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Keith_M
12-06-2016, 07:57 AM
No, this is not an attempt at humour, I'm deadly serious.


Hundreds, if not thousands, of Russian Fans have gone to the Finals with the sole intent of causing mayhem. No doubt there are hooligans in the other supports but the behaviour of a large number of Russian Fans is way beyond acceptable.

What makes it worse is the Russian Government is currently behaving like Jim Traynor after the Cup Final and claiming their Fans are all sweet innocents and were provoked.

High-On-Hibs
12-06-2016, 08:03 AM
Nonsense. Their ******** to ok ratio is about on par with Englands. Most of the Russian fans that were moving towards the English fans were doing so because of some moron in their crowd who let off a fire cracker that sounded like an explosion. The English fans fought the Russian fans were looking for trouble and it all kicked off.

Keith_M
12-06-2016, 08:06 AM
Nonsense. Their ******** to ok ratio is about on par with Englands. Most of the Russian fans that were moving towards the English fans were doing so because of some moron in their crowd who let off a fire cracker that sounded like an explosion. The English fans fought the Russian fans were looking for trouble and it all kicked off.


Try to look beyond your prejudice and see what's happening.


Yes, there are England Fans looking for trouble but the Russians have gone beyond the pale and have already almost killed two people.

Dashing Bob S
12-06-2016, 08:11 AM
It won't happen. The violence will be constantly underreported for the reasons Tory Hibby expounded on another thread.

England fans will now be as good as gold till the Russians leave through tournament elimination. They will play the victims for a bit, then flex their muscles in the safety of numbers, indulging in racist bullying against civilians and attacking smaller mobs safe in the knowledge that the tougher boys have been expelled.

SkintHibby
12-06-2016, 08:11 AM
Try to look beyond your prejudice and see what's happening.


Yes, there are England Fans looking for trouble but the Russians have gone beyond the pale and have already almost killed two people.

Look beyond your predudice and the media propaganda and stop blaming it all on the Russians.

Everything bad in the world just now is those evil, nasty Russians.:rolleyes:

Finn2015
12-06-2016, 08:12 AM
It won't happen. The violence will be constantly underreported for the reasons Tory Hibby expounded on another thread.

England fans will now be as good as gold till the Russians leave through tournament elimination. They will play the victims for a bit, then flex their muscles in the safety of numbers, indulging in racist bullying against civilians and attacking smaller mobs safe in the knowledge that the tougher boys have been expelled.


Could almost be be talking about sevco there:thumbsup:

High-On-Hibs
12-06-2016, 08:13 AM
Try to look beyond your prejudice and see what's happening.


Yes, there are England Fans looking for trouble but the Russians have gone beyond the pale and have already almost killed two people.

You're the one being prejudice here, not me. Sadly, people's lives are almost always in danger when these kind of situations flare up. There's certainly a handful of far right and far left idiots on both sides looking to cause trouble. But the vast majority of people who get sucked into it are people who really want nothing to do with it (on both sides).

The British Media showed a very short clip of Russians fans crossing over into the English crowd, using the narrative that they were all looking to pagger. Absolutely no mention of the huge bang and the fear they must have felt at the time.

euro Hibby
12-06-2016, 08:15 AM
I am pretty sure from the video's seen that they are all at it, English, French and Russians. This was going to happen even before they played so if anyone gets banned it has to be both teams and that is not fair to the 90 % of fans who don't want any bother.

As has been said on here, if you don't want any trouble it is not that difficult to avoid. You just have to be prepared to back off and avoid going to places where you know there will be problems.

Newspapers are newspapers the world over. They say what they want to say.

Betty Boop
12-06-2016, 08:23 AM
Look beyond your predudice and the media propaganda and stop blaming it all on the Russians.

Everything bad in the world just now is those evil, nasty Russians.:rolleyes:

:top marks

The Baldmans Comb
12-06-2016, 08:24 AM
Russians and the English should both be thrown out.

Dreadful scenes but entirely predictable.

English were spouting their usual casual racism which is just engrained within their violent warped mentality and Russians were clearly well organised thugs.

Nothing will happen until someone dies though .

Dashing Bob S
12-06-2016, 08:25 AM
Could almost be be talking about sevco there:thumbsup:

Yes, there are obvious parallels, but only because all bullies behave in exactly the same manner. They strut around full of themselves in their boorish arrogance, then when somebody stands up to them, or they meet a bigger bully, they quickly embrace the role of victim. Individuals in this situation often (not always) learn from this, and grow into human beings who can assert themselves in life while respecting the rights and needs of others.

Unfortunately mobs are often different, particularly ones burdened with the notion of a supremacist culture. They tend to get stuck in the bully-victim-bully-victim cycle.

Rangers fans, Some England supporters, UKIP voters, Trump supporters all tend to carry that burden and exhibit that behaviour.

High-On-Hibs
12-06-2016, 08:27 AM
Yes, there are obvious parallels, but only because all bullies behave in exactly the same manner. They strut around full of themselves in their boorish arrogance, then when somebody stands up to them, or they meet a bigger bully, they quickly embrace the role of victim. Individuals in this situation often (not always) learn from this, and grow into human beings who can assert themselves in life while respecting the rights and needs of others.

Unfortunately mobs are often different, particularly ones burdened with the notion of a supremacist culture. They tend to get stuck in the bully-victim-bully-victim cycle.

Rangers fans, Some England supporters, UKIP voters, Trump supporters all tend to carry that burden and exhibit that behaviour.

Agreed. Although it's not just people on the right to be fair. Plenty on the left as well like to play the victimization card. It's a huge political tactic these days in almost all walks of life.

The Spaceman
12-06-2016, 08:28 AM
When I heard that bang my heart absolutely sunk, what a moron that supporter is for setting off a firecracker, could have easily caused mass panic.

GreenCastle
12-06-2016, 08:31 AM
It's not as easy as that.

There seems to be a mix of people fighting and that includes Local French ultras - that has been reported in 2 different host cities.

No alcohol on streets / an alcohol ban or drinking out plastic cups in bars would possibly help.

The U.K. has its fair share of idiots and it's not just English fans who are causing trouble - there are pictures of Scottish people who support sevco in England also (holding sevco flag).

The situation isn't simply one set of fans causing an issue.

Pretty Boy
12-06-2016, 08:34 AM
Playing England v Russia in Marseille was utter madness.

England fans have history there, both have to varying degrees a 'right wing' faction in their support and Marseilles is one of the most multicultural cities in Europe with substantial Jewish and Muslim communities, the Police are on high alert anyway and once the real troublemakers kick off everyone will be targetted including the boozed up 'lads' who seem more like idiots as opposed to 'hooligans'.

It's a shame because I'm sure the majority of England fans went over to enjoy a few beers in the sun and some football and now they are all being branded troublemakers because of the actions of a few intent on causing bother.

hibsbollah
12-06-2016, 08:36 AM
I think it's safe to say that a lot of the reports we will be reading this morning will be a mixture of exaggeration, cock measuring (I was in Marseille last night, it was like being in a war zone blah blah), blaming one sides ultras or another with no evidence for political purposes, and total fantasy.

The best thing I saw on Twitter last night was a response to Piers Morgan's tweet 'what's more humiliating and disgraceful than our English hooligans'?, someone replied 'hacking dead kids phones'. Beware phoney moral outrage.

Pretty Boy
12-06-2016, 08:40 AM
Also I'm wary of calling on teams to be thrown out for fans behaviour. It's not the players fault some fans can't behave themselves.

If we were thrown out the SC because a couple of idiots pushed the Rangers keeper there would be absolute outrage and rightly so.

Betty Boop
12-06-2016, 08:41 AM
https://twitter.com/FattusAntus/status/741607202780282880/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

:greengrin

Since90+2
12-06-2016, 08:45 AM
Also I'm wary of calling on teams to be thrown out for fans behaviour. It's not the players fault some fans can't behave themselves.

If we were thrown out the SC because a couple of idiots pushed the Rangers keeper there would be absolute outrage and rightly so.

What has happened in Marseille is on another planet compared to what happened at Hampden. The two are not in any way comparable.

Pretty Boy
12-06-2016, 08:47 AM
What has happened in Marseille is on another planet compared to what happened at Hampden. The two are not in any way comparable.
Of course that's correct.

I still fundementally disagree with players, managers, backroom staff and decent fans being punished for the actions of idiots.

I'm not sure what the answer is but throwing teams out the tournament isn't it imo. In fact I'd go as far as to say it would probably intensify the bother as fans on both sides would go absolutely mental.

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calumhibee1
12-06-2016, 08:48 AM
Also I'm wary of calling on teams to be thrown out for fans behaviour. It's not the players fault some fans can't behave themselves.

If we were thrown out the SC because a couple of idiots pushed the Rangers keeper there would be absolute outrage and rightly so.
I agree with this. As people have pointed out, these folk are here with the sole intent of causing mayhem at the tournament. I'd be surprised if the involvement of their country really made much odds as to whether they hung around or not.

Ronniekirk
12-06-2016, 08:49 AM
No, this is not an attempt at humour, I'm deadly serious.


Hundreds, if not thousands, of Russian Fans have gone to the Finals with the sole intent of causing mayhem. No doubt there are hooligans in the other supports but the behaviour of a large number of Russian Fans is way beyond acceptable.

What makes it worse is the Russian Government is currently behaving like Jim Traynor after the Cup Final and claiming their Fans are all sweet innocents and were provoked.

Thought that was you Putin the Boot in No easy Political solution to this but someone somewhere needs to get key people together and come up with Solutions
The situation has got progressively worse day by day so whatever Police strategy and tactics have been up to now isn't working
No way should any tournament be allowed to take place in Russia though after this Fans should make it clear they wont travel that may help exercise the minds of those who need to make these decisions





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ben johnson
12-06-2016, 08:49 AM
Russians not playing the game here. Instead of congregating in a large intimidating group and singing about the 2nd WW they seem to actually want to fight. When will they learn to bounce up and down and throw chairs at rival fans. Those Russians as Boney M warned us.

hibs#1
12-06-2016, 08:59 AM
https://twitter.com/FattusAntus/status/741607202780282880/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

:greengrin


Excellent

High-On-Hibs
12-06-2016, 09:09 AM
Thought that was you Putin the Boot in No easy Political solution to this but someone somewhere needs to get key people together and come up with Solutions
The situation has got progressively worse day by day so whatever Police strategy and tactics have been up to now isn't working
No way should any tournament be allowed to take place in Russia though after this Fans should make it clear they wont travel that may help exercise the minds of those who need to make these decisions





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If you're basing your view of tournaments never being allowed to take place in Russia as a result of the violence. Then by that logic, no tournament should ever be allowed to take place in England, or France for that matter. We'd be as well just banning tournaments world wide.

capitals_finest
12-06-2016, 09:10 AM
Yes, there are obvious parallels, but only because all bullies behave in exactly the same manner. They strut around full of themselves in their boorish arrogance, then when somebody stands up to them, or they meet a bigger bully, they quickly embrace the role of victim. Individuals in this situation often (not always) learn from this, and grow into human beings who can assert themselves in life while respecting the rights and needs of others.

Unfortunately mobs are often different, particularly ones burdened with the notion of a supremacist culture. They tend to get stuck in the bully-victim-bully-victim cycle.

Rangers fans, Some England supporters, UKIP voters, Trump supporters all tend to carry that burden and exhibit that behaviour.

Bang on here again DBS. Excellent post :top marks

Pretty Boy
12-06-2016, 09:17 AM
I see there's now reports on Twitter that Poland and Northern Ireland fans are involved in 'running battles' in Nice.

Another game that was always going to attract bother. There was some pretty poor scenes when they played in Belfast a while back.

