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View Full Version : Hibs must now emphasise our zero tolerance of sectarianism on all sides



Hibernia&Alba
08-06-2016, 06:02 PM
I'm optimistic Neil Lennon can produce the goods on the pitch, but, like others, my worry is the media circus, particularly on the sectarianism issue, could become the bigger story. When Lennon is appointed, it would be good to hear the club clearly set out its expectations from day one: that there will be zero tolerance of sectarian behaviour directed towards, or coming from, Hibs employees and supporters, which could be an opportunity to nip this in the bud from the get go. We can't have the non-football issues that have previously followed Lennon around detracting from the aim of promotion. We don't want a circus but need the good name of the club and the fans on this issue maintained. I'd like Hibs to make it clear that all instances of bigotry of any kind will be reported to the football authorities and the police and left in their hands. Edinburgh isn't Glasgow, and we can't have the madness that surrounded Lennon at Celtic once again igniting, nor have the issue overshadowing the club. We all have a duty to uphold sanity when the nutters in Scottish society start their inevitable nonsense. Make sure everybody knows the score and then let's try to enjoy the football :aok:

Keith_M
08-06-2016, 06:11 PM
...zero tolerance of sectarian behaviour directed towards, or coming from, Hibs employees and supporters...



:confused:

Hibernia&Alba
08-06-2016, 06:18 PM
:confused:

Lennon himself was caught using sectarian language during an Old Firm game, which was inexcusable despite the provocation. Getting dragged into the sectarian gutter can only add to the problem. I think it would be helpful for the club to make it clear where we stand from day one and then let's get on with the football.

erin go bragh
08-06-2016, 06:25 PM
When we reformed in 1891 we were the first non sectarian club in Britain . We're not bigoted .

Keith_M
08-06-2016, 06:28 PM
Lennon himself was caught using sectarian language during an Old Firm game, which was inexcusable despite the provocation. Getting dragged into the sectarian gutter can only add to the problem. I think it would be helpful for the club to make it clear where we stand from day one and then let's get on with the football.


OK, thanks


:aok:

HibsNutter
08-06-2016, 06:29 PM
Em, no. If Lennon is every involved in racism then come down on him, like any other employee or fan. In the meantime trust that he is a decent person and has learned from any past problems.

Sectarianism has never been a problem at this club during my lifetime, nor do I foresee it becoming a problem.

Hibernia&Alba
08-06-2016, 06:32 PM
When we reformed in 1891 we were the first non sectarian club in Britain . We're not bigoted .

Of course we aren't bigoted. Our support never partakes in sectarian chanting; we welcome all, and what passes for run of the mill behaviour in Glasgow won't be tolerated here. Let's put this on the record right from the start of Lennon's tenure, then we can focus on getting promoted, leaving the non football problems to the proper authorities; though it must be said they've been very good at turning a deaf ear for over a century.

Hibernia&Alba
08-06-2016, 06:35 PM
Em, no. If Lennon is every involved in racism then come down on him, like any other employee or fan. In the meantime trust that he is a decent person and has learned from any past problems.

Sectarianism has never been a problem at this club during my lifetime, nor do I foresee it becoming a problem.

We'll be the target of the abuse in 99.9 per cent of occasions. The sectarian hatred from The Rangers was all too clear at the cup final; just imagine what it would have been like if Neil Lennon had been manager. We shouldn't have to put up with that.

Smartie
08-06-2016, 06:36 PM
I'm optimistic Neil Lennon can produce the goods on the pitch, but, like others, my worry is the media circus, particularly on the sectarianism issue, could become the bigger story. When Lennon is appointed, it would be good to hear the club clearly set out its expectations from day one: that there will be zero tolerance of sectarian behaviour directed towards, or coming from, Hibs employees and supporters, which could be an opportunity to nip this in the bud from the get go. We can't have the non-football issues that have previously followed Lennon around detracting from the aim of promotion. We don't want a circus but need the good name of the club and the fans on this issue maintained. I'd like Hibs to make it clear that all instances of bigotry of any kind will be reported to the football authorities and the police and left in their hands. Edinburgh isn't Glasgow, and we can't have the madness that surrounded Lennon at Celtic once again igniting, nor have the issue overshadowing the club. We all have a duty to uphold sanity when the nutters in Scottish society start their inevitable nonsense. Make sure everybody knows the score and then let's try to enjoy the football :aok:

Excellent post.

It may not be universally popular but I see what you're trying to do and wholeheartedly agree.

Sectarianism is a two-sided coin and neither side is acceptable. Zero tolerance should be the approach and it should mean exactly that - ZERO tolerance, not a wee bit of whataboutery to excuse the inexcusable.

We should take the lead on this.

I don't accept that we have a significant problem with sectarianism - anything we do have is so small as to be practically negligible, but it would do us no harm to re-emphasis our desire to keep it that way.

We could do with having an immaculate moral high ground given what might start coming our way from elsewhere……..

paddy1875
08-06-2016, 06:39 PM
Lennon himself was caught using sectarian language during an Old Firm game, which was inexcusable despite the provocation. Getting dragged into the sectarian gutter can only add to the problem. I think it would be helpful for the club to make it clear where we stand from day one and then let's get on with the football.

What did he say?

Doing that would be like signing him and giving him a row before anything happens.

I get that all the time from the Mrs before I leave for the pub or go out. "Right pat, don't you be going out and drinking pints and having fun" even if I'm away out to grab the rolls and papers. It makes me want to do it more.

While I have my own views on certain things, I'd never shout anything that would upset another supporter, well the odd swear word yes. Nothing sectarian.

I think we owe Neil Lennon the decency to not bring anything like this up. The guys not daft....anymore

jacomo
08-06-2016, 06:39 PM
Make it clear where we stand?!

We know where we f****** stand!

I'm sure Lennon will be reminded of his responsibilities behind closed doors, but it's not us as a club that needs to address any sectarian issue.

I am sick and tired of Scottish football being dragged into the gutter by this. Nil By Mouth and the rest can f*** off.

We all know where the problems lie. The authorities and those in charge of the bigoted sisters need to deal with it.

HoboHarry
08-06-2016, 06:41 PM
Ridiculous thread. We didn't do that when AS was appointed - we didn't need to then and we don't need to do it now.

HibsNutter
08-06-2016, 06:42 PM
We'll be the target of the abuse in 99.9 per cent of occasions. The sectarian hatred from The Rangers was all too clear at the cup final; just imagine what it would have been like if Neil Lennon had been manager. We shouldn't have to put up with that.

I'd like to think that any form of sectarianism directed at our players/staff would be flagged up by the club, but that would happen after any incident.

BH Hibs
08-06-2016, 06:44 PM
Make it clear where we stand?!

We know where we f****** stand!

I'm sure Lennon will be reminded of his responsibilities behind closed doors, but it's not us as a club that needs to address any sectarian issue.

I am sick and tired of Scottish football being dragged into the gutter by this. Nil By Mouth and the rest can f*** off.

We all know where the problems lie. The authorities and those in charge of the bigoted sisters need to deal with it.

My feelings exactly

Hibernia&Alba
08-06-2016, 06:45 PM
What did he say?

Doing that would be like signing him and giving him a row before anything happens.

I get that all the time from the Mrs before I leave for the pub or go out. "Right pat, don't you be going out and drinking pints and having fun" even if I'm away out to grab the rolls and papers. It makes me want to do it more.

While I have my own views on certain things, I'd never shout anything that would upset another supporter, well the odd swear word yes. Nothing sectarian.

I think we owe Neil Lennon the decency to not bring anything like this up. The guys not daft....anymore

He made it clear at Ibrox that orange isn't his favourite colour, let's put it it that way. Of course he'd had fifty thousand bigots screaming at him all day, but it wasn't acceptable.

Lennon is more sinned against than sinner, no question. When the loonies start their poison, we can't just ignore it, but nor can we have the issue dominating the club.

jacomo
08-06-2016, 06:45 PM
Em, no. If Lennon is every involved in racism then come down on him, like any other employee or fan. In the meantime trust that he is a decent person and has learned from any past problems.

Sectarianism has never been a problem at this club during my lifetime, nor do I foresee it becoming a problem.

Racism? Lol.

I shouted the same thing the other day - Donald Trump was on TV.

Hibernia&Alba
08-06-2016, 06:47 PM
Ridiculous thread. We didn't do that when AS was appointed - we didn't need to then and we don't need to do it now.

