What is the answer?

[Diclonius]

Posted this on the PM board but it's just as relevant here?

I genuinely can't see what will improve our season. We have a rot at this club that goes far deeper than the manager, players or executives.

Look at out recent history - sacked Hughes and replaced with manager who had track record in England? Same ****. Sacked him and replaced by manager who had won titles on a low budget? Same ****. Sacked him and replaced him with a manager who had a proven record in the division we were in at the time? Relegated from mid-range.

Now we've had our chairman take a step back (who we all previously assumed was the problem) and consistently spent money on the subsequently appointed manager to build a team we thought could challenge not only in this division but the division above. The result? Same ****.

Serious questions now have to be raised about Stubbs and I think if we fail to be promoted or win the Cup then he should go. But what realistically will change? Countless proven managers have come here and done **** all - we're about the only team in Scotland who DOESN'T ever get the "new manager" upturn in form!

I genuinely don't see how we will get ourselves out of this mess - regardless of what happens with our current manager. Nothing has changed in nine years no matter what we have tried.

[IberianHibernian]

Every team has ups and downs ( Aberdeen have improved after several years when they were worse than us for example ) whoever is manager . We sacked or hounded out last 2 managers who took us to Europe while ex managers who are remembered as successful with Hibs also had ups and downs ( decline leading to relegation in 1980 started with Turnbull , Mowbray hasn`t done much since leaving us ) . Maybe changes are not always the answer .

[DH1875]

Every team has ups and downs ( Aberdeen have improved after several years when they were worse than us for example ) whoever is manager . We sacked or hounded out last 2 managers who took us to Europe while ex managers who are remembered as successful with Hibs also had ups and downs ( decline leading to relegation in 1980 started with Turnbull , Mowbray hasn`t done much since leaving us ) . Maybe changes are not always the answer .

Aberdeen never fell this low and sorry, if Falkirk hump us in the playoffs then Stubbs has to go.

[Aldo]

Aberdeen never fell this low and sorry, if Falkirk hump us in the playoffs then Stubbs has to go.

If Falkirk beat us next week then he should go! No he should go now!

[IberianHibernian]

Aberdeen never fell this low and sorry, if Falkirk hump us in the playoffs then Stubbs has to go. May be right about Aberdeen but they`ve been near relegation some years and been knocked out of cups by lower league teams ( ourselves included ) loads of times in recent years . Agree that manager`s position should be looked at after playoffs .

[AFKA5814_Hibs]

Aberdeen never fell this low and sorry, if Falkirk hump us in the playoffs then Stubbs has to go.

We might not get as far as playing Falkirk in the play offs.

[tamig]

Stubbs has generally had success when he's played a 3-5-2. Why the hell he hasn't reverted to that over the last 5 or 6 weeks only he will know. It's a mystery to me. He should have done it weeks ago and I'm sure we'd have been clear in second spot by now.

[GreenCastle]

Over the years our issues have been more than the manager. Basically a useless board with zero ambition.

Stubbs isn't a complete dud but he does seem to be creating big problems for himself.

Formation and players are the basic issues.

He has stuck by a formation which doesn't work and played players out of form and his favourites.

We were doing fine till xmas time when we made some bad moves in the transfer window and losing Malonga and injuries to key players hasn't helped either.

We find ourselves in the toughest and most important part of the season in horrendous form and lacking confidence.

[My_Wife_Camille]

The answer is Stubbs Out

[GreenCastle]

Who would replace Stubbs ?

[My_Wife_Camille]

Who would replace Stubbs ?
Literally anybody

[MWHIBBIES]

Literally anybodyYeah, that will help.

[GreenCastle]

Literally anybody

Need some names please..

A realistic top 5 who will improve us?

[Penicuik Hibee]

Stubbs hasn't become a bad manager and we still have some god players. Definitely good enough to do the job. Remember how good we were first half v hearts

But we have become so predictable. Wasn't there today but against Livingston, until Boyle came on, I could never see us scoring.

When we were going well our full backs were giving us some width but both Gray and Stevenson seem to have lost any attacking threat.

Something has to change. I liked us last season when we played 3-5-2 with Boyle playing as one of the attacking full backs. We seemed to score a few more goals playing like that. This season, even when we were winning, it was a slog. You can't win every game easily, but we have hardly won any like that.

i hope today gives everyone the kick up the backside and we can get back on track. So frustrated and disappointed after today

[IberianHibernian]

I don`t think we should change manager till the end of the season but if changing now has to be an experienced manager who`ll make instant impact . What about ex Ireland and Faroes manager Brian Kerr ? Experience with national teams means he`s used to working short intensive periods with squads . Is John Blackley still involved in coaching ? Danny Lennon ? Looking for someone for 6 weeks then get new manager for next season .

[SON OF PADDY]

Not a happy hibby by any means!
But all this " let's sack Stubbs **** "
makes no sense right now.
Yes we're all hurting badly !!
But now is not the time, the players need to get their heads up and get back to winning ways.
We have a massive game on Tuesday against Falkirk that we simply must win and I believe that we will, then Saturday's semi against a United team that's well beatable.

Keep the faith guys.

[IberianHibernian]

Not a happy hibby by any means!
But all this " let's sack Stubbs **** "
makes no sense right now.
Yes we're all hurting badly !!
But now is not the time, the players need to get their heads up and get back to winning ways.
We have a massive game on Tuesday against Falkirk that we simply must win and I believe that we will, then Saturday's semi against a United team that's well beatable.

Keep the faith guys. Agree . Our best performances this season have been against premier teams so hopefully we`ll recover form against strong teams in next 3 matches .

[Alfred E Newman]

Who would replace Stubbs ?
This guy would be an improvement.


16367

[Nicho87]

Said in another thread. 4-3-3 high pressure. Best form of defence is attack for this team

[Scooter]

I think the problem I'm seeing is like previous managers it's his reluctance to change things. Everyman and there dug has seen this diamond hasn't worked for weeks and we have been sussed out. Both hearts and The Rangers pissed this league with pace and width but we play narrow and no pace

[My_Wife_Camille]

Need some names please..

A realistic top 5 who will improve us?
My Dad
His Dad
My Girlfriends Dad
My Girlfriend
Danderhall Hibs

[SON OF PADDY]

Couldn't upload my photos !!
It's a age thing you know. :-(

[hibby6270]

Whatever the answer is, we, the supporters and fans, don't have it.

Yes - we all have our opinions, be they good or bad, positive or negative, but that's all they are - just opinions.

As a club, we all expect. It's just so, so sad that this current team and countless number of teams from the past whip us up into a mild frenzy that things are looking good, then they bring us back down to earth with a shuddering thud.

In some ways, I'm thinking relative mediocrity in mid table of the Premiership, neither threatening for a title or looking like being relegated, (like the Fenlon years for example with an odd cup semi or final thrown in) is a far more appealing prospect than having to put up with the current situation.

Sad thing is, that "ambition" is a long way off at the moment.

[SON OF PADDY]

My Dad
His Dad
My Girlfriends Dad
My Girlfriend
Danderhall Hibs


Mr Alan Stubbs.

[IberianHibernian]

Whatever the answer is, we, the supporters and fans, don't have it.

Yes - we all have our opinions, be they good or bad, positive or negative, but that's all they are - just opinions.

As a club, we all expect. It's just so, so sad that this current team and countless number of teams from the past whip us up into a mild frenzy that things are looking good, then they bring us back down to earth with a shuddering thud.

In some ways, I'm thinking relative mediocrity in mid table of the Premiership, neither threatening for a title or looking like being relegated, (like the Fenlon years for example with an odd cup semi or final thrown in) is a far more appealing prospect than having to put up with the current situation.

