twitter suggesting Corbyn was heckled by some of his own MPs as he attacked the case that was put forward for the war.

What a shambles Labour are.

One of the sad things about this is that all the good things that they tried to do on education and social mobility which people voted for en masse are in the bin as well so the middle class intellectual elite can re-establish themselves in control of the Labour party.

[ronaldo7]

Campbell was up to his neck in the whole affair. As expected.

17100 17101

This was started a full year before action started. Spinners gonna spin.

[Ronniekirk]

There were no weapons of mass destruction
This was all about Regime change and Blairs determination to act with America
There was no proper exit strategy and it was always going to end up the way it has destabilising the Region and turning it into a breeding ground for Terrorists
flawed intelligence but Gung ho leaders were happy to go with limited info
There was no need to go to War so quickly
Its a good Report and hasn't dodgedthe key issues


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Holmesdale Hibs]

The government were negligent and acted with utter incompetence before and after the war. We rushed in to war with inadequate equipment and planning, failed to understand the aftermath and failed to execute any sensible exit strategy. The intelligence was misunderstood and misrepresented and the decision process for going to war was not fit for purpose. And this isn't the worst outcome either as there was no mention of deliberate deception.

Let's hope some good comes from this. The investigation seems thorough and after this shambles hopefully we'll think a bit harder about going to war in future. I'm personally quite p'ed off with all of this and can't imagine how I'd feel if I'd lost a family member. What a mess.

[Finn2015]

My heart goes out to all those who lost loved ones in this war. Blair and your cronies, hang your heads in shame

[heretoday]

Ian Austin MP shouted for him to sit down and shut up. :crazy: I wonder what team he supports

Corbyn had a good day. Labour has a principled leader unlike the wretched Blair.

Good to see Robin Cook getting some credit today too and not before time.

[High-On-Hibs]

Adam Ingram (Minister of State for the Armed Forces) can't even bring himself to apologize. Complete denial from him and his ilk. Old opportunistic machine politicians that can't pass on quickly enough.

[steakbake]

Newsnight tonight: 5 guests. All of them supporters of the Iraq War, trying to retrospectively justify it.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

The government were negligent and acted with utter incompetence before and after the war. We rushed in to war with inadequate equipment and planning, failed to understand the aftermath and failed to execute any sensible exit strategy. The intelligence was misunderstood and misrepresented and the decision process for going to war was not fit for purpose. And this isn't the worst outcome either as there was no mention of deliberate deception.

Let's hope some good comes from this. The investigation seems thorough and after this shambles hopefully we'll think a bit harder about going to war in future. I'm personally quite p'ed off with all of this and can't imagine how I'd feel if I'd lost a family member. What a mess.

Given our governmennt currently is committed to respecting the will of parliament, you could say it already has. We would probably be fighting in syria just now otherwise

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Corbyn had a good day. Labour has a principled leader unlike the wretched Blair.

Good to see Robin Cook getting some credit today too and not before time.

Corbyn and stopped clocks comes to mind.

[McD]

Spot on.
Charlie Kennedy was hammered by Blairite Labour MPs, Tory MPs and especially so by the disgrace of a tabloid press we have in the UK. Now we have the ironic situation of the ****ing Sun Newspaper calling for "justice" over Chilcot when they were the biggest cheerleaders for the UK going into Iraq in the first place.

Charlie Kennedy and Robin Cook were both right in 2003. It's very sad that neither is around to see their opinions vindicated.


The sun are masters at positioning themselves with the way the wind is blowing, full of hypocrisy and brassneckedness.

[CropleyWasGod]

The sun are masters at positioning themselves with the way the wind is blowing, full of hypocrisy and brassneckedness.

Let's not forget that Blair and Murdoch were pals in 2003. Now, if we are to believe gossip, they're not so, because of the alleged closeness of TB and the then-Mrs.Murdoch.

[Holmesdale Hibs]

Given our governmennt currently is committed to respecting the will of parliament, you could say it already has. We would probably be fighting in syria just now otherwise

Good point, and agree we probably would be in Syria now if Iraq hadn't happened.

[JeMeSouviens]

The thing I don't get (and have never got) is what TB got or even expected to get out of cosying up to do whatever Bush & the Neocons wanted? What does the UK get from the US that France or Germany, who both opposed Iraq to varying degrees, don't?

:confused:

[Future17]

The thing I don't get (and have never got) is what TB got or even expected to get out of cosying up to do whatever Bush & the Neocons wanted? What does the UK get from the US that France or Germany, who both opposed Iraq to varying degrees, don't?

:confused:

I've heard a few theories mentioned. The most popular one is probably that he was preparing for life after the role of PM. The gratitude of the USA establishment did wonders for his position and bank balance.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

The thing I don't get (and have never got) is what TB got or even expected to get out of cosying up to do whatever Bush & the Neocons wanted? What does the UK get from the US that France or Germany, who both opposed Iraq to varying degrees, don't?

:confused:


Its a good question. With blair, i always think there is a whiff of some pseudo religious messiah complex - that he felt he was on some divine mission or something.

Equally though, i wouldnt easily dismiss the special relationship, amd given how more than a few us congressman are agitating to get a trade deal done with the uk asap, it could prove to be important in the current situation.

Im sure there is a lot of benefits behind the scenes, but it is a good question?

Maybe he did have some sort of fantasies of being this churchillian figure standing alone with the usa.

[PeeJay]

The thing I don't get (and have never got) is what TB got or even expected to get out of cosying up to do whatever Bush & the Neocons wanted? What does the UK get from the US that France or Germany, who both opposed Iraq to varying degrees, don't?

:confused:

If I recall, at the time, there was some talk about Blair and the UK sticking with the USA to ensure that Bush didn't do anything "too out-of-the-box": the USA was going to war whether "we" went with them or not. I think Blair thought the UK could act as a brake on Bush's runaway truck ... the intentions were good, I guess.

[BroxburnHibee]

Its a good question. With blair, i always think there is a whiff of some pseudo religious messiah complex - that he felt he was on some divine mission or something.

Equally though, i wouldnt easily dismiss the special relationship, amd given how more than a few us congressman are agitating to get a trade deal done with the uk asap, it could prove to be important in the current situation.

Im sure there is a lot of benefits behind the scenes, but it is a good question?

Maybe he did have some sort of fantasies of being this churchillian figure standing alone with the usa.

It's a good point about his religious beliefs.

Blair is a deeply religious person and Alistair Campbell did his best to keep it quiet.

You have to wonder why.

[High-On-Hibs]

Notice neither the Scotsman or the Record made any references to Chilcot on their front page today. Would have absolutely nothing to do with their misplaced loyalties 13 years ago of course.

[RyeSloan]

Notice neither the Scotsman or the Record made any references to Chilcot on their front page today. Would have absolutely nothing to do with their misplaced loyalties 13 years ago of course.

Eh? The Scotsman basically had the whole front page on it. Huge picture of Blair and a headline of Chilcot Inquiry delivers damning verdict...

[marinello59]

Eh? The Scotsman basically had the whole front page on it. Huge picture of Blair and a headline of Chilcot Inquiry delivers damning verdict...

Apart from that though, nothing.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Apart from that though, nothing.

High on hibs comes across as quite an exciteable guy