Finn2015
12-06-2016, 09:19 AM
Yes, there are obvious parallels, but only because all bullies behave in exactly the same manner. They strut around full of themselves in their boorish arrogance, then when somebody stands up to them, or they meet a bigger bully, they quickly embrace the role of victim. Individuals in this situation often (not always) learn from this, and grow into human beings who can assert themselves in life while respecting the rights and needs of others.

Unfortunately mobs are often different, particularly ones burdened with the notion of a supremacist culture. They tend to get stuck in the bully-victim-bully-victim cycle.

Rangers fans, Some England supporters, UKIP voters, Trump supporters all tend to carry that burden and exhibit that behaviour.

Could not agree more Bob, bang on

Onion
12-06-2016, 09:25 AM
Playing England v Russia in Marseille was utter madness.

England fans have history there, both have to varying degrees a 'right wing' faction in their support and Marseilles is one of the most multicultural cities in Europe with substantial Jewish and Muslim communities, the Police are on high alert anyway and once the real troublemakers kick off everyone will be targetted including the boozed up 'lads' who seem more like idiots as opposed to 'hooligans'.

It's a shame because I'm sure the majority of England fans went over to enjoy a few beers in the sun and some football and now they are all being branded troublemakers because of the actions of a few intent on causing bother.

That may well be true but high time England fans started self-policing their hooligans. There is much that the vast majority can do to identify, reduce and perhaps eradicate the idiots who bring shame to their country and just cause bother for everyone else. But you sense the majority are quite happy to accommodate their nutters, hooligans and extremists in the same way Sevco revels in its colourful history and heritage.

GreenCastle
12-06-2016, 09:30 AM
I see there's now reports on Twitter that Poland and Northern Ireland fans are involved in 'running battles' in Nice.

Another game that was always going to attract bother. There was some pretty poor scenes when they played in Belfast a while back.

If you read lots of the reports - it's the Nice Ultras rather than the Irish and Polish who seemingly were getting on well.

Pretty Boy
12-06-2016, 09:31 AM
That may well be true but high time England fans started self-policing their hooligans. There is much that the vast majority can do to identify, reduce and perhaps eradicate the idiots who bring shame to their country and just cause bother for everyone else. But you sense the majority are quite happy to accommodate their nutters, hooligans and extremists in the same way Sevco revels in its colourful history and heritage.
I think a large part of the problem is a lot of the decent fans feel, rightly or wrongly, a bit victimised.

There was guy on the BBC this morning from the England Supporters Federation (or something like that anyway) saying that rather than targetting the trouble makers the Police are just indiscriminately letting of tear gas and firing water cannons. That tactic is probably going to harden the decent fans against the Police as opposed to others within their own support.

If the reports of bother in Nice are accurate as well it maybe suggests the Police strategy isn't working. I'm not sure what answer is as with the numbers involved banning public drinking or similar isn't really enforceable.

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hibsbollah
12-06-2016, 09:39 AM
I think a large part of the problem is a lot of the decent fans feel, rightly or wrongly, a bit victimised.

There was guy on the BBC this morning from the England Supporters Federation (or something like that anyway) saying that rather than targetting the trouble makers the Police are just indiscriminately letting of tear gas and firing water cannons. That tactic is probably going to harden the decent fans against the Police as opposed to others within their own support.

If the reports of bother in Nice are accurate as well it maybe suggests the Police strategy isn't working. I'm not sure what answer is as with the numbers involved banning public drinking or similar isn't really enforceable.

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The French riot police that are en situ are semi military. A very different breed to the English riot policeman. Firing tear gas is actually them being restrained; if they got waded into the English (or Russian or French) fans there would be plenty of injuries and it wouldn't be amongst the police. So the fans complaining about 'heavy handed policing' should thank their stars they're not being baton charged. The British copper responsible for liaison with the French cops said the same.

emerald green
12-06-2016, 09:48 AM
As if the police and security services in France haven't got enough to contend with, and worry about, right now without having to deal with all this.

Pretty Boy
12-06-2016, 09:50 AM
The French riot police that are en situ are semi military. A very different breed to the English riot policeman. Firing tear gas is actually them being restrained; if they got waded into the English (or Russian or French) fans there would be plenty of injuries and it wouldn't be amongst the police. So the fans complaining about 'heavy handed policing' should thank their stars they're not being baton charged. The British copper responsible for liaison with the French cops said the same.
I think that's, to an extent, the crux of the matter. The French Police are being far harder on behaviour a lot of the England fans are used to getting away with.

Youtube is full of videos of English fans (club and coubtry) standing in pubs, streets, concourses etc chucking beer about, jumping around in a big group singing and just being loud and vaguely aggressive. The Police here often turn a blind eye.

It's something a lot of Brits seem to forget when they go abroad, that they aren't in the UK anymore and they are unable or unwilling to adjust their behaviour accordingly.

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Hibs90
12-06-2016, 09:57 AM
UEFA has opened disciplinary proceedings against #Russia for crowd disturbances and racist behaviour following violence at #Marseille

GreenCastle
12-06-2016, 09:58 AM
UEFA has opened disciplinary proceedings against #Russia for crowd disturbances and racist behaviour following violence at #Marseille

This happened in the stadium so this is why this has happened.

Outside the stadium isn't UEFAs issue.

High-On-Hibs
12-06-2016, 10:00 AM
UEFA has opened disciplinary proceedings against #Russia for crowd disturbances and racist behaviour following violence at #Marseille

If they're only opening up disciplinary proceedings against Russia and Russia alone. Then it's a political farce.

Hibs90
12-06-2016, 10:03 AM
If they're only opening up disciplinary proceedings against Russia and Russia alone. Then it's a political farce.

UEFA don't have the power over what goes on outside the ground.

High-On-Hibs
12-06-2016, 10:04 AM
UEFA don't have the power over what goes on outside the ground.

Both sides were quite clearly at it inside the ground.

essexhibee
12-06-2016, 10:10 AM
Been horrendous scenes.

If I was an England fan I would not be on the streets no way. These Russians are clearly well trained men who know how to fight....not just drunk dave after ten pints of Stella. They have no qualms about kicking someone to within an inch of their life. Very scary stuff.

Nutmegged
12-06-2016, 10:16 AM
Nonsense. Their ******** to ok ratio is about on par with Englands. Most of the Russian fans that were moving towards the English fans were doing so because of some moron in their crowd who let off a fire cracker that sounded like an explosion. The English fans fought the Russian fans were looking for trouble and it all kicked off.
How do you even know that? Sounds like you concocted that uo in your own head

Bostonhibby
12-06-2016, 10:18 AM
Could almost be be talking about sevco there:thumbsup:

The UN are sending a peacekeeping force of the rangers fans just as soon as they have fitted them all out in uniforms from sports direct and orange safety hats with red hands emblazoned across them.

They will be on site as soon as they have finished saving Gotham city from the clutches of that batman character.

Bostonhibby
12-06-2016, 10:30 AM
My sons been in Marseille all week, not for football, he flew back last night. He said straight away to me that whilst the England fans have been involved in quite a bit of drunken trouble most of the week they will be completely out of their depth when they cross paths with the Russians who seemed to be going about in larger groups, not singing much,a bit less of a rabble and much harder looking, just an impression but the phrase was boys against men!

He also said the French police weren't doing any softly softly stuff with the England fans, they were wading straight in. He supports Hibs and Scotland so no reason to spin it in England fans favour.

High-On-Hibs
12-06-2016, 10:32 AM
How do you even know that? Sounds like you concocted that uo in your own head

How does the OP or yourself know that your own takes on events are so accurate? Everybody "concocts" their own story of events when they don't have all of the factual information.

hibbysam
12-06-2016, 10:34 AM
You cannot chuck Russia out because there 'fans' cannot behave themselves. I'd be far more inclined to take the World Cup off them in two years time as quite clearly it is an accident waiting to happen. Imagine going into their own back yard, scary stuff!

Finn2015
12-06-2016, 10:36 AM
You cannot chuck Russia out because there 'fans' cannot behave themselves. I'd be far more inclined to take the World Cup off them in two years time as quite clearly it is an accident waiting to happen. Imagine going into their own back yard, scary stuff!

Think I'd rather go larkhall on a stormy weekend

makaveli1875
12-06-2016, 10:36 AM
Been horrendous scenes.

If I was an England fan I would not be on the streets no way. These Russians are clearly well trained men who know how to fight....not just drunk dave after ten pints of Stella. They have no qualms about kicking someone to within an inch of their life. Very scary stuff.

this 100% . the russian hooligans look like they could easily come from the spetsnaz , they are well organised and apparently armed to the teeth . Englands past exploits made them a great scalp for the russians . last night is nothing compared to the carnage we will see if they run into ukraine at any point

Speedy
12-06-2016, 10:47 AM
If you read lots of the reports - it's the Nice Ultras rather than the Irish and Polish who seemingly were getting on well.

If that's what the nice ultras are doing then I'd hate to see what the nasty ultras are up to.

Scorrie
12-06-2016, 10:53 AM
Think I'd rather go larkhall on a stormy weekend

In a green and white top!

chrisski33
12-06-2016, 11:03 AM
Russians and the English should both be thrown out.

Dreadful scenes but entirely predictable.

English were spouting their usual casual racism which is just engrained within their violent warped mentality and Russians were clearly well organised thugs.

Nothing will happen until someone dies though .

Yup both should be thrown out. As bad as one another. Why cant they go and behave themselves just like welsh fans have etc. English fans been shouting **** europe we are leaving blah blah blah days before the russian game.

Bishop Hibee
12-06-2016, 11:12 AM
Just watched Stan Collymore's Periscope from both inside and outside the stadium last night. Mental. He interviews a guy from C4 news who says ultras of various French clubs were in Marsailles. Also Russian thugs who flew to Switzerland and drove to Marsailles to avoid detection.

I'm an ABE but the English fans are more sinned against than sinners especially inside the stadium.

HibbySpurs
12-06-2016, 11:55 AM
Look beyond your predudice and the media propaganda and stop blaming it all on the Russians.

Everything bad in the world just now is those evil, nasty Russians.:rolleyes:

This 100%

Correct me if I'm wrong but bother started in Marseille on Thursday? Between English fans and Marseille ultras? No Russians in sight. Ditto Friday... Suddenly a hard core Russian ultra faction turns up, kicks the **** out of the English thugs who had been running amok for three days and it's all Russia's fault?

What a joke... The Russians are far from angelic but the English kicked it all off and are now crying because they got their heads to play with!

The amount of Ruusaphobes in the world is just staggering... Next Putin will have personally overseen the violence and coordinated it from Moscow.

Bostonhibby
12-06-2016, 12:01 PM
This 100%

Correct me if I'm wrong but bother started in Marseille on Thursday? Between English fans and Marseille ultras? No Russians in sight. Ditto Friday... Suddenly a hard core Russian ultra faction turns up, kicks the **** out of the English thugs who had been running amok for three days and it's all Russia's fault?

What a joke... The Russians are far from angelic but the English kicked it all off and are now crying because they got their heads to play with!

The amount of Ruusaphobes in the world is just staggering... Next Putin will have personally overseen the violence and coordinated it from Moscow.

Good analysis :agree:

I thought it was just Brexiters trying to drum up a bit of support from Europe.

Peevemor
12-06-2016, 12:04 PM
This 100%

Correct me if I'm wrong but bother started in Marseille on Thursday? Between English fans and Marseille ultras? No Russians in sight. Ditto Friday... Suddenly a hard core Russian ultra faction turns up, kicks the **** out of the English thugs who had been running amok for three days and it's all Russia's fault?

What a joke... The Russians are far from angelic but the English kicked it all off and are now crying because they got their heads to play with!

The amount of Ruusaphobes in the world is just staggering... Next Putin will have personally overseen the violence and coordinated it from Moscow.

Was it not the locals who started on the English?

For me, if the match had been kept away from Marseille (or Paris) there would have been far less tension and therefore far less trouble.

