Are Black coaches held back in scotland ?

[cabbageandribs1875]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35922260

Two black former Scottish top-flight footballers claim the colour of their skin is holding them back from making the transition to management.
Russell Latapy and Kevin Harper, who both played for Hibernian, say the lack of diversity in Scottish dugouts proves their point.


Harper, who is currently doing his A Licence coaching training, says he feels the same way.
"I've applied for at least 10 jobs in Scotland and I've had two responses," revealed the 40-year-old.


the bit in bold is pretty poor manners in not at least acknowledging an application, imo

[Allant1981]

Ive applied for loads of jobs and never heard back, its how things are done now, doubt its anything to do with his skin colour

[Scouse Hibee]

So Harper has had two responses from 10 jobs, what if a white guy has only had one response? Not replying to job applicants is very poor but to suggest it's because of the colour of his skin seems bizarre to me.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Ive applied for loads of jobs and never heard back, its how things are done now, doubt its anything to do with his skin colour


yes of course i know that, but how many applicants apply for top coach at a football club in scotland, 40 ? 50 ? surely the club secretary can at least reply :dunno:

[cabbageandribs1875]

So Harper has had two responses from 10 jobs, what if a white guy has only had one response? Not replying to job applicants is very poor but to suggest it's because of the colour of his skin seems bizarre to me.


i think wee harper has came out with this a few times over the years

[Kojock]

What about Kenny Black, he was a manager at Airdrie for a while.

[easty]

the bit in bold doesn't mean anything when we don't know the jobs he's applied for anyway.

[Allant1981]

yes of course i know that, but how many applicants apply for top coach at a football club in scotland, 40 ? 50 ? surely the club secretary can at least reply :dunno:

They probably could reply i agree, still dont think his colour has anything to do with it, no experience or lack of experience is probably the reason

[bawheid]

Ask Gary MacKay...

[cabbageandribs1875]

They probably could reply i agree, still dont think his colour has anything to do with it, no experience or lack of experience is probably the reason


i would agree :agree:, but then it's obviously affecting them

[Ricky Bobby]

It is hard to gauge how big a problem this is in Scottish football, given that there is a relatively low percentage of black players playing in our leagues. As has been pointed out on here applying for a job does not guarantee a reply, I would imagine there are plenty of non black managers who have experienced the same treatment.
However we have try and ensure that our game is representative of those who take part, unlike in England where there is overwhelming evidence that black managers and coaches are being overlooked.

[CropleyWasGod]

yes of course i know that, but how many applicants apply for top coach at a football club in scotland, 40 ? 50 ? surely the club secretary can at least reply :dunno:
Seems to be the modern way not to acknowledge job applications, unfortunately.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[Biggie]

Don't know the guys but poor show playing the colour card......no idea about their standing in the game, but maybe nobody is touching latapy because they fear he'll take them out on the lash before a cup final or something.
Maybe they just don't come across well in their applications......everybody has applied for jobs and not had a response....

[Golden Bear]

Jimmy Calderwood can't understand why he's not considered for Managerial positions. It's his favourite rant.

[hibsbollah]

He didn't play the 'race card', he spoke very well about the underrepresentation of black coaches in the Scottish and English game. This is an indisputable fact, and if it doesn't represent racism then what does it represent?

i think the unwillingness of people to accept racism when they see it is down to a misunderstanding that you have to be some sort of hood wearing klan member or Stephen Lawrence murderer to be racist. Or even that you have to be doing it consciously.

[Michael]

Jimmy Calderwood can't understand why he's not considered for Managerial positions. It's his favourite rant.

I can't either. He has a very ugly yet effective style. Considering that most clubs go for an ugly yet ineffective style, I'm surprised that more clubs don't give him a call.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Guess there is a world of difference between claim and state as fact.

[Michael]

He didn't play the 'race card', he spoke very well about the underrepresentation of black coaches in the Scottish and English game. This is an indisputable fact, and if it doesn't represent racism then what does it represent?

i think the unwillingness of people to accept racism when they see it is down to a misunderstanding that you have to be some sort of hood wearing klan member or Stephen Lawrence murderer to be racist. Or even that you have to be doing it consciously.

Is that the kind of fact that doesn't require any statistical backing?

As far as I'm aware no one has published demographics of the applicants of managerial positions.

Lets not take sides until we know the facts.

[hibsbollah]

Is that the kind of fact that doesn't require any statistical backing?

.

The Scottish ethnic minority population is 4%. The proportion of coaches at Scottish football clubs is 0%. The UK population is 14%. So, yes, it's a statistical fact that black managers are underrepresented.

[Michael]

The Scottish ethnic minority population is 4%. The proportion of coaches at Scottish football clubs is 0%. The UK population is 14%. So, yes, it's a statistical fact that black managers are underrepresented.

I count only 2 red haired managers here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Scottish_Professional_Football_League_mana gers

10% of the Scottish population have red hair.

We clearly need statistics about the applicants, not the Scottish population.

[hibsbollah]

I count only 2 red haired managers here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Scottish_Professional_Football_League_mana gers

10% of the Scottish population have red hair.

We clearly need statistics about the applicants, not the Scottish population.

No we don't. I was talking about underrepresentation.

[Ricky Bobby]

No we don't. I was talking about underrepresentation.

I totally agree with you about black coaches being under represented, however it is linked to participants/applicants, which in the case of Scotland is very difficult to gauge given the small numbers involved.
You could make the case that minorities are under represented in Shinty, but that does not mean they have a racial problem with rercruitment.

[Colr]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35922260

Two black former Scottish top-flight footballers claim the colour of their skin is holding them back from making the transition to management.
Russell Latapy and Kevin Harper, who both played for Hibernian, say the lack of diversity in Scottish dugouts proves their point.


Harper, who is currently doing his A Licence coaching training, says he feels the same way.
"I've applied for at least 10 jobs in Scotland and I've had two responses," revealed the 40-year-old.


the bit in bold is pretty poor manners in not at least acknowledging an application, imo

You racist, skirt-wearing *******s. Wallowing in the privilege of the white working classes!!

[Hibby Bairn]

The Scottish ethnic minority population is 4%. The proportion of coaches at Scottish football clubs is 0%. The UK population is 14%. So, yes, it's a statistical fact that black managers are underrepresented.

Might be 4% but suspect football player % is lower than that at all levels. Probably closer to 0%.

[HibsNutter]

Of course not. Imagine, you are a board member, looking to appoint the best possible applicant, you do so for your benefit because if the appointment turns out to be a success it reflects well upon you. An applicants race wouldn't be taken into account when making such a decision. Why would it?