Sad thing is, that "ambition" is a long way off at the moment.Agree noone knows . In very short term priority is to win semi as final will mean a lot of cash . Returning to top league next and only then will longer - term stuff come into play though every new management team comes with promises of improvement in youth set up , fitness etc so I`ve long since stopped believing it . The same at other clubs - Aberdeen and Hearts on a relative high now , Dundee United and us the opposite but roles could be reversed in next year or two especially if clubs have to invest a lot in stadiums . As for Fenlon years , 2 SC finals in 2 years is more than " odd semi or final " and he left not long after an unbeaten run of about 10 matches in top league .

[Eyrie]

Mr Alan Stubbs.

Serious and competent suggestions only please.

[Thecat23]

The answer is simply cheat.

So many on here seem to want the Hearts way so **** it lets do it. Buy what we can't afford, win a cup or this league whatever comes first then go into admin, get saved start from scratch and we'll be 3rd in the Prem.

Simples really!!

[Ronniekirk]

Posted this on the PM board but it's just as relevant here?

I genuinely can't see what will improve our season. We have a rot at this club that goes far deeper than the manager, players or executives.

Look at out recent history - sacked Hughes and replaced with manager who had track record in England? Same ****. Sacked him and replaced by manager who had won titles on a low budget? Same ****. Sacked him and replaced him with a manager who had a proven record in the division we were in at the time? Relegated from mid-range.

Now we've had our chairman take a step back (who we all previously assumed was the problem) and consistently spent money on the subsequently appointed manager to build a team we thought could challenge not only in this division but the division above. The result? Same ****.

Serious questions now have to be raised about Stubbs and I think if we fail to be promoted or win the Cup then he should go. But what realistically will change? Countless proven managers have come here and done **** all - we're about the only team in Scotland who DOESN'T ever get the "new manager" upturn in form!

I genuinely don't see how we will get ourselves out of this mess - regardless of what happens with our current manager. Nothing has changed in nine years no matter what we have tried.

Only chance now is if Dylan get get fit for playoffs and stay fit and drive us forward
Fvfie Will be fitter and McGinn
needs to be fresher and find form he has shown in the cup
But Stubbs needs to work to work out whats going wrong up front and find a nd find a way to provide better service
Just throwing three up top without purpose doesnt work
Thought he may have stuck with Boyle Stokes and Keating's
Give a youngster a chance like Shaw for eg Has to worth a shot as Dagnal clearly cant score
Also find a way to score from corners as we ****ing get plenty
And while i am at it The ox needs to score a few

We debated last week if another Manager could get more from these players and most of us were confident we would win today and build momentum for the Falkirk game
I think Stubbs now needs to get them up for the next two games and show he can get them organised and motivated to win the next two games or the season could be over

The way we are playing Rairh must fancy they can pip us to third and beat us in first l play off games

Or maybe Stubbs is playing a blinder and it will all come together for the six play offs

[Beefster]

My Dad
His Dad
My Girlfriends Dad
My Girlfriend
Danderhall Hibs

There's no way Danderhall Hibs would improve results. Can't disagree with the rest though.

[erskine-hibby]

Get back to the 3-5-2 formation that had us winning games and playing great football. Ditch Stokes (didn't want him anyway), bring in Insall and get Jordan Forster back from Plymouth (if fit).

[hibby6270]

Agree noone knows . In very short term priority is to win semi as final will mean a lot of cash . Returning to top league next and only then will longer - term stuff come into play though every new management team comes with promises of improvement in youth set up , fitness etc so I`ve long since stopped believing it . The same at other clubs - Aberdeen and Hearts on a relative high now , Dundee United and us the opposite but roles could be reversed in next year or two especially if clubs have to invest a lot in stadiums . As for Fenlon years , 2 SC finals in 2 years is more than " odd semi or final " and he left not long after an unbeaten run of about 10 matches in top league .

At the time, many posters on here said Fenlon getting us to 2 Cup finals masked the mediocre performances we'd had in the league. To an extent that was true but at least it was mediocrity in the top league. That was the point I was trying to make. In a strange way I'd rather have that and repeat it regularly each season, compared to the position we are in now.

You may say that lacks ambition for a club this size but really, recent history tells us that's about all we are good for. I've been beaten into submission over 50 odd years to think this way. I don't want to and would dearly love things to be different. Sadly though reality always kicks in and wins.

[Big L]

I listened to Stubbs post interview and he sounds shell shocked! Right at this moment I really do believe that he can't get us up this season. So, if we want up this season, then he has to go, and I can only hope he does the right thing and resigns. I think we are now looking at 2 wins in the last 10. I have to think that Stubbs management style is to soft and that we need a hard git, someone who has experience in play offs, I know this won't be popular but MY CHOICE IS BILLY DAVIES. Give him it till the end of the season and lets see how he goes, he can't do worse.

[Famous Fiver]

No win situation for the Board.

They have backed Stubbs so heavily and prominently to ditch him now would be an admission of failure and chucking it for the season.

Appoint another no mark who doesn't rescue our season and they will get it even worse.

Leeanne has had the plaudits, wonder how she is going to play her cards, or is it Rod who is dealing the cards?

[SON OF PADDY]

Serious and competent suggestions only please.

And you're serious suggestion would be ?
As previously mentioned " keep the faith " Bro.

[JimmyL]

Strachan for me untill end of season

[Forza Fred]

I'm of the view that we have become predictable, and that teams no longer fear us, the way they do, say Sevco.

They know there is little chance of them getting a hiding from us, and that if they just park the bus, then it is inevitable that they will get a chance.

This season, I never expected us to romp to promotion, and so it has turned out...although both promotion and a cup victory are possible.

Unless we play with more width though, I see our crap results continuing, and if we achieve not, then come season's end Stubb's position needs to be considered.

I think, unfortunately for us, he has learned a lot about flexibility in approach in recent weeks, and will be a better managemer for it in future....unfortunately the lessons were learned at our expense.

He may be a good man manager, but I always thought that what we needed was not a manager learning the ropes, but a hard nosed experienced manager who had a kilometres on the dial.

Not saying Stubbsie should automatically go at the end of the season, but if our aim is to get out of this division, then it is logical we appoint someone who knows the course we are going over.

Not the most popular suggestion on this board, but if we are looking for a replacement then Peter Houston would be a logical candidate.

Yes, many on here see him as a scrotum holder, but he has done well with a Falkirk side which has much fewer resources than us.

But we also need a target man who REGULARLY scores goals.....strikers win you cups, get you promoted etc, even if the rest of the team is having an off day.p

[GreenLake]

Allen Iverson?

[eastcoasthibby]

Allen Iverson?

Stubbs only wants to play one way ..diamond..I don't believe that are actually coaching in us playing any other way !!! He tries to accommodate even though players aren't performing or can't play together.
Players are playing to the system he tells them...get on to the shooting and finishing for the next week.

[Colr]

Posted this on the PM board but it's just as relevant here?

I genuinely can't see what will improve our season. We have a rot at this club that goes far deeper than the manager, players or executives.

Look at out recent history - sacked Hughes and replaced with manager who had track record in England? Same ****. Sacked him and replaced by manager who had won titles on a low budget? Same ****. Sacked him and replaced him with a manager who had a proven record in the division we were in at the time? Relegated from mid-range.

Now we've had our chairman take a step back (who we all previously assumed was the problem) and consistently spent money on the subsequently appointed manager to build a team we thought could challenge not only in this division but the division above. The result? Same ****.

Serious questions now have to be raised about Stubbs and I think if we fail to be promoted or win the Cup then he should go. But what realistically will change? Countless proven managers have come here and done **** all - we're about the only team in Scotland who DOESN'T ever get the "new manager" upturn in form!

I genuinely don't see how we will get ourselves out of this mess - regardless of what happens with our current manager. Nothing has changed in nine years no matter what we have tried.

