Is it time to scrap the development team?

[spike220]

Is it time to scrap the development team given it has produced so few first team players in the last 5 years. These funds could then be invested in the first team.

[tine0802]

Is it time to scrap the development team given it has produced so few first team players in the last 5 years. These funds could then be invested in the first team.

Its not that the development team isnt producing, its that the current regime isnt interested in giving them a chance. Look at young McGregor, released after playing great for Berwick on loan, created a bidding frenzy and Hamilton, in the SPL, won, with Canning saying he WILL get his chance.

On the contrary, the club NEED these lads more than ever....lowly paid lads who are gagging on a chance

[CallumHibs07]

unless we get new people running it then yes, it's failing miserably and has done so for years.

[tine0802]

Load of nonsense. What needs to happen is someone needs to recognise the talent they have. They send boys out on loan, they develop beautifully but are never given a chance. A spl game yesterday featured 2 lads who didnt even make 20s at hibs as they werent deemed good enough, a young defender released a couple weeks ago created a bidding frenzy and snapped ul by a spl club.

Its not that we cant produce...someone somewhere is letting these lads go and its criminal!

[lucky]

I think the fact tat none of the lads released has done anything proves it that the club was right to let them go. As for scrapping the development squad I believe it would be a backward step. Player development takes years. Hibs will start producing players again but Fenlon and Butcher were not overly interested in the academy

[Michael]

We should be investing more money into it (after reviewing the structure). We're missing a great opportunity to sell quality players to rich English clubs.

[IberianHibernian]

I think the fact tat none of the lads released has done anything proves it that the club was right to let them go. As for scrapping the development squad I believe it would be a backward step. Player development takes years. Hibs will start producing players again but Fenlon and Butcher were not overly interested in the academyFenlon and Butcher both took over mid season with the team struggling ( especially in case of Fenlon since Butcher took over with Hibs in top 6 ) so wouldn`t single them out for criticism . Fenlon played Forster in a Derby and a cup final with almost no first team experience , likewise Caldwell , Harris and Handling .

[Hi Heid Yin]

The thought of other clubs (ie Hearts) capturing, developing and then selling on for a huge profit young talent at our expense does not bare thinking about.
We have to persevere. Gems will eventually come along.

[polarbear]

We've a good record in bringing through young players so why would we do that?
Not a great idea IMO.

[MWHIBBIES]

We have 4 players who played for our youth side in the first team squad (Thomson, Stevenson, Hanlon and Cummings), cant be many teams with more than that?

Scrapping it would be extremely stupid.

[Centre Hawf]

I knkw Brentford have taken the steps to close their academy, or large chunks off it, and it only consists off a small development team. But they're competing for players on a huge scale and have huge costs in moving these players to London.

There's potential for that to happen but I wouldnt agree with it north of the border especially for a club like ourselves. For me the age group teams are much more than producing players. They teach kids a lot about hard work, team work, looking after yourself in a vaiety of ways, something football can do for many. So no, the development team shouldnt be scraped. It should be highlighted more. And in my opinion it should be in any managers contract in Scotland to produce these players or give them chances. Its the only way the game here in a domestic and international sense can kick on.

[Since90+2]

We have 4 players who played for our youth side in the first team squad (Thomson, Stevenson, Hanlon and Cummings), cant be many teams with more than that?

Scrapping it would be extremely stupid.

It would be daft to scrap it but of those 4 Cummings was not a product of our youth development and Thomson was part of the setup what 15 years ago?

Ill give you Hanlon and Stevenson but even then they have been in the team for years now. Who is the last player to make it as a first team regular that was produced from our youth system?

Our inability to produce young players over the last few years is another area where the club have failed.

[Andy74]

We've made some pretty big changes on this front. It will take some time to work through though surely?

[scoopyboy]

I think that it is the Development League that isn't working.

Clubs including Hibs are sending their laddies out to lower league clubs for games instead of playing them.

[matty_f]

We've made some pretty big changes on this front. It will take some time to work through though surely?

:agree: It would seem reasonable to expect that.

[TonyStokeprano]

I think that it is the Development League that isn't working.

Clubs including Hibs are sending their laddies out to lower league clubs for games instead of playing them.

And then releasing the ones that do well out on loan lol

[Brightside]

A bidding frenzy??? Perhaps over played. Crane , dunsmore and Shaw have a chance.

[Danderhall Hibs]

A bidding frenzy??? Perhaps over played. Crane , dunsmore and Shaw have a chance.

I've only been to one development game in the last 2 seasons (v Hearts at Easter 2015) but I thought Crane looked the part.

No sure about Dunsmore - I thought him being loaned to Edinburgh City was a signal they didn't think he had it?