[steakbake]

Hibsbollah makes a decent point. The other thing is how tight knit the Scottish football fraternity is. For a while, it was the tired old faces switching clubs every few years - very little fresh blood or new perspectives. I'm not surprised to read Latapy and Harper might struggle. It's slowly changing: although some of our appointments have not set the heather alight, they've often been outsiders to the Scottish management racket. Celtic were brave with Deila. The Rangers thought a bit beyond a number of more obvious and weel kent faces connected to the old club before going with Warburton.

Hope the lads get a break soon.

Overall though, black managers are surprisingly thin on the ground compared to black players in the wider game. There's something not going right. I'd probably call it institutionalism ahead of racism but I wouldn't be shocked if it was. There's still people who find sectarianism amusing and a subject for light West Coast banter in 21st century Scotland. It's not a big leap from that mindset to a generally bigoted and outmoded view of the world.

[Sammy7nil]

Of course not. Imagine, you are a board member, looking to appoint the best possible applicant, you do so for your benefit because if the appointment turns out to be a success it reflects well upon you. An applicants race wouldn't be taken into account when making such a decision. Why would it?

LOL that is the whole point :greengrin
There are definately racist's in football it is just question of how many and who they are. I think the vast majority of appointments are made based on ability but i am not gullible enough to say that all are.

[hibsbollah]

I totally agree with you about black coaches being under represented, however it is linked to participants/applicants, which in the case of Scotland is very difficult to gauge given the small numbers involved.
You could make the case that minorities are under represented in Shinty, but that does not mean they have a racial problem with rercruitment.

I suppose the difference with shinty is shinty isn't a global game, with black players commonplace throughout its European leagues, and literally thousands of BEM kids coming through the school system, and black players with careers in the pro leagues and emerging with coaching badges still unable to get a big job in the sport.

Russell was put (or put himself) in an impossible position by being asked questions about his own circumstances, because he will always be asked to defend his own inability to get a job, which isn't a comfortable thing to have to do. I'd rather BBC Scotland had the vision to raise the question themselves 'why, more than 30 years since Mark Walters became the first widely known black signing in the Scottish leagues has there not been ONE black manager?'.

[hibsbollah]

Might be 4% but suspect football player % is lower than that at all levels. Probably closer to 0%.

Not in my boy's school and in the school's he plays against. Possibly more the other way in fact.

[Brightside]

He didn't play the 'race card', he spoke very well about the underrepresentation of black coaches in the Scottish and English game. This is an indisputable fact, and if it doesn't represent racism then what does it represent?

i think the unwillingness of people to accept racism when they see it is down to a misunderstanding that you have to be some sort of hood wearing klan member or Stephen Lawrence murderer to be racist. Or even that you have to be doing it consciously.

Surely just a %age game in Scotland. How many Black coaches compared to non Black? I agree on England where there are far more candidates and not very many seem to get a look in. BUT if Rudd Gullit applied for the Celtic job i imagine he would get it. Apart from a few morons in the stand I don't think Racism is an issue in our country. Im sure Latapy was working with Mixu for a while...perhaps he doesn't have the skills to take on a full managerial role? Has Kevin Harper been working as a coach with any of the scottish teams? You can't just get an A Licence and expect a job....there a hundreds of people with A licences who aren't in top coaching roles.

[Andy Bee]

I suppose the difference with shinty is shinty isn't a global game, with black players commonplace throughout its European leagues, and literally thousands of BEM kids coming through the school system, and black players with careers in the pro leagues and emerging with coaching badges still unable to get a big job in the sport.

Russell was put (or put himself) in an impossible position by being asked questions about his own circumstances, because he will always be asked to defend his own inability to get a job, which isn't a comfortable thing to have to do. I'd rather BBC Scotland had the vision to raise the question themselves 'why, more than 30 years since Mark Walters became the first widely known black signing in the Scottish leagues has there not been ONE black manager?'.


John Barnes?

[NAE NOOKIE]

Its always a tough one to call in situations like this ...... you cant pretend Scotland is squeaky clean in the racism area, but its a bit far fetched to think a host of clubs would all bump a good candidate based on the colour of their skin. It can be a bit too easy to jump to the race card as a theory as to why you are being beaten to jobs.

When it comes to Kevin Harper he appears to have little coaching experience and hasn't even completed his badges yet ...... It depends what jobs he is applying for, if its the Premiership or top half Championship clubs I would imagine the competition is fierce. Plenty of coaches gain experience in Lowland league or junior football before they get anywhere near top flight clubs .... I doubt Kevin's problem is any more than that.

Russell Latapy is a whole different matter ....... He has won leagues and cups in a good league as a player, he has coached and briefly managed at international level and been an assistant coach at Porto as well as assistant manager at cup winning ICT ... It cant be denied that he has a sound knowledge of the Scottish game. With a CV like that its a bit surprising that a club hasn't given him a chance, its only a matter of time I would have thought .... if it doesn't happen you would have to wonder.

[Ricky Bobby]

I suppose the difference with shinty is shinty isn't a global game, with black players commonplace throughout its European leagues, and literally thousands of BEM kids coming through the school system, and black players with careers in the pro leagues and emerging with coaching badges still unable to get a big job in the sport.

Russell was put (or put himself) in an impossible position by being asked questions about his own circumstances, because he will always be asked to defend his own inability to get a job, which isn't a comfortable thing to have to do. I'd rather BBC Scotland had the vision to raise the question themselves 'why, more than 30 years since Mark Walters became the first widely known black signing in the Scottish leagues has there not been ONE black manager?'.

I would agree that with the increased numbers of black and minority players taking part in the game that, as they move through the game, there should in the near future, be a higher representation of these players making it into coaching roles.
However up to this point , I am not sure if there has been a high enough number of potential applicants that have played in our system, to say whether there is a real problem.
I would definately say that statistics in England suggest they have a very real problem, and i would hate to see us in the same position in a few years.
Hopefully with modern thinking boards such as ours, we wont fall in to the old school, jobs for the boys attitudes.

[hibsbollah]

John Barnes?

:bevvied!: errr he doesn't count. :offski:

But the point stands I think.

[lucky]

For me Latapy and Harper both had reputations of the park that would stop me giving them coaching jobs. That being said Latapy was a genius with the ball at his feet and Harper played at a decent level but as coaches ..... No thanks. But the lack of ethnic minority's involved in football in Scotland is wrong

[My_Wife_Camille]

It's to do with simple numbers and statistics IMO. About 99% of all managers are retired players and the majority manage teams in the countries that they played in. In Latapy and Harpers day there were less black footballers playing in Scotland as there are now, just as there were even less still 10/20 years before their time. As a result there are simply less black retired footballers looking for jobs in management at this time than white people.