Is Alex Miller available?

[Eyrie]

And you're serious suggestion would be ?
As previously mentioned " keep the faith " Bro.

I don't expect Stubbs to be sacked, but if he is then McCall is the obvious choice given Dempster already knows him from Motherwell.

I've been "keeping the faith" with Hibs for close to fifty years, and will continue to do so for the next fifty plus (gods willing). Players and managers come and go, and if they're not doing well enough for Hibs then the sooner they're gone the better.

[Danderhall Hibs]

My Dad
His Dad
My Girlfriends Dad
My Girlfriend
Danderhall Hibs

I could do it part time until the end of the season?


There's no way Danderhall Hibs would improve results. Can't disagree with the rest though.

Doom and gloomers are already on my back - I've not even accepted it yet FFS.

[GreenCastle]

This week is pretty big for the club.


Win both and the feel good factor will be back.

Lose or draw Tuesday and I think it will be a 3rd finish. May as well rest players for playoffs.

Win Tuesday and lose Saturday we may as well try get 2nd and see where that takes us. Our only focus will then be on promotion.

Lose both and I will have serious worries about the rest of April and the playoffs.

[My_Wife_Camille]

There's no way Danderhall Hibs would improve results. Can't disagree with the rest though.
Maybe so, but in the post match interview he could just say he didn't remember losing which we all know then means it didn't happen!

[Danderhall Hibs]

Maybe so, but in the post match interview he could just say he didn't remember losing which we all know then means it didn't happen!

Tell you something I'd be as well taking the job - I'm already being quoted out of context. :greengrin

[gegs70]

I don't think sacking the manager is the answer, we should know that by now....

He's a young manager and he is getting experience....maybe sometimes he needs to take it back to basics. We are not scoring enough goals but recentley have lost a lot of goals.....

On a side note I'm worried that we haven't given our back up keeper enough game time with the cup game coming up....

[blackpoolhibs]

The answer is simply cheat.

So many on here seem to want the Hearts way so **** it lets do it. Buy what we can't afford, win a cup or this league whatever comes first then go into admin, get saved start from scratch and we'll be 3rd in the Prem.

Simples really!!

Quality, your man Butcher was a complete failure, so you put all your eggs in one basket (case) and then back Stubbs to the bitter end, even when he's done less than Butcher.

Now its cheat, do it the Hearts way. Quality real quality. :top marks

[lyonhibs]

Quality, your man Butcher was a complete failure, so you put all your eggs in one basket (case) and then back Stubbs to the bitter end, even when he's done less than Butcher.

Now its cheat, do it the Hearts way. Quality real quality. :top marks

Easy tiger, he's not got us relegated (yet).

[jacomo]

Posted this on the PM board but it's just as relevant here?

I genuinely can't see what will improve our season. We have a rot at this club that goes far deeper than the manager, players or executives.

Look at out recent history - sacked Hughes and replaced with manager who had track record in England? Same ****. Sacked him and replaced by manager who had won titles on a low budget? Same ****. Sacked him and replaced him with a manager who had a proven record in the division we were in at the time? Relegated from mid-range.

Now we've had our chairman take a step back (who we all previously assumed was the problem) and consistently spent money on the subsequently appointed manager to build a team we thought could challenge not only in this division but the division above. The result? Same ****.

Serious questions now have to be raised about Stubbs and I think if we fail to be promoted or win the Cup then he should go. But what realistically will change? Countless proven managers have come here and done **** all - we're about the only team in Scotland who DOESN'T ever get the "new manager" upturn in form!

I genuinely don't see how we will get ourselves out of this mess - regardless of what happens with our current manager. Nothing has changed in nine years no matter what we have tried.

Up until recently, most agreed that Stubbs had turned around the team and Dempster had stopped the rot. We didn't get promoted last season but were clearly headed in the right direction.

What has changed since New Year? IMO, bad luck with injuries and bad transfer business.

[Hermit Crab]

I don't think sacking the manager is the answer, we should know that by now....

He's a young manager and he is getting experience....maybe sometimes he needs to take it back to basics. We are not scoring enough goals but recentley have lost a lot of goals.....

On a side note I'm worried that we haven't given our back up keeper enough game time with the cup game coming up....


You can bet your bollocks to a barn dance Oxley will start on Tuesday. If he doesn't then I'd be questioning why Stubbs is throwing an untried keeper into a must win high pressure league match. Reserve keeper should have played today and last Wednesday.

[Cod Boy]

You can bet your bollocks to a barn dance Oxley will start on Tuesday. If he doesn't then I'd be questioning why Stubbs is throwing an untried keeper into a must win high pressure league match. Reserve keeper should have played today and last Wednesday.

I could play in goal next week against Dundee United .It's the lack of the free scoring midfielders whe have in the team that's the worry.

[Hermit Crab]

I could play in goal next week against Dundee United .It's the lack of the free scoring midfielders whe have in the team that's the worry.


It's the lack of goals from our strikers as well as mid fielders that are a worry. Shiiit scared to shoot on sight. No confidence? Or told to try and walk the ball into the net? Our best chance fell to defender today. A sitter of a header at the back post for Gray, even easier to score than Cummings shinned volley that he claimed was a cross to Gray

[MWHIBBIES]

Get back to the 3-5-2 formation that had us winning games and playing great football. Ditch Stokes (didn't want him anyway), bring in Insall and get Jordan Forster back from Plymouth (if fit).We have played 3-5-2 about 10 times in 2 years, the diamond was the formation that had us winning games and playing good football.

[Hermit Crab]

We have played 3-5-2 about 10 times in 2 years, the diamond was the formation that had us winning games and playing good football.


Aye. Until teams sussed us out. We went 352 at Ibrox last season and skelped them twice. That formation was then put back in the drawer never to be seen again.

[Cod Boy]

Aye. Until teams sussed us out. We went 352 at Ibrox last season and skelped them twice. That formation was then put back in the drawer never to be seen again.

Rangers were pish last season though.

[MWHIBBIES]

Aye. Until teams sussed us out. We went 352 at Ibrox last season and skelped them twice. That formation was then put back in the drawer never to be seen again.Was it really? So we didn't play it against Aberdeen and Rangers this season then? Personally I think we should play it more but to say we haven't played it since Rangers last season is just a lie.

As I've said, there are plenty of real seasons to criticise Stubbs, stop making things up.

[Hermit Crab]

Was it really? So we didn't play it against Aberdeen and Rangers this season then? Personally I think we should play it more but to say we haven't played it since Rangers last season is just a lie.

As I've said, there are plenty of real seasons to criticise Stubbs, stop making things up.


If stubbs is such a genius then why use it for only a few games which brings us favourable outcomes then persist in this diamond rubbiish we are being served up?

[MWHIBBIES]

If stubbs is such a genius then why use it for only a few games which brings us favourable outcomes then persist in this diamond rubbiish we are being served up?

I'll try my best to explain this.

We have played the diamond more. We have won more games with it and naturally we have lost more games with it. It isn't rubbish but like every formation or tactical set up or basically anything on the planet earth it isn't perfect. Does that mean we should discard it and play a different way? Maybe. Is playing a different way guaranteed to work? Absolutely not.

We have played 3-5-2 8/10 times since Stubbs came in. It has worked in a majority of games it has been played. Does that mean we should always play like that? Maybe. Does that mean that system will always work? Absolutely not. Is there any evidence to show that we would win more or less, long term, while playing it? Absolutely not.

Have you considered 3-5-2 works because we DON'T play it all the time? As in opposition don't know how to play against it. The Inverness game recently is a good example of this. They were prepared for our diamond not because it is a diamond but because we regularly play that way so we are easier to scout. When McGeouch went off we switched to 3-5-2 and played very well until about 15 minutes to go. Yogi figured out what he needed to do to match up better against our 3-5-2 (I'll happily explain exactly what he done if you are interested) and Inverness were the better side in the last 15 minutes. What is preventing that happening on a larger scale if we play 3-5-2 regularly?

