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RSS Bot
23-03-2016, 03:30 PM
More... (http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/6321)

lucky
23-03-2016, 06:58 PM
This is a fantastic opportunity for young kids and great thinking by Hibs.

Brightside
23-03-2016, 07:50 PM
This is a fantastic opportunity for young kids and great thinking by Hibs.

It really shows how far backwards we've gone as a club. Are we really thinking this will find some hidden gems? The best footballers at this level are at the best clubs they aren't missing out coz they were born in November!!

coldingham hibs
23-03-2016, 08:00 PM
It really shows how far backwards we've gone as a club. Are we really thinking this will find some hidden gems? The best footballers at this level are at the best clubs they aren't missing out coz they were born in November!!

I think the reason may be that players born later in the year are often pushed up into an older age group and may not stand out as much as they would playing in their proper age group.

Brightside
23-03-2016, 08:08 PM
I think the reason may be that players born later in the year are often pushed up into an older age group and may not stand out as much as they would playing in their proper age group.

I get the theory...but my point is this is not a way to find decent players for Hibs. Its just a daft bit of publicity. Since when could laddies just turn up for a trial at Hibs?

coldingham hibs
23-03-2016, 08:25 PM
I get the theory...but my point is this is not a way to find decent players for Hibs. Its just a daft bit of publicity. Since when could laddies just turn up for a trial at Hibs?

I understand where your coming from but from my experience and for example, when I watch a game with 2 teams of a particular age group there may be a stand out player who instantly catches your attention however there may be another player who is also good but not quite as good as the stand out. The person scouting will not know that the player who isn't quite as good should actually be in a younger age group and if he was then he may be the stand out player in his age group.

So because the player is playing in the wrong age group he may be overlooked.

I suspect this is Hibs trying to catch one or two where this may have happened.

Hope that makes sense.

SquashedFrogg
23-03-2016, 08:42 PM
I get the theory...but my point is this is not a way to find decent players for Hibs. Its just a daft bit of publicity. Since when could laddies just turn up for a trial at Hibs?

:rolleyes: You are a bafoon my friend

Brightside
23-03-2016, 09:00 PM
:rolleyes: You are a bafoon my friend

aye very good. I know dozens of kids born in november i'll take a bus load up for a game! You find the best young talent by building relationships with the best youth teams. Not by organising days like these.

Gatecrasher
23-03-2016, 09:32 PM
aye very good. I know dozens of kids born in november i'll take a bus load up for a game! You find the best young talent by building relationships with the best youth teams. Not by organising days like these.
It's just a trial for some kids, chill out :hilarious

Ozyhibby
23-03-2016, 11:05 PM
aye very good. I know dozens of kids born in november i'll take a bus load up for a game! You find the best young talent by building relationships with the best youth teams. Not by organising days like these.

The best youth teams don't have many kids born in the 4th quarter.


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truehibernian
23-03-2016, 11:13 PM
I get the theory...but my point is this is not a way to find decent players for Hibs. Its just a daft bit of publicity. Since when could laddies just turn up for a trial at Hibs?

I'll play devils advocate and say nepotism in youth football over decades has prevented really good prospects getting a chance, so what's to lose here ? The SFA academies are very tough to get into and I've seen good talent slip through the net due to unreal pressures put on kids in these arenas.

In my day Hutchie and Salveson supplied nearly all the Edinburgh contingent to Hibs, Hearts and Dundee (who all trained at Riccarton for a period) - there were superb players at Tynie, Inch BC, Royston Roseberry - overlooked because their old man never managed Meadowbank or their old boy played up front for Hearts - and it still goes on. Remember Graeme Miller play for Hibs ? Never ever in a million years was he good enough to be a pro let alone be at Hibs.

Any days like these should be encouraged - beats seeing kids on PlayStation and who knows there may be a lad who's not had the opportunity or indeed confidence to play in a youth team yet.