Andy74
12-06-2016, 12:05 PM
Just watched Stan Collymore's Periscope from both inside and outside the stadium last night. Mental. He interviews a guy from C4 news who says ultras of various French clubs were in Marsailles. Also Russian thugs who flew to Switzerland and drove to Marsailles to avoid detection.

I'm an ABE but the English fans are more sinned against than sinners especially inside the stadium.

Sorry but with all the clips I've seen of English fans the last few days they are nowhere near victims in this. They just happen to have not been as bad as Russia in the stadium itself.

The Green Goblin
12-06-2016, 12:05 PM
Both sets of fans at it. Responsibility lies on both sides: England fans in the build up to the game and at the game, Russian fans at the game and afterwards.

hibsbollah
12-06-2016, 12:11 PM
Was it not the locals who started on the English?

For me, if the match had been kept away from Marseille (or Paris) there would have been far less tension and therefore far less trouble.

Let's be honest, no one knows or is likely to know who 'started on who'. It's playground talk. 'OM Ultras' were blamed for starting it by an England fan interviewed just afterwards and I've since seen in reported as fact by a few outlets including The Guardian. It's about as reputable a source as the Russian state media who are claiming their brave boys were outnumbered 10/1 by drunken English and administered them a swift doing. I've never ever heard one set of fans saying 'actually we were acting like erchies and deserved everything we got'.

hibs69
12-06-2016, 12:22 PM
Was it not the locals who started on the English?

For me, if the match had been kept away from Marseille (or Paris) there would have been far less tension and therefore far less trouble.

I think the Russians may have been intent on kicking English erse no matter what city it was held in.

DH1875
12-06-2016, 12:39 PM
I think the Russians may have been intent on kicking English erse no matter what city it was held in.

We'll find out next week as their playing in Lille and Lens on the same day next week and their only 15 miles apart. Add the Cardiff and Swansea guys into the mix and it could be another couple of dodgy days for the English.

High-On-Hibs
12-06-2016, 12:40 PM
I think the Russians may have been intent on kicking English erse no matter what city it was held in.

Those poor defenceless souls.

hibs69
12-06-2016, 12:42 PM
Those poor defenceless souls.

In no way defending the English, pal. I'm saying I'm not so sure the city mattered they much. Yes, history with Marseille etc, but pretty sure it would've kicked off anywhere.

One Day Soon
12-06-2016, 12:48 PM
I'm not sure we are fully appreciating the phenomenon of Russian ultra nationalist organised gangs that are likely to be involved here. Think less pissed-up casual and think more highly organised almost paramilitary far right political gangs.

These are racist, xenophobic, political hate mobs and if it is them, or some of their elements, that are involved then they are there to stamp their mark on supporters of any of their near neighbours and anyone associated with the 'West'. As an earlier poster suggested Poles and Ukrainians will be targets too.

I think this carnage has a long way still to travel. They will be aware that France is effectively in a state of emergency and that the prime focus is on terrorists. While that means a greater security presence at one level, at another it is a huge distraction of resources looking for people with guns and bombs rather than people with knives, fists and boots. French plod will be struggling to contain this one while the rest of the state law enforcement apparatus has its hands full courtesy of our ISIS chums.

FWIW, while I don't think Russia is responsible for all the world's ills it is certainly vastly at it in a whole range of theatres and their illiberal views and practices on democracy, political dissent, homophobia, their neighbours, freedom of the press etc should chill anyone's blood.

QMU-1875
12-06-2016, 12:55 PM
Russia are indefensible. If Scotland qualify for the World Cup 2018 not a chance in hell I'll be going over to Moscow for it! These are highly organised right wing groups intent on causing bother. The Russian media are treating these people as heroes!

High-On-Hibs
12-06-2016, 01:00 PM
I'm not sure we are fully appreciating the phenomenon of Russian ultra nationalist organised gangs that are likely to be involved here. Think less pissed-up casual and think more highly organised almost paramilitary far right political gangs.

These are racist, xenophobic, political hate mobs and if it is them, or some of their elements, that are involved then they are there to stamp their mark on supporters of any of their near neighbours and anyone associated with the 'West'. As an earlier poster suggested Poles and Ukrainians will be targets too.

I think this carnage has a long way still to travel. They will be aware that France is effectively in a state of emergency and that the prime focus is on terrorists. While that means a greater security presence at one level, at another it is a huge distraction of resources looking for people with guns and bombs rather than people with knives, fists and boots. French plod will be struggling to contain this one while the rest of the state law enforcement apparatus has its hands full courtesy of our ISIS chums.

FWIW, while I don't think Russia is responsible for all the world's ills it is certainly vastly at it in a whole range of theatres and their illiberal views and practices on democracy, political dissent, homophobia, their neighbours, freedom of the press etc should chill anyone's blood.

Out of curiosity. Have you ever stepped foot in Russia?

Because if not. Then you sure believe yourself to know a lot about a country that you've never been to before.

High-On-Hibs
12-06-2016, 01:01 PM
The Russian media are treating these people as heroes!

How do you know? Seriously, how can you know this?

Pretty Boy
12-06-2016, 01:05 PM
How do you know? Seriously, how can you know this?

In the days of the internet it's really not that hard to find Russian media reports online and translate them.

I'm not sure I'd go as far as to say they are being treated as heroes but the tone of the articles doesn't read as a condemnation.

blackpoolhibs
12-06-2016, 01:07 PM
Nobody is blameless here, but the bleating from the English is funny. For years they have rampaged through country after country causing riots whenever they travelled abroad.

Now because they are taking a beating its everyone else who's to blame.

If they'd not been such a bunch of tossers in the past, these other factions would not be targeting them.

Yes its wrong, but karma is a bitch.

makaveli1875
12-06-2016, 01:08 PM
In the days of the internet it's really not that hard to find Russian media reports online and translate them.

I'm not sure I'd go as far as to say they are being treated as heroes but the tone of the articles doesn't read as a condemnation.

i liked the 1 that claims there was no violence in the stadium because the english fans ran away

SJM
12-06-2016, 01:09 PM
Nobody is blameless here, but the bleating from the English is funny. For years they have rampaged through country after country causing riots whenever they travelled abroad.

Now because they are taking a beating its everyone else who's to blame.

If they'd not been such a bunch of tossers in the past, these other factions would not be targeting them.

Yes its wrong, but karma is a bitch.

Russians hate the British. I reckon it will be similar against Wales. They just see everyone as English.

Pretty Boy
12-06-2016, 01:12 PM
There was apparently bother between some Serbian and Turks in Paris this afternoon.

Serbian guys burning Turkish flags and parading a banner reading 'UEFA support Terrorism' on it. Kicked off between them and a few Croatians according to reports on Twitter.

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One Day Soon
12-06-2016, 01:13 PM
Out of curiosity. Have you ever stepped foot in Russia?

Because if not. Then you sure believe yourself to know a lot about a country that you've never been to before.


I'm sure it's a beacon of open, democratic, peaceful tolerance. Gay people, Ukrainians and Pussy Riot are just imagining things.

blackpoolhibs
12-06-2016, 01:14 PM
Russians hate the British. I reckon it will be similar against Wales. They just see everyone as English.

They might do, and once again its wrong should it happen. I still find it funny that the English are moaning about it though, given their past.

The school bully has come up against someone harder who's kicked their arse into next week.

It was bound to happen. :greengrin

SJM
12-06-2016, 01:15 PM
They might do, and once again its wrong should it happen. I still find it funny that the English are moaning about it though, given their past.

The school bully has come up against someone harder who's kicked their arse into next week.

It was bound to happen. :greengrin

True :)

hibs69
12-06-2016, 01:15 PM
So what needs to happen is the Russians need to start on the Welsh, and the English need to start on the Slovakians....., then they're both proved to be at fault? Sorted.

SJM
12-06-2016, 01:18 PM
The Slovaks getting together against the Russians could e the worst of the lot.

hibs69
12-06-2016, 01:23 PM
One of my mates, (jambo bstd!) was speaking about being caught up between Dukla Prague and Sparta Prague fans fighting in the 80's....., scariest day of his life. So yes, probably true, those Slovaks probably are getting ready for the Russians.

Don't know why but I genuinely thought this tournament would be hassle free with the raised French terror alert. So bloody wrong.

nellio
12-06-2016, 01:31 PM
Not sure how Russia can be trusted to host the world cup in 2 years time. Not as if they won the right to host it cleanly anyway mind!!!

DH1875
12-06-2016, 01:35 PM
Russians hate the British. I reckon it will be similar against Wales. They just see everyone as English.

They quite like the Scots to be fair.

SanFranHibs
12-06-2016, 01:35 PM
Yes, there are obvious parallels, but only because all bullies behave in exactly the same manner. They strut around full of themselves in their boorish arrogance, then when somebody stands up to them, or they meet a bigger bully, they quickly embrace the role of victim. Individuals in this situation often (not always) learn from this, and grow into human beings who can assert themselves in life while respecting the rights and needs of others.

Unfortunately mobs are often different, particularly ones burdened with the notion of a supremacist culture. They tend to get stuck in the bully-victim-bully-victim cycle.

Rangers fans, Some England supporters, UKIP voters, Trump supporters all tend to carry that burden and exhibit that behaviour.

Off the mark on this one DBS.

ALL the disruption thus far has been at Trump rallies and reported as Bernie supporters. I believe it has been organized by the Clinton campaign and indeed the protesters at Trump Tower in NY recently admitted in interview they had been. Although events at a Trump rally last week here in California took a more violent turn where even women were physically assaulted. There has not been one single protest or incident at a Sanders or Clinton rally.

Also, is it not time we stopped the labelling of the 'hooligans' as extreme left or extreme right. I doubt many of them are even interested in politics, let alone active. I don't think the Hibs fans who fought on the fields of Hampden were all Irish nationalists. They were not O'Hooligans :wink:

P.S. I wanted Bernie to win. ABC though. Anyone but Clinton.

Pretty Boy
12-06-2016, 01:36 PM
Not sure how Russia can be trusted to host the world cup in 2 years time. Not as if they won the right to host it cleanly anyway mind!!!

I think even if you strip all the stuff back the video of someone in the Russian crowd firing a flare gun into a group of England fans alone should have people asking questions.

That's a scary mentality as it's a reckless act. It also poses plenty questions about how good the security arrangements are.

Hibbyradge
12-06-2016, 01:39 PM
Look beyond your predudice and the media propaganda and stop blaming it all on the Russians.

Everything bad in the world just now is those evil, nasty Russians.:rolleyes:

Russia was fined for its fans' behaviour at all 3 of their Euro 2012 games.

UEFA seems to have placed the blame for last night squarely on Russia again.

DH1875
12-06-2016, 01:40 PM
The Slovaks getting together against the Russians could e the worst of the lot.

As I said earlier in the thread, England are playing Wales on the same day 15 miles away. Another bad day ahead for the Euros me thinks.

nellio
12-06-2016, 01:40 PM
Exactly and the stories you hear over there about racism, corruption and homophobia adding to security conccerns.

DH1875
12-06-2016, 01:43 PM
There was apparently bother between some Serbian and Turks in Paris this afternoon.

Serbian guys burning Turkish flags and parading a banner reading 'UEFA support Terrorism' on it. Kicked off between them and a few Croatians according to reports on Twitter.

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Serbian guys :confused:

Pretty Boy
12-06-2016, 01:45 PM
Serbian guys :confused:
Pictures on Twitter had them with Serbian flags.

If they are on the look out for bother I'd imagine they would find it with the Turkish and Croatians.

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One Day Soon
12-06-2016, 01:51 PM
Pictures on Twitter had them with Serbian flags.

If they are on the look out for bother I'd imagine they would find it with the Turkish and Croatians.

