PDA

View Full Version : The Dutch Fitness Coach



My_Wife_Camille
19-03-2016, 12:04 PM
For those not familiar with him, at the start of the season he said the following:

"The Hibernian coach Alan Stubbs is a typical example of an uneducated coach overtraining & injuring his players"

At the time, the vast majority on here, including me, we're happy to ignore him in favour of backing Stubbs however as the season has progressed and the injuries have piled up, I can't help but think he may have had a point after all.

We've had more than our fair share of players with medium to to long term injuries since Stubbs came in, including the likes of Forster, Malonga, Fyvie, McGeouch, Charmichael, Handling, Keatings, Farid, Hanlon, Gray, Anier, Feruz, Boyle, Robertson, Watson.

I'm sure there will be some on here who can explain each injury individually and tell us how it's just bad luck but to have had around 15 players suffering so many quite serious injuries in such a short space of time is quite concerning.

Did the guy have a point? Or is it all just bad luck?

s.a.m
19-03-2016, 12:19 PM
I don't know anything about the merits of his argument, but is that injury list any different to what we normally have at this stage? It would be interesting to know how other clubs compare, over time.

mghibs
19-03-2016, 12:19 PM
I think to a certain extent footballers are a bit pampered and not fit enough. Whilst this might not be the case with us, I don't think it was any coincidence that when continental klopp went to Liverpool there was a rather large training injury list. For example Carmichael coming from queen of the south could be in part to da difference in training levels and intensity.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ozyhibby
19-03-2016, 12:21 PM
Not sure but I will say that Sevco have been incredibly fortunate this season with injuries and Warburton has mentioned following the Dutch guys methods.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

FromTheCapital
19-03-2016, 12:25 PM
Nothing he can do about some of them. Fyvie, for example was on the end of a really poor challenge by a Morton player. However, I do feel players like McGeouch are rushed back into the team. I think we're a different animal when he plays but we need him for the run in and maybe a lay-off would do the trick.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

nellio
19-03-2016, 12:30 PM
Are we talking about raymond verheijen here?

Was Speeds assistant for some time with Wales. Genuinely does have knowledge of sports fitness Tec but just can't seem to keep his mouth shut!

Thecat23
19-03-2016, 12:32 PM
Nothing he can do about some of them. Fyvie, for example was on the end of a really poor challenge by a Morton player. However, I do feel players like McGeouch are rushed back into the team. I think we're a different animal when he plays but we need him for the run in and maybe a lay-off would do the trick.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree, I've no idea why Dylan has been put back in so soon after having the injury he has. He's either telling Stubbs he's fine when he's not or Stubbs is chancing it and hoping for the best.

For me I'd have put him in for the op on his groin now and have him fully fit for next season.

Ozyhibby
19-03-2016, 12:32 PM
Nothing he can do about some of them. Fyvie, for example was on the end of a really poor challenge by a Morton player. However, I do feel players like McGeouch are rushed back into the team. I think we're a different animal when he plays but we need him for the run in and maybe a lay-off would do the trick.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'd be happy to leave mcgeogh out till the last couple of games of the season so he is fitting fit for the play offs. Very important player for us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

HappyHanlon
19-03-2016, 12:37 PM
Hopefully Dylan's injury is sorted out and pronto. Getting pretty poor that he's in for 2 games, out for 6.

jamieross
19-03-2016, 12:40 PM
This guys seems to run his mouth about everyone. Last week he was saying that Gareth Bale was ruining his career by staying at Real Madrid.

Whilst some of the guys points are valid, why has no top team offered him a coaching role since he left his Wales job 3 years ago?

Ozyhibby
19-03-2016, 12:45 PM
This guys seems to run his mouth about everyone. Last week he was saying that Gareth Bale was ruining his career by staying at Real Madrid.

Whilst some of the guys points are valid, why has no top team offered him a coaching role since he left his Wales job 3 years ago?

