Would Brexit harm Scottish domestic football?

[Hibbyradge]

At close of play on 21 May, there were 3 players at Hibs who were from the European Union. Logan, Gunnarson and Stokes. We've had loads of others in the past such as Matty Jack, Lehman, Zitelli, Suazee and Mixu etc etc.

If the UK left Europe, these players would presumably require to apply for work permits and no doubt, there would be a limit to how many foreign players each club would be allowed to register.

That's not a good thing for the clubs, imo, although you could argue, it would give some of the lesser Scottish players a chance and they might improve with the experience.

Or have I got this wrong?

[Haymaker]

At close of play on 21 May, there were 3 players at Hibs who were from the European Union. Logan, Gunnarson and Stokes. We've had loads of others in the past such as Matty Jack, Lehman, Zitelli, Suazee and Mixu etc etc.

If the UK left Europe, these players would presumably require to apply for work permits and no doubt, there would be a limit to how many foreign players each club would be allowed to register.

That's not a good thing for the clubs, imo, although you could argue, it would give some of the lesser Scottish players a chance and they might improve with the experience.

Or have I got this wrong?


They would certainly have to apply for work permits/visas however it would be up to the league to apply a quota.

I doubt the BPL will want a quota and we will follow suit I should imagine.

[JeMeSouviens]

At close of play on 21 May, there were 3 players at Hibs who were from the European Union. Logan, Gunnarson and Stokes. We've had loads of others in the past such as Matty Jack, Lehman, Zitelli, Suazee and Mixu etc etc.

If the UK left Europe, these players would presumably require to apply for work permits and no doubt, there would be a limit to how many foreign players each club would be allowed to register.

That's not a good thing for the clubs, imo, although you could argue, it would give some of the lesser Scottish players a chance and they might improve with the experience.

Or have I got this wrong?

That's not how it works for non-EU players atm.

http://stv.tv/sport/football/193378-explained-uk-work-permit-rules-for-footballers/

Presumably worst (as in most restrictive to Hibs, I'm not commenting on political judgement here) case those rules would apply to all foreign imports including the current EU countries.

However, there are other scenarios such as the UK staying in the EEA (as per Norway) or having a bilateral deal with the EU that has reciprocal employment rights (as per Switzerland).

[Thecat23]

We are leaving the E.U we aren't leaving Europe. That's of course if we did vote to leave.

[Diclonius]

Scottish football would be just one of the numerous casualties as a result of Britain leaving the EU.

[ScottB]

If they had to follow the rules of current non EU foreign players, they'd need work permits.

Probably wouldn't be an issue in the EPL, but would be up here given we aren't usually signing guys who are regulars at international level for their respective nations.

[ScottB]

We are leaving the E.U we aren't leaving Europe. That's of course if we did vote to leave.

But if we leave the single market, which seems to be their intent, free movement of people goes with it, I doubt footballers would get an exception.

[SkintHibby]

Scottish football would be just one of the numerous casualties as a result of Britain leaving the EU. Aye whatever!

[mmmmhibby]

But if we leave the single market, which seems to be their intent, free movement of people goes with it, I doubt footballers would get an exception.

lol

[Scorrie]

Gunnarson isn't from the EU. He's Norwegian so assume he had to have a work permit? Same system would probably work if we left the EU. Might slow things down a bit in getting and playing players...

[WhileTheChief..]

The government would decide if work permits are required or not.

We have nothing to worry about as it will be the same for all clubs in the UK.

Rules will be changed to accommodate the EPL teams and we will all benefit from said changes.

[jacomo]

Hard to know, because we've got no idea what Brexit will mean.

Some of them say we'll stay part of the single market, with all that it entails. So, free movement of people, Britain still contributing financially to the EU, just as we are... but no say in how EU is run.

Some say we should remove all trade barriers, and then we'll have a rapid race to the bottom and all our remaining industry will die. Few of us will be able to afford t watch football anymore.

Some want to kick out all the foreigners.

Maybe it will mean an end to these fancy continental ideas about fitness and diet? British football can go back to the good old days of booze and kebabs the night before a game, and a crafty snout at half time.


:wink:

[KNBE]

Gunnarson isn't from the EU. He's Norwegian so assume he had to have a work permit? Same system would probably work if we left the EU. Might slow things down a bit in getting and playing players...
Norway's part of the European Economic Area though and EEA citizens don't need work permits to work in the UK as I understand it.

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[Liberal Hibby]

I would think any Brexit vote would be swiftly followed by Indyref 2 with the likelihood of a Yes this time with Scotland remaining in the EU, but not in the UK.

[Haymaker]

Maybe it will mean an end to these fancy continental ideas about fitness and diet? British football can go back to the good old days of booze and kebabs the night before a game, and a crafty snout at half time.