Alan Stubbs didn't receive letter bombs, didn't have threats against his life nor was he assaulted on the pitch. We can't have that kind of madness again.

HoboHarry
08-06-2016, 06:53 PM
Alan Stubbs didn't receive letter bombs, didn't have threats against his life nor was he assaulted on the pitch. We can't have that kind of madness again.
They were matters for the police and would be out of Hibs hands if they happened again. That we will not tolerate bigotry is stating the blindingly obvious.

northstandhibby
08-06-2016, 06:55 PM
I'm optimistic Neil Lennon can produce the goods on the pitch, but, like others, my worry is the media circus, particularly on the sectarianism issue, could become the bigger story. When Lennon is appointed, it would be good to hear the club clearly set out its expectations from day one: that there will be zero tolerance of sectarian behaviour directed towards, or coming from, Hibs employees and supporters, which could be an opportunity to nip this in the bud from the get go. We can't have the non-football issues that have previously followed Lennon around detracting from the aim of promotion. We don't want a circus but need the good name of the club and the fans on this issue maintained. I'd like Hibs to make it clear that all instances of bigotry of any kind will be reported to the football authorities and the police and left in their hands. Edinburgh isn't Glasgow, and we can't have the madness that surrounded Lennon at Celtic once again igniting, nor have the issue overshadowing the club. We all have a duty to uphold sanity when the nutters in Scottish society start their inevitable nonsense. Make sure everybody knows the score and then let's try to enjoy the football :aok:

A big YES from me. If there are any issues of impropriety towards Neil or this wonderful club because of sectarian hatred then of course there should be a zero tolerance approach by the club and authorities.

:top marks




Glory Glory

Smartie
08-06-2016, 06:57 PM
They were matters for the police and would be out of Hibs hands if they happened again. That we will not tolerate bigotry is stating the blindingly obvious.

Unfortunately that is exactly what you have to do from time to time, especially when you exist in a country where the raison d'ętre for certain massive sporting institutions is religious bigotry.

paddy1875
08-06-2016, 06:59 PM
He made it clear at Ibrox that orange isn't his favourite colour, let's put it it that way. Of course he'd had fifty thousand bigots screaming at him all day, but it wasn't acceptable. Lennon is more sinned against than sinner, no question. When the loonies start their poison, we can't just ignore it, but nor can we have the issue dominating the club.

Ok, I get you. Your right Lennon is more sinned against than sinner. But I think the club shouldn't be making any statement like this, Hibernian have moved on from the old days. And so has Neil Lennon. I'd think I'd be disrespectful to put out a statement like that. Any other manager wouldn't need a statement like that so either does Lennon. It's like bringing up the past

Finn2015
08-06-2016, 07:02 PM
Ok, I get you. Your right Lennon is more sinned against than sinner. But I think the club shouldn't be making any statement like this, Hibernian have moved on from the old days. And so has Neil Lennon. I'd think I'd be disrespectful to put out a statement like that. Any other manager wouldn't need a statement like that so either does Lennon. It's like bringing up the past

Agreed or making a situation of something that shouldn't be there

hibsbollah
08-06-2016, 07:09 PM
The problem with the idea is any initiative will be viewed through the lens of the already disgraced Scottish mainstream media. It would be a disgusting farce of lies and misrepresentation and you'd have a situation where the Daily Record would describe us as the only club in world football to NEED a policy, hence we are the main culprits.

Alfred E Newman
08-06-2016, 07:10 PM
He made it clear at Ibrox that orange isn't his favourite colour, let's put it it that way. Of course he'd had fifty thousand bigots screaming at him all day, but it wasn't acceptable.

Lennon is more sinned against than sinner, no question. When the loonies start their poison, we can't just ignore it, but nor can we have the issue dominating the club.

Sectarianism hasnt been an issue at the club in all the years I have been following them and I can't for the life of me see the point of raising this sort of stuff just because our manager elect once got caught up in all the old firm nonsense.

snedzuk
08-06-2016, 07:17 PM
He made it clear at Ibrox that orange isn't his favourite colour, let's put it it that way. Of course he'd had fifty thousand bigots screaming at him all day, but it wasn't acceptable.

Lennon is more sinned against than sinner, no question. When the loonies start their poison, we can't just ignore it, but nor can we have the issue dominating the club.

so did John Blackley some years ago now mind.

Hibernia&Alba
08-06-2016, 07:17 PM
Agreed or making a situation of something that shouldn't be there

The situation is there; we all know it, and we know what kind of abuse Lennon and the Hibs support are going to be subjected to. We can either take control of the situation by making it clear from the outset that we are not going to accept the same banal platitudes on this issue that have been said for decades, or we can allow the inevitable events to control us. When the nutters start their antics, we have a position we stick to consistently. Sectarianism has been a running sore in Scottish football for over a century; it's tolerated in a way that racism and homophobia no longer are. We could take a moral stand and make an important contribution against a shameful phenomenon. if not now, when?

Finn2015
08-06-2016, 07:22 PM
The situation is there; we all know it, and we know what kind of abuse Lennon and the Hibs support are going to be subjected to. We can either take control of the situation by making it clear from the outset that we are not going to accept the same banal platitudes on this issue that have been said for decades, or we can allow the inevitable events to control us. When the nutters start their antics, we have a position we stick to consistently. Sectarianism has been a running sore in Scottish football for over a century; it's tolerated in a way that racism and homophobia no longer are. We could take a moral stand and make an important contribution against a shameful phenomenon. if not now, when?

So what you advocating? The guy hasn't been appointed yet, we ain't playing Rangers or hearts for that matter in the league this season so why the moral crusade or wanting to make a big issue about it? Sorry, sabre rattling to me. It's an issue when we get on our high horse about something that hasn't happened. As long as our club and support conduct themselves correctly and Lennon doesn't get embroiled in anything, let bigots from other clubs come out with their guff. It will prove they have the problem and we stand aloof of it

Alfred E Newman
08-06-2016, 07:22 PM
The situation is there; we all know it, and we know what kind of abuse Lennon and the Hibs support are going to be subjected to. We can either take control of the situation by making it clear from the outset that we are not going to accept the same banal platitudes on this issue that have been said for decades, or we can allow the inevitable events to control us. When the nutters start their antics, we have a position we stick to consistently. Sectarianism has been a running sore in Scottish football for over a century; it's tolerated in a way that racism and homophobia no longer are. We could take a moral stand and make an important contribution against a shameful phenomenon. if not now, when?

Where is the abuse going to come from? For what ever reason, you seem to be trying to create an issue that doesn't exist.

Pete
08-06-2016, 07:24 PM
Ok, I get you. Your right Lennon is more sinned against than sinner. But I think the club shouldn't be making any statement like this, Hibernian have moved on from the old days. And so has Neil Lennon. I'd think I'd be disrespectful to put out a statement like that. Any other manager wouldn't need a statement like that so either does Lennon. It's like bringing up the past

:agree:

We don't need to be making statements about any sort of bigotry and doing so would cause instant disharmony between the club and our new management team.

I usually have a lot of time for the OP's posts but this is nonsense. Any pre emptive statement about bigotry is actually playing into the hands of the Glasgow press and their culture.

Hibernia&Alba
08-06-2016, 07:26 PM
Where is the abuse going to come from? For what ever reason, you seem to be trying to create an issue that doesn't exist.

You don't think the issue exists? Really?

WhileTheChief..
08-06-2016, 07:27 PM
There already is a zero tolerance policy.

Why the hell are so many folk trying to create an issue that just not exist.

For once we're getting positive press and good news stories on the tv so what do we do, we try and cause a huge flipping controversy ourselves.

Just stop it. Neil Lennon will not give rise to sectarianism at our club unless you lot keep banging on about it.

blackpoolhibs
08-06-2016, 07:28 PM
Unless your head is stuck up your arse, we all know Hibs stance on this.

No need to say anything.

Hibernia&Alba
08-06-2016, 07:28 PM
So what you advocating? The guy hasn't been appointed yet, we ain't playing Rangers or hearts for that matter in the league this season so why the moral crusade or wanting to make a big issue about it? Sorry, sabre rattling to me. It's an issue when we get on our high horse about something that hasn't happened. As long as our club and support conduct themselves correctly and Lennon doesn't get embroiled in anything, let bigots from other clubs come out with their guff. It will prove they have the problem and we stand aloof of it

Not good enough. Standing aloof won't stop it.

