Where the blame really lies.

[Galileo47]

Where the blame really lies.


I have no problem with the email. As a Club we are doing exactly what we should be doing. The pitch invasion was of course disappointing and I hope the worst offenders will continue to receive the appropriate punishment.

However a section of the media have already decided that Hibs as a club were guilty and should be punished. Now there appears to be an acceptance in some quarters here that we will be punished for the pitch invasion. Why?

It is important to reiterate that Hibs were not responsible for the security arrangements. That responsibility belongs solely to the SFA. It is obvious that in their pre-match planning a scenario which included Hibs winning with a very late goal was never envisaged. It is also clear that the great majority of Police were stationed at or outside the Rangers end in anticipation of control being required there.

I trust and am confident that our Board have already examined our legal position and will prepare an appropriate response to whatever the outcome of the Independent Enquiry is.

[Blaster]

Whether we like it or not fans broke the rules by entering the field of play. 99.9% were with good intentions but it's still against the rules

We need to take our punishment on the chin and get on with it. But questions need to be answered too about security and the rangers fans breaches

[Onion]

Where the blame really lies.


I have no problem with the email. As a Club we are doing exactly what we should be doing. The pitch invasion was of course disappointing and I hope the worst offenders will continue to receive the appropriate punishment.

However a section of the media have already decided that Hibs as a club were guilty and should be punished. Now there appears to be an acceptance in some quarters here that we will be punished for the pitch invasion. Why?

It is important to reiterate that Hibs were not responsible for the security arrangements. That responsibility belongs solely to the SFA. It is obvious that in their pre-match planning a scenario which included Hibs winning with a very late goal was never envisaged. It is also clear that the great majority of Police were stationed at or outside the Rangers end in anticipation of control being required there.

I trust and am confident that our Board have already examined our legal position and will prepare an appropriate response to whatever the outcome of the Independent Enquiry is.

Had the policing been adequate, none of this would have happened. Yes, the IC could load all the blame onto Hibs and Hibs fans and expect more restraint from thousands of excited football fans many of whom had been drinking from early doors. In which case, they might as well dispense with the security and services of Police Scotland except as a response to a full blown riot. IMO Hibs as a club have done everything properly, as you'd expect of a top class club. Sevco have shamed themselves in this whole affair. Fully expect the SFA and police to get the brunt of criticism in the IC report - if it wasn't for the fact that the SFA will be paying for said report !!

[leither17]

Had there been any punishment handed out to any other Scottish teams in recent times for pitch invasions?

[1875STEVE]

Had there been any punishment handed out to any other Scottish teams in recent times for pitch invasions?


http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/spfl-charge-motherwell-over-play-7330468#bJpce1ADvdGxk4IP.97

[Waxy]

The blame lies at around 6 to 12 idiots in the Hibs support who decided to cause agro seconds after we'd won the Scottish cup. The club and the rest of our support shouldnt be punished for the acts of these idiots but these idiots should be taking a long hard look at themselves and ask themselves the question "Do i need professional help?"

[Bristolhibby]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/spfl-charge-motherwell-over-play-7330468#bJpce1ADvdGxk4IP.97

But the security in that instance lies with the home team, Motherwell. So rightly ticked off.

Just like Hearts got in bother for the Casper incident and the carer attacking Lennon.

Cup Final arrangements and security was the responsibility of the SFA. I hope they are lining themselves up for a fine to themselves.

J

[schinkenotto]

I have received a reply from The Herald to a complaint that I made about a headline and report blaming Hibs supporters solely for the trouble and the Complaints Editor has admitted that "on reflection" it should have been framed differently.He has given me the opportunity to resolve my complaint by writing a letter for publication,but I'm not sure this would help and I'm reluctant to have my full address published(as The Herald require) as I'd need to check my personal and property insurance,given the tendency of "ra peepil" to object to anyone daring to criticise that disgraceful institution.

