Scottish Parliament Elections 2016

[marinello59]

Had a leaflet in from the Tories today. No mention of who the local candidate is, all the focus was on Ruth Davidson. Another leaflet from Labour which made reference to local issues which was good to see.
Also had the SNP candidate at the door, have to admit he was pretty impressive. Nowt from the Greens or LibDems yet.

[Moulin Yarns]

Had a leaflet in from the Tories today. No mention of who the local candidate is, all the focus was on Ruth Davidson. Another leaflet from Labour which made reference to local issues which was good to see.
Also had the SNP candidate at the door, have to admit he was pretty impressive. Nowt from the Greens or LibDems yet.
I got both Scottish Green and LibDem today.

LibDem is a Willie Rennie promo while the Scottish Green one is for my top region list candidate.

[Pretty Boy]

Only had 1 leaflet so far, from Labour.

Expecting the usual mountain behind the door in the coming days.

[AndyM_1875]

Had leaflets from Labour (twice), SNP and Tories.
Been canvassed by Labour who appear to be going round the houses and seem to have the most focused campaign. They are the only ones doing door knocking in my area.

Not seen any other activity.

[SHODAN]

No leaflets, no politicians at my door, nowt. Was the same last year - only the Tories sent us a leaflet.

[Sergio sledge]

I've had leaflets from the Tories, Labour and the SNP, all for candidates who are not standing in my constituency.... To be fair, we do live right on the constituency border so it must be easy to get confused.

[JeMeSouviens]

We've had a steady stream of recyclable material and a visit from the Tories. At least I assume it was the Tories, I told him not to waste his time and sent him on his way based purely on the colour of his rosette.

[snooky]

As far as political flyers are concerned, the only parties I'm interested in are the Andrex & Delsey ones.

[ronaldo7]

Ive had 2 labour posted. 3 Snp hand delivered, and one from some lassie decanting from the weege to edinburgh. The only one at the door has been the lib dems who got short shrift.

[ronaldo7]

For the few Kippers on here.:wink:

Hooray for Hollywood.:tee hee:

16389

[AndyM_1875]

Ive had 2 labour posted. 3 Snp hand delivered, and one from some lassie decanting from the weege to edinburgh. The only one at the door has been the lib dems who got short shrift.

Once you've thrown all the leaflets in the recycler, might I recommend this to you.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Poor-Had-No-Lawyers-Scotland/dp/178027310X/ref=la_B0034OO3HA_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1460743858&sr=1-1

Utterly superb read.

[One Day Soon]

Ive had 2 labour posted. 3 Snp hand delivered, and one from some lassie decanting from the weege to edinburgh. The only one at the door has been the lib dems who got short shrift.

What's up with the SNP campaign in Edinburgh South? We've had no leaflets from them this time where in the Indyref and GE we were inundated. Seems an odd change.

Two posted from Labour, one absolutely abysmal effort from the Lib Dems and nothing else.

[Mr Grieves]

What's up with the SNP campaign in Edinburgh South? We've had no leaflets from them this time where in the Indyref and GE we were inundated. Seems an odd change.

Two posted from Labour, one absolutely abysmal effort from the Lib Dems and nothing else.
I'm in Edinburgh North and Leith and received my first SNP leaflets today - one from the constituency candidate, one Sturgeon leaflet and both myself and the wife received a "personal" letter - I'm sure you'll be inundated soon enough!

Apart from that I've had the comical Lesley Hinds leaflet. The only way Labour would have got my constituency vote is if Chisolm was standing again. Hinds would be a pathetic MSP.

[danhibees1875]

I'm in Edinburgh North and Leith and received my first SNP leaflets today - one from the constituency candidate, one Sturgeon leaflet and both myself and the wife received a "personal" letter - I'm sure you'll be inundated soon enough!

Apart from that I've had the comical Lesley Hinds leaflet. The only way Labour would have got my constituency vote is if Chisolm was standing again. Hinds would be a pathetic MSP.

What is it about hinds that you don't like?

Don't know much about her, other than that she's running in my region.

[ronaldo7]

What's up with the SNP campaign in Edinburgh South? We've had no leaflets from them this time where in the Indyref and GE we were inundated. Seems an odd change.

Two posted from Labour, one absolutely abysmal effort from the Lib Dems and nothing else.

:dunno: Maybe they've been put off by the big poster of Ruthie in your window.:greengrin

[SHODAN]

Update - had leaflets from Labour, Tories, Lib Dems, Greens and the SNP on the same day. No UKIP, which is probably for the best because it'd be getting sent back to them in pieces.

[Moulin Yarns]

http://www.scotvote16.com/#!/

a wee bit of fun

[Mr Grieves]

What is it about hinds that you don't like?

Don't know much about her, other than that she's running in my region.
She's been involved in the incompetence of our council for many years.

[speedy_gonzales]

http://www.scotvote16.com/#!/

a wee bit of fun
Tried to answer as honest & as best I could;

UKIP @ 17 (out of 100)
Lib Dem @ 14
Labour @ 13
Tory @ 13
SNP @ 10
Greens @ 5

All very weak matches to party manifestos & policies but still thoroughly disgusted with myself that UKIP came out on top,,,,might try again until I get the right answer!

[Pretty Boy]

http://www.scotvote16.com/#!/

a wee bit of fun

38 Labour
37 Green
30 SNP
-6 UKIP
-12 Conservatives.

About what I expected tbh.

[MyJo]

SNP 31
Greens 24
Labour 15
Lib Dem 10
Conservative 3
UKIP -3


sounds about right to be fair

[danhibees1875]

http://www.scotvote16.com/#!/

a wee bit of fun

Interesting!

Greens 31
Snp 30
Lib dem21
Labour 15
Conservatives 0
UKIP -20

I was a tad unsure who to vote previous, greens don't have a candidate in my area and I'm not entirely convinced by snp... this hasn't cleared too much up but it was fun!

[JeMeSouviens]

http://www.scotvote16.com/#!/

a wee bit of fun

SNP 49
Green 36
Lab 15
Lib 4
Tory -16
UKIP -22

[Moulin Yarns]

SNP 49
Green 36
Lab 15
Lib 4
Tory -16
UKIP -22

Green 51
SNP 49
Lab 28
Lib 25
UKIP -27
Toy -28

[steakbake]

Green 51
SNP 50
LD 19
Lab 13
Tory -17
UKIP -25

[Hibrandenburg]

http://www.scotvote16.com/#!/

a wee bit of fun

No surprises!

[Moulin Yarns]

Interesting!

Greens 31
Snp 30
Lib dem21
Labour 15
Conservatives 0
UKIP -20

I was a tad unsure who to vote previous, greens don't have a candidate in my area and I'm not entirely convinced by snp... this hasn't cleared too much up but it was fun!

Glenrothes will have Green candidates on the list, SNP will romp the Constituency vote anyway. IMHO

[danhibees1875]

Glenrothes will have Green candidates on the list, SNP will romp the Constituency vote anyway. IMHO
I'm Edinburgh north and Leith now, although your comments all probably still hold true.

[ronaldo7]

SNP 68
Greens 53
Lab 18
Lib 8
Tory -35
Ukip -45

[SHODAN]

Mine was much the same as everyone else's - high on SNP and Greens, weak on Labour/Lib Dems, negative on the Tories/Little Englanders. SNP for certain in the constituency, not sure whether to pick the Greens or the SNP in the list vote.

[marinello59]

SNP 68
Greens 53
Lab 18
Lib 8
Tory -35
Ukip -45

Reverse the Greens and the SNP score and mine was practically the same as yours. :greengrin

[R'Albin]

Green - 45
SNP - 40
Labour - 15
Ukip - - 22
Tory - - 36

[The Harp Awakes]

SNP 59
Greens 40
Labour 23
Lib Dem 7
Tory -25
UKIP -32

The only disappointment for me in those results is having a positive for the Lib Dems. Can't stand Willie Rennie and they are an absolute joke of a party. Can't believe how much air time they are getting on TV. Every sentence Willie Rennie utters has ''SNP' in it:brickwall

[steakbake]

SNP 59
Greens 40
Labour 23
Lib Dem 7
Tory -25
UKIP -32

The only disappointment for me in those results is having a positive for the Lib Dems. Can't stand Willie Rennie and they are an absolute joke of a party. Can't believe how much air time they are getting on TV. Every sentence Willie Rennie utters has ''SNP' in it:brickwall

Rennie is very disappointing. I can't listen to him either.

When you consider the LibDems have provided a pretty high standard of Scottish politicians over the years (Campbell, Steele, Kennedy), he's a political midget by comparison.

[Colr]

I'm not eligible but:-

Conservative 45
UKIP 30
Labour 5
Liberal -2
SNP -7
Green -27


Interesting but I'm not sure it reflects how I would vote.

[Moulin Yarns]

I'm not eligible but:-

Conservative 45
UKIP 30
Labour 5
Liberal -2
SNP -7
Green -27


Interesting but I'm not sure it reflects how I would vote.

Jeeze. The exact opposite of just about everyone else I know.


Kinda glad you don't have a vote

[NYHibby]

This will be the first British election I'm eligible to vote

Conservative 23
Lib Dems 20
SNP 13
Greens 13
UKIP 9
Labour 3

I seem to have lower scores across the board than everyone else.

[Hibrandenburg]

This will be the first British election I'm eligible to vote

Conservative 23
Lib Dems 20
SNP 13
Greens 13
UKIP 9
Labour 3

I seem to have lower scores across the board than everyone else.

Could be because you've no minus scores.

[AndyM_1875]

Labour 34
Green 32
LibDem 31
SNP 24
UKIP -7
Tories -9

Jings! :greengrin

[flash]

SNP. 46
Green 38
Labour 27
Lib Dem 15
Tory -17
UKIP -22.

Happy enough with that.

[ronaldo7]

I always thought Labour were a bit Hello Hello.

https://t.co/NRR7k18JNZ

[JeMeSouviens]

Just watching a frankly incredulous Bernard Ponsonby interview Kezia Dugdale. Car crash doesn't begin to describe it.

Ipsos Mori for Stv has Labour trailing in 3rd behind the tories on a 17% list vote.

[ronaldo7]

Just watching a frankly incredulous Bernard Ponsonby interview Kezia Dugdale. Car crash doesn't begin to describe it.

Ipsos Mori for Stv has Labour trailing in 3rd behind the tories on a 17% list vote.

The lassie's out of her depth. She'd be better following her parents into teaching, her soft tones would do well with the Primary 1's.

[steakbake]

Just watching a frankly incredulous Bernard Ponsonby interview Kezia Dugdale. Car crash doesn't begin to describe it.

Ipsos Mori for Stv has Labour trailing in 3rd behind the tories on a 17% list vote.

I'm not one to say I told people so, but... I thought this would happen.

I kind of feel sorry for Dugdale. The manifesto launch was a disaster today and launching it 8 days before the election? What on earth....?

If they come 3rd, how they come back from it, I don't know.

Does that concern me? No, not in the slightest. Blown it big time.

[snooky]

I'm not one to say I told people so, but... I thought this would happen.

I kind of feel sorry for Dugdale. The manifesto launch was a disaster today and launching it 8 days before the election? What on earth....?

If they come 3rd, how they come back from it, I don't know.