I remember a former England player complaint about this a year or so back (I think it was Les Ferdinand or Sol Campbell) and I thought the same then as I do now - there were less black players playing in Britain in their day and so there are less retired black players looking to get into management now. Nothing more sinister than that.

For example, in the 16 years since 2000 there have been 41 black players to play for England which is 4 more than the number that played for England in the previous 128 years. I also read recently that 1 in 3 English Premier League players this year is black. I'm not sure what the numbers were like in 1997 when Campbell and Ferdinand were playing but I'd guess it's much lower.

When the current generation of footballers start to retire then there will undoubtedly be more black coaches and managers but it's not something that will just magically happen over night.


PS I have to admit that I've not read many replies to this thread so apologies if someone else has already said what I have

[My_Wife_Camille]

The Scottish ethnic minority population is 4%. The proportion of coaches at Scottish football clubs is 0%. The UK population is 14%. So, yes, it's a statistical fact that black managers are underrepresented.
I get your point but football managers aren't just plucked out of the general population. How many of that 14 percent are women or children or people who have never even looked at a football before, let alone played it at any sort of level. A more appropriate statistic would be something like the percentage of 35-70 year old black, male, former football players.

[jgl07]

I suppose the difference with shinty is shinty isn't a global game, with black players commonplace throughout its European leagues, and literally thousands of BEM kids coming through the school system, and black players with careers in the pro leagues and emerging with coaching badges still unable to get a big job in the sport.

Russell was put (or put himself) in an impossible position by being asked questions about his own circumstances, because he will always be asked to defend his own inability to get a job, which isn't a comfortable thing to have to do. I'd rather BBC Scotland had the vision to raise the question themselves 'why, more than 30 years since Mark Walters became the first widely known black signing in the Scottish leagues has there not been ONE black manager?'.
There has.

John Barnes at Celtic. He was rubbish though!

[Beefster]

He didn't play the 'race card', he spoke very well about the underrepresentation of black coaches in the Scottish and English game. This is an indisputable fact, and if it doesn't represent racism then what does it represent?

i think the unwillingness of people to accept racism when they see it is down to a misunderstanding that you have to be some sort of hood wearing klan member or Stephen Lawrence murderer to be racist. Or even that you have to be doing it consciously.

You've saved me a job on this thread, hibsbollah. Before you came along, it was a bit like me and my buddies sitting in the pub claiming that land mines aren't a problem because we've never stood on one.

[Waxy]

Dunno about all this but Kevin Harper and Russell Latapy were real fans favorites while playing for us.

[Peevemor]

I've often wondered, given the racial/ethnic democratic of Scotland (and the UK as a whole), why there aren't more asian pro footballers.

[Jim44]

It's to do with simple numbers and statistics IMO. About 99% of all managers are retired players and the majority manage teams in the countries that they played in. In Latapy and Harpers day there were less black footballers playing in Scotland as there are now, just as there were even less still 10/20 years before their time. As a result there are simply less black retired footballers looking for jobs in management at this time than white people.

I remember a former England player complaint about this a year or so back (I think it was Les Ferdinand or Sol Campbell) and I thought the same then as I do now - there were less black players playing in Britain in their day and so there are less retired black players looking to get into management now. Nothing more sinister than that.

For example, in the 16 years since 2000 there have been 41 black players to play for England which is 4 more than the number that played for England in the previous 128 years. I also read recently that 1 in 3 English Premier League players this year is black. I'm not sure what the numbers were like in 1997 when Campbell and Ferdinand were playing but I'd guess it's much lower.

When the current generation of footballers start to retire then there will undoubtedly be more black coaches and managers but it's not something that will just magically happen over night.


PS I have to admit that I've not read many replies to this thread so apologies if someone else has already said what I have

I suspect that this post is nearest to the mark.

[Northernhibee]

Ive applied for loads of jobs and never heard back, its how things are done now, doubt its anything to do with his skin colour

I have a friend who is a Muslim and some of the attitudes and questions he has been asked when applying for jobs is staggering. It does exist in Scotland.

[SeanWilson]

Don't know enough facts/have any evidence to back this up, however my guess would be - No. I can't imagine race being a valid reason for anyone being denied a job in football management.

[ballengeich]

Might be 4% but suspect football player % is lower than that at all levels. Probably closer to 0%.

The 4% includes people from a variety of cultures. In England black players, who I believe are actually over-represented as a percentage, are mainly of African and Caribbean origins. Descendents of immigrants from the Indian sub-continent are few in the game, presumably because historically these countries had less interest in football. The non-white population of Scotland is more weighted to Indian sub-continent origin and we see very few players of that background.

From the little I know about Scottish cricket, I believe the situation in that sport is quite different. What can we do to get the Asian community more involved in football?

[lapsedhibee]

Jimmy Calderwood can't understand why he's not considered for Managerial positions. It's his favourite rant.
He's orange though. Perhaps colourism is a thing here?

[ballengeich]

He's orange though. Perhaps colourism is a thing here?

Unlikely. There are all too many places where an orange man is at an advantage.

[CRAZYHIBBY]

why do black managers always try to play the racist card... black managers are a minority in the game and its far more likely that they won't make the shortlist due to there being better candidates rather than skin colour. Also the amount of black players in the leagues blows the racism ideology right out the window.

[Allant1981]

I have a friend who is a Muslim and some of the attitudes and questions he has been asked when applying for jobs is staggering. It does exist in Scotland.

I know when i have people applying for jobs with us i dont see names etc when reading application forms that HR have sent so its done purely off the application, maybe more companies should be like this

[lyonhibs]

It's to do with simple numbers and statistics IMO. About 99% of all managers are retired players and the majority manage teams in the countries that they played in. In Latapy and Harpers day there were less black footballers playing in Scotland as there are now, just as there were even less still 10/20 years before their time. As a result there are simply less black retired footballers looking for jobs in management at this time than white people.

I remember a former England player complaint about this a year or so back (I think it was Les Ferdinand or Sol Campbell) and I thought the same then as I do now - there were less black players playing in Britain in their day and so there are less retired black players looking to get into management now. Nothing more sinister than that.

For example, in the 16 years since 2000 there have been 41 black players to play for England which is 4 more than the number that played for England in the previous 128 years. I also read recently that 1 in 3 English Premier League players this year is black. I'm not sure what the numbers were like in 1997 when Campbell and Ferdinand were playing but I'd guess it's much lower.

When the current generation of footballers start to retire then there will undoubtedly be more black coaches and managers but it's not something that will just magically happen over night.


