PDA

View Full Version : Terry Butcher - We made him a scapegoat apparently...



Winston Ingram
04-05-2016, 05:58 AM
What an arse. I'm pretty sure Dundee United weren't 5th when Mixu took over.

How this man can think it's ok to drag a team from the top half of the table to relegation and then expect to retain the keys the next season is utterly incredible.

Him and Malpas genuinely seem to believe it was nothing to do with them:confused:


http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/former-hibs-boss-terry-butcher-7890516#Jzbg3Km0vAv1LMBk.97

Pretty Boy
04-05-2016, 06:05 AM
I really detest that man.

Interesting to read he had a 'plan'. It looked to me like he just lurched from 1 distater to another.

Green Fish
04-05-2016, 06:17 AM
Bar Inverness he seemed to have a plan at each club he mismanaged. He destroyed them, got himself sacked and moved onto the next one. I wonder how much poetic license the journalist has used but tbh he seems so deluded he probably did say this. TB GTF.

Sent from my E2303 using Tapatalk

CABBAGEMAD
04-05-2016, 06:32 AM
can't believe how much I detest this man !!! At least other managers who failed were embarrassed not him worst appointment ever !!!:gwa:

Captain Trips
04-05-2016, 06:58 AM
Terry you are the scapegoat because it was your fault, who is to blame? It was you and your players between you not enough matches were won therefore we got relegated.

You had more resources than a lot of clubs whom finished higher. No excuses or scapegoat you relegated the club pure and simple.

JimBHibees
04-05-2016, 06:58 AM
Was he scapegoated at Newport, Brentford, Coventry, Sunderland, Sydney as well :confused:

Pete
04-05-2016, 07:03 AM
The manner of the relegation under his watch meant he was never going to get the chance. Nothing to do with the club looking for scapegoats, it was because he would have been a dead man walking and he simply didn't earn the right or deserve a chance after that.

matty_f
04-05-2016, 07:07 AM
The manner of the relegation under his watch meant he was never going to get the chance. Nothing to do with the club looking for scapegoats, it was because he would have been a dead man walking and he simply didn't earn the right or deserve a chance after that.
I think his strategic plan was also on a very different wavelength to the one which the club was embracing at that point.

LancsHibs
04-05-2016, 07:17 AM
I think his strategic plan was also on a very different wavelength to the one which the club was embracing at that point.

What was his plan at Newport County? Take them down too? Funny how they picked up as soon as he left! Utter clown of a man and a shocking football manager. Really detest this bellend for what he's done to us.

Bostonhibby
04-05-2016, 07:17 AM
Was he scapegoated at Newport, Brentford, Coventry, Sunderland, Sydney as well :confused:
Is scapegoating the new sacking?

The facts do tend to speak for themselves.

Giro Playboy
04-05-2016, 07:22 AM
Someone should inform Tel that it was his abysmal man management skills that got him the bullet not Hibs looking for scapegoats.
Slagging off your players in the media was not going to bring out the best in them. It was just going to cause resentment and thats what it did.

Diclonius
04-05-2016, 07:30 AM
**** Butcher, **** manager.

staunchhibby
04-05-2016, 07:32 AM
Where is his management skills.Every club he managed slid into relegation.Him and Malpas were bully boys.How do you expect players to play for you when they know they are on the way out.

Giro Playboy
04-05-2016, 07:33 AM
**** Butcher, **** manager. Would he have got us straight back up? I suppose we will never know

J-C
04-05-2016, 07:39 AM
We needed one ****ing point but he still couldn't motivate them to get it, he ripped the heart and soul out of the playing squad with his tactics, bullying and general mismanagement, should never be anywhere near football ever again, I just want to scream whenever I see his name anywhere.

SeanWilson
04-05-2016, 07:42 AM
We needed one ****ing point but he still couldn't motivate them to get it, he ripped the heart and soul out of the playing squad with his tactics, bullying and general mismanagement, should never be anywhere near football ever again, I just want to scream whenever I see his name anywhere.

:agree: strangley, every time i see Warburton spraffing his respectful rubbish, i think of that arse. Hope to goodness he has the same effect for them in the top league.

pacoluna
04-05-2016, 07:55 AM
The article refers to "our slump under Fenlon" - Absolutely no Chance would we have went down under PF.

SJM
04-05-2016, 08:00 AM
He's a ****ing ****er. Absolute parasite welt of a guy.