[givescotlandfreedom]

I have received a reply from The Herald to a complaint that I made about a headline and report blaming Hibs supporters solely for the trouble and the Complaints Editor has admitted that "on reflection" it should have been framed differently.He has given me the opportunity to resolve my complaint by writing a letter for publication,but I'm not sure this would help and I'm reluctant to have my full address published(as The Herald require) as I'd need to check my personal and property insurance,given the tendency of "ra peepil" to object to anyone daring to criticise that disgraceful institution.

I've seen letters in the paper before with 'address supplied' where presumably the writer has asked not to have it published.

[silverhibee]

But the security in that instance lies with the home team, Motherwell. So rightly ticked off.

Just like Hearts got in bother for the Casper incident and the carer attacking Lennon.

Cup Final arrangements and security was the responsibility of the SFA. I hope they are lining themselves up for a fine to themselves.

J

What punishment did they get for these incidents.

[O'Rourke3]

I have received a reply from The Herald to a complaint that I made about a headline and report blaming Hibs supporters solely for the trouble and the Complaints Editor has admitted that "on reflection" it should have been framed differently.He has given me the opportunity to resolve my complaint by writing a letter for publication,but I'm not sure this would help and I'm reluctant to have my full address published(as The Herald require) as I'd need to check my personal and property insurance,given the tendency of "ra peepil" to object to anyone daring to criticise that disgraceful institution.

In writing the letter ask for name and address withheld. Make it clear in the covering letter why you are requesting this - even put it in the letter. If the Herald doesn't print or uses your address and trouble happens you know where to go for compo.....

[Nicho87]

They may slap our wrists and give us fines, but they'll never take our winners medals.

[Roxyhibee]

I have received a reply from The Herald to a complaint that I made about a headline and report blaming Hibs supporters solely for the trouble and the Complaints Editor has admitted that "on reflection" it should have been framed differently.He has given me the opportunity to resolve my complaint by writing a letter for publication,but I'm not sure this would help and I'm reluctant to have my full address published(as The Herald require) as I'd need to check my personal and property insurance,given the tendency of "ra peepil" to object to anyone daring to criticise that disgraceful institution.

Do not get your name and address published man. That is utter bull***** - they can easily check your details are genuine and print something to that effect to keep your anonymity.

[Carheenlea]

I mentioned in a thread previously that a Rangers supporting friend who was at their semi final against Celtic had said that nobody was going to be getting on the pitch at the end of that game.
The policing and stewarding was hopelessly inadequate, and it is that which will surely be the focus of an independent investigation into events following the full time whistle.
I expect us to escape with nothing much more than a suspended fine.

[Jack]

I have received a reply from The Herald to a complaint that I made about a headline and report blaming Hibs supporters solely for the trouble and the Complaints Editor has admitted that "on reflection" it should have been framed differently.He has given me the opportunity to resolve my complaint by writing a letter for publication,but I'm not sure this would help and I'm reluctant to have my full address published(as The Herald require) as I'd need to check my personal and property insurance,given the tendency of "ra peepil" to object to anyone daring to criticise that disgraceful institution.

Make a complaint to Independent Press Standards Organisation (IPSO).

[Beefster]

Make a complaint to Independent Press Standards Organisation (IPSO).

The Herald have basically upheld his complaint and given him the opportunity to reply. I'm not sure it's worthy of escalation in the grand scheme of things.

[Kato]

Where the blame really lies.


I have no problem with the email. As a Club we are doing exactly what we should be doing. The pitch invasion was of course disappointing and I hope the worst offenders will continue to receive the appropriate punishment.

However a section of the media have already decided that Hibs as a club were guilty and should be punished. Now there appears to be an acceptance in some quarters here that we will be punished for the pitch invasion. Why?

It is important to reiterate that Hibs were not responsible for the security arrangements. That responsibility belongs solely to the SFA. It is obvious that in their pre-match planning a scenario which included Hibs winning with a very late goal was never envisaged. It is also clear that the great majority of Police were stationed at or outside the Rangers end in anticipation of control being required there.

I trust and am confident that our Board have already examined our legal position and will prepare an appropriate response to whatever the outcome of the Independent Enquiry is.