PS I have to admit that I've not read many replies to this thread so apologies if someone else has already said what I have

And that's basically it in a nutshell :agree:

[NAE NOOKIE]

For me Latapy and Harper both had reputations of the park that would stop me giving them coaching jobs. That being said Latapy was a genius with the ball at his feet and Harper played at a decent level but as coaches ..... No thanks. But the lack of ethnic minority's involved in football in Scotland is wrong

It seems to me that Latapy is a more mature guy than he was in his playing days ... the Hibs thing was 14 years ago, I doubt that is a factor these days.

[Smartie]

It seems to me that Latapy is a more mature guy than he was in his playing days ... the Hibs thing was 14 years ago, I doubt that is a factor these days.

It's funny how a few of these guys who were pretty wild during their playing days have gone on to coach.

By all accounts Duncan Ferguson is an excellent coach - I would never have seen that one coming.

I don't know if Hibs are different to other clubs but would anyone honestly even contemplate the ethnicity of Latapy or Harper if they were being linked with a move to Hibs? Both were excellent players, good guys and very popular with the fans. I'd be beyond disappointed if there was even a minor element within our fan base who would consider their ethnicity when discussing whether or not they should be given a leadership role at our club.

[NAE NOOKIE]

It's funny how a few of these guys who were pretty wild during their playing days have gone on to coach.

By all accounts Duncan Ferguson is an excellent coach - I would never have seen that one coming.

I don't know if Hibs are different to other clubs but would anyone honestly even contemplate the ethnicity of Latapy or Harper if they were being linked with a move to Hibs? Both were excellent players, good guys and very popular with the fans. I'd be beyond disappointed if there was even a minor element within our fan base who would consider their ethnicity when discussing whether or not they should be given a leadership role at our club.

Me too

[CropleyWasGod]

It seems to me that Latapy is a more mature guy than he was in his playing days ... the Hibs thing was 14 years ago, I doubt that is a factor these days.

He was on RS last night talking about this very thing.

He claims that, since moving into coaching, that kind of stuff just doesn't happen.

[Alfred E Newman]

Just about all the black players playing in Scotland are either English or foreign . They tend to return home when they finish playing.
I am 100% certain that if Leanne Dempster thought that Latapy or Harper could take Hibs up to the next level they would be among the favourites to succeed Stubbs.

[snooky]

What percentage of Scotland is of Asian decent?
Does the figure tie in with the amount of Asian coaches we have?
Just wondered. :whistle:

[500miles]

Kevin Harper will struggle to get a job with such a public profile after he got done for battering his wife.

Russell didn't have a great record as manager at T&T, but I'm surprised he hasn't been picked up by a lower league team. Certainly seemed to do well as part of Yogi's coaching staff.

There seem to be a few more Scottish black footballers kicking about, I think managerial numbers will follow.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

For me Latapy and Harper both had reputations of the park that would stop me giving them coaching jobs. That being said Latapy was a genius with the ball at his feet and Harper played at a decent level but as coaches ..... No thanks. But the lack of ethnic minority's involved in football in Scotland is wrong

I would suggest that these considerations come higher up the list than skin colour. That doesn't mean to say that it makes it any better, because everyone is allowed to right wrongs and no one is mistake free.

[Tapes99]

The day that Hibs or any other team in this country feel they have to appoint somebody based on their skin colour is the day I quit football.

Scots are over represented at managerial level and have been for years. 2 of them have won the EPL and a single Englishman hasn't. Perhaps we're naturally good at managing.

Cue equal representation in the 100m finals. C'mon Wells!

[Scouse Hibee]

Black swimmers are also subject to the same discrimination!

[lyonhibs]

The day that Hibs or any other team in this country feel they have to appoint somebody based on their skin colour is the day I quit football.

Scots are over represented at managerial level and have been for years. 2 of them have won the EPL and a single Englishman hasn't. Perhaps we're naturally good at managing.

Cue equal representation in the 100m finals. C'mon Wells!

However would we know that - if/when - Hibs appoint our first black manager it was done because they felt they "had to"?? Petrie/LD coming out and saying as much or something?

Bit of an odd statement. Given that practically none of us are privy to the motivations/discussions that go on behind closed doors when Hibs or anyone else is deciding upon a new manager, I doubt we'll ever know if that day comes, which I severely doubt it will.

Scotland, and especially the west of Scotland has produced an unbelievable number of top, top class managers for such a relatively small region.

[lapsedhibee]

Scots are over represented at managerial level and have been for years. 2 of them have won the EPL and a single Englishman hasn't. Perhaps we're naturally good at managing.

All the stranger then that there hasn't been more interest in Scot Harper's job applications.

PS Three of the biggest teams in Scotland are managed by non-Scots (and the fourth by a puppet).

[Tapes99]

However would we know that - if/when - Hibs appoint our first black manager it was done because they felt they "had to"?? Petrie/LD coming out and saying as much or something?

Bit of an odd statement. Given that practically none of us are privy to the motivations/discussions that go on behind closed doors when Hibs or anyone else is deciding upon a new manager, I doubt we'll ever know if that day comes, which I severely doubt it will.

Scotland, and especially the west of Scotland has produced an unbelievable number of top, top class managers for such a relatively small region.

We'd know of it in just the same way we "know" of this.

I'd hate to think Hibs would ever announce a new managers skin colour. Cringeworthy. I can't remember them doing it before.

[SJM]

No way they are.

[SJM]

All the stranger then that there hasn't been more interest in Scot Harper's job applications.

PS Three of the biggest teams in Scotland are managed by non-Scots (and the fourth by a puppet).

What experience and credentials does he bring to the table?

[lapsedhibee]

What experience and credentials does he bring to the table?

Being Scottish, he's naturally good at managing.

[Hibby70]

Harper claims to have had 2 replies from 10 and uses this as evidence of discrimination. We'd really have to compare his return with that of someone of the same experience applying for the same jobs to come up with proof.

[snooky]

My daughter (who is reasonably well qualified) has written for around 50 jobs and hasn't had a reply from one therefore 2 out of 10 would be classed as a good return from her experience. :coffee:

[mjhibby]

Does seems to me strange Latapy hasn't got a job after what he did at ict with Yogi. Doesnt mean there's racism involved could just be clubs going for safe options. No easy answer I'm afraid.

[Jim44]

I don't think that there is anything in this premise in Scottish football. On a similar vein but on a much larger and important scale, I would add that it's just as well for all of us that the folk who manage our NHS don't operate a racist policy in their appointment of health workers at all levels.

[lyonhibs]

Harper wants a wee dose in the real world of he thinks hearing back from 2 out of 10 job applications is particularly bad, cos it ain't.

