Time to join the English league?

[macd123]

This is talked about every year in terms of the old firm going. But if they go, we might as well all go. The Rotherham thing really puts it in perspective and look at clubs like Bournemouth and Wigan too. We just can't compete. Is there any point in keeping on isolating ourselves?

I know the question is would they let us in? But if they can make exceptions for Swansea and Cardiff...

I'm not a lawyer but I also wonder if they could stop us (under EU law), if we were prepared to work our way up from the bottom.

One thing is for sure if it's not on our agenda and we leave it up to the Old Firm, we will be nothing but an afterthought in the whole debate.

[Greencore]

Unless any real investment is made into Hibernian and we can afford to double what these clubs are offering our staff and players then there isn't much we can do.... Same for every club in Scotland bar sevco and celtc.

[MWHIBBIES]

I quite like going to away games so...no?

[hibbyboy1]

This is talked about every year in terms of the old firm going. But if they go, we might as well all go. The Rotherham thing really puts it in perspective and look at clubs like Bournemouth and Wigan too. We just can't compete. Is there any point in keeping on isolating ourselves?

I know the question is would they let us in? But if they can make exceptions for Swansea and Cardiff...

I'm not a lawyer but I also wonder if they could stop us (under EU law), if we were prepared to work our way up from the bottom.

One thing is for sure if it's not on our agenda and we leave it up to the Old Firm, we will be nothing but an afterthought in the whole debate.

Also think this is the way to go. May take a few years but could see us become a top team

[Billy McKirdy]

I think it's inevitable, the big two are desperate to leave the Scottish leagues and if they go I believe most bigger teams in Scotland will want to match that ambition and go too, us included.
The old firm have continually agitated to leave our leagues and consequently any sponsorship has been difficult to clinch, factor in the years of inequitable distribution to favour the big two and you get what we have now.
If they go the money on offer will evaporate.

[SanFranHibs]

Also think this is the way to go. May take a few years but could see us become a top team

A definite NO!!! We should sort our own league out.

Assuming you are not meaning the Manchester teams, Chelsea, the Big London teams, Liverpool, what do you mean by a top team anyhow? A Newcastle, Villa, Birmingham, Leeds, Wolverhampton, Forest, Derby, Portsmouth, Wednesday, Sheff Utd? The list is a long one! And where would we start? The National Conference Scottish section?

But if it ever happened, I would be instantly finished with 'Scottish' football.

P.S. The English league don't need Celtic and Rangers and probably don't want them. If they ever leave I think it would be some kind of European Super league as I am sure UEFA would love to concoct the next level of keeping the big boys on top forever.

[KWJ]

I quite like going to away games so...no?

Exactly. Hibs away to Plymouth on a winter Tuesday's night does not play into the hands of away fans at all. Unless we all get free flights.

[PeeJay]

This is talked about every year in terms of the old firm going. But if they go, we might as well all go. The Rotherham thing really puts it in perspective and look at clubs like Bournemouth and Wigan too. We just can't compete. Is there any point in keeping on isolating ourselves?

I know the question is would they let us in? But if they can make exceptions for Swansea and Cardiff...

I'm not a lawyer but I also wonder if they could stop us (under EU law), if we were prepared to work our way up from the bottom.

One thing is for sure if it's not on our agenda and we leave it up to the Old Firm, we will be nothing but an afterthought in the whole debate.

You don't think a third year in the Championship makes us an "afterthought" in the "debate" anyway? :confused:

[hibbyboy1]

Exactly. Hibs away to Plymouth on a winter Tuesday's night does not play into the hands of away fans at all. Unless we all get free flights.
What about hibs at home to chelsea/man utd/liverpool/arsenal/man city/spurs, in a 30,000 packed out easter road with the corners filled in.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I quite like going to away games so...no?

The English leagues allow away fans into the ground.

[marinello59]

There is no good reason for the Rnglish league to let us in so it will never happen.
It's up to Scottish football to rise to the challenges we face rather than expecting the English league to bail us out.

[Oscar T Grouch]

I'm a Scotland football fan, if there was a GB league system there wouldn't be a Scottish football team so I'm oot. Playing for years in the English conferences doesn't appeal anyway.

[hibbyboy1]

I'm a Scotland football fan, if there was a GB league system there wouldn't be a Scottish football team so I'm oot. Playing for years in the English conferences doesn't appeal anyway.
Wales have a national team and they have teams in the english league

[steakbake]

Scottish Football needs to sort itself. A move to England would be a financial disaster. At least 2-3 years playing really poor teams who'd send very few away fans before landing in League 1 at best. The OF media bangs on about it, but there's no chance it'd happen. I'd imagine the highest a Scottish club would get is the Championship, maybe a Premier League yoyo team. The top teams there have been coining it in for years - there's no way to compete with that.

[Oscar T Grouch]

Wales have a national team and they have teams in the english league

Wales have two teams in the English league and still have their own league.

[Holmesdale Hibs]

I can't decide whether I like the idea or not. It would be good to have a few glamour ties in the cup but then I do fear we'd be lost in the lower leagues. Just look at Winbledon and Plymouth yesterday taking huge support to Wembley, our large fan base in Scotland would be nothing special down there.