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It does strike me that the atmosphere around this tournament almost has as much of the feel of jingoistic pre-WWI Sarajevo/Balkan/European nationalistic madness as it does a football tournament. It's like some ancient genie is back out of the bottle. Grim.

DH1875
12-06-2016, 01:51 PM
Pictures on Twitter had them with Serbian flags.

If they are on the look out for bother I'd imagine they would find it with the Turkish and Croatians.

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Not doubting that. Screw the Russians, last place you'd want to be is caught up between the Croatians and the Serbs going at it. Was just surprised to hear Serbs were there given they haven't qualified.

Germany vs Ukraine is another dodgy one tonight.

Pretty Boy
12-06-2016, 01:52 PM
It does strike me that the atmosphere around this tournament almost has as much of the feel of jingoistic pre-WWI Sarajevo/Balkan/European nationalistic madness as it does a football tournament. It's like some ancient genie is back out of the bottle. Grim.
It does have a nasty feel to it.

Vidoes doing the rounds of Crotians and Turks chasing each other now as well.

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euro Hibby
12-06-2016, 02:15 PM
Saying that Russians hate the British is a bit of a sweeping statement. I have been a regular visitor to Russia for a number of years and never had any bother. Sure you have to watch out, like in any big city. It is a hard country, politically oppressed and for sure not ready for democracy , if there is such a thing today. The WC in 2018 , will go smoothly because they they will make sure nobody steps out of line from any country.

From what , we see on video it is hard to understand who is to blame. We know from our own recent history that the press and media and spin things as they like and from what I can see Manchester, Glasgow 1980, and Barcelona 1972 look to be worse, albeit it what is happening in Marselles is not pretty.

Foreign police foreces don't ask questions. Look at France , Spain and Italy as examples. If you are in the vicinity then you risk getting getting netted like the bad guys. Here what is unfortunate is that it is not about the football. Win , lose or draw, their are people their hell bent on causing trouble and we still have possibly to see the worst of it in the enxt days.

SJM
12-06-2016, 02:25 PM
I was in Egypt a few years back and there is loads of Russians, they hate native English speakers and where in general rude as anything. Ukrainians where cool though.

1987kev
12-06-2016, 02:35 PM
UEFA warn England and Russia if the violence continues they might get disqualified from the tournament

hfc rd
12-06-2016, 02:36 PM
UEFA warn England and Russia if the violence continues they might get disqualified from the tournament


Good!

Deansy
12-06-2016, 02:38 PM
Nobody is blameless here, but the bleating from the English is funny. For years they have rampaged through country after country causing riots whenever they travelled abroad.

Now because they are taking a beating its everyone else who's to blame.

If they'd not been such a bunch of tossers in the past, these other factions would not be targeting them.

Yes its wrong, but karma is a bitch.

My thoughts exactly - for years, no-one's really challenged them or took them on. Now that someone is, they don't like it one little bit - no small wonder comparisons are being made with them and Sevco-fans !!

euro Hibby
12-06-2016, 02:42 PM
Russia is a big country. They have a lot of people who have never left the country so alot of the ones you were seeing in Egypt did not have much exposure to anything outside their own walls. You will be lucky if 10 % of them have the chance to get out of the country. Eastern Europe has a very tough recent history , so they certainly don't take prisoners when they are ruffled.
I watch Russian TV most days. Putin does about 3 hours per day on TV and is no mug.

Until fans can police themseleves , we are always going to get trouble which is fuelled largely on alcohol and ignorance. I would guess also that social media is not really helping as fans can use to glorify their exploits.

heretoday
12-06-2016, 02:49 PM
UEFA warn England and Russia if the violence continues they might get disqualified from the tournament

I can't believe that there won't be trouble at the Wales v England game

Beefster
12-06-2016, 02:51 PM
Nonsense. Their ******** to ok ratio is about on par with Englands. Most of the Russian fans that were moving towards the English fans were doing so because of some moron in their crowd who let off a fire cracker that sounded like an explosion. The English fans fought the Russian fans were looking for trouble and it all kicked off.

The firecracker was let off about 4 minutes before some Russian fans charged at the England section (and even before Russia equalised). If that was the cause of a stampede towards the English, it was a severely delayed reaction.

1987kev
12-06-2016, 02:54 PM
I can't believe that there won't be trouble at the Wales v England game

Yeah defo. Just watch a few videos the Stan collymore 1 saying about 300 French youth attacking the English after the game last night. French Russian and Welsh the English will b fighting until there knock out of the euros

Keith_M
12-06-2016, 02:55 PM
UEFA warn England and Russia if the violence continues they might get disqualified from the tournament


It's unfair on the teams and the majority if Fans that are perfectly innocent in all this but I think it would be understandable if UEFA actually did this.


Oh and by the way, why would I be prejudiced against Russians? I work with some of them and they are perfectly nice people.

What I'm prejudiced against is football hooligans trying to kill people and a government excusing their actions.

Bishop Hibee
12-06-2016, 03:05 PM
Sorry but with all the clips I've seen of English fans the last few days they are nowhere near victims in this. They just happen to have not been as bad as Russia in the stadium itself.

I didn't say they are victims, I said Russian thugs and French ultras from various clubs and local hoodlums were worse from what I've seen. There needs to be an alcohol ban where Ingurlund play.

As for Russia, they need a massive fine and games behind closed doors at the least. Points deduction for the next Euros a possibility.

Smartie
12-06-2016, 03:13 PM
Now that the Russians and the English have been given a serious warning, is there any good reason for the Swansea and Cardiff hooligans not to go absolutely bananas at the next couple of games and get the other 2 chucked out?

I could honestly see this competition getting silly. There are so many potential flash points it is unreal.

Baader
12-06-2016, 03:18 PM
I didn't say they are victims, I said Russian thugs and French ultras from various clubs and local hoodlums were worse from what I've seen. There needs to be an alcohol ban where Ingurlund play.

As for Russia, they need a massive fine and games behind closed doors at the least. Points deduction for the next Euros a possibility.

Russia had a suspended six point deduction hanging over their qualification for disorder at the the last Euros. Their marching in Warsaw four years ago was a disgrace. Some of these guys will be the rent a mob thugs Putin deployed in Ukraine so he could deny they were invading them. Very dodgy indeed.

(((Fergus)))
12-06-2016, 03:23 PM
It's unfair on the teams and the majority if Fans that are perfectly innocent in all this but I think it would be understandable if UEFA actually did this.


Oh and by the way, why would I be prejudiced against Russians? I work with some of them and they are perfectly nice people.

What I'm prejudiced against is football hooligans trying to kill people and a government excusing their actions.

It's a good way of applying pressure on fans to "police" their own troublemakers. But would be better if they just threatened to ban all fans from the offending country.

hibsbollah
12-06-2016, 03:25 PM
Some of these guys will be the rent a mob thugs Putin deployed in Ukraine so he could deny they were invading them. .

:faf: As Putin strokes his white cat, laughs his evil laugh and feeds his tank full of piranhas, presumably?

Keith_M
12-06-2016, 03:26 PM
I just hope the Security at the Russian World Cup is going to be a bit better than the pathetic French effort.


Russian and English Fans in adjacent sections, with only a piece of tarpaulin between them and not a policeman in sight. Hardly a surprise the Russian Fans invaded the England section so easily after the game.

Baader
12-06-2016, 03:33 PM
:faf: As Putin strokes his white cat, laughs his evil laugh and feeds his tank full of piranhas, presumably?

Aye. Annexing The Crimea is hilarious stuff.

Keith_M
12-06-2016, 03:36 PM
Aye. Annexing The Crimea is hilarious stuff.


That was my first reaction as well, Baader, but I think he's maybe referring to some conspiracy theory about sending soldiers disguised as football fans., which does sound a bit fanciful, TBH.

hibsbollah
12-06-2016, 03:43 PM
Aye. Annexing The Crimea is hilarious stuff.

Crimea? What are you talking about now :dunno:

Baader
12-06-2016, 03:45 PM
That was my first reaction as well, Baader, but I think he's maybe referring to some conspiracy theory about sending soldiers disguised as football fans., which does sound a bit fanciful, TBH.

Not soldiers but hired gangs Putin deployed in Ukraine. Like the Night Wolves. Ultras in Russia have seen war zones, no doubt about that.

BroxburnHibee
12-06-2016, 03:51 PM
Uefa won't do a thing till someone loses their life.

Ronniekirk
12-06-2016, 03:52 PM
Crimea? What are you talking about now :dunno:

Bit rusty on my History but was that not The Charge Of The Light Brigade


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makaveli1875
12-06-2016, 03:54 PM
Not soldiers but hired gangs Putin deployed in Ukraine. Like the Night Wolves. Ultras in Russia have seen war zones, no doubt about that.

you can never rule anything out with mad vlad but i seriously doubt he is behind this considering what is at stake with russias world cup . even he is not that mental

Keith_M
12-06-2016, 03:58 PM
you can never rule anything out with mad vlad but i seriously doubt he is behind this considering what is at stake with russias world cup . even he is not that mental


:agree:


Putin is a very calculated guy that only ever does something for a very good reason and with the end result already worked out.

I honestly can't see what's in it for him to send people under cover as football hooligans to France.

Baader
12-06-2016, 04:00 PM
you can never rule anything out with mad vlad but i seriously doubt he is behind this considering what is at stake with russias world cup . even he is not that mental

I'm not saying he is. I'm saying some of the guys involved in Marseille will have seen action in the recent invasion of the Crimea (which Putin annexed in 2014 Hibsbollah) Russian hooligans are a completely different proposition to what we think of as such over here. These guys mean business.

HoboHarry
12-06-2016, 04:04 PM
Bit rusty on my History but was that not The Charge Of The Light Brigade


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You need to read the Daily Record to keep yourself well informed about recent world events Ronnie. :greengrin

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation

Ronniekirk
12-06-2016, 04:09 PM
You need to read the Daily Record to keep yourself well informed about recent world events Ronnie. :greengrin

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation

I remember the line from the Poem Into the Valley of Death rode the 600 and new there was an association with the word Balaclava ( yon itchy things you were made to wear to school when you were wee ) green grin


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ScottB
12-06-2016, 04:16 PM
:agree:


Putin is a very calculated guy that only ever does something for a very good reason and with the end result already worked out.

I honestly can't see what's in it for him to send people under cover as football hooligans to France.

I think you give him a little too much credit. Certainly the behaviour of Russian fans is a consequence of the tolerance toward / encouragement of all the racism, homophobia and hooliganism that is present in Russian football.

Though as far as I can see, while the Russians may have saved their bad behaviour for inside the stadium (mostly), the English fans behaviour out with it is just as deplorable.


Wonder if the comparative good behaviour at tournaments in Brazil, Poland and South Africa was more down to it being too far / expensive for these hooligans to easily attend, rather than the FA having had success in stamping out this element from the English support.

hibsbollah
12-06-2016, 04:20 PM
I remember the line from the Poem Into the Valley of Death rode the 600 and new there was an association with the word Balaclava ( yon itchy things you were made to wear to school when you were wee ) green grin


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So the Russkis invented hooliganism, commies and scratchy knitted face wear? Bassas.

Pretty Boy
12-06-2016, 04:24 PM
I think you give him a little too much credit. Certainly the behaviour of Russian fans is a consequence of the tolerance toward / encouragement of all the racism, homophobia and hooliganism that is present in Russian football.

Though as far as I can see, while the Russians may have saved their bad behaviour for inside the stadium (mostly), the English fans behaviour out with it is just as deplorable.


Wonder if the comparative good behaviour at tournaments in Brazil, Poland and South Africa was more down to it being too far / expensive for these hooligans to easily attend, rather than the FA having had success in stamping out this element from the English support.

I blame the Tories for the English fans behaviour.

When the causal movement was at it's height it was during a prolonged period of Tory rule, we have entered a new era of Tory rule and there has been a resurgence in football violence, or at least an allusion to a comeback, in recent years. Coincidence?