[bigwheel]

Bunch of white guys commenting on views of black guys views on racism in football - I wonder who has the most credible views on this ? Hmmmm


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Turkish Green]

Given the percentage of black Scots compaired to black English, I would say that the situation is far worse down south. However, maybe Latapy and Harper are not the best examples of overlookedness as they may not have been manager material, certainly RL leaving his coaching position at ICT was not going to help his advancement.

[SJM]

Being Scottish, he's naturally good at managing.

Can't be worse than that English captain we had in charge to be honest.

[Alfred E Newman]

Bunch of white guys commenting on views of black guys views on racism in football - I wonder who has the most credible views on this ? Hmmmm


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So what are you insinuating ?

[My_Wife_Camille]

Bunch of white guys commenting on views of black guys views on racism in football - I wonder who has the most credible views on this ? Hmmmm


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
How do you know that any of us are white or indeed guys? Interesting assumption to make

[Tyler Durden]

I think it's unhelpful for Alex Smith and the LMA (?) to just dismiss this, as most posters here have.

There is such a thing as unconscious biase and IMO it wouldn't be a bad idea to see some sort of positive discrimination to redress the balance. More so in England but the SPFL shouldn't ignore this.

Is it the Rooney rule they have in the NFL? Giving a minority candidate the right to an interview. There's some merit in that approach IMO. Sport should lead the way on diversity and that's not limited to players

[mjhibby]

A bit too much heat in this debate me thinks.They may well perceive there to be racism but you surely can't say this obout people not replying to applications. It's the way it is nowadays where old fashioned manners just don't happen anymore. I'm not sure if them saying it out loud will help but as usual these debates get a lot of people worked up. Hopefully Latapy will get a post soon but on his ability as a coach and nothing else. I think he seems very frustrated that having done so well at ict a post elsewhere was a given. Obviously that's not the case for whatever reason.

[Tapes99]

I think it's unhelpful for Alex Smith and the LMA (?) to just dismiss this, as most posters here have.

There is such a thing as unconscious biase and IMO it wouldn't be a bad idea to see some sort of positive discrimination to redress the balance. More so in England but the SPFL shouldn't ignore this.

Is it the Rooney rule they have in the NFL? Giving a minority candidate the right to an interview. There's some merit in that approach IMO. Sport should lead the way on diversity and that's not limited to players

Some sports are far more diverse than others. Whoever is best should get the job or spot on the team.

I'm surprised nobody's campaigning for female managers. They're under represented too.

[superfurryhibby]

An interesting discussion here.First thoughts are that Harper needs to get his badges and take it from there. With Latapy the circumstances are different. He has never really been away from the game and has shown he is a decent coach whilst at Falkirk and Inverness. I would have thought he would be an appealing proposition for an aspiring club somehwere in our professional game, surely?

There seems little doubt that black guys have found it hard to find positions as managers down south, the proportion of black players to managers is way out of synch. This probably applies to other circumstances too. How many openly gay managers are there, or in fact openly gay players?

Top level Football is a very traditional and conservative profession. It's pretty much an exclusively male environment, aside from the odd physio etc and many of the people involved are not particularly well educated and often live quite cossetted and insular lives.

There is also the issue of footballing equivalent of Omerta mentality entrenched in the game. Many of us fans talk about football with passionand some insight and most of us have kicked a ball around a bit, yet deep down I feel there is a hidden world in the game. It is amazing how much collusion there is in supressing information from within clubs. You get the odd glimspe and the ocassional tabloid piece , but there is a heck of a lot that never makes it into the public domain.

Sometimes masks can slip, eh big Ron, but.

[Thecat23]

Black swimmers are also subject to the same discrimination!

No wonder there aren't many black swimmers. If you take the average black man and average white man you’re looking at 300grams difference in terms of skeletal mass.

[Tapes99]

No wonder there aren't many black swimmers. If you take the average black man and average white man you’re looking at 300grams difference in terms of skeletal mass.
Perhaps, but there's more to it. If it were down to skeletal mass, the orientals would be the best swimmers and women would be better than men. Europeans have large torsos and short limbs. Good for swimming. Africans have small torso and long limbs. Anatomically better suited to locomotion, I.e running.

[Scouse Hibee]

No wonder there aren't many black swimmers. If you take the average black man and average white man you’re looking at 300grams difference in terms of skeletal mass.

Whoosh

[Tyler Durden]

Some sports are far more diverse than others. Whoever is best should get the job or spot on the team.

I'm surprised nobody's campaigning for female managers. They're under represented too.

So there is a lack of black coaches in the UK because they're not as good coaches?

[Beefster]

Have a tan?

The poster in question has used that terminology a couple of times on this thread. I bet it gets some laughs down the local. Quality bants.

[Thecat23]

Whoosh

I did get it by the way, was just adding a fact that I once was told. 😎

[Danderhall Hibs]

Harper wants a wee dose in the real world of he thinks hearing back from 2 out of 10 job applications is particularly bad, cos it ain't.

Isn't it? Give me a shout if you want a hand with your cv. :greengrin

[Scouse Hibee]

I did get it by the way, was just adding a fact that I once was told. 😎

Fair doos :-)

[hibsbollah]

Harper wants a wee dose in the real world of he thinks hearing back from 2 out of 10 job applications is particularly bad, cos it ain't.

That really wasn't the central point he was making. Im guessing the folk mocking Russell and Kevin Harper on this thread havent actually listened to the programme but have instead taken a fairly rubbish BBC report and got some fake outrage going on. It seems that when a black person has the cheek to discuss racism in an intelligent way these days he's accused of 'playing the race card'.

[Scouse Hibee]

That really wasn't the central point he was making. Im guessing the folk mocking Russell and Kevin Harper on this thread havent actually listened to the programme but have instead taken a fairly rubbish BBC report and got some fake outrage going on. It seems that when a black person has the cheek to discuss racism in an intelligent way these days he's accused of 'playing the race card'.

Maybe because the race card as you call it is used too often for the wrong reasons. Crying wolf has masked some issues to the point where people now just dismiss them.

[hibsbollah]

Maybe because the race card as you call it is used too often for the wrong reasons. Crying wolf has masked some issues to the point where people now just dismiss them.

Which people? You mean people who dismiss allegations of racism automatically because they think the complainant is crying wolf? That sounds like a person who doesn't really care about living in a racist society.

[Scouse Hibee]

Which people? You mean people who dismiss allegations of racism automatically because they think the complainant is crying wolf? That sounds like a person who doesn't really care about living in a racist society.

Yes them people.

[hibsbollah]

Yes them people.

OK. Hopefully them people are in the minority then.