I can't see it ever happening though, mainly because the old firm are more trouble than they are worth and no one wants them damaging the premier league 'brand'.

[hibbyboy1]

Wales have two teams in the English league and still have their own league.
Could we not have 5/6 teams in the English league and keep our own league

[Alfred E Newman]

Also think this is the way to go. May take a few years but could see us become a top team

Aye right. That's some statement concidering the fact that it's taking us a few years to get out of this crap league.

[superfurryhibby]

Aye right. That's some statement concidering the fact that it's taking us a few years to get out of this crap league.

Touche!

Too much fantasy football for some.

It aint going to happen, ever, ever, ever....... End of

[greenpaper55]

Why would any English teams vote to allow us or any other teams to play in their league, this would make it more difficult for them to retain their own status in the league, it's a non starter. Besides , if the NATS get their way we would be a separate country so another no go !.

[Waxy]

We shouldnt join the English league though we should demand more sky tv money. All Scottish people dont subscribe to sky to watch Man utd.We're treated unfairly by sky. Maybe a British cup would be decent.

[J-C]

There has been talk for a while about a European super league which would see the top 5-6 EPL teams joining up with Europe's elite, if that happened then a restructuring of the leagues might happen.

[Oscar T Grouch]

Could we not have 5/6 teams in the English league and keep our own league

Which 5 or 6? who chooses? It would probably not be Hibs then, it would be SPL teams. Swansea and Cardiff are exceptions to the rules.

[Islington Hibs]

Sadly Sky's money and the Celtic/Rangers duopoly has killed Scottish football. Even Celtic now struggle in Europe. Each EPL game gets £10m of TV revenue. That is more than Hibs get in a season.

Frankly it depends what you want whether you support joining the English leagues or not. If you are a traditionalist and happy playing at the current level with the chance of cups but probably not much else stick with the devil you know.

However if you ever want to see any chance of Hibernian playing at a serious level again I am afraid there is little option but to follow the money. In time Hibs would be big enough to play in the EPL and although I think more regularly a Championship side. Same is undoubtedly true of Aberdeen and Hearts. The leagues are genuinely competitive unlike the SPFL.

It is a tough call. I would be sad to abandon Scottish leagues for many reasons but Rotherham shows just how far we have sunk. In my lifetime from giving Liverpool and Leeds Utd a game to where we are now.....If it was possible, and I don't think it is as EPL have shown no interest, I would probably tend to join the English leagues.

[GreenCastle]

Whenever this is mentioned I say 1 simple thing..

The English leagues don't need Scottish teams.

Why would they want to share their money with us - where would the Scottish teams enter (at the bottom of the pyramid which is non league?), do they need the old firm nonsense ?

It's not going to happen - we need them more than they need us.

Before all the SKy / BT money etc maybe but now no chance.

Scotland needs to restructure and get the main league better and better crowds / more affordable etc.

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

There has been talk for a while about a European super league which would see the top 5-6 EPL teams joining up with Europe's elite, if that happened then a restructuring of the leagues might happen.

If that happened then the rich clubs would only get richer and the other clubs would start to tail off considerably due to a lack of funds. All that Sky/BT money would be focuses on the Euro league.

[Ozyhibby]

Keeping Scottish teams out would not survive a legal challenge. It's only a matter of time before it happens.
I enjoy Scottish football and don't mind that we don't have the same money as England, I do see the attraction of getting away from the SFA and its corruption.
Change is coming. The bottom team in the BPL will receive £120m next season plus a £50m parachute payment. That's 3 times the turnover of Celtic, our biggest club. It would be better for Hibs, Aberdeen and Hearts to be part of this debate rather than waiting to see what happens. Staying in Scotlamd without the old firm would be suicide.


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[TAHibby]

Lunacy. How many fans would we take to royal cumbertown super police fc in the 20th tier, 400 miles away? It really doesn't make any sense at all and don't see why it would ever be granted. It took Wimbledon 14 years and that it a rare exception you would expect. We would become a Rotherham at very best and that would be after losing many years watching this trying to happen

[Scouse Hibee]

Wales have two teams in the English league and still have their own league.

Newport makes three,how about getting some English clubs into the Scottish league set up

[JeMeSouviens]

Keeping Scottish teams out would not survive a legal challenge. It's only a matter of time before it happens.
I enjoy Scottish football and don't mind that we don't have the same money as England, I do see the attraction of getting away from the SFA and its corruption.
Change is coming. The bottom team in the BPL will receive £120m next season plus a £50m parachute payment. That's 3 times the turnover of Celtic, our biggest club. It would be better for Hibs, Aberdeen and Hearts to be part of this debate rather than waiting to see what happens. Staying in Scotlamd without the old firm would be suicide.


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I agree with that. There is a strong push from within UEFA to make cross border leagues happen. They need to fix the problem of only Italy, Spain, France, Germany and England having large enough audiences to bring in big revenues. That leaves lots of big clubs on the outside, like Celtc, Ajax, Porto, etc.

The joker in the pack could be Catalan independence. There will be enormous pressure (from both sides) to keep Barcelona in La Liga.