I'm not saying what we are currently doing is working or that we should stick by it. I'm saying a lot of people want change for the sake of change which is largely pointless. The diamond has shown many times since Stubbs came in that it has positives and some of our best results under his management have been with that system. In my view the idea is correct but recently the execution of it from Stubbs and the players has been flawed. We haven't been clinical enough or smart enough or confident to win against teams who fight and scrap for everything. We have lost the solid defensive shape that made us difficult to play against. We have not adapted for Fyvie and McGeouch being injured (easily the most important 2 players in Stubbs diamond, again I'll happily explain why) and have made things harder for ourselves as a result. We lost Malonga who gave us an out-ball and that little bit of magic that could win a game and of course, individual errors and poor performances from players.

Maybe the issue with the diamond is that it isn't clinical enough over the course of a season to win the league (Liverpool and Milan have shown) but can work extremely well over 10/15 games (Milans European cup success under Ancelotti)? I dunno, something to think about.

We should at the very least try 3-5-2, especially at Hampden next weekend but folk are kidding themselves if they think it doesn't have negatives as well. It requires at least 1 very good ball playing central defender, probably 2. Wing-backs have a very tireless and difficult job and the forwards need to be able to hold the ball and work together. The midfield balance isn't easy to come by either and even when we have played 3-5-2 and won with it the midfield haven't really dominated the game.

[Just Jimmy]

3,5,2
4,4,2
Diamonds

Who gives a flying?

The 11 players who are put on the park to represent Hibernian FC should be pumping teams at this level. Sure they will lose the odd game, that's sport but the simple fact is, man on man, they should be better.

[Thecat23]

Quality, your man Butcher was a complete failure, so you put all your eggs in one basket (case) and then back Stubbs to the bitter end, even when he's done less than Butcher.

Now its cheat, do it the Hearts way. Quality real quality. :top marks

Thought you'd thrown the towel in? Why you suddenly caring now?

[Brizo]

3,5,2
4,4,2
Diamonds

Who gives a flying?

The 11 players who are put on the park to represent Hibernian FC should be pumping teams at this level. Sure they will lose the odd game, that's sport but the simple fact is, man on man, they should be better.

People can try and forensically analyse our failings all they want, but bottom line is that the above is the simple truth. The odd freak result will happen but our current run goes way beyond that. Our resources and the undoubted quality they possess should have been enough to beat Alloa regardless of the formation used.

As to what is the answer is, Stubbs has been backed and has assembled a squad who a couple of months ago I certainly thought could cope comfortably in the SPFL. As much as I like Stubbs if he doesn't deliver promotion, he cant complain about not being supported by his employers , and he needs to go. Hopefully he can go with some dignity.

A third season in the Championship would be a real watershed financially and morale wise, and may need someone whose "philosophy" is flexible enough to grind out results in any way possible, rather than Stubbs purist approach.

[coldingham hibs]

People can try and forensically analyse our failings all they want, but bottom line is that the above is the simple truth. The odd freak result will happen but our current run goes way beyond that. Our resources and the undoubted quality they possess should have been enough to beat Alloa regardless of the formation used.

As to what is the answer is, Stubbs has been backed and has assembled a squad who a couple of months ago I certainly thought could cope comfortably in the SPFL. As much as I like Stubbs if he doesn't deliver promotion, he cant complain about not being supported by his employers , and he needs to go. Hopefully he can go with some dignity.

A third season in the Championship would be a real watershed financially and morale wise, and may need someone whose "philosophy" is flexible enough to grind out results in any way possible, rather than Stubbs purist approach.

The problem is it won't be Stubbs on a reduced budget it will be some other poor sod. A third season in the Championship could easily turn into a fourth, fifth etc. I for one will continue next season but that will be the last season ticket if we stay down. This club have ripped us off for too long, we pay higher prices for almost everything yet watch a team who on current form are below Championship standard.

[GreenCastle]

3,5,2
4,4,2
Diamonds

Who gives a flying?

The 11 players who are put on the park to represent Hibernian FC should be pumping teams at this level. Sure they will lose the odd game, that's sport but the simple fact is, man on man, they should be better.

While I agree it's not all about formations - the system you set up to play and the tactics you give the players will have an effect on the game.

We have been crying out for width and pace since last season.

I can hardly name you our wingers we have had in this time...

Boyle
Harris
Carmichael

Anymore ?

Our back 4/5 with goalkeeper is pretty much the same as last season - basically undropable at times.

Our midfield doesn't score enough goals and we haven't had a decent goal scoring midfielder for years.

Strikers - Cummings has a decent return rate / so did Malonga until he left. Stokes and Keatings have also scored some, but Keatings should have more and our other strikers haven't contributed enough (in limited game time). Stokes has taken several games to get anywhere close to match fit.

Everyone in the league knows how to play Hibs and that's one of the problems. You need to adapt and have a plan B and C as currently every team in Scotland knows our plan A.

If plan A which people say won us games previously (but never enough games to win us promotion last season or a cup final / league title this season) isn't working Stubbs and his staff need to change it.

[coldingham hibs]

Some of the reasons I think it has gone wrong but Stubbs has persisted with it.


Cummings, Stokes & Keatings doesn't work.

Gray & Stevenson doesn't work.

Oxley doesn't work.

Fitting players into a diamond doesn't work.

[MWHIBBIES]

Some of the reasons I think it has gone wrong but Stubbs has persisted with it.


Cummings, Stokes & Keatings doesn't work.

Gray & Stevenson doesn't work.

Oxley doesn't work.

Fitting players into a diamond doesn't work.Why do Stevenson and Gray not work when they worked very well for 18 months?

We also don't ''fit'' players into a diamond, we have players who Stubbs signed that do fit into a diamond, there is no doubt about that.

[coldingham hibs]

Why do Stevenson and Gray not work when they worked very well for 18 months?

We also don't ''fit'' players into a diamond, we have players who Stubbs signed that do fit into a diamond, there is no doubt about that.

To play wing backs the players need to be capable of beating a full back and putting a cross in, neither has the ability to do that.

[Greenworld]

The answer is to send Stokes back to celtic..does our downward spiral not coincide with his arrival.

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

[MWHIBBIES]

To play wing backs the players need to be capable of beating a full back and putting a cross in, neither has the ability to do that.They do have the ability to do that. Maybe you mean they don't have the ability to consistently do it and deliver a quality cross to our midget forwards? Neither does that but they wouldn't be at Easter Road if they did.

Name a full back Hibs could realistically sign who consistently does that? Gray and Lewis actually do all right in terms of assists, the problem is people expect far too much because they are our wide options in this formation and became scapegoats when it isn't working in the middle of the park. Both look much better when the team are playing well, quite simple really.

[MWHIBBIES]

The answer is to send Stokes back to celtic..does our downward spiral not coincide with his arrival.

Sent from my SM-G903F using TapatalkIf only it were that simple, honestly...

It also coincides with Feruz leaving, maybe he was the magic ingredient all along?

[coldingham hibs]

The answer is to send Stokes back to celtic..does our downward spiral not coincide with his arrival.

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

Yes, him & Thomson. I remember posting at the time that we needed young, quick & keen players in the January window but we got Stokes & Thomson, Gunnerson who may fit the bill doesn't get a game.

[lapsedhibee]

We might not get as far as playing Falkirk in the play offs.

:agree: Raith could dump them out first.

[Danderhall Hibs]

You can bet your bollocks to a barn dance Oxley will start on Tuesday. If he doesn't then I'd be questioning why Stubbs is throwing an untried keeper into a must win high pressure league match. Reserve keeper should have played today and last Wednesday.

