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Thecat23
10-04-2016, 10:31 PM
Right going in a different direction here for the ones who want Stubbs out.

Would you instead take a director of football someone who has had experience in the game has maybe done well but not looking to train or coach a team but more manage the players so Stubbs can do the coaching side?

Maybe even help him with players coming in or trying to improve Stubbs as a coach since he's a rookie so to speak.

Just say for example Strachan until the season is finished, could or would this work for us or is it still punt/keep?

Ozyhibby
10-04-2016, 10:44 PM
Isn't that George Craig's job?


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HappyAsHellas
10-04-2016, 10:55 PM
Not too sure about the role of a director of football. Who has the final say? When they installed Levein he informed a journalist that his duties were recruitment, formation and tactics - to me, the managers job. Stubbs seems to like Doolan as his number 2 but they either both agree on everything tactically or Stubbs just ignores him. I think if he could get an advisor who knows the game up here it might be beneficial, but it all depends on whether he'll take advice on board and act accordingly - something he seems very reluctant to do. Are there any clubs who have had continued success solely through the appointment of a DOF? I'm not aware of any but would be interested to find out.

So in answer to your question, I don't have a clue!

Dr Jimmy
10-04-2016, 11:38 PM
Right going in a different direction here for the ones who want Stubbs out.

Would you instead take a director of football someone who has had experience in the game has maybe done well but not looking to train or coach a team but more manage the players so Stubbs can do the coaching side?

Maybe even help him with players coming in or trying to improve Stubbs as a coach since he's a rookie so to speak.

Just say for example Strachan until the season is finished, could or would this work for us or is it still punt/keep?

Did we not try that route with Jim Duffy when we got Billy McNeil in as DOF?
I just think Stubbs is out of his depth and is getting found out. We should be going for an experienced manager not someone Stubbs can lean on.

oconnors_strip
10-04-2016, 11:48 PM
Isn't that George Craig's job?


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His role is head of football operations, totally different to a director of football

Forza Fred
10-04-2016, 11:50 PM
Keep the accountability squarely with the manager.

Why pay two people basically to do one person' job?

I can't remember a time when we had MORE back room staff.....and we still get beat by Part Time Posties and Plumbers Athletic, so perhaps we should downsize assistance instead of increase it.

The way things are going, we may be financially forced to cut numbers.

Sometimes Less equals More!

MWHIBBIES
10-04-2016, 11:59 PM
Keep the accountability squarely with the manager.

Why pay two people basically to do one person' job?

I can't remember a time when we had MORE back room staff.....and we still get beat by Part Time Posties and Plumbers Athletic, so perhaps we should downsize assistance instead of increase it.

The way things are going, we may be financially forced to cut numbers.

Sometimes Less equals More!This notion always makes me laugh, every successful team in the world have 15/20 people working along side the manager in various roles. One of the things we have undoubtedly done correct since Leeann came on was hiring a qualified and experienced backroom staff to form a solid foundation.

Forza Fred
11-04-2016, 12:43 AM
This notion always makes me laugh, every successful team in the world have 15/20 people working along side the manager in various roles. One of the things we have undoubtedly done correct since Leeann came on was hiring a qualified and experienced backroom staff to form a solid foundation.

Forgive me if I also have chuckle, because that solid foundation appears not to be producing the required results.

MWHIBBIES
11-04-2016, 12:52 AM
Forgive me if I also have chuckle, because that solid foundation appears not to be producing the required results.What kind of club abandons everything after 6/7 poor results?

We had 18 months of good solid progress under the current regime, 6/7 bad results might eventually spell the end for Stubbs but we would be wrong to ignore and abandon all the good things we have managed to get done while he has been at the club. A good coaching staff is mandatory in todays game.

Forza Fred
11-04-2016, 02:15 AM
What kind of club abandons everything after 6/7 poor results?

We had 18 months of good solid progress under the current regime, 6/7 bad results might eventually spell the end for Stubbs but we would be wrong to ignore and abandon all the good things we have managed to get done while he has been at the club. A good coaching staff is mandatory in todays game.

It is indeed.

Whether we have one is subject to conjecture,and will I guess be decided at the end of the season.

lyonhibs
11-04-2016, 06:36 AM
What kind of club abandons everything after 6/7 poor results?