Ozyhibby
23-03-2016, 11:22 PM
The relative age effect is well documented. This is a smart move by the club.
In English academies 57% of kids are born in the 1st quarter and 14% in the 4th quarter. Clubs are missing out on talent and any club that finds a way to get to that talent will benefit.
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/18891749


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Billy Whizz
23-03-2016, 11:25 PM
The relative age effect is well documented. This is a smart move by the club.
In English academies 57% of kids are born in the 1st quarter and 14% in the 4th quarter. Clubs are missing out on talent and any club that finds a way to get to that talent will benefit.
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/18891749


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Ozy, when I played boys football the year started on 1st August. Is it now the calendar year for age groups?

Ozyhibby
23-03-2016, 11:42 PM
Ozy, when I played boys football the year started on 1st August. Is it now the calendar year for age groups?

Calendar year in Scotland and Aug in England.



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Eyrie
24-03-2016, 12:10 AM
Remember Graeme Miller play for Hibs ? Never ever in a million years was he good enough to be a pro let alone be at Hibs.

And there was his brother Greg who also got a few games for us and was equally talent-free.

Ozyhibby
24-03-2016, 01:21 AM
Coincidently STV have just put this out.
http://stv.tv/sport/football/303738-why-your-birthday-might-help-you-become-scotlands-next-football-talent/


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lucky
24-03-2016, 08:33 AM
It really shows how far backwards we've gone as a club. Are we really thinking this will find some hidden gems? The best footballers at this level are at the best clubs they aren't missing out coz they were born in November!!

What have Hibs got to lose by doing this? If Hibs find a boy great if not we've spent an afternoon training some boys. Nothing backwards in trying something different.

CapitalGreen
24-03-2016, 09:24 AM
Below is a breakdown of the birth months for players listed on the official site who are aged 23 or below.

Jan 2
Feb 2
Mar 4
Apr 8
May 0
Jun 1
Jul 3
Aug 2
Sep 0
Oct 2
Nov 0
Dec 0

leggeto
24-03-2016, 09:43 AM
I agree with underscore with it being a publicity thing,the good bit is some kids will have a good experience,hibs have a pro youth team so don't think they will find any hidden gems,maybe send more scouts out on a Saturday/Sunday morning to find one playing for their team

Brightside
24-03-2016, 10:15 AM
I agree with underscore with it being a publicity thing,the good bit is some kids will have a good experience,hibs have a pro youth team so don't think they will find any hidden gems,maybe send more scouts out on a Saturday/Sunday morning to find one playing for their team

The problem Hibs have is the lack of good scouts. Half of them are just football fans and are given no structure as to what to look for. I honestly think Hibs should stop wasting money on Pro Youth until the kids get to 14. Pulling in kids at 7 years and upwards is just a nonsense and a waste of resource.

Ozy - re your point about kids in that 1/4 not making it into the top teams I would disagree - there a plenty born in those months playing with the tops teams at the ages Hibs are looking at. The problem youth football actually has is putting players into teams based on age. It should all be on physical attributes until they are 14+. But that would take a bit of thinking from the SFA.

Brightside
24-03-2016, 10:16 AM
Below is a breakdown of the birth months for players listed on the official site who are aged 23 or below.

Jan 2
Feb 2
Mar 4
Apr 8
May 0
Jun 1
Jul 3
Aug 2
Sep 0
Oct 2
Nov 0
Dec 0

In other words random - we have 2 in Jan (oldest) and 2 in Oct (youngest).

Ozyhibby
24-03-2016, 10:20 AM
I agree with underscore with it being a publicity thing,the good bit is some kids will have a good experience,hibs have a pro youth team so don't think they will find any hidden gems,maybe send more scouts out on a Saturday/Sunday morning to find one playing for their team

The problem is some kids in 4th quarter getting ignored by youth team coaches. At club I coach with we have 40+ kids. In top team (10 kids) we have 8 kids born in first half of year and 2 in second half of the year (both 3rd quarter) and our bottom team has the exact opposite of 8 kids born 2nd half of year and and 2 first half of the year.
Scouts don't watch games in the bottom leagues.
The science of this is well proven and it happens no matter when the cut off date is. In England all the best players are born in August,September or Oct. in Scotland its Jan, Feb or March.