I'd go for a full scale British Isles league with a regional pyramid. Hibs are a big city club with potential to be at or close to the top level and even a European power again. There's also potential from Ireland to build something big in Dublin and Cork. A rump Scottish league without the OF and no access to the top table would be consigning ourselves to history.

[Callum7]

No

[Moulin Yarns]

Newport makes three,how about getting some English clubs into the Scottish league set up

Cardiff, Swansea, Newport, Wrexham, Merthyr Town, Colwyn Bay all play in the English League system

[J-C]

Newport makes three,how about getting some English clubs into the Scottish league set up


Already here, Berwick.

[Scouse Hibee]

Cardiff, Swansea, Newport, Wrexham, Merthyr Town, Colwyn Bay all play in the English League system

Yes I know,I was referring to being in the FL set up. Have watched Colwyn Bay several times when in North Wales.

[chippy]

I agree with that. There is a strong push from within UEFA to make cross border leagues happen. They need to fix the problem of only Italy, Spain, France, Germany and England having large enough audiences to bring in big revenues. That leaves lots of big clubs on the outside, like Celtc, Ajax, Porto, etc.

The joker in the pack could be Catalan independence. There will be enormous pressure (from both sides) to keep Barcelona in La Liga.

I'd go for a full scale British Isles league with a regional pyramid. Hibs are a big city club with potential to be at or close to the top level and even a European power again. There's also potential from Ireland to build something big in Dublin and Cork. A rump Scottish league without the OF and no access to the top table would be consigning ourselves to history.

It does look like the football league are creating an opening here and I'll be surprised if Celtic and Rangers don't apply. I agree that Hibs , Hearts, Aberdeen and the Dundee clubs need to be involved in any negotiations. Could envisage a rump Scottish league with Celtic and Rangers A teams and don't fancy that unless it's our A team in it. We should be confident as big city club with a large local fan base of doing well in a UK league set up, even if we have to work up through the league system. The crowds at the lower leagues in England are decent and the opportunities for large investment would increase greatly. Could envisage Hibs as a Championship club potential Pl club with gates above 25k easily. If we were in league 1, 2 or the new 3 I'd still think our home gates would be good and better than now. If we were pushing for promotion or play offs in these leagues i would anticipate big average home gates of 15k even in league 3 and higher as we climb the leagues. No need for it to mean the end of the Scottish team, indeed it could herald a rebirth if we have 6 or even 10 clubs in the Uk system. If a Uk league is a no go for us we have to be looking at merged leagues with the Scandics.

[we are hibs]

Nonsense.



the best we can hope for is that Celtic and rangers bolt down to England and leave the rest of us to get on with it. It'd be more competitive. Less corrupt. More fans would attend and a higher possibility of summer football.

[Waxy]

Newport makes three,how about getting some English clubs into the Scottish league set up

Carlisle

[givescotlandfreedom]

The English league set up don't want us or need us. Days like the cup final wouldn't ever happen again and July would be our last (ever?) trip into Europe. We'd be better trying to fix our own league imo.

[easty]

The English league set up don't want us or need us. Days like the cup final wouldn't ever happen again and July would be our last (ever?) trip into Europe. We'd be better trying to fix our own league imo.

:agree:

[MyJo]

It won't be too long before there is some form of permanent euroleague with the biggest clubs doing away with the need to qualify for the champions league each year and UEFA establishing its own permanent league and cup competitions for the elite few, and when that happens thats where the money will go

[Phil MaGlass]

I just wish The Rangers and ra sellik would get into the English league, would make our game more appetising, meaningful games, more harmony between clubs, bigot element gone(almost), more enjoyment, entertainment (the chance to win the Scottish Cup more often), .
If it ever does happen, the ugly sisters should under no circumstances be allowed to have B teams or whatever the f they want to call them playing in the Scottish system.
Once they go they are gone.
Oh and there is no need for us to join the English leagues.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I used to think that one day some of the bigger Scottish clubs could expand into a British league or into the English leagues ... but as the money down south has got bigger and bigger the chances of that ever happening have become less and less. As somebody else said, why would English clubs lower down the pecking order allow competition from Scottish clubs for their pot of gold.

Forgetting the ugly sisters the likes of Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen would be seen as a direct threat by clubs like Plymouth, Millwall, Bristol Rovers, Carlisle, 'Rotherham' and a host of other lower to middle ranking clubs, to them allowing us in would be like Turkeys voting for Christmas.

UEFA will probably have to contend with some countries merging their leagues in the future, but the truth is that is much more likely to be Belgium and The Netherlands or the countries that made up the old Czechoslovakia than Scotland and England.

Of all the countries in Europe we probably suffer the most from the piles of cash flooding into English football .... clubs in the bloomin' GM Vauxhall Evo Stick premier league conference south, or whatever they call it, are paying wages that half our premiership clubs cant match and our young kids and far too many adults are star struck by the very sight of Gary Lineker on a Saturday night and SKY Super Sunday.

