Junior Doctors strike

[pacoluna]

First Duties of a Doctor - Make the care for your patient your first concern

Modern day Junior Doctor - Unhappy with new contract proposals/money

Go on on Strike


As much is I despise the Tories and Jeremy *unt

I cant help but see this as a betrayal of the Hippocratic Oath.

[Smartie]

First Duties of a Doctor - Make the care for your patient your first concern

Modern day Junior Doctor - Unhappy with new contract proposals/money

Go on on Strike


As much is I despise the Tories and Jeremy *unt

I cant help but see this as a betrayal of the Hippocratic Oath.

You just keep believing what the Tories' pals in the media want you to believe (slightly ironic given some of the conclusions drawn in the aftermath of the Hillsborough affair).

Doctors are the last people who would be moved to strike action so it's pretty desperate stuff that this is what it has come to.

Hospitals aren't lying empty and unused - all emergency units are fully-functional and no patients will be harmed as a result of this strike.

Unlike the harm that will be caused to patients by the imposition of this despicable contract.

Doctors are sticking up for patients by going on strike. They could be quiet, meek and quietly get on with being shafted but that is in nobody's interests.

They have my full backing on this matter.

We have horrendous problems in this country - an ageing population, sky-rocketing costs of healthcare in looking after that population and a political system that prevents sensible debate about what we do about it.

Then you have the problem of populist politicians who make promises like a 7 day NHS (totally misinterpreting evidence as a justification for it) without a scooby how we're meant to pay for it.

Unsurprisingly the Conservative solution is to squeeze the NHS so hard that further privatisation will eventually appear to be the best option.

Don't fall into the trap of thinking that the doctors are the bad guys here.

[wpj]

You just keep believing what the Tories' pals in the media want you to believe (slightly ironic given some of the conclusions drawn in the aftermath of the Hillsborough affair).

Doctors are the last people who would be moved to strike action so it's pretty desperate stuff that this is what it has come to.

Hospitals aren't lying empty and unused - all emergency units are fully-functional and no patients will be harmed as a result of this strike.

Unlike the harm that will be caused to patients by the imposition of this despicable contract.

Doctors are sticking up for patients by going on strike. They could be quiet, meek and quietly get on with being shafted but that is in nobody's interests.

They have my full backing on this matter.

We have horrendous problems in this country - an ageing population, sky-rocketing costs of healthcare in looking after that population and a political system that prevents sensible debate about what we do about it.

Then you have the problem of populist politicians who make promises like a 7 day NHS (totally misinterpreting evidence as a justification for it) without a scooby how we're meant to pay for it.

Unsurprisingly the Conservative solution is to squeeze the NHS so hard that further privatisation will eventually appear to be the best option.

Don't fall into the trap of thinking that the doctors are the bad guys here.

100% agree, media coverage has been unsurprising in it's lies and scare mongering. Lets hang onto and value the NHS while we still can

[Jack]

First Duties of a Doctor - Make the care for your patient your first concern

Modern day Junior Doctor - Unhappy with new contract proposals/money

Go on on Strike


As much is I despise the Tories and Jeremy *unt

I cant help but see this as a betrayal of the Hippocratic Oath.

And what of future patients the government wants to be cared for by junior doctors unfit for work through tiredness?

[SHODAN]

The entire point of this contract is to force junior doctors out of the NHS, lower the quality of care and attempt to soften public opinion towards privatising the NHS.

It's absolutely despicable (even for the Tories) and I fully support the strike. Just imagine what a state our health care system would be heading in without devolution. :agree:

[Pretty Boy]

I support them 100%.

[Jonnyboy]

First Duties of a Doctor - Make the care for your patient your first concern

Modern day Junior Doctor - Unhappy with new contract proposals/money

Go on on Strike


As much is I despise the Tories and Jeremy *unt

I cant help but see this as a betrayal of the Hippocratic Oath.

Your choice to view it like but I don't.

I back them 100%

[Scouse Hibee]

First Duties of a Doctor - Make the care for your patient your first concern

Modern day Junior Doctor - Unhappy with new contract proposals/money

Go on on Strike


As much is I despise the Tories and Jeremy *unt

I cant help but see this as a betrayal of the Hippocratic Oath.

There has been a massive betrayal, the junior doctors are the victims, about time doctors fought back.

[Hibbyradge]

Taking the Hippocratic Oath doesn't mean you have to allow your employer to take advantage of you.

Indeed, the Doctors will tell you that the new contract puts patients more at risk, so they're actually upholding their oath by fighting it.

However, which part do you feel is being violated?

"I swear to fulfill, to the best of my ability and judgment, this covenant:...

I will respect the hard-won scientific gains of those physicians in whose steps I walk, and gladly share such knowledge as is mine with those who are to follow.

