Tragedy for Hibs?

[MickeyEdwards]

I was a ST holder at ER for many years until the post Mowbray & Collins "cashing in" of the "Golden Generation" over a relatively short period of time. At the end of the Hamilton play off game at ER, I decided not to renew my ST until the product on the pitch consistently delivered quality football which won games.

I appreciate that the sale of these players funded structural assets for the club but their sale led to the football team steadily deteriorating until we were relegated.

Leanne Dempster has come in and is definitely making differences for the better and Alan Stubbs was given the task of restoring the football side of Hibs to the standard that Hibs fans like to watch.

i was fortunate to enjoy the best period of Turnbull's Tornados and know what it feels like to watch that exciting kind of football regularly even if it didn't really deliver the trophies that many Hibs fans at that time felty he football deserved.

Although not a ST holder, I attended a good number of home matches since that Hamilton game and, this season particularly, saw some really excellent football played by Hibs, most notably against Permier League opposition in the two cups. The Aberdeen and Dundee Utd games were particularly good.

However, the disappointing thing ultimately is that great football doesn't seem to be as successful as the "up and under" hoofball and 50 yard throw in type of football played by cheats and thugs, the latter not helped by the absolute incompetence of Scottish referees and linesmen, most noticeably evident over the two Falkirk matches!

i believe that Hibs has some great young players right now, but failure to get back to the PL this season could result in some of these guys moving on. That puts us back considerably and could result in us struggling to get out of the Championship for years.

These are the big issues for Leanne Dempster to address as it does look like Alan Stubbs might be intending to move down South and a new young competent and talented manager will have to be found, employed and positively incentivised to deliver the required quality of football and results, most probably on a reducing budget.


I hope that she gets supported in delivering such results and that my fears for the future of Hibs are unfounded.


in the meantime, I and most of my family will be at Hampden on Saturday with realistic expectations for the first time in a number of years of Hibs winning the Scottish Cup.

i hope that we can all fully support the Manager and players next week and celebrate with them should they realise their full potential next Saturday and best Rangers as we all know they are capable of doing!

GGTTH

[JimBHibees]

I was a ST holder at ER for many years until the post Mowbray & Collins "cashing in" of the "Golden Generation" over a relatively short period of time. At the end of the Hamilton play off game at ER, I decided not to renew my ST until the product on the pitch consistently delivered quality football which won games.

I appreciate that the sale of these players funded structural assets for the club but their sale led to the football team steadily deteriorating until we were relegated.

Leanne Dempster has come in and is definitely making differences for the better and Alan Stubbs was given the task of restoring the football side of Hibs to the standard that Hibs fans like to watch.

i was fortunate to enjoy the best period of Turnbull's Tornados and know what it feels like to watch that exciting kind of football regularly even if it didn't really deliver the trophies that many Hibs fans at that time felty he football deserved.

Although not a ST holder, I attended a good number of home matches since that Hamilton game and, this season particularly, saw some really excellent football played by Hibs, most notably against Permier League opposition in the two cups. The Aberdeen and Dundee Utd games were particularly good.

However, the disappointing thing ultimately is that great football doesn't seem to be as successful as the "up and under" hoofball and 50 yard throw in type of football played by cheats and thugs, the latter not helped by the absolute incompetence of Scottish referees and linesmen, most noticeably evident over the two Falkirk matches!

i believe that Hibs has some great young players right now, but failure to get back to the PL this season could result in some of these guys moving on. That puts us back considerably and could result in us struggling to get out of the Championship for years.

These are the big issues for Leanne Dempster to address as it does look like Alan Stubbs might be intending to move down South and a new young competent and talented manager will have to be found, employed and positively incentivised to deliver the required quality of football and results, most probably on a reducing budget.


I hope that she gets supported in delivering such results and that my fears for the future of Hibs are unfounded.


in the meantime, I and most of my family will be at Hampden on Saturday with realistic expectations for the first time in a number of years of Hibs winning the Scottish Cup.

i hope that we can all fully support the Manager and players next week and celebrate with them should they realise their full potential next Saturday and best Rangers as we all know they are capable of doing!

GGTTH

Great post a bit of perspective.

[Expecting Rain]

At last a sense of realism.

[Waxy]

Probably as fans we don't see that Stubbs, the players, staff, everyone at the club are just as gutted as ourselves.
Time to pull together.

[flash]

What a good read that is. Maybe next Saturday will finally be out day.

[Islington Hibs]

I was a ST holder at ER for many years until the post Mowbray & Collins "cashing in" of the "Golden Generation" over a relatively short period of time. At the end of the Hamilton play off game at ER, I decided not to renew my ST until the product on the pitch consistently delivered quality football which won games.