Alfred E Newman
08-06-2016, 07:29 PM
You don't think the issue exists? Really?

Not at Easter Road, no.

CRAZYHIBBY
08-06-2016, 07:31 PM
This thread is utter nonsense......if you are offended by a bunch of twat's singing a stupid song then wear ear plugs

Hibernia&Alba
08-06-2016, 07:32 PM
Not at Easter Road, no.

So it doesn't matter then, regardless of what the manager/ourselves are going to be subjected to?

Finn2015
08-06-2016, 07:34 PM
It does exist we all know it does but I'm confused as to what your point is here. What are you advocating Hibernian football club do? I personally think the club and the support have a good record. If someone has evidence to the contrary, then please feel free to share but when I've been to any hibs game over the years, I have honestly never heard anything sectarian from the club or the support. Lennon has a past when playing and managing for Celtic, most of it I believe as a victim but I take the point he has hardly helped himself over the years. However, he is at Hibernian now and I fail to see how the club following your request or proposal, or whatever it is, will do anything other than draw him instantly into a sectarian issue. It's simple for me. We concentrate on our own club and supports behaviour, carry on in not engaging in any sort of sectarian nonsense and if fans from other clubs engage in that nonsense, then it should be a matter for their relevant clubs and the authorities to act. Your right, sectarianism is an issue and should not be condoned in any way but if any flak comes ours or lennons way the answer is simple, don't respond to it, make sure our own conduct is impeccable and if needed, expel any supporters who do engage in sectarian behaviour..... Even though I fail to see any recent examples of our clubs support having done so. If our house is in order, people will see where the true problem lies. Other than that, I fail to see what more you think the club should do

WhileTheChief..
08-06-2016, 07:35 PM
When did Dunfermline, Raith, Falkirk etc start singing sectarian songs?? You forgot which league we're in?!!

jdships
08-06-2016, 07:37 PM
Unless your head is stuck up your arse, we all know Hibs stance on this.

No need to say anything.

My thoughts exactly !! :thumbsup:
Why " fan the flames" and bring everything to the boil on the day NL is appointed
I turned my back on religion thirty years ago and have a " zero tolerance " agenda :bye:

heretoday
08-06-2016, 07:39 PM
Zero tolerance of Rangers supporters more like!

marinello59
08-06-2016, 07:40 PM
You don't think the issue exists? Really?

The issue exists. It's not a problem with our club and we all know where we stand regarding it. Why does appointing Neil Lennon change that in any way?
I am not going to get offended at something that hasn't happened yet.

Hibernia&Alba
08-06-2016, 07:41 PM
It does exist we all know it does but I'm confused as to what your point is here. What are you advocating Hibernian football club do? I personally think the club and the support have a good record. If someone has evidence to the contrary, then please feel free to share but when I've been to any hibs game over the years, I have honestly never heard anything sectarian from the club or the support. Lennon has a past when playing and managing for Celtic, most of it I believe as a victim but I take the point he has hardly helped himself over the years. However, he is at Hibernian now and I fail to see how the club following your request or proposal, or whatever it is, will do anything other than draw him instantly into a sectarian issue. It's simple for me. We concentrate on our own club and supports behaviour, carry on in not engaging in any sort of sectarian nonsense and if fans from other clubs engage in that nonsense, then it should be a matter for their relevant clubs and the authorities to act. Your right, sectarianism is an issue and should not be condoned in any way but if any flak comes ours or lennons way the answer is simple, don't respond to it, make sure our own conduct is impeccable and if needed, expel any supporters who do engage in sectarian behaviour..... Even though I fail to see any recent examples of our clubs support having done so. If our house is in order, people will see where the true problem lies. Other than that, I fail to see what more you think the club should do

It's in the OP: grasp the nettle now. Let everybody know from day one we won't accept the type of craziness that surrounded Lennon in his past career in Scotland and it isn't up for negotiation. Any evidence of anybody involved in sectarian behaviour will be passed to the police and SFL/SFA, whether it's a Hibs game or not: total zero tolerance. If we have to ban away supporters or introduce boycotts of any clubs involved, so be it. We can't be a party to the silence and half hearted platitudes that have been part of this issue for so long but will play our full part in making religious bigotry at football as unacceptable as racism.

What would you do?

poolman
08-06-2016, 07:44 PM
Make it clear where we stand?!

We know where we f****** stand!

I'm sure Lennon will be reminded of his responsibilities behind closed doors, but it's not us as a club that needs to address any sectarian issue.

I am sick and tired of Scottish football being dragged into the gutter by this. Nil By Mouth and the rest can f*** off.

We all know where the problems lie. The authorities and those in charge of the bigoted sisters need to deal with it.


Exactamundu, good post

Finn2015
08-06-2016, 08:20 PM
It's in the OP: grasp the nettle now. Let everybody know from day one we won't accept the type of craziness that surrounded Lennon in his past career in Scotland and it isn't up for negotiation. Any evidence of anybody involved in sectarian behaviour will be passed to the police and SFL/SFA, whether it's a Hibs game or not: total zero tolerance. If we have to ban away supporters or introduce boycotts of any clubs involved, so be it. We can't be a party to the silence and half hearted platitudes that have been part of this issue for so long but will play our full part in making religious bigotry at football as unacceptable as racism.

What would you do?


Are you for real? Grasp the nettle lol. Behave yourself. It's already established the club do everything they can and I believe my last post gives a run down of my wishes for how the club should conduct itself. Perhaps you should 'grasp the nettle'. You have really got your knickers in a twist with this one

HUTCHYHIBBY
08-06-2016, 08:21 PM
So what you advocating? The guy hasn't been appointed yet, we ain't playing Rangers or hearts for that matter in the league this season so why the moral crusade or wanting to make a big issue about it? Sorry, sabre rattling to me. It's an issue when we get on our high horse about something that hasn't happened. As long as our club and support conduct themselves correctly and Lennon doesn't get embroiled in anything, let bigots from other clubs come out with their guff. It will prove they have the problem and we stand aloof of it

Well said.

djs69
08-06-2016, 08:32 PM
Nonsense, we shouldn't have to address anything. Do we as a club have a sectarian issue? No, so no need to even mention it. We are not a Glasgow club and we won't have any high profile games against clubs like the **** or their weedgie big cousins

northstandhibby
08-06-2016, 08:38 PM
It's in the OP: grasp the nettle now. Let everybody know from day one we won't accept the type of craziness that surrounded Lennon in his past career in Scotland and it isn't up for negotiation. Any evidence of anybody involved in sectarian behaviour will be passed to the police and SFL/SFA, whether it's a Hibs game or not: total zero tolerance. If we have to ban away supporters or introduce boycotts of any clubs involved, so be it. We can't be a party to the silence and half hearted platitudes that have been part of this issue for so long but will play our full part in making religious bigotry at football as unacceptable as racism.

What would you do?

You're ploughing a lonely furrow to quote a farming metaphor H&A however you are correct to state your strong opinion in this matter which you do by way of intelligent argument. I happen to agree with you that Hibernian who have taken a welcome and bold step of appointing Neil who has been the victim of some horrendous bigotry not just by the huns but bigots of other clubs. Recently Stokesy was targeted (remember the recent Raith Rovers fudds video?). It's an issue that should be simply not tolerated by the authorities who have turned a blind eye to it for too long.



Glory Glory


Glory Glory

Hibernia&Alba
08-06-2016, 08:42 PM
Are you for real? Grasp the nettle lol. Behave yourself. It's already established the club do everything they can and I believe my last post gives a run down of my wishes for how the club should conduct itself. Perhaps you should 'grasp the nettle'. You have really got your knickers in a twist with this one

I'm absolutely for real, and it isn't a matter of knickers being twisted. It's the possibility to make a real difference in what is a shameful legacy to Scottish society and football. The club does what it can in respect of our support certainly, but we shouldn't ignore what is about to come our way. It's inevitable that Lennon and the support is going to be faced with the most disgraceful type of intolerant abuse, and we mustn't back out from this one, IMO. We have a moral obligation to stand against any and all religious bigotry and anti-Irish hatred when it arrives, as it certainly will. The nutters who hounded Lennon at Celtic haven't evolved into enlightened citizens but will return, particularly when he becomes Hibs manager; a club they regard as just another gang of Fenians. Have a read of FollowFollow or the lunatic fringe on Jambo Kickback. The usual banal statements of condemnation won't be enough; we have to participate in total zero tolerance from day one, which will then clear the way for Lennon and the squad to concentrate on promotion. We mustn't give the authorities a moment's peace until they deal with the problem seriously - a century too late.

