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View Full Version : Where did things go wrong?



G B Young
11-04-2016, 08:22 AM
What would you say was the key reason for the alarming decline in our form over the last few weeks?

Since90+2
11-04-2016, 08:50 AM
I dont think you can pinpoint one single issue more a collective of the following:

Stubbs being naive tactically
Injuries to key players especially Dylan
Progression in the cups has taken its toll physically and mentally
A lot of our big players are only young guys and will naturally have periods of inconsistency
Malonga leaving in January

mentalhibee
11-04-2016, 08:57 AM
We don't cut teams open enough. Should have signed a couple of creative wingers rather than 6 centre midfielders! Malonga leaving hasn't helped as he brought others into play with his hold up play. Hopefully beat Falkirk and kick on for the rest of the season.

Hibrandenburg
11-04-2016, 08:57 AM
It started going wrong in the eighties when our managerial revolving door was installed. A manager needs to be the foundation that a team is built around and not the decoration that gets redone for cosmetic purposes. The players need to know that it's their arse on the line come kick-off and not the managers. We need a club that backs the manager through thick and thin and send out the message that no player is bigger than the team. Since Bosnan individual players have ruled the roost, that can't work at small clubs like ours. Get the right manager in and stick with him.

nickwhibs
11-04-2016, 09:01 AM
I dont think you can pinpoint one single issue more a collective of the following:

Stubbs being naive tactically
Injuries to key players especially Dylan
Progression in the cups has taken its toll physically and mentally
A lot of our big players are only young guys and will naturally have periods of inconsistency
Malonga leaving in January

Yep, what he said. These factors have all contributed, possibly the amount of games being the biggest factor - some guys just seem burned out. Our system needs changed to freshen things up - either 3-5-2 or using wide men is vital. We need to rally round, and stick together.

SlickShoes
11-04-2016, 09:08 AM
It started going wrong in the eighties when our managerial revolving door was installed. A manager needs to be the foundation that a team is built around and not the decoration that gets redone for cosmetic purposes. The players need to know that it's their arse on the line come kick-off and not the managers. We need a club that backs the manager through thick and thin and send out the message that no player is bigger than the team. Since Bosnan individual players have ruled the roost, that can't work at small clubs like ours. Get the right manager in and stick with him.

Alex Miller: 1986-1996
Jim Duffy: 1996-1998 (rightfully sacked)
Alex McLeish: 1998-2001 (left for a bigger job)
Bobby Williamson: 2002-2004
Tony Mowbray: 2004-2006.

The "revolving door" was only installed in 2007 when John Collins left.

MrSmith
11-04-2016, 09:12 AM
Think we are still all hurting from the cup result. Perspective required.

neil7908
11-04-2016, 09:14 AM
A combination of all of the above unfortunately which is what is making me so pessimistic at the moment.

Ozyhibby
11-04-2016, 09:14 AM
They were never right. Since Stubbs arrived we have not been able to score enough goals and that remains the problem.


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FromTheCapital
11-04-2016, 09:15 AM
Losing our game in hand over Rangers against Morton at Easter Road...
We never recovered from that.


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Hibs Class
11-04-2016, 09:23 AM
We don't cut teams open enough. Should have signed a couple of creative wingers rather than 6 centre midfielders! Malonga leaving hasn't helped as he brought others into play with his hold up play. Hopefully beat Falkirk and kick on for the rest of the season.

Hopefully we will beat Falkirk, but with their current advantage they are likely to be even more defensively minded than normal and that is what we struggle to break down. We have been creating chances, but not converting anything like as many as we should have done, think confidence must be at least part of the cause of that.

NAE NOOKIE
11-04-2016, 09:24 AM
I've gone for the curse option .......... after decades of watching Hibs have no luck at all that's the only conclusion I can reach. In order to achieve anything it appears to me that Hibs have to be utterly brilliant, where other clubs can get by on luck or decisions going their way we cant.

How often in cup finals have we had vital players injured ...... Sauzee and Griffiths to name but two. How many lucky goals have we scored? How often in that 21 game derby streak were we the better team and still couldn't win?

How often has it happened that Hibs have a post new year slump .... no matter the team personnel, no matter the manager it happens more often than not.