[Peevemor]

By way of comparison, a large proportion of players in the French leagues are either African or of African descent (especially N. Africa). There are very few in management positions.

Also, more often than not, African national teams arrive at the world cup with European managers.

Why? - I've no idea. These are simply observations on my part.

[Andy74]

By way of comparison, a large proportion of players in the French leagues are either African or of African descent (especially N. Africa). There are very few in management positions.

Also, more often than not, African national teams arrive at the world cup with European managers.

Why? - I've no idea. These are simply observations on my part.
It's not just football. It's just a fact that as reasonably recent additions in terms of immigration in most European nations black people have a generation or two to go until they have been significantly afforded the same opportunities to education, work etc. and it will take a while to filter through to being represented in management positions.

[Hibby Bairn]

My daughter (who is reasonably well qualified) has written for around 50 jobs and hasn't had a reply from one therefore 2 out of 10 would be classed as a good return from her experience. :coffee:

Is she black or white though?

[Dashing Bob S]

What about Kenny Black, he was a manager at Airdrie for a while.

Being Black never held Eric back as he got his Largs coaching badges and a post at Motherwell. Proves beyond a doubt that some people on here are just a little too sensitive.

[Hibby Bairn]

Some sports are far more diverse than others. Whoever is best should get the job or spot on the team.

I'm surprised nobody's campaigning for female managers. They're under represented too.

Especially black women. 😎

[Hibby Bairn]

Being Black never held Eric back as he got his Largs coaching badges and a post at Motherwell. Proves beyond a doubt that some people on here are just a little too sensitive.

John Brown. Craig Brown. Phil Brown.

[bigwheel]

John Brown. Craig Brown. Phil Brown.

Have you any idea how offensive that appalling attempt at humour is ?

[Hibby Bairn]

Have you any idea how offensive that appalling attempt at humour is ?

Just trying to inject a bit of light hearted humour into a thread that is overly serious based on virtually no clear evidence in Kevin Harper's case.

I have no idea whether institutional racism exists in football and neither do most if not all of the people commenting on this thread.

I have no idea why you would think my post was offensive. Really can't think why. Take a chill pill.

[Lago]

This echoes the row about no Black nominations for the Oscars, but as number of people in the film industry pointed out, maybe there weren't any good enough for nomination.

[Dashing Bob S]

This echoes the row about no Black nominations for the Oscars, but as number of people in the film industry pointed out, maybe there weren't any good enough for nomination.

Oscar noms are rarely solely based on how good performances are.

[Tyler Durden]

This thread has gone the same way as the Oscars one. Lots of ignorance and focusing on "Kevin Harper disnae deserve a job" or "Will Smiths film was crap, he doesn't deserve an Oscar".

Totally missing the point that it's not about individuals. In Latapys words, minorities are often not afforded the same opportunities. The doors aren't open to them. That's the issue that is worth consideration.

But nah - all these people just weren't good enough. Laughable naivety

[SJM]

This thread has gone the same way as the Oscars one. Lots of ignorance and focusing on "Kevin Harper disnae deserve a job" or "Will Smiths film was crap, he doesn't deserve an Oscar".

Totally missing the point that it's not about individuals. In Latapys words, minorities are often not afforded the same opportunities. The doors aren't open to them. That's the issue that is worth consideration.

But nah - all these people just weren't good enough. Laughable naivety

I'm pretty sure Sevcos own Warburton was in an even less minority to the closed shop that is apperently football when he jacked in the city stock markets to try and become a football manager. Did he apply for loads of jobs on the back of no experience? No, he went and done the lowest job possible, learned his trade showed what he could do and after many years of hard graft he finally got a chance at an unfashionable club and done extremely well. How Kevin Harper, with only a coaching role at a part time side can say he's being singled out because of race when he's not even completed is b class coaching courses is mental. Latapy also hasn't done his.

[Tyler Durden]

You continue to miss the point

[JK Rolling]

What about Kenny Black, he was a manager at Airdrie for a while.


Quality, I actually laughed out loud at this. :top marks

[hibsbollah]

This thread has gone the same way as the Oscars one. Lots of ignorance and focusing on "Kevin Harper disnae deserve a job" or "Will Smiths film was crap, he doesn't deserve an Oscar".

Totally missing the point that it's not about individuals. In Latapys words, minorities are often not afforded the same opportunities. The doors aren't open to them. That's the issue that is worth consideration.

But nah - all these people just weren't good enough. Laughable naivety

:agree: again, people need to focus on what has actually been said, not what a stereotype tells you has been said.

This bit got missed by everyone in the media AFAIK; Latapy said he asked his agent to look around Scotland for a few jobs (according to my search engine this is Jim McArthur Hibs old goalie). Latapy says the agent said there are some boardrooms where 'there would be no point in even applying'. Latapy then repeats this to the interviewer again, so nobody misses it. And immediately afterwards then Latapy starts explaining his concerns about underrepresentation/racism.

i think it's likely that because of his connections Latapys agent knew there were places Latapy wouldn't get a job because of the colour of his skin and told Russell. Which maybe explains why Russell feels justified enough and angry enough to speak about it now. He's not just flying a kite.

[Allant1981]

Have you any idea how offensive that appalling attempt at humour is ?

Its not really

[Allant1981]

This thread has gone the same way as the Oscars one. Lots of ignorance and focusing on "Kevin Harper disnae deserve a job" or "Will Smiths film was crap, he doesn't deserve an Oscar".

Totally missing the point that it's not about individuals. In Latapys words, minorities are often not afforded the same opportunities. The doors aren't open to them. That's the issue that is worth consideration.

But nah - all these people just weren't good enough. Laughable naivety

But latapy has had coaching jobs in the past so the doors are open, could it be that people just dont like him or his reputation has swayed things?

[Tyler Durden]

Well Latapy has had jobs with Yogi - not sure he's had any others? And Harper could be applying for jobs taking under 15s for all we know.

Put those 2 aside though, there's been 1 black manager in Scotland. Seem to be next to no back room staff in the top few divisions. In England there's been about 4/5 managers in recent years. Why is that? Why not admit there is a problem and look at measures to improve things?

[Steve20]

Have you any idea how offensive that appalling attempt at humour is ?

Offensive? Really? People need to stop being so sensitive about things. It's clear it wasn't coming across as offensive.

[Brightside]

Bunch of white guys commenting on views of black guys views on racism in football - I wonder who has the most credible views on this ? Hmmmm


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You can't get more much more racist than that view tbh.

[Brightside]

Some sports are far more diverse than others. Whoever is best should get the job or spot on the team.

I'm surprised nobody's campaigning for female managers. They're under represented too.