Hibernia&Alba
08-06-2016, 08:47 PM
Nonsense, we shouldn't have to address anything. Do we as a club have a sectarian issue? No, so no need to even mention it. We are not a Glasgow club and we won't have any high profile games against clubs like the **** or their weedgie big cousins

There are some very unpleasant people who are about to make it our problem, so the question is what our strategy should be. I think we should see it as an opportunity to make a positive difference to an intractable problem.

djs69
08-06-2016, 08:58 PM
There are some very unpleasant people who are about to make it our problem, so the question is what our strategy should be. I think we should see it as an opportunity to make a positive difference to an intractable problem.

I see it as an opportunity to focus on football and if these people who you claim are going to make it our problem surface , then that will be the time to act. I'd rather the club focus on doing our transfer business quietly, let Neil sort our squad, focus on football and the club to continue to raise funds through cup winners merchandise, season tickets and prepare for the post cup final punishment.

jacomo
08-06-2016, 09:09 PM
There are some very unpleasant people who are about to make it our problem, so the question is what our strategy should be. I think we should see it as an opportunity to make a positive difference to an intractable problem.

Your question has been answered many times on here but you don't want to hear it.

This problem isn't ours to solve. Have the SFA done anything about the songs at the Cup Final? No. Have the Rangers? No. Go direct your anger at them please.

Hibs will continue to deal with unacceptable behaviour if it arises. Our club has responded appropriately to that situation and I'm sure we will continue to do so.

Hibernia&Alba
08-06-2016, 09:14 PM
I see it as an opportunity to focus on football and if these people who you claim are going to make it our problem surface , then that will be the time to act. I'd rather the club focus on doing our transfer business quietly, let Neil sort our squad, focus on football and the club to continue to raise funds through cup winners merchandise, season tickets and prepare for the post cup final punishment.

And every time it happens it will be the same questions from the press, the same platitudes of condemnation, the continuation of the same old problem. They will ask Lennon for a response, in the hope he will say something controversial and the whole thing ratchets up a notch and becomes a circus, with events controlling the club. But here's a chance to do better; to put in place a consistent policy that can be referred to each time the loonies escape the asylum. "We made a statement of our position on the day Neil Lennon was appointed, and that hasn't changed. Let us work on that and we'll make a statement when there's something to say. Now back to the football". Rather than mere words of condemnation we're constantly pestering the police, the football authorities, the politicians and the lawyers to treat the issue as seriously as they do other forms of hate crime. As a club that doesn't inflict sectarian hatred upon others, we must make it crystal clear that we won't allow staff and supporters to be victims of it.

Hibernia&Alba
08-06-2016, 09:16 PM
Your question has been answered many times on here but you don't want to hear it.

This problem isn't ours to solve. Have the SFA done anything about the songs at the Cup Final? No. Have the Rangers? No. Go direct your anger at them please.

Hibs will continue to deal with unacceptable behaviour if it arises. Our club has responded appropriately to that situation and I'm sure we will continue to do so.

That's where we part ways. I hear the answer being offered but can't accept it. I think we must make it our problem to solve, if nobody else will, until it finally is solved.

Finn2015
08-06-2016, 09:20 PM
I'm absolutely for real, and it isn't a matter of knickers being twisted. It's the possibility to make a real difference in what is a shameful legacy to Scottish society and football. The club does what it can in respect of our support certainly, but we shouldn't ignore what is about to come our way. It's inevitable that Lennon and the support is going to be faced with the most disgraceful type of intolerant abuse, and we mustn't back out from this one, IMO. We have a moral obligation to stand against any and all religious bigotry and anti-Irish hatred when it arrives, as it certainly will. The nutters who hounded Lennon at Celtic haven't evolved into enlightened citizens but will return, particularly when he becomes Hibs manager; a club they regard as just another gang of Fenians. Have a read of FollowFollow or the lunatic fringe on Jambo Kickback. The usual banal statements of condemnation won't be enough; we have to participate in total zero tolerance from day one, which will then clear the way for Lennon and the squad to concentrate on promotion. We mustn't give the authorities a moment's peace until they deal with the problem seriously - a century too late.

As someone who has Irish parents and is Catholic, I'm all to aware of this issue and actually, I agree with your basic argument that something needs to be done within society as a whole. No arguments from me on that point. My point though is that I believe we as a club don't have a problem with sectarianism. In fact, I think we have a record to be bloody proud of. I'm not saying all our supporters are choir boys, we have had of course problems with hooliganism in the past, but for me, I think our record when it comes to the sectarian issue is very good. My point as I have already said is that I don't think we can or need to do much more on this issue. It's simple. Keep our house in order, the support don't get embroiled in sectarian issues, Lennon behaves appropriately and we continue, as always, to oppose sectarianism. I don't see anything else Hibernian can do. If any of our support engage or chant sectarian stuff, ban them. If opposing supporters come to Easter road and act inapproprately, seek action. However, I don't think we should start panicking and looking at any other measures just because Lennon has become our manager because it's counter productive, it just highlights the issue and will be something bigots can whip themselves up into a frenzy over. Keep our house in order, we will be fine.

Scouse Hibee
08-06-2016, 09:21 PM
WTF is this about again? We appoint a new manager and the club has to.......err.....let me see......err nope WTF is this about again?

Hibernia&Alba
08-06-2016, 09:22 PM
As someone who has Irish parents and is Catholic, I'm all to aware of this issue and actually, I agree with your basic argument that something needs to be done within society as a whole. No arguments from me on that point. My point though is that I believe we as a club don't have a problem with sectarianism. In fact, I think we have a record to be bloody proud of. I'm not saying all our supporters are choir boys, we have had of course problems with hooliganism in the past, but for me, I think our record when it comes to the sectarian issue is very good. My point as I have already said is that I don't think we can or need to do much more on this issue. It's simple. Keep our house in order, the support don't get embroiled in sectarian issues, Lennon behaves appropriately and we continue, as always, to oppose sectarianism. I don't see anything else Hibernian can do. If any of our support engage or chant sectarian stuff, ban them. If opposing supporters come to Easter road and act inapproprately, seek action. However, I don't think we should start panicking and looking at any other measures just because Lennon has become our manager because it's counter productive, it just highlights the issue and will be something bigots can whip themselves up into a frenzy over. Keep our house in order, we will be fine.

So that's what we tell the new manager when the bile begins again: "Our house is in order; not our problem to solve"? Leave him to his fate.

djs69
08-06-2016, 09:24 PM
And every time it happens it will be the same questions from the press, the same platitudes of condemnation, the continuation of the same old problem. They will ask Lennon for a response, in the hope he will say something controversial and the whole thing ratchets up a notch and becomes a circus, with events controlling the club. But here's a chance to do better; to put in place a consistent policy that can be referred to each time the loonies escape the asylum. "We made a statement of our position on the day Neil Lennon was appointed, and that hasn't changed. Let us work on that and we'll make a statement when there's something to say. Now back to the football". Rather than mere words of condemnation we're constantly pestering the police, the football authorities, the politicians and the lawyers to treat the issue as seriously as they do other forms of hate crime. As a club that doesn't inflict sectarian hatred upon others, we must make it crystal clear that we won't allow staff and supporters to be victims of it.

You refer to when it happens and these people who are about to make
It our problem....can you elaborate or are you stirring up sectarian related possible issues because of the west coast history when he managed Celtic?

Scouse Hibee
08-06-2016, 09:25 PM
So that's what we tell the new manager when the bile begins again: "Our house is in order; not our problem to solve"? Leave him to his fate.

What bile? Why are you stirring this **** up

Hibernia&Alba
08-06-2016, 09:26 PM
You refer to when it happens and these people who are about to make
It our problem....can you elaborate or are you stirring up sectarian related possible issues because of the west coast history when he managed Celtic?

Don't be silly. Either make a contribution or say nothing. I'm not dignifying that kind of stuff with a serious answer.

Finn2015
08-06-2016, 09:27 PM
So that's what we tell the new manager when the bile begins again: "Our house is in order; not our problem to solve"? Leave him to his fate.

