Paris Gunman Arrested

[DaveF]

Seems like Abdeslam has been grabbed.

May his testicles be hit by hammers and his finger nails be pulled out slowly - Accidentally, of course.

[hibsbollah]

Seems like Abdeslam has been grabbed.

May his testicles be hit by hammers and his finger nails be pulled out slowly - Accidentally, of course.

We've done the medieval torture thing at Abu Ghraib already, I don't think it really helped our popularity out east.

I'm glad he's in captivity and will be held to account for what he did.

[DaveF]

We've done the medieval torture thing at Abu Ghraib already, I don't think it really helped our popularity out east.

Yeah, letting him live out his days in a nice cell will boost our popularity no end :greengrin


I'm glad he's in captivity and will be held to account for what he did.

I agree. My OP was (half) in jest.

[hibsbollah]

There was a resume of the November attacks on the radio and I'd forgotten how insane, horrific and surreal it was. 130 innocent people having a night out just gunned down in a western capital.

[Colr]

Seems like Abdeslam has been grabbed.

May his testicles be hit by hammers and his finger nails be pulled out slowly - Accidentally, of course.

Mabe some sharia law fr him!

Can he be sent somewhere that permits death by slow slicing?

[Scouse Hibee]

Seems like Abdeslam has been grabbed.

May his testicles be hit by hammers and his finger nails be pulled out slowly - Accidentally, of course.

Give him a ringside seat as his family and friends are gunned down then burn him alive. Is that too severe? ;-)

[Future17]

Give him a ringside seat as his family and friends are gunned down then burn him alive. Is that too severe? ;-)

Even the presence of a "wink smilie" doesn't make that acceptable. Disgusting from you really.

[Scouse Hibee]

Even the presence of a "wink smilie" doesn't make that acceptable. Disgusting from you really.

Of course it's not acceptable, do you really think that I would seriously consider that sort of vengeance. I said it to emphasise just how horrific the atrocities committed by him were. So away with your disgusting tag precious.

[Future17]

Of course it's not acceptable, do you really think that I would seriously consider that sort of vengeance. I said it to emphasise just how horrific the atrocities committed by him were. So away with your disgusting tag precious.

I have absolutely no idea what you would or would not consider, and no way of picking up your apparent subtle intention from your post.

It's a family forum, your post was disgusting and, from your defensive reaction, I assume you now realise that.

[Scouse Hibee]

No I don't,I suggest you put me on ignore if I offend you that easily.

[Berwickhibby]

Personally I would have him publicly flogged then stoned to death, as this seems acceptable punishment from ISIS.... No smiley


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[CapitalGreen]

Personally I would have him publicly flogged then stoned to death, as this seems acceptable punishment from ISIS.... No smiley


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So you wish we were more like ISIS?

[Berwickhibby]

So what would you suggest is an appropriate punishment for masterminding the murder of 130 innocent civilians and causing many injuries to others?....


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[CropleyWasGod]

So what would you suggest is an appropriate punishment for masterminding the murder of 130 innocent civilians and causing many injuries to others?....


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For a start, we could subject him to due process of law, and give him a fair trial. None of this nonsense of leaking stuff that he's supposed to have said to the investigators.

[Sir David Gray]

So what would you suggest is an appropriate punishment for masterminding the murder of 130 innocent civilians and causing many injuries to others?....


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Life imprisonment, with no possibility of parole and locked in a cell for 23 hours a day.

[Scouse Hibee]

For a start, we could subject him to due process of law, and give him a fair trial. None of this nonsense of leaking stuff that he's supposed to have said to the investigators.

Sorry I know you're right but there are times when I feel due process and fair trial do not belong and this is one of them. Totally wrong of me but that's how I feel sometimes.

[hibsbollah]

Explosions at Brussels airport being reported just now.

[Hibrandenburg]

Explosions at Brussels airport being reported just now.

Radicals on both sides will be rubbing their hands in glee.

[Berwickhibby]

Retaliation after the arrest of Abdeslam by attacking innocent people and according to the TV at least 10 have been murdered. Where were the due process for those victims.


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[johnbc70]

Explosions in Metro now.

[Salt N Sauzee]

4 metro stations apparently attacked as well.