I appreciate that the sale of these players funded structural assets for the club but their sale led to the football team steadily deteriorating until we were relegated.

Leanne Dempster has come in and is definitely making differences for the better and Alan Stubbs was given the task of restoring the football side of Hibs to the standard that Hibs fans like to watch.

i was fortunate to enjoy the best period of Turnbull's Tornados and know what it feels like to watch that exciting kind of football regularly even if it didn't really deliver the trophies that many Hibs fans at that time felty he football deserved.

Although not a ST holder, I attended a good number of home matches since that Hamilton game and, this season particularly, saw some really excellent football played by Hibs, most notably against Permier League opposition in the two cups. The Aberdeen and Dundee Utd games were particularly good.

However, the disappointing thing ultimately is that great football doesn't seem to be as successful as the "up and under" hoofball and 50 yard throw in type of football played by cheats and thugs, the latter not helped by the absolute incompetence of Scottish referees and linesmen, most noticeably evident over the two Falkirk matches!

i believe that Hibs has some great young players right now, but failure to get back to the PL this season could result in some of these guys moving on. That puts us back considerably and could result in us struggling to get out of the Championship for years.

These are the big issues for Leanne Dempster to address as it does look like Alan Stubbs might be intending to move down South and a new young competent and talented manager will have to be found, employed and positively incentivised to deliver the required quality of football and results, most probably on a reducing budget.


I hope that she gets supported in delivering such results and that my fears for the future of Hibs are unfounded.


in the meantime, I and most of my family will be at Hampden on Saturday with realistic expectations for the first time in a number of years of Hibs winning the Scottish Cup.

i hope that we can all fully support the Manager and players next week and celebrate with them should they realise their full potential next Saturday and best Rangers as we all know they are capable of doing!

GGTTH

excellent post and a good measured perspective on what has been a very difficult week.

I am probably in a minority but I think both Dempster and Stubbs staying is pretty critical although I fully expect Stubbs to get an offer elsewhere. I think there really is an attempt to play good passing football. Perhaps lacks a cutting edge at times but this is not a bad team - witness the results against SPFL opo- and clearly a better team than yesterdays winners.

Whether we can keep our best players or not I don't know but if we have to start from scratch again with several key players leaving and a new manager it will make the task of getting out this retched league even harder in my view. I for one believe that we have excellent leadership and failure to go up is not their fault.

[Sammy7nil]

excellent post and a good measured perspective on what has been a very difficult week.

I am probably in a minority but I think both Dempster and Stubbs staying is pretty critical although I fully expect Stubbs to get an offer elsewhere. I think there really is an attempt to play good passing football. Perhaps lacks a cutting edge at times but this is not a bad team - witness the results against SPFL opo- and clearly a better team than yesterdays winners.

Whether we can keep our best players or not I don't know but if we have to start from scratch again with several key players leaving and a new manager it will make the task of getting out this retched league even harder in my view. I for one believe that we have excellent leadership and failure to go up is not their fault.

Not having a go just curious if we have excellent leadership and they are not to blame who should be held to account for the absolute shambles our club is in? Sorry but finishing third in a two horse race just wont do.

[hibsbollah]

Excellent OP, well done.

[JFK-1]

I was a ST holder at ER for many years until the post Mowbray & Collins "cashing in" of the "Golden Generation" over a relatively short period of time. At the end of the Hamilton play off game at ER, I decided not to renew my ST until the product on the pitch consistently delivered quality football which won games.

I appreciate that the sale of these players funded structural assets for the club but their sale led to the football team steadily deteriorating until we were relegated.

Leanne Dempster has come in and is definitely making differences for the better and Alan Stubbs was given the task of restoring the football side of Hibs to the standard that Hibs fans like to watch.

i was fortunate to enjoy the best period of Turnbull's Tornados and know what it feels like to watch that exciting kind of football regularly even if it didn't really deliver the trophies that many Hibs fans at that time felty he football deserved.

Although not a ST holder, I attended a good number of home matches since that Hamilton game and, this season particularly, saw some really excellent football played by Hibs, most notably against Permier League opposition in the two cups. The Aberdeen and Dundee Utd games were particularly good.

However, the disappointing thing ultimately is that great football doesn't seem to be as successful as the "up and under" hoofball and 50 yard throw in type of football played by cheats and thugs, the latter not helped by the absolute incompetence of Scottish referees and linesmen, most noticeably evident over the two Falkirk matches!

i believe that Hibs has some great young players right now, but failure to get back to the PL this season could result in some of these guys moving on. That puts us back considerably and could result in us struggling to get out of the Championship for years.