I'm not even totally joking either, social and economic factors play a part in things like this happening.

Hibbyradge
12-06-2016, 04:25 PM
I



Wonder if the comparative good behaviour at tournaments in Brazil, Poland and South Africa was more down to it being too far / expensive for these hooligans to easily attend, rather than the FA having had success in stamping out this element from the English support.

Poland isn't expensive or far.

DH1875
12-06-2016, 04:38 PM
I was in Egypt a few years back and there is loads of Russians, they hate native English speakers and where in general rude as anything. Ukrainians where cool though.

Met a load of Russian guys in Ibiza and they were sound. They were crazy and you wouldn't have wanted to mess with them but good guys.



Now that the Russians and the English have been given a serious warning, is there any good reason for the Swansea and Cardiff hooligans not to go absolutely bananas at the next couple of games and get the other 2 chucked out?

I could honestly see this competition getting silly. There are so many potential flash points it is unreal.

If the Welsh go up against the Russians, they'll get the same as the English if not worse.

hibsbollah
12-06-2016, 04:40 PM
I blame the Tories for the English fans behaviour.

When the causal movement was at it's height it was during a prolonged period of Tory rule, we have entered a new era of Tory rule and there has been a resurgence in football violence, or at least an allusion to a comeback, in recent years. Coincidence?

I'm not even totally joking either, social and economic factors play a part in things like this happening.

I wonder how the 80s CCS generation would fare against today's top seed hooligans (Russia Ukraine Poland)? Or maybe it's unfair to compare different generations, like the Maradona vs Messi debate.

LancashireHibby
12-06-2016, 04:41 PM
The firecracker was let off about 4 minutes before some Russian fans charged at the England section (and even before Russia equalised). If that was the cause of a stampede towards the English, it was a severely delayed reaction.

I've seen a semi-plausible theory that the firecracker effectively acted as a signal for the Russians that it was time to launch their attack. Given the level of their organisation as seen on the YouTube training videos and the like, you can't put it past them.

Dashing Bob S
12-06-2016, 04:45 PM
I wonder how the 80s CCS generation would fare against today's top seed hooligans (Russia Ukraine Poland)? Or maybe it's unfair to compare different generations, like the Maradona vs Messi debate.

Probably the same as the England mob, who were cruelly exposed as existing in an 80's timewarp up against the modern training techniques of the Ivan Drago Russians. With their military heritage and their scientific disciplined application of street fighting, they've taken the sport to a whole new level and should be applauded as such.

ScottB
12-06-2016, 04:48 PM
Poland isn't expensive or far.

Further than a quick jaunt over the channel, as was Ukraine.

Keith_M
12-06-2016, 04:50 PM
I wonder how the 80s CCS generation would fare against today's top seed hooligans (Russia Ukraine Poland)? Or maybe it's unfair to compare different generations, like the Maradona vs Messi debate.


Seeing as they were mostly in their teens, I'd imagine it would be a bit one sided.

hibsbollah
12-06-2016, 04:51 PM
Probably the same as the England mob, who were cruelly exposed as existing in an 80's timewarp up against the modern training techniques of the Ivan Drago Russians. With their military heritage and their scientific disciplined application of street fighting, they've taken the sport to a whole new level and should be applauded as such.

I think you're giving the Russki top boys too much credit. The CCS didn't have the worlds second biggest military superpower arming training and supplying them weaponry. Plus Putin made them watch Green Street on a loop so they clearly had an unfair advantage.

We still dressed better back in the day. Today's boxers really don't do themselves credit from a sartorial point of view.

Keith_M
12-06-2016, 04:53 PM
I think you're giving the Russki top boys too much credit. The CCS didn't have the worlds second biggest military superpower arming training and supplying them weaponry. Plus Putin made them watch Green Street on a loop so they clearly had an unfair advantage.

We still dressed better back in the day. Today's boxers really don't do themselves credit from a sartorial point of view.


Adidas Gazelles against Russian Jackboots....

Holmesdale Hibs
12-06-2016, 04:53 PM
The late kick offs, especially on Saturday, will always have a raised possibility of trouble. I also remember during the riots a psychologist said that the heat makes people more volatile. Combine that with good, cheap wine and 2 countries with known issues then this is hardly surprising.

Russia were worse than England on this occasion. But to be fair to the English press, they were quite damning of the racist songs their fans were singing the night before.

Hibbyradge
12-06-2016, 05:10 PM
Further than a quick jaunt over the channel, as was Ukraine.

People seem to be desperate to believe what they want to believe.

Distance doesn't stop hooligans.

There was violence by England fans in Mexico 1986. Google it.

In any case, regarding the previous post, you can get a flight to Poland for about £30.

Bishop Hibee
12-06-2016, 05:11 PM
There was apparently bother between some Serbian and Turks in Paris this afternoon.

Serbian guys burning Turkish flags and parading a banner reading 'UEFA support Terrorism' on it. Kicked off between them and a few Croatians according to reports on Twitter.

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Serbian ultras had photos of that flag outside UEFA HQ. There was some kind of international friendly involving Kosovo recently which took place in Hanover. Serbian nationalists still see Kosovo as part of Serbia thus the banner.

Dashing Bob S
12-06-2016, 05:31 PM
I think you're giving the Russki top boys too much credit. The CCS didn't have the worlds second biggest military superpower arming training and supplying them weaponry. Plus Putin made them watch Green Street on a loop so they clearly had an unfair advantage.

We still dressed better back in the day. Today's boxers really don't do themselves credit from a sartorial point of view.

We also developed the 'men in black' look that they have crassly adopted.

heretoday
12-06-2016, 05:49 PM
Probably the same as the England mob, who were cruelly exposed as existing in an 80's timewarp up against the modern training techniques of the Ivan Drago Russians. With their military heritage and their scientific disciplined application of street fighting, they've taken the sport to a whole new level and should be applauded as such.

And they say we should get rid of Trident!

JOD
12-06-2016, 06:12 PM
As far as I am concerned the Russian thugs gave the English thugs a taste of their own medicine they were just more organised.

Having been in France 98 there is always 1 common denominator Engerland I'm afraid !!!

HUTCHYHIBBY
12-06-2016, 06:41 PM
Probably the same as the England mob, who were cruelly exposed as existing in an 80's timewarp up against the modern training techniques of the Ivan Drago Russians. With their military heritage and their scientific disciplined application of street fighting, they've taken the sport to a whole new level and should be applauded as such.

I can't see you having much time for the attire these guys are sporting DBS.

Hibbyradge
12-06-2016, 06:46 PM
As far as I am concerned the Russian thugs gave the English thugs a taste of their own medicine they were just more organised.

Having been in France 98 there is always 1 common denominator Engerland I'm afraid !!!


Russia caused trouble at all of their Euro 2012 games.

Was there violence from England fans?

Dashing Bob S
12-06-2016, 07:21 PM
I can't see you having much time for the attire these guys are sporting DBS.

Drab, fascist travesty, but practical in the camera'd up security era. They need a Hugo Boss type designer and higher end dark clothing.

HUTCHYHIBBY
12-06-2016, 07:26 PM
Drab, fascist travesty, but practical in the camera'd up security era. They need a Hugo Boss type designer and higher end dark clothing.

I believe that was tried before in the '30s, look how that worked out!

MKHIBEE
12-06-2016, 07:38 PM
Nonsense. Their ******** to ok ratio is about on par with Englands. Most of the Russian fans that were moving towards the English fans were doing so because of some moron in their crowd who let off a fire cracker that sounded like an explosion. The English fans fought the Russian fans were looking for trouble and it all kicked off.

You are Jim Traynor and I claim my £5

Posh Swanny
12-06-2016, 09:45 PM
As far as I am concerned the Russian thugs gave the English thugs a taste of their own medicine they were just more organised.

Having been in France 98 there is always 1 common denominator Engerland I'm afraid !!!
Try to have at least *some* perspective in this FFS. While that may be the case on some instances, my version of that sentence would be "some Russian thugs gave three of my mates a taste of someone else's medicine before the game last night and two of them don't even drink let alone sing racist songs or fight other fans."

They've been tear gassed out of the blue a couple of times too. I've no doubt many England fans are behaving as badly as always, but the number of "normal" fans being caught up in it all in the last couple of days is very very unusual, even for England away. It's those guys and gals that are "bleating" and "moaning" about it.

JOD
12-06-2016, 10:00 PM
Have you been living on Mars or something ? There was rioting in Marseille for 3 days without any Russian thugs.

Suppose Police and Locals were to blame for that then !

JOD
12-06-2016, 11:46 PM
Russia caused trouble at all of their Euro 2012 games.

Was there violence from England fans?

Yes with Swedish Fans although to be fair having been in Ukraine with Hibs it is not a place to start
too much Bovver. Even the English numpties worked that one out lol

MoscowHibs
13-06-2016, 05:07 AM
Russians hate the British. I reckon it will be similar against Wales. They just see everyone as English.

That's pish for a start. I have been to Russia 6 times and I have never had a bad word said against me, why, because I'm Scottish. They don't like the English, not the British as you put it.I flew over the morning after the referendum and ALL the Russians I spoke with were so disappointed we didn't get independence.

Beefster
13-06-2016, 05:54 AM
That's pish for a start. I have been to Russia 6 times and I have never had a bad word said against me, why, because I'm Scottish. They don't like the English, not the British as you put it.I flew over the morning after the referendum and ALL the Russians I spoke with were so disappointed we didn't get independence.

I was disappointed when they annexed Crimea so I reckon we're even.

blackpoolhibs
13-06-2016, 06:41 AM
Try to have at least *some* perspective in this FFS. While that may be the case on some instances, my version of that sentence would be "some Russian thugs gave three of my mates a taste of someone else's medicine before the game last night and two of them don't even drink let alone sing racist songs or fight other fans."

They've been tear gassed out of the blue a couple of times too. I've no doubt many England fans are behaving as badly as always, but the number of "normal" fans being caught up in it all in the last couple of days is very very unusual, even for England away. It's those guys and gals that are "bleating" and "moaning" about it.

And that is a real shame, and completely wrong. Although it seems its a direct result of other countries being fed up of the way England fans in the past have ran amok all over the world, they are now fighting back.

Two wrongs dont make a right, but these are the consequences of English fans behaviour in the past.

There's no wonder it appears there is little sympathy for whats happening in France.

Dashing Bob S
13-06-2016, 06:53 AM
And that is a real shame, and completely wrong. Although it seems its a direct result of other countries being fed up of the way England fans in the past have ran amok all over the world, they are now fighting back.

Two wrongs dont make a right, but these are the consequences of English fans behaviour in the past.

There's no wonder it appears there is little sympathy for whats happening in France.

I think there's a marked intolerance now of people who sing 'political' songs of superiority and conquest at sporting events. Thus there was a backlash against Rangers when they complained about Hibs fans. I think England fans songs about Isis and Ireland lost them a lot of sympathy, people thinking when the Russians steamed them that it's hard to shed any tears as they invited it on themeless with this this bullying, boorish, supremacist behaviour, which is irrelevant to football. Now we see some Northern Ireland fans being attacked by Poles for singing songs about Hitler and the invasion of that country.

Songs that continually abuse and denigrate other sections of the population, or set out to provoke them, have come to be viewed as unacceptable and their perpetrators as fair game.

Ironically, it's because those big international tournaments have become ****fests, and I think the mingling of fans is one of the most exciting aspects of them. People who want to sabotage that by making it solely about the narcissism of fat guys who don't know how to talk to women, are pretty much frowned upon. One of the harshest songs of recent years was a group of Swedish fans singing to England hooligans 'go home to your ugly wives'. It literally did silence them in shame.

Posh Swanny
13-06-2016, 07:11 AM
Have you been living on Mars or something ? There was rioting in Marseille for 3 days without any Russian thugs.