Does that concern me? No, not in the slightest. Blown it big time.

Here here <sic> :wink:

[RyeSloan]

Just watching a frankly incredulous Bernard Ponsonby interview Kezia Dugdale. Car crash doesn't begin to describe it. Ipsos Mori for Stv has Labour trailing in 3rd behind the tories on a 17% list vote.

No surprises re the Labour vote...they really are no marks in Scotland now. The SNP have pretty much taken most of the ground Labour used to occupy and left them with nothing apart from tax rises to differentiate themselves. Turkey's don't vote for Christmas so why vote Labour over SNP? The only other main difference is Indy and again Labour are nowhere...want some one to defend the Union vote Tory, want Indy vote SNP...want a muddle and a guddle vote Labour.

The Tories have done well to mark themselves out as a clear alternative and with every other opposition party on the other side (more tax, more spending, more government, more this, more that) I can see why they will attract a reasonable share of the vote. They have also been quite realistic in their ambitions, they know they will only appeal to a sub set of the electorate but have targeted them well and have played strongly to the point that these people are not well represented by the other parties.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I'm not one to say I told people so, but... I thought this would happen.

I kind of feel sorry for Dugdale. The manifesto launch was a disaster today and launching it 8 days before the election? What on earth....?

If they come 3rd, how they come back from it, I don't know.

Does that concern me? No, not in the slightest. Blown it big time.

Thought it was quite amusing when she was asked about Willie Rennie in an interview and responded "to be honest I've not got much time for Willie" not sure if she realised what she had said or not. :-)

[Moulin Yarns]

Thought it was quite amusing when she was asked about Willie Rennie in an interview and responded "to be honest I've not got much time for Willie" not sure if she realised what she had said or not. :-)

That was the Gary:Tank Commander interview. Not exactly serious but very funny. Like Ruth Davidson discussed dinosaurs

[Green Man]

Good to see a lot of people getting high scores for the Scottish Greens. Get them on your list vote folks :aok:

For me:
Greens 56
SNP 53
Lib Dem 26
Labour 15
Conservative -40
UKIP -41

Not really a surprise as I'm a member of the Scottish Greens :greengrin:

[ronaldo7]

I knew the Labour had moved onto the Tories ground a while ago, but it seems they liked it so much, they decided to stay there.

https://t.co/CXSCWo63yz

[steakbake]

I knew the Labour had moved onto the Tories ground a while ago, but it seems they liked it so much, they decided to stay there.

https://t.co/CXSCWo63yz

They probably are. There'll be quite a few Blairites amongst them who might have been Tories pre-1997 meltdown but were attracted to the centre ground.

Certainly know a few stick-on Labour voters who were solid Rifkind voters back in the day.

[snooky]

Thought it was quite amusing when she was asked about Willie Rennie in an interview and responded "to be honest I've not got much time for Willie" not sure if she realised what she had said or not. :-)

Good spot, Hutch :wink:

[snooky]

Disasterous news for the SNP! The Sun is apparently backing them.
Jeez, and just when they were doing so well :greengrin

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-36167247

[Moulin Yarns]

A wee bit about the fun poll I put up.

More than 10,000 Scots have used a Voter Guidance poll being run by researchers from Strathclyde University. Labour voters prove to be less likely than SNP supporters to give a left-wing response, which means they support greater government *intervention.



http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/holyrood-2016-labour-voters-less-left-wing-than-snp-finds-study-1-4114150


In total, 73 per cent of SNP voters can be classified as left wing, while 44 per cent of Labour supporters fall into this category.

[Hibrandenburg]

A wee bit about the fun poll I put up.

More than 10,000 Scots have used a Voter Guidance poll being run by researchers from Strathclyde University. Labour voters prove to be less likely than SNP supporters to give a left-wing response, which means they support greater government *intervention.



http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/holyrood-2016-labour-voters-less-left-wing-than-snp-finds-study-1-4114150


In total, 73 per cent of SNP voters can be classified as left wing, while 44 per cent of Labour supporters fall into this category.

Kinda puts the "Tartan Tories" argument to bed.

[ronaldo7]

Kinda puts the "Tartan Tories" argument to bed.

:agree: And moves the Red Tories tag front and centre.:greengrin

Meanwhile in court today...Marie Rimmer Labour MP.

https://t.co/PQyzLUjj2g

[marinello59]

Kinda puts the "Tartan Tories" argument to bed.

I'm not so sure it does as it's about how voters identify themselves. If it was looking at policies then the SNP's alignment with the Tories on income tax, the council tax and Nicola Sturgeons support for Gove style reform of our schools would paint a different picture.
As it is the childish competition between some SNP and Labour supporters as to who is the most left wing is utterly meaningless or it should be. It doesn't matter if a policy is tagged left or right wing, it's whether it's the right policy or not. I'd support the SNP's stance on two of the three policies I mentioned above and would do so regardless of which party proposed them.

[snooky]

:agree: And moves the Red Tories tag front and centre.:greengrin

Meanwhile in court today...Marie Rimmer Labour MP.

https://t.co/PQyzLUjj2g

:rolleyes:
.

[Hibrandenburg]

I'm not so sure it does as it's about how voters identify themselves. If it was looking at policies then the SNP's alignment with the Tories on income tax, the council tax and Nicola Sturgeons support for Gove style reform of our schools would paint a different picture.
As it is the childish competition between some SNP and Labour supporters as to who is the most left wing is utterly meaningless or it should be. It doesn't matter if a policy is tagged left or right wing, it's whether it's the right policy or not. I'd support the SNP's stance on two of the three policies I mentioned above and would do so regardless of which party proposed them.

But surely voters identify themselves with the party they see as being representative of what they themselves value, or are you insinuating that the electorate are thick after ticking me off on several occasions for suggesting similar? :greengrin

[stoneyburn hibs]

I'm not so sure it does as it's about how voters identify themselves. If it was looking at policies then the SNP's alignment with the Tories on income tax, the council tax and Nicola Sturgeons support for Gove style reform of our schools would paint a different picture.
As it is the childish competition between some SNP and Labour supporters as to who is the most left wing is utterly meaningless or it should be. It doesn't matter if a policy is tagged left or right wing, it's whether it's the right policy or not. I'd support the SNP's stance on two of the three policies I mentioned above and would do so regardless of which party proposed them.

Not that it needs put to bed imo, the tartan Tories tag is the best "fight" that any Labourite can put up atm, sad really.

[marinello59]

Not that it needs put to bed imo, the tartan Tories tag is the best "fight" that any Labourite can put up atm, sad really.

Just as sad as the Red Tories tag thrown at Labour. It's playground politics from both sides.

[marinello59]

But surely voters identify themselves with the party they see as being representative of what they themselves value, or are you insinuating that the electorate are thick after ticking me off on several occasions for suggesting similar? :greengrin

I'm suggesting nothing of the kind. I'm really not sure how you come to that conclusion from what I said there.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Polling average


Party
Constituency vote
Regional list vote


SNP
52%
45%


Scottish Labour
20%
19%


Scottish Conservatives
17%
18%


Scottish Lib Dems
6%
6%


Scottish Greens
-
9%


UKIP
-
3%




i'm astonished 1 in 5 will possibly vote Labour :( maybe the old habits die hard group :)

[ronaldo7]

[QUOTE=marinello59;4664412]I'm not so sure it does as it's about how voters identify themselves. If it was looking at policies then the SNP's alignment with the Tories on income tax, the council tax and Nicola Sturgeons support for Gove style reform of our schools would paint a different picture.
As it is the childish competition between some SNP and Labour supporters as to who is the most left wing is utterly meaningless or it should be. It doesn't matter if a policy is tagged left or right wing, it's whether it's the right policy or not. I'd support the SNP's stance on two of the three policies I mentioned above and would do so regardless of which party proposed

Do the Tories have the same policy on tax as the Snp? I must have missed that, I thought they were keeping tax as per Osbornes policy.

[marinello59]

Do the Tories have the same policy on tax as the Snp? I must have missed that, I thought they were keeping tax as per Osbornes policy.

Did you miss Gavin Brown hailing the SNP as a fiscally Conservative party when they decided to go with Osbourne's basic rate of income tax? He also welcomed them as part of a taxpayers alliance.
I think the SNP got that one right, raising tax even by a penny would have been the wrong thing to do. Whether the policy is left or right wing really shouldn't matter if it's the right policy for Scotland. Gavin Brown was mischief making with his comments but he certainly touched a nerve with those desperate to be labelled left wing.

[ronaldo7]

I'm not so sure it does as it's about how voters identify themselves. If it was looking at policies then the SNP's alignment with the Tories on income tax, the council tax and Nicola Sturgeons support for Gove style reform of our schools would paint a different picture.
As it is the childish competition between some SNP and Labour supporters as to who is the most left wing is utterly meaningless or it should be. It doesn't matter if a policy is tagged left or right wing, it's whether it's the right policy or not. I'd support the SNP's stance on two of the three policies I mentioned above and would do so regardless of which party proposed them.


Did you miss Gavin Brown hailing the SNP as a fiscally Conservative party when they decided to go with Osbourne's basic rate of income tax? He also welcomed them as part of a taxpayers alliance.
I think the SNP got that one right, raising tax even by a penny would have been the wrong thing to do. Whether the policy is left or right wing really shouldn't matter if it's the right policy for Scotland. Gavin Brown was mischief making with his comments but he certainly touched a nerve with those desperate to be labelled left wing.

So when you said in bold that the SNP were aligned with the Tories, you actually got it wrong, and the situation where the SNP were not actually the same on the front end of tax where they would have a £12,750 threshold instead of Osborne's £12,500, by the end of the parliament, and they won't be the same on the upper tax threshold either.

If you say it long enough, it'll become .net fact eh:wink:

Ah couldnae gie a freuchie what another Broon said...IT WAS WRONG.

I'm sure I could come up with alternatives to your council tax dig, and the "Gove style" education reforms but some don't deal in facts.:aok:

[Mr Grieves]

Polling average


Party
Constituency vote
Regional list vote


SNP
52%
45%


Scottish Labour
20%
19%


Scottish Conservatives
17%
18%


Scottish Lib Dems
6%
6%


Scottish Greens
-
9%


UKIP
-
3%




i'm astonished 1 in 5 will possibly vote Labour :( maybe the old habits die hard group :)

SNP dropping points in the polls, not that it'll make much of a difference to the number of seats they win. People switching to Labour due to all of the independence talk? Or all the talk of the tories finishing second?

As an aside, Ruth Davidson has to be the most over rated politician in Scotland. Her campaign has basically involved day after day of ever increasingly ridiculous photos while being able to avoid serious questions about the UK government's policies because she's so pally with those in the media.

[ronaldo7]

SNP dropping points in the polls, not that it'll make much of a difference to the number of seats they win. People switching to Labour due to all of the independence talk? Or all the talk of the tories finishing second?

As an aside, Ruth Davidson has to be the most over rated politician in Scotland. Her campaign has basically involved day after day of ever increasingly ridiculous photos while being able to avoid serious questions about the UK government's policies because she's so pally with those in the media.

It's where we live. The MSM is owned and occupied by the rich, and don't care what the oiks think.

[ronaldo7]

16456

This is the father of the Labour candidate in Renfrewshire south taking down all the SNP Placards. They're playing dirty again.