We had 18 months of good solid progress under the current regime, 6/7 bad results might eventually spell the end for Stubbs but we would be wrong to ignore and abandon all the good things we have managed to get done while he has been at the club. A good coaching staff is mandatory in todays game.

"Good" and "numerous" aren't the same thing though. If all the experts and sports scientists can't get motivate/prepare the players to beat Alloa then what's the point?

Willing to hold off permanent judgement until the end of the season because we COULD still get promoted and win the SC. Time for the "excellent" backroom staff to earn their corn.

greenpaper55
11-04-2016, 07:13 AM
Wee broony is doing nothing just now and he's a man who's been places !

Andy74
11-04-2016, 08:01 AM
His role is head of football operations, totally different to a director of football

It's not totally different. The current set up should already allow for Stubbs to concentrate on coaching the first team.

Andy74
11-04-2016, 08:02 AM
This notion always makes me laugh, every successful team in the world have 15/20 people working along side the manager in various roles. One of the things we have undoubtedly done correct since Leeann came on was hiring a qualified and experienced backroom staff to form a solid foundation.

Even I'm getting bored of the solid foundation thing. At what point will we see some benefit?

Thecat23
11-04-2016, 08:06 AM
It's not totally different. The current set up should already allow for Stubbs to concentrate on coaching the first team.

Actually it's very different to the role of Director Of Football Andy.

J-C
11-04-2016, 08:11 AM
Even I'm getting bored of the solid foundation thing. At what point will we see some benefit?


:agree: No point in having a solid foundation if the manager aint good enough.

We've tried a young promising coach approach and it's not worked out, time for a proven manager, one that has success and I don't mean like a one season wonder like Butcher, I d like us to push the boat a bit further and go for a fairly big name, even a foreigner.

Andy74
11-04-2016, 08:13 AM
Actually it's very different to the role of Director Of Football Andy.

Not I think in the sense of what you were talking about, letting him concentrate on coaching, helping with players coming in and so on.

Craig has gone to great pains to say he is not a Director of Football but his remit is very similar to what that would entail. We also have a head of recruitment.

Thecat23
11-04-2016, 08:22 AM
Not I think I'm the sense of what you were talking about, letting him concentrate on coaching, helping with players coming in and so on.

Craig has gone to great pains to say he is not a Director of Football but his remit is very similar to what that would entail. We also have a head of recruitment.

Ah right I see what you mean now. Yeah Craig is there to also help Stubbs with recruitment, I was meaning someone in to help advise him on the football side of things.

I've no idea myself if that would work it was just something me and a friend were chatting about and wondered what others may think.

Brightside
11-04-2016, 08:26 AM
Actually it's very different to the role of Director Of Football Andy.

BUT Stubbs one and only job is Head Coach of the First Team.

Andy74
11-04-2016, 08:28 AM
BUT Stubbs one and only job is Head Coach of the First Team.

He also has a couple of very experienced guys helping him on that front.

When you need more than that then you're just not up to it as yet.

J-C
11-04-2016, 08:39 AM
He also has a couple of very experienced guys helping him on that front.

When you need more than that then you're just not up to it as yet.


They are experienced but all 3 are experienced in youth coaching, not one has even coached or managed at senior level, maybe this is proving their downfall, experience when it really matters.

Brightside
11-04-2016, 08:42 AM
He also has a couple of very experienced guys helping him on that front.

When you need more than that then you're just not up to it as yet.

Ive said it before but i really think we have built a team to compete in the premier league - that just doesn't help up in this league. Its a damn shame but we have to chuck the tippy tappy out the window for a while and just go at team 100 miles an hour and hammer them.

lyonhibs
11-04-2016, 08:50 AM
Ive said it before but i really think we have built a team to compete in the premier league - that just doesn't help up in this league. Its a damn shame but we have to chuck the tippy tappy out the window for a while and just go at team 100 miles an hour and hammer them.

As tippy tappy has got our "team to compete in the Premier League" nowhere, I don't think a switch to a more aggressive and productive style that might bring about you know, a few victories, would be a damn shame at all.

Whether Stubbs has the a) awareness to realise a change is - and has been for weeks - desperately needed and b) skills and savvy to implement that change is very much in doubt however.