This country is packed with football experts who never set foot in a Scottish football ground, but delight in telling you "Scottish football is *****" because they compare it to the EPL matches they watch on the telly ....... Our biggest fight is getting these dolts to enjoy our game for what it is rather than comparing apples and oranges .... do that and we wouldn't need dreams of joining England's footballing Nirvana.

[MWHIBBIES]

The English leagues allow away fans into the ground.Very good...

[nellio]

Different situation which led to Cardiff and Swansea being in the English League.

From a Cardiff perspective they were playing English teams week in/week out anyway in search of better opposition so when the football league was formed we were invited to join.

[chippy]

The English league set up don't want us or need us. Days like the cup final wouldn't ever happen again and July would be our last (ever?) trip into Europe. We'd be better trying to fix our own league imo.

But there won't be anymore days like the cup final if Celtic and Rangers bolt. Hibs will be forced into a decision if Hearts and Aberdeen apply to join the English leagues as well. Would u still want Hibs not to get involved in the discussions if these clubs were wanting to bolt as well? We have to be alive to the changes that are predicted by many and not be caught looking backwards.

[nellio]

I should add that UEFA then told Wales to create their own league if we wanted to keep the national team so that's why the league of wales was formed in the early 90's despite the absence of the best Welsh teams.

[WeeRussell]

Thanks but 100% absolutely NO thanks.

[Baldy Foghorn]

What about hibs at home to chelsea/man utd/liverpool/arsenal/man city/spurs, in a 30,000 packed out easter road with the corners filled in.

Complete pie in the sky..............

[GreenCastle]

I agree with that. There is a strong push from within UEFA to make cross border leagues happen. They need to fix the problem of only Italy, Spain, France, Germany and England having large enough audiences to bring in big revenues. That leaves lots of big clubs on the outside, like Celtc, Ajax, Porto, etc.

The joker in the pack could be Catalan independence. There will be enormous pressure (from both sides) to keep Barcelona in La Liga.

I'd go for a full scale British Isles league with a regional pyramid. Hibs are a big city club with potential to be at or close to the top level and even a European power again. There's also potential from Ireland to build something big in Dublin and Cork. A rump Scottish league without the OF and no access to the top table would be consigning ourselves to history.

They already have cross border leagues..

Champions league and Europe League.

To me this is so clear - they don't need the old firm or Scottish football.

Of course if an opportunity ever came around we should jump at it but it won't. We will continue to have the same teams and governing body for years to come.

Hibs coming 2nd or 3rd minimum in the league is more realistic (or even winning the cup to get into Europe).

[Ozyhibby]

But there won't be anymore days like the cup final if Celtic and Rangers bolt. Hibs will be forced into a decision if Hearts and Aberdeen apply to join the English leagues as well. Would u still want Hibs not to get involved in the discussions if these clubs were wanting to bolt as well? We have to be alive to the changes that are predicted by many and not be caught looking backwards.

Correct. The status quo may not be an option. Change is coming, I just don't know what form it will take. Hibs need to be involved in whatever discussions take place.


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[Ozyhibby]

There is also nothing to stop the Scottish Cup surviving.


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[Michael]

If we were in the English league we'd be a struggling league 1/2 side. The best we could hope for is a Johnstone's Paint Trophy. No thanks.

[HappyHanlon]

:cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:

Some people on here must still be partying hard.

Join the English League :rotflmao::rotflmao:

No chance of happening and wouldn't be interested. Might suit the fair weather contingent who have always wanted to visit Blyth Spartans or Grimsby but it wouldn't be financially viable for fans who back their team week in week out.

[Toldo123]

:cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:

Some people on here must still be partying hard.

Join the English League :rotflmao::rotflmao:

No chance of happening and wouldn't be interested. Might suit the fair weather contingent who have always wanted to visit Blyth Spartans or Grimsby but it wouldn't be financially viable for fans who back their team week in week out.

100% agree

I go to most away games and is a big part of my life.

Lets face it with our gates (and virtually zero away support in a uk league), we would more than likely be a league one team.

There are two main reasons why it wont happen either

1) The teams in England would not vote for it as it would essentially be more competition. Spots in the premier league are like gold dust. Like it or not the old firm with their gates would be realistic contenders after a few years of playing in england with their big crowds etc. Can you realistically see the clubs down there wanting the possibility of that to happen. The only possible scenario is where sky/bt want the old firm to try and liven things up etc but at the moment due to the commecial success of that league, such a scenario is not on the horizon. And to be honest it is only the old firm that sky/bt would want. The other clubs in scotland would hold no appeal unfortunately.


2) worry of trouble between sets of fans. Manchester a few years ago is still very much fresh in the memory.

[chippy]

:cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:

Some people on here must still be partying hard.

Join the English League :rotflmao::rotflmao:

No chance of happening and wouldn't be interested. Might suit the fair weather contingent who have always wanted to visit Blyth Spartans or Grimsby but it wouldn't be financially viable for fans who back their team week in week out.