Maybe it's just a fake photo though.:wink:

[Beefster]

16456

This is the father of the Labour candidate in Renfrewshire south taking down all the SNP Placards. They're playing dirty again.

Maybe it's jus a fake photo though.:wink:

Politics in Scotland is awesome.

[ronaldo7]

Politics in Scotland is awesome.

I suppose it beats beefing pigs heads eh.

[marinello59]

So when you said in bold that the SNP were aligned with the Tories, you actually got it wrong, and the situation where the SNP were not actually the same on the front end of tax where they would have a £12,750 threshold instead of Osborne's £12,500, by the end of the parliament, and they won't be the same on the upper tax threshold either.

If you say it long enough, it'll become .net fact eh:wink:

Ah couldnae gie a freuchie what another Broon said...IT WAS WRONG.

I'm sure I could come up with alternatives to your council tax dig, and the "Gove style" education reforms but some don't deal in facts.:aok:

:faf: As I said, Gavin Brown was mischief making but he certainly did hit a nerve with some.
Digs? I agree with the SNP on income tax, I disagree with the council tax freeze. I think Nicola Sturgeon really does want to reform the way education is delivered and I hope she does. That there are similarities to current Tory policy is neither here nor there to me. I guess it is different when you are on the terraces though.:greengrin

[ronaldo7]

:faf: As I said, Gavin Brown was mischief making but he certainly did hit a nerve with some.
Digs? I agree with the SNP on income tax, I disagree with the council tax freeze. I think Nicola Sturgeon really does want to reform the way education is delivered and I hope she does. That there are similarities to current Tory policy is neither here nor there to me. I guess it is different when you are on the terraces though.:greengrin

There you go again. The differences are there for all to see. Glad you agree on income tax policy with the SNP. Don't hold your breath though, it will be changing again.:wink:

[marinello59]

I suppose it beats beefing pigs heads eh.


:faf: I love random stuff like this. Are you feeling OK though?:greengrin


There you go again. The differences are there for all to see. Glad you agree on income tax policy with the SNP. Don't hold your breath though, it will be changing again.:wink:

Erm.......I said similarities. Are you sure you are OK? :greengrin

[ronaldo7]

:faf: I love random stuff like this. Are you feeling OK though?:greengrin



Erm.......I said similarities. Are you sure you are OK? :greengrin

I'm Braw, how are you, looking forward to Friday morning.:greengrin

[Beefster]

I suppose it beats beefing pigs heads eh.

Em, probably. If I had to choose. I'll hold my hands up though, I'm not really qualified to judge.

[ronaldo7]

Em, probably. If I had to choose. I'll hold my hands up though, I'm not really qualified to judge.

I'll request someone asks dodgy dave for you, then you'll ken.:aok:

[marinello59]

I'm Braw, how are you, looking forward to Friday morning.:greengrin

I am, I love the morning after elections. I've struggled with this one on just who to vote for. My original intention was to go with the candidate who I thought would best represent the local area. That's been binned. I don't know what it's like in everyone else's area but they have all been pretty anonymous around here.
I really don't think any of the other contenders have done enough to suggest that they will be an improvement on the last SNP administration who, like Labour did before them, have done a decent job of managing the country. It looks like two votes for more of the same from me.
The race for second is going to the interesting battle. I expect The Tories to win that one, they really are pushing Ruth Davidson rather than the candidates on their literature, it could pay off for them.

[steakbake]

Tories and Labour are pretty much neck and neck in the latest poll: Labour 20-21, Tories 20-20. Add in the often quoted "shy Tory" effect and could that be a shock on the cards?

[marinello59]

Tories and Labour are pretty much neck and neck in the latest poll: Labour 20-21, Tories 20-20. Add in the often quoted "shy Tory" effect and could that be a shock on the cards?

Would the Tories finishing ahead of Labour actually be a shock? I fully expect it to happen.

[Glory Lurker]

Tell you what's getting my goat big time, the Tories pretending their party is called Ruth Davidson.

[Jonnyboy]

Would the Tories finishing ahead of Labour actually be a shock? I fully expect it to happen.

Wouldn't be a shock, J but it would pretty much confirm, if confirmation is needed, that the Scottish Labour Party is a shambles and may toil for many years to get anywhere near where it was before!

[Hibbyradge]

Tell you what's getting my goat big time, the Tories pretending their party is called Ruth Davidson.

A bit like the SNP being the Nicola Sturgeon party?

I guarantee you that the Labour Party wish they had an asset like either of those two.

And Ruth Davidson is pish.

[snooky]

You have to admire Tim Wigmore in the New Statesman. For a man who is Oxford educated and is a mega sports writer on that wonderful game cricket, he has managed to produce an article telling us how bad the SNP is doing up here in Scotland. I'm honoured that he has taken time off his cricket world to offer his sound political advice to a country who doesn't give monkey's toss about his beloved game.
The guy's a saint - you gotta love him :greengrin

[marinello59]

Tell you what's getting my goat big time, the Tories pretending their party is called Ruth Davidson.

The SNP are Nicola Sturgeon as well apparently. Just Nicola to the faithful though. :greengrin

[steakbake]

Reports of last minute jitters in the SNP camp about securing an overall majority...?

Is this true or a last minute eye-catcher to ensure people go both votes SNP?

Certainly wouldn't be the worst if they had to secure agreements from the Greens.

[pacoluna]

Reports of last minute jitters in the SNP camp about securing an overall majority...?

Is this true or a last minute eye-catcher to ensure people go both votes SNP?

Certainly wouldn't be the worst if they had to secure agreements from the Greens.

They will secure an overall majority by quite a margin.. However I think there will be a few people who don't give them their second vote in order to try and boost the amount of pro- Inde/green mp's in opposition.

[AndyM_1875]

Reports of last minute jitters in the SNP camp about securing an overall majority...?

Is this true or a last minute eye-catcher to ensure people go both votes SNP?

Certainly wouldn't be the worst if they had to secure agreements from the Greens.

I agree. The Greens would destroy the SNP's Fracking ambitions which would be no bad thing.

[RyeSloan]

I agree. The Greens would destroy the SNP's Fracking ambitions which would be no bad thing.

That depends on your view point...losing the potential jobs, local economic benefit, tax revenue and skills that fracking could bring may well be a bad thing.

[marinello59]

That depends on your view point...losing the potential jobs, local economic benefit, tax revenue and skills that fracking could bring may well be a bad thing.

The decision should be science lead, the case hasn't been made either way yet despite the propaganda machine from the Greens being in full swing. If North Sea oil was discovered today they would be tring to strangle the industry at birth.

[Moulin Yarns]

The decision should be science lead, the case hasn't been made either way yet despite the propaganda machine from the Greens being in full swing. If North Sea oil was discovered today they would be tring to strangle the industry at birth.


Here are a couple of articles from USA about Fracking.

Not conclusive, by any means, but might help form opinions on the risks and benefits of Unconventional gas extraction



[URL=]http://www.livescience.com/34464-what-is-fracking.html (]http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/energy/g161/top-10-myths-about-natural-gas-drilling-6386593/[/URL)

And in the UK



[URL=]http://www.bgs.ac.uk/research/energy/shaleGas/howMuch.html (]http://www.lse.ac.uk/GranthamInstitute/faqs/what-potential-reserves-of-shale-gas-are-there-in-the-uk/[/URL)

Remember also that a lot of oil has already been extracted from shale in Scotland (James 'Paraffin' Young), which means reserves of hydrocarbons are already depleted making it possibly uneconomic to extract gas in Scotland.

[RyeSloan]

The decision should be science lead, the case hasn't been made either way yet despite the propaganda machine from the Greens being in full swing. If North Sea oil was discovered today they would be tring to strangle the industry at birth.

While I agree that any fracking should be completed under appropriate regulation I'm pretty sure this 'science led' argument is a bit of a red herring. Fracking has been around for quite a while and applied on and offshore in the UK since the 1980's, allied to the fact that it's use is common place in the states etc I find it hard to believe that their is not enough evidence already to make a definitive decision.

I think it's much more of a political hot potato rather than a science puzzle that reminds me somewhat of the Heathrow decision where the politicians are much more concerned about the political backlash of any decision than actually the facts and practical benefits (or otherwise) of that decision.

[Glory Lurker]

M59, Mr Radge - point is that they are saying "Vote Ruth Davidson ", doing everything to avoid mentioning their "brand". Anyhow, sounds like youse are trying to stop my goat being got by the Tories. Come on, can a man not be allowed to get riled at that bunch if he wants?? Nanny (goat) state! :-)

[AndyM_1875]

That depends on your view point...losing the potential jobs, local economic benefit, tax revenue and skills that fracking could bring may well be a bad thing.

For me the risks are too high. The cases of methane leakage and environmental destruction in Australia and the US are a real concern.

The argument that the SNP made a deal with the devil when they worked with Ineos to sort out Grangemouth's future carries weight here as Ineos are the lead players pushing for Fracking and UGE in Scotland and the licenses have already been sold to them.

[Hibs Class]

M59, Mr Radge - point is that they are saying "Vote Ruth Davidson ", doing everything to avoid mentioning their "brand". Anyhow, sounds like youse are trying to stop my goat being got by the Tories. Come on, can a man not be allowed to get riled at that bunch if he wants?? Nanny (goat) state! :-)

At the last holyrood election, in Lothian the posters at polling stations were to vote for Alex Salmond for first minister even though he wasnt standing in Lothian. They all choose whichever brand they think is least toxic

[Hibbyradge]

M59, Mr Radge - point is that they are saying "Vote Ruth Davidson ", doing everything to avoid mentioning their "brand". Anyhow, sounds like youse are trying to stop my goat being got by the Tories. Come on, can a man not be allowed to get riled at that bunch if he wants?? Nanny (goat) state! :-)

Genius post!

I withdraw my previous remarks!

[heretoday]

It's a lack lustre election. Nicola is the only charismatic leader. I reckon the vote will be well down but SNP will win with a slightly increased majority.

[marinello59]

M59, Mr Radge - point is that they are saying "Vote Ruth Davidson ", doing everything to avoid mentioning their "brand". Anyhow, sounds like youse are trying to stop my goat being got by the Tories. Come on, can a man not be allowed to get riled at that bunch if he wants?? Nanny (goat) state! :-)

:greengrin

[marinello59]

It's a lack lustre election. Nicola is the only charismatic leader. I reckon the vote will be well down but SNP will win with a slightly increased majority.

This might be the high point of the cult of Nicola.
A couple of days ago I thought that the other parties hadn't done enough to convince me to vote for a change of management. I also don't think that the SNP have said anything throughout this campaign that demands they be voted back in.
Aye, lack lustre sums it all up.

[Moulin Yarns]

This might be the high point of the cult of Nicola.
A couple of days ago I thought that the other parties hadn't done enough to convince me to vote for a change of management. I also don't think that the SNP have said anything throughout this campaign that demands they be voted back in.
Aye, lack lustre sums it all up.

The cult will vote for their constituency MSP, so I would suggest they are left to win the Constituency part of the election, but people should vote for their preferred party in the Regional list as the SNP votes will be reduced proportionately if they win all the FPTP in the region, giving the other parties a better chance to get seats on the Alternative vote on the Regional List.