[(((Fergus)))]

Radicals on both sides will be rubbing their hands in glee.

Radical muslims will be handing out candy, radical liberals will be blaming themselves as usual.

[Hibrandenburg]

Radical muslims will be handing out candy, radical liberals will be blaming themselves as usual.

And radical biffers will be fine tuning their xenophobic rhetoric and getting their social media memes in order. All our efforts should be concentrated on hunting these dogs down.

[CB_NO3]

I can see these European Championships in France being a shambles.

[CropleyWasGod]

And radical biffers will be fine tuning their xenophobic rhetoric and getting their social media memes in order. All our efforts should be concentrated on hunting these dogs down.

And then there's this:-

https://twitter.com/allisonpearson?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Es erp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

[CropleyWasGod]

Sorry I know you're right but there are times when I feel due process and fair trial do not belong and this is one of them. Totally wrong of me but that's how I feel sometimes.

Emotional reactions are not "wrong", per se.

However, that's exactly what "they" want (whoever they are, and I'm open to persuasion) to try and justify what happens next.

[Future17]

Retaliation after the arrest of Abdeslam by attacking innocent people and according to the TV at least 10 have been murdered. Where were the due process for those victims.

I can't help but wonder whether this would have happened anyway, was a result of the arrest, or was a result of the subsequent handling/publicity surrounding the arrest.

I found the actions of the prosecutor to be almost provocative, as though they were attempting to goad the remaining cells/cell members into attacking.

Obviously I'm not saying there is any excuse whatsoever for these attacks. I hope those responsible are found and stopped asap.

[Pete]

Probably just getting the attacks out the way before Abdeslam blabs.

[Rasta_Hibs]

Lets make it clear now.

This has nothing at all to do with muslims.

This has nothing at all to do with Merkels open door policy.

This has nothing do to a failed multicultural policy / social engineering by the liberals.

It happens in the middle east so therefore we should really accept this as part of modern western life and welcome more an more radicals into western society.

[CropleyWasGod]

Lets make it clear now.

This has nothing at all to do with muslims.

This has nothing at all to do with Merkels open door policy.

This has nothing do to a failed multicultural policy / social engineering by the liberals.

It happens in the middle east so therefore we should really accept this as part of modern western life and welcome more an more radicals into western society.

I knew you would see sense eventually :wink:

[Hibbyradge]

Lets make it clear now.

This has nothing at all to do with muslims.

This has nothing at all to do with Merkels open door policy.

This has nothing do to a failed multicultural policy / social engineering by the liberals.

It happens in the middle east so therefore we should really accept this as part of modern western life and welcome more an more radicals into western society.

Just out of curiosity, did you blame all Catholics during the IRA's campaign or just all the Irish?

[Hibrandenburg]

Lets make it clear now.

This has nothing at all to do with muslims.

This has nothing at all to do with Merkels open door policy.

This has nothing do to a failed multicultural policy / social engineering by the liberals.

It happens in the middle east so therefore we should really accept this as part of modern western life and welcome more an more radicals into western society.

I feel your glee!

[Rasta_Hibs]

I knew you would see sense eventually :wink:

Well I have come to learn that living in denial works for some so im giving it a try!

[Rasta_Hibs]

Just out of curiosity, did you blame all Catholics during the IRA's campaign or just all the Irish?

No rather, I just balance recent events with the Christian crusades of the past and then I can see the muslim radicals point!

Open the borders, let them all in!!!

[steakbake]

Multiculturalism, tolerance and liberal values are the enemies of both ISIS and the reactionary right.

They have much more in common through their pursuit of division.

[Rasta_Hibs]

Multiculturalism, tolerance and liberal values are the enemies of both ISIS and the reactionary right.

They have much more in common through their pursuit of division.

The most intolerable ideology on earth is the Liberal one!

If you do not think like a liberal then you are racist and all the rest of the labels thrown about.

Forgetting that most right wing thinking people are very tolerant and have tolerated many different cultures in our country but there does come a point where I think ok this has gone to far time to push back on extreme liberal thinking as they are making a disgusting mess of nations.

[steakbake]

The liberal elite and the pc brigade: the favourite tropes of the right.