At my local club that is a quiet one, we usually don't get in until 3am and beers on the sidelines!

We never seem to do very well though. Don't know why.

[NAE NOOKIE]

As I understand it people from the Irish republic have always pretty well had an open door to the UK for historical reasons EU or not, I doubt that would change.

Players from outwith the EU are unlikely to get work permits unless they are current internationals .... no problem for the rich English clubs and possibly Celtic, but its a policy that prevents clubs like us from signing lesser known players, or people who are no longer international players, from the likes of Japan, South America or Africa. If the UK left the free movement agreement and the government kept the same policy its unlikely we would ever be able to sign a foreign player.

Say goodbye to the likes of Frank Sauzee, David Zitelli, Russell Latapy ( think he had a Portuguese passport ), Matty Jack, Dom Malonga, etc ...... not the sort of players we are signing just now, but we may want to in the future.

I'm not a huge fan of packing the team with foreign players anyway, but if we do leave the EU I can see the day where the clubs who cant afford the millions it costs to sign full international players get together to challenge the government in court ..... its clearly unfair that the law as it stands in effect prevents small clubs from signing players from abroad while allowing big clubs to do so.

Even though the rules as they stand do not in writing say poor clubs cant sign foreign players the law in practice does exactly that .... I'm sure rules and laws can be challenged on a point of principal.

[High-On-Hibs]

Do you mean a Scexit?

A Brexit will have no long term implications on Scotland, or Scottish Football.

[JeMeSouviens]

Norway's part of the European Economic Area though and EEA citizens don't need work permits to work in the UK as I understand it.

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Correct.

Nor do the Swiss who aren't in the EEA but have a deal with all EU countries that allows them to work here and us there.

Nobody knows what a post-Brexit landscape would look like.

[Smartie]

Hard to know, because we've got no idea what Brexit will mean.

Some of them say we'll stay part of the single market, with all that it entails. So, free movement of people, Britain still contributing financially to the EU, just as we are... but no say in how EU is run.

Some say we should remove all trade barriers, and then we'll have a rapid race to the bottom and all our remaining industry will die. Few of us will be able to afford t watch football anymore.

Some want to kick out all the foreigners.

Maybe it will mean an end to these fancy continental ideas about fitness and diet? British football can go back to the good old days of booze and kebabs the night before a game, and a crafty snout at half time.


:wink:

Finally - a credible argument in favour of Brexit that I can actually relate to!

Sign me up.

[Geo_1875]

Correct.

Nor do the Swiss who aren't in the EEA but have a deal with all EU countries that allows them to work here and us there.

Nobody knows what a post-Brexit landscape would look like.

Apparently it's something like this
16894

[pacoluna]

I would think any Brexit vote would be swiftly followed by Indyref 2 with the likelihood of a Yes this time with Scotland remaining in the EU, but not in the UK.
I'm abstaining from this vote because of this, I want to remain in the EU however want Scotland to be Independent so i'm torn between. The overwhelming majority of Scottish voters will vote remain I think, However if this has no effect on the outcome it must lead to a second referendum which obviously I want.

[Hibbyradge]

Gunnarson isn't from the EU. He's Norwegian so assume he had to have a work permit? Same system would probably work if we left the EU. Might slow things down a bit in getting and playing players...

I knew that. I meant Virtanen.

[JeMeSouviens]

I'm abstaining from this vote because of this, I want to remain in the EU however want Scotland to be Independent so i'm torn. The overwhelming majority of Scottish voters will vote remain I think However if this has no effect on the outcome it must lead to second referendum which obviously I want.

Me too. Straying onto "Holy Ground" territory but it will make our transition to independence easier if rUK is not simultaneously transitioning out of the EU. Both imo will cause some unquantifiable (but nowhere near as bad as the doom-mongers would have it) short term pain. Actually the huge steaming amount of ***** coming out of Cameron & co almost makes me want to vote leave just to stick 2 fingers up but I am at heart a Remainer and that's what I'll vote.

There will be a 2nd Indyref as soon as it looks winnable. :wink:

[High-On-Hibs]

Apparently it's something like this
16894

It's more like this....

http://oi65.tinypic.com/2mfhkjs.jpg

Wonder how long it will take them to mention asteroids and alien invasions.

[Ozyhibby]

The Yams have got an American playing for them and they are not in the EU.
After Brexit, everything will carry on much like before but with lower prices.


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[jgl07]

Correct.

Nor do the Swiss who aren't in the EEA but have a deal with all EU countries that allows them to work here and us there.

Nobody knows what a post-Brexit landscape would look like.
Switzerland are in European Free Trade Area (EFTA) and get the relative free movement of labour via that.