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Ozyhibby
24-03-2016, 10:23 AM
The problem Hibs have is the lack of good scouts. Half of them are just football fans and are given no structure as to what to look for. I honestly think Hibs should stop wasting money on Pro Youth until the kids get to 14. Pulling in kids at 7 years and upwards is just a nonsense and a waste of resource.

Ozy - re your point about kids in that 1/4 not making it into the top teams I would disagree - there a plenty born in those months playing with the tops teams at the ages Hibs are looking at. The problem youth football actually has is putting players into teams based on age. It should all be on physical attributes until they are 14+. But that would take a bit of thinking from the SFA.

I agree on your first point. They would be better educating coaches and leaving kids at their local clubs. Pro youth is a poor set up.


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Ozyhibby
24-03-2016, 10:25 AM
In other words random - we have 2 in Jan (oldest) and 2 in Oct (youngest).

Or 8 in first quarter and 2 in 4th quarter. Not random at all but in line with the relative age effect.


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CapitalGreen
24-03-2016, 10:49 AM
Birth month data for Hearts players 23 and younger listed on their official site.

Jan 2
Feb 4
Mar 1
Apr 2
May 5
Jun 3
Jul 2
Aug 1
Sep 1
Oct 2
Nov 0
Dec 0

Ozyhibby
24-03-2016, 11:06 AM
Birth month data for Hearts players 23 and younger listed on their official site.

Jan2
Feb4
Mar1
Apr2
May5
Jun3
Jul2
Aug1
Sep1
Oct2
Nov0
Dec0

Exact same pattern then?


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Brightside
24-03-2016, 11:06 AM
The problem is some kids in 4th quarter getting ignored by youth team coaches. At club I coach with we have 40+ kids. In top team (10 kids) we have 8 kids born in first half of year and 2 in second half of the year (both 3rd quarter) and our bottom team has the exact opposite of 8 kids born 2nd half of year and and 2 first half of the year.
Scouts don't watch games in the bottom leagues.
The science of this is well proven and it happens no matter when the cut off date is. In England all the best players are born in August,September or Oct. in Scotland its Jan, Feb or March.



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so we shouldn't put kids in age groups. assign them by ability ignore age.

Ozyhibby
24-03-2016, 11:17 AM
so we shouldn't put kids in age groups. assign them by ability ignore age.

I would agree with that if I didn't know that teams would game a system with that much flexibility to win matches.
Another solution could be for leagues to be set up by age not date. So a league would be only for 8 year olds. On your birthday you move into the team and your the youngest player and as the year goes on you adapt until the very end of the year and you are the oldest kid before it starts all again. Spurs are now doing this with all their youth teams.


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leggeto
24-03-2016, 11:31 AM
The problem Hibs have is the lack of good scouts. Half of them are just football fans and are given no structure as to what to look for. I honestly think Hibs should stop wasting money on Pro Youth until the kids get to 14. Pulling in kids at 7 years and upwards is just a nonsense and a waste of resource.

Ozy - re your point about kids in that 1/4 not making it into the top teams I would disagree - there a plenty born in those months playing with the tops teams at the ages Hibs are looking at. The problem youth football actually has is putting players into teams based on age. It should all be on physical attributes until they are 14+. But that would take a bit of thinking from the SFA.

think the kids need to enjoy the football before it gets to the 11s,that's where the scouts will find the better ones,I think plucking them at 9 or 12 years old is too young but the experience will be good for them,7s is good but there is not a lot of football played to get the familiar with the 11s,its all good passing and movement but when they hit the big pitch its a bit of a hoof fest sometimes and they have to get physical

Brightside
24-03-2016, 11:57 AM
think the kids need to enjoy the football before it gets to the 11s,that's where the scouts will find the better ones,I think plucking them at 9 or 12 years old is too young but the experience will be good for them,7s is good but there is not a lot of football played to get the familiar with the 11s,its all good passing and movement but when they hit the big pitch its a bit of a hoof fest sometimes and they have to get physical

The experience isn't good for them. There are plenty of 8/9/10 yo up there now whose football has gone backwards since getting involved. The coaching is very poor. Leave them with coaches who have been developing them for years - come back when they are at an age where you have proper full time coaches who have the ability to take them to the next level. Hibs do not have that at the moment...so stop wasting time and money on it.