I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures which are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism.

I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug.

I will not be ashamed to say "I know not," nor will I fail to call in my colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient's recovery.

I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know. Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. Above all, I must not play at God.

I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.

I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.

I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.

If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter. May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help."

[SuperAllyMcleod]

Great article from Frankie Boyle (of all people) on this subject - I have only ever had wonderful care from everyone in the NHS and back them fully.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr/27/jeremy-hunt-doesnt-understand-junior-doctors-book-dismantle-nhs

[CB_NO3]

Back the doctors 100%.

[pacoluna]

I'm not basing my opinion on the media..

Couple of points that I base my opinion on

- The strike is over pay not patient safety, specifically it is about how much doctors will get on the weekend. The BMA are pushing for a higher salary not better working hours.

- The BMA is a pressure group/ a Union and is not an impartial medical association. They are pushing as mentioned before for a better salary cap not better working hours (I do think they should get a salary rise)

- With regards to working hours - the maximum hours a doctor can be made to work will decrease with new contract from roughly 90-95 hours to 70-75 hours) both are of course a ridiculous amount of hours - but why use this as justification for strike when it is decreasing.. why now?

- The NHS is the only healthcare working class Brits can access - it is publicly funded which keeps the cost of private care sky high. So once again patients are at risk.

- The BMA came to an agreement with all points of the new contract except one - weekend pay - is this justification for strike?

My point, my opinion of course is that this strike is not about patient safety but about money,

Jeremy *unt's new contract doesn't solve the issue but neither do the BMA's demands.

[RyeSloan]

I'm not basing my opinion on the media.. Couple of points that I base my opinion on - The strike is over pay not patient safety, specifically it is about how much doctors will get on the weekend. The BMA are pushing for a higher salary not better working hours. - The BMA is a pressure group/ a Union and is not an impartial medical association. They are pushing as mentioned before for a better salary cap not better working hours (I do think they should get a salary rise) - With regards to working hours - the maximum hours a doctor can be made to work will decrease with new contract from roughly 90-95 hours to 70-75 hours) both are of course a ridiculous amount of hours - but why use this as justification for strike when it is decreasing.. why now? - The NHS is the only healthcare working class Brits can access - it is publicly funded which keeps the cost of private care sky high. So once again patients are at risk. - The BMA came to an agreement with all points of the new contract except one - weekend pay - is this justification for strike? My point, my opinion of course is that this strike is not about patient safety but about money, Jeremy *unt's new contract doesn't solve the issue but neither do the BMA's demands.

That was my conclusion after an admittedly brief reading of the issues...seems to me that really its the removal of the Saturday as time and a half that's at the crux of the matter and any 'patient safety' issues seemed a bit of a stretch.

I've no problem with people looking to protect their T&C's but I'm not convinced by the BMA who's default position seems to be negative to any change at any level no matter what.

On a sighted different note that's one of the problem with nationalised services...they are ultimately controlled by politicians and any reforms quickly become political rather than practical. Yet the same people who are busy bashing the government on this are often the same ones demanding re nationalisation of power, water, trains etc which, in my opinion at least, would only lead to similar confrontation across these industries as the unions and government fight for control.

[Future17]

Great article from Frankie Boyle (of all people) on this subject - I have only ever had wonderful care from everyone in the NHS and back them fully.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr/27/jeremy-hunt-doesnt-understand-junior-doctors-book-dismantle-nhs

Boyle does write very well. If you agree with his political viewpoint, he's very entertaining.

This article makes some good points and has a surprisingly touching ending.

[HappyAsHellas]

I'm not basing my opinion on the media..

Couple of points that I base my opinion on

- The strike is over pay not patient safety, specifically it is about how much doctors will get on the weekend. The BMA are pushing for a higher salary not better working hours.

- The BMA is a pressure group/ a Union and is not an impartial medical association. They are pushing as mentioned before for a better salary cap not better working hours (I do think they should get a salary rise)

- With regards to working hours - the maximum hours a doctor can be made to work will decrease with new contract from roughly 90-95 hours to 70-75 hours) both are of course a ridiculous amount of hours - but why use this as justification for strike when it is decreasing.. why now?

- The NHS is the only healthcare working class Brits can access - it is publicly funded which keeps the cost of private care sky high. So once again patients are at risk.

- The BMA came to an agreement with all points of the new contract except one - weekend pay - is this justification for strike?

My point, my opinion of course is that this strike is not about patient safety but about money,

Jeremy *unt's new contract doesn't solve the issue but neither do the BMA's demands.

This government wants to vouch the benefits of staying in the EU who want to make it illegal for anyone to work over 48 hours per week. Who's kidding who?
Back the doctors, all this crap about Hippocratic oaths and money is just bull. People have listened to this garbage so many times over the years, primarily with the nurses and it's sickening that these highly respected people are once again being used as guinea pigs by the tory ****.