Suppose Police and Locals were to blame for that then !
I'm not denying any of that that, I was merely asking you to have some perspective to what happened on Saturday as you stated that "Russian thugs attacked English thugs" when I have first hand accounts that confirm this wasn't the case at all.

Now, if you're classing all England fans in France as thugs/fair game because of what's happened in the past and what happened on Thursday and Friday in Marseille then we're onto a subject that probably won't be fully debated until Hibs next play at Ibrox.

HibbySpurs
13-06-2016, 07:57 AM
Russia had a suspended six point deduction hanging over their qualification for disorder at the the last Euros. Their marching in Warsaw four years ago was a disgrace. Some of these guys will be the rent a mob thugs Putin deployed in Ukraine so he could deny they were invading them. Very dodgy indeed.

Really? Are you for real? Insinuating the Russian Government is involved in this?

Do you work for CNN?

Hibbyradge
13-06-2016, 08:32 AM
Really? Are you for real? Insinuating the Russian Government is involved in this?

Do you work for CNN?

Read it again.

That's not what he's saying.

Baader
13-06-2016, 09:21 AM
Really? Are you for real? Insinuating the Russian Government is involved in this?

Do you work for CNN?

I am not saying that. You've completely misunderstood it. Maybe go back and read over the posts again.

High-On-Hibs
13-06-2016, 09:26 AM
I am not saying that. You've completely misunderstood it. Maybe go back and read over the posts again.

To be fair. All governments have their "rent a mobs". Don't think for one moment that we're any different.

jacomo
13-06-2016, 10:02 AM
I've seen a semi-plausible theory that the firecracker effectively acted as a signal for the Russians that it was time to launch their attack. Given the level of their organisation as seen on the YouTube training videos and the like, you can't put it past them.

Those scenes from the stadium are pretty shocking, I don't see how anyone can disagree with that.

Groups of hoolies squaring up and throwing plastic furniture at each other in the street is one thing, but charging across a segregated stadium is something else. There were folks with kids there who looked pretty shaken up.

Onion
13-06-2016, 10:56 AM
While the Russian fans are a disgrace, the main problem was lack of proper segregation. It's the same as Hibs fans being allowed to invade the pitch at Hampden! Stop it at its source and the problem does not emerge. The other problem is England fans have the money and ticket connections to travel on huge numbers to these tournaments to the point where average fans and families think they can sit anywhere in the stadium safely and likely to have lots of other Englanders around them. The Russians are a reality check. In all of this, fans have a responsibility to look after themselves. Anyone buying a ticket that is not clearly designated for their supporters takes a risk with own their safety. What would have happened if 500 Hibs fans had sat in the Sevco end at Hampden?

England fans need a serious reality check on their behaviour, respect for others, and safety at matches.

Hibbyradge
13-06-2016, 11:14 AM
While the Russian fans are a disgrace, the main problem was lack of proper segregation. It's the same as Hibs fans being allowed to invade the pitch at Hampden! Stop it at its source and the problem does not emerge. The other problem is England fans have the money and ticket connections to travel on huge numbers to these tournaments to the point where average fans and families think they can sit anywhere in the stadium safely and likely to have lots of other Englanders around them. The Russians are a reality check. In all of this, fans have a responsibility to look after themselves. Anyone buying a ticket that is not clearly designated for their supporters takes a risk with own their safety. What would have happened if 500 Hibs fans had sat in the Sevco end at Hampden?

England fans need a serious reality check on their behaviour, respect for others, and safety at matches.

Were England fans in the wrong part of the stadium? I've not seen any reports which suggest that.

What happened in the stadium was entirely the fault of organised Russian hooligans.

I'm disgusted by some of the behaviour of English supporters, but they're being blamed for far more than they deserve.

Smartie
13-06-2016, 11:18 AM
While the Russian fans are a disgrace, the main problem was lack of proper segregation. It's the same as Hibs fans being allowed to invade the pitch at Hampden! Stop it at its source and the problem does not emerge. The other problem is England fans have the money and ticket connections to travel on huge numbers to these tournaments to the point where average fans and families think they can sit anywhere in the stadium safely and likely to have lots of other Englanders around them. The Russians are a reality check. In all of this, fans have a responsibility to look after themselves. Anyone buying a ticket that is not clearly designated for their supporters takes a risk with own their safety. What would have happened if 500 Hibs fans had sat in the Sevco end at Hampden?

England fans need a serious reality check on their behaviour, respect for others, and safety at matches.

I think police resources are spread impossibly thin.

I was speaking to a mate on Friday about the cup final business, he is a copper. He says they are stretched so thin at the moment it is unbelievable. He keeps hearing the police being blamed for the cup final business - hardly their fault that there weren't enough of them. I reckon the SPFL policed it on the cheap and were caught with their pants down when they had to deal with potential flash points outside the stadium and "exuberant" Hibs fans inside it. They can only be in one place at one time.

Marseille is a powderkeg. The nation is in a state of emergency regarding a terror attack ffs, then you've got English twats being boozy clowns, local gangs running amok and now Russians getting heavily involved.

The trouble in the stadium was almost inevitable. There was always going to be a gap in security somewhere allowing that attack to happen, given the police are fighting on so many fronts.

I wouldn't fancy being a French policeman right now.

21.05.2016
13-06-2016, 11:29 AM
As if the French police and security don't have enough to deal with. The terror threat is at maximum and now they also have to deal with these drunken morons tryna play the big hard man act.


Many of the England fans have been a disgrace. Its a shame for their genuine supporters who are over there just having a good time, not causing any bother as most of the images coming out in the press is only seeing the idiot behaviour side of things. I would be mortified if it was Scotland fans.

SJM
13-06-2016, 11:41 AM
As if the French police and security don't have enough to deal with. The terror threat is at maximum and now they also have to deal with these drunken morons tryna play the big hard man act.


Many of the England fans have been a disgrace. Its a shame for their genuine supporters who are over there just having a good time, not causing any bother as most of the images coming out in the press is only seeing the idiot behaviour side of things. I would be mortified if it was Scotland fans.

How can you say "many" of the England fans have been a disgrace? They haven't looked for bother for years and have came accross organised bams, both the locals in France who riot with the whites and police all the time and then the radgest hooligans in Europe.

HibbySpurs
13-06-2016, 11:57 AM
I am not saying that. You've completely misunderstood it. Maybe go back and read over the posts again.

Yeah ok, hands up..

You are suggesting some of those involved may or may not have had day trips to Donetsk in recent times.... Of course purely in a "volunteer" capacity.

Possibly a handful but I suspect that the guys in question would have "better things to do" and getting lifted in France and their personal records poured over may end up with them in a lot of bother?

Personal take is that the hooligans involved are "ultras" and that the ring leaders will be military background, besides all Russians do two years service anyway so they will all have had a degree of training.

It's a pity for Russia as well as mot of their fans just want to go and watch the football and have a good time (just like most English fans).

The wider issue for the Russian Government is they will need to be seen to clamp down and punish some offenders and try to promote their country as a safe place for football fans to visit in 2018... Which it will be as the authorities simply wont stand for that sort of carry on in Moscow in 2018.

3pm
13-06-2016, 12:17 PM
Were England fans in the wrong part of the stadium? I've not seen any reports which suggest that.

What happened in the stadium was entirely the fault of organised Russian hooligans.

I'm disgusted by some of the behaviour of English supporters, but they're being blamed for far more than they deserve.

The FA chief executive was on TV this morning. I am pretty sure he said that they knew English fans had bought tickets through the Russian FA's website.

TheSouthMoroccan
13-06-2016, 12:30 PM
After reading this thread I had a wee google of Russian Ultras on YouTube. These folk are hardcore, meeting up with their rivals in the woods, all colour coded so they know who is who and marching in formation into each other. No pavement dancing for these boys, I reckon the English fans got off lightly the other night. No disrespect to our tastier sorts, but these guys have taken it to a whole new level.

Jim44
13-06-2016, 12:30 PM
Did I hear correctly a few minutes ago, as reported by the BBC, that only 2 Russian and 6 English fans had been arrested in Marseilles?

SJM
13-06-2016, 12:33 PM
Anyone else see the Russian mp saying there's nothing wrong with the fighting, it's the frenchs fault for not stopping and well done to the boys 😂😂😂

SJM
13-06-2016, 12:34 PM
Did I hear correctly a few minutes ago, as reported by the BBC, that only 2 Russian and 6 English fans had been arrested in Marseilles?

It's the equivelent of police doing **** all any time rangers come to town. Would you risk your life trying to arrest they Russian bams? No danger. Absolute nap the arrests will be for some weedy kid launching a bottle or something.

Ged
13-06-2016, 12:36 PM
Anyone else see the Russian mp saying there's nothing wrong with the fighting, it's the frenchs fault for not stopping and well done to the boys 

Here's what he said


But Russian MP Igor Lebedev criticised French police and called on Russian football fans to "keep up the good work".

"I see nothing wrong with football fans fighting. On the contrary, well done to our boys! Keep up the good work!" he tweeted.

"What happened in Marseille and other French cities is not the fans' fault. It is down to the police's inability to organise and hold such events," he wrote in a separate tweet the same day.

Mr Lebedev said fans needed to be "protected", adding: "We'll deal with them when they get home".


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36515213

SJM
13-06-2016, 12:38 PM
Here's what he said



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36515213

That's crazy. Bat**** mental. Yet some will still lay the blame on the English.

I didn't think I would ever see a madder comment than the rangers officials after we won the cup but there it is.

Onion
13-06-2016, 01:10 PM
Were England fans in the wrong part of the stadium? I've not seen any reports which suggest that.

What happened in the stadium was entirely the fault of organised Russian hooligans.

I'm disgusted by some of the behaviour of English supporters, but they're being blamed for far more than they deserve.

You could see England fans in every part of the ground and certainly no suggestion the the Russians were in the England section. We've all been to high tension games in our lives and all know if you sit in any section that's not specifically designated for your own fans, you need to be extra vigilant and keep a low profile. Bad organisation and policing certainly were a factor, but proper footie fans would have realised they were in tricky position, esp with the Russians right next to them.

emerald green
13-06-2016, 01:19 PM
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/alan-pattullo-why-uefa-should-be-in-dock-with-england-and-russia-1-4152861

EUFA are not entirely blameless either, as the above article explains.

DH1875
13-06-2016, 01:34 PM
As if the French police and security don't have enough to deal with. The terror threat is at maximum and now they also have to deal with these drunken morons tryna play the big hard man act.


Many of the England fans have been a disgrace. Its a shame for their genuine supporters who are over there just having a good time, not causing any bother as most of the images coming out in the press is only seeing the idiot behaviour side of things. I would be mortified if it was Scotland fans.


Problem being, your average Eastern European hooligan isn't a drunken moron or bum. These guys are highly organised, spend weeks in training if not months and don't touch a drop of alcohol before a fight.

DH1875
13-06-2016, 01:37 PM
Can't have segregation at the Euros or world cups, wouldn't work not when half the tickets go on sale around the world.

Topographic Hibby
13-06-2016, 02:30 PM
Can't have segregation at the Euros or world cups, wouldn't work not when half the tickets go on sale around the world.
Or when organisers sell them to anybody with a valid credit card, without a care for H&S or segregation.

Cash is king in the house of FIFA and UEFA. Preferably in used notes of 20s and 50s that can't be traced.........

marinello59
14-06-2016, 09:20 AM
Being discussed on Kaye Adams just now.

CentreLine
14-06-2016, 09:31 AM
Thought Bradly Welsh came across intelligent thoughtful and informed. Not usually a fan but see him in a very different light from that interview. 👍

marinello59
14-06-2016, 09:32 AM
Thought Bradly Welsh came across intelligent thoughtful and informed. Not usually a fan but see him in a very different light from that interview. 