We're the last 2 games not must win high pressure league games?

[green day]

The answer is to send Stokes back to celtic..does our downward spiral not coincide with his arrival.

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

On paper, yes, but the signs were there way back in December - and IIRC, Lewis said the same thing in a paper interview last month.

[blackpoolhibs]

Thought you'd thrown the towel in? Why you suddenly caring now?

Ah right, so someone who does not attend many games but watches EVERY game is not allowed to comment or have an opinion of a football message board now?

Deary me you fly from one reply to another using the scattergun approach, now its i dont care. :faf: I'm surprised you have not come out with the usual one about me being glad we lost yesterday, and couldnt wait to get on here as soon as the final whistle went. :rolleyes:

[Alfred E Newman]

They do have the ability to do that. Maybe you mean they don't have the ability to consistently do it and deliver a quality cross to our midget forwards? Neither does that but they wouldn't be at Easter Road if they did.

Name a full back Hibs could realistically sign who consistently does that? Gray and Lewis actually do all right in terms of assists, the problem is people expect far too much because they are our wide options in this formation and became scapegoats when it isn't working in the middle of the park. Both look much better when the team are playing well, quite simple really.

As you say they can do it but they don't do it consistently enough. Unfortunately this is largely down to lack of pace. Relying solely on full backs like this to supply the ammo week after week seems like a major flaw tactical flaw to me.
Of course we could be adventurous and play with a winger.:dunno:

[gaz1875]

3,5,2
4,4,2
Diamonds

Who gives a flying?

The 11 players who are put on the park to represent Hibernian FC should be pumping teams at this level. Sure they will lose the odd game, that's sport but the simple fact is, man on man, they should be better.

Absolutely spot on. I don't buy into this teams have sussed us out rubbish either. We have more possession, shots and corners than our opponents in pretty much every game we have played, including against the SPL teams in the cup competitions. If our tactics have been sussed out why are the games not more even?

We should be man for man better, but in reality we have too many bang average players who have their limitations and are unfortunately, at Championship level. We have no pace or drive, why are we playing 4 defenders against 1 striker, and our centre halves very rarely cross the half way line with the ball with no opposition closing them down? Why do our wing back very rarely get to the bye line to fire the ball into our 3 strikers who should all be in the 18 yard box doing what they are there to do? Where are the midfield players that burst forward driving at the opposition and opening up space for the strikers? Why are the strikers continually drifting around the midfield or wings looking for the ball instead of getting the ball in and around the 18 yard box? Simple answer, we are not nearly as good as what we think or are lead to believe.

[Eyrie]

As you say they can do it but they don't do it consistently enough. Unfortunately this is largely down to lack of pace. Relying solely on full backs like this to supply the ammo week after week seems like a major flaw tactical flaw to me.
Of course we could be adventurous and play with a winger.:dunno:

That sounds dangerously like having a Plan B.

You'll be suggesting playing at pace next :tsk tsk:

[rotherhamrob]

Perhaps we could stop trying to play like everton (who if it wasn't for lukaku would probably be in a relegation fight).
It's been said many, many times on here that passing the ball about in front of the opposing teams defence is just too easy to defend. It's about time AS did what he is paid for and if that means dropping certain players then so be it.
As things stand, this could still be a season for us all to remember for the right reasons but surely he can see that for the sake of hibs and his managerial credibility he has to change things, at this stage I wouldn't even be against giving 1 or 2 of the youngsters a chance, we are in the play offs anyway, let's see what they are made off, let's face it , results couldn't get any worse.

[Thecat23]

Ah right, so someone who does not attend many games but watches EVERY game is not allowed to comment or have an opinion of a football message board now?

Deary me you fly from one reply to another using the scattergun approach, now its i dont care. :faf: I'm surprised you have not come out with the usual one about me being glad we lost yesterday, and couldnt wait to get on here as soon as the final whistle went. :rolleyes:

Sorry but those were your words not mine. I'm only reminding you what you said! So add as many little smiley faces as you want, you said it not me.

Do I think your happy we lost? I don't think any Hibs fan is so I've no idea that that's all about. You can comment and post whatever you feel BH, I'll just do my usual and take it with a pinch of salt. You don't like Stubbs you want him sacked fair enough. Have a lovely Sunday now! 👋🏼

[blackpoolhibs]

Sorry but those were your words not mine. I'm only reminding you what you said! So add as many little smiley faces as you want, you said it not me.

Do I think your happy we lost? I don't think any Hibs fan is so I've no idea that that's all about. You can comment and post whatever you feel BH, I'll just do my usual and take it with a pinch of salt. You don't like Stubbs you want him sacked fair enough. Have a lovely Sunday now! 

I will, lamb roasties and fresh veg.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Absolutely spot on. I don't buy into this teams have sussed us out rubbish either. We have more possession, shots and corners than our opponents in pretty much every game we have played, including against the SPL teams in the cup competitions. If our tactics have been sussed out why are the games not more even?

We should be man for man better, but in reality we have too many bang average players who have their limitations and are unfortunately, at Championship level. We have no pace or drive, why are we playing 4 defenders against 1 striker, and our centre halves very rarely cross the half way line with the ball with no opposition closing them down? Why do our wing back very rarely get to the bye line to fire the ball into our 3 strikers who should all be in the 18 yard box doing what they are there to do? Where are the midfield players that burst forward driving at the opposition and opening up space for the strikers? Why are the strikers continually drifting around the midfield or wings looking for the ball instead of getting the ball in and around the 18 yard box? Simple answer, we are not nearly as good as what we think or are lead to believe.

Because teams are happy to let us have lots of sterile posession. Teams like livi can also set up to leave our least dangerous playerd on the ball - like they did with mcgregor. Posession is not the aim of football.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Because teams are happy to let us have lots of sterile posession. Teams like livi can also set up to leave our least dangerous playerd on the ball - like they did with mcgregor. Posession is not the aim of football.

:agree: lots of other teams force us out to the left hand side as well.

[gaz1875]

Because teams are happy to let us have lots of sterile posession. Teams like livi can also set up to leave our least dangerous playerd on the ball - like they did with mcgregor. Posession is not the aim of football.

But they are not stopping our shots at goal however poor they have been, and there have been some sitters.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

But they are not stopping our shots at goal however poor they have been, and there have been some sitters.

No, but there are very few games at home where we make loads of clear chances. We had to rely on two great goals from outside the box to win our last game against livi.

Us being sussed out doesnt mean opposition tactics are now full proof, but it does mean that thwy optimise their chances, minimise their weaknessses and maximise ours. Given the talented players we have, most teams are quite happy if gray and Stevenson are our two main attackers

[Thecat23]

I will, lamb roasties and fresh veg.

Same as me.

[jacomo]

If only it were that simple, honestly...

It also coincides with Feruz leaving, maybe he was the magic ingredient all along?

You talk a lot of sense on here, which is welcome at the moment.

But you've got to question our January dealings, surely? We were never free scoring all season, but the goals have dried up and the team has stopped performing as a unit.

[Hermit Crab]

We're the last 2 games not must win high pressure league games?


I wouldn't say they were as they were against shiiiiite teams who we should be beating comfortably by 3 or 4 goals. Tuesday is against our immediate rivals for second place.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I wouldn't say they were as they were against shiiiiite teams who we should be beating comfortably by 3 or 4 goals. Tuesday is against our immediate rivals for second place.

"Easier" must win matches.

[Hermit Crab]

"Easier" must win matches.


We couldn't even do that......

[Canon Hannan]

Posted this on the PM board but it's just as relevant here?

I genuinely can't see what will improve our season. We have a rot at this club that goes far deeper than the manager, players or executives.