He runs a coach education business so maybe he is not looking?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My_Wife_Camille
19-03-2016, 12:49 PM
I don't know anything about the merits of his argument, but is that injury list any different to what we normally have at this stage? It would be interesting to know how other clubs compare, over time.
The main point is that that list isn't just an injury list, it's a list of all medium to long term injuries (from around 1 month and upwards). Players do pick up injuries now and again and kiss the odd game here and there but I haven't included them as its normal. What isn't normal is having such a large number of players missing so many games at one time from these injuries.

hibee92
19-03-2016, 12:53 PM
One of the highest rated fitness coaches on the planet but a mouthpiece and an arsepiece.

Jones28
19-03-2016, 01:00 PM
One of the highest rated fitness coaches on the planet but a mouthpiece and an arsepiece.

But he would seem to have a point

Mcpakeisgod
19-03-2016, 01:22 PM
If people want to find reasons they will find them.

Greenblood70
19-03-2016, 01:31 PM
I guess the Dutch bloke would have to have seen our methods over a period of time - im not sure that's the case so it brings into question the validity of his opinion.

Some of those players on that list had niggling injuries when they signed and some have just been very unlucky with bad tackles.

There's so much information widely available on Sports Science these days that I find it hard to believe that our regime would ignore it. Its not like their relics like Butcher/Malpas.

MWHIBBIES
19-03-2016, 01:34 PM
He complained about us doing 3 sessions in the sun but had no idea what those 3 sessions involved, for that reason his claims have very little merit IMO. A lot of the injuries have been as a result of challenges/bad falls/bad luck as well. Forster had a bad fall, Fyvie took a bad challenge, Carmichael needed a major op, Farid kicked the shambles of a park at Alloa etc.

Also, there are plenty of players who have played every game and are not/haven't been injured. McGinn, Stevenson, Cummings, McGregor, Gray, Henderson, Fonts have all played this season basically injury free.

rcarter1
19-03-2016, 02:28 PM
One of the highest rated fitness coaches on the planet but a mouthpiece and an arsepiece.

I like someone willing to express their views. The Dutch have a history of modernising. In Scotland I have always had the impression that any idea attracts more 'it can't work, it wont work' attitude than is healthy. If Stubbs is a guy that doesn't want to listen to others expertise, then more fool him. He will pay the cost in the long run.

VivaPalmeiras
19-03-2016, 02:42 PM
Are we talking about raymond verheijen here?

Was Speeds assistant for some time with Wales. Genuinely does have knowledge of sports fitness Tec but just can't seem to keep his mouth shut!
Flaccid jaw muscles - needs to up his reps whilst increasing the intervals holding the jaw in place

hibee62
19-03-2016, 03:12 PM
Nothing he can do about some of them. Fyvie, for example was on the end of a really poor challenge by a Morton player. However, I do feel players like McGeouch are rushed back into the team. I think we're a different animal when he plays but we need him for the run in and maybe a lay-off would do the trick.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think McGeouch played against Inverness out of necessity. We had to change formation when he went off, although that worked out OK in the end.

Marco G
19-03-2016, 04:19 PM
I like someone willing to express their views. The Dutch have a history of modernising. In Scotland I have always had the impression that any idea attracts more 'it can't work, it wont work' attitude than is healthy. If Stubbs is a guy that doesn't want to listen to others expertise, then more fool him. He will pay the cost in the long run. Who thinks that Stubbs does not listen to others expertise? I get the impression he and his staff are very willing to learn, e.g. the input from Andy Murray and his trainers. As far as I am aware the comments by Verhieijen were made about Hibs early season training and conditioning when they were in Spain. I don't know how the current training regime may have been altered since then. FWIW I don't think we have had many long term injuries that are caused by the training methods but only by bad tackles or physical problems arising from the strains of playing professional football.