Totally agree.

Mr White
14-06-2016, 09:46 AM
Thought Bradly Welsh came across intelligent thoughtful and informed. Not usually a fan but see him in a very different light from that interview. 👍

What did he say?

CentreLine
14-06-2016, 09:58 AM
What did he say?

He spoke thoughtfully and intelligently about football violence and some of the social background causes here. Spoke highly of the effective policing and legislation that has, in his words, "killed" football violence here. He used the word "dead" in relation to football violence here several times. He spoke of people maturing and "realising the folly" of football violence.

He referred knowledgeably to what has happened in particular in Eastern Europe and drew parallels with the Scotland/UK of the 1980s. He said he was shocked by the organised nature of the Russians. Possibly where I did not agree was where he thought the Russian thugs, he referred to them as "football hooligans", may be government sponsored and thought they were trained soldiers and police. But who is to say he is wrong.

Haymaker
14-06-2016, 10:09 AM
He spoke thoughtfully and intelligently about football violence and some of the social background causes here. Spoke highly of the effective policing and legislation that has, in his words, "killed" football violence here. He used the word "dead" in relation to football violence here several times. He spoke of people maturing and "realising the folly" of football violence.

He referred knowledgeably to what has happened in particular in Eastern Europe and drew parallels with the Scotland/UK of the 1980s. He said he was shocked by the organised nature of the Russians. Possibly where I did not agree was where he thought the Russian thugs, he referred to them as "football hooligans", may be government sponsored and thought they were trained soldiers and police. But who is to say he is wrong.

They could, of course, be trained EX-soldiers and other security services.

CentreLine
14-06-2016, 10:28 AM
They could, of course, be trained EX-soldiers and other security services.

Yep. I believe most Russians are required to have some military service so that is most likely.

Mr White
14-06-2016, 10:37 AM
He spoke thoughtfully and intelligently about football violence and some of the social background causes here. Spoke highly of the effective policing and legislation that has, in his words, "killed" football violence here. He used the word "dead" in relation to football violence here several times. He spoke of people maturing and "realising the folly" of football violence.

He referred knowledgeably to what has happened in particular in Eastern Europe and drew parallels with the Scotland/UK of the 1980s. He said he was shocked by the organised nature of the Russians. Possibly where I did not agree was where he thought the Russian thugs, he referred to them as "football hooligans", may be government sponsored and thought they were trained soldiers and police. But who is to say he is wrong.
Cheers :aok:

21.05.2016
14-06-2016, 10:58 AM
Russian handed a suspended disqualification and a fine of 150,000 euros

cabbageandribs1875
14-06-2016, 11:04 AM
BREAKINGSuspended Euro 2016 ban for Russia

Posted at11:56
So Russia remain at Euro 2016, but would face being kicked out of there is further violence involving their supporters.
Uefa has also fined Russia 150,000 euros (nearly £120,000).

Smartie
14-06-2016, 11:27 AM
UEFA will be praying that Russia get knocked out before they have to flex their muscles.

Could be fun next few days in Lille.

Haymaker
14-06-2016, 11:27 AM
Only applys to violence inside stadiums.

Since90+2
14-06-2016, 11:35 AM
If the threat of expulsion from the tournament only applies to further violence in or around the stadium there is nothing to stop the Russians running amok in the streets of Lille. And I would fully expect them to do that.

Posh Swanny
14-06-2016, 12:45 PM
Lille is going to be an absolute powderkeg this week with UEFA advising England and Wales fans pre-tournament that Lille would be a more suitable base for them than Lens. My mates who have stuck around in France changed plans rather abruptly on Sunday morning and are sunning themselves for an extra few days in Nice until Thursday morning instead - several hundred pounds poorer but much, much safer!

LustForLeith
14-06-2016, 12:49 PM
If the threat of expulsion from the tournament only applies to further violence in or around the stadium there is nothing to stop the Russians running amok in the streets of Lille. And I would fully expect them to do that.

What I'm missing is that have England not been threatened with punishment but UEFA are not taking into account fighting outside the stadium. So if that's the case are England under scrutiny after being charged by "150 well trained Russian hooligans"? if so it's not really fair.

What exactly are the parameters for fighting around the stadium?

the events the other night was the worst advert for the World Cup being held in Russia. So imagine the fans behave now and nothing happens until the World Cup, what are they going to do then? Kick out the host nation?!?

If events like this continue I don't see why Russia can't be kicked out of the competition and have the rights to host the World Cup taken away from them.

Bristolhibby
14-06-2016, 01:11 PM
If the threat of expulsion from the tournament only applies to further violence in or around the stadium there is nothing to stop the Russians running amok in the streets of Lille. And I would fully expect them to do that.

If that's the case (and I have no reason to doubt that), then it's a total cop out by the football world. Can't have an event in a city then admonish the people there in the city for the event. The two go hand in hand IMHO.

Still, there's nothing to say the Russians won't try the same tactics in Lilles stadium.

Read somewhere that the top Russian nutters/firms are each getting a game each to prove them selves/out do each other.

Saturday was Lokomotivs day. With Spartak and CSKA having their days in subsequent games.

**** me, Imagine if Russia go through and draw Ukraine!!!!

J

Bristolhibby
14-06-2016, 01:13 PM
What I'm missing is that have England not been threatened with punishment but UEFA are not taking into account fighting outside the stadium. So if that's the case are England under scrutiny after being charged by "150 well trained Russian hooligans"? if so it's not really fair.

What exactly are the parameters for fighting around the stadium?

the events the other night was the worst advert for the World Cup being held in Russia. So imagine the fans behave now and nothing happens until the World Cup, what are they going to do then? Kick out the host nation?!?

If events like this continue I don't see why Russia can't be kicked out of the competition and have the rights to host the World Cup taken away from them.

I think it was because English "fans" weren't ranging around Marsailles hunting in packs attacking people with an ultra violent military "Spetsnatz" style. Roided up nutters with Iron bars, MMA gear, gumshields and GoPros.

J

KWJ
14-06-2016, 03:28 PM
the events the other night was the worst advert for the World Cup being held in Russia. So imagine the fans behave now and nothing happens until the World Cup, what are they going to do then? Kick out the host nation?!?

If events like this continue I don't see why Russia can't be kicked out of the competition and have the rights to host the World Cup taken away from them.

The World Cup is FIFA while the Euros are UEFA. FIFA may be having their own meetings right now, I'd hope.

Keith_M
14-06-2016, 05:17 PM
I think it was because English "fans" weren't ranging around Marsailles hunting in packs attacking people with an ultra violent military "Spetsnatz" style. Roided up nutters with Iron bars, MMA gear, gumshields and GoPros.



:agree:

silverhibee
14-06-2016, 06:06 PM
Already kicking off in Lille with Russian English & Welsh fans.

Seems like England & Wales have teamed up to go ahead with the Russians.

KWJ
14-06-2016, 06:12 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/jun/14/euro-2016-russia-world-cup-2018-football-politics-angel-maria-villar-llona

Staggering and worthy of it's own thread.

The_Todd
14-06-2016, 06:31 PM
2018 will be an utter disaster at this rate. What to do though? Is it too late for FIFA to pull the plug on Russia 2018 or will they have a contingency in place in the event the WC ever needs to be moved?

I'm_cabbaged
14-06-2016, 06:34 PM
Already kicking off in Lille with Russian English & Welsh fans.

Seems like England & Wales have teamed up to go ahead with the Russians.

Two Russians giving it the come ahead to a pub packed with English and Welsh. English response? Throw every chair you can get your hands on at them 😂

KWJ
14-06-2016, 06:43 PM
More in depth reporting about how high the trouble goes in Russia.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/jun/13/far-right-activist-euro-2016-russian-fa-alexander-shprygin-nazi-salute

silverhibee
14-06-2016, 07:22 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/football/2016/06/14/100639883_Russian_soccer_fans_suspected_of_being_i nvolved_in_clashes_one_wearing_a_banner_saying_Rus-xlarge_trans++qApl59b1QLe2iruV9yNUMZ-vXmMKq5tlqoY56h9oDOs.jpg

Scottie
14-06-2016, 07:36 PM
2018 will be an utter disaster at this rate. What to do though? Is it too late for FIFA to pull the plug on Russia 2018 or will they have a contingency in place in the event the WC ever needs to be moved?
They could always bring the 2022 World Cup in Qatar forward 4 years and play it in the middle of summer in 120 degrees heat. FIFA at its best :rolleyes:

HUTCHYHIBBY
14-06-2016, 07:38 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/football/2016/06/14/100639883_Russian_soccer_fans_suspected_of_being_i nvolved_in_clashes_one_wearing_a_banner_saying_Rus-xlarge_trans++qApl59b1QLe2iruV9yNUMZ-vXmMKq5tlqoY56h9oDOs.jpg

Salenko has let himself go a bit!

SouthsideHarp_Bhoy
14-06-2016, 07:39 PM
2018 will be an utter disaster at this rate. What to do though? Is it too late for FIFA to pull the plug on Russia 2018 or will they have a contingency in place in the event the WC ever needs to be moved?

There was a russian fitba expert on talk sport today and he was saying it will be very different in russia - becauae they nationalists wont want to embarass russia, and obviously the government wont either.

I suppose the implication is that they dont mind them doing it in france.

Was also a russian journo on guardian podcast and he deliberately didnt go to Marseille, and told the podcast beforehand that it would be mayhem, russian hoolies had earmarled that daye since the draw

CropleyWasGod
14-06-2016, 07:40 PM
They could always bring the 2022 World Cup in Qatar forward 4 years and play it in the middle of summer in 120 degrees heat. FIFA at its best :rolleyes:

Yeah, but make sure you're married to the woman you're there with.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36516006

northstandhibby
14-06-2016, 07:46 PM
I think it was because English "fans" weren't ranging around Marsailles hunting in packs attacking people with an ultra violent military "Spetsnatz" style. Roided up nutters with Iron bars, MMA gear, gumshields and GoPros.

J

:top marks

It looked to me as if the Russian Hooligans were Soldiers from the Red Army dressed in civvies. Must have been terrifying.



Glory Glory

High-On-Hibs
14-06-2016, 08:34 PM
The mainstream media still persistant with the poor little England line. I can guarantee that this won't be the first time in this competition that England fans will "run into trouble" by nasty nutters from (insert any country name here).

marinello59
14-06-2016, 08:38 PM
The mainstream media still persistant with the poor little England line. I can guarantee that this won't be the first time in this competition that England fans will "run into trouble" by nasty nutters from (insert any country name here).

Fact is a lot of innocent England fans have been caught up in trouble.

High-On-Hibs
14-06-2016, 08:42 PM
Fact is a lot of innocent England fans have been caught up in trouble.

There will also be innocent Russian fans and fans from other nations who have been caught up in the trouble as well. But that fact gets lost in the propaganda.

marinello59
14-06-2016, 08:55 PM
There will also be innocent Russian fans and fans from other nations who have been caught up in the trouble as well. But that fact gets lost in the propaganda.

Of course there will. Which makes your ill argued anti-English bias even sadder.

Finn2015
14-06-2016, 08:58 PM
2018 will be an utter disaster at this rate. What to do though? Is it too late for FIFA to pull the plug on Russia 2018 or will they have a contingency in place in the event the WC ever needs to be moved?

If it goes on like this surely it has to be considered?

One Day Soon
14-06-2016, 08:59 PM
The mainstream media still persistant with the poor little England line. I can guarantee that this won't be the first time in this competition that England fans will "run into trouble" by nasty nutters from (insert any country name here).


That's worthy of a deary me. Your England-bad agenda is relentless.

The_Todd
14-06-2016, 08:59 PM
Of course there will. Which makes your ill argued anti-English bias even sadder.

If this forum had a like button I'd be pressing it right about now.