Indeed. One in all the leagues in Scotland.And i would reckon she is damn site better than Harper.

[Brightside]

This thread has gone the same way as the Oscars one. Lots of ignorance and focusing on "Kevin Harper disnae deserve a job" or "Will Smiths film was crap, he doesn't deserve an Oscar".

Totally missing the point that it's not about individuals. In Latapys words, minorities are often not afforded the same opportunities. The doors aren't open to them. That's the issue that is worth consideration.

But nah - all these people just weren't good enough. Laughable naivety

BUT there has to be a case made for racism in scottish football management. Ive not seen anyone make that case. What are the real stats. How many Black qualified managers have applied for jobs in scottish football and where turned down? We've had two mentioned and of those Kevin Harper isn't actually qualified for a senior role.

[easty]

This thread has gone the same way as the Oscars one. Lots of ignorance and focusing on "Kevin Harper disnae deserve a job" or "Will Smiths film was crap, he doesn't deserve an Oscar".

Totally missing the point that it's not about individuals. In Latapys words, minorities are often not afforded the same opportunities. The doors aren't open to them. That's the issue that is worth consideration.

But nah - all these people just weren't good enough. Laughable naivety

Aye, but Will Smiths film was crap.

[Beefster]

You can't get more much more racist than that view tbh.

Congrats. You win 'Most Ludicrous Post' despite some really tough competition.

[snooky]

Is she black or white though?

I've never noticed, TBH.

[Brightside]

Congrats. You win 'Most Ludicrous Post' despite some really tough competition.

The idea that someone with a different colour of skin cannot have a qualified opinion on something easily wins "Most Ludicrous Post" We don't live in the 70s now.

[Beefster]

The idea that someone with a different colour of skin cannot have a qualified opinion on something easily wins "Most Ludicrous Post" We don't live in the 70s now.

The post you replied to didn't say that and I doubt it was intended to imply that either.

[Brightside]

The post you replied to didn't say that and I doubt it was intended to imply that either.

"bunch of white guys views on the opinion of black guys in football" i can give a view on whatever i like. I do not have to be black to discuss issues that black people face, and just because you are black doesn't mean you can't be just as wrong as the slavering white guy.

By the way how many Polish managers in scottish football? My view is there is no issue with racism in the decision making process for managerial appointments in scotland.

I have as yet seen no examples to suggest otherwise.

If Kevin wants to improve his CV there are hundreds of opportunities for coaching staff through out scottish football. Including in the womens game.

[NYHibby]

How Kevin Harper, with only a coaching role at a part time side can say he's being singled out because of race when he's not even completed is b class coaching courses is mental. Latapy also hasn't done his.

To be clear though, Harper has done his B badge and is currently working on his A badge. Latapy has done his pro badge, the top level. It’s not like these guys have absolutely no coaching qualifications nor are they applying for jobs where it is clear that they are completely unqualified for.

[Brightside]

To be clear though, Harper has done his B badge and is currently working on his A badge. Latapy has done his pro badge, the top level. It’s not like these guys have absolutely no coaching qualifications.

He had a brief stint at Airdrie u20s....which he left as it was getting in the way of his full time job. He is now helping out at a junior side.

[Beefster]

"bunch of white guys views on the opinion of black guys in football" i can give a view on whatever i like. I do not have to be black to discuss issues that black people face, and just because you are black doesn't mean you can't be just as wrong as the slavering white guy.

By the way how many Polish managers in scottish football? My view is there is no issue with racism in the decision making process for managerial appointments in scotland.

I'm starting to wonder if you actually read the post or just read a bit, assumed the rest and went off on one. The post that you took exception to implied that a black person is more likely to be credible on the topic of whether racism exists than someone who has no experience but 'thinks' it doesn't exist. It's a valid point.

I used to think that anti-English abuse in Edinburgh was a thing of the past before I started seeing an English woman. As a Scotsman, my opinion was wrong just because I hadn't had a reason to experience it before. Just because we're entitled to an opinion doesn't make that opinion right.

I'm just bemused by the sentence about Polish managers.

[hibsbollah]

I do not have to be black to discuss issues that black people face.

No ones saying that.

But if a black person like Russell Latapy is saying 'I am experiencing racism' and a white person is saying 'no you're not, you don't understand' as is happening on occasions on this thread, it comes across as ridiculous. I can't put it any better than Beefster did already, it's like me and my mates sitting around the pub saying landmines aren't a problem because I haven't stepped on one yet.

[bigwheel]

"bunch of white guys views on the opinion of black guys in football" i can give a view on whatever i like. I do not have to be black to discuss issues that black people face, and just because you are black doesn't mean you can't be just as wrong as the slavering white guy.

.

Beefster and Hibsbollah's responses were perfect. I did not say that you or anyone else didn't have a right to have an opinion . We have two black coaches feeling that their race may be an issue in securing a role in football here. Let's respect their views on this topic, more than others who have not "walked in their shoes". Let's explore it ,understand it and learn from it. Rather than dismiss it.







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Andy74]

No ones saying that.

But if a black person like Russell Latapy is saying 'I am experiencing racism' and a white person is saying 'no you're not, you don't understand' as is happening on occasions on this thread, it comes across as ridiculous. I can't put it any better than Beefster did already, it's like me and my mates sitting around the pub saying landmines aren't a problem because I haven't stepped on one yet.

That's not really correct though is it unless he has actually experienced racism in terms of that being the reason he isn't getting some jobs. We don't know that.

[superfurryhibby]

That's not really correct though is it unless he has actually experienced racism in terms of that being the reason he isn't getting some jobs. We don't know that.

Latapy was very clear that his agent advised him not to apply for certain jobs on the basis that there were insurmountable barriers in the board room. His agent is a well established and you have to assume his advice was given in good faith.

As I said earlier, we the fans know surprsingly little about what goes on behind closed doors in Scottish football. Remarkable code of silence helps keep the closed shop door firmly shut.

[Andy74]

Latapy was very clear that his agent advised him not to apply for certain jobs on the basis that there were insurmountable barriers in the board room. His agent is a well established and you have to assume his advice was given in good faith.

As I said earlier, we the fans know surprsingly little about what goes on behind closed doors in Scottish football. Remarkable code of silence helps keep the closed shop door firmly shut.

Again where is the proof that race has anything to do with it?

[superfurryhibby]

Again where is the proof that race has anything to do with it?

Do you expect written statements?

Can you seriously doubt it?

[Andy74]

Do you expect written statements?

Can you seriously doubt it?

When you make serious allegations some evidence is usually useful, yes.