The club aren't to blame for anything. It really is that simple.

[Kojock]

Where the blame really lies.


I have no problem with the email. As a Club we are doing exactly what we should be doing. The pitch invasion was of course disappointing and I hope the worst offenders will continue to receive the appropriate punishment.

However a section of the media have already decided that Hibs as a club were guilty and should be punished. Now there appears to be an acceptance in some quarters here that we will be punished for the pitch invasion. Why?

It is important to reiterate that Hibs were not responsible for the security arrangements. That responsibility belongs solely to the SFA. It is obvious that in their pre-match planning a scenario which included Hibs winning with a very late goal was never envisaged. It is also clear that the great majority of Police were stationed at or outside the Rangers end in anticipation of control being required there.

I trust and am confident that our Board have already examined our legal position and will prepare an appropriate response to whatever the outcome of the Independent Enquiry is.

It's patently obvious where the blame lies. If Hibs fans hadn't entered the pitch then we wouldn't be having this discussion. Why blame Police/stewards it wasn't them that destroyed the goal posts or tried to fight with Rangers fans.

I bought a season ticket on the proviso that the money would be used to strengthen the team not to pay some SFA fine cause folk couldn't stay in their seat.

[Vini1875]

The club should not be punished, because the club have done all it possibly can to ensure wrong doers have been dealt with. Individuals broke the rules and ought to be dealt with by the law. I think some sort of suspended fine/good behaviour order or whatever could be placed against the club and in the event that our fans do something similar then action could be taken. I would hope that Hibs would fight any attempt to punish the club.

[SJM]

It's patently obvious where the blame lies. If Hibs fans hadn't entered the pitch then we wouldn't be having this discussion. Why blame Police/stewards it wasn't them that destroyed the goal posts or tried to fight with Rangers fans.

I bought a season ticket on the proviso that the money would be used to strengthen the team not to pay some SFA fine cause folk couldn't stay in their seat.

Don't you buy one to support your team and get it a wee bit cheaper in a regular seat?:confused:

[hibs0666]

Had there been any punishment handed out to any other Scottish teams in recent times for pitch invasions?

That's not the issue - it is having a go at hun players that we will get battered for. And going paggering. And criminal damage.

[Kojock]

Don't you buy one to support your team and get it a wee bit cheaper in a regular seat?:confused:

Don't know why you are confused. All the season ticket sales literature state that all monies recieved will be invested in the playing squad.

[Galahibby]

I have received a reply from The Herald to a complaint that I made about a headline and report blaming Hibs supporters solely for the trouble and the Complaints Editor has admitted that "on reflection" it should have been framed differently.He has given me the opportunity to resolve my complaint by writing a letter for publication,but I'm not sure this would help and I'm reluctant to have my full address published(as The Herald require) as I'd need to check my personal and property insurance,given the tendency of "ra peepil" to object to anyone daring to criticise that disgraceful institution.

Just put somebody else's address on it. You must know a Jambo you don't like? :wink:

[schinkenotto]

The Herald have basically upheld his complaint and given him the opportunity to reply. I'm not sure it's worthy of escalation in the grand scheme of things.

On reflection,you're probably right but I feel so strongly about this that I haven't quite made up my mind!

[schinkenotto]

Just put somebody else's address on it. You must know a Jambo you don't like? :wink:

Plenty!

[schinkenotto]

Make a complaint to Independent Press Standards Organisation (IPSO).
I threatened that in my initial letter,but I think he's dealt with my complaint appropriately.I'm in a dilemma,as I want to defend my team but don't want to make things worse as I'm sure that Leeann will be handling it in the best way all round.However I'm disgusted with the Rangers response and the attitude of the Glasgow centric press and the BBC.

[lucky]

The stewards and police must take some responsibility as after the initial burst of fans they opened the gates to allow fans onto the pitch. But the reality is there is no excuse for invading the pitch. As has been said in other threads those who engaged in acts of violence and deliberate acts of vandalism will have to answer for their actions.

[barcahibs]

Where the blame really lies.