These are the big issues for Leanne Dempster to address as it does look like Alan Stubbs might be intending to move down South and a new young competent and talented manager will have to be found, employed and positively incentivised to deliver the required quality of football and results, most probably on a reducing budget.


I hope that she gets supported in delivering such results and that my fears for the future of Hibs are unfounded.


in the meantime, I and most of my family will be at Hampden on Saturday with realistic expectations for the first time in a number of years of Hibs winning the Scottish Cup.

i hope that we can all fully support the Manager and players next week and celebrate with them should they realise their full potential next Saturday and best Rangers as we all know they are capable of doing!

GGTTH

I'm a visiting Rangers fan and you have the right attitude. It is a good team and Stubbs is the right man for the managers position at this time. It makes no sense to drive him out and basically start all over again which is as likely as anything else to set the club back years.

Things aren't as grim as many around here would seem to paint it, Hibs got unlucky at some bad times and that's just the breaks. But the breaks can and will go the other way too. You all need to get past this and continue backing the team.

As for next week yes Hibs are capable of winning but it goes without saying I don't think they will. :wink:

[Sammy7nil]

I'm a visiting Rangers fan and you have the right attitude. It is a good team and Stubbs is the right man for the managers position at this time. It makes no sense to drive him out and basically start all over again which is as likely as anything else to set the club back years.

Things aren't as grim as many around here would seem to paint it, Hibs got unlucky at some bad times and that's just the breaks. But the breaks can and will go the other way too. You all need to get past this and continue backing the team.

As for next week yes Hibs are capable of winning but it goes without saying I don't think they will. :wink:

Nothing really wrong we have just had some bad breaks over the past 30 odd years mind you, we have had a couple of lucky breaks in that time. :rolleyes:

[Steve20]

Why has Dempter made differences for the better? What results on the pitch am I missing? Because that's the only thing that matters.

[MickeyEdwards]

Great post a bit of perspective.

An important thing which I ommited to say in my initial post was that when we had the losing run of league games earlier this year, we were missing several important players most notably Hanlon, McGeoch and Fyvie who subsequently returned to the side and helped galvanise the team to push to a play off place and then on to meet Falkirk in the play off semi final.

People need to remember this and that we could have been top of the league outright had medium term absence injuries to these key players not happened when they did.

That is the nature of football anywhere in the World.

Things happen unexpectedly to participants in physically demanding sports like football and we need to accept that and live with that.

[Forza Fred]

The difference between success and failure can be down to very fine margins, a hand ball not given here, a missed penalty or two there?

Hopefully Stubb's stays on.....the thought of starting from scratch leaves me empty.

[Pete]

Nice, mature OP and some good follow ups.

I'm glad a gradual sense of perspective is appearing amongst the understandably emotional posts of late.

[Pete]

The difference between success and failure can be down to very fine margins, a hand ball not given here, a missed penalty or two there?

Hopefully Stubb's stays on.....the thought of starting from scratch leaves me empty.

:agree:

Or even a long throw in or the goalies fingernails (I still can't digest Cummings swaggering on, immediately hitting that swerver and it not going in)

Also coming round to this way of thinking regarding Stubbs. He's not irreplaceable but a lot of the players are here because of his methods and personality. I don't fancy this starting again stuff either to be honest.

[killie-hibby]

The difference between success and failure can be down to very fine margins, a hand ball not given here, a missed penalty or two there?

Hopefully Stubb's stays on.....the thought of starting from scratch leaves me empty.


Yes, allow Stubbs the remaining year of his contract. I believe we need managerial stability rather than another change. Hopefully the "fine margins" are reversed to our advantage. Despite failing in our promotion bid I have enjoyed watching Stubbs team more than those of Hughes,Calderwood and Butcher.
Starting from scratch is a bigger gamble than retaining Stubbs.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

The difference between success and failure can be down to very fine margins, a hand ball not given here, a missed penalty or two there?

Hopefully Stubb's stays on.....the thought of starting from scratch leaves me empty.

I think you can use that analogy for the last two games against Falkirk because it fits as an adequate summary but it is more than stretching it try and apply it to the last two seasons in total.

[chrisski33]

good post but not sure hibs should go for a young manager but think we need someone who has good experience and knowledge of how to get us promoted.

[Lago]

I am quite sure Stubbs is weighing up his opitions, stay for a further year and hope for ptomotion coupled to a successful Scottish Cup win, where his cv will look outstanding, or fail on Saturday and worry that another failure to achieve promktion will result him being tagged as a manager who is not even capable in Scotlands 2nd tier, his cv will then look outstandingly poor. Choices ?