Away games will be a doddle once HS2 and 3 and 4 arrive sometime after 2033. Make it a condition of a UK league that clubs have to be close to the high speed line

[lucky]

If the old firm went it would lead to the demise of Scottish football. The next generation of fans would support one of them and maybe have a Scottish team too. There would be little or no money in Scottish football. TV & advertisers would not be interested. Our league would diminish to the level of Ireland or Wales. For me they shouldn't be allowed to go without all of us. But the reality Hibs at this moment in time would not even figure in the thinking

[Geo_1875]

Exactly. Hibs away to Plymouth on a winter Tuesday's night does not play into the hands of away fans at all. Unless we all get free flights.

Folk complain about Inverness midweek. Imagine the getting Plymouth on Boxing Day. :rolleyes:

[Finn2015]

Each to their own but if someone asked me would I prefer to see Hibernian start in the league 2 in England then yes, I would prefer that to happen. It's at the bottom tier of the 4 professional leagues but I'd like to think we could develop and progress from there

[GreenLake]

:cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:

Some people on here must still be partying hard.

Join the English League :rotflmao::rotflmao:

No chance of happening and wouldn't be interested. Might suit the fair weather contingent who have always wanted to visit Blyth Spartans or Grimsby but it wouldn't be financially viable for fans who back their team week in week out.

1000 miles is a short away trip over here in the MLS and some teams are in Canada. :greengrin

[G B Young]

If the Rangers and Celtic were to leave the Scottish league then yes a nationwide league is something that would probably save our game from becoming even more of a backwater than it already has. The tired old format of playing the same team four or more times a season makes the Scottish league a very dull one and if we were part of a UK league it would throw in a lot more interesting away day options. More expensive obviously, but you could pick and choose your away games and make a weekend of it if we were playing in one of England's more attractive towns or cities.

I think Hibs would actually do OK in a nationwide league. The fact that the Rotherham job is now seen as one worth leaving Hibs for sums up how far the stock of the Scottish game has fallen. There's no question we are historically the more prestigious club and if we could access some of the cash floating around the English leagues we might reclaim some of that prestige. No question a trip to Edinburgh would be an attractive one for many fans and I imagine we'd get bigger crowds turning up to see games against English clubs rather the all too familiar Scottish opponents.

[chippy]

Each to their own but if someone asked me would I prefer to see Hibernian start in the league 2 in England then yes, I would prefer that to happen. It's at the bottom tier of the 4 professional leagues but I'd like to think we could develop and progress from there
It would be league 3 as the football league idea is to have 4 leagues of 20 below the premier. This is to be decided next year. Sure some clubs in England won't want us jocks competing with them but some will want it.But there would be increased revenue streams for all if the scots clubs joined. I've a feeling they will end up with 4 leagues of 22 each which could create a lot of room for up to 16 new entrants rather than the 8 envisaged. I think that if that is the case taking 6 or so scots clubs would be much more attractive to the English legislators and public than some on here imagine. Sky Virgin and BT would be all over it. Scots city clubs value would rocket immediately. We have at least 5 big city clubs who would be much more marketable and attractive than some of the non league conference outfits to make up the numbers for the expanded league set up.

[macd123]

The English league set up don't want us or need us. Days like the cup final wouldn't ever happen again and July would be our last (ever?) trip into Europe. We'd be better trying to fix our own league imo.

We could keep the cups. It's the league that's the problem. Is our league really fixable?

[Geo_1875]

We could keep the cups. It's the league that's the problem. Is our league really fixable?

Yes our league is fixable but our authorities, and some clubs, don't have the will to do it.

[Phil MaGlass]

I am sorry, I am Scottish not British or English, if Hibs were to enter a British or English League then its lights out from me. Does anyone also honestly think we would amount to anything in England, do you think we would ever land in another cup final, wake up ffs, this has absolutely no benefit for the game in Scotland except for the uglies, we cant even get out the f,n lower division in Scotland.

[macd123]

Yes our league is fixable but our authorities, and some clubs, don't have the will to do it.


I agree with you but it's just so difficult to see it changing. How long will we have to wait? The one favour the FA would do us that the SFA are too weak to do is sort out the sectarian bile that comes with the Bigot Brothers. They wouldn't stand for it.

Genuine question but are Swansea a bigger club than us in terms of fan base?

[Ozyhibby]

I agree with you but it's just so difficult to see it changing. How long will we have to wait? The one favour the FA would do us that the SFA are too weak to do is sort out the sectarian bile that comes with the Bigot Brothers. They wouldn't stand for it.

Genuine question but are Swansea a bigger club than us in terms of fan base?

Going by this I don't think so.
http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn/aveeng.htm

If we were in the BPL, would we sell out Easter road every game? I think so.
Looking at that table I think our natural position, along with Hearts and Aberdeen, would be in the Championship. There would possibly be the odd season in the premiership or Leaugue 1.


