"not deliberate."

[The_Sauz]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36271165



Falkirk first team coach James McDonaugh says David McCracken remains adamant his handball in the Premiership play-off semi-final first leg against Hibernian was not deliberate.
Referee Alan Muir did not award a penalty when McCracken handled in the box with the Bairns trailing 2-1, the match eventually ending 2-2. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36238971)
"He actually felt he didn't deliberately mean it, no matter what it looks like," McDonaugh said.
"So you take his word for it."
Hibs boss Alan Stubbs described the failure to award a penalty as a"catastrophic mistake" (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36263263) which kept Falkirk in the game.
"He says he just kind of turned to defend and sort of fell and put his hands out because he was falling," McDonaugh continued.
"It has clearly hit his hand but if you look at a still of it, it looks worse than in full motion.
"A lot of people are maybe not sure that the rule is if in the referee's opinion it is a deliberate handball. If his opinion is that it isn't then he doesn't give it."
http://www.hibs.net/image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7

Falkirk head coach James McDonaugh says he has no split loyalties despite a previous spell at HibsMcDonaugh insists both family and career ties with Hibs have been shelved during their play-off contest.
He grew up as a supporter of the Leith side and worked as head of academy coaching with the Easter Road club for seven years before moving to the Bairns in 2014.
"It's strange to be applauding the fans behind the goal as opposed to the ones at the other three sides," he said.
"Something kicks in when the first whistle goes and you want to disappoint the rest of your family by telling them that Hibs have been beaten.
"My dad is 100% behind me and he wants us to beat Hibs. My granddad's a wee bit different; he's 100% behind me but 100% wanting Hibs to win. He's 88 and sometimes he'll ask me if I still like Hibs!
"Then I've got my wee boy, who's six and he's the most confused person in the family just now. He doesn't know whether he's supporting Hibs or Falkirk.
"But for me I know 100% where my loyalty lies and that's here at Falkirk."



:faf:

[HibsMax]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36271165



Falkirk first team coach James McDonaugh says David McCracken remains adamant his handball in the Premiership play-off semi-final first leg against Hibernian was not deliberate.
Referee Alan Muir did not award a penalty when McCracken handled in the box with the Bairns trailing 2-1, the match eventually ending 2-2. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36238971)
"He actually felt he didn't deliberately mean it, no matter what it looks like," McDonaugh said.
"So you take his word for it."
Hibs boss Alan Stubbs described the failure to award a penalty as a"catastrophic mistake" (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36263263) which kept Falkirk in the game.
"He says he just kind of turned to defend and sort of fell and put his hands out because he was falling," McDonaugh continued.
"It has clearly hit his hand but if you look at a still of it, it looks worse than in full motion.
"A lot of people are maybe not sure that the rule is if in the referee's opinion it is a deliberate handball. If his opinion is that it isn't then he doesn't give it."
http://www.hibs.net/image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7

Falkirk head coach James McDonaugh says he has no split loyalties despite a previous spell at HibsMcDonaugh insists both family and career ties with Hibs have been shelved during their play-off contest.
He grew up as a supporter of the Leith side and worked as head of academy coaching with the Easter Road club for seven years before moving to the Bairns in 2014.
"It's strange to be applauding the fans behind the goal as opposed to the ones at the other three sides," he said.
"Something kicks in when the first whistle goes and you want to disappoint the rest of your family by telling them that Hibs have been beaten.
"My dad is 100% behind me and he wants us to beat Hibs. My granddad's a wee bit different; he's 100% behind me but 100% wanting Hibs to win. He's 88 and sometimes he'll ask me if I still like Hibs!
"Then I've got my wee boy, who's six and he's the most confused person in the family just now. He doesn't know whether he's supporting Hibs or Falkirk.
"But for me I know 100% where my loyalty lies and that's here at Falkirk."



:faf:
It actually looks worse in full motion because you clearly see him handle the ball twice and the second time you see him pull the ball towards his body. Even if he didn't mean to touch the ball the first time, or even the second, pulling the ball is definitely a deliberate act.