Ozyhibby
04-05-2016, 08:00 AM
Win our next seven game and we can banish that c*** from our memories forever. We should then have a rule where no one mentions his name again, ever.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

J-C
04-05-2016, 08:03 AM
The article refers to "our slump under Fenlon" - Absolutely no Chance would have we have went down under PF.


:agree: Fenlon's football was eye bleedingly boring but he set us up not to lose, we would've got the points we needed no problem.

CallumLaidlaw
04-05-2016, 08:04 AM
Butcher was far too interested in getting to the summer and doing his magical rebuilding with players that were happy to be bawled at day in day out. He thought we were safe and just had to cruise into the new season where he could ship out all the players that made life difficult for him.

JimBHibees
04-05-2016, 08:06 AM
:agree: strangley, every time i see Warburton spraffing his respectful rubbish, i think of that arse. Hope to goodness he has the same effect for them in the top league.

Unfortunately I think Warburton is a very good coach but can see the comparisons spraffing wise. :greengrin

Ozyhibby
04-05-2016, 08:06 AM
:agree: Fenlon's football was eye bleedingly boring but he set us up not to lose, we would've got the points we needed no problem.

I agree with that. We would never have got relegated under Fenlon. It was still the right decision to sack him.

J-C
04-05-2016, 08:13 AM
I agree with that. We would never have got relegated under Fenlon. It was still the right decision to sack him.


I think he walked rather than being sacked, he knew his time was up when the fans turned against him, nice guy seemingly but tried to run Hibs like one of his Irish league teams, job was too big for him.

Scotchmist
04-05-2016, 08:14 AM
Terry Butcher will never be any better than he is because he thinks he knows it all. He'll never admit that it was his his lack of management skills and his style of "Hoofball" that got us relegated. Thankfully one of the first things Leeann did when she came in was to get him out!

oneone73
04-05-2016, 08:14 AM
It was still the right decision to sack him.

We didn't. He walked, to his credit.

SlickShoes
04-05-2016, 08:17 AM
We didn't. He walked, to his credit.

NO he didn't. We had to pay him for an entire year while he sat on his arse and done **** all.

CallumLaidlaw
04-05-2016, 08:19 AM
We didn't. He walked, to his credit.

100% got sacked.

He's shown since what a stubborn man he is. He wouldnt have had the good grace to fall on his sword. He's still saying he shouldve been given the chance to bring us back up.

J-C
04-05-2016, 08:20 AM
NO he didn't. We had to pay him for an entire year while he sat on his arse and done **** all.


Think he was talking about Fenlon and not Butcher and according to Petrie at the AGM we didn't have Butcher on Gardening leave, he was sacked and paid off.

pacoluna
04-05-2016, 08:21 AM
100% got sacked.

He's shown since what a stubborn man he is. He wouldnt have had the good grace to fall on his sword. He's still saying he shouldve been given the chance to bring us back up.
oneone73 is referring to Pat Fenlon i think in relation to my post :thumbsup:

Mixu62
04-05-2016, 08:21 AM
Would he have got us straight back up? I suppose we will never know

He'd have got us out of the championship. ...and into league 1.

SJM
04-05-2016, 08:27 AM
He'd have got us out of the championship. ...and into league 1.

I don't think so. He knows what it takes to get out of this league as shown at Inverness. He still made a shambles of the job though and he makes bobby Williamson look as likeable as Ranieri.

Giro Playboy
04-05-2016, 08:28 AM
I still dont understand why Butcher was allowed to clear out virtually the whole squad just before he was sacked. I remember when Stubbs first arrived he had something like 11 senior players to work with and no goalies.

oneone73
04-05-2016, 08:30 AM
oneone73 is referring to Pat Fenlon i think in relation to my post :thumbsup:

Correct. Can't believe anyone thought I'd stick up for that erse Butcher. Grrr.

H18S NX
04-05-2016, 08:31 AM
Butcher is an absolute tolley of a man,a clinker on the erse of humanity.

SJM
04-05-2016, 08:32 AM
I still dont understand why Butcher was allowed to clear out virtually the whole squad just before he was sacked. I remember when Stubbs first arrived he had something like 11 senior players to work with and no goalies.

Absolute baffling decision that was. Every last player hated the **** and Malpas more.

J-C
04-05-2016, 08:34 AM
I still dont understand why Butcher was allowed to clear out virtually the whole squad just before he was sacked. I remember when Stubbs first arrived he had something like 11 senior players to work with and no goalies.