[Ronniekirk]

If the right club comes in for him he will move on its as simple as that He is bound to get offers given what he has done to turn the club around
He has potential and ii honestly think he would fancy a third year in the Championship , as most of us don't want to be watching championship football
We don't have options but i think he will


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hibby6270]

Not having a go just curious if we have excellent leadership and they are not to blame who should be held to account for the absolute shambles our club is in? Sorry but finishing third in a two horse race just wont do.

You're 100% correct with your last sentence and not as accurate about the club being in a shambles (it's much less than it was 2 years ago) - BUT - this is Hibs we are talking about. The OP has summed up what being a Hibs supporter is all about. I've been saying exactly the same on here for the last couple if years, maybe not as eloquently, but most posters on the forum still have this great sense of optimism on everything Hibs do should have a positive outcome.

We'd obviously love that to be the case but the longer you are a Hibby (54 years for me), you just learn to accept that more often than not it just doesn't go for Hibs. When it does, there's nothing more special. But when it doesn't, we all feel the pain we are going through this weekend after the events of Friday.

In a twisted perverse sort of way, we have this coming weekend to look forward to after the let down of Friday and we'd have to embrace that in a positive way. Only problem is, we are Hibs, and some how in our mind we just know the outcome against the Huns on Saturday will be laced with some oddity that will either be in our favour or theirs. What's the betting it's the latter but as ever, we live in hope it's the former.

GGTTH :greengrin:thumbsup::flag:

[jacomo]

Not having a go just curious if we have excellent leadership and they are not to blame who should be held to account for the absolute shambles our club is in? Sorry but finishing third in a two horse race just wont do.

We are not 'an absolute shambles'.

We were two years ago, but the club has come a long way since then. We now have a fit, committed squad of players, which is more than we had for many years.

Bad luck, injuries, one or two transfer mistakes, naive tactics and perhaps a lack of humility from our management team at times has undone us. There are, without question, things that need addressing this summer.

But a shambles? Nope.

[Islington Hibs]

Not having a go just curious if we have excellent leadership and they are not to blame who should be held to account for the absolute shambles our club is in? Sorry but finishing third in a two horse race just wont do.

I agree 3rd is very disappointing indeed and slightly at a loss to explain it. The Stubbs inherited a total mess plus relegation at the worst time having to get ahead of Hearts and Rangers. That was never going to be easy. I would say that we have the makings of a genuinely good team and outside Cetlic and perhaps Aberdeen there is not much to pick between the rest and the of the Championship.

I think Stubbs has found/ bought good players, there is a genuine attempt to play football, I think he has integrity and seems up-front. I would agree we have lacked a cutting direct edge and lack pace but this is not a bad side who have generally beaten Premier opposition on the 5 or 6 times times we have played them. I also think he has been very unlucky and that was certainly the case against Falkirk. Our cup record is incredible (and that may just keep us financially solvent next year- win or lose on Saturday). I think Dempster has been a breath of fresh air and has brought professionalism, re-engagement with support and what seems t be genuine hard work.

I doubt Stubbs will be our manager next season- his family is based down south and if he gets an offer I would guess he is off (I would very much doubt he would be fired though). That said failure to get us up next season would be disastrous and totally unacceptable regardless of circumstance.

So who to hold to account- the previous board, who were not all bad (infrastructure etc) but seemed to have the man management skills of an a zombie given the merigo round of managers and short term player fixes. Over 100 signings in was in 6 years? I genuinely feel sorry for Stubs and don't blame him.

[Libby Hibby]

It's disappointing the way our season ended but I don't think it's a tragedy...serious question, were we ready to go up? It's not like we dominated every games, scored loads of goals and conceded so few. If truth be told, we were average in lots of games, struggled to beat teams by the odd goal and our general play was pedestrian.

Until we start playing and getting results like Hearts and Rangers did then I don't think we will get out of this league.

A wise man once said 'once we get the small things right, the big things will take care of themselves'

[Captain Trips]

It's disappointing the way our season ended but I don't think it's a tragedy...serious question, were we ready to go up? It's not like we dominated every games, scored loads of goals and conceded so few. If truth be told, we were average in lots of games, struggled to beat teams by the odd goal and our general play was pedestrian.

Until we start playing and getting results like Hearts and Rangers did then I don't think we will get out of this league.

A wise man once said 'once we get the small things right, the big things will take care of themselves'

Thats the point why were not ready then? Should have been so if not down to all the folk at the club then. If we were not ready to go up after a 2nd season then that really is a joke is it not?

[Sammy7nil]

We are not 'an absolute shambles'.

We were two years ago, but the club has come a long way since then. We now have a fit, committed squad of players, which is more than we had for many years.