[GreenLake]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36271165



Falkirk first team coach James McDonaugh says David McCracken remains adamant his handball in the Premiership play-off semi-final first leg against Hibernian was not deliberate.
Referee Alan Muir did not award a penalty when McCracken handled in the box with the Bairns trailing 2-1, the match eventually ending 2-2. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36238971)
"He actually felt he didn't deliberately mean it, no matter what it looks like," McDonaugh said.
"So you take his word for it."
Hibs boss Alan Stubbs described the failure to award a penalty as a"catastrophic mistake" (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36263263) which kept Falkirk in the game.
"He says he just kind of turned to defend and sort of fell and put his hands out because he was falling," McDonaugh continued.
"It has clearly hit his hand but if you look at a still of it, it looks worse than in full motion.
"A lot of people are maybe not sure that the rule is if in the referee's opinion it is a deliberate handball. If his opinion is that it isn't then he doesn't give it."
http://www.hibs.net/image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7

Falkirk head coach James McDonaugh says he has no split loyalties despite a previous spell at HibsMcDonaugh insists both family and career ties with Hibs have been shelved during their play-off contest.
He grew up as a supporter of the Leith side and worked as head of academy coaching with the Easter Road club for seven years before moving to the Bairns in 2014.
"It's strange to be applauding the fans behind the goal as opposed to the ones at the other three sides," he said.
"Something kicks in when the first whistle goes and you want to disappoint the rest of your family by telling them that Hibs have been beaten.
"My dad is 100% behind me and he wants us to beat Hibs. My granddad's a wee bit different; he's 100% behind me but 100% wanting Hibs to win. He's 88 and sometimes he'll ask me if I still like Hibs!
"Then I've got my wee boy, who's six and he's the most confused person in the family just now. He doesn't know whether he's supporting Hibs or Falkirk.
"But for me I know 100% where my loyalty lies and that's here at Falkirk."



:faf:

If that BBC report had been about a Hibs hand ball there would have been accompanied by photos showing the hand to ball evidence. The photo in that report shows nothing.

[givescotlandfreedom]

'you have to take his word for it'

Considering the team and bench is ridden with anti-football hammer throwing cheating fuds I don't think I'll bother.

[The_Sauz]

If that BBC report had been about a Hibs hand ball there would have been accompanied by photos showing the hand to ball evidence. The photo in that report shows nothing.
To be fair to the reporter, I think they will show you it, once the highlights are up :agree:

[McD]

The second time he handles it, he stops it rolling towards McGinn (don't think it would have got to McGinn, but definitely in his direction), then rolls it forward for himself, away from McGinn, and then gets up and clears it....all with the ref looking directly at the situation.

[emerald green]

If McCraken says that wasn't deliberate hand ball, I simply don't believe him. :fibber:

[The_Sauz]

No doubt the player who tripped Hendo right after it, was just stretching his hamstring when Hendo ran in front of him :rolleyes:

[neil7908]

'you have to take his word for it'

Considering the team and bench is ridden with anti-football hammer throwing cheating fuds I don't think I'll bother.

I love that bit. I haven't read the football rule book but confident "I didn't mean to, going just take my word for it aye?" Isn't mentioned anywhere

[Jack Hackett]

Regardless of whether it was deliberate or not, the fact that he handled the ball and then manipulated it to his advantage makes it a clear penalty.

[OsloHibs]

I'd laugh if I wasn't still so angry. Shameful decision. We were cheated.

[jdships]

Did any of us really expect McCraken, or anyone connected with Falkirk FC, to say " YES IT WAS DELIBERATE"?
:rolleyes:

[emerald green]

Did any of us really expect McCraken, or anyone connected with Falkirk FC, to say " YES IT WAS DELIBERATE"?
:rolleyes:

Of course not. But why come out with a pack of lies?

[Jack Hackett]

Of course not. But why come out with a pack of lies?

Because that's how you get people to believe you. Read a newspaper or watch the news for other examples :greengrin

[Nicho87]

Was at the gym and it came on the news and shouted out total con, fair to say i got a few looks. Not just cause i was eating a chippy while on the treadmill

[emerald green]

Because that's how you get people to believe you. Read a newspaper or watch the news for other examples :greengrin

Aye, but only if you are daft enough.

[Sudds_1]

Was at the gym and it came on the news and shouted out total con, fair to say i got a few looks. Not just cause i was eating a chippy while on the treadmill

Nowt wrong wi that! Alf Tupper won a gold medal doing the same thing!.....

....hope you had sauce on them for the protein :-)

[Jack Hackett]

Aye, but only if you are daft enough.

Sadly, there's plenty around

[Libby Hibby]

McCracken feels that Tony Blair is going to come out smelling of roses once the Chilcot Report is released.