Nah ......... its not a new manager we need, its a bloody priest and to be honest if I could buy Hibs tomorrow getting the club blessed / exorcised would be one of the first things I would do, at this stage I'm willing to try anything :confused:

paddy1875
11-04-2016, 09:25 AM
I bought a Irish tartan scarf, was wearing it week in week out, never seen us lose with it on. My future wife wore it one night going out for dinner to which I said 'that's my lucky scarf, take it off now or you'll ruin our season! She looked at me and said don't be silly you Wee laddie. We've been struggling ever since. TART

Coco Bryce
11-04-2016, 09:30 AM
I bought a Irish tartan scarf, was wearing it week in week out, never seen us lose with it on. My future wife wore it one night going out for dinner to which I said 'that's my lucky scarf, take it off now or you'll ruin our season! She looked at me and said don't be silly you Wee laddie. We've been struggling ever since. TART

:tee hee:

mim
11-04-2016, 09:34 AM
Our biggest problem is that we are totally predictable.
The teams that we were easily getting the better of have adjusted tactically to counter our style of play.
Credit to opposition coaches. Black mark for Stubbs.

Forza Fred
11-04-2016, 09:36 AM
When we went down and the over excited ones trumpeted that we would go straight back up, the lesser naive ones suggested we would be in this division for a good while longer.

So it has came to pass, and very few can now have absolute confidence that we will go up this time.

I have a view that has not been offered on here, and that is that the psychological effect of having Sevco in the league this season also affected us mentally.

Maybe I'm clutching at straws but this is the reason that NEXT season, I can see us romp away with this backwater division

mmmmhibby
11-04-2016, 09:36 AM
People who believe there is some sort of "curse" on Hibs needs there heads looked at. Thats all.

Thecat23
11-04-2016, 09:39 AM
People who believe there is some sort of "curse" on Hibs needs there heads looked at. Thats all.

People who don't believe will have a hex put on them by the people who do!!

hibs0666
11-04-2016, 09:39 AM
Got to love the tactically naive-type comments especially when pretty much none have the first clue about the basics never mind tactics.

That aside, I'm sure that even all of our tactics gurus would acknowledge the importance of confidence and belief to elite performance. Wins on Tuesday and Saturday be a huge confidence boost and I have no doubt that the tactically-naive Stubbs will be putting a lot of emphasis on confidence and morale-building in the coming days and weeks.

hibs0666
11-04-2016, 09:41 AM
When we went down and the over excited ones trumpeted that we would go straight back up, the lesser naive ones suggested we would be in this division for a good while longer.

So it has came to pass, and very few can now have absolute confidence that we will go up this time.

I have a view that has not been offered on here, and that is that the psychological effect of having Sevco in the league this season also affected us mentally.

Maybe I'm clutching at straws but this is the reason that NEXT season, I can see us romp away with this backwater division

And very few can have confidence that we will stay down, unless they are losers of course.

Wilson
11-04-2016, 09:45 AM
The transfer moves in January haven't worked. Injuries haven't helped. Stubbs inability to make changes to positively affect a game has been a problem long term. The players seem to have lost a bit of swagger.

Cumulative.

steviehibsleith
11-04-2016, 09:49 AM
A team that doesnt concede goals doesn't lose
We have conceded 30 goals in 31 league games (basically a goal a game) playing in Scotlands second tier and have lost 8 out of 31 games a quarter of them.
The common denominators in our appalling defense for years has been Lewis Stevenson and Paul Hanlon
Blame midfielders, forwards, Goalie, manager they have all been changed but 50 percent of our defence hasnt and any team playing against us is confident they can get a goal.

hibs0666
11-04-2016, 09:57 AM
A team that doesnt concede goals doesn't lose
We have conceded 30 goals in 31 league games (basically a goal a game) playing in Scotlands second tier and have lost 8 out of 31 games a quarter of them.
The common denominators in our appalling defense for years has been Lewis Stevenson and Paul Hanlon
Blame midfielders, forwards, Goalie, manager they have all been changed but 50 percent of our defence hasnt and any team playing against us is confident they can get a goal.

I'm glad that the blame culture doesn't extend to the club.

SJM
11-04-2016, 09:59 AM
Fraser Fyvie getting injured.

Forza Fred
11-04-2016, 10:00 AM
And very few can have confidence that we will stay down, unless they are losers of course.

They hardly have any control over the outcome though, do they.

Ozyhibby
11-04-2016, 10:02 AM
A team that doesnt concede goals doesn't lose
We have conceded 30 goals in 31 league games (basically a goal a game) playing in Scotlands second tier and have lost 8 out of 31 games a quarter of them.
The common denominators in our appalling defense for years has been Lewis Stevenson and Paul Hanlon
Blame midfielders, forwards, Goalie, manager they have all been changed but 50 percent of our defence hasnt and any team playing against us is confident they can get a goal.

Sevco have conceded 27 goals to our 30.
They have scored 83 to our 48.
You really think our problem lies in defence?