The problem is that most of the Leave camp are opposed to immigration and would not advocate joining either the EEA or EFTA.

So work permits would be required in that scenario.

[Thecat23]

The Yams have got an American playing for them and they are not in the EU.
After Brexit, everything will carry on much like before but with lower prices.


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Totally agree. I just don't get the scare mongering that many believe or say. We will carry on and be stronger and better for it imo. I'm not telling folk how to vote btw if you believe different that's fine.

[Ozyhibby]

As for Stokes and Logan, Irish citizens have been allowed to live, work and vote in the UK since 1922 and has nothing to do with the EU at all.


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[Hibbyradge]

lol

Is he wrong?

I thought the control of immigration and stopping free movement within the EU were key issues for the leave campaign.

Why would the Home Office make an exception for football players and not, say, hotel staff or plumbers?

[Hibbyradge]

The Yams have got an American playing for them and they are not in the EU.
After Brexit, everything will carry on much like before but with lower prices.


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He will have had to apply for a work permit.

[Geo_1875]

Switzerland are in European Free Trade Area (EFTA) and get the relative free movement of labour via that.

The problem is that most of the Leave camp are opposed to immigration and would not advocate joining either the EEA or EFTA.

So work permits would be required in that scenario.

The reason they're opposed to immigration is they want British citizens to supply the cheap labour required to keep their capitalist empire alive. Once we're all employed (or dead) they'll happily allow foreigners into the country to take our place.

[JeMeSouviens]

Switzerland are in European Free Trade Area (EFTA) and get the relative free movement of labour via that.

The problem is that most of the Leave camp are opposed to immigration and would not advocate joining either the EEA or EFTA.

So work permits would be required in that scenario.

This is true but it won't be a decision just for them. It will be for the government, possibly with Cameron still in charge, and ultimately whatever is implemented will have to get through the House of Commons.

The referendum just says "leave the EU" and if Leave win that will have to be respected. However, I would not be at all surprised to see a deal as per CH or Norway that ends up with the UK inside the single market and hence free movement between the EU and UK. The pressure from business on both sides will be huge.

[Cameron1875]

It won't happen so nothing to worry about :)

[Spike Mandela]

Hibs have been masters at leaving Europe for around 60 years.:cb

[PeeJay]

As I understand it people from the Irish republic have always pretty well had an open door to the UK for historical reasons EU or not, I doubt that would change.



Are you sure? If the UK exits the EU there will surely be border checks between Eire and NI - or failing that between NI and mainland UK: isn't this what having "sovereign control of UK borders" effectively means? An open border with Eire would be an open door to the UK for anyone in the EU wishing to enter the UK ... :confused:

[Ozyhibby]

Are you sure? If the UK exits the EU there will surely be border checks between Eire and NI - or failing that between NI and mainland UK: isn't this what having "sovereign control of UK borders" effectively means? An open border with Eire would be an open door to the UK for anyone in the EU wishing to enter the UK ... :confused:

We have an open door anyway. What they won't be able to do is get a NI number and work here without a work permit.


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[SJM]

Definitely. England would plunge our clubs for even more players to join shan sides down there if work permits are required.

[Weststandwanab]

At close of play on 21 May, there were 3 players at Hibs who were from the European Union. Logan, Gunnarson and Stokes. We've had loads of others in the past such as Matty Jack, Lehman, Zitelli, Suazee and Mixu etc etc.

If the UK left Europe, these players would presumably require to apply for work permits and no doubt, there would be a limit to how many foreign players each club would be allowed to register.

That's not a good thing for the clubs, imo, although you could argue, it would give some of the lesser Scottish players a chance and they might improve with the experience.

Or have I got this wrong?

You do realise that I takes two years to "Brexit" and in that time the status quo remains ?


Scottish football would be just one of the numerous casualties as a result of Britain leaving the EU.

I prefer one of opportunity.


I would think any Brexit vote would be swiftly followed by Indyref 2 with the likelihood of a Yes this time with Scotland remaining in the EU, but not in the UK.

I absolutely agree and it is also my preferred option.


It won't happen so nothing to worry about :)

Remember when they said Hibs would never win the Scottish Cup ? 2016 is s strange year.

[Geo_1875]

Are you sure? If the UK exits the EU there will surely be border checks between Eire and NI - or failing that between NI and mainland UK: isn't this what having "sovereign control of UK borders" effectively means? An open border with Eire would be an open door to the UK for anyone in the EU wishing to enter the UK ... :confused:

That raises an interesting point. The free travel of Irish citizens within the British Isles pre-dates the EU. Should we decide to exit the EU there will obviously be border restrictions enforced. Would it be cheaper to build a wall along the Irish border or to hand NI over to the RoI?