So you take his word for it

[Libby Hibby]

McCracken insists that Rangers are the same club.

So you just take his word for it.

[green day]

McDonough is bitter, eh

Shame, as when I spoke to him when he was at the academy he came across as a good hibby.

[staunchhibby]

We should take the sfa to court if that diabolical decision last night consigns us to another season in this division for lost revenue due to the incompetency of the officials

[Eyrie]

McCracken insists that Houston is a really nice guy.

So you just take his word for it.

[CRAZYHIBBY]

That could end being the refereeing blunder that resigns us to the championship for another season

[muzzando]

McDonough is bitter, eh

Shame, as when I spoke to him when he was at the academy he came across as a good hibby.
Exactly what I thought, that wee spiel at the end of the article was him trying to make out that he wasn't bothered but it did the opposite

[Holmesdale Hibs]

'you have to take his word for it'

Considering the team and bench is ridden with anti-football hammer throwing cheating fuds I don't think I'll bother.

Haha, sums up my thoughts as well.

[The Green Goblin]

McCracken insists there was no puff of smoke from the grassy knoll. So you have to take his word for it.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Aye, and if I kicked him square in the nuts in Doc Martins then said it wasn't deliberate, he'd believe that too, I suppose.

[The Green Goblin]

McCracken insists that his granny had baws and therefore must have been his grandad. So you have to take his word for it.

[Libby Hibby]

McCracken believes that Hearts owe the debt to themselves.

So you just have to take his word for it.

[Sir David Gray]

David McCracken says the handball wasn't deliberate.

I say he's lying.

You'll just have to take my word for it.

[monktonharp]

I say that Trig is making a mountain out of a molehill, just take my word.

[Captain Trips]

McCracken + Muir + Houston + Mcdonaugh + Lovell + Mcall + Craigen = Bawbags.

[monktonharp]

McCracken + Muir + Houston + Mcdonaugh + Lovell + Mcall + Craigen = Bawbags.while you mention Mc Call, I heard that he was on the "panel" last night, and said...Initially I thought it was definitely a penalty, but after the replays and the more I think of it, It was not a penalty. what f/kin planet is he really from, if those were his comments?!!!!!

[Captain Trips]

while you mention Mc Call, I heard that he was on the "panel" last night, and said...Initially I thought it was definitely a penalty, but after the replays and the more I think of it, It was not a penalty. what f/kin planet is he really from, if those were his comments?!!!!!

I think the pundits after the match were paying homage to one flew over the cuckoos nest.

[Captain Trips]

The same pundits were shown "hand of god" goal from Mexico 86 and thought it a terrific header and were confused at the "hand of god" title.

[GreenLake]

Phil is a liar

[Jim44]

McCracken + Muir + Houston + Mcdonaugh + Lovell + Mcall + Craigen = Bawbags.


while you mention Mc Call, I heard that he was on the "panel" last night, and said...Initially I thought it was definitely a penalty, but after the replays and the more I think of it, It was not a penalty. what f/kin planet is he really from, if those were his comments?!!!!!

I am furious about the referee's intentional miscarriage of justice in the first place. I am even more furious that, because the s***bags mentioned above have pontificated and therefore it was 'officially' not a penalty, aided and abetted by some on here who support the notion that it was a refereeing mistake, those of us who are aggrieved, are some kind of deluded idiots.

[basehibby]

Regardless of whether it was deliberate or not, the fact that he handled the ball and then manipulated it to his advantage makes it a clear penalty.

:agree: How often is a handball actually a premeditated act? It's usually an impulsive act in the spur of the moment.

First touch would not have been deliberate being in the challenge - second time though McCracken actually moved his hand toward the ball and controlled it! If he'd been trying to pull his hand away it would be different but that was absolutely as stone wall as the Great Wall of China!