CorrieHibs
11-04-2016, 10:05 AM
A team that doesnt concede goals doesn't lose
We have conceded 30 goals in 31 league games (basically a goal a game) playing in Scotlands second tier and have lost 8 out of 31 games a quarter of them.
The common denominators in our appalling defense for years has been Lewis Stevenson and Paul Hanlon
Blame midfielders, forwards, Goalie, manager they have all been changed but 50 percent of our defence hasnt and any team playing against us is confident they can get a goal.

We had the best defence in Britain at one point. Our problems isn't our defence.

It's clearly not being able to break teams down. Same as last season. We simply don't score enough.

neil7908
11-04-2016, 10:05 AM
When we went down and the over excited ones trumpeted that we would go straight back up, the lesser naive ones suggested we would be in this division for a good while longer.

So it has came to pass, and very few can now have absolute confidence that we will go up this time.

I have a view that has not been offered on here, and that is that the psychological effect of having Sevco in the league this season also affected us mentally.

Maybe I'm clutching at straws but this is the reason that NEXT season, I can see us romp away with this backwater division

I agree having The Rangers around has had a big impact on us this season (in terms of competition but also mentally as well). However, I just feel the longer we are down here the more likely we are to get stuck in the longer term.

Failure this season and we will have Dundee Utd as competition (almost certainly) and then a number of options involving of Falkirk/Raith/Kilmarnock/Hamilton.

Yes we should have nothing to fear from those teams but we will undoubtedly lose players this summer if we dont go up and will we have the same size of budget next year? I wouldn't be so sure of that.

We would be heavy favourites in this division next year but if you look at our form, its against the likes of Alloa, Dumbarton, Morton etc we are struggling. Our record against the better teams in this league (including Hearts least year and Sevco this year) is ok, if not great.

We would find the same tactics used against us next season. I partially subscribe to the idea that we have a team set up play in the SPL rather than the Championship. That doesn't mean we need to sign a bunch of 6"4 cloggers but we need to understand the tactics we will face and set ourselves up accordingly.

Seems simple but we haven't managed it so far!

coldingham hibs
11-04-2016, 10:06 AM
Our failure to sign a big target man after Farid got injured and not signing a proper winger.

ShinyFantastic
11-04-2016, 10:07 AM
It started going wrong results wise when we let Malonga go. However the performances were starting to fade and let's be honest if we hadn't let Malonga go, we probably would have found another way to throw everything away.

lapsedhibee
11-04-2016, 10:08 AM
Missing sitters
END OF

steviehibsleith
11-04-2016, 10:09 AM
Sevco have conceded 27 goals to our 30.
They have scored 83 to our 48.
You really think our problem lies in defence?

Way they play two of there defenders Tavernier and Wallace have scored 19 between them.They attack and play to score more than they concede Warburtons way.

Thats just goals how many assists do they also have they play like wingers.

coldingham hibs
11-04-2016, 10:11 AM
Stubbs making 7 changes in the home game against Alloa, won the game but the players who were dropped haven't kicked a ball since.

Ozyhibby
11-04-2016, 10:25 AM
Way they play two of there defenders Tavernier and Wallace have scored 19 between them.They attack and play to score more than they concede Warburtons way.

Thats just goals how many assists do they also have they play like wingers.

How many goals do Stevenson and Gray have? How many assists?

steviehibsleith
11-04-2016, 10:29 AM
How many goals do Stevenson and Gray have? How many assists?
2 one goal each no idea about assists

NAE NOOKIE
11-04-2016, 10:31 AM
People who believe there is some sort of "curse" on Hibs needs there heads looked at. Thats all.

If you play Turnbull's Tornados backwards it says 'Hibs are cursed' 'Hibs are cursed' ....... fact :aok: :witch:

JimBHibees
11-04-2016, 10:33 AM
Sevco have conceded 27 goals to our 30.
They have scored 83 to our 48.
You really think our problem lies in defence?

Absolutely a factor, we concede every second shot on target, yes we need to score more but games would be a heck of a lot easier if we werent losing goals every game. We were 3 down to Dumbarton who hadnt scored a goal in 7 games before that.

mutley
11-04-2016, 10:38 AM
IMHO I think that we put too much emphasis on the cup games, when we should have concentrated on the league.


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Ozyhibby
11-04-2016, 10:38 AM
2 one goal each no idea about assists

So it would probably be better to play with wing backs rather than asking a couple of full backs to fill in?