If you don't fancy any of the constituency candidates you could always spoil the paper and only vote for the party of choice on the list.

[BroxburnHibee]

This might be the high point of the cult of Nicola.
A couple of days ago I thought that the other parties hadn't done enough to convince me to vote for a change of management. I also don't think that the SNP have said anything throughout this campaign that demands they be voted back in.
Aye, lack lustre sums it all up.

Yep this whole campaign hasn't had the energy of the last few years.

Labour are a shambles and the Tories will surely never again be voted in power up here so SNP win without really trying.

That's not to say I don't believe they deserve to stay in power. They've made mistakes of course but generally they've done enough to keep my vote. The lack of an effective opposition has been the real problem so I may use my second vote elsewhere.

[ronaldo7]

This might be the high point of the cult of Nicola.
A couple of days ago I thought that the other parties hadn't done enough to convince me to vote for a change of management. I also don't think that the SNP have said anything throughout this campaign that demands they be voted back in.
Aye, lack lustre sums it all up.

16475

:greengrin

[steakbake]

This might be the high point of the cult of Nicola.
A couple of days ago I thought that the other parties hadn't done enough to convince me to vote for a change of management. I also don't think that the SNP have said anything throughout this campaign that demands they be voted back in.
Aye, lack lustre sums it all up.

All political careers end in failure, the SNP will be no different.

You only need to look at what seems to be happening to Labour. If they come 3rd and the Tories make the most of their official opposition status, they could be in the wilderness for some time to come.

Haven't voted yet, but have finally made up my mind. I think on balance, the SNP deserve another crack at it but I hope they do not get the majority they seem to be expecting. I'd like for them to have to be much braver and having to rely on the Greens for issue-to-issue support. For the Greens, I'd like them to force the renewable energy issue and the ending of council tax.

The problem with covering the middle ground (where elections are won) is that in the end, one part of your broad church of voters' best interests will be compromised.

[Glory Lurker]

And that's it over.

I hate the wait before the first result. :worried:

[hibee62]

You have to admire Tim Wigmore in the New Statesman. For a man who is Oxford educated and is a mega sports writer on that wonderful game cricket, he has managed to produce an article telling us how bad the SNP is doing up here in Scotland. I'm honoured that he has taken time off his cricket world to offer his sound political advice to a country who doesn't give monkey's toss about his beloved game.
The guy's a saint - you gotta love him :greengrin

Unrelated to the thread, but I do feel I have to defend Tim Wigmore. One of the good guys in cricket reporting who is a tireless supporter of the associate cricket cause (including Scotland) and co-authored a book about it. He's very much on Cricket Scotland's side against the corrupt authorities at the ICC. Can't say I've read anything by him on other subjects, although the way you put it I bet I'd agree with him on that too! :wink:

[snooky]

Unrelated to the thread, but I do feel I have to defend Tim Wigmore. One of the good guys in cricket reporting who is a tireless supporter of the associate cricket cause (including Scotland) and co-authored a book about it. He's very much on Cricket Scotland's side against the corrupt authorities at the ICC. Can't say I've read anything by him on other subjects, although the way you put it I bet I'd agree with him on that too! :wink:

All I can say is, I'm stumped! :wink:

[hibee62]

All I can say is, I'm stumped! :wink:

:greengrin

[Ronniekirk]

Already predicting Labour to win no seats in Glasgow and thats from Labour themselves


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cabbageandribs1875]

predictions of a gain for the SNP in Rutherglen, result expected soon


declaration in orkney

Lib dems hold with huge majority, SNP 2nd, con 3rd

[cabbageandribs1875]

Huge gain for Clare Houghey in Rutherglen South Lanarkshire, 9% swing to the SNP from Labour


SNP= 15,222
Lab= 11,479
Con= 3,718

[cabbageandribs1875]

Labour sources predicting an SNP 'Landslide' in Glenrothes


well done the Glenrothians

[lucky]

Edinburgh South and East Lothian look like Labours best hope. Willie Rennie could be the third Lib elected. Tories expecting 2 constituencies. Could get interesting on list later on

[SHODAN]

Somewhere in the corners of a remote parallel universe, there may be a place where Orkney and Shetland do not automatically vote Lib Dem.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehaven

SNP hold 5,437 Maj

South Lanarkshire

SNP

Dundee East

SNP Huge Maj

Dundee West

SNP Huge Maj

Kilmarnock & Irvine valley

SNP Huge Maj

Greenock & Inverclyde

SNP Huge Gain

Stornoway

SNP hold


Eastwood

Con= 12,932
SNP= 11,321
Lab= 11,081

Clydesdale

SNP Huge Hold

[cabbageandribs1875]

constituency seats

SNP= 38
LD= 4
Con= 2
Lab= 1



get that Burgundy suit off Nicola hen

ian gray gains Haddington for labour

SNP win/gain coodenbeath


willie rennie north east fife gains from SNP..

clydebank * milngavie, Labour vote down almost 20% astonishing

[cabbageandribs1875]

Edinburgh North and Leith

Huge SNP gain from Lab...well done my fellow Leithers


Huge percentage of Labour votes going to the Tories, absolutely vomit-inducing...shameful, and they used to call the SNP the tartan tories :faf:


SNP and Tories 'neck and neck' in Dumfrieshire oohhh

[Pete]

Labour losing votes to the tories all over the place. The ****ing tories!! What is happening to this country?

Kezia Dugdale being leader of the Labour party is like Liam Craig being captain. Dependable cart horse but no charisma or leadership qualities.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Lib Dems get Edinburgh west...wtf's going on

Edinburgh East..Hold for SNP nae luck Kezia



glasgow-anniesland..SNP huge majority increased



jackie bird on now, the night just gets better and better :drool:


Murrawell & Wishaw SNP gain from Lab

[High-On-Hibs]

Alex Cole Hamilton takes Edinburgh West? :confused:

After all the crap I've been receiving from him through the door I wasn't expecting that.

It'll be all the snobs around here who were unhappy with the plan to build a nursing home near their precious land. Lowest of the low.

[cabbageandribs1875]

tories take safest labour seat in the country in dumfrieshire..mundells son wins




Edinburgh central- Davidson wins *&£$&*%^$%

[High-On-Hibs]

I'm very much ashamed of my city right now.

[cabbageandribs1875]

glasgow pollok..SNP Huge majority over johann Lamont

[cabbageandribs1875]

I'm very much ashamed of my city right now.


so you should be :agree: :greengrin

tories gain from snp aberdeenshire west

[cabbageandribs1875]

constituency seats

SNP= 57
Con =8
LibDems=7
Labour=4


glasgow maryhill & springburn SNP gain from Lab

[cabbageandribs1875]

well done Angela constance...SNP hold almond valley, looking good hen


glasgow cathcart... SNP

[cabbageandribs1875]

west dunbartonshire...Labour win by 109 votes


Edinburgh Southern... Lab gain from SNP...sickening :)



Glasgow Kelvin... SNP hold, Greens 2nd

Aberdeen central.. SNP hold


Glasgow Southside... Nicola wins :)


clean sweep for the SNP in the last two elections in weegieland...well done the weegies

superb speech from oor nicola :clapper:

[Pete]

Alex Cole Hamilton takes Edinburgh West? :confused:

After all the crap I've been receiving from him through the door I wasn't expecting that.

It'll be all the snobs around here who were unhappy with the plan to build a nursing home near their precious land. Lowest of the low.

Is this the Allan Park development you are talking about?

"Lowest of the low" eh? I bet you know absolutely **** all about the situation.

Signed A. Snob

:giruy2:

[cabbageandribs1875]

Galloway and west dumfries...tory hold



i ******* hate Q.o.s

[cabbageandribs1875]

Linlithgow...well done Fiona hyslop :agree: Huge maj

[SHODAN]

Despite the fact that it looks like another comfortable victory for the SNP, can't help but feel slightly sick at the prospect of a Tory opposition.

[High-On-Hibs]

Is this the Allan Park development you are talking about?

"Lowest of the low" eh? I bet you know absolutely **** all about the situation.

Signed A. Snob

:giruy2:

They didn't want a much needed care home to be built, because the poor dears thought that the building works would be too loud.

But if there's more to it than that, then by all means enlighten me.

[Pete]

They didn't want a much needed care home to be built, because the poor dears thought that the building works would be too loud.

But if there's more to it than that, then by all means enlighten me.

:faf:

Where did you hear the information that led you to form that opinion? It can't have been in the national press as they always gave the key facts regarding the dispute.

I don't have time to give you all the details but googling it would be a start.

"Too loud" :rolleyes:


And for what it's worth, nobody outside Allan Park gives gives a **** about the situation so to blame the election result on the winning candidates support for the residents campaign is nonsense. Mind you, people like to see politicians get on the ground and deal with local issues so who knows. Maybe if the other candidates weren't stuck in their ivory towers....

[SneakersO'Toole]

Alex Cole Hamilton takes Edinburgh West? :confused:

After all the crap I've been receiving from him through the door I wasn't expecting that.

It'll be all the snobs around here who were unhappy with the plan to build a nursing home near their precious land. Lowest of the low.

What a walloper you are.

[SneakersO'Toole]

:faf:

Where did you hear the information that led you to form that opinion? It can't have been in the national press as they always gave the key facts regarding the dispute.

I don't have time to give you all the details but googling it would be a start.

"Too loud" :rolleyes:


And for what it's worth, nobody outside Allan Park gives gives a **** about the situation so to blame the election result on the winning candidates support for the residents campaign is nonsense. Mind you, people like to see politicians get on the ground and deal with local issues so who knows. Maybe if the other candidates weren't stuck in their ivory towers....

Having met Tong Guigliano a number of times, I'm not surprised he hasn't been elected.

[Pete]

They didn't want a much needed care home to be built, because the poor dears thought that the building works would be too loud.

But if there's more to it than that, then by all means enlighten me.

I'm not sure we're talking about the same development to be honest. How many of these developments are there?

Too tired and not concentrating. :yawn:

Two sides to every story no matter the location though.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Region seats so far

CON=9
Lab= 8
Greens= 4


99/129 seats declared

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

jackie bird on now, the night just gets better and better :drool:

Should've went to your kip at that point, lack of sleep clouding your judgement.

[RyeSloan]

Well well this election has turned out to be more interesting than forecast! If the predictions are correct and the SNP fail to get a majority and the Conservatives take a sound second place then Nicola's statement of the election being historic are probably correct but maybe not for the reasons she was thinking.

To me it's pretty clear why the stories have done so well. They are the only party that looks like it has the spine to stand up to the SNP's constant need to bring Independence into everything and all of the other parties desire to tax it's populace more and more.

So basically the SNP have done well considering they have been in power so long, The Tories have done outstanding considering the amount of people who (rather myopically in my view) would never vote for them no matter what and as for Labour, oh dear.

[SHODAN]

SNP/Green coalition most likely, fine with me. Still leaves the threat of independence looming should our Tory friends down south decide to make any more "tough decisions" and maybe our government will shift a little more to the left.

[PiemanP]

A strong Tory opposition is a good thing for the country. Many people (like myself) don't want to be put through the damaging ordeal of another independence referendum and that's shown in the strong Tory vote.