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[chippy]

I am sorry, I am Scottish not British or English, if Hibs were to enter a British or English League then its lights out from me. Does anyone also honestly think we would amount to anything in England, do you think we would ever land in another cup final, wake up ffs, this has absolutely no benefit for the game in Scotland except for the uglies, we cant even get out the f,n lower division in Scotland.
I think we would do better than you think. At least there is some imagination in England regarding league reorganisation. This is sadly lacking up here as we have stupidly small leagues that has fxxxxd our game up here for so long allied with the domination of the game and it's governance by the old firm and their stooges. Hibs were a big big club in British and even European terms from the 50s to the 70s. Things change and you have to adapt or die a slow death which seems to be what's happening to our league. Cross border leagues will I think be a feature of new structures in Europe and around the world. Hibs and Hearts are in a great and growing capital city. Investors will be gagging to buy us f we can get into a UK league set up. We will need to make sure we as supporters get to 51 % share holding to protect the club and its traditions

[Carheenlea]

"Stop fur chips in Fenny Drayton driver"

[G B Young]

I think we would do better than you think. At least there is some imagination in England regarding league reorganisation. This is sadly lacking up here as we have stupidly small leagues that has fxxxxd our game up here for so long allied with the domination of the game and it's governance by the old firm and their stooges. Hibs were a big big club in British and even European terms from the 50s to the 70s. Things change and you have to adapt or die a slow death which seems to be what's happening to our league. Cross border leagues will I think be a feature of new structures in Europe and around the world. Hibs and Hearts are in a great and growing capital city. Investors will be gagging to buy us f we can get into a UK league set up. We will need to make sure we as supporters get to 51 % share holding to protect the club and its traditions

I'd imagine that in bigger European countries, there are many games where barely any away fans make the trip to certain games bearing in mind the distances involved. A nationwide UK league would perhaps end up similar, with, say, Ross County fans unlikely to travel to Plymouth etc, but overall I agree it could be an exciting opportunity to revitalise our club and restore its standing as a club once known for their European exploits.

[NAE NOOKIE]

If we were in the English league we'd be a struggling league 1/2 side. The best we could hope for is a Johnstone's Paint Trophy. No thanks.

Much as I think any prospect of us being in an English / British set up highly unlikely I think you are being extremely pessimistic as to what our standing would end up being in such a set up.

If someone finds Bournemouth an attractive proposition and can get them into the EPL there is absolutely no reason why Hibs would not be an even better prospect. We are based in one of Europe's best cities ( never mind the UK ) and Edinburgh is growing all the time, it will soon overtake Glasgow as Scotland's biggest city .... probably some time in the next 20 years. No club in the Scottish league is much of a prospect for investment .... but Hibs, Hearts or Aberdeen in a British set up would be a whole different ball game.

The argument that the old firm would crash and burn in the EPL is only based on their spending power at the moment ..... anybody who thinks they wouldn't be giants even in the EPL if they were granted access to the TV money English clubs have is deluded .... Celtic were regularly getting 60,000 at home games in the SPL not long ago ... if they were in the EPL they could probably increase Celtic park to 70,000 and fill it and the currant buns are probably the same with Ibrox.

The only problem is that from day one of their admittance to the English leagues both the ugly sisters would leech potential fans from what was left in Scotland ..... if you are a 10 year old kid what would you rather support, a Scottish club playing Hamilton, Ross County and Killie on a Saturday, or a Scottish club playing Liverpool, Man Utd and Arsenal?

Scottish football would only benefit from the absence of the ugly sisters if that absence was caused by their oblivion .... having them play in England would be the death knell for full time professional football outside of Glasgow.

[chippy]

Much as I think any prospect of us being in an English / British set up highly unlikely I think you are being extremely pessimistic as to what our standing would end up being in such a set up.

If someone finds Bournemouth an attractive proposition and can get them into the EPL there is absolutely no reason why Hibs would not be an even better prospect. We are based in one of Europe's best cities ( never mind the UK ) and Edinburgh is growing all the time, it will soon overtake Glasgow as Scotland's biggest city .... probably some time in the next 20 years. No club in the Scottish league is much of a prospect for investment .... but Hibs, Hearts or Aberdeen in a British set up would be a whole different ball game.

The argument that the old firm would crash and burn in the EPL is only based on their spending power at the moment ..... anybody who thinks they wouldn't be giants even in the EPL if they were granted access to the TV money English clubs have is deluded .... Celtic were regularly getting 60,000 at home games in the SPL not long ago ... if they were in the EPL they could probably increase Celtic park to 70,000 and fill it and the currant buns are probably the same with Ibrox.

The only problem is that from day one of their admittance to the English leagues both the ugly sisters would leech potential fans from what was left in Scotland ..... if you are a 10 year old kid what would you rather support, a Scottish club playing Hamilton, Ross County and Killie on a Saturday, or a Scottish club playing Liverpool, Man Utd and Arsenal?

Scottish football would only benefit from the absence of the ugly sisters if that absence was caused by their oblivion .... having them play in England would be the death knell for full time professional football outside of Glasgow.

Are you agreeing that if they go we have to go or die?

[Ozyhibby]

Are you agreeing that if they go we have to go or die?

If they go we all have to go or we won't survive. Our infrastructure is too big for what would be left of Scottish football.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[NAE NOOKIE]

Are you agreeing that if they go we have to go or die?

Pretty well mate ...... Historically it has been a job to keep kids away from the clutches of the ugly sisters. If they were in the EPL that would be close to impossible in my opinion.

The only way to keep a grip of our future fan base would be to be part of the same set up ... perhaps not in the EPL obviously, but at least hopefully championship level.