CapitalGreen
24-03-2016, 12:27 PM
Using available data for 103 Players from Hibs, Hearts, Rangers, Aberdeen and Dun Utd.

Jan 11%
Feb 14%
Mar 17%
Apr 14%
May 7%
Jun 6%
Jul 9%
Aug 10%
Sep 3%
Oct 7%
Nov 2%
Dec 3%

Q1 41%
Q2 26%
Q3 21%
Q4 12%

Ozyhibby
24-03-2016, 12:32 PM
Using available data for 103 Players from Hibs, Hearts, Rangers, Aberdeen and Dun Utd.

Jan11%
Feb14%
Mar17%
Apr14%
May7%
Jun6%
Jul9%
Aug10%
Sep3%
Oct7%
Nov2%
Dec3%

Q141%
Q226%
Q321%
Q412%

Pretty obvious pattern there.


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Ozyhibby
24-03-2016, 12:33 PM
The experience isn't good for them. There are plenty of 8/9/10 yo up there now whose football has gone backwards since getting involved. The coaching is very poor. Leave them with coaches who have been developing them for years - come back when they are at an age where you have proper full time coaches who have the ability to take them to the next level. Hibs do not have that at the moment...so stop wasting time and money on it.

Totally agree on this point.


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lyonhibs
24-03-2016, 03:12 PM
Is the distribution of births even remotely evenly spread across any given year anyway??

I'm a Feb birthday and I've always had the impression that there more birthdays around about the same time as mine than later in the year.

I imagine the discrepancy won't be as large as in the stats above, but worth considering.

Bowtow
24-03-2016, 03:15 PM
Just feels so wrong to me, Hibs do not hold open day trials for kids, but because of birth dates lets have a open day trial for kids born in the months October, November and December.

Why not open day trials say twice a year or more? let everyone who has gone unseen by the scouts have a chance.

Ozyhibby
24-03-2016, 03:29 PM
Is the distribution of births even remotely evenly spread across any given year anyway??

I'm a Feb birthday and I've always had the impression that there more birthdays around about the same time as mine than later in the year.

I imagine the discrepancy won't be as large as in the stats above, but worth considering.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160324/fea3879e2ef0d8d7370abfb38e1dd615.jpg



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lyonhibs
24-03-2016, 04:38 PM
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160324/fea3879e2ef0d8d7370abfb38e1dd615.jpg



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Shows you how observant I am then 😝

Ozyhibby
24-03-2016, 04:51 PM
Just feels so wrong to me, Hibs do not hold open day trials for kids, but because of birth dates lets have a open day trial for kids born in the months October, November and December.

Why not open day trials say twice a year or more? let everyone who has gone unseen by the scouts have a chance.

I doubt it will be a full trial as such. More a chance for Hibs to take note of a few kids so that they can see how they are doing back at their clubs.


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Ozyhibby
24-03-2016, 04:56 PM
Shows you how observant I am then [emoji13]

I didn't know either, I had to look it up. [emoji3]


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CapitalGreen
24-03-2016, 05:02 PM
Players recently capped for Scotland U19 & U21. 57 players looked at with players who have developed in English youth system removed.

Jan 18%
Feb 12%
Mar 11%
Apr 12%
May 4%
Jun 7%
Jul 9%
Aug 9%
Sep 5%
Oct 7%
Nov 2%
Dec 5%

Q1 40%
Q2 23%
Q3 23%
Q4 14%

Ozyhibby
24-03-2016, 05:16 PM
Players recently capped for Scotland U19 & U21. 57 players looked at with players who have developed in English youth system removed.

Jan18%
Feb12%
Mar11%
Apr12%
May4%
Jun7%
Jul9%
Aug9%
Sep5%
Oct7%
Nov2%
Dec5%

Q140%
Q223%
Q323%
Q414%

Nice work on the stats. The pattern is well established and Hibs have done wel to spot something they can exploit.