[Benny Brazil]

They didn't want a much needed care home to be built, because the poor dears thought that the building works would be too loud.

But if there's more to it than that, then by all means enlighten me.

I live in the Edin West area - and know nothing about any care home being proposed - certainly not out here in the Ferry - its a big area you know.
I didn't vote for your beloved SNP candidate and am certainly not a snob - but just to clarify are you calling me the lowest of the low??

[Ronniekirk]

Well well this election has turned out to be more interesting than forecast! If the predictions are correct and the SNP fail to get a majority and the Conservatives take a sound second place then Nicola's statement of the election being historic are probably correct but maybe not for the reasons she was thinking.

To me it's pretty clear why the stories have done so well. They are the only party that looks like it has the spine to stand up to the SNP's constant need to bring Independence into everything and all of the other parties desire to tax it's populace more and more.

So basically the SNP have done well considering they have been in power so long, The Tories have done outstanding considering the amount of people who (rather myopically in my view) would never vote for them no matter what and as for Labour, oh dear.

Freudian slip when you call the Tories. Stories
They are making a big play on their opposition to the Named Person Legislation and Nicola Sturgeon starting to indicate this could be watered down or ditched Sp i guess Ruth Davidson s tact about making it clear she would be a credible opposition leader has won over labour voters So Kezia hasn't managed to halt Labours slide
The Greens beat willie rennies Mob into fourth place which doesn't surprise me

[Beefster]

Pretty much as expected. Every party leader will be disappointed, no matter how they spin it, bar Ruth Davidson.

Looks like the country is pretty much split on referendum lines.

[robinp]

I live in the Edin West area - and know nothing about any care home being proposed - certainly not out here in the Ferry - its a big area you know.
I didn't vote for your beloved SNP candidate and am certainly not a snob - but just to clarify are you calling me the lowest of the low??

After a quick google, I presume he's talking about this:
http://www.cramondactiongroup.com/

If I had a lovely home in a quiet village like suburb in Edinburgh, like Cramond, would I hell want this shoehorned into a small open space either. But does that make me a low life? :confused:

After looking at this more, the developer is proposing to knock down a house on the road that leads down to Cramond beach/harbour. The house has huge grounds that look over the river bank, on it they want to built a giant care home which would overlook the old houses there. I'm not surprised the locals are up in arms to be honest.

http://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/idoxpa-web/files/BEEF54EAC592FD226DF7CBB2B62542F0/pdf/15_04016_FUL-02_-_PROPOSED_SITE_PLAN-3178441.pdf

[BroxburnHibee]

SNP/Greens coalition is about right.

Not surprised by these results at all.

Labour in free fall at the moment.

I fully expect to see the independence issue back on the manifesto in 5 years time as Nicola seeks her mandate to try again.

[pacoluna]

A strong Tory opposition is a good thing for the country. Many people (like myself) don't want to be put through the damaging ordeal of another independence referendum and that's shown in the strong Tory vote.

Its hardly a strong opposition! strong tory vote 25 seats? I know they gained significantly but its certainly not strong considering they only have 5 more seats than a depleted labour and 38 behind SNP. It will still be a pro inde majority government with the greens!

[Hibby Bairn]

:faf:

Where did you hear the information that led you to form that opinion? It can't have been in the national press as they always gave the key facts regarding the dispute.

I don't have time to give you all the details but googling it would be a start.

"Too loud" :rolleyes:


And for what it's worth, nobody outside Allan Park gives gives a **** about the situation so to blame the election result on the winning candidates support for the residents campaign is nonsense. Mind you, people like to see politicians get on the ground and deal with local issues so who knows. Maybe if the other candidates weren't stuck in their ivory towers....

Lib Dems very visible and local in Edin West. Have been for years and not just at election time. SNP largely invisible which is surprising given they won the UK seat albeit with a discredited candidate since. By the time I went to vote last night I didn't even know the name of the SNP candidate. All the SNP stuff through the door was all about Sturgeon.

Meanwhile Cole-Hamilton was promoted heavily and most people knew he lived in D'Mains.

[SHODAN]

Final results in.

Pro-independence seats: 69
Pro-union seats: 60

[PiemanP]

Its hardly a strong opposition! strong tory vote 25 seats? I know they gained significantly but its certainly not strong considering they only have 5 more seats than a depleted labour and 38 behind SNP. It will still be a pro inde majority government with the greens!

Agree it's not strong in absolute terms, but the positive swing is large in relative terms and it shows a growing number of people that are not happy at the SNP's threats of an indy ref 2.

[RyeSloan]

Its hardly a strong opposition! strong tory vote 25 seats? I know they gained significantly but its certainly not strong considering they only have 5 more seats than a depleted labour and 38 behind SNP. It will still be a pro inde majority government with the greens!

I don't think the SNP will officially have a coalition with the Greens and the Greens themselves will need to be careful not just to be seen as the SNP's puppies.

Also the Tories have 31 seats now and are bigger than Labour and the Greens combined so 'strong' might be a bit strong but they have a clear mandate to be the main party of opposition and I'm pretty sure Ruth will be looking to get the boot into Nicola at every opportunity. Quite whether she is up to the job or will make any dents in the SNP armour I'm not sure but heading into the election there was serious concerns about another 5 years of one party having total domination of the parliament and its committees. While being just 2 short of a majority doesn't dispel that fear totally I think it will be interesting to see how it unfolds.

[Moulin Yarns]

I don't think the SNP will officially have a coalition with the Greens and the Greens themselves will need to be careful not just to be seen as the SNP's puppies.

Also the Tories have 31 seats now and are bigger than Labour and the Greens combined so 'strong' might be a bit strong but they have a clear mandate to be the main party of opposition and I'm pretty sure Ruth will be looking to get the boot into Nicola at every opportunity. Quite whether she is up to the job or will make any dents in the SNP armour I'm not sure but heading into the election there was serious concerns about another 5 years of one party having total domination of the parliament and its committees. While being just 2 short of a majority doesn't dispel that fear totally I think it will be interesting to see how it unfolds.


Very much this. The SNP and Greens are far apart on some important issues. Fracking and tax just to mention 2. SNP minority with support from others on some issues, but certainly not all.

I think we are in for an interesting parliament. More akin to the SNP first term where they have to work with others.

[Moulin Yarns]

Final results in.

Pro-independence seats: 69
Pro-union seats: 60

53% yes :wink:

[pacoluna]

I don't think the SNP will officially have a coalition with the Greens and the Greens themselves will need to be careful not just to be seen as the SNP's puppies.

Also the Tories have 31 seats now and are bigger than Labour and the Greens combined so 'strong' might be a bit strong but they have a clear mandate to be the main party of opposition and I'm pretty sure Ruth will be looking to get the boot into Nicola at every opportunity. Quite whether she is up to the job or will make any dents in the SNP armour I'm not sure but heading into the election there was serious concerns about another 5 years of one party having total domination of the parliament and its committees. While being just 2 short of a majority doesn't dispel that fear totally I think it will be interesting to see how it unfolds.

You forgot to mention the liberal democrats which when added to the labour and green vote provide a majority socialist opposition in government. Tories have gained through the demise of Labour and the voting system.

[pacoluna]

Very much this. The SNP and Greens are far apart on some important issues. Fracking and tax just to mention 2. SNP minority with support from others on some issues, but certainly not all.

I think we are in for an interesting parliament. More akin to the SNP first term where they have to work with others.
If the Greens sway the SNP more to the left on particular matters then even better :greengrin

[RyeSloan]

You forgot to mention the liberal democrats which when added to the labour and green vote provide a majority socialist opposition in government. Tories have gained through the demise of Labour and the voting system.

I didn't forget I was merely making a point that the second party is bigger than the 3rd and 4th combined. I don't know of any rule where the main opposition party has to be bigger than all other non government parties combined!

And I think you are dreaming of you think that Labour, greens and Lib Dems could ever be described as a 'majority socialist opposition'!

Like it or not the Conservatives are the main opposition party in the new parliament and probably have the SNP to thank more than Labour...every action has a reaction and the SNP's constant raising of Indy2 has clearly pushed voters into the arms of the only party in Scotland that has a clear commitment to support the Union, a union that the majority of Scots voted for only 2 years ago. I find it a bit sad that Scotland has been taken down this path where voters are effectively being asked at every election whether they support Indy or not and that seems to be over riding any serious contemplation of the rather more pressing matters at hand, it's not an overly healthy situation in my opinion but hey ho we are where we are n all that.

[McSwanky]

Final results in.

Pro-independence seats: 69
Pro-union seats: 60

Tell me that's a joke. Please tell me that's a joke.

[Moulin Yarns]

I didn't forget I was merely making a point that the second party is bigger than the 3rd and 4th combined. I don't know of any rule where the main opposition party has to be bigger than all other non government parties combined!

And I think you are dreaming of you think that Labour, greens and Lib Dems could ever be described as a 'majority socialist opposition'!

Like it or not the Conservatives are the main opposition party in the new parliament and probably have the SNP to thank more than Labour...every action has a reaction and the SNP's constant raising of Indy2 has clearly pushed voters into the arms of the only party in Scotland that has a clear commitment to support the Union, a union that the majority of Scots voted for only 2 years ago. I find it a bit sad that Scotland has been taken down this path where voters are effectively being asked at every election whether they support Indy or not and that seems to be over riding any serious contemplation of the rather more pressing matters at hand, it's not an overly healthy situation in my opinion but hey ho we are where we are n all that.


:faf:

In any debates I've watched, the SNP have never raised Indyref2, it has either been the other political parties (Tory/LibDem/Lab) or the interviewer that has raised the issue.

#justsaying

[pacoluna]

:faf:

In any debates I've watched, the SNP have never raised Indyref2, it has either been the other political parties (Tory/LibDem/Lab) or the interviewer that has raised the issue.

#justsaying

:agree:

[pacoluna]

Tell me that's a joke. Please tell me that's a joke.

It's pretty much a fact :confused:

[JeMeSouviens]

:faf:

In any debates I've watched, the SNP have never raised Indyref2, it has either been the other political parties (Tory/LibDem/Lab) or the interviewer that has raised the issue.

#justsaying

The entire Tory campaign was built around opposing the SNP and Indyref2. :agree:

Scotland is more Yes/No than ever.

[McSwanky]

It's pretty much a fact :confused:

You think every Green vote was a vote for independence? Even every SNP vote? Behave yourself.

[Moulin Yarns]

You think every Green vote was a vote for independence? Even every SNP vote? Behave yourself.

Similarly, Do you think every Labour vote was a vote for the union? Nah, don't think so.

[JeMeSouviens]

You think every Green vote was a vote for independence? Even every SNP vote? Behave yourself.

No, but it doesn't really matter. The important point is that if the opportunity arises (I don't think it will in this parliament, btw) the Unionists can't block another referendum.

[SHODAN]

You think every Green vote was a vote for independence? Even every SNP vote? Behave yourself.

That isn't what I was saying. What I am saying is that if the SNP wish to hold another referendum (i.e. if that thing we were told definitely wouldn't happen in the union happens next month) then the Greens will vote with them and it will go ahead.

The most important thing for me is that we kept our independence safeguard if leaving the EU (again, defo won't happen if you vote No guyz!!!!!) transpires. I can take or leave independence but if we leave the EU, and Scotland doesn't find a way to stay in via independence, I'm gone.