[greenpaper55]

As i said in another post, why would the English teams vote to allow us and others in to their detriment, it will never happen. The OF are mickey mouse compared to the clubs in the EPL, Spurs have a ST waiting list of 50k !. Can you imagine the likes of Newcastle, Villa and any you care to mention voting in the OF to the the EPL?

[NAE NOOKIE]

As i said in another post, why would the English teams vote to allow us and others in to their detriment, it will never happen. The OF are mickey mouse compared to the clubs in the EPL, Spurs have a ST waiting list of 50k !. Can you imagine the likes of Newcastle, Villa and any you care to mention voting in the OF to the the EPL?

Sorry mate, and I hate to stick up for the bigot brothers, but in regard to the crowds they could draw in an EPL context they are far from Mickey Mouse clubs.

[JeMeSouviens]

Much as I think any prospect of us being in an English / British set up highly unlikely I think you are being extremely pessimistic as to what our standing would end up being in such a set up.

If someone finds Bournemouth an attractive proposition and can get them into the EPL there is absolutely no reason why Hibs would not be an even better prospect. We are based in one of Europe's best cities ( never mind the UK ) and Edinburgh is growing all the time, it will soon overtake Glasgow as Scotland's biggest city .... probably some time in the next 20 years. No club in the Scottish league is much of a prospect for investment .... but Hibs, Hearts or Aberdeen in a British set up would be a whole different ball game.

The argument that the old firm would crash and burn in the EPL is only based on their spending power at the moment ..... anybody who thinks they wouldn't be giants even in the EPL if they were granted access to the TV money English clubs have is deluded .... Celtic were regularly getting 60,000 at home games in the SPL not long ago ... if they were in the EPL they could probably increase Celtic park to 70,000 and fill it and the currant buns are probably the same with Ibrox.

The only problem is that from day one of their admittance to the English leagues both the ugly sisters would leech potential fans from what was left in Scotland ..... if you are a 10 year old kid what would you rather support, a Scottish club playing Hamilton, Ross County and Killie on a Saturday, or a Scottish club playing Liverpool, Man Utd and Arsenal?

Scottish football would only benefit from the absence of the ugly sisters if that absence was caused by their oblivion .... having them play in England would be the death knell for full time professional football outside of Glasgow.

All spot on. :agree:

We would easily fill Easter Road in the premier league as well. There is no way that Hibs couldn't be as big as the likes of Norwich, Swansea, etc ... even Leicester. :wink:

[Hi Heid Yin]

The Scottish game is all but dead. It is tedious, boring and slowly but surely sinking into the mire of oblivion.
The same handful of clubs competing for 3rd place forever and a day is all that we have to look forward to.
The Old Firm domination of the top two places is sealed, simply because of their vast support.
The best that the rest can do is win The Scottish or League Cup.
We have just accomplished all that we are ever going to accomplish within Scottish football.
I feel that change has to come. The sooner, the better. The thoughts of Hibs being accommodated into a reshuffled British league (with the top EPL clubs heading for the continent and a super league) has an element of excitement attached to it. It would be a fresh start for many clubs, but who would be brave enough to take up the challenge. Too many simply want to stick to the tedium and "the devil they know" than risk change.

[High-On-Hibs]

We're a Scottish club playing in Scotland. We should be looking at what we can do to improve the game up here. Not resign ourselves to down there. Big money isn't everything.

[chippy]

We're a Scottish club playing in Scotland. We should be looking at what we can do to improve the game up here. Not resign ourselves to down there. Big money isn't everything.

Improve the game up here mmmm do you think that is possible with all the agendas. Scotland where the beaks go out of their way to finesse a new club into the league set up , where the 'innovation' of play offs stuffs teams like Hibs and United yet the clubs that have over spent are allowed to keep their titles and cups won with shady financing. Where a bigger league is wanted by the vast majority of fans yet the decision makers stick to the tired old system so 4 old firm gams can be sold to the TV, where half the premier league clubs depend on home gates against the old firm. What hope for improvements here. Let's ride on the coat tails of the old firm for once and get into a UK league and take our chances

[Hibrandenburg]

What a ridiculous thread. Surely a wind up?

[jgl07]

Wales have two teams in the English league and still have their own league.
Wales have far more than two teams in the English League system:

Swansea (PL)
Cardiff (Ch)
Newport (L2)
Wrexham (NL)
Merthyr (Southern League)

Arguably Chester (NL) as their ground is largely in Wales.

[Keith_M]

Why on earth would the English Leagues want us?

[NAE NOOKIE]

Why on earth would the English Leagues want us?

Coz the English leagues are packed with **** clubs with **** histories .... because two thirds of their clubs start every season thinking about the money and not the glory ..... and they would be lucky to have the privilege of having their teams share the same pitch as the mighty, glorious Hibees !!!


:flag:

[northstandhibby]

We're a Scottish club playing in Scotland. We should be looking at what we can do to improve the game up here. Not resign ourselves to down there. Big money isn't everything.

That was my first instinct too. A free for all football without national borders would create chaos and devastation imho.