Starting to think your on the wind up and I ain't going to keep repeating myself. It's again very simple, back him to the hilt, the same way Celtic did. I could draw you a picture of you like. Look, you have the bit between your teeth, I've explained my feelings on this matter. Don't like it? Tough. Just try and enjoy his appointment, have a wee bit of faith that the club and support will back him and take any necessary action should anything happen.

djs69
08-06-2016, 09:27 PM
What?? Your the one making these claims.

Hibernia&Alba
08-06-2016, 09:29 PM
What bile? Why are you stirring this **** up

SH, please don't be obtuse; I credit you with more intelligence than that. You've been in Scotland long enough to know the score. Bile such as letter bombs, death threats, assaults, that happened not too long ago. Those people aren't now Guardian readers. When the religious/racist hatred starts from those types again - and it will, just read the internet forums - we must have the moral strength to demand that the tolerance our support offers others is returned.

jacomo
08-06-2016, 09:30 PM
That's where we part ways. I hear the answer being offered but can't accept it. I think we must make it our problem to solve, if nobody else will, until it finally is solved.

Noble words. But we can't solve it.

heretoday
08-06-2016, 09:32 PM
Lenny's not to blame for all the flak that came his way. It was those maniacs in the west.

It might be difficult with him as manager but we'll back him to the hilt.

It won't be dull!

marinello59
08-06-2016, 09:34 PM
So that's what we tell the new manager when the bile begins again: "Our house is in order; not our problem to solve"? Leave him to his fate.

We all know our clubs stance on the sectarian issue.
Nothing has happened, if it does then the club will take the appropriate action. You almost seem to be willing a situation to arise.

Hibernia&Alba
08-06-2016, 09:37 PM
We all know our clubs stance on the sectarian issue.
Nothing has happened, if it does then the club will take the appropriate action. You almost seem to be willing a situation to arise.

The chanting goes on every game; it happened at the cup final, so there's no cause to will anything. Once again we said nothing.

Scouse Hibee
08-06-2016, 09:38 PM
SH, please don't be obtuse; I credit you with more intelligence than that. You've been in Scotland long enough to know the score. Bile such as letter bombs, death threats, assaults, that happened not too long ago. Those people aren't now Guardian readers. When the religious/racist hatred starts from those types again - and it will, just read the internet forums - we must have the moral strength to demand that the tolerance our support offers others is returned.

I'm not being obtuse, I'm wondering why events that occured when Lennon was on one side of the great old firm divide are so high on your worry list. I believe you are scaremongering and asking us to deal with an issue that hasn't even raised it's head yet. Furthermore I don't actually believe it will.

Hibernia&Alba
08-06-2016, 09:40 PM
I'm not being obtuse, I'm wondering why events that occured when Lennon was on one side of the great old firm divide are so high on your worry list. I believe you are scaremongering and asking us to deal with an issue that hasn't even raised it's head yet. Furthermore I don't actually believe it will.

It happens every Saturday and has done for over a hundred years. It's called sectarian chanting, and is still tolerated in Scotland in a way racist chanting isn't.

21.05.2016
08-06-2016, 09:45 PM
Hibernian FC is a club that has long matured and moved on from the sectarian bigotry that goes on in the West.

Scouse Hibee
08-06-2016, 09:45 PM
It happens every Saturday and has done for over a hundred years. It's called sectarian chanting, and is still tolerated in Scotland in a way racist chanting isn't.

Mate I'm out, you have raised an issue and linked it to our new manager as some sort of desperate issue we now need to contend with,yet then quote a hundred years of sectarian chanting as some sort of reasoning for your outburst,I just don't get it or you. Best of luck with what you are trying to achieve what ever it is!

JimBHibees
08-06-2016, 09:49 PM
Mate I'm out, you have raised an issue and linked it to our new manager as some sort of desperate issue we now need to contend with,yet then quote a hundred years of sectarian chanting as some sort of reasoning for your outburst,I just don't get it or you. Best of luck with what you are trying to achieve what ever it is!

Agree totally. We have nothing to apologise for be afraid of with this appointment. No such statement should be made by our club about sectarianism as it isn't an issue. There are laws for anyone who does do it for others to deal with. We are an inclusive vpclub and must stay that way.

Benny Brazil
08-06-2016, 09:53 PM
It happens every Saturday and has done for over a hundred years. It's called sectarian chanting, and is still tolerated in Scotland in a way racist chanting isn't.

But not at Easter Road - so why should we become embroiled in an issue that doesnt involve us just because of who our manager is.

Hibernia&Alba
08-06-2016, 09:54 PM
Mate I'm out, you have raised an issue and linked it to our new manager as some sort of desperate issue we now need to contend with,yet then quote a hundred years of sectarian chanting as some sort of reasoning for your outburst,I just don't get it or you. Best of luck with what you are trying to achieve what ever it is!

It's an issue that has been shamefully ignored for far too long, with the aid of a timid media and political class. What I'm trying to achieve is more civilised behaviour; that nobody should have to endure such hatred in 2016. The new Hibs manager is arguably the most extreme example of what people can be forced to endure, when he was last in Scotland, and I think we have a chance to demonstrate by our actions that we can contribute more in trying to make progress in our society. Clearly you don't get it, and I'm sorry about that, but I don't think it's a particularly esoteric idea.

Hibernia&Alba
08-06-2016, 09:56 PM
But not at Easter Road - so why should we become embroiled in an issue that doesnt involve us just because of who our manager is.

Of course it involves us. It involves everybody who values tolerance. Does racism and homophobia not involve us either? If we appointed a black manager who had endured racial hatred, would it be acceptable to say it isn't our problem, when he received the same treatment?

Benny Brazil
08-06-2016, 09:57 PM
It's an issue that has been shamefully ignored for far too long, with the aid of a timid media and political class. What I'm trying to achieve is more civilised behaviour; that nobody should have to endure such hatred in 2016. The new Hibs manager is arguably the most extreme example of what people can be forced to endure, when he was last in Scotland, and I think we have a chance to demonstrate by our actions that we can contribute more in trying to make progress in our society. Clearly you don't get it, and I'm sorry about that, but I don't think it's a particularly esoteric idea.

Until we have a Government, Police Force and Governing Body with the backbone to tackle the problem head on and deal with it - it will always be an issue. Nothing Hibs say will change that.

tamig
08-06-2016, 09:59 PM
The situation is there; we all know it, and we know what kind of abuse Lennon and the Hibs support are going to be subjected to. We can either take control of the situation by making it clear from the outset that we are not going to accept the same banal platitudes on this issue that have been said for decades, or we can allow the inevitable events to control us. When the nutters start their antics, we have a position we stick to consistently. Sectarianism has been a running sore in Scottish football for over a century; it's tolerated in a way that racism and homophobia no longer are. We could take a moral stand and make an important contribution against a shameful phenomenon. if not now, when?

What a strange outlook. If the club were to come out with the stuff that you are proposing, what does that say about us? We are the same club with the same values today as we were yesterday. Absolutely no need for the club to come out with any statements. For me there is no issue to be addressed here. You seem to be indicating that Neil Lennon is a magnet for sectarianism of the highest order. He's out of the OF bubble now and I'm just looking forward to seeing what he does with our talented squad. The way he was treated when he worked in Glasgow will not follow him here imo. Why make such a big deal of it? I don't get it 😕

WhileTheChief..
08-06-2016, 09:59 PM
Is there a way to bump a thread off the front page?!

marinello59
08-06-2016, 10:01 PM
It's an issue that has been shamefully ignored for far too long, with the aid of a timid media and political class. What I'm trying to achieve is more civilised behaviour; that nobody should have to endure such hatred in 2016. The new Hibs manager is arguably the most extreme example of what people can be forced to endure, when he was last in Scotland, and I think we have a chance to demonstrate by our actions that we can contribute more in trying to make progress in our society. Clearly you don't get it, and I'm sorry about that, but I don't think it's a particularly esoteric idea.


Your posts are starting to read like an episode of a Brass Eye special.

Diclonius
08-06-2016, 10:02 PM
Lennon himself was caught using sectarian language during an Old Firm game, which was inexcusable despite the provocation. Getting dragged into the sectarian gutter can only add to the problem. I think it would be helpful for the club to make it clear where we stand from day one and then let's get on with the football.

Can you provide a link to this? I can't find any evidence it actually happened.