I have no problem with the email. As a Club we are doing exactly what we should be doing. The pitch invasion was of course disappointing and I hope the worst offenders will continue to receive the appropriate punishment.

However a section of the media have already decided that Hibs as a club were guilty and should be punished. Now there appears to be an acceptance in some quarters here that we will be punished for the pitch invasion. Why?

It is important to reiterate that Hibs were not responsible for the security arrangements. That responsibility belongs solely to the SFA. It is obvious that in their pre-match planning a scenario which included Hibs winning with a very late goal was never envisaged. It is also clear that the great majority of Police were stationed at or outside the Rangers end in anticipation of control being required there.

I trust and am confident that our Board have already examined our legal position and will prepare an appropriate response to whatever the outcome of the Independent Enquiry is.

Can't agree. Yes, the police should have done better but the ultimate fault lies with the people who chose to go on the pitch and especially with those who chose to go up to the sevco fans and try to cause trouble.

Amazingly most people are able to pass entire days without requiring a line of police on constant vigil to prevent them breaking the law.

[greenlex]

The stewards and police must take some responsibility as after the initial burst of fans they opened the gates to allow fans onto the pitch. But the reality is there is no excuse for invading the pitch. As has been said in other threads those who engaged in acts of violence and deliberate acts of vandalism will have to answer for their actions.
They opened the gates as here was a safety issue with the numbers following the initial burst.

[Beefster]

On reflection,you're probably right but I feel so strongly about this that I haven't quite made up my mind!

Given the Herald's response, I think you'd have a struggle on your hands getting IPSO to do anything. If they had ignored/dismissed you maybe (and even then, that's not certain).

[CentreLine]

I threatened that in my initial letter,but I think he's dealt with my complaint appropriately.I'm in a dilemma,as I want to defend my team but don't want to make things worse as I'm sure that Leeann will be handling it in the best way all round.However I'm disgusted with the Rangers response and the attitude of the Glasgow centric press and the BBC.

Why not write back and tell him it was him and his journalists that got this wrong. It is only correct that he and the journalist correct it with an editorial comment, perhaps on top of an article by the original journalist. Point out that you are not a journalist. This was their error and it is their job to correct it, not the job of an untrained correspondent?

[Onion]

Can't agree. Yes, the police should have done better but the ultimate fault lies with the people who chose to go on the pitch and especially with those who chose to go up to the sevco fans and try to cause trouble.

Amazingly most people are able to pass entire days without requiring a line of police on constant vigil to prevent them breaking the law.

You're trying to look at it dispassionately in the cold light of day. If you were there you'd see that a lot of normally sensible people just lost their minds for a few minutes and did things they would normally dream of. Not talking about the nutters that just wanted a fight, but dads, sons, daughters all running around a football pitch mindlessly hugging and kissing anything that moved (and didn't move). Our group had more restraint, but can fully understand why some chose to run onto the pitch. The police should have been there to stop them.

[schinkenotto]

Why not write back and tell him it was him and his journalists that got this wrong. It is only correct that he and the journalist correct it with an editorial comment, perhaps on top of an article by the original journalist. Point out that you are not a journalist. This was their error and it is their job to correct it, not the job of an untrained correspondent?
I think you're probably right.I've now said to The Herald's Complaints Editor that I think that it would be more appropriate for the correction to be by the paper and appear on the Corrections page.

[Geo_1875]

I find the imbalance in reporting of the day quite disturbing. Even now when the young lad from Ratho has been sentenced for his crime the BBC report tags on the line about thousands of Hibs fans and a number of The Rangers fans invading the pitch. They make no attempt at even handed reporting. I think Hibs should play the The Rangers defence of it was only a tiny minority, barely even a handful, we never saw/heard a thing.

[CentreLine]

I think you're probably right.I've now said to The Herald's Complaints Editor that I think that it would be more appropriate for the correction to be by the paper and appear on the Corrections page.