[Hibernia&Alba]

It's the kind of issue that requires a proper investigation to know for sure. I don't know whether there is racism at grass roots level and in the club boardrooms, but, as in wider society, it would be naïve to assume it doesn't exist. To what extent it circumscribes the employment opportunities of black coaches and managers I'm not qualified to say.

[FranckSuzy]

kevin harper ‏@Kevinharper07 (https://twitter.com/Kevinharper07) 10m10 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/Kevinharper07/status/716016862560124928) After the personal attack on my character from the reporter Euan Mclean who may have a bigger audience than me.

kevin harper ‏@Kevinharper07 (https://twitter.com/Kevinharper07) 9m9 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/Kevinharper07/status/716017343424512001)
. I feel I have to respond and address the issues.

kevin harper ‏@Kevinharper07 (https://twitter.com/Kevinharper07) 7m7 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/Kevinharper07/status/716017786816970752)
1. Firstly there are managers managing in scotland with a UEFA 'B' licence and the jobs I have applied for accept a UEFA 'B' licence coach

kevin harper ‏@Kevinharper07 (https://twitter.com/Kevinharper07) 7m7 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/Kevinharper07/status/716017936570458113)
working towards there UEFA 'A' licence which I am doing

kevin harper ‏@Kevinharper07 (https://twitter.com/Kevinharper07) 7m7 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/Kevinharper07/status/716018084344176640)
2. Bringing up something from 8 years ago in my past and not knowing the full circumstances around it is pathetic and insinuating

kevin harper ‏@Kevinharper07 (https://twitter.com/Kevinharper07) 6m6 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/Kevinharper07/status/716018240376406016)
that because of it I shouldn't get an opportunity in football. With this statement Euan Mclean's words

kevin harper ‏@Kevinharper07 (https://twitter.com/Kevinharper07) 6m6 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/Kevinharper07/status/716018424665751554)
With that rap sheet you’d be doing well to get a job stacking shelves in Tesco


kevin harper ‏@Kevinharper07 (https://twitter.com/Kevinharper07) 5m5 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/Kevinharper07/status/716018539753299968) let alone a prominent role in the heart of a community that demands every manager be a figurehead for the young men"

kevin harper ‏@Kevinharper07 (https://twitter.com/Kevinharper07) 5m5 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/Kevinharper07/status/716018724197822464)

there are others in the game that have got opportunities did he forget about them ???

kevin harper ‏@Kevinharper07 (https://twitter.com/Kevinharper07) 5m5 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/Kevinharper07/status/716018938228916224)
3. Look at the facts and research not 1 black or ethnic manager in scotland for over 13years.

kevin harper ‏@Kevinharper07 (https://twitter.com/Kevinharper07) 5m5 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/Kevinharper07/status/716019097251803136)
Lastly I was asked my opinion on the subject the lack of black and ethnic managers in Scottish football and did I think there was a problem

kevin harper ‏@Kevinharper07 (https://twitter.com/Kevinharper07) 4m4 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/Kevinharper07/status/716019379528409092)
through nothing but again myself answering a question to what I thought.

kevin harper ‏@Kevinharper07 (https://twitter.com/Kevinharper07) 4m4 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/Kevinharper07/status/716019469018120192)
I think he should look at the facts and figures and then have a conversation with myself then go to print.

kevin harper ‏@Kevinharper07 (https://twitter.com/Kevinharper07) 4m4 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/Kevinharper07/status/716019562093879297)
Tune into bbc radio scotland tomorrow 12-2pm for more on my opinion. Thanks Kevin https://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/72x72/26bd.pnghttps://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/72x72/26bd.pnghttps://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/72x72/26bd.pnghttps://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/72x72/26bd.png

[CropleyWasGod]

Do you expect written statements?

Can you seriously doubt it?
In Latapy's case, I might doubt it to an extent. There is an "insurmountable problem" in the Hibs boardroom in that Petrie was part of the regime that sacked him. I doubt he'd get over the door, purely for that history.

There may be others that take that view, justified or not. In saying that, there may be some that use the history as an excuse.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[FranckSuzy]

kevin harper ‏@Kevinharper07 (https://twitter.com/Kevinharper07) 27m27 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/Kevinharper07/status/716019202348478464) I gave my opinion based on my experience and the statistics. But a reporter who doesn't know me attempts to assassinate my character

[JimBHibees]

It is a difficult one as there really aren't too many Black players in Scotland who have played in Scotland and want a coaching job in Scotland. Football is a hugely cliquey business IMO and managers tend to want people they know to assist them as coaches as they trust them as many times in the past if a manager gets sacked the Assistant takes over so who can you trust. I wouldn't be so quick to doubt what both these guys are saying as they may have personal experience of racist attitudes however a difficult one unless they list specific cases though that would open them to a one word against another argument. There will definitely be racists working in football as they represent society though.

[easty]

It is a difficult one as there really aren't too many Black players in Scotland who have played in Scotland and want a coaching job in Scotland. Football is a hugely cliquey business IMO and managers tend to want people they know to assist them as coaches as they trust them as many times in the past if a manager gets sacked the Assistant takes over so who can you trust. I wouldn't be so quick to doubt what both these guys are saying as they may have personal experience of racist attitudes however a difficult one unless they list specific cases though that would open them to a one word against another argument. There will definitely be racists working in football as they represent society though.

:agree:

I just think that if you're going to make a point about racism then you have to be able to back it up with something, anything. If Latapy has been told not to apply for jobs because some people just won't employ a black person, then tell us who those people are, and why there's reason to believe thats the case.

[Beefster]

:agree:

I just think that if you're going to make a point about racism then you have to be able to back it up with something, anything. If Latapy has been told not to apply for jobs because some people just won't employ a black person, then tell us who those people are, and why there's reason to believe thats the case.

If Latapy (or anyone) came out and said to the newspapers that his agent told him not to apply to Club X because Chairman Bob is a racist prick who is forever running down minorities and using terms from the 70s, he'd likely get sued for libel, have to defend it as hearsay and go from having little chance of getting a manager's job in Scotland to having no chance.

IMHO a big part of the issue is that racism is insidious. For every racist prick that is open about it, I'd imagine that there are hundreds more who aren't (or don't even realise that they're racist).

[Rory]

Are Black coaches held back in scotland ?
I was on a white one to the cup final and we got stuck in traffic after Perth so it can work both ways really.

[Scouse Hibee]

Are Black coaches held back in scotland ?
I was on a white one to the cup final and we got stuck in traffic after Perth so it can work both ways really.

Don't give up your day job.

[Baader]

Given the active sectarianism that was allowed to prevail and to an extent still is within Scottish football its hardly unthinkable that race could be an issue.