Look at out recent history - sacked Hughes and replaced with manager who had track record in England? Same ****. Sacked him and replaced by manager who had won titles on a low budget? Same ****. Sacked him and replaced him with a manager who had a proven record in the division we were in at the time? Relegated from mid-range.

Now we've had our chairman take a step back (who we all previously assumed was the problem) and consistently spent money on the subsequently appointed manager to build a team we thought could challenge not only in this division but the division above. The result? Same ****.

Serious questions now have to be raised about Stubbs and I think if we fail to be promoted or win the Cup then he should go. But what realistically will change? Countless proven managers have come here and done **** all - we're about the only team in Scotland who DOESN'T ever get the "new manager" upturn in form!

I genuinely don't see how we will get ourselves out of this mess - regardless of what happens with our current manager. Nothing has changed in nine years no matter what we have tried.

New Board and Hibs people in the Academy.

[h185forever]

There is no simple answer.


There are a lot of things that aren't as good as they should be in this second year in the Championship.
We still struggle to breakdown teams that hearts, Rangers and Falkirk all deal(t) with very easily.
League wise ....we could finish lower this season in arguably an easier league....

Everyone has their opinion(s) so I will throw mine in too.

First of all I'm not for sacking anyone as our recent history shows this is not the answer.
I don't have the answers ...I wish I had.....ut can see where we are weak.....in my opinion

I'm still for supporting the team, the manager and the board, who I think have all done their utmost over the last two years to improve things.

So what's wrong.....

Start at the back......

The goalkeeping situation has been a problem for Hibs for many a year now and Oxley in my view isn't the answer.
He isn't to blame either for all our failures but does contribute.
He doesn't command his box, he drops or parries too many shots and this can't help the defence in front of him.

The outfield defenders

In my view this has been a problem since Mowbray's time and it amazes me that managers who in themselves were very good defenders, can't see or fix the problem.
We've looked all season like a group of individuals rather than a team and only occasionally do we look really look secure.
I know the stats may suggest otherwise but we'd ridden our luck at home in a lot of games and the stats don't show that.
Teams facing us know they will get a chance to score and if they can keep their own back door shut ......

I really hate the passing along the back four, as it gives the opposition time to funnel back and frustrate us.
We need to move forward faster and with more width ...its all too pedestrian.
However, lumping balls forward to our first choice striker(s)....who aren't very good at holding the ball up ....just dumbfounds me....
the biggest complaint I see on here and at the games ..is we don't seem to be able to vary or change our game.
Most of our deadball situations are poor and often lead to us being under pressure defensively.


Midfield

Probably the best area of the team ...on paper

however one or two are injury prone, and the rest, whilst still young ....seem to have run out of steam a few weeks ago ....why is that when part time teams are still running strong.
Bear in mind this was before our current fixture congestion....so they've ample rest time until now.
We expect too much of the likes of Henderson and McGinn, who I think are immense when on song.
Defensive midfield - .....Bartley seem heads and shoulders above our other options here but injuries ....I'm not sure

Forwards

Most of the time their second touch is a tackle....arguably the passes to them aren't that great .....but on the other hand maybe its just a lack of technique
Jason is good but young and needs to look up at times
Stokes...not as good as he once was
Keatings .....isn't suited to how we seem to want to play
Dagnall.... needs game time if we want more from him.
Farid.....I love .....but we never get him on the park long enough

OOps ...forgot Boyle ......deserves more game time ....on recent form....pace and goals

Confidence is a big part of football and we seem to have it most of the time but when it goes ...we collapse spectacularly

I love this club, have done for over 50 years and will for however long I have left

What's the saying ? ...Scottish by birth ....Hibbie by the grace of God...thank him daily !!!

I hurt as much as anyone right now

Please don't give up on them .....they need us more than ever just now

If you wanted to support a team that wins all the time or doesn't disappoint you often...then Hibs is not the team for you

GGTTH

[gaz1875]

No, but there are very few games at home where we make loads of clear chances. We had to rely on two great goals from outside the box to win our last game against livi.

Us being sussed out doesnt mean opposition tactics are now full proof, but it does mean that thwy optimise their chances, minimise their weaknessses and maximise ours. Given the talented players we have, most teams are quite happy if gray and Stevenson are our two main attackers

The bit in bold is pretty much what I was eluding to in my op. We create loads of half chances and have also missed some real sitters. It's the overall quality of our players that we don't create more opportunities for more real sitters!! No one takes opposition players out the game by actually getting past anyone, it's all slow methodical build ups right through the team. When we do up the pace and run with the ball instead of this sideways passing and continual cutting back infield (I will single out LS in-particular here but there are others), we do look really good. It's few and far between unfortunately. Maybe a fit McGeouch would be the answer, he takes the ball from our own 18 yard box and actually crosses the half way line at pace pushing everyone forward, but we appear to have a total reliance on one player to do this.

[Turkish Green]

On current form I cannot see Hibs getting past Raith over 2 legs never mind Falkirk.

Manager appointments since John Collins have been poor and probably even Mowbray, before him, was a lucky find. All down to Petrie.

However you look at it, Stubbs was appointed as the cheap option whose record, allbeit in the Championship, is far better than that of previous managers. I just prefer his run of good results to come at the end of the season rather than at midway.

For me the only solution is the departure of STF and RP with new blood in the boardroom. It appears to have worked over at the PBS. The fourth largest supported club in Scotland should not be languishing in the Championship getting beat by part-time teams like Alloa, Dumbarton & Cowdenbeath. We need those people in charge to have forsight to take the club out of the doldrums and back to the top 3/4 of the Premiership where the rightly belong.

Sadly for me I just do not see it happening in the remainder of my lifetime.

[hibbydad]

[QUOTE=Turkish Green;4642715]On current form I cannot see Hibs getting past Raith over 2 legs never mind Falkirk.

Manager appointments since John Collins have been poor and probably even Mowbray, before him, was a lucky find. All down to Petrie.

However you look at it, Stubbs was appointed as the cheap option whose record, allbeit in the Championship, is far better than that of previous managers. I just prefer his run of good results to come at the end of the season rather than at midway.

For me the only solution is the departure of STF and RP with new blood in the boardroom. It appears to have worked over at the PBS. The fourth largest supported club in Scotland should not be languishing in the Championship getting beat by part

[hibbydad]

Pains me to say so but I think the real problem is Stubbs it has been obvious for weeks that the diamond isn't working but he still persists with it also Stokes and Cummings do not work together atall.

[eastmainsmsh]

It's not rocket science who scores when he plays Martin Boyle and he can't get a start it's baffling can change a game with his pace etc

[Billy McKirdy]

I beginning to think another season down here will not be the end of our world, we should start firm favourites for the title next season should we manage to keep most of the squad together, Stubbs has done very well until this recent slump and although my initial instinct after yesterday's loss was for him to go should we fail to go up I'm willing to trust him on one final chance next season to get us out of this league.
Hopefully none of that will cone to pass but if it does we need to build on all the good stuff that's been achieved since he's come in, we have no automatic right to be a premiership club, in spite of our alarming run recently for me, hopefully he'll learn sooner rather than later his tactical errors and how to fix them.
In Stubbs I trust.
GGTTH

[Turkish Green]

The bit in bold is pretty much what I was eluding to in my op. We create loads of half chances and have also missed some real sitters. It's the overall quality of our players that we don't create more opportunities for more real sitters!!

Lack of goals will cost us dear.

My lad played alongside Cummings at Hutchie U19s, so I watched Jason develop through youth, EOS and senior football. While Jason is a prodigious talent he should have been nurtured by the coaches instead of starting so many first team games on the trot. At his young age he will go in and out of form and have periods of low confidence. We expect too much of him but as for Anthony Stokes, there are no excuses to his poor form. Hibs should have retained Malonga until the end of the season.

As I mentioned on another thread, I have no confidence in Hibs beating any team over two legs.