Bad luck, injuries, one or two transfer mistakes, naive tactics and perhaps a lack of humility from our management team at times has undone us. There are, without question, things that need addressing this summer.

But a shambles? Nope.

We are making history a third year in the lower divison finishing third in a two horse race, finishing over twenty points behind Heart last season. Failing to beat Falkirk in the play offs failing to beat them at all at ER. Losing to part time teams. Crowds dropping and if we lose next week they will plunge further with many never to attend ER regularly again.

If that is not a shambles then I am mistaken give me a shout when it reaches shambolic in your opinion.

[Libby Hibby]

Thats the point why were not ready then? Should have been so if not down to all the folk at the club then. If we were not ready to go up after a 2nd season then that really is a joke is it not?

Yes it is but perhaps we underestimated the task in hand? I would've loved to have gone up 2nd time of asking but we're not ready to go up yet.

Until over all performances improve, then we won't go up.
Unless we can grind out results when we need to, then we won't go up.
Until we start scoring more and conceding less, we won't go up.

The above are pretty obvious but these are the basics required to achieve promotion.

Why we were not ready, I cant answer, we should've been but if Stubbs was leaving regardless of promotion or failure and it's been known to the board for a while, then you would like to think that a successor is close behind on his appointment and it should made clear, on no uncertain terms that promotion, automatically, is what we are down to achieve next season.

Nothing Else.

[Sammy7nil]

Yes it is but perhaps we underestimated the task in hand? I would've loved to have gone up 2nd time of asking but we're not ready to go up yet.

Until over all performances improve, then we won't go up.
Unless we can grind out results when we need to, then we won't go up.
Until we start scoring more and conceding less, we won't go up.

The above are pretty obvious but these are the basics required to achieve promotion.

Why we were not ready, I cant answer, we should've been but if Stubbs was leaving regardless of promotion or failure and it's been known to the board for a while, then you would like to think that a successor is close behind on his appointment and it should made clear, on no uncertain terms that promotion, automatically, is what we are down to achieve next season.

Nothing Else.

Mean time Falkirk are ready?

[Libby Hibby]

Mean time Falkirk are ready?

Looks like they were, well at least make the play off final

[Captain Trips]

Look there are no excuses regardless of being ready or whatever. Hibernian should have taken the title race to the wire and finished 2nd. I could accept a difficult game and the danger of Kilmarnock. To not even get to that stage for me is totally unacceptable and Stubbs is to blame.

Why we are in tbis league has nothing to do with Stubbs, he had the tools to get us out and totally failed. It is on him.

[Libby Hibby]

Look there are no excuses regardless of being ready or whatever. Hibernian should have taken the title race to the wire and finished 2nd. I could accept a difficult game and the danger of Kilmarnock. To not even get to that stage for me is totally unacceptable and Stubbs is to blame.

Why we are in tbis league has nothing to do with Stubbs, he had the tools to get us out and totally failed. It is on him.

100% agree

[AndyM_1875]

Look there are no excuses regardless of being ready or whatever. Hibernian should have taken the title race to the wire and finished 2nd. I could accept a difficult game and the danger of Kilmarnock. To not even get to that stage for me is totally unacceptable and Stubbs is to blame.

Why we are in tbis league has nothing to do with Stubbs, he had the tools to get us out and totally failed. It is on him.

Correct.

I have no expectation that Stubbs will stay for another year. He'll be off to Bolton or similar I would expect. So we will need an experienced manager, not a novice.
We are where we are and next season we will be the biggest club with the biggest budget in the Championship. There will be no Rangers or Hearts there, only a financially crippled Dundee United and probably a similarly traumatised Kilmarnock.

The league takes precedence over everything. I'd play development players in the League Cup tbh. We have the experience of this league and we need to get off to a flyer of a start otherwise it will be another stumbling campaign. Next season we have no excuses and it will fitting if we swap places with Falkirk in May 2017.

[Iggy Pope]

Correct.

I have no expectation that Stubbs will stay for another year. He'll be off to Bolton or similar I would expect. So we will need an experienced manager, not a novice.
We are where we are and next season we will be the biggest club with the biggest budget in the Championship. There will be no Rangers or Hearts there, only a financially crippled Dundee United and probably a similarly traumatised Kilmarnock.

The league takes precedence over everything. I'd play development players in the League Cup tbh. We have the experience of this league and we need to get off to a flyer of a start otherwise it will be another stumbling campaign. Next season we have no excuses and it will fitting if we swap places with Falkirk in May 2017.

Has there been much talk coming out of Easter Road about budget Andy? I'm curious about this on a number of levels.