NAE NOOKIE
08-06-2016, 10:03 PM
As things stand there is no problem to address ..... Hibs have no sectarian problem and neither do the clubs we will be playing in the league next season .. not once in any game involving the clubs we will face in the league have I heard anything like bigoted or sectarian chants or songs from their fans.

Neil Lennon will be the subject of abuse at some games of that I have no doubt, but that is because he is generally viewed as a target by Scottish football's boo boys ... there will not have to be a sectarian angle for that to happen.

Everybody knows Hibs stance on the subject of abuse be it racist, sectarian, homophobic or whatever ..... it is not and will not be tolerated, I don't think there is any need to reiterate that stance at this point, all it will do is create a situation where none exists.

tamig
08-06-2016, 10:06 PM
We all know our clubs stance on the sectarian issue.
Nothing has happened, if it does then the club will take the appropriate action. You almost seem to be willing a situation to arise.

He's told us numerous times it will arise - and us supporters will also be subjected to "it". What "it" is, I'd love to know. Crazy stuff...

Hibernia&Alba
08-06-2016, 10:06 PM
What a strange outlook. If the club were to come out with the stuff that you are proposing, what does that say about us? We are the same club with the same values today as we were yesterday. Absolutely no need for the club to come out with any statements. For me there is no issue to be addressed here. You seem to be indicating that Neil Lennon is a magnet for sectarianism of the highest order. He's out of the OF bubble now and I'm just looking forward to seeing what he does with our talented squad. The way he was treated when he worked in Glasgow will not follow him here imo. Why make such a big deal of it? I don't get it 

It says we won't look the other way, even if others find it easier. That we can't separate ourselves from society and say it isn't our problem but will make clear our expectations from day one; that the nonsense of the past won't be tolerated from anyone.

Hibernia&Alba
08-06-2016, 10:07 PM
You're posts are starting to read like an episode of a Brass Eye special.

No offence but that's a totally meaningless statement, mate.

Hibernia&Alba
08-06-2016, 10:09 PM
He's told us numerous times it will arise - and us supporters will also be subjected to "it". What "it" is, I'd love to know. Crazy stuff...

"It" is sectarian behaviour. You think that's crazy and fanciful in Scotland? Were you at the cup final, for example?

marinello59
08-06-2016, 10:10 PM
No offence but that's a totally meaningless statement, mate.

The punctuation was poor thanks to auto-correct. :greengrin

Eyrie
08-06-2016, 10:14 PM
Until we have a Government, Police Force and Governing Body with the backbone to tackle the problem head on and deal with it - it will always be an issue. Nothing Hibs say will change that.

Perfectly stated.

We're a football club who should focus on promotion, not on trying to solve deeply ingrained societal problems.

tamig
08-06-2016, 10:14 PM
It says we won't look the other way, even if others find it easier. That we can't separate ourselves from society and say it isn't our problem but will make clear our expectations from day one; that the nonsense of the past won't be tolerated from anyone.

Lol. Look the other way from what? Nothing has happened. And I doubt that anything will. By making statements about zero tolerance and such like we are almost admitting that an issue exists and probably inviting the sectarian erses to have a go. What benefit is to be had by the club doing what you are advocating? There is no issue to address!

tamig
08-06-2016, 10:17 PM
"It" is sectarian behaviour. You think that's crazy and fanciful in Scotland? Were you at the cup final, for example?

Lol. We won't be playing the hun this season. Are all the clubs in our league suddenly turning sectarian and showering us with bigotted nonsense just because we appointed a particular guy as our new manager today? Outlandish frankly. In my opinion of course.

cabbageandribs1875
08-06-2016, 10:17 PM
Is there a way to bump a thread off the front page?!



this

Hibernia&Alba
08-06-2016, 10:18 PM
Lol. Look the other way from what? Nothing has happened. And I doubt that anything will. By making statements about zero tolerance and such like we are almost admitting that an issue exists and probably inviting the sectarian erses to have a go. What benefit is to be had by the club doing what you are advocating? There is no issue to address!


Again we part ways. Denying there is a problem in this country is the behaviour of the Old Firm and lets the idiots off the hook. I think the evidence suggests there is still a big sectarian problem.

Eyrie
08-06-2016, 10:21 PM
Again we part ways. Denying there is a problem in this country is the behaviour of the Old Firm and lets the idiots off the hook. I think the evidence suggests there is still a big sectarian problem.

No-one is denying that there is a sectarian problem in certain parts of Scottish society. What we are questioning is why you want Hibs to be the catalyst for change rather than the politicians, courts, police and football authorities.

tamig
08-06-2016, 10:23 PM
Again we part ways. Denying there is a problem in this country is the behaviour of the Old Firm and lets the idiots off the hook. I think the evidence suggests there is still a big sectarian problem.

There is a sectarian issue in Scotland - of course. But why do you suggest Hibs should be the champions of anti-sectarianism just because we appointed Neil Lennon today? That's the bit I don't get. He isn't back at Parkhead. And I doubt he will be a magnet for sectarian abuse from opposition fans next season. And I don't think us fans will be abused either.

Hibernia&Alba
08-06-2016, 10:25 PM
Lol. We won't be playing the hun this season. Are all the clubs in our league suddenly turning sectarian and showering us with bigotted nonsense just because we appointed a particular guy as our new manager today? Outlandish frankly. In my opinion of course.

The issue of sectarian behaviour still exists in Scottish football/society whether we play Rangers or not. What difference does that make? Out of sight out of mind won't solve the problem. This issue should have been tackled generations ago, but, sadly, it's still with us. We now have a very high profile victim of this shameful problem as manager, which I think could actually be turned into a positive if we give a proper kick up the erse to the indolent powers that be.

tamig
08-06-2016, 10:28 PM
The issue of sectarian behaviour still exists in Scottish football/society whether we play Rangers or not. What difference does that make? Out of sight out of mind won't solve the problem. This issue should have been tackled generations ago, but, sadly, it's still with us. We now have a very high profile victim of this shameful problem as manager, which I think could actually be turned into a positive if we give a proper kick up the erse to the indolent powers that be.

But why should we do the erse kicking just because our new manager has been a victim in the past? There is no evidence to suggest he will be targetted again as the manager of our club.

Hibernia&Alba
08-06-2016, 10:29 PM
No-one is denying that there is a sectarian problem in certain parts of Scottish society. What we are questioning is why you want Hibs to be the catalyst for change rather than the politicians, courts, police and football authorities.

There are certainly people denying there is a problem - it's there in black and white. But why always say it's somebody else's problem? Having someone who has been such a high profile victim could actually be the basis for the club to make a big difference where others have refused to try. A high profile football club has the clout to be heard.

Hibernia&Alba
08-06-2016, 10:29 PM
But why should we do the erse kicking just because our new manager has been a victim in the past? There is no evidence to suggest he will be targetted again as the manager of our club.

You don't get it, fair enough.

Big L
08-06-2016, 10:31 PM
Where is the abuse going to come from? For what ever reason, you seem to be trying to create an issue that doesn't exist.

As far as away games are concerned the only place he won't get abuse is Parkhead. We have already witnessed the abuse and the assault at Tynecastle.

FranckSuzy
08-06-2016, 10:31 PM
IF our Manager or Club are subjected to sectarian abuse then I feel it is only right that we allow Hibs to step up and condone it. There appears no merit, to me, in trying to second guess the actions of neanderthals whilst possibly provoking further sickening attacks by announcing an official 'policy'.

Big L
08-06-2016, 10:34 PM
No-one is denying that there is a sectarian problem in certain parts of Scottish society. What we are questioning is why you want Hibs to be the catalyst for change rather than the politicians, courts, police and football authorities.

All four of the authorities you mention have been ineffective and will continue in that vein!

Hibernia&Alba
08-06-2016, 10:38 PM
We can either just be customers as football fans or we can have a go at making it more than that through collective action upon relevant issues. Saying it somebody else's problem a, isn't true and b, hasn't worked.

tamig
08-06-2016, 10:38 PM
You don't get it, fair enough.

I don't get what you're suggesting. Absolutely not. I can only see it as a negative action.

Rasta_Hibs
08-06-2016, 10:39 PM
For what its worth I think that Hibs should not make any such statement.

Only when Neil Lennon has been subject of sectarian abuse whilst manager of Hibs at games or public events should Hibs make a statement condemning the sectarian abuse. For me there is no need at all to mention sectarian stuff at all unless forced too, why give the bigots the airplay? The time to highlight it is when our manager has been wronged.