[dangermouse]

Apparently it's something like this
16894

I thought that was when Rangers went into liquidation

[Hibbyradge]

You do realise that I takes two years to "Brexit" and in that time the status remains?

Yes. I'm asking about what would happen if we left the EU.

[greenpaper55]

If brexit happens and we get independence up here as the result of that then we will have border controls between England and Scotland due to different immigration policies, something the NATS have not worked out yet !

[Ozyhibby]

That raises an interesting point. The free travel of Irish citizens within the British Isles pre-dates the EU. Should we decide to exit the EU there will obviously be border restrictions enforced. Would it be cheaper to build a wall along the Irish border or to hand NI over to the RoI?

There would be no need to change the border arrangements in Ireland. EU citizens will still be able to travel to the UK. They just won't be able to work here without a permit. Irish citizens will, of course still be able to live and work here.


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[Ozyhibby]

If brexit happens and we get independence up here as the result of that then we will have border controls between England and Scotland due to different immigration policies, something the NATS have not worked out yet !

A lot of 'ifs' there.


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[Hibbyradge]

Hibs have been masters at leaving Europe for around 60 years.:cb

http://s33.postimg.org/5lfelc2vj/Ckfr_Uct_W0_AAa8_JQ_jpg_large.jpg

[Hibbyradge]

Irish citizens will, of course still be able to live and work here.



Why would that be? Why not French people or Swedes for example?

[Ozyhibby]

Why would that be? Why not French people or Swedes for example?

Because they don't have the same deal as the Irish have had for nearly a hundred years now and has nothing to do with the EU.


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[ScottB]

Because they don't have the same deal as the Irish have had for nearly a hundred years now and has nothing to do with the EU.


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But there is no guarantee that that would continue, it might, it might not. As per, nobody knows for sure, as the Leave group are by no means unified, and the current government, or at least its leadership, would likely fall within days of a Brexit vote.

[Geo_1875]

Because they don't have the same deal as the Irish have had for nearly a hundred years now and has nothing to do with the EU.


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So you think that we'd have visa free access for EU citizens and a side deal with RoI?

[RecobasUncle]

Depends on whatever London does. Though I'm doubtful the UK government would put anything related to Scottish football on its' 'stuff they actually care about' list.

[JeMeSouviens]

So you think that we'd have visa free access for EU citizens and a side deal with RoI?

Our agreement with the RoI predates that with the rest of the EU:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Travel_Area#Irish_citizens_in_Britain

[Colr]

At close of play on 21 May, there were 3 players at Hibs who were from the European Union. Logan, Gunnarson and Stokes. We've had loads of others in the past such as Matty Jack, Lehman, Zitelli, Suazee and Mixu etc etc.

If the UK left Europe, these players would presumably require to apply for work permits and no doubt, there would be a limit to how many foreign players each club would be allowed to register.

That's not a good thing for the clubs, imo, although you could argue, it would give some of the lesser Scottish players a chance and they might improve with the experience.

Or have I got this wrong?

If there's a Brexit vote, it makes no sense for Scotland to stay in the UK and following a rapid Indy2 vote would negotiate to remain in the EU.

[cam2644]

Agree 100%

I would think any Brexit vote would be swiftly followed by Indyref 2 with the likelihood of a Yes this time with Scotland remaining in the EU, but not in the UK.

[Ozyhibby]

I don't think an indyref 2 will follow Brexit to be honest. There are a lot more ducks the SNP will want to get in a row before going back to the public again.


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[Hibbyradge]

I don't think an indyref 2 will follow Brexit to be honest. There are a lot more ducks the SNP will want to get in a row before going back to the public again.


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I agree but this is going off topic.

Brexit will make things more difficult for Scottish Football Clubs, imo, even if we do agree a separate arrangement with ROI.

[Eyrie]

The fate of Scottish football isn't going to make a difference to how I vote in the referendum, so I couldn't care less whether it will benefit or suffer.

[Ozyhibby]

The fate of Scottish football isn't going to make a difference to how I vote in the referendum, so I couldn't care less whether it will benefit or suffer.

Exactly. Scottish football needs to stop the self harming before I give it a second thought in this debate.


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[Hibbyradge]

The fate of Scottish football isn't going to make a difference to how I vote in the referendum, so I couldn't care less whether it will benefit or suffer.

Good for you, but this is a discussion about the future of our national game, not your voting intentions!

[Eyrie]

Good for you, but this is a discussion about the future of our national game, not your voting intentions!

The title clearly states "Brexit", so it isn't about the future of football in Scotland.

There is plenty of work to be done to improve the standards here, both on and off the pitch, regardless of whether we are properly independent, independent in Europe, part of both the UK and EU or leave the EU.