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bob12345
27-03-2016, 08:46 PM
This venture is the main talking point on Youth Football Scotland tonight. Most of the feedback seems positive: https://www.facebook.com/likeyfs/photos/a.199510540090352.46371.184845868223486/1109287552445975/?type=3&comment_id=1109406599100737&notif_t=photo_comment

Benny Brazil
27-03-2016, 09:31 PM
Think I might take my son along - even if its just for the experience of being at the training centre and to see what the coaching is like.
He was born 31st Dec and can be playing against kids who are nearly a full year older than him, so whilst technically he is just as good, physically he can be at a slight disadvantage.
Cant see the harm in Hibs doing this.

Danderhall Hibs
27-03-2016, 10:10 PM
Think I might take my son along - even if its just for the experience of being at the training centre and to see what the coaching is like.
He was born 31st Dec and can be playing against kids who are nearly a full year older than him, so whilst technically he is just as good, physically he can be at a slight disadvantage.
Cant see the harm in Hibs doing this.

I know there's got to be a cut off but if he'd been born a few hours later he could be the big player compared to struggling against the bigger guys.

coldingham hibs
28-03-2016, 04:49 PM
Attached is a link which shows what Hibs are up against. Hearts with 5 Regional Academy Centres costing £50K per year.

Hibs asking players to travel many miles to train at East Mains in rush hour traffic.

This is the issue with getting & retaining the best youth players. Unless there is a large financial commitment we will play 2nd fiddle in recruiting the best players.

Academy's need to be accessible.

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hydc-funding-five-new-coaching-centres-for-hearts-1-3850320

Ozyhibby
28-03-2016, 04:53 PM
Attached is a link which shows what Hibs are up against. Hearts with 5 Regional Academy Centres costing £50K per year.

Hibs asking players to travel many miles to train at East Mains in rush hour traffic.

This is the issue with getting & retaining the best youth players. Unless there is a large financial commitment we will play 2nd fiddle in recruiting the best players.

Academy's need to be accessible.

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hydc-funding-five-new-coaching-centres-for-hearts-1-3850320

Being out at East Mains is def a problem for us. We need something in Edinburgh.

liamh2202
28-03-2016, 08:08 PM
Being out at East Mains is def a problem for us. We need something in Edinburgh.

I have to disagree? Its 15 mins from edinburgh by car? When i was a youth player we trained at dalziel park in motherwell. Now that was out the way , i would be shocked if we had lost out on anyone because our training centre is at east mains.

Benny Brazil
28-03-2016, 08:38 PM
I have to disagree? Its 15 mins from edinburgh by car? When i was a youth player we trained at dalziel park in motherwell. Now that was out the way , i would be shocked if we had lost out on anyone because our training centre is at east mains.

Its not 15mins for most people though. Living in South Queensferry it can be anything up to an 3/4 hour depending on traffic - maybe more. People on this side of the city would be similar.

We definitely need to branch out and have places more accessible - plenty of Junior clubs round about with really good facilities - where they could run sessions during the week and then use the Training Centre at weekends. I understand it adds more cost though.

Brightside
28-03-2016, 08:45 PM
Its not 15mins for most people though. Living in South Queensferry it can be anything up to an 3/4 hour depending on traffic - maybe more. People on this side of the city would be similar.

We definitely need to branch out and have places more accessible - plenty of Junior clubs round about with really good facilities - where they could run sessions during the week and then use the Training Centre at weekends. I understand it adds more cost though.

The links with clubs don't work if Hibs keep trying to take the kids to play for them. Create the link, monitor, wait...let them develop have an agreement that they get first dibs at 13/14.

Future17
28-03-2016, 08:49 PM
I honestly don't understand why anyone would put a negative slant on this.

What have we possibly got to lose? :confused:

Brightside
28-03-2016, 08:59 PM
I honestly don't understand why anyone would put a negative slant on this.

What have we possibly got to lose? :confused:

My view is that youth football is a total waste of money for Hibs at the moment. If you are going to do it half arsed don't do it at all. Very few teams can afford to do it properly at the moment.

Benny Brazil
28-03-2016, 09:02 PM
The links with clubs don't work if Hibs keep trying to take the kids to play for them. Create the link, monitor, wait...let them develop have an agreement that they get first dibs at 13/14.

I agree with that - dont think any kid should be getting "signed" until they start their teens.