[Hibbyradge]

This short video is worth watching.

http://www.thecanary.co/2016/04/28/piers-morgan-suggests-junior-doctor-striking-cash-happens-next-fantastic-video/

[Smartie]

I also think that Boyle's point about money is a very good one.

Why is it that we have somehow got into the position that a doctor should feel ashamed to want to be well-paid for what is a very difficult, demanding job and will have required them to make a number of sacrifices and put in a lot of time studying to get to that position?

If I need to see a doctor I want them to be well-rested, appropriately recompensed and adequately motivated to do their best for me.

They are human beings, with similar wants, needs and aspirations as the rest of us.

It is nobody's interests to keep beating them down, having them work ridiculous hours or pay them so little that the only option is for them to move and work abroad.

[SunshineOnLeith]

Having peaked on the main board, pacoluna now brings his unique brand of Internet trolling to the holy ground.

'5 stars' - The Daily Mail
'An inspiration' - Harry, aged 12


Coming soon: 'UKIP, a great bunch of Lads'

[pacoluna]

Having peaked on the main board, pacoluna now brings his unique brand of Internet trolling to the holy ground.

'5 stars' - The Daily Mail
'An inspiration' - Harry, aged 12


Coming soon: 'UKIP, a great bunch of Lads'

Your acting like the 12 year old taking the huff because someone has a different opinion from you. Can students these days not engage in civil debate rather than be offended by difference of opinion.

Trolling my a*se.

[lyonhibs]

Having peaked on the main board, pacoluna now brings his unique brand of Internet trolling to the holy ground.

'5 stars' - The Daily Mail
'An inspiration' - Harry, aged 12


Coming soon: 'UKIP, a great bunch of Lads'

I disagree wholeheartedly with Paco Luna's stance on this, but that is childish chat.

I think the attempts to impose a contract that worsens conditions and development opportunities for Junior doctors - an already hugely overworked and underpaid yet vital group of highly skilled workers - is the straw that broke the collective camel's back of the large numbers of people who are thoroughly pissed off by the Tory's shameless agenda of targeting the poorest and weakest in society and worsening their lot (or at best, making it significantly more challenging for them to maintain their current standard of living) all in the name of "austerity".

This isn't going to go away and I don't think the extremely high levels of public support from all sides for the doctors is going to wane much, if at all.

And also Jeremy Hunt stokes up an anger in me that no politician - not even that slimeball Osborne - manages. He just doesn't seem to have a functioning heart or the tiniest sprinkling of compassion or common sense.

[Hibrandenburg]

I disagree wholeheartedly with Paco Luna's stance on this, but that is childish chat.

I think the attempts to impose a contract that worsens conditions and development opportunities for Junior doctors - an already hugely overworked and underpaid yet vital group of highly skilled workers - is the straw that broke the collective camel's back of the large numbers of people who are thoroughly pissed off by the Tory's shameless agenda of targeting the poorest and weakest in society and worsening their lot (or at best, making it significantly more challenging for them to maintain their current standard of living) all in the name of "austerity".

This isn't going to go away and I don't think the extremely high levels of public support from all sides for the doctors is going to wane much, if at all.

And also Jeremy Hunt stokes up an anger in me that no politician - not even that slimeball Osborne - manages. He just doesn't seem to have a functioning heart or the tiniest sprinkling of compassion or common sense.

No skin off the tories noses if this goes on and on. Like you say at some point public support will wane but I'm sure the tories have their private insurance to see them through the crisis.

[Jack]

No skin off the tories noses if this goes on and on. Like you say at some point public support will wane but I'm sure the tories have their private insurance to see them through the crisis.

And no doubt enough income from their shares in private medical companies to cover the premium.

[Colr]

Hoorah Henry doctors are getting offered an 11% payrise. Don't remember seeing them jumping up and down to support Unison and the other medical professions who had the square root of **** all since 2008.

[Hibernia&Alba]

You just keep believing what the Tories' pals in the media want you to believe (slightly ironic given some of the conclusions drawn in the aftermath of the Hillsborough affair).

Doctors are the last people who would be moved to strike action so it's pretty desperate stuff that this is what it has come to.

Hospitals aren't lying empty and unused - all emergency units are fully-functional and no patients will be harmed as a result of this strike.

Unlike the harm that will be caused to patients by the imposition of this despicable contract.

Doctors are sticking up for patients by going on strike. They could be quiet, meek and quietly get on with being shafted but that is in nobody's interests.

They have my full backing on this matter.

We have horrendous problems in this country - an ageing population, sky-rocketing costs of healthcare in looking after that population and a political system that prevents sensible debate about what we do about it.