Lago
11-04-2016, 10:56 AM
Beating Hearts in the cup replay, everyone thought, me included, that Hibs would go on from strenght to strength, in fact it resulted in complete and unfounded over confidence, a veneer which hid many problems.

mmmmhibby
11-04-2016, 10:56 AM
So it would probably be better to play with wing backs rather than asking a couple of full backs to fill in?

For me, as we play in the 2nd tier of Scottish football playing with width is a must, however we have persisted with a shape that's easy to play against plus the fact there is no cutting edge whatsoever from either side of the pitch, mainly due our full backs having no confidence when in possession of the football. The lack of width in our team has never been addressed for years by manager after manager after manager. Why????

Golden Bear
11-04-2016, 11:01 AM
For me, as we play in the 2nd tier of Scottish football playing with width is a must, however we have persisted with a shape that's easy to play against plus the fact there is no cutting edge whatsoever from either side of the pitch, mainly due our full backs having no confidence when in possession of the football. The lack of width in our team has never been addressed for years by manager after manager after manager. Why????

:agree:

We all can see that so it mystifies me why the supposed experts can't.

Apart from everything else, playing with pace & width increases the entertainment value.

mmmmhibby
11-04-2016, 11:09 AM
:agree:

We all can see that so it mystifies me why the supposed experts can't.

Apart from everything else, playing with pace & width increases the entertainment value.

Spot on, its seems a dawn of "ACCEPTISM" has indoctrined some of our fans. We have many players who could be construed as bang-average, theres no point in singling out players for criticism, however, telling it like it is has somehow become very unpopular in modern times. People choosing to deceive themselves for piece of mind or arguably political correctness need to wake up, only facing up to harsh realities will. Our Team is Gash.

Alfred E Newman
11-04-2016, 11:21 AM
As someone else has said, asking Stevenson and Gray to play a role that they can't fulfill.

WeeRussell
11-04-2016, 11:37 AM
It started going wrong in the eighties when our managerial revolving door was installed. A manager needs to be the foundation that a team is built around and not the decoration that gets redone for cosmetic purposes. The players need to know that it's their arse on the line come kick-off and not the managers. We need a club that backs the manager through thick and thin and send out the message that no player is bigger than the team. Since Bosnan individual players have ruled the roost, that can't work at small clubs like ours. Get the right manager in and stick with him.

Fair enough - but do you think we've got the "right manager" just now and therefore should stick with him?

Just wondering (I am very much not in the 'Stubbs out' camp).

Gatecrasher
11-04-2016, 11:42 AM
We've been having the same conversations for well over a year now. We need to inject some pace and width into the team, We've been struggling to score goals since Stubbs took over, the diamond doesn't work against teams who sit back, we don't score enough. IMO all the warning signs have been there for a long time but results against poor teams papered over the cracks until the **** finally hit the fan. We always struggled against the better championship clubs, Falkirk, Raith and Qots and these games showed our failings and the rest of the championship caught on to this.

Keith_M
11-04-2016, 11:59 AM
You missed out:



Petrie
Building the East Stand
It's the Fans' fault
We paid all our bills and only spent what we could afford, instead of overspending then dumping the debt

lyonhibs
11-04-2016, 12:04 PM
The same as it always is (apart from under Butcher when we just had criminally poor players starting).

Teams have worked out how to play against us and our management team doesn't have the gumption or vision (I mean literally - do they watch what happens on the pitch?) to change/adapt our style of play/starting XI.

seanshow
11-04-2016, 12:24 PM
Stubbs making 7 changes in the home game against Alloa, won the game but the players who were dropped haven't kicked a ball since.

I agree with your point, and the others mentioning the victory against Hearts and over confidence.

When we beat Alloa that day, we had the best stats in Europe! 27 games, 1 defeat. ( but we were still 5 points behind Rangers, that has to have an effect on the players minds as well)
The players stopped working as hard front to back in the next game against Morton we underestimated their attacking style and lost 3 nil.

Its then up to Stubbs to motivate the team back to the previous form, which he has failed to do for 6 weeks.


Fwiw
I couldn't give a flying **** about retrospective jinxes,curses, or what Hibs managers of the last 5/10 years has achieved.

That's all yamish bs.

Diclonius
11-04-2016, 12:43 PM
Stubbs' tactics haven't drastically changed since our record breaking sequence of wins/games undefeated earlier this season. The players have lost confidence ever since the disastrous 0-3 v Morton and haven't recovered.

Stubbs' refusal to change things may be a problem, but we should be winning games in spite of our formation/players.