Ozyhibby
28-03-2016, 09:08 PM
I have to disagree? Its 15 mins from edinburgh by car? When i was a youth player we trained at dalziel park in motherwell. Now that was out the way , i would be shocked if we had lost out on anyone because our training centre is at east mains.

How old were you?

liamh2202
28-03-2016, 10:04 PM
How old were you?

13-17

Ozyhibby
28-03-2016, 10:54 PM
13-17

That's a bit older than 9-10 which is the age they ask them out there now. It can be a big ask for a kid that age to head out there a couple nights a week when they have school in the morning.
I don't know why they don't run the sessions for this age group in town?

Loopz
28-03-2016, 11:16 PM
That's a bit older than 9-10 which is the age they ask them out there now. It can be a big ask for a kid that age to head out there a couple nights a week when they have school in the morning.
I don't know why they don't run the sessions for this age group in town?
C, Scott was telling me today a boy from his school has just moved from Hibs to Hearts due to reduced travelling time from Fife.

Cammy
30-03-2016, 09:05 PM
I sent an email to register my son for this, does anyone know if hibs send an acknowledgment or do you just turn up and hope that they received the email?

Benny Brazil
31-03-2016, 04:32 PM
I sent an email to register my son for this, does anyone know if hibs send an acknowledgment or do you just turn up and hope that they received the email?

I got an email response - but it was 24hrs after I sent my email.

Cammy
31-03-2016, 05:18 PM
I got an email response - but it was 24hrs after I sent my email.

Thanks BB

I got a response today, 7 days after I sent the email. They were probably doing them all at the same time. :aok:

coldingham hibs
31-03-2016, 05:57 PM
C, Scott was telling me today a boy from his school has just moved from Hibs to Hearts due to reduced travelling time from Fife.

If this is the same player I know he was already training with Hearts as well as Hibs but clearly travel is a big issue and its disappointing he has chosen Hearts.

Hibs.Net would do well to support regional training, funding a Astro pitch for one hour, one night a week would allow 3 or more of the younger age groups to train.

Couldn't say for sure what the cost would be per centre but I'd imagine about £2-£3K per year.

coldingham hibs
07-04-2016, 07:21 PM
Anyone know how the trials went today?.

Anybody have a kid taking part?

Benny Brazil
08-04-2016, 05:48 PM
Anyone know how the trials went today?.

Anybody have a kid taking part?

My son went - he enjoyed it, they did a couple of fitness tests then played a game.
Think there was over 30 kids there.

coldingham hibs
08-04-2016, 06:25 PM
My son went - he enjoyed it, they did a couple of fitness tests then played a game.
Think there was over 30 kids there.

Good stuff, was he successful, I know a few were asked back.

Ozyhibby
08-04-2016, 07:02 PM
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35054310


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Billy Whizz
08-04-2016, 07:11 PM
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35054310


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Did you go along today

Ozyhibby
08-04-2016, 07:31 PM
Did you go along today

Yes, it was an interesting day. Well attended. Hibs had it very well organised and the boys seemed to enjoy it.

Billy Whizz
08-04-2016, 07:37 PM
Yes, it was an interesting day. Well attended. Hibs had it very well organised and the boys seemed to enjoy it.

That's great, hope it gave the boys a bit of an incentive to kick on, and Hibs found it worthwhile

Benny Brazil
09-04-2016, 10:29 AM
Good stuff, was he successful, I know a few were asked back.

No he wasn't mate. Don't get me wrong I would obviously have loved if it he was asked back - but for me he isn't ready for it. He has only been playing football for a club for just under a year (probably has only played about 15 games given the weather and holidays) now so he still needs to learn and develop.

But he enjoyed the whole experience and that was the main thing and it has made him want to go back to his club and continue to develop.

bob12345
15-04-2016, 11:06 PM
A review of the day is now available with some video highlights and interviews: http://www.youthfootballscotland.co.uk/south-east-region/item/18936-watch-hibernian-fc-run-fourth-quarter-kids-recruitment-event.html

bob12345
17-04-2016, 09:59 PM
Giving this a bump as it got lost in the weekend celebrations. Has been the talk of the youth football community this weekend. Worth a watch.