Then you have the problem of populist politicians who make promises like a 7 day NHS (totally misinterpreting evidence as a justification for it) without a scooby how we're meant to pay for it.

Unsurprisingly the Conservative solution is to squeeze the NHS so hard that further privatisation will eventually appear to be the best option.

Don't fall into the trap of thinking that the doctors are the bad guys here.

:top marks

Terrific post

[lyonhibs]

Hoorah Henry doctors are getting offered an 11% payrise. Don't remember seeing them jumping up and down to support Unison and the other medical professions who had the square root of **** all since 2008.

What, pray tell, is a "Hooray Henry" doctor??

[Allant1981]

Hoorah Henry doctors are getting offered an 11% payrise. Don't remember seeing them jumping up and down to support Unison and the other medical professions who had the square root of **** all since 2008.

What about the 1% pay rise they get every year!!!!

[vincipernoi]

Hoorah Henry doctors are getting offered an 11% payrise. Don't remember seeing them jumping up and down to support Unison and the other medical professions who had the square root of **** all since 2008.



I'm a doctor but am not called Henry and can't remember ever saying hooray

[Giro Playboy]

First Duties of a Doctor - Make the care for your patient your first concern

Modern day Junior Doctor - Unhappy with new contract proposals/money

Go on on Strike


As much is I despise the Tories and Jeremy *unt

I cant help but see this as a betrayal of the Hippocratic Oath. I take it your a Daily Mail reader

[lyonhibs]

I take it your a Daily Mail reader

With grammar like that, I'd say that shameful burden falls on you :greengrin

[pacoluna]

I take it your a Daily Mail reader
My political and public persuasion is not exclusive to one party or newspaper. Each have pros and cons - However I believe in Scottish Independence so you can guess were my first vote will be going contrary i'm guessing to your opinion of me.

[Hibbyradge]

First Duties of a Doctor - Make the care for your patient your first concern

Modern day Junior Doctor - Unhappy with new contract proposals/money

Go on on Strike


As much is I despise the Tories and Jeremy *unt

I cant help but see this as a betrayal of the Hippocratic Oath.

"Of course, the strikers are saying this is about safety, not pay, as expecting to be paid a decent wage for a difficult and highly skilled job is now considered selfish."

Frankie Boyle can sometimes grate, but this is a good read. It's funny and poignant to the end.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr/27/jeremy-hunt-doesnt-understand-junior-doctors-book-dismantle-nhs

[RyeSloan]

So just what has changed the BMA's mind on protecting patient safety and the future of the NHS in the new deal agreed recently?

Nowt that I can see...in fact quite the opposite as the main change seems to be rewarding those doctors that work more weekends and longer hours over those that don't.

After all the strikes and moral high ground the BMA has taken it seems it was just about protecting the pay of those who earned the most already...will be interesting to see what their members say to this deal.

[Hibbyradge]

It seems the junior doctors were right all along.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/aug/23/seven-day-nhs-labour-demands-inquiry-as-leak-reveals-crisis-warning?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GU+Today+main+NEW+H+categories&utm_term=187165&subid=16631905&CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2

[ronaldo7]

https://www.nhsforyes.scot/single-post/2017/05/08/More-Money-for-Primary-Care-but-What-is-it-Doing-We-Break-it-Down

https://www.nhsforyes.scot/single-post/2017/05/08/NHS-in-England-faces-GP-Crisis-Study-finds-7-in-10-planning-to-quit-or-reduce-hours

https://www.nhsforyes.scot/single-post/2017/04/21/Scottish-NHS-tops-AE-4-hour-wait-times-for-the-24th-Month-in-a-Row

With all the pressures on the NHS, it's good to see some more cash going into local services.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

https://www.nhsforyes.scot/single-post/2017/05/08/More-Money-for-Primary-Care-but-What-is-it-Doing-We-Break-it-Down

https://www.nhsforyes.scot/single-post/2017/05/08/NHS-in-England-faces-GP-Crisis-Study-finds-7-in-10-planning-to-quit-or-reduce-hours

https://www.nhsforyes.scot/single-post/2017/04/21/Scottish-NHS-tops-AE-4-hour-wait-times-for-the-24th-Month-in-a-Row

With all the pressures on the NHS, it's good to see some more cash going into local services.

Im sure they are all very balanced and unbiased sources...

[xyz23jc]

Im sure they are all very balanced and unbiased sources...

A bit like your knee-jerk responses to them. :agree:

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

A bit like your knee-jerk responses to them. :agree:

I believe labour will be saying something about the state of the NHS in Scotland tomorrow.

[ronaldo7]

Im sure they are all very balanced and unbiased sources...

None from Conservative Home. Sorry.