[Golden Bear]

I've not voted in the poll but it's clear that if we do have a "plan" then it needs to be revised as the supposed conveyor belt of talent is just not there - either that or the Manager is reluctant to take a chance.

As things stand, we seem to "develop" players up to a certain standard then either send them out on loan or release them.

It's hardly a success story that's for sure.

[GreenCastle]

What development players are being released this year ? Saw a few things on Twitter.

The lack of emerging talent playing 1st team is a concern for me.

Stubbs basically going for experience over youth.

I don't expect loads of players always coming through but we should have at least 2 a season being exposed to the first team. I'm struggling to name 2 for this season.

[J-C]

I voted yes, I've heard discussion on various radio and tv programmes and the majority of the ex players say that a proper reserve league is what is needed, the mixture of young emerging talent and older players keeping up their fitness/coming back from injury. There's a big difference playing against guys your own age and then coming up against senior pros, bigger, stronger more mentally stronger.

I remember when I left school and was at college, I turned up for pre season with the senior squad, my first thoughts were, jeez these guys are huge, big 6'4" massive grown men and me 5'8" 13 st inside centre but I tell you what I soon knuckled down and learnt a lot in that 1st season playing for the 2nd's, I played 1st team rugby within 18 months.

We need a small group of development players mixed with a handful of seniors playing reserves, it worked well in the past.

[tine0802]

A bidding frenzy??? Perhaps over played. Crane , dunsmore and Shaw have a chance.

Ok re-phrase that's - 6 teams, most of which were championship or above vying to sign him. I know his agent. I think that alone shows that mistakes are made in assessing young players. However, one mans meat and all that! if the gaffer doesn't fancy you, theres nothing you can do to stop them leaving for nothing, which in itself is a waste of development time and money.

[ballengeich]

Could we scrap it if we wanted to? I had the idea that a development team was a requirement of league membership.

[JC94]

We should do what Sevco did, send majority of U20's out on loan and fill the development squad with U17's

[Ozyhibby]

We just missed out on a couple of ten year olds because East mains is too far to travel. Nothing to do with development team but important none the less. We really need a base in edinburgh for the younger age groups.
The Yams got them btw.


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[Brightside]

Ok re-phrase that's - 6 teams, most of which were championship or above vying to sign him. I know his agent. I think that alone shows that mistakes are made in assessing young players. However, one mans meat and all that! if the gaffer doesn't fancy you, theres nothing you can do to stop them leaving for nothing, which in itself is a waste of development time and money.

He wasn't good enough so he was let go.

[Brightside]

We just missed out on a couple of ten year olds because East mains is too far to travel. Nothing to do with development team but important none the less. We really need a base in edinburgh for the younger age groups.
The Yams got them btw.


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We need to stop wasting money on 10yo. SFA should scrap all pro-youth until 15. I'm told a new draft system is coming in and "dev" players will be loaned out to lower division teams to aid development.

BTW it takes 25 mins to get to East Mains from Gorgie? Not sure why that would be the reason.

[jacomo]

We should be investing more money into it (after reviewing the structure). We're missing a great opportunity to sell quality players to rich English clubs.

100% this.

There's no money in Scottish football. The club that finishes 20th in the EPL next season will get £100m in TV cash.

Trying to tap into that transfer market is pretty much the best opportunity we have.

[Beefster]

Ok re-phrase that's - 6 teams, most of which were championship or above vying to sign him. I know his agent. I think that alone shows that mistakes are made in assessing young players. However, one mans meat and all that! if the gaffer doesn't fancy you, theres nothing you can do to stop them leaving for nothing, which in itself is a waste of development time and money.

Evaluating any player, never mind a young one, isn't a science. Some you win, some you lose. It seems like the vast majority of the time, Hibs get it right though. Every time, I've heard posters saying X and Y shouldn't be released, that's been pretty much the last time that I ever heard of them.

[Ozyhibby]

We need to stop wasting money on 10yo. SFA should scrap all pro-youth until 15. I'm told a new draft system is coming in and "dev" players will be loaned out to lower division teams to aid development.

BTW it takes 25 mins to get to East Mains from Gorgie? Not sure why that would be the reason.

Not at 5o'clock at night it doesn't. One is Corstorphine, the other broughton.
Also most parents know when it comes to the logistics of organising multiple kids going to different clubs etc on the same night, every minute is precious.
I agree on the taking them at 10 though but that is the system we have and Hibs feel they need to be part of it.

[Beefster]

We just missed out on a couple of ten year olds because East mains is too far to travel. Nothing to do with development team but important none the less. We really need a base in edinburgh for the younger age groups.
The Yams got them btw.