[RyeSloan]

That isn't what I was saying. What I am saying is that if the SNP wish to hold another referendum (i.e. if that thing we were told definitely wouldn't happen in the union happens next month) then the Greens will vote with them and it will go ahead. The most important thing for me is that we kept out independence safeguard if leaving the EU (again, defo won't happen if you vote No guyz!!!!!) transpires. I can take or leave independence but if we leave the EU, and Scotland doesn't find a way to stay in via independence, I'm gone.

Where ya gonna go? ;-)

There is the small fact that the Scottish Parliament can't call a binding referendum on Indy...

[SHODAN]

Where ya gonna go? ;-)

There is the small fact that the Scottish Parliament can't call a binding referendum on Indy...

Sweden's the plan!

[pacoluna]

You think every Green vote was a vote for independence? Even every SNP vote? Behave yourself.

is this not what the unionists were putting forward, The the only reason SNP has wiped the floor with rest is because they are the only inde party other than the greens ?

[Moulin Yarns]

is this not what the unionists were putting forward, The the only reason SNP has wiped the floor with rest is because they are the only inde party other than the greens ?

SSP?

RISE?

Labour for Independence?

[McSwanky]

Similarly, Do you think every Labour vote was a vote for the union? Nah, don't think so.

Completely agree with you. Because this election, for many on both sides, was not a one issue vote.

[RyeSloan]

:faf: In any debates I've watched, the SNP have never raised Indyref2, it has either been the other political parties (Tory/LibDem/Lab) or the interviewer that has raised the issue. #justsaying

Ahh OK so Indy2 is a construct created by the parties that oppose Independence and nothing what so ever to do with the SNP's manifesto pledge of undertaking new work, starting this summer, to persuade the Scottish people on Independence, got ya!

[RyeSloan]

Sweden's the plan!

Bit cold no? And the price of beer.... ;-)

[pacoluna]

SSP?

RISE?

Labour for Independence?


When since were Labour for Independence a party?

RISE and SSP are not going to win votes from the SNP

either are solidarity.

RISE manifesto was a shambles.

There is no doubt the bulk - 90% or above of SNP voters are pro inde - that's stating the obvious

[pacoluna]

Completely agree with you. Because this election, for many on both sides, was not a one issue vote.

Well its the only reason Tories have gained - only real opposition to Independence.

[Moulin Yarns]

When since were Labour for Independence a party?

RISE and SSP are not going to win votes from the SNP

either are solidarity.

RISE manifesto was a shambles.

There is no doubt the bulk - 90% or above of SNP voters are pro inde - that's stating the obvious

Look back at the different groups that were campaigning in 2014 and you will find it was not all about the parties. There was a group called 'Labour for Independance' During the UK election campaign I spoke to a fair few SNP supporters that were no voters.

[Beefster]

53% yes :wink:

Or <50% vote for pro-independence parties might be another way to spin it!


That isn't what I was saying. What I am saying is that if the SNP wish to hold another referendum (i.e. if that thing we were told definitely wouldn't happen in the union happens next month) then the Greens will vote with them and it will go ahead.

The most important thing for me is that we kept our independence safeguard if leaving the EU (again, defo won't happen if you vote No guyz!!!!!) transpires. I can take or leave independence but if we leave the EU, and Scotland doesn't find a way to stay in via independence, I'm gone.

There won't be another referendum until there is clear evidence that a large majority would vote for it. Given the country is split into two pretty dogmatic camps, it's not likely any time soon (unless we leave the EU).

I'm with you on the EU though. I'll change my stance on independence if the UK votes to leave the EU.

[marinello59]

Well its the only reason Tories have gained - only real opposition to Independence.

I don't think that's entirely true. It's a large part of it but Ruth Davidson is a personable leader. Some of her policies will have gone down well with a lot of the Scottish electorate, it's a total myth that your average Scots voter is vastly different from voters across the rest of the UK. Their revival may well continue to grow momentum. Myself and others may still find them totally toxic due to the Thatcher years but for younger voters that Tory Goverment will seem like ancient history.

[pacoluna]

The fact we SNP voters are slightly disappointed at narrowly falling short of a majority tells you everything you need to know giving the fact we use the additional member system of voting which makes it extremely difficult to gain a majority!

[pacoluna]

I don't think that's entirely true. It's a large part of it but Ruth Davidson is a personable leader. Some of her policies will have gone down well with a lot of the Scottish electorate, it's a total myth that your average Scots voter is vastly different from voters across the rest of the UK. Their revival may well continue to grow momentum. Myself and others may still find them totally toxic due to the Thatcher years but for younger voters that Tory Goverment will seem like ancient history.
I am pretty confident younger voters like myself will not go near the tories, especially students. The only thing that will gain momentum is the want of another referendum as the polls suggested younger voters compared to over 60's overwhelmingly voted yes.

[BroxburnHibee]

I don't think that's entirely true. It's a large part of it but Ruth Davidson is a personable leader. Some of her policies will have gone down well with a lot of the Scottish electorate, it's a total myth that your average Scots voter is vastly different from voters across the rest of the UK. Their revival may well continue to grow momentum. Myself and others may still find them totally toxic due to the Thatcher years but for younger voters that Tory Goverment will seem like ancient history.

Yep nearly 3 decades since Thatcher left power it's hardly a surprise their vote is slowly recovering.

I blame us old yins for not teaching our children properly :greengrin

[McSwanky]

There is no doubt the bulk - 90% or above of SNP voters are pro inde - that's stating the obvious


Well its the only reason Tories have gained - only real opposition to Independence.


I am pretty confident younger voters like myself will not go near the tories, especially students. The only thing that will gain momentum is the want of another referendum as the polls suggested younger voters compared to over 60's overwhelmingly voted yes.

I don't think you're giving the electorate a lot of credit here, I'd like to think most of the people who bothered to vote this time around were thinking about a good few more issues than Independence.

To use myself as an example, I voted Yes in 2014, but I didn't vote for a pro-Independence party this time around. For a number of reasons. I was also out with two people last night, one of which voted No in 2014, and his two votes were SNP and Green yesterday. Still think your points stand?

[marinello59]

Yep nearly 3 decades since Thatcher left power it's hardly a surprise their vote is slowly recovering.

I blame us old yins for not teaching our children properly :greengrin

I did my best. It's only recently that wee M59 realised that the official name for the Tories wasn't Conservative *******s.

[pacoluna]

I don't think you're giving the electorate a lot of credit here, I'd like to think most of the people who bothered to vote this time around were thinking about a good few more issues than Independence.

To use myself as an example, I voted Yes in 2014, but I didn't vote for a pro-Independence party this time around. For a number of reasons. I was also out with two people last night, one of which voted No in 2014, and his two votes were SNP and Green yesterday. Still think your points stand?

I did say the bulk of people who voted SNP, there are going to be exceptions. I would still like the SNP to drift more to the left. Why anyone in Scotland would vote tories completely baffles me, then again central Edinburgh is very banking/business class - money talks

[Moulin Yarns]

The fact we SNP voters are slightly disappointing at narrowly falling short of a majority tells you everything you need to know giving the fact we use the additional member system of voting which makes it extremely difficult to gain a majority!

It shows that the AMS worked as it was meant to. Keep the SNP in line, and possibly push them further on certain issues. Bring it on I say.



I have to agree with you though, SNP voters are slightly disappointing, some might say very disappointing. :greengrin

[steakbake]

Really, really pleased with the outcome. The SNP stopped short of a majority, a bit more accountability is no bad thing, especially with the Greens in poll position to push the Government beyond their comfort zone. Also, for me, the reshaping of future elections to come into independence v unionism contests, as No voters desert Labour in droves to the Tories. The Yes side needs to work to grow the 30% or so Labour voters who would be Yes.

If Labour reacts the wrong way and breaks to a more Blairite agenda, then they'll just become Conservative-lites. If they try to maintain a left, then they'll just become SNP and Green impersonators. They will undoubtedly be squeezed much further.

I feel that independence was too important an issue to place in the hands of the SNP, very pleased to see that the Tories will now have to handle their referendum burden, too, as the major unionist party.

If there's SNP supporters feeling disappointed, then it is entirely self-inflicted. After 9 years, they've actually increased their share of the vote, albeit only a percent or so but that is an achievement and augurs well for independence to remain a key issue.

Interesting times ahead and I hope Patrick Harvie drives a very hard bargain.

[McSwanky]

I did say the bulk of people who voted SNP, there are going to be exceptions.

This is where it becomes mere conjecture! I think I'll leave it there.

[Moulin Yarns]

The fact we SNP voters are slightly disappointed at narrowly falling short of a majority tells you everything you need to know giving the fact we use the additional member system of voting which makes it extremely difficult to gain a majority!

Just because you edited doesn't make any less true :greengrin

[pacoluna]

Just because you edited doesn't make any less true :greengrin

:na na: :saltireflag

[JeMeSouviens]

Really, really pleased with the outcome. The SNP stopped short of a majority, a bit more accountability is no bad thing, especially with the Greens in poll position to push the Government beyond their comfort zone. Also, for me, the reshaping of future elections to come into independence v unionism contests, as No voters desert Labour in droves to the Tories. The Yes side needs to work to grow the 30% or so Labour voters who would be Yes.

If Labour reacts the wrong way and breaks to a more Blairite agenda, then they'll just become Conservative-lites. If they try to maintain a left, then they'll just become SNP and Green impersonators. They will undoubtedly be squeezed much further.

I feel that independence was too important an issue to place in the hands of the SNP, very pleased to see that the Tories will now have to handle their referendum burden, too, as the major unionist party.

If there's SNP supporters feeling disappointed, then it is entirely self-inflicted. After 9 years, they've actually increased their share of the vote, albeit only a percent or so but that is an achievement and augurs well for independence to remain a key issue.

Interesting times ahead and I hope Patrick Harvie drives a very hard bargain.

I think I more or less agree with all of that. I'd add I'm delighted to see Andy Wightman elected and hope the Greens can keep land reform up the agenda. Also delighted that UKIP totally bombed, 2% list vote and nae seats. :na na:

[allmodcons]

Really, really pleased with the outcome. The SNP stopped short of a majority, a bit more accountability is no bad thing, especially with the Greens in poll position to push the Government beyond their comfort zone. Also, for me, the reshaping of future elections to come into independence v unionism contests, as No voters desert Labour in droves to the Tories. The Yes side needs to work to grow the 30% or so Labour voters who would be Yes.

If Labour reacts the wrong way and breaks to a more Blairite agenda, then they'll just become Conservative-lites. If they try to maintain a left, then they'll just become SNP and Green impersonators. They will undoubtedly be squeezed much further.

I feel that independence was too important an issue to place in the hands of the SNP, very pleased to see that the Tories will now have to handle their referendum burden, too, as the major unionist party.

If there's SNP supporters feeling disappointed, then it is entirely self-inflicted. After 9 years, they've actually increased their share of the vote, albeit only a percent or so but that is an achievement and augurs well for independence to remain a key issue.

Interesting times ahead and I hope Patrick Harvie drives a very hard bargain.

Agree 100%.

FWIW, as an SNP supporter, I am delighted with outcome.