Martymck
11-04-2016, 01:15 PM
Spot on, its seems a dawn of "ACCEPTISM" has indoctrined some of our fans. We have many players who could be construed as bang-average, theres no point in singling out players for criticism, however, telling it like it is has somehow become very unpopular in modern times. People choosing to deceive themselves for piece of mind or arguably political correctness need to wake up, only facing up to harsh realities will. Our Team is Gash.
get a grip man.

Hibby 2005
11-04-2016, 01:34 PM
It's the usual end of season slump with the added bonus of Cup runs to raise our hopes :greengrin

G B Young
11-04-2016, 01:34 PM
Something I didn't flag up in the poll options was the loss of Scott Allan as he barely played for us this season before being sold. However, based on my observations the team has never quite recaptured the more flowing style of play we enjoyed when Allan was at the heart of the midfield. We enjoyed a few more big wins last season, scoring four, five and six goals on occasion and the high point was probably the 4-0 demolition of sevco where Allan was superb. I also recall a less high profile game towards the end of the season when we beat Alloa 4-0 and the overall team display that day was excellent. Allan was again instrumental, but Jordon Forster was also very influential. If you'd told me that a year later we'd actually lose to such opposition it would have been hard to believe. Highly as I rate McGinn, Henderson and McGeouch I'm just not sure the team has gelled fully this term even when we were winning games regularly.

mmmmhibby
11-04-2016, 02:18 PM
get a grip man.

There yi go....brilliant.

cabbageandribs1875
11-04-2016, 02:35 PM
Our biggest problem is that we are totally predictable.
The teams that we were easily getting the better of have adjusted tactically to counter our style of play.
Credit to opposition coaches. Black mark for Stubbs.


this

SJM
11-04-2016, 02:38 PM
this

Since Falkirk in the semi we have lacked any plan b as exposed off Rangers in the playoffs too. It's not working yet we still set up the same. Crazy. Martinez like you could say.

hibs0666
11-04-2016, 03:44 PM
Our biggest problem is that we are totally predictable.
The teams that we were easily getting the better of have adjusted tactically to counter our style of play.
Credit to opposition coaches. Black mark for Stubbs.

What were the tactical adjustments that these teams made in order to tactically befuddle us? What I see most weeks is Hibs making, and failing to take, a barrowload of chances whilst the other mob somehow scoring from the few chances that they make.

This notion of some wonderful tactical master plan is way over-rated IMHO.

Onion
11-04-2016, 03:59 PM
Lost confidence in Stubbs tactics, each other and themselves.

My_Wife_Camille
11-04-2016, 04:05 PM
Cummings missing the open goal at home to Morton. Something changed that very moment, who knows what?

emerald green
11-04-2016, 06:09 PM
Fraser Fyvie getting injured.

One player getting injured doesn't explain, and is no reason or excuse, for the slump we have witnessed at Hibs.

Every team suffers injuries, including The Rangers, but it hasn't stopped them walking away with this awful league.

FWIW I really don't know where things went wrong at ER this season. As I've posted elsewhere, I cannot get my head around it. Guessing, I would say it's a combination of several factors. The obvious one is that the team simply don't score enough goals.

That said, I don't think we will know the full facts until this season is over, and it's known whether Hibs are going up or staying down.

eezyrider
11-04-2016, 06:27 PM
Where's the option for being side tracked by cup runs?

If we had been dumped out of both cups early doors I'm certain we would still be firing on all cylinders.

EZ

Smartie
11-04-2016, 07:01 PM
One player getting injured doesn't explain, and is no reason or excuse, for the slump we have witnessed at Hibs.

Every team suffers injuries, including The Rangers, but it hasn't stopped them walking away with this awful league.

FWIW I really don't know where things went wrong at ER this season. As I've posted elsewhere, I cannot get my head around it. Guessing, I would say it's a combination of several factors. The obvious one is that the team simply don't score enough goals.

That said, I don't think we will know the full facts until this season is over, and it's known whether Hibs are going up or staying down.

McGeouch is a massive loss - if we were to put it down to just one player's injury then I'd say it was his.

But the combination of both McGeouch and Fyvie being missing (compounded further when Hanlon went on to miss a few games) has definitely had an influence.

We can actually play the diamond quite well with these guys in the team.

All of the options have contributed but it has been Stubbs' inability tactically to find a cohesive game plan that brings the best out of our remaining (and not exactly short of talent) players that has contributed most.

PiemanP
11-04-2016, 07:46 PM
We've not been the same since marathonbet started waving their cash around and poached Tom Zanelli. I used to love outside the box too.

Colr
11-04-2016, 08:57 PM
What would you say was the key reason for the alarming decline in our form over the last few weeks?

Something to do with an Irish gypsy and the harp on the main stand