[SeanWilson]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36271165



Falkirk first team coach James McDonaugh says David McCracken remains adamant his handball in the Premiership play-off semi-final first leg against Hibernian was not deliberate.
Referee Alan Muir did not award a penalty when McCracken handled in the box with the Bairns trailing 2-1, the match eventually ending 2-2. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36238971)
"He actually felt he didn't deliberately mean it, no matter what it looks like," McDonaugh said.
"So you take his word for it."
Hibs boss Alan Stubbs described the failure to award a penalty as a"catastrophic mistake" (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36263263) which kept Falkirk in the game.
"He says he just kind of turned to defend and sort of fell and put his hands out because he was falling," McDonaugh continued.
"It has clearly hit his hand but if you look at a still of it, it looks worse than in full motion.
"A lot of people are maybe not sure that the rule is if in the referee's opinion it is a deliberate handball. If his opinion is that it isn't then he doesn't give it."
http://www.hibs.net/image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7

Falkirk head coach James McDonaugh says he has no split loyalties despite a previous spell at HibsMcDonaugh insists both family and career ties with Hibs have been shelved during their play-off contest.
He grew up as a supporter of the Leith side and worked as head of academy coaching with the Easter Road club for seven years before moving to the Bairns in 2014.
"It's strange to be applauding the fans behind the goal as opposed to the ones at the other three sides," he said.
"Something kicks in when the first whistle goes and you want to disappoint the rest of your family by telling them that Hibs have been beaten.
"My dad is 100% behind me and he wants us to beat Hibs. My granddad's a wee bit different; he's 100% behind me but 100% wanting Hibs to win. He's 88 and sometimes he'll ask me if I still like Hibs!
"Then I've got my wee boy, who's six and he's the most confused person in the family just now. He doesn't know whether he's supporting Hibs or Falkirk.
"But for me I know 100% where my loyalty lies and that's here at Falkirk."



:faf:
beggars belief Sauz!! :rolleyes:

[Nicho87]

I dont no what we'll do if that decision costs us. Radio scotland just laughed it off after the match. Its so obvious if that was celtic a public enquiry would be taken out l.

[dangermouse]

That could end being the refereeing blunder that resigns us to the championship for another season

Nothing to do with the fact we couldn't beat part time teams thus amass enough points to go up as champions like our manky neighbours did last season. Yeah, let's blame the officials for our inability to get promoted.

It was a handball, it wasn't given, lets get over it and do them on Friday. I'm particularly looking forward to Mr Tomato heid exploding with pure seethe at the final whistle.

[rcarter1]

Regardless of whether it was deliberate or not, the fact that he handled the ball and then manipulated it to his advantage makes it a clear penalty.

Thats my understanding of it? I get frustrated when pundits and other 'speakers' of the game debate decisions like this on the basis of whether it was deliberate or not. Probably 90% of hand ball penalties are not deliberate. Out of interest If it was clearly deliberate would that constitute a penalty and a straight red - or has intent got nothing at all to do with these decisions?

[SquashedFrogg]

McDonough is bitter, eh

Shame, as when I spoke to him when he was at the academy he came across as a good hibby.

He is a good Hibby. Proper Hibby at that. Used to go week in week out on the same bus as me back in the day. I guess he's got to be professional and take the side of those paying his mortgage.

[Libby Hibby]

He is a good Hibby. Proper Hibby at that. Used to go week in week out on the same bus as me back in the day. I guess he's got to be professional and take the side of those paying his mortgage.

What??? Like Billy Brown did in the 2013 cup final?

[xyz23jc]

What??? Like Billy Brown did in the 2013 cup final?

That's what happens when you've "been places n dun 'hings!" :greengrin

[green day]

He is a good Hibby. Proper Hibby at that. Used to go week in week out on the same bus as me back in the day. I guess he's got to be professional and take the side of those paying his mortgage.

I know he is. However, there is "being professional" and there is being a Houston.

He's been too close to Houston for my liking.

[lyonhibs]

I am furious about the referee's intentional miscarriage of justice in the first place. I am even more furious that, because the s***bags mentioned above have pontificated and therefore it was 'officially' not a penalty, aided and abetted by some on here who support the notion that it was a refereeing mistake, those of us who are aggrieved, are some kind of deluded idiots.

No one died or wrongly went to jail FFS.

And ****bags?? Really?? For having a differing opinion to your own?? Sheesh.

FWIW, it's a stick on penalty all day and a horrendous decision not to give it. I'm not putting on the tin foil hat or making comparisons with The Guildford 4 just yet though.

[21.05.2016]

Did any of us really expect McCraken, or anyone connected with Falkirk FC, to say " YES IT WAS DELIBERATE"?
:rolleyes:

Of course not but don't embarrass yourself and come out with such bull****. Have a bit of dignity and shut up and thank your lucky stars you managed to somehow get away with murder.