Again down to Petrie, we waited 2 weeks for LD to take her job and Petrie gave her the remit to deal with Butcher, during that time he was allowed to get rid of half the playing squad and a load of youngsters, I think I remember Stubbs saying he would've kept Thomson on had he known what had happened, instead he signed for Dundee.

SlickShoes
04-05-2016, 08:41 AM
Again down to Petrie, we waited 2 weeks for LD to take her job and Petrie gave her the remit to deal with Butcher, during that time he was allowed to get rid of half the playing squad and a load of youngsters, I think I remember Stubbs saying he would've kept Thomson on had he known what had happened, instead he signed for Dundee.

Imagine coming in as Leann and being handed a manager thats just sacked everyone, that you can tell is an idiot and you now have to sack as well. Horrifying. Then you have to hire a new man and make it not sound like the worst job ever to walk in to.

SJM
04-05-2016, 08:50 AM
Imagine coming in as Leann and being handed a manager thats just sacked everyone, that you can tell is an idiot and you now have to sack as well. Horrifying. Then you have to hire a new man and make it not sound like the worst job ever to walk in to.

On the contrary, the decks where cleared and she could start from scratch as she has done. Far better than a St Mirren scenario, full of ***** players can't get rid of. Still shouldn't have been that **** butchers decision though.

easty
04-05-2016, 08:54 AM
I agree with that. We would never have got relegated under Fenlon. It was still the right decision to sack him.

We might not have, but I can't say with any confidence that we'd never have been relegated if he'd stayed. He didn't leave to go on to bigger and better things, he left cos he was well out his depth.

Out of the 15 games he was in charge in 2013/14, we failed to score in 8 of them. Those 15 games included utter humiliation in Europe, and two 1-0 defeats to the worst Hearts team I can remember. We scored 14 goals in those 15 games...5 of them in a 5-3 win against the mighty Stranraer in the cup.

Terry Butcher was a complete car crash of a manager, and I'd never let him into Easter Road again. I don't hold the same hatred for Fenlon, but he was a diddy of a manager.

Jones28
04-05-2016, 09:43 AM
We were relegated because the team downed tools after the tool in charge told them they were no longer required...in January!

Smartie
04-05-2016, 09:47 AM
I still dont understand why Butcher was allowed to clear out virtually the whole squad just before he was sacked. I remember when Stubbs first arrived he had something like 11 senior players to work with and no goalies.

I'm not sure how many of those who left actually wanted to stay.

I wouldn't have kept any of the players that were emptied and I think Stubbs got the decisions relating to who was worth keeping 100% correct too.

ChilliEater
04-05-2016, 10:13 AM
Without bothering to check stats - so I could be wrong - every team Butcher took over went into immediate freefall. However, the ones that didn't sack him (ICT and Motherwell) then bounced back. I'm quite sure if we'd kept him that he did have a plan, would have brought in almost an entire new squad and we may, or may not, have come back up before now. That "succesful" team would, however, have been filled with hard-working journeymen playing a high tempo, high pressure version of hoofball focussed on having Osman Sow at centre-forward. I'd rather have Stubbs style of passing football and take a bit longer to get there.

emerald green
04-05-2016, 10:20 AM
Butcher is quoted as saying "you would have to ask them (the Hibs board) if they want to deflect the blame, but that's what it looks like."

The irony of that statement seems lost on this clown. This seems to me to be exactly what Butcher is trying to do himself. He doesn't seem to accept any responsibility for what happened, under his watch at ER, at all.

That said, some of the players taking wages at ER at the time were a disgrace during the slide into relegation. One point FFS. Could they not have just managed that?

They were both to some extent or other to blame. Terrible man management skills, and players who downed tools too. Disgrace.

Last, but not least. Petrie should have intervened and sacked Butcher (and Malpas) before Hibs fell through the trap door, when it became clear Hibs were in big danger of being relegated. It might just have kept Hibs up if Butcher & Malpas were away. We'll never know now of course.

lucky
04-05-2016, 10:27 AM
He's telling lies. I hope Hibs come out and expose the charlatan for the lying clown that he is. He was asked for his football philosophy by LD and how he would take the club forward. Malpas and him failed to give a decent answer and were sacked.

KeithTheHibby
04-05-2016, 10:40 AM
**** off Butcher you massive ****.