GreenArmyyy!
19-03-2016, 04:21 PM
I said at the time of this guys comments that I agreed with him and got absolutely slaughtered on here. We have far, far too many injuries.

rcarter1
19-03-2016, 04:32 PM
Who thinks that Stubbs does not listen to others expertise? I get the impression he and his staff are very willing to learn, e.g. the input from Andy Murray and his trainers. As far as I am aware the comments by Verhieijen were made about Hibs early season training and conditioning when they were in Spain. I don't know how the current training regime may have been altered since then. FWIW I don't think we have had many long term injuries that are caused by the training methods but only by bad tackles or physical problems arising from the strains of playing professional football.

I did say IF Stubbs doesn't listen. Frankly I have no idea what Stubbs listens to or not, as Im not anywhere near the club or training sessions etc. However I am prepared to give some credit to the Dutch chaps opinions. Just because he opens his mouth and voices an opinion, doesn't make him wrong or bad. Id rather hear peoples points of view and have the benefit of their expertise/experience, then everyone to keep shtum. My intention was to defend and encourage free speech, more than criticise Stubbs..

MWHIBBIES
19-03-2016, 05:15 PM
I said at the time of this guys comments that I agreed with him and got absolutely slaughtered on here. We have far, far too many injuries.Of course you got slaughtered, what you are saying is utterly baseless. He had no idea what we were doing in pre season and based his opinion on an evening news article saying that we were doing triple sessions in Spain. That could mean anything.

''We have far, far too many injuries''? Do we? No more than the likes of Bayern, Arsenal or Juventus and I'd wager those clubs have the best fitness coaches money can buy. Injuries happen, some of the ones we have had have involved awful luck, ****ty parks and horrible challenges. Without those we have no more than any other team in the world.

Blurry Face
19-03-2016, 05:28 PM
The injuries should be categorised under contact and non contact.
If a player has a contact injury there isn't a lot that could have been done to prevent it.
Non contact can be forecast and treated before they happen.
I know of one club who had 0% non contact injuries due to the prehab regime over the course of a season.

hstn747
19-03-2016, 08:05 PM
I don't think it is true to say you can't do anything about non-contact injuries. Players can be conditioned to be more robust and better able to recover from contact injuries. Their diet can be improved to help reduce inflammation that may occur.

I'd imagine that out of two players, the one with better flexibility would get injured less due to incidents of contact/avoiding contact.

Alfred ENewman
19-03-2016, 09:59 PM
I went on one of the East Mains visits in November last season and we were told that Hibs would be the fittest team in the league and come the end of the season we would be bombing.
We all know his that turned out.
This season we look so pedestrian it's not true. Morton for example ran us off the park.

HibbiesandtheBaddies
19-03-2016, 10:13 PM
For those not familiar with him, at the start of the season he said the following:

"The Hibernian coach Alan Stubbs is a typical example of an uneducated coach overtraining & injuring his players"

At the time, the vast majority on here, including me, we're happy to ignore him in favour of backing Stubbs however as the season has progressed and the injuries have piled up, I can't help but think he may have had a point after all.

We've had more than our fair share of players with medium to to long term injuries since Stubbs came in, including the likes of Forster, Malonga, Fyvie, McGeouch, Charmichael, Handling, Keatings, Farid, Hanlon, Gray, Anier, Feruz, Boyle, Robertson, Watson.

I'm sure there will be some on here who can explain each injury individually and tell us how it's just bad luck but to have had around 15 players suffering so many quite serious injuries in such a short space of time is quite concerning.

Did the guy have a point? Or is it all just bad luck?



I'd give them all up to have a fit McGeouch.

Tyler Durden
19-03-2016, 10:26 PM
I went on one of the East Mains visits in November last season and we were told that Hibs would be the fittest team in the league and come the end of the season we would be bombing.
We all know his that turned out.
This season we look so pedestrian it's not true. Morton for example ran us off the park.

Well last season we won the final 5 league games scoring a lot of goals then narrowly lost over 2 legs to Rangers that we dominated. So the claims were backed up IMO

This season I have to agree with you, we never run over the top of teams or fly out the traps. Is that more the philosophy than the fitness? I don't know but surely Stubbs has to recognise something needs to change or he'll be out the door