[theonlywayisup]

The handball rule is a joke. Do you recall when Dylan conceded a free kick at Ibrox before they scored from it? His arm was behind his back and moving away from the ball yet the ref gives a free kick.

I think they just make it up.

[Newcastlehibby]

Thats my understanding of it? I get frustrated when pundits and other 'speakers' of the game debate decisions like this on the basis of whether it was deliberate or not. Probably 90% of hand ball penalties are not deliberate. Out of interest If it was clearly deliberate would that constitute a penalty and a straight red - or has intent got nothing at all to do with these decisions?

They do that because the rules say 'deliberate handball'.

[hibs69]

That's what happens when you've "been places n dun 'hings!" :greengrin

LOL!! You can't post this without posting the legendary video to go with it.

Bellend Houston will be instructing his cheats to show more handball as there is every chance, it'll be missed by the ref. Who is the ref by the way......., oh aye, him......., yip, it'll be missed.

[rcarter1]

They do that because the rules say 'deliberate handball'.

Now I am confused because a few years back a friend of mine explained that a handball didn't need to be deliberate to draw a penalty kick. Like a foul. Just reading now that around 2013, in england anyway, referees were being encouraged to interpret the players intent when giving a penalty - i.e. don't give a penalty if the player doesn't 'seem' to have meant it… :confused:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2284201/GRAHAM-POLL--The-Official-Line-The-new-handball-rule-explained-Newcastle-got-lucky-Fox-penalty.html

Also looked up the scottish rules of the game under fouls etc
http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_football.cfm?page=3605

A direct free kick is also awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following three offences:
• holds an opponent
• spits at an opponent
• handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his own penalty area)

If this is true, most of the penalties given for handball are probably harsh, given most of them involve flailing arms and balls moving at 100mph???

Having said all of that the Falkirk boy did look a bit deliberate from replay!!

[Ronster117]

If mr mccrackpot says he didn't mean it it was an accident then that should be the end of it.
he got his morals from big Pete..... Who are we to argue......don't let the truth get in the way.....
deliberate hand ball isn't a penalty if the player says sorry ref it was accidental........ref did the right thing by believing him.....
just hope the ref tomorrow night is as forgiving to our claims.....



cheating barstewards...... Rant over

[kaimendhibs]

I dont no what we'll do if that decision costs us. Radio scotland just laughed it off after the match. Its so obvious if that was celtic a public enquiry would be taken out l.

I heard that in the car. Dick gordon was peeing his pants about the handball and kick on mcgregor! Beggars belief

[LaMotta]

Now I am confused because a few years back a friend of mine explained that a handball didn't need to be deliberate to draw a penalty kick. Like a foul. Just reading now that around 2013, in england anyway, referees were being encouraged to interpret the players intent when giving a penalty - i.e. don't give a penalty if the player doesn't 'seem' to have meant it… :confused:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2284201/GRAHAM-POLL--The-Official-Line-The-new-handball-rule-explained-Newcastle-got-lucky-Fox-penalty.html

Also looked up the scottish rules of the game under fouls etc
http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_football.cfm?page=3605

A direct free kick is also awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following three offences:
• holds an opponent
• spits at an opponent
• handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his own penalty area)

If this is true, most of the penalties given for handball are probably harsh, given most of them involve flailing arms and balls moving at 100mph???

Having said all of that the Falkirk boy did look a bit deliberate from replay!!

Its all about the interpretation of deliberate.

Noone in their right mind intentionally handles the ball unless Suarez style for Uruguay on the line to prevent a certain goal. But the word deliberate doesnt just refer to this type of handball.

Former ref Charlie Richmond was in press other day saying that a penalty or foul should be awarded where there is a deliberate movement of the hand that results in the ball hitting it.

So if your arm is down by your side and the ball is blasted at you and hits it then no penalty.

You put your arm or hand out and change the direction of the ball then clear penalty, even if you didnt mean to handle it!

[Joe6-2]

The handball rule is a joke. Do you recall when Dylan conceded a free kick at Ibrox before they scored from it? His arm was behind his back and moving away from the ball yet the ref gives a free kick.

I think they just make it up.

There's no 'think' about it!!

[Bill Milne]

I do think that, if the handball had been by a Hibs player, the reaction would have been completely different. Houston's head would have exploded as he would, of course, have seen everything, and the Sportsound team would have gone into outer space in their condemnation of Alan Muir.

[rcarter1]

Its all about the interpretation of deliberate.