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Some of us commute between Tranent and Edinburgh twice a day and taxi our kids to clubs/sports in Edinburgh several times a week.

[NAE NOOKIE]

We just missed out on a couple of ten year olds because East mains is too far to travel. Nothing to do with development team but important none the less. We really need a base in edinburgh for the younger age groups.
The Yams got them btw.


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Can the club not organise a way to transport the kids from Easter Road to East Mains ..... even a car pool or something like that. When my friends laddie was on Hibs books I was happy to drive him to training in Edinburgh on the days she couldn't and that was from Galashiels.

[tine0802]

He wasn't good enough so he was let go.

Perhaps in your opinion. Luckily for him others disagree. Sad indictment of the academy that of all the boys up for renewal not one was good enough to be retained.

Anyway, they all got a lucky escape to leave a sinking (rapidly) ship..

The rotting at the heart of once great club continues...

[Ozyhibby]

Can the club not organise a way to transport the kids from Easter Road to East Mains ..... even a car pool or something like that. When my friends laddie was on Hibs books I was happy to drive him to training in Edinburgh on the days she couldn't and that was from Galashiels.

Cheaper just to rent a couple of astro pitches from a school in edinburgh 2/3 nights a week, no? At that age the kids don't need all the extra stuff out at East mains.

[Sergio sledge]

Ok re-phrase that's - 6 teams, most of which were championship or above vying to sign him. I know his agent. I think that alone shows that mistakes are made in assessing young players. However, one mans meat and all that! if the gaffer doesn't fancy you, theres nothing you can do to stop them leaving for nothing, which in itself is a waste of development time and money.

Genuine question, how many of the players we have released age 18/19 recently have gone on to immediately make a career at a higher level than we are at? Lewis Horner is playing premiership football, but is a sub most weeks. Booth and Welsh are regulars for Partick, but they both had to drop down to lower leagues for a while to develop before being ready for the premiership. We can't afford to wait for players to get to 23/24 years old before being ready for the first team, if a player coming through the youth system isn't ready at 18/19 then we have to let them go and see if the next batch will be ready.

The whole youth system and scouting system was changed 2 years ago, so it's a bit early to be judging surely.

[Zitelli_07]

Wotherspoon, Stevenson and Hanlon were good youth products, they just never had the senior players around them for them to develop. Need to pick the young goalkeepers up though and develop them. Combe is a good coach and maybe needs to do more work with the young 'uns.

Stanton and Harris had to play under Butcher - 'nuff said. If that doesn't stunt your development, what will?

[tine0802]

Genuine question, how many of the players we have released age 18/19 recently have gone on to immediately make a career at a higher level than we are at? Lewis Horner is playing premiership football, but is a sub most weeks. Booth and Welsh are regulars for Partick, but they both had to drop down to lower leagues for a while to develop before being ready for the premiership. We can't afford to wait for players to get to 23/24 years old before being ready for the first team, if a player coming through the youth system isn't ready at 18/19 then we have to let them go and see if the next batch will be ready.

The whole youth system and scouting system was changed 2 years ago, so it's a bit early to be judging surely.

Probably very few,but I would imagine that is the same all over. Also, in order to assess, they need to be given a chance - which isn't happening either.

On the flip side, there are 2 lads who were released even before 20s as deemed not good enough. Penrice and Nesbit - both featuring reg for Partick!

Stubbs has stuck with experience over youth- merely suggesting this policy is re evaluated. As it clear that isn't working, on either front.

[Brightside]

Cheaper just to rent a couple of astro pitches from a school in edinburgh 2/3 nights a week, no? At that age the kids don't need all the extra stuff out at East mains.

I agree with this... until very recently the girls side of it was all out at Forresters. NO reason for 10yo ladies to be out at East mains...the claim is its all about trying to make them feel part of the club.

[Earl of Currie]

We need to stop wasting money on 10yo. SFA should scrap all pro-youth until 15. I'm told a new draft system is coming in and "dev" players will be loaned out to lower division teams to aid development.


Speaking to a couple of friends who boys play at Spartans / Hutchie Vale and the feeling from these clubs is that the development that Hibs are providing is more of a hinderance than a positive.
Have only their opinion to go on , but both state they would rather their sons went to other clubs even though them and their sons are all die hard Hibees.
Comments coming from both is that there is little focus on developing skills and more on promoting a 'direct' style of football.

Would be interesting to hear what others know and love to hear that my friends were wrong and the approach Hibs have will produce results, but am concerned at the lack of players that the youth section is producing

[JFK-1]

Development is the mainstay of Hamilton Accies and I doubt anyone would argue that it hasn't worked out for them though admittedly at a level lower of ambition than Hibs would like to be at but at the same time if they can make it work you would imagine a larger club could do the same thing in a bigger way.