Tyler Durden
04-05-2016, 11:22 AM
We might not have, but I can't say with any confidence that we'd never have been relegated if he'd stayed. He didn't leave to go on to bigger and better things, he left cos he was well out his depth.

Out of the 15 games he was in charge in 2013/14, we failed to score in 8 of them. Those 15 games included utter humiliation in Europe, and two 1-0 defeats to the worst Hearts team I can remember. We scored 14 goals in those 15 games...5 of them in a 5-3 win against the mighty Stranraer in the cup.

Terry Butcher was a complete car crash of a manager, and I'd never let him into Easter Road again. I don't hold the same hatred for Fenlon, but he was a diddy of a manager.

What about Fenlons average league position? Is that not an accepted measure of a managers performance?

SJM
04-05-2016, 11:24 AM
What about Fenlons average league position? Is that not an accepted measure of a managers performance?

Average league position doesn't mean a lot as they are judged season to season. The year Fenlon left we had an absolute horrendous/humiliating start to the season that we never recovered from.

MWHIBBIES
04-05-2016, 01:27 PM
Average league position doesn't mean a lot as they are judged season to season. The year Fenlon left we had an absolute horrendous/humiliating start to the season that we never recovered from.No we didnt, go look at the table when Fenlon left, we would have been easily secure.

SJM
04-05-2016, 01:37 PM
No we didnt, go look at the table when Fenlon left, we would have been easily secure.

Aye we did, we got destroyed off Malmo an had won 1 home league game all season and lost to hearts in admin twice. It wasn't good enough.

Smartie
04-05-2016, 01:38 PM
We've argued about this quite recently - I think we would have been relegated under Fenlon.

I'd have a lot more sympathy for Butcher and might be inclined to agree with him re being a scapegoat if he'd maintained a dignified silence and not come out and said this.

He's an easy guy to dislike and it is tempting to pin all our problems on him but the truth is that there were a number of people equally if not more culpable. Petrie, Calderwood, Fenlon, many of the players - all of them made disgraceful contributions towards our demise. We needed a root and branch transformation of the club with LD coming in etc but only getting rid of Butcher and replacing him with, well, anyone else yet working the way we did before would have continued to have disastrous results.

Someone made a very fair observation above that when Butcher has been given time to destroy and rebuild a club he's generally done well. He's seldom been given that time though so it is easy to point to him as a failure. It is a scandalous dereliction of duty that this was not spotted prior to him coming in so his appointment must go down as a total disaster. He was 100% not the person we needed at that time and that much was not his fault and I can understand why he might feel a bit like he is being scapegoated.

MWHIBBIES
04-05-2016, 01:48 PM
Aye we did, we got destroyed off Malmo an had won 1 home league game all season and lost to hearts in admin twice. It wasn't good enough.We got destroyed off Rangers, lost to Dumbarton twice and finished behind Falkirk. See how easy it is just to look at the negatives? You don't mention we played Motherwell who finished 2nd, Aberdeen who finished 3rd and Celtic at home in those early games, hardly an easy run. We also were the only team in a year to win in Perth and went on a run of 4 wins, 3 draws and 1 loss after losing at Tynie.

We were 5th in the table, I'd kill for that now, simple as.

SJM
04-05-2016, 01:51 PM
We got destroyed off Rangers, lost to Dumbarton twice and finished behind Falkirk. See how easy it is just to look at the negatives? You don't mention we played Motherwell who finished 2nd, Aberdeen who finished 3rd and Celtic at home in those early games, hardly an easy run. We also were the only team in a year to win in Perth and went on a run of 4 wins, 3 draws and 1 loss after losing at Tynie.

We were 5th in the table, I'd kill for that now, simple as.


Yet we only won once at home an the crowds where falling, there was protests and many had had enough of the boring negative football.

Smartie
04-05-2016, 01:54 PM
We got destroyed off Rangers, lost to Dumbarton twice and finished behind Falkirk. See how easy it is just to look at the negatives? You don't mention we played Motherwell who finished 2nd, Aberdeen who finished 3rd and Celtic at home in those early games, hardly an easy run. We also were the only team in a year to win in Perth and went on a run of 4 wins, 3 draws and 1 loss after losing at Tynie.

We were 5th in the table, I'd kill for that now, simple as.

Seriously? Those players, THAT chairman, that playing style?

We've had our problems since and we may yet have the most brutal kick in the nuts at the end of a season - ever - in store for us yet but you couldn't pay me any money to swap what we have now for what we had then.