As people have said its not Hibs purpose to sort out the sectarian problem that mostly exists in the west of Scotland. I'm sure Neil would rather no have his welcome to Hibs tainted by a big Hibs statement on sectarianism.

HoboHarry
08-06-2016, 10:48 PM
We can either just be customers as football fans or we can have a go at making it more than that through collective action upon relevant issues. Saying it somebody else's problem a, isn't true and b, hasn't worked.
You could of course join up at the likes of Follow Follow and preach your message there. I'm fairly sure you would get a debate lively enough to fill your entire day......

Hibernia&Alba
08-06-2016, 10:50 PM
All four of the authorities you mention have been ineffective and will continue in that vein!

I fully agree with that. The issue is now literally on our doorstep: a club with an Irish background that has experienced prejudice in the past and now has a new manager who is probably the most high profile victim of sectarianism in Scotland in recent years; yet apparently the issue isn't our problem. I happen to think it's everybody's problem; it has been for a century or more but still continues, due to lack of will. We could actually make a really positive contribution here, by leading the way in Scottish football in the tackling of this social menace. We could bombard and shame the authorities into finally taking the issue full on, taking the attention away from Lennon, who can concentrate on the team. We just need to be organised and serious about it. It isn't political, it's social: a demand for the right of football fans to enjoy the sport free from religious, racial, xenophobic, homophobic, gender hatred. It isn't tolerated in the workplace or on the street, and the continual empty words of condemnation without any meaningful consequences doesn't work.

Hibernia&Alba
08-06-2016, 10:52 PM
You could of course join up at the likes of Follow Follow and preach your message there. I'm fairly sure you would get a debate lively enough to fill your entire day......

They'd ban me immediately I'm sure, probably with plenty of intolerant epithets on my way out :greengrin

Benny Brazil
08-06-2016, 11:00 PM
I fully agree with that. The issue is now literally on our doorstep: a club with an Irish background that has experienced prejudice in the past and now has a new manager who is probably the most high profile victim of sectarianism in Scotland in recent years; yet apparently the issue isn't our problem. I happen to think it's everybody's problem; it has been for a century or more but still continues, due to lack of will. We could actually make a really positive contribution here, by leading the way in Scottish football in the tackling of this social menace. We could bombard and shame the authorities into finally taking the issue full on, taking the attention away from Lennon, who can concentrate on the team. We just need to be organised and serious about it. It isn't political, it's social: a demand for the right of football fans to enjoy the sport free from religious, racial, xenophobic, homophobic, gender hatred. It isn't tolerated in the workplace or on the street, and the continual empty words of condemnation without any meaningful consequences doesn't work.

The issue isnt new just because Lennon has been appointed our Manager though. Thats the bit I dont get about your OP. Numerous managers of Hibernian FC have been abused, Mowbray, JC, Hughes, Fenlon, Stubbs - this isnt a new problem. It was wrong then and it is still wrong. But we are a football club. Regardless of what we say it wouldnt make a blind bit of difference to the bigots in the west. In fact it would probably add fuel to the fire.
The problem is far bigger than Hibernian FC and as I previously said until the Scottish Government, the Police and the SFA / SPL develop a set of balls and a genuine desire to tackle the issue - it will always be a problem.

Kato
08-06-2016, 11:05 PM
I am not going to get offended at something that hasn't happened yet.

Oh, come on. Do it. Everybodys doing it these days.

Vault Boy
08-06-2016, 11:05 PM
Hibernian, its fans and its manager will never participate in such petulant bigotry. As much as I dislike the Weegie clubs, particularly Rangers, I really hope that they're able to stamp it out sooner rather than later. Sectarianism is not welcome in Ireland, Scotland or football in general.

Hibernia&Alba
08-06-2016, 11:24 PM
The issue isnt new just because Lennon has been appointed our Manager though. Thats the bit I dont get about your OP. Numerous managers of Hibernian FC have been abused, Mowbray, JC, Hughes, Fenlon, Stubbs - this isnt a new problem. It was wrong then and it is still wrong. But we are a football club. Regardless of what we say it wouldnt make a blind bit of difference to the bigots in the west. In fact it would probably add fuel to the fire.
The problem is far bigger than Hibernian FC and as I previously said until the Scottish Government, the Police and the SFA / SPL develop a set of balls and a genuine desire to tackle the issue - it will always be a problem.


I get what you're saying, but not being able to solve everything doesn't mean do nothing - make a contribution, even if it doesn't prove fundamental. There's no need to worry about adding fuel to a fire, as that fire has been burning for a long, long time. In fact it's just the opposite: we could have the moral courage to stand for tolerance for all amidst the hysteria that some will certainly aim Lennon's way. We shouldn't argue about trivia with idiots but should make a persistent demand for action on this very important issue, in combination with club actions such as bans/boycotts. Pressure for positive change on various fronts.

The sectarian abuse is going to happen - let's hope it's only chanting this time - but I don't think putting out a statement each time we witness disgraceful behaviour will work; it hasn't before. I know what you're saying about previous Hibs managers and of course it was wrong, but it wasn't solved, and there's a high probability it could get much worse soon. There comes a point when a wrong can't be allowed to go unchallenged any longer.

monktonharp
09-06-2016, 01:19 AM
I don't like orange, but i'm not sparticus

monktonharp
09-06-2016, 01:45 AM
I fully agree with that. The issue is now literally on our doorstep: a club with an Irish background that has experienced prejudice in the past and now has a new manager who is probably the most high profile victim of sectarianism in Scotland in recent years; yet apparently the issue isn't our problem. I happen to think it's everybody's problem; it has been for a century or more but still continues, due to lack of will. We could actually make a really positive contribution here, by leading the way in Scottish football in the tackling of this social menace. We could bombard and shame the authorities into finally taking the issue full on, taking the attention away from Lennon, who can concentrate on the team. We just need to be organised and serious about it. It isn't political, it's social: a demand for the right of football fans to enjoy the sport free from religious, racial, xenophobic, homophobic, gender hatred. It isn't tolerated in the workplace or on the street, and the continual empty words of condemnation without any meaningful consequences doesn't work. you would be as well as saying you don't want Lennon as our manager. we wont be playing Rangers anytime soon, unless in the cup and I would love to get them if only to expose them even more than they have been with there actions and songs of late. the best way to highlight it will be on television. then we shall see what the police and possibly the government will actually do, this time

Brizo
09-06-2016, 06:06 AM
While I understand where the OP is coming from this would be a PR disaster. The public announcement of any zero tolerance policy by Hibs would be twisted and spun by all sectors of our impartial Scottish media to make it out that the warning applied to our own fans as much as fans of other clubs.

We already have a zero tolerance policy at ER. Its self policed and that's why songs sung in the 60s, 70s and 80s are no longer heard at ER.

Instead of the OPs suggestion what should happen is that next time a Hibs manager is subjected to sectarian abuse the poison chalice of responding to it shouldn't be passed to a "fan" director. It should be responded to by either Leanne Dempster or Rod Petrie raising it in the media and with our governing bodies.

JimBHibees
09-06-2016, 06:15 AM
As things stand there is no problem to address ..... Hibs have no sectarian problem and neither do the clubs we will be playing in the league next season .. not once in any game involving the clubs we will face in the league have I heard anything like bigoted or sectarian chants or songs from their fans.

Neil Lennon will be the subject of abuse at some games of that I have no doubt, but that is because he is generally viewed as a target by Scottish football's boo boys ... there will not have to be a sectarian angle for that to happen.

Everybody knows Hibs stance on the subject of abuse be it racist, sectarian, homophobic or whatever ..... it is not and will not be tolerated, I don't think there is any need to reiterate that stance at this point, all it will do is create a situation where none exists.

Couldn't agree more. The OP needs to to slow down his steed and get off his high horse with his one man campaign. If anything if the club did do as he says it would worsen the situation not improve it unless of course that is what he wants to happen.

marinello59
09-06-2016, 06:21 AM
I fully agree with that. The issue is now literally on our doorstep: a club with an Irish background that has experienced prejudice in the past and now has a new manager who is probably the most high profile victim of sectarianism in Scotland in recent years; yet apparently the issue isn't our problem. I happen to think it's everybody's problem; it has been for a century or more but still continues, due to lack of will. We could actually make a really positive contribution here, by leading the way in Scottish football in the tackling of this social menace. We could bombard and shame the authorities into finally taking the issue full on, taking the attention away from Lennon, who can concentrate on the team. We just need to be organised and serious about it. It isn't political, it's social: a demand for the right of football fans to enjoy the sport free from religious, racial, xenophobic, homophobic, gender hatred. It isn't tolerated in the workplace or on the street, and the continual empty words of condemnation without any meaningful consequences doesn't work.

