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hibby6270
30-06-2016, 03:06 PM
I recall Celtic using this recently but can't remember if it was when Lennon was in charge. Hope it wasn't. Never been a big fan of any team utilising it, so if NL does use it, what's everybody's thoughts?

Good thing or bad thing.

I'll start by saying - BAD!!

Smartie
30-06-2016, 03:13 PM
I hate it.

Can't remember which pundit it was but I remember them saying "I'm yet to see a zone score a goal".

The best defensive marking system I ever remember hearing about at corners was the 80s Liverpool side. 2 men left up the park, a man on each post and the rest man for man.

The logic was that the other team would have to keep 3 back to deal with their 2. That left space in the box and they would always fancy their chances at dealing with the cross with the box never being too congested. And the men on the posts would be useful if for any reason they lost the header. And they carried a bigger threat of scoring more goals on the break.

Anyone remember the cheer that went up when Duffy waved a man up the park in his first game in charge? We'd had years of every man coming back for corners under Miller. Personally I always thought that that invited pressure and made it far harder to clear your lines and get out.

Sammy7nil
30-06-2016, 08:08 PM
I hate it.

Can't remember which pundit it was but I remember them saying "I'm yet to see a zone score a goal".

The best defensive marking system I ever remember hearing about at corners was the 80s Liverpool side. 2 men left up the park, a man on each post and the rest man for man.

The logic was that the other team would have to keep 3 back to deal with their 2. That left space in the box and they would always fancy their chances at dealing with the cross with the box never being too congested. And the men on the posts would be useful if for any reason they lost the header. And they carried a bigger threat of scoring more goals on the break.

Anyone remember the cheer that went up when Duffy waved a man up the park in his first game in charge? We'd had years of every man coming back for corners under Miller. Personally I always thought that that invited pressure and made it far harder to clear your lines and get out.

Leave 8 up the park and the opposition would have no one to take the corner.

MWHIBBIES
30-06-2016, 08:10 PM
Both work just fine if executed properly. Both are rubbish if executed badly.

bod
30-06-2016, 08:12 PM
like every marking system, if you don't concede then it works if you do it doesnt

nonshinyfinish
30-06-2016, 08:55 PM
Both work just fine if executed properly. Both are rubbish if executed badly.

Spot on. Often when pundits slate zonal marking they should really be slating incompetent zonal marking.

Watch early 90s AC Milan and then tell me that zonal marking doesn't work.

eastterrace
30-06-2016, 09:17 PM
I recall Celtic using this recently but can't remember if it was when Lennon was in charge. Hope it wasn't. Never been a big fan of any team utilising it, so if NL does use it, what's everybody's thoughts? Good thing or bad thing. I'll start by saying - BAD!! sure it was Gordon strachan who preferred it , but I might be wrong could have been Neil Lennon

lyonhibs
30-06-2016, 10:10 PM
Space can't score a goal but a man can is a summary of my opinion on the matter

Baader
30-06-2016, 11:24 PM
Anyone remember the cheer that went up when Duffy waved a man up the park in his first game in charge? We'd had years of every man coming back for corners under Miller. Personally I always thought that that invited pressure and made it far harder to clear your lines and get out.

Yes I remember that clearly. One of the few cheers Duffy probably got.

I also remember the jeers when Kevin McCallister was waved back into his own penalty box by Miller to defend corners...

swindonhibs
01-07-2016, 07:08 AM
Interesting topic. I play Defence in American football, probably (?) where the concept of zonal defence originates from, and we have a mix of 'man' and 'zonal' schemes depending on the play that is called. Both have the same responsibilities as footy where you either cover a man (man mark) or are responsible for a zone or area.
Trust me that it's much harder to cover a zone than a man as long as you are evenly matched up with a similar athlete. The benefit of zonal marking however, and this rings true with footy also, is that if played correctly then you should have better options elsewhere; either leaving bodies up the pitch to counter or, in American football, more bodies to attack the ball carrier.
Slightly off topic but what the heck.

mjhibby
01-07-2016, 07:28 AM
Interesting topic. I play Defence in American football, probably (?) where the concept of zonal defence originates from, and we have a mix of 'man' and 'zonal' schemes depending on the play that is called. Both have the same responsibilities as footy where you either cover a man (man mark) or are responsible for a zone or area.
Trust me that it's much harder to cover a zone than a man as long as you are evenly matched up with a similar athlete. The benefit of zonal marking however, and this rings true with footy also, is that if played correctly then you should have better options elsewhere; either leaving bodies up the pitch to counter or, in American football, more bodies to attack the ball carrier.
Slightly off topic but what the heck.

I'm not bothered what system we play as long as it keeps the ball out of our net. The def mid guy is one of the most important positions and it was noticeable how safer the defence looked with Bartley there. The semi and final summer up our season. In the semi we were second best but due to conrad got through. Like Falkirk in reverse. The final we were the better team but from few attempts der Hun scored twice and hit the post. Maybe Stubbs was right and we were unlucky. I hope Lennon does make us very hard to score against but the stats show we were ten to 15 goals fewer than we needed. Over to you Neil. No problem.

Spudster
01-07-2016, 10:37 AM
I hate it.

The best defensive marking system I ever remember hearing about at corners was the 80s Liverpool side. 2 men left up the park, a man on each post and the rest man for man.

The logic was that the other team would have to keep 3 back to deal with their 2. That left space in the box and they would always fancy their chances at dealing with the cross with the box never being too congested. And the men on the posts would be useful if for any reason they lost the header. And they carried a bigger threat of scoring more goals on the break.

Anyone remember the cheer that went up when Duffy waved a man up the park in his first game in charge? We'd had years of every man coming back for corners under Miller. Personally I always thought that that invited pressure and made it far harder to clear your lines and get out.

I'd worry if we had:
1 GK, 2 on the posts and 2 up top. That only leaves 6 to man mark.
I remember we left 2 up top in the CIS final, the commentator was pretty shocked. Having Rob Jones defend corners was like having 3 extra back there mind you.

BigT-Hibeez
02-07-2016, 07:25 AM
I hate it.

Can't remember which pundit it was but I remember them saying "I'm yet to see a zone score a goal".

The best defensive marking system I ever remember hearing about at corners was the 80s Liverpool side. 2 men left up the park, a man on each post and the rest man for man.

The logic was that the other team would have to keep 3 back to deal with their 2. That left space in the box and they would always fancy their chances at dealing with the cross with the box never being too congested. And the men on the posts would be useful if for any reason they lost the header. And they carried a bigger threat of scoring more goals on the break.

Anyone remember the cheer that went up when Duffy waved a man up the park in his first game in charge? We'd had years of every man coming back for corners under Miller. Personally I always thought that that invited pressure and made it far harder to clear your lines and get out.

Fergie did the same at man U

NORTHERNHIBBY
02-07-2016, 08:19 AM
The defence needs to keep switched on and concentrate for 90 minutes. More important than any system.

Geo_1875
04-07-2016, 02:49 PM
Man marking at set plays can cause havoc as can be seen from the amount of pushing and pulling as defenders follow their man around the box. You can see the panic in their eyes if they lose contact for a split second. If referees had the bottle to apply the rules of the game 9 out of 10 corners would result in a penalty.

ekhibee
04-07-2016, 05:51 PM
Iceland played a zonal system in the Euros, but the important thing is to stick to it rigidly. They didn't against France and paid the price, although in the long run they were probably just beaten by the better team.