Good luck 👍

[banarc7062]

Whether we like it or not fans broke the rules by entering the field of play. 99.9% were with good intentions but it's still against the rules

We need to take our punishment on the chin and get on with it. But questions need to be answered too about security and the rangers fans breaches

Always provided any punishment is appropriate and just and will be applied to ALL offenders. GGTTH:flag:

[Iain G]

You're trying to look at it dispassionately in the cold light of day. If you were there you'd see that a lot of normally sensible people just lost their minds for a few minutes and did things they would normally dream of. Not talking about the nutters that just wanted a fight, but dads, sons, daughters all running around a football pitch mindlessly hugging and kissing anything that moved (and didn't move). Our group had more restraint, but can fully understand why some chose to run onto the pitch. The police should have been there to stop them.

In the cold light of day, if our fans had stayed in their seats and celebrated there and not on the pitch then we would not be having this conversation.

[Kato]

In the cold light of day, if our fans had stayed in their seats and celebrated there and not on the pitch then we would not be having this conversation.

True dat.

[SquashedFrogg]

In the cold light of day, if our fans had stayed in their seats and celebrated there and not on the pitch then we would not be having this conversation.

Yeh, but where's the fun in that? :na na:

I really don't understand why the security arrangements were so poor. There was always the potential for a pitch invasion if we won. Especially in those dramatic circumstances. I would love to see the minutes from the security planning meeting prior to the cup final.

This is all being blown out of proportion IMO. We won - they lost. That's all that really matters.

[SquashedFrogg]

You're trying to look at it dispassionately in the cold light of day. If you were there you'd see that a lot of normally sensible people just lost their minds for a few minutes and did things they would normally dream of. Not talking about the nutters that just wanted a fight, but dads, sons, daughters all running around a football pitch mindlessly hugging and kissing anything that moved (and didn't move). Our group had more restraint, but can fully understand why some chose to run onto the pitch. The police should have been there to stop them.

Couldn't agree more with this :aok:

In theory the nutters who went looking for a fight at least had the decency to do it in a controlled environment this time? Better than out on the streets where anything goes. Well done the nutters I say... :cb

[hughio]

OP is right.

The security was the responsibility of SFA for this match.

They may therefore fine themselves and move on.

Not HFC's fault or even Sevco's.

[barcahibs]

You're trying to look at it dispassionately in the cold light of day. If you were there you'd see that a lot of normally sensible people just lost their minds for a few minutes and did things they would normally dream of. Not talking about the nutters that just wanted a fight, but dads, sons, daughters all running around a football pitch mindlessly hugging and kissing anything that moved (and didn't move). Our group had more restraint, but can fully understand why some chose to run onto the pitch. The police should have been there to stop them.

I was there though (although in the stand and not on the pitch :) )

I get that it was euphoria, and I get that 99.9% of the people in the pitch didn't even know there was trouble at the sevco end. But from where I was standing I could see the Hibs fans running to the Huns end, could see fighting, could see groups of fans kicking folk on the ground. At a time when I and the others around us should have felt nothing but euphoria my heart sank a tiny little bit because some of my own were letting me down. We stopped hugging, we stopped dancing, we stopped going mental because we were watching idiots fighting.

Even minutes later, when the police had eventually got things sorted and the majority if the sevco animals had been corralled back into their stand there was still a "Hibs fan" trying to get as close to them as possible waving his Irish tricolour.

No problem with Irish flags at our games, our name is Hibernian after all, but at that time and place that "fan" was only trying to do one thing with it. And, rightly or wrongly, it made me feel ashamed. Even right at the end a hardcore of "fans" only came off the pitch because of the booing from the rest of the support.

I've got no doubt that there were more sevco fans causing bother than Hibs fans, and I am outraged over the media handling of the whole affair, I even wish Hibs would come out and challenge some of the more outlandish claims. But the fact remains that if folk had stayed in the stands where they belong this wouldn't have happened and the whole experience would have been better.

No one has been able to explain to me the line of "Hibs fans" who at that moment in time chose to go and stand in front of the sevco support. I can't get my head around it.

But we're still the Scottish Cup holders :)