[Colr]

[QUOTE=Turkish Green;4642715]On current form I cannot see Hibs getting past Raith over 2 legs never mind Falkirk.

Manager appointments since John Collins have been poor and probably even Mowbray, before him, was a lucky find. All down to Petrie.

However you look at it, Stubbs was appointed as the cheap option whose record, allbeit in the Championship, is far better than that of previous managers. I just prefer his run of good results to come at the end of the season rather than at midway.

For me the only solution is the departure of STF and RP with new blood in the boardroom. It appears to have worked over at the PBS. The fourth largest supported club in Scotland should not be languishing in the Championship getting beat by part

You can't blame STF. He stays out of affairs of Hibs.

[Beefster]

I beginning to think another season down here will not be the end of our world

That's probably because your defence mechanism is kicking in to try and rationalise the situation so that you are prepared. Folk did the same last year.

[Alfred E Newman]

[QUOTE=hibbydad;4642716]

You can't blame STF. He stays out of affairs of Hibs.

:agree:
You can't blame Petrie either as Stubbs was Dempsters appointment.
You can't say the board have not backed the manager with funds either.

[LALthehibeeGAL]

Not a happy hibby by any means!
But all this " let's sack Stubbs **** "
makes no sense right now.
Yes we're all hurting badly !!
But now is not the time, the players need to get their heads up and get back to winning ways.
We have a massive game on Tuesday against Falkirk that we simply must win and I believe that we will, then Saturday's semi against a United team that's well beatable.

Keep the faith guys.

:agree: totally

we have to wait and see how everything pans out esp next Saturday - it is not Stubbs who is missing chance after chance - bottom line is we are not scoring - the strikers are getting plenty opportunities but do not score and yet no-one seems to blame them - everything is Oxley and Stubbs fault apparently - it's simple really the problem all along is we are not taking the numerous chances which have now came back to haunt us.

Keep the faith dinnae panic - yet!!

Lal:wink:

[Albion Hibs]

I think the answer is keeping the head on. I think most are in agreement that the main objective is to get back into the premier league. That is as much of a possibility this week as it was three weeks ago, the only thing that has changed is we are not going up automatically, which has been the case for some time now. I don't really care if we finish 4th or 2nd, I think setting second place as so key could be our downfall, if we don't do the players heads go down, if we do there is nothing to say we don't end up like Rangers did last season, soundly beaten.

So far we have been in one cup final, with the chance of another, I will be judging Stubbs and whether or not he should be here when we know the outcome of our promotion bid.

If he wins the Scottish cup, I will commission a statue of him for the bottom of my garden!

[Hibernia&Alba]

I honestly don't know what the answer is; I wish I did! When a team gets into a poor run of form, it can be so difficult to reverse. Yesterday's result will be a further - and substantial - blow to confidence. One of the worst results I can recall.

[Eyrie]

I don't care what the answer is, I just want Stubbs to find it before Tuesday.

[emerald green]

I'm not sure what the answer is, but here are a few stats:

After yesterday's match, Alloa Athletic had scored 18 goals all season (the league's lowest) and conceded 63 goals (the highest) and unsurprisingly they are going down to the third division.

Along come Hibs, and lose to Alloa Athletic 1-0. Are the Hibs players not trying? If so, why not? If they are trying, are they simply not good enough? I don't believe the squad Hibs have is worse than Alloa - a part time club already relegated.

Hibs (so far this season) have scored 35 goals less than a bang average The Rangers, and unsurprisingly it's the Ibrox club going up.

[Andy74]

I'm not sure what the answer is, but here are a few stats:

After yesterday's match, Alloa Athletic had scored 18 goals all season (the league's lowest) and conceded 63 goals (the highest) and unsurprisingly they are going down to the third division.

Along come Hibs, and lose to Alloa Athletic 1-0. Are the Hibs players not trying? If so, why not? If they are trying, are they simply not good enough? I don't believe the squad Hibs have is worse than Alloa - a part time club already relegated.

Hibs (so far this season) have scored 35 goals less than a bang average The Rangers, and unsurprisingly it's the Ibrox club going up.

You'd think there would be a few opportunities at this level to rattle in a few goals now and again. We just don't set up to allow us to do that.

[SunshineOnLeith]

To be blunt, ever since we blew the title challenge, losing a few games we shouldn't lose isn't really that big a deal. As long as we still finish second, which I believe we will, there's no harm done other than some bruised egos.

We'll grind out a result on Tuesday night and crawl over the line for second place. Then hopefully we'll have a fit Fyvie and McGeough to improve the midfield for the playoffs.

Yes, everything's a bit crap at the moment but ultimately we're still in contention for promotion and the Scottish Cup.

[Smartie]

IMO the answer is this -

1. Martin Boyle MUST play. First name on the team sheet, played in his strongest position and not squeezed into a diamond somewhere.

2. We find a formation that suits the players we have available. I actually think the diamond can be successful but we need Fyvie and McGeouch to be MATCH FIT for it to stand any chance of working. So it should be binned until they are are 100% fit and good to go. 3-5-2, flat 4-4-2, 4-5-1 - I'm not fussed but whatever it is it has to have Boyle running at fullbacks down the right. I still believe we have a squad brimming with very good players - we just need to work out how to use them.

3. Stokes, Keatings and Cummings are too similar and shouldn't all play up front together. Not sure exactly where that leaves us but the lack of variety we have at our disposal up front is a travesty. If Stubbs can crack this one, work out who plays, who doesn't and how we attack teams then we'll be fine.


Do I have confidence that Stubbs will manage this? If the truth be told, no and frankly I have to say I'd be getting rid of him now if we could. He's had a disastrous January transfer window, the arrivals have under performed (or rarely/ not featured) and looking at the departures it is hard to say that anyone of Malonga, Stanton, Forster, Anier or Eckersley wouldn't improve us right now. The situation we currently find ourselves in has been coming for weeks - Stubbs could have changed it at any time since we dropped points at Livingston but he has chosen to stubbornly stick by his horribly unsuccessful formula and it is that stubbornness that imo will be our undoing.

I really hope he has a change of heart/ mind and puts out the right team on Tuesday and Saturday but I just can't see it. The last 20 against Livingston showed what we are capable of - here's hoping we get to see some more of that over the next week.

I reckon there's a lot of nonsense being spouted as we clutch at straws for reasons why we're struggling - everything from the Stokes and Thomson "disruptive factor" to the East Stand and a need for the players to go running up Gullane dunes.

Get a "team" that is better than the sum of it's parts and we go up and have a decent crack at winning the Scottish Cup.

[emerald green]

You'd think there would be a few opportunities at this level to rattle in a few goals now and again. We just don't set up to allow us to do that.

:agree: The bit in bold - that's down to the head coach and his team.

Plus, when chances are created, they are often wasted.

[Paisley Hibby]

Lack of goals will cost us dear.

My lad played alongside Cummings at Hutchie U19s, so I watched Jason develop through youth, EOS and senior football. While Jason is a prodigious talent he should have been nurtured by the coaches instead of starting so many first team games on the trot. At his young age he will go in and out of form and have periods of low confidence. We expect too much of him but as for Anthony Stokes, there are no excuses to his poor form. Hibs should have retained Malonga until the end of the season.

As I mentioned on another thread, I have no confidence in Hibs beating any team over two legs.

Stokes and Henderson were our best players yesterday by miles. Stokes also has a good game against Livingston. Like you I didn't want us to sign Stokes and woulf have preferred we kept Malonga instea. However, Stokes is getting unfair criticism. He's as much a victim of how we are set up as Cummings, Dagnall and Keatings.

[Golden Bear]

Ditch the diamond and come up with another plan. Anything will do really!

[Heisenberg]

Ditch the diamond and come up with another plan. Anything will do really!