Have never been a huge fan of majority government and, like you, hope the Greens get the SNP thinking a little more radical.

Some major policy differences for SNP and Greens to ponder but, in general terms, I like the make up of the Parliament.

[Moulin Yarns]

I think I more or less agree with all of that. I'd add I'm delighted to see Andy Wightman elected and hope the Greens can keep land reform up the agenda. Also delighted that UKIP totally bombed, 2% list vote and nae seats. :na na:

Have you seen the resuts for the Welsh Assembly?


Labour 29
Plaid Cymru 12
Conservative 11
UKIP 7
Lib Dem 1

Terribly disappointing that UKIP got 7 seats.

[JeMeSouviens]

Have you seen the resuts for the Welsh Assembly?


Labour 29
Plaid Cymru 12
Conservative 11
UKIP 7
Lib Dem 1

Terribly disappointing that UKIP got 7 seats.

No, I hadn't. That's a bit of a shocker right enough :confused:

Mind you, I suppose if Westminster had PR they'd have won dozens last year.

[steakbake]

Looking at the results, I think the both votes strategy backfired on the SNP. Many, many wasted votes. Something like 110,000 in Glasgow alone.

Other than that, good to see the 'one party state' stuff fully rammed as the nonsense it always was.

[snooky]

I don't think that's entirely true. It's a large part of it but Ruth Davidson is a personable leader. Some of her policies will have gone down well with a lot of the Scottish electorate, it's a total myth that your average Scots voter is vastly different from voters across the rest of the UK. Their revival may well continue to grow momentum. Myself and others may still find them totally toxic due to the Thatcher years but for younger voters that Tory Goverment will seem like ancient history.

Agree with your analysis above, marinello. However, what the Cameron/Osborne years?
Surely the younger ones are finding them just as toxic, are they not?

[pacoluna]

Agree with your analysis above, marinello. However, what the Cameron/Osborne years?
Surely the younger ones are finding them just as toxic, are they not?

Why would younger generation, partly students vote for torie (who want to scrap free tuition) younger voters are more inclined to vote for socialism until they have found their feet financially. As mentioned before 18-23 overwhelmingly voted yes in ref.

[JeMeSouviens]

Agree with your analysis above, marinello. However, what the Cameron/Osborne years?
Surely the younger ones are finding them just as toxic, are they not?

To be fair, they only got 22% of the vote last night. In 1987, when Thatcher was actually in the midst of wrecking the country, they got 24.

The Tories have picked up a wee bit but that and their good result is more down to Labour's complete collapse than anything else.

[pacoluna]

SNP still got more seats than Labour, Tory and liberal democrats put together. Tory/unionist media putting positive twist on what still can only be regarded as a failure.

[The Harp Awakes]

Final results in.

Pro-independence seats: 69
Pro-union seats: 60

So basically not much change in the pro indy/pro union split at Holyrood then. Good for those that want independence at some point in the future.

In terms of the overall result, what's happened is that the right/pro-union element of the Labour electorate has got into bed with the tories, meaning that they will sacrafice their social morals to save the Union. A Union which is destined to give us right wing Tory Westminster Governments, perhaps with a UKIP influence, for decades to come. Wow, just wow, although we shouldn't be surprised given they shared the same platform as the tories in Better Together.

[Tommy75]

Why would younger generation, partly students vote for torie (who want to scrap free tuition) younger voters are more inclined to vote for socialism until they have found their feet financially. As mentioned before 18-23 overwhelmingly voted yes in ref.

I don't know where you got your information from (any chance of a source?) but research has suggested that 18-23 year olds did not "overwhelmingly" vote yes in the Scottish independence referendum (see the independence study carried out by the University of Edinburgh).

[pacoluna]

I don't know where you got your information from (any chance of a source?) but research has suggested that 18-23 year olds did not "overwhelmingly" vote yes in the Scottish independence referendum (see the independence study carried out by the University of Edinburgh).
Should have said 16-23*

A combination of over 65's and scottish residents born in other parts of the uk won the no vote.

[Tommy75]

Should have said 16-23*

Sorry but your information is still incorrect.

[JeMeSouviens]

I don't know where you got your information from (any chance of a source?) but research has suggested that 18-23 year olds did not "overwhelmingly" vote yes in the Scottish independence referendum (see the independence study carried out by the University of Edinburgh).

http://www.scottishreferendumstudy.com/files/2015/03/Scottish-Referendum-Study-27-March-2015.pdf

Slide 7:

16-19: 62.5%Y
20-24: 51.4%Y

Combined and assuming their numbers are roughly equal: 57%

Not overwhelming but certainly disproportionate.

[Moulin Yarns]

Sorry but your information is still incorrect.


71% 16-17 year olds voted Yes

48% 18-24 year olds voted Yes

59% 25-34 Year olds voted Yes

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Scotland-Post-Referendum-poll-Full-tables-140919.pdf

[pacoluna]

71% 16-17 year olds voted Yes

48% 18-24 year olds voted Yes

59% 25-34 Year olds voted Yes

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Scotland-Post-Referendum-poll-Full-tables-140919.pdf

We are 2 years on now (stating the obvious I know) but to think that a good chunk of these voters mentioned above would vote the tories to the point they would become the opposition party is extremely unlikely giving the vast majority of them votes yes.

In my opinion also this years 16/17 year old voters would be more like to vote Yes, don't want to sound morbid but as generational shift takes place the more realistic a yes vote will become.

[ronaldo7]

Well that's it for another 5 years. A remarkable 3rd term for the SNP. Absolutely delighted with the make up of our side of the Parliament, but not so sure I'm liking the real Tories in opposition.

It looks like the people have seen through the Labour party, and the Corbyn bounce just never materialised. Oh well.:greengrin

Nice to see the Greens get their rewards for their hard work. Look forward to seeing how they work alongside the government on Land reform,(step forward Andy Wightman), Tax, and local government reforms.

A wee pull to the Left for the Snp will be good for most of us:greengrin

[JeMeSouviens]

71% 16-17 year olds voted Yes

48% 18-24 year olds voted Yes

59% 25-34 Year olds voted Yes

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Scotland-Post-Referendum-poll-Full-tables-140919.pdf

Caution - subsample sizes for the age groups in that poll are extremely small. The SRS ones are much larger.

[RyeSloan]

To be fair, they only got 22% of the vote last night. In 1987, when Thatcher was actually in the midst of wrecking the country, they got 24. The Tories have picked up a wee bit but that and their good result is more down to Labour's complete collapse than anything else.

I'm not so sure. The biggest gains from Labour were for the SNP who took 11 constituency seats from them.

I reckon the Tories did well not because of Labours collapse but down to the fact the SNP / Indy has polarised the electorate. It's clearly working for the SNP but the side effect has been a benefit to the Tories who have a clear message on the constitution and on tax n spend so are the only party that have clear blue water between them and the SNP. They ran a smart campaign that worked well for them.

That said Labour were/are woeful. No clear direction on the constitutional question and campaigned on tax rises for a huge chunk of the workforce. Doesn't take a genius to see that was never going to work! Bleating on and on about an abstract £3bn worth of cuts just passes the electorate by and as Labour seem unclear what they stand for that someone else doesn't already represent I'm not surprised that they got roundly walloped all over by all parties.

[JeMeSouviens]

I'm not so sure. The biggest gains from Labour were for the SNP who took 11 constituency seats from them.

I reckon the Tories did well not because of Labours collapse but down to the fact the SNP / Indy has polarised the electorate. It's clearly working for the SNP but the side effect has been a benefit to the Tories who have a clear message on the constitution and on tax n spend so are the only party that have clear blue water between them and the SNP. They ran a smart campaign that worked well for them.

That said Labour were/are woeful. No clear direction on the constitutional question and campaigned on tax rises for a huge chunk of the workforce. Doesn't take a genius to see that was never going to work! Bleating on and on about an abstract £3bn worth of cuts just passes the electorate by and as Labour seem unclear what they stand for that someone else doesn't already represent I'm not surprised that they got roundly walloped all over by all parties.

The SNP got roughly the same proportion of the vote as last time so where they won constituencies from collapsing Labour, they tended to lose list seats, many of which went to the Tories who were taking them at the expense of collapsing Labour.

I agree with your 2nd point, but I think the fact that people see Labour collapsing is a big part of that, Labour voting strong-Nos see the Tories as a better bet to defend the union.

And unsurprisingly I also agree with your 3rd.

[hibsbollah]

The Labour slide in Scotland continues, which pre-dates the arrival of Corbyn and shows the referendum legacy continues.

By contrast, UK Labour has strengthened his position down south by any objective analysis. The future relationship between Corbyn and Dugdale within the context of the constitutional question will be very interesting.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/05/jeremy-corbyn-has-defied-odds-and-embarrassed-his-critics

[AndyM_1875]

Why would younger generation, partly students vote for torie (who want to scrap free tuition) younger voters are more inclined to vote for socialism until they have found their feet financially. As mentioned before 18-23 overwhelmingly voted yes in ref.

Vote for socialism? There was only one major party running a remotely socialist agenda and they got battered and are now in 3rd place. The SNP are a formidable political operation, but democratic socialists they are not. The 16-23 year olds appeared to be more interested in Nicola's presidential style campaign as did many others.
The Labour party is in a desperate place and any previously held thoughts that Scotland is some centre left utopia is deader than Aberdeen's title challenge. The sooner Labour dumps the dinosaurs from its party the better for it's hopes of some for of recovery.
Going in with a program of tax rises was doomed to failure, it's never worked in the past.
As an old fart I remember Salmond's Penny for Scotland, result was a disaster.

Scotland has not moved one bit from the split lines, holding pattern it found itself in on 19 September 2014.

[stoneyburn hibs]

So apart from Sun reading separatists, a large swathe decided to vote for the Conservatives ?

[Moulin Yarns]

Vote for socialism? There was only one major party running a remotely socialist agenda and they got battered and are now in 3rd place. The SNP are a formidable political operation, but democratic socialists they are not. The 16-23 year olds appeared to be more interested in Nicola's presidential style campaign as did many others.
The Labour party is in a desperate place and any previously held thoughts that Scotland is some centre left utopia is deader than Aberdeen's title challenge. The sooner Labour dumps the dinosaurs from its party the better for it's hopes of some for of recovery.
Going in with a program of tax rises was doomed to failure, it's never worked in the past.
As an old fart I remember Salmond's Penny for Scotland, result was a disaster.

Scotland has not moved one bit from the split lines, holding pattern it found itself in on 19 September 2014.

Define major party. LibDem or Green? Both advocates of tax changes. Both held or increased their number of seats. One definitely more socialist than either the SNP or Labour.

[RyeSloan]

The SNP got roughly the same proportion of the vote as last time so where they won constituencies from collapsing Labour, they tended to lose list seats, many of which went to the Tories who were taking them at the expense of collapsing Labour. I agree with your 2nd point, but I think the fact that people see Labour collapsing is a big part of that, Labour voting strong-Nos see the Tories as a better bet to defend the union. And unsurprisingly I also agree with your 3rd.