You really haven't thought this through at all have you?
You want to use Lennon's appointment as an excuse for the club to go on a moral crusade and you think that will remove him from the firing line. It would have the opposite effect.
You still haven't told us which clubs in the league we are in will be subjecting us to a torrent of sectarian bile.

lyonhibs
09-06-2016, 06:30 AM
This is an extraordinary thread, or rather OP.

Make a unprompted public statement reiterating an already known fact that would be twisted by the press.

Perhaps Lennon's appointment will cause our support go into a 30 year timewarp, but I seriously doubt it.

There's absolutely no need for Hibs to go about shouting from the rooftops that we abhor bigotry. There's only 2 clubs in Scotland that should feel compelled to do that, but we all know they won't.

Oh, and neither of them are in our league which only intensifies the head scratching caused by the OP

lapsedhibee
09-06-2016, 06:59 AM
If we want to take a stance on sectarian behaviour at this time we should do it on the basis of our previous manager being abused, for which there is plenty of recent evidence, rather than on the possibility that our current manager might be, depending on who we draw in the cups. Leave Neilly out of it.

BoomtownHibees
09-06-2016, 07:10 AM
More importantly, I'm a bit disappointed that the club haven't released a statement advising zero tolerance to anti ginger abuse

Keith_M
09-06-2016, 07:54 AM
Sorry, but Hibs shouldn't pre-empt possible sectarian comments just because we've signed Neil Lennon.


What I do think Hibs should do is to put out a public statement expressing their disappointment in opposition fans after they have abused our manager, a player or supporters... and also the club those people support for not condemning their own fans behaviour. They should really have done so after playing The Rangers each and every time this season.


Perhaps an expression of disappointment at the authorities for their deafening silence would also be in order.


This could, and should, be done every time in a dignified and professional manner befitting of Hibs

HIBERNIAN-0762
09-06-2016, 07:56 AM
There's only 2 clubs in Scotland that should feel compelled to do that, but we all know they won't.



:top marks

jacomo
09-06-2016, 09:09 AM
Sorry, but Hibs shouldn't pre-empt possible sectarian comments just because we've signed Neil Lennon.


What I do think Hibs should do is to put out a public statement expressing their disappointment in opposition fans after they have abused our manager, a player or supporters... and also the club those people support for not condemning their own fans behaviour. They should really have done so after playing The Rangers each and every time this season.


Perhaps an expression of disappointment at the authorities for their deafening silence would also be in order.

This could, and should, be done every time in a dignified and professional manner befitting of Hibs


The investigation into fan behaviour at the Cup Final is due in a month or so.

We shall see whether or not certain issues are swept under the carpet.

That would seem an appropriate time to make a statement, if required.

ronaldo7
09-06-2016, 09:40 AM
Maybe we should just ask Petrie to ask the suits in the corridors of power for a campaign to run alongside the show racism the red card.

Sectarianism stinks is a catchy wee ditty.

SouthsideHarp_Bhoy
09-06-2016, 10:19 AM
We could just the ban the hun supporters from ER next time. Instead cover the away end with a bit tarpaulin stating there are no the rangers fans here because we wont allow sectarianism in our stadium.

Shame the authorities, and make a moral stand. If i were a rich man, id even give hibs back the loat revenue (crowd source?)

Diclonius
09-06-2016, 10:29 AM
So, did Lennon actually say anything sectarian? :dunno:

WhileTheChief..
09-06-2016, 11:32 AM
Maybe we should just stop all this chat before it grows arms and legs.

It'll just lead us down a path that most of us aren't interested in at all.

BSEJVT
09-06-2016, 11:51 AM
The situation is there; we all know it, and we know what kind of abuse Lennon and the Hibs support are going to be subjected to. We can either take control of the situation by making it clear from the outset that we are not going to accept the same banal platitudes on this issue that have been said for decades, or we can allow the inevitable events to control us. When the nutters start their antics, we have a position we stick to consistently. Sectarianism has been a running sore in Scottish football for over a century; it's tolerated in a way that racism and homophobia no longer are. We could take a moral stand and make an important contribution against a shameful phenomenon. if not now, when?

Whilst there is no doubt a sectarian issue with a significant number of Rangers & Celtic fans, which manifests itself when they play each other and other teams, its not an issue I have experienced from any other club.

There's no question that every other club. and Hibs are as guilty as anyone, has their fair share of ******** supporters, I don't accept that anything racial, homophobic or sectarian that comes from these ********s is representative of an endemic problem within the rest of their support, its ********s being ********s and spouting the first crap that comes out their mouths.

While the sentiment behind the OP is laudable, it is IMO unnecessary for the vast majority of clubs for the reasons stated.

I think we are lighting a beacon, in order to be able to take the moral high ground should anything occur at a time when for our own ends we ought to be keeping a lower profile until the post match Cup Final issues are resolved and punishments meted out.

Either the Scottish Football authorities or UEFA will need to act to stamp out Sectarian chanting in the Scottish game.

I have no hope that the Scottish Legal establishment will or will have the moral fibre to stamp out sectarianism in wider Scottish Life anytime soon.

Dashing Bob S
09-06-2016, 12:36 PM
I think the OP is operating from pure motives and I get where he is coming from, but no sense in:

1. Burrowing trouble. - Respond to sectarian issues when they arise.
2. Making our appointment of NL as the focus of this statement. -This is unfair to Lennon as it's associating the problem with him.

The Green Goblin
09-06-2016, 02:40 PM
Unless your head is stuck up your arse, we all know Hibs stance on this.

No need to say anything.

Agree 100%. No need to comment here. If something kicks off, the club pass it on to the police. The End.

The Green Goblin
09-06-2016, 02:47 PM
You really haven't thought this through at all have you?
You want to use Lennon's appointment as an excuse for the club to go on a moral crusade and you think that will remove him from the firing line. It would have the opposite effect.

Exactly. Nicely put. It's like ruining a house by pouring thousands of gallons of water into it because it caught fire at some point years ago and might catch fire again. :greengrin

NAE NOOKIE
09-06-2016, 06:29 PM
Sorry, but Hibs shouldn't pre-empt possible sectarian comments just because we've signed Neil Lennon.


What I do think Hibs should do is to put out a public statement expressing their disappointment in opposition fans after they have abused our manager, a player or supporters... and also the club those people support for not condemning their own fans behaviour. They should really have done so after playing The Rangers each and every time this season.


Perhaps an expression of disappointment at the authorities for their deafening silence would also be in order.


This could, and should, be done every time in a dignified and professional manner befitting of Hibs

You absolutely have a point here and a precedent has already been set for it by the very club most likely to be the subject of such a statement.

One of the things I found unusual about the hysterical statement issued by The Rangers FC minutes after the cup final was that it did not use the phrase 'opposition supporters' but used the term 'Hibs supporters' .... I may be wrong, but is it not unusual for a club to use the name of the club they have been playing in such circumstances?

There are a number of banned songs in Sevco's repertoire, which I would imagine includes any song with the phrase 'Fenian bstrd' in it. The next time we play them and any of these songs are used Hibs should immediately issue a statement condemning sectarian abuse of our Manager, players or supporters.

Such as:

""Hibernian FC are disappointed that in spite of strenuous efforts by the Scottish Govenmment, Police Scotland and the Scottish football authorities over the last number of years The Rangers FC have been unable to prevent their supporters from indulging in open and flagrant sectarian abuse of Hibernian staff and players. It is unacceptable that in the 21st century employees of our club are unable to come to their place of work without being subjected to bigoted and sectarian abuse. Hibernian football club insists that The Rangers FC issues a public statement condemning the actions of what was far from a minority of their supporters on XYZ date""

""On that note .... this club will not be prepared to accept any statement from The Rangers FC condemning "a minority" of their supporters. As is the norm on these occasions the vast majority of The Rangers fans in the stadium / away end were involved in these incidents and it is time for that club to face up to and address in a meaningful way the considerable problem they have ""

In fact that is the statement we should have issued the day after the cup final ..... If the currant buns are determined to live by the sword there is no reason they cant die by it.