If Stubbs had the tactical brain to try anything else he would have by now. He's clueless when it comes to changing his plan or reacting to how the opposition set up. The league cup final is a perfect example.

[MWHIBBIES]

If Stubbs had the tactical brain to try anything else he would have by now. He's clueless when it comes to changing his plan or reacting to how the opposition set up. The league cup final is a perfect example.The Aberdeen game proves you are talking rubbish. He may be limited but to say he is clueless is just a lie.

[Smartie]

The Aberdeen game proves you are talking rubbish. He may be limited but to say he is clueless is just a lie.

He'd shown during his first season and a half that he could change formation and choose a team to suit an opponent and an occasion. I liked the fact that he found the diamond on the first place, went 3-5-2 when it suited and went with a 4-5-1/ 4-3-3 on occasion too.

It makes his nonsense over the past month or so even more baffling. He's been quick to ditch ideas in the past when they've not been working - his persistence with the diamond throughout our awful spell has been bizarre. He's done it enough now though without any signs of changing that I think folk could be forgiven for describing him as clueless.

[MWHIBBIES]

He'd shown during his first season and a half that he could change formation and choose a team to suit an opponent and an occasion. I liked the fact that he found the diamond on the first place, went 3-5-2 when it suited and went with a 4-5-1/ 4-3-3 on occasion too.

It makes his nonsense over the past month or so even more baffling. He's been quick to ditch ideas in the past when they've not been working - his persistence with the diamond throughout our awful spell has been bizarre. He's done it enough now though without any signs of changing that I think folk could be forgiven for describing him as clueless.

He hasn't always persisted with the diamond though? We played 4-2-3-1 at Raith and 4-3-3 against and Livi.

He might not be the man for the job but describing him as clueless is only showing yourself to be clueless.

[Tyler Durden]

I'll try my best to explain this.

We have played the diamond more. We have won more games with it and naturally we have lost more games with it. It isn't rubbish but like every formation or tactical set up or basically anything on the planet earth it isn't perfect. Does that mean we should discard it and play a different way? Maybe. Is playing a different way guaranteed to work? Absolutely not.

We have played 3-5-2 8/10 times since Stubbs came in. It has worked in a majority of games it has been played. Does that mean we should always play like that? Maybe. Does that mean that system will always work? Absolutely not. Is there any evidence to show that we would win more or less, long term, while playing it? Absolutely not.

Have you considered 3-5-2 works because we DON'T play it all the time? As in opposition don't know how to play against it. The Inverness game recently is a good example of this. They were prepared for our diamond not because it is a diamond but because we regularly play that way so we are easier to scout. When McGeouch went off we switched to 3-5-2 and played very well until about 15 minutes to go. Yogi figured out what he needed to do to match up better against our 3-5-2 (I'll happily explain exactly what he done if you are interested) and Inverness were the better side in the last 15 minutes. What is preventing that happening on a larger scale if we play 3-5-2 regularly?

I'm not saying what we are currently doing is working or that we should stick by it. I'm saying a lot of people want change for the sake of change which is largely pointless. The diamond has shown many times since Stubbs came in that it has positives and some of our best results under his management have been with that system. In my view the idea is correct but recently the execution of it from Stubbs and the players has been flawed. We haven't been clinical enough or smart enough or confident to win against teams who fight and scrap for everything. We have lost the solid defensive shape that made us difficult to play against. We have not adapted for Fyvie and McGeouch being injured (easily the most important 2 players in Stubbs diamond, again I'll happily explain why) and have made things harder for ourselves as a result. We lost Malonga who gave us an out-ball and that little bit of magic that could win a game and of course, individual errors and poor performances from players.

Maybe the issue with the diamond is that it isn't clinical enough over the course of a season to win the league (Liverpool and Milan have shown) but can work extremely well over 10/15 games (Milans European cup success under Ancelotti)? I dunno, something to think about.

We should at the very least try 3-5-2, especially at Hampden next weekend but folk are kidding themselves if they think it doesn't have negatives as well. It requires at least 1 very good ball playing central defender, probably 2. Wing-backs have a very tireless and difficult job and the forwards need to be able to hold the ball and work together. The midfield balance isn't easy to come by either and even when we have played 3-5-2 and won with it the midfield haven't really dominated the game.

Great post

[davemcbain]

A lot of interesting comments in this thread - mine aren't so feel free to skip, but I'll give them anyway:

Keatings has a wee rush of goals when he was played with Dagnall - thought there was a partnership building there. The best partnership I ever remember was in England with Lineker and Beardsley - one of them didn't score many.
Stokes and Cummings are not and never will be a partnership. One or other please.
We HAD the most miserly defence in the UK for much of the season - until Hanlon got injured. Let's not forget that! So one player held it together?
Oxley does not command his box, punches rather than catches and was part of that most miserly defence in the league - if I were Stubbs, I'd be looking at a lot of tapes from earlier in the season to see what's changed. My gut feel is that Oxley is a decent enough shot stopper, but not vocal enough. Hanlon commands the defence and without him, there's plenty of talent, but no voice.
Bartley is the lynchpin in the team, but Fyvie is more forward thinking - tough choice between the two and when both are out, there's no-one to hold the back of that famous diamond.
Would love to see one up front and a five man attacking midfield!
For those who are calling for Stubbs head, I have only one comment - he seems to have a great eye for a player and has made some pretty excellent signings - unlike many others in his position. Maybe the solution is a tactician to work with him rather than a replacement?

[MWHIBBIES]

A lot of interesting comments in this thread - mine aren't so feel free to skip, but I'll give them anyway:

Keatings has a wee rush of goals when he was played with Dagnall - thought there was a partnership building there. The best partnership I ever remember was in England with Lineker and Beardsley - one of them didn't score many.
Stokes and Cummings are not and never will be a partnership. One or other please.
We HAD the most miserly defence in the UK for much of the season - until Hanlon got injured. Let's not forget that! So one player held it together?
Oxley does not command his box, punches rather than catches and was part of that most miserly defence in the league - if I were Stubbs, I'd be looking at a lot of tapes from earlier in the season to see what's changed. My gut feel is that Oxley is a decent enough shot stopper, but not vocal enough. Hanlon commands the defence and without him, there's plenty of talent, but no voice.
Bartley is the lynchpin in the team, but Fyvie is more forward thinking - tough choice between the two and when both are out, there's no-one to hold the back of that famous diamond.
Would love to see one up front and a five man attacking midfield!
For those who are calling for Stubbs head, I have only one comment - he seems to have a great eye for a player and has made some pretty excellent signings - unlike many others in his position. Maybe the solution is a tactician to work with him rather than a replacement?

I stood behind Oxley on Saturday, he is by far the most vocal player in the team.

[Captain Trips]

Oxley has caused less goals IMO than easy chances that should have been buried, our goals for shows that. Oxley may not be best but he isn't why we are not doing well.

[Ronster117]

The answer is...... Win all remaining games.....that gets us promotion and the holy grail



:flag:

[Forza Fred]

From what I have seen we play at a slow and deliberate tempo and lack width.

This means we don't stretch defences, and teams gain confidence from our lack of punch as the minutes tick by...and the opposition realise...."they are not as good as they think they are"

We don't have players who take men on running
into the box,hence don't generate many penalties. Indeed it appears to me only our full backs do anything like this and they are usually so puffed out after getting there their final ball is not threatening.

The answer is, but I think it is too late now....play with width, increase the tempo and stop just lumping high balls up to Jason Cummins...exactly what it is expected he will do with them is beyond me.

Having said all that I think Stubb's will have finally got the message that he needs a Plan B, and next season without the psychologically draining presence of Sevco, I feel we will win the league comfortably.

This season I'm afraid, will go in the history books as one belonging to the 'learning curve'