Noone in their right mind intentionally handles the ball unless Suarez style for Uruguay on the line to prevent a certain goal. But the word deliberate doesnt just refer to this type of handball.

Former ref Charlie Richmond was in press other day saying that a penalty or foul should be awarded where there is a deliberate movement of the hand that results in the ball hitting it.

So if your arm is down by your side and the ball is blasted at you and hits it then no penalty.

You put your arm or hand out and change the direction of the ball then clear penalty, even if you didnt mean to handle it!

Thanks for the clarification! :aok:

Do you think if your arm/hand moves away from your sides - but not deliberately (for example in a collision with another player), and it then touches the ball, that this is a penalty or not?

[Brooster]

Thanks for the clarification! :aok:

Do you think if your arm/hand moves away from your sides - but not deliberately (for example in a collision with another player), and it then touches the ball, that this is a penalty or not?

Penalty. If your arms/hands are in an unatural position (not by your side) and you touch the ball its a penalty. Tuesdays incident is as much as a penalty as you will ever see. Anyone who says otherwise is talking Tom Kite

[snooky]

That could end being the refereeing blunder that resigns us to the championship for another season

It was a series of referee blunders that helped put us in this division in the first instance. I hate playing the "we are the victim" card but when the rest of the pack are jokers there's no option.

[rcarter1]

Penalty. If your arms/hands are in an unatural position (not by your side) and you touch the ball its a penalty. Tuesdays incident is as much as a penalty as you will ever see. Anyone who says otherwise is talking Tom Kite

Again, thanks for the clarification. Sounds like they have to take away the interpretation element from the referee - which is what confused me about the 2013 article, and he wording of the SFA rule book.

That way the referee just has to act on what he sees and not try to work out what a player was trying to do?

[JimBHibees]

I do think that, if the handball had been by a Hibs player, the reaction would have been completely different. Houston's head would have exploded as he would, of course, have seen everything, and the Sportsound team would have gone into outer space in their condemnation of Alan Muir.

Couldnt agree more to be honest especially with regard to Sportsound. Thats twice in the last 2 games v Falkirk their obvious glee in the result. Gordon and English were joking that Muirhead should put a lottery ticket on as he got away with double fouls, completely ignoring it was McCracken for the first one of course. Nice to have a decision which could potentially keep us down and cost the club millions to be laughed off in such a way. The praising of Falkirk for the previous 2-2 when down to ten was fair enough to an extent however failed to mention they were allowed to foul at will and should have ended with 8 players in the game. Again it just wouldnt happen with other clubs especially the 2 Glasgow teams.

[lapsedhibee]

Penalty. If your arms/hands are in an unatural position (not by your side) and you touch the ball its a penalty. Tuesdays incident is as much as a penalty as you will ever see. Anyone who says otherwise is talking Tom Kite

Can't really see how that can work as a definition. It's only natural for your arms to be glued to your sides if you're standing completely still, as in a defensive wall perhaps. Soon as you move at all, your arms move away from your sides. Most fitba involves players moving rather than standing still (though I'm happy to accept Ray Wilkins as a counterexample here).

[LaMotta]

Again, thanks for the clarification. Sounds like they have to take away the interpretation element from the referee - which is what confused me about the 2013 article, and he wording of the SFA rule book.

That way the referee just has to act on what he sees and not try to work out what a player was trying to do?

I think the addition of one word to the hand ball rule would clear it up. That word is carelessly. So if a player handles the ball deliberately or carelessly, then a foul is awarded.

Deliberately - eg Suarez on the line stopping a goal, or a player clearly halting an attack on purpose.

Carelessly - where a player might have got his hand out the way of the ball but hasn’t, or a player has moved his hand towards the ball, ie 98 percent of all hand ball penalties!

Deliberate is a yellow card ( or red card if stops a goal).

Careless - foul but no booking.

This leaves the third type of hand ball, whereby the ball is blasted at you and there is nothing you could have done about it and should not be a foul - eg Dylan at Ibrox .

Sorted :greengrin

[stantonhibby]

I do think that, if the handball had been by a Hibs player, the reaction would have been completely different. Houston's head would have exploded as he would, of course, have seen everything, and the Sportsound team would have gone into outer space in their condemnation of Alan Muir.

None of that would happen as the penalty would have been given.

[Waxy]

None of that would happen as the penalty would have been given.
Spot on.