J-C
11-04-2016, 08:50 AM
Ive said it before but i really think we have built a team to compete in the premier league - that just doesn't help up in this league. Its a damn shame but we have to chuck the tippy tappy out the window for a while and just go at team 100 miles an hour and hammer them.


:agree: Fast paced 1 and 2 touch attacking football, not slow tippy tappy possession, I watched Leicester yesterday, I think someone should show their games to Stubbs to show him the way.

Thecat23
11-04-2016, 08:58 AM
BUT Stubbs one and only job is Head Coach of the First Team.

I know this, that's why I asked would be better having someone in who's got experience to help him. Was just a thought nothing more nothing less.

eastmainsmsh
11-04-2016, 09:01 AM
Could do a lot worse than bring in Murdo McLeod to help Stubbs

J-C
11-04-2016, 09:04 AM
I know this, that's why I asked would be better having someone in who's got experience to help him. Was just a thought nothing more nothing less.



Would that then not undermine Leann's decision to hire Stubbs in the first place, it would be seen as her accepting the fact her choice was wrong. We've taken another punt on an up and coming youth coach with a good name in footballing circles but this time he didn't have the luxury of having the quality of players Mowbray had, nor the tactical nous.

Ozyhibby
11-04-2016, 09:10 AM
What kind of club abandons everything after 6/7 poor results?

We had 18 months of good solid progress under the current regime, 6/7 bad results might eventually spell the end for Stubbs but we would be wrong to ignore and abandon all the good things we have managed to get done while he has been at the club. A good coaching staff is mandatory in todays game.

This is not about 6/7 poor results. People who have been paying attention could see we have not been scoring enough goals for all of those 18 months of good solid progress you mention.
The amount of 1-0 and 2-1 victories we were getting was actually very poor considering the opposition we are playing. The problem was, every time it was brought up, you would be shouted down by the '1-0 every week will do me' brigade.
This has been a long term problem.

Thecat23
11-04-2016, 09:13 AM
Would that then not undermine Leann's decision to hire Stubbs in the first place, it would be seen as her accepting the fact her choice was wrong. We've taken another punt on an up and coming youth coach with a good name in footballing circles but this time he didn't have the luxury of having the quality of players Mowbray had, nor the tactical nous.

I'm not sure it would. But then I don't know if a DOF is the answer anyway. It was one of many things that couple of us were chatting about. He may well get us up anyway without any help.

Forza Fred
11-04-2016, 10:38 AM
This is not about 6/7 poor results. People who have been paying attention could see we have not been scoring enough goals for all of those 18 months of good solid progress you mention.
The amount of 1-0 and 2-1 victories we were getting was actually very poor considering the opposition we are playing. The problem was, every time it was brought up, you would be shouted down by the '1-0 every week will do me' brigade.
This has been a long term problem.

:agree:

Sammy7nil
11-04-2016, 12:10 PM
Keep the accountability squarely with the manager.

Why pay two people basically to do one person' job?

I can't remember a time when we had MORE back room staff.....and we still get beat by Part Time Posties and Plumbers Athletic, so perhaps we should downsize assistance instead of increase it.

The way things are going, we may be financially forced to cut numbers.

Sometimes Less equals More!

We currently have several Director and Admin People from Lee-Ann and Rod down.
It would be interesting to see if we have 2 people doing the same job and how much they take out of the club?

CropleyWasGod
11-04-2016, 12:14 PM
We currently have several Director and Admin People from Lee-Ann and Rod down.
It would be interesting to see if we have 2 people doing the same job and how much they take out of the club?

Only 2 of our directors, Leeann and Jamie Marwick, are paid.

Forza Fred
11-04-2016, 12:18 PM
We currently have several Director and Admin People from Lee-Ann and Rod down.
It would be interesting to see if we have 2 people doing the same job and how much they take out of the club?

My comment was made in regard to the footballing side of things.

However, if we stay down it may well be that a degree of restructuring will be considered necessary, as crowds may drop and resistance to paying Premier League prices probably increases.

Should we not go up, it would be appropriate to review what we did good, what needs changing and tweak the structure accordingly, rather than just maintain the status quo...if things are not working, they are usually not working for a reason.

Costs though, may dictate what we can carry.