We were well into a woeful downward spiral then and tbh I really don't think it's fair on LD, Stubbs and all the people who have contributed so much since Butcher was given his jotters and we started our revival to wear rose-tinted specs about what position we were in when Fenlon left.

My_Wife_Camille
04-05-2016, 01:57 PM
Spoke to Tom Taiwo at Falkirk the other day and spoke briefly about Butcher. I wont repeat what he said about him but let's just say that it makes some of posts on here look kind:greengrin

MWHIBBIES
04-05-2016, 01:57 PM
Yet we only won once at home an the crowds where falling, there was protests and many had had enough of the boring negative football.Well they got what they asked for, Fenlon out worked wonders. The fans were as negative as the football, away games were so much better because folk actually supported the players.


Seriously? Those players, THAT chairman, that playing style?

We've had our problems since and we may yet have the most brutal kick in the nuts at the end of a season - ever - in store for us yet but you couldn't pay me any money to swap what we have now for what we had then.

We were well into a woeful downward spiral then and tbh I really don't think it's fair on LD, Stubbs and all the people who have contributed so much since Butcher was given his jotters and we started our revival to wear rose-tinted specs about what position we were in when Fenlon left.All we had to do was finished the season with Fenlon and appoint Dempster then, instead he was hounded out and we went down.

Geo_1875
04-05-2016, 02:10 PM
Aye we did, we got destroyed off Malmo an had won 1 home league game all season and lost to hearts in admin twice. It wasn't good enough.

It wasn't very good but I doubt we'd have been close to relegation under Fenlon that year. Butcher couldn't motivate the team to a couple of draws that would have saved us. I'd much rather have had Fenlon until the end of the season then said goodbye to him.

--------
04-05-2016, 02:12 PM
It wasn't very good but I doubt we'd have been close to relegation under Fenlon that year. Butcher couldn't motivate the team to a couple of draws that would have saved us. I'd much rather have had Fenlon until the end of the season then said goodbye to him.


IIRC he couldn't be bothered to actually turn up for the play-off final - wasn't he on holiday?

Geo_1875
04-05-2016, 02:16 PM
IIRC he couldn't be bothered to actually turn up for the play-off final - wasn't he on holiday?

Can't remember if he missed the game but Leeanne had to wait for him to come back from his holiday to sack him.

Hibby Gav
04-05-2016, 02:19 PM
This is just dirty sevco rag stirring up dross from a terrible sevco ex captain who was a pathetic excuse for a manager just when we are starting our play off fight and cup preparation.....

delete delete delete

ggtth

seanoheimhin
04-05-2016, 03:01 PM
A poor poor manager, but more importantly a completely horrid individual.

Sad that he ever got anywhere near the club really.

PISTOL1875
04-05-2016, 06:32 PM
Spoke to Tom Taiwo at Falkirk the other day and spoke briefly about Butcher. I wont repeat what he said about him but let's just say that it makes some of posts on here look kind:greengrin

I met Ryan McGivern in a Manchester pub before we went down and I asked him what was going on regarding the downward slump.. He told me that TB and MM were a f ****** disgrace , the worst coaches he had ever had the mis-fortune of playing under.. Two dinosaurs who had no f****** idea about modern football and the idea of hoofing the ball into corners for forwards to chase was the best style to play... Team morale was at an all time low due to the ' man-management ' techniques.. Pinnng young players up against walls in dressing rooms was a favourite of Butcher as well apparently.. Morale also wasn't helped around January when he told the players that they would all be emptied regardless of what division we were going to be playing in...

Speechless was my reaction...

hibsdaft
04-05-2016, 06:44 PM
I met Ryan McGivern in a Manchester pub before we went down and I asked him what was going on regarding the downward slump.. He told me that TB and MM were a f ****** disgrace , the worst coaches he had ever had the mis-fortune of playing under.. Two dinosaurs who had no f****** idea about modern football and the idea of hoofing the ball into corners for forwards to chase was the best style to play... Team morale was at an all time low due to the ' man-management ' techniques.. Pinnng young players up against walls in dressing rooms was a favourite of Butcher as well apparently.. Morale also wasn't helped around January when he told the players that they would all be emptied regardless of what division we were going to be playing in...

Speechless was my reaction...

i have no problem believing any of that. sounds spot on. the guy was a complete prick. hope he never steps foot at ER again.