What's the alternative? The only alternative is the transfer market and since very few clubs in Scotland can afford the inflated transfer fees of the modern game for any sort of quality it might be argued it's the only way to go for us all. Even if you go for a Bosman there is still the reality that if the target is of any decent quality someone else can step in and offer him more money.

[KWJ]

Being in the championship won't have helped although I do think we could have used a couple fresh faces from the youths around the squad. Scott Martin for one.

It's a lot harder to get promoted from the Championship than relegated from the Premiership unfortunately.

Hopefully not next season.

[Brightside]

Speaking to a couple of friends who boys play at Spartans / Hutchie Vale and the feeling from these clubs is that the development that Hibs are providing is more of a hinderance than a positive.
Have only their opinion to go on , but both state they would rather their sons went to other clubs even though them and their sons are all die hard Hibees.
Comments coming from both is that there is little focus on developing skills and more on promoting a 'direct' style of football.

Would be interesting to hear what others know and love to hear that my friends were wrong and the approach Hibs have will produce results, but am concerned at the lack of players that the youth section is producing

They are right.....ive watched it in action. Its very poor and i'd never have a young kid anywhere near Hibs. Another reason why we shouldn't bother doing it. Concentrate on working with local youth clubs, get agreements in place to monitor and let them stay there with a few to signing at 14/15 once these boys have matured a bit, playing 11 aside, and have had a chance to win a cup with their youth team. Every year they take dozens of players out of youth teams...and hardly any parents will ever say no as they are dazzled by the sight of their son wearing a Pro Top...its totally pointless. By the way - Hearts at that level are awful to watch also. Take an u10/11 team from Edinburgh through to Celtic and they will get totally hammered. No one outside of Celtic has the resources to run a Pro Youth Academy in Scotland.

[Sammy7nil]

100% this.

There's no money in Scottish football. The club that finishes 20th in the EPL next season will get £100m in TV cash.

Trying to tap into that transfer market is pretty much the best opportunity we have.

Lets see how much of that 100m clubs want to spend on Jason if it is less than 400k then what is the point? How many 20 plus goal scorers are we likely to develop year on year? The state we are in EVERY penny should be directed at the first team Short-term I hear you say damn right as we cant take 4 or 5 years in this league.

[Brightside]

Here is the info from Brentford. For me its the way forward for Hibs. All funds into elite players only.
http://mobile.brentfordfc.co.uk/news/article/brentford-academy-restructuring-11.05.16-3109002.aspx

[RIP]

We need to stop wasting money on 10yo. SFA should scrap all pro-youth until 15. I'm told a new draft system is coming in and "dev" players will be loaned out to lower division teams to aid development.

BTW it takes 25 mins to get to East Mains from Gorgie? Not sure why that would be the reason.

25 minutes from where? Kids over 11 are expected to make their way to training by bus. What's the bus service like?

My son had a trial and Bill Hendry was interested in having him back in a development squad. Crieff to Edinburgh by public transport -doable. Crieff to a field near Ormiston?

[hibs0666]

Is it time to scrap the development team given it has produced so few first team players in the last 5 years. These funds could then be invested in the first team.

Madness.

[Andy74]

They are right.....ive watched it in action. Its very poor and i'd never have a young kid anywhere near Hibs. Another reason why we shouldn't bother doing it. Concentrate on working with local youth clubs, get agreements in place to monitor and let them stay there with a few to signing at 14/15 once these boys have matured a bit, playing 11 aside, and have had a chance to win a cup with their youth team. Every year they take dozens of players out of youth teams...and hardly any parents will ever say no as they are dazzled by the sight of their son wearing a Pro Top...its totally pointless. By the way - Hearts at that level are awful to watch also. Take an u10/11 team from Edinburgh through to Celtic and they will get totally hammered. No one outside of Celtic has the resources to run a Pro Youth Academy in Scotland.

The end result we want though is players ready to be first team players.

I know lots of you have an interest in youth football in itself and have a view. Eddie May said at the start his methods wouldn't be popular. He had a brilliant record at bringing youngsters through at Falkirk.

Interesting that Hearts were mentioned as being poor at that level too. They seem to do well with the end product though.

[Brightside]

25 minutes from where? Kids over 11 are expected to make their way to training by bus. What's the bus service like?

My son had a trial and Bill Hendry was interested in having him back in a development squad. Crieff to Edinburgh by public transport -doable. Crieff to a field near Ormiston?

You might want to read what i wrote. I also wouldn't even think of sending an 11yo from Crieff to Hibs.