One Day Soon
14-06-2016, 09:04 PM
Already kicking off in Lille with Russian English & Welsh fans.

Seems like England & Wales have teamed up to go ahead with the Russians.


That doesn't surprise me at all. English and Welsh not fond of each other but if the Russians are backing them into a corner Brit solidarity will come to the fore pretty fast. Safety in numbers apart from anything else.

We haven't heard the last of this. Russian para Ultras or not there's no way English - and perhaps other UK - fans won't go looking to settle this score in the future.

KWJ
14-06-2016, 09:14 PM
That doesn't surprise me at all. English and Welsh not fond of each other but if the Russians are backing them into a corner Brit solidarity will come to the fore pretty fast. Safety in numbers apart from anything else.

We haven't heard the last of this. Russian para Ultras or not there's no way English - and perhaps other UK - fans won't go looking to settle this score in the future.

The Rocky IV soundtrack could be back in the charts.

cabbageandribs1875
14-06-2016, 09:18 PM
There will also be innocent Russian fans and fans from other nations who have been caught up in the trouble as well. But that fact gets lost in the propaganda.


:agree:

FifeHibs
14-06-2016, 09:20 PM
Would you feel safe going to a European game in Russia after what has happened at the Euros

LancashireHibby
14-06-2016, 09:22 PM
Would you feel safe going to a European game in Russia after what has happened at the Euros
I'd think it very unlikely that any fans would get a visa anyway at such short notice. But, no, I wouldn't fancy it. Prague would be nice, though to save some cash (and holidays at work), I wouldn't mind a Welsh team first.

BigKev
14-06-2016, 09:23 PM
Young team on its way?

Sir David Gray
14-06-2016, 09:26 PM
2018 will be an utter disaster at this rate. What to do though? Is it too late for FIFA to pull the plug on Russia 2018 or will they have a contingency in place in the event the WC ever needs to be moved?

I can't believe Russia was ever considered to host such an event.

It will be a complete disaster and the events over the last few days have just confirmed that.

degenerated
14-06-2016, 09:32 PM
Of course there will. Which makes your ill argued anti-English bias even sadder.
There's clearly idiots on both sides and admittedly the Russian ones appear to be more dangerous and bigger idiots both literally and metaphorically, but this sort of scene from Lille probably won't help things much. http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160614/dd0e2e95ee029ae9089ca1c9345f88cb.jpg

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Bristolhibby
14-06-2016, 09:51 PM
Anyone seen the video on Twitter of England fans throwing coins at gypsy kids and having a good laugh at their expense?

Shameful.

Edit - Found it

https://twitter.com/kykypyky22/status/742788541080444929

J

cabbageandribs1875
14-06-2016, 10:06 PM
no but i was watching engerlund fans goading innocent russian fans on sky earlier....brave wee innocent souls that they are

cabbageandribs1875
14-06-2016, 10:09 PM
Anyone seen the video on Twitter of England fans throwing coins at gypsy kids and having a good laugh at their expense?

Shameful.

Edit - Found it

https://twitter.com/kykypyky22/status/742788541080444929

J

to be fair i think the wee laddies are welcoming the money :greengrin it's better than getting chairs chucked at them

monktonharp
14-06-2016, 10:53 PM
Would you feel safe going to a European game in Russia after what has happened at the Eurosnot sure, but If I was a fair bit younger I'd be calling that number on the advert to the right of your post. some o' they Russian girls are braw:greengrin

monktonharp
14-06-2016, 11:03 PM
Anyone seen the video on Twitter of England fans throwing coins at gypsy kids and having a good laugh at their expense?

Shameful.

Edit - Found it

https://twitter.com/kykypyky22/status/742788541080444929

Jyou never been to a wedding in Scotland? it's called a pooroot! leaving a church, a registrar office,wherever it used to be traditional to throw coins to the ground. kids always scrambled to grab it, and sometimes their Ma stood on the silver ones, to get them for their ain bairns! cant see how it is humility, if wee yins have nowt and the boys are just giving them their loose change.:confused:

The_Todd
15-06-2016, 08:11 AM
not sure, but If I was a fair bit younger I'd be calling that number on the advert to the right of your post. some o' they Russian girls are braw:greengrin

I'm sure the adverts are based on your own internet history :wink:

bigwheel
15-06-2016, 08:14 AM
I'm sure the adverts are based on your own internet history :wink:

Hahaha. That made me laugh

Hibbyradge
15-06-2016, 08:23 AM
Uefa has also fined Russia 150,000 euros (nearly £120,000).

It always makes me laugh how newspapers always have to convert foreign currency into pounds. I know it makes the figures more understandable, but it tickles me for some reason.

In that spirit, I'd suggest that the Russian FA pay that fine before the Brexit referendum.

If the UK votes to leave, the pound will crash and €150k will soon be worth £150k. :greengrin

Mind you, the Euro will probably drop in value against the Ruble too so waiting would be the better bet.

Bristolhibby
15-06-2016, 02:17 PM
you never been to a wedding in Scotland? it's called a pooroot! leaving a church, a registrar office,wherever it used to be traditional to throw coins to the ground. kids always scrambled to grab it, and sometimes their Ma stood on the silver ones, to get them for their ain bairns! cant see how it is humility, if wee yins have nowt and the boys are just giving them their loose change.:confused:

Na it's the laughing at them scrabbling around for their amusement. If they were that concerned about poverty, just give them the money or some food.

It's exploiting the kids poverty for their entertainment. And it looks totally Shan.

J

Green Reaper
15-06-2016, 02:25 PM
Young team on its way?

The Russians will be bricking it 😀

pacoluna
15-06-2016, 02:30 PM
Looks like they are doing a good job of getting chucked out anyway on the field, they haven't impressed me at all. How did England only manage a draw with this lot even though according to some they played " excellent".

SlickShoes
15-06-2016, 02:30 PM
Nae need to kick them out now they look dead and buried already, Wales can finish the job next week.

EDIT: well done me I've jinxed the slovaks

Viva_Palmeiras
15-06-2016, 05:46 PM
There's clearly idiots on both sides and admittedly the Russian ones appear to be more dangerous and bigger idiots both literally and metaphorically, but this sort of scene from Lille probably won't help things much. http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160614/dd0e2e95ee029ae9089ca1c9345f88cb.jpg

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

I'm just trying to work out what a micro brasserie is - a training bra?

3pm
15-06-2016, 06:09 PM
Sounds like a quiet day in Lille today.

silverhibee
15-06-2016, 06:28 PM
Sounds like a quiet day in Lille today.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/06/15/euro-2016-crowd-violence-england-russia-and-wales-fans-fresh-cla/

Hibrandenburg
15-06-2016, 09:53 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/06/15/euro-2016-crowd-violence-england-russia-and-wales-fans-fresh-cla/

Listening to sky news it sounds like the poor wee lambs are being picked on by the nasty French polis again.

silverhibee
15-06-2016, 10:16 PM
Listening to sky news it sounds like the poor wee lambs are being picked on by the nasty French polis again.

Just watching sky news just now and they had a live feed with England & France fans pushing & shoving going on then it kicked off and the England fans attacked and chased the French supporters, sky news cut the feed and moved quickly on to another story.

jodjam
15-06-2016, 10:31 PM
Just watching sky news just now and they had a live feed with England & France fans pushing & shoving going on then it kicked off and the England fans attacked and chased the French supporters, sky news cut the feed and moved quickly on to another story.

I tweeted the sky news anchor who is a scots lad and to be fair he replied in the break. His reply was that Russian and Slovaks were involved. Nonsense

Danderhall Hibs
15-06-2016, 10:33 PM
So are we saying that Sky had a news story live on camera and turned the other way?

degenerated
15-06-2016, 10:39 PM
So are we saying that Sky had a news story live on camera and turned the other way?
It could certainly be construed that way, as soon as it kicked off they cut to the studio.

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silverhibee
15-06-2016, 10:45 PM
So are we saying that Sky had a news story live on camera and turned the other way?

The newsman was talking about what had been happening through the day while showing a live feed of English & French fans goading each other and it moved on to some pushing then the England fans run and attack the French fans and the feed is cut and the newsman goes straight to another story about Bob Geldof on a boat, they should have kept the live feed running to see how things were escalating in Lille but it seemed they didn't want to show that it was the England fans doing the attacking.

silverhibee
15-06-2016, 10:47 PM
I tweeted the sky news anchor who is a scots lad and to be fair he replied in the break. His reply was that Russian and Slovaks were involved. Nonsense

Pretty clear it was only English & French fans involved.

degenerated
15-06-2016, 10:53 PM
Pretty clear it was only English & French fans involved.
I was watching a feed of it on periscope and it seemed that was the case.

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silverhibee
15-06-2016, 10:59 PM
Lets see if sky news show the feed from a hour ago in a few minutes again.

silverhibee
15-06-2016, 11:00 PM
I was watching a feed of it on periscope and it seemed that was the case.

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

Old guy in white t shirt and white hair kept on punching French fans.

degenerated
15-06-2016, 11:07 PM
Old guy in white t shirt and white hair kept on punching French fans.
They've shown the entirely same reports again but that whole bit of them attacking the French supporters has been cut out now.

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silverhibee
15-06-2016, 11:09 PM
Lets see if sky news show the feed from a hour ago in a few minutes again.

And sky news fail to show the live feed a hour a go of English fans attacking French fans and blame the police for all the trouble tonight. :rolleyes:

silverhibee
15-06-2016, 11:11 PM
They've shown the entirely same reports again but that whole bit of them attacking the French supporters has been cut out now.

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

Yip, just watched it, how strange eh.

JOD
15-06-2016, 11:12 PM
I can't believe Russia was ever considered to host such an event.

It will be a complete disaster and the events over the last few days have just confirmed that.

What a lot of pish If you think those cowardly English thugs would get away with away with their nonsense in Russia you are

mistaken my friend. It will be the most peaceful world cup ever. Just hope we make it

JOD
15-06-2016, 11:20 PM
Russia caused trouble at all of their Euro 2012 games.

Was there violence from England fans?

Hassle again in Lille of course that will no be English fans will It ?????

Who can we blame this time ? Must be the Welsh then !!!

Wake up and smell the coffee FFS.

The Baldmans Comb
16-06-2016, 04:42 AM
I hear UEFA will meet today to throw England out of the competition after more serious trouble last night though cleverely editited by the mainstream media to minimize the impact.

Aye right Tonto empty threats of course as absolutely nothing will happen.

Scorrie
16-06-2016, 05:58 AM
I hear UEFA will meet today to throw England out of the competition after more serious trouble last night though cleverely editited by the mainstream media to minimize the impact.

Aye right Tonto empty threats of course as absolutely nothing will happen.

Where did you hear this? Not doubting you, just curious

Hibrandenburg
16-06-2016, 06:02 AM
Sky reporting that England fans clashed with police after police moved in. 36 arrests and 16 hospitalised. Poor wee lambs.

Callum_62
16-06-2016, 06:15 AM
Good Morning Britain just ran a report claiming it was a 'cultural clash' and its was all the polices fault

No jokes.

Topographic Hibby
16-06-2016, 06:31 AM
Old guy in white t shirt and white hair kept on punching French fans.
I watched a bit on Sky last night where the old boy was up for it. Lots of young guys giving it "calm down, calm down" and he had his arm raised and fist clench ready to steam in, which he then did. Pretty clear pic and UK polis should be able to ID pretty easily. Makes a change from trying to ID umpteen fat, balding beer-belly Mitchell brother types.

Hibbyradge
16-06-2016, 08:05 AM
Hassle again in Lille of course that will no be English fans will It ?????

Who can we blame this time ? Must be the Welsh then !!!

Wake up and smell the coffee FFS.

Did you mean to to me? :confused:

I was talking about Russian fans causing trouble in 2012 and asking if England fans caused bother too.