It would be a novelty to begin with. If Celtic or Sevco Huns want to go- brilliant. That would be change for the good. It would leave the rest of the clubs on a much more equal basis to scrap it out for the major trophies. The Gutter toilet press like the Daily ranger and Sun would be irrelevant to the rest of us as it would concentrate only on they two and I'm sure another less biased Newspaper would pick up the reins.

I would very much welcome especially the sevco huns getting as far away as possible from Scottish Football. It might even be the case the SFA would move from Glasgow and to Edinburgh.


Glory Glory

[LancashireHibby]

Those citing Welsh clubs need to bear in mind that the likes of Cardiff, Swansea and Wrexham played in the English leagues over a century before the Welsh league was formed, while taking a look at the struggles that the likes of Colwyn Bay, Merthyr and Newport (plus at the time Bangor, Caernarfon and Rhyl) went through to win the right to remain in the English pyramid.

[southern hibby]

I would love to see us go and I do believe it would be hard at first but we would prevail I believe.

However would it really happen??? Remember Manchester and the pasting it took from the loyalists and that isn't from Cromwell during the civil war I'm referring to.

Would they vote for it probably not unless SKY wanted it to happen and threatened to pull the plug, again not going to happen.

I for one would rather play Wolves, Yeovil, Lincoln City to the big teams and enjoy the football than the same usual suspects.
I've enjoyed being in the championship up to a point because it's been different clubs to play against. Also think of this, we've been to two cup finals in the same year from lower division and won our first Scottish cup in years. We're in Europe and it's been in my eyes something different from the same usual stuff.

Imagine Hibs playing big teams again like they did so many years ago!!! I think it would be awesome.

GGTTH

[High-On-Hibs]

Improve the game up here mmmm do you think that is possible with all the agendas. Scotland where the beaks go out of their way to finesse a new club into the league set up , where the 'innovation' of play offs stuffs teams like Hibs and United yet the clubs that have over spent are allowed to keep their titles and cups won with shady financing. Where a bigger league is wanted by the vast majority of fans yet the decision makers stick to the tired old system so 4 old firm gams can be sold to the TV, where half the premier league clubs depend on home gates against the old firm. What hope for improvements here. Let's ride on the coat tails of the old firm for once and get into a UK league and take our chances Look, we complain that we have nothing much to play for up here. I can guarantee you that we would have absolutely nothing to play for down there. Sure, the novelty of playing the likes of Man City and Tottenham (if we were ever actually to make it into the premier league) would be great at first. But after season after season of being pummeled 5-0, 6-0, 7-0.... etc. Fans wouldn't want to keep going, regardless of who we're playing. We might not like the Scottish Leagues or the way they are run. But it is our level.

[chippy]

Look, we complain that we have nothing much to play for up here. I can guarantee you that we would have absolutely nothing to play for down there. Sure, the novelty of playing the likes of Man City and Tottenham (if we were ever actually to make it into the premier league) would be great at first. But after season after season of being pummeled 5-0, 6-0, 7-0.... etc. Fans wouldn't want to keep going, regardless of who we're playing. We might not like the Scottish Leagues or the way they are run. But it is our level.

Or we could up our level.,if we were able to get to the EPL we'd have big bucks from the TV deals from a spell in the championship and epl. What about clubs like Swansea, West Brom, Norwich, Bournemouth maybe we would thrive. I think we could and if not so what, it's worth a go. Edinburgh is the 7th largest populated city in the UK and growing fast. Dunno how you can guarantee we would have nothing to play for.

[Hibernian blade]

The old firm would get into the Premier league and stay there once the Sky money kicked in.
Ourselves,Hearts,Aberdeen and possibly the Dundee clubs (merged) may make a go hovering between League 1 and Championship with a possible flutter into the Premier league occasionally.
But I will say the travel is horrific. I've had three season tickets at Hibernian and traveling from South Yorkshire is a bind. Every other week a 3.5 hour journey (if the roads are clear) and the same home unless you have digs is a real drag, particularly in a freezing cold February when you've drawn 0-0.
That said from a selfish point of view I would love The Hibees in the English league as I'd see a lot more of them.

[jgl07]

Those citing Welsh clubs need to bear in mind that the likes of Cardiff, Swansea and Wrexham played in the English leagues over a century before the Welsh league was formed, while taking a look at the struggles that the likes of Colwyn Bay, Merthyr and Newport (plus at the time Bangor, Caernarfon and Rhyl) went through to win the right to remain in the English pyramid.
Newport had to play their home matches over the border in Gloucestershire for a spell to keep their place in the English system until the Football Association of Wales relented.

I do think that the Scottish League system is dying if not already dead. The only hope would be to somehow eliminate the uglies.

The English Leagues do not want Rangers and Celtic. The memories of Rangers' fans trashing Manchester when the reached the UEFA Cup final a few years are still there. I suspect that only Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen and possibly Dundee United could be sustained in the Championship or League One. The smaller clubs operating in League One or Two would probably not be welcomed as it would add to the travelling costs. It is bad enough travelling from Plymouth to Hartlepools.

I just don't see how it could happen short of a total reorganisation of European football.