Ha 2 out 3 ain't bad ;-)

[pacoluna]

http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/7-ways-the-scottish-election-result-is-good-for-the-independence-movement/

[snooky]

Vote for socialism? There was only one major party running a remotely socialist agenda and they got battered and are now in 3rd place. The SNP are a formidable political operation, but democratic socialists they are not. The 16-23 year olds appeared to be more interested in Nicola's presidential style campaign as did many others.
The Labour party is in a desperate place and any previously held thoughts that Scotland is some centre left utopia is deader than Aberdeen's title challenge. The sooner Labour dumps the dinosaurs from its party the better for it's hopes of some for of recovery.
Going in with a program of tax rises was doomed to failure, it's never worked in the past.
As an old fart I remember Salmond's Penny for Scotland, result was a disaster.

Scotland has not moved one bit from the split lines, holding pattern it found itself in on 19 September 2014.

:agree: We are a divided nation and until we have a populus voting 75/25% for or against independence there can be no meaningful progress. Personally, I can't see that ratio being achieved within the next 10 years. A lot of bickering and squabbling in store until 25% of Scots 'see the light' whether it be the union or indy one.
We have to be one nation before we consider taking on Westminster for the better of Scotland and all who live here.
Best analogy I can come up with is, it's like getting the OF to amalgamate as Glasgow United. The odds must be about the same. (5000/1? A shot like that would never come up. :rolleyes: :wink:)

[Hibernia&Alba]

Green for me. :aok:

Democratic socialism still has a voice.

[Hibernia&Alba]

So apart from Sun reading separatists, a large swathe decided to vote for the Conservatives ?

Such is Labour's demise, and they've lost so many voters to the SNP, there would have to come a point when the Tories would seriously challenge for second.

[ronaldo7]

Vote for socialism? There was only one major party running a remotely socialist agenda and they got battered and are now in 3rd place. The SNP are a formidable political operation, but democratic socialists they are not. The 16-23 year olds appeared to be more interested in Nicola's presidential style campaign as did many others.
The Labour party is in a desperate place and any previously held thoughts that Scotland is some centre left utopia is deader than Aberdeen's title challenge. The sooner Labour dumps the dinosaurs from its party the better for it's hopes of some for of recovery.
Going in with a program of tax rises was doomed to failure, it's never worked in the past.
As an old fart I remember Salmond's Penny for Scotland, result was a disaster.

Scotland has not moved one bit from the split lines, holding pattern it found itself in on 19 September 2014.

Socialist Labour, yer havin a laugh. It must have been as remote as Timbukto

This socialism lark must have changed over time. Taxing the lowest paid to pay for Tory cuts...Very socialist.

I agree with your point on getting rid of the dinosaurs, so why the hell did they bring back Champagne socialist Anas Sarwar? He was booted out by the people last year, but Labour thought it bright enough to return him to the list, last night.

Daddy must have donated some more cash for the party eh.:rolleyes:

[AndyM_1875]

:agree: We are a divided nation and until we have a populus voting 75/25% for or against independence there can be no meaningful progress. Personally, I can't see that ratio being achieved within the next 10 years. A lot of bickering and squabbling in store until 25% of Scots 'see the light' whether it be the union or indy one.
We have to be one nation before we consider taking on Westminster for the better of Scotland and all who live here.
Best analogy I can come up with is, it's like getting the OF to amalgamate as Glasgow United. The odds must be about the same. (5000/1? A shot like that would never come up. :rolleyes: :wink:)

If we are still here in 10 years still bickering & bitching about the constitution & the powers then as a nation we seriously need to look at ourselves.

[AndyM_1875]

Socialist Labour, yer havin a laugh. It must have been as remote as Timbukto

This socialism lark must have changed over time. Taxing the lowest paid to pay for Tory cuts...Very socialist.

I agree with your point on getting rid of the dinosaurs, so why the hell did they bring back Champagne socialist Anas Sarwar? He was booted out by the people last year, but Labour thought it bright enough to return him to the list, last night.

Daddy must have donated some more cash for the party eh.:rolleyes:

Good to see you're approaching this with your usual sense of perspective.. :greengrin

Did you actually read the manifesto? It was well to the left of anything being offered up by the SNP. Tax rises, 50% top rate tax! protecting education budgets, defending local services are all pretty socialist aspirations.

Re the dinosaurs - they need to be dumped. Labour have some bright young community focused members under the age of 35. Next time they need their chance.
As for Anas Sarwar, I've no idea, Wouldn't call him a dinosaur as he's not really old enough and I've never met him or paid him much attention. Perhaps he should be judged on his contributions at Holyrood in the next parliament?

[ronaldo7]

Good to see you're approaching this with your usual sense of perspective.. :greengrin

Did you actually read the manifesto? It was well to the left of anything being offered up by the SNP. Tax rises, 50% top rate tax! protecting education budgets, defending local services are all pretty socialist aspirations.

Re the dinosaurs - they need to be dumped. Labour have some bright young community focused members under the age of 35. Next time they need their chance.
As for Anas Sarwar, I've no idea, Wouldn't call him a dinosaur as he's not really old enough and I've never met him or paid him much attention. Perhaps he should be judged on his contributions at Holyrood in the next parliament?

Sarwar is a careerist, looking to get his ermine robes, all for the £££££ that Daddy will donate to the Party. Champagne Socialist are returning to the Labour fold.

The Tories have played Labour like a fiddle since the Referendum, and they've not got a clue how to get out of the hole they're in.

I heard Simon Pia on the radio today giving it large about how Labour need to be autonomous...I thought Kez said they already were:confused:

The people have spoken, and I think "everyone" needs to get behind the First Minister, and stop all the bickering.:greengrin

[marinello59]

The people have spoken, and I think "everyone" needs to get behind the First Minister, and stop all the bickering.:greengrin

That's one serious crush you have. :greengrin

[stoneyburn hibs]

Such is Labour's demise, and they've lost so many voters to the SNP, there would have to come a point when the Tories would seriously challenge for second.

Yep I get all that regarding Labour, but to even consider voting Tory. I'm sure I'll be shot down, but I think that this vote wasn't just about the Yes and No. This vote had a touch of class, the geography of the votes backs it up, even more than usual.

[bawheid]

Yep I get all that regarding Labour, but to even consider voting Tory. I'm sure I'll be shot down, but I think that this vote wasn't just about the Yes and No. This vote had a touch of class, the geography of the votes backs it up, even more than usual.

If Scotland is to be independent then 'class' can't come into it. The worst thing the yes movement could do is make this a class war or a battle of left versus right.

[steakbake]

If Scotland is to be independent then 'class' can't come into it. The worst thing the yes movement could do is make this a class war or a battle of left versus right.

Totally agree. The challenge will be to pull over the soft No vote, possibly even some Tories and not just to focus on the core. It has to appeal to people that were there for the convincing but just didn't see it in 2014.

All hands to the economy, building the economic case. Providing confidence that the blanks that will always exist, can be credibly filled in.

The other bit is about events: a lot happens in a week, so many things happen in years.

With the Tories now in opposition, it's 5 years to challenge them at Westminster as much as they must challenge the SNP. Turn the heat up... the Tories overall, will soon have a long list of problems. A leadership challenge, EU faultline exposed, the election expenses scandal...

It's not going to happen overnight but there are some amazing opportunities to be in the right circumstances.

[GlesgaeHibby]

Sarwar is a careerist, looking to get his ermine robes, all for the £££££ that Daddy will donate to the Party. Champagne Socialist are returning to the Labour fold.

The Tories have played Labour like a fiddle since the Referendum, and they've not got a clue how to get out of the hole they're in.

I heard Simon Pia on the radio today giving it large about how Labour need to be autonomous...I thought Kez said they already were:confused:

The people have spoken, and I think "everyone" needs to get behind the First Minister, and stop all the bickering.:greengrin

Aye, but the problem wasn't the Labour manifesto. It was that the people just aren't getting the message yet...the penny will drop. (According to Sarwar!).

[hibsbollah]

A reminder that the Tories won just 21% or if you prefer, 1 in 9 of Scotlands registered voters. It's not some sort of overnight cashmere revolution.

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/05/bbc-spread-hatred/

[Hibby Bairn]

Labour are largely irrelevant now in Scotland. SNP have filled into their space with Tories picking up many one Union Labour voters left.

Can't see any prospect of recovery for them in Scotland which will in turn mean the UK will be Tory or Coalition governed for next 10 years at least.

[--------]

I'm not so sure. The biggest gains from Labour were for the SNP who took 11 constituency seats from them.

I reckon the Tories did well not because of Labours collapse but down to the fact the SNP / Indy has polarised the electorate. It's clearly working for the SNP but the side effect has been a benefit to the Tories who have a clear message on the constitution and on tax n spend so are the only party that have clear blue water between them and the SNP. They ran a smart campaign that worked well for them.

That said Labour were/are woeful. No clear direction on the constitutional question and campaigned on tax rises for a huge chunk of the workforce. Doesn't take a genius to see that was never going to work! Bleating on and on about an abstract £3bn worth of cuts just passes the electorate by and as Labour seem unclear what they stand for that someone else doesn't already represent I'm not surprised that they got roundly walloped all over by all parties.

Seems a reasonable analysis to me. It astonishes me how Scottish Labour has been so marginalised in the central belt. I moved to North Lanarkshire 13 years ago. Then, Labour was still a force to be reckoned with; the SNP was on the outside, trying to get in. Now it's the SNP holding all the cards, and Labour squeaking futilely from the sidelines.

But look at the "leadership" over the life of Holyrood over the past 19 years -

Donald Dewar - people had actually heard of him as a national politician.
Henry McLeish - played for East Fife, resigned among allegations of corruption and vicious party infighting.
Jack McConnell - the probable instigator and winner of the above party infighting. The Father of the Edinburgh Trams. The inventor of the Man-Skirt.
Wendy Alexander - Oh dear! Like a train crash - you wanted to look away, but you just couldn't stop watching the countdown to disaster.
Ian Gray - Foot In Mouth Man.
Johann Lamont - WHO?
Sarwar - acting leader until someone permanent was elected. Punted afterwards but now he's back - sort of. Millionaire Socialist, Aye, right.
Jim Murphy - proof that in politics nature WILL tolerate a vacuum, at least for a while.
Iain Gray - acting leader - it says it all that KD seemed a good idea after HIM.
Kezia Dugdale - Like a train crash ....

The point being that the first three were at least considerable politicians in their own right.

Wee Wendy always suffered from being known as the sister of one of Tony Bliar's minor go-fers, but she was way ahead of anything that's come after. But there was a queue of people behind her, wanting her job, itching to be the one to stab her in the back.

Gray - one of that queue. His performances against Salmond at First Min's questions? Like a train crash ....


And the rest? :rolleyes:


Just a thought in light of this admittedly flippant and almost certainly inaccurate summary of the Scottish Labour leadership down the 19 years of Holyrood's existence (that's an awfy lot of leaders in 19 years, mind) - Princess Nico-Leia should be aware that a LOT of people are asking themselves what sort of idiot allows the SCOTTISH SUN to publish a full-page photo of her and her #1 and #2 (sort out who's the Number Two for yourselves) in the same week as the verdict is announced in the Hillsborough inquest? Maybe she was stuck in a time-warp somewhere?

[Glory Lurker]

Meanwhile, in the sports pages of the Scottish editions of the Daily Mail and Express - Spurs win EPL with emphatic gap behind devestated Foxes.