I don't really think the right can be identified as a tolerant bunch. Historically speaking.

[Moulin Yarns]

This thread has brought the village idiots out in force.

[Hibrandenburg]

Probably just getting the attacks out the way before Abdeslam blabs.

That's a decent theory.

[hibsbollah]

Lets make it clear now.

This has nothing at all to do with muslims.

This has nothing at all to do with Merkels open door policy.

This has nothing do to a failed multicultural policy / social engineering by the liberals.

It happens in the middle east so therefore we should really accept this as part of modern western life and welcome more an more radicals into western society.

Paragraph 1: sarcasm fails...no one is suggesting this?
P2: agree
P3: agree
P4: see P1.

But still, your best post on the subject so far.

[Moulin Yarns]

No rather, I just balance recent events with the Christian crusades of the past and then I can see the muslim radicals point!

Open the borders, let them all in!!!

I don't think even football fans hold a grudge for that long :wink:

[Moulin Yarns]

most right wing thinking people are very tolerant and have tolerated many different cultures.

I have no idea when you had the humour transplant but that could win the perrier award at the Fringe this year

[Moulin Yarns]

This is an interesting article for anyone who thinks the threat from so called Islamic State is the worst thing we have ever faced.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/11/28/islamic-state-terrorism-threat_n_8670458.html

[Hibbyradge]

Sound familiar?

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/mar/23/london-man-confronted-muslim-woman-explain-brussels-attacks-arrested?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GU+Today+main+NEW+H&utm_term=163449&subid=16631905&CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2

[Moulin Yarns]

Sound familiar?

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/mar/23/london-man-confronted-muslim-woman-explain-brussels-attacks-arrested?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GU+Today+main+NEW+H&utm_term=163449&subid=16631905&CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2


https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/1193_1145736252133783_973857153667175756_n.jpg?oh= 2c3a7be7ecf7e9ad2a0bccdd6b6dfc33&oe=579429F0

[Hibbyradge]

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/1193_1145736252133783_973857153667175756_n.jpg?oh= 2c3a7be7ecf7e9ad2a0bccdd6b6dfc33&oe=579429F0

The reason people feel a much greater connection to European countries, is because we can empathise with the people there as we've been to those countries.

However, if/when ISIS commit an atrocity in Gdansk, or Minsk or Bucharest, I doubt we'll see the same levels of grief/empathy as we saw in Brussels and Paris.

If someone is murdered in your next door neighbour's house, you will be affected far more profoundly than if it happened 2 miles away, never mind in another city/country/continent.

It's about proximity and familiarity, not race. Mostly.

[overdrive]

I'm not one for conspiracy theories, particularly when it comes to terrorism but is it just me or do the 3 suspects on the CCTV footage look nothing like the folk the authorities are saying they are?

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I'm not one for conspiracy theories, particularly when it comes to terrorism but is it just me or do the 3 suspects on the CCTV footage look nothing like the folk the authorities are saying they are?

I would imagine thats the case now for at least two of them.

[Scouse Hibee]

I would imagine thats the case now for at least two of them.

Hahahaha brilliant!

[DaveF]

While Belgium is getting a pasting for largely ignoring a localised Muslim problem, in Glasgow we have an Imam showing his support for the Pakistani bodyguard who shot a minister 28 items claiming it was his religious duty.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-35893123

Of course, he claims his comments are out of context, but let's hope our security services are keeping an eye on this one given his position and influence.

[TheReg!]

While Belgium is getting a pasting for largely ignoring a localised Muslim problem, in Glasgow we have an Imam showing his support for the Pakistani bodyguard who shot a minister 28 items claiming it was his religious duty.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-35893123

Of course, he claims his comments are out of context, but let's hope our security services are keeping an eye on this one given his position and influence.

And so they should keep an eye on this fella, it just goes to show that even here in Scotland we have problems within the Islamic community, it raised its head Thursday night when that poor shop keeper was allegedly killed by someone who took offence that he wished Christians a happy Easter (WTF) It's one thing after another after another and it's forever getting brushed under the carpet at every turn.

[Sir David Gray]

I would imagine thats the case now for at least two of them.

:faf: :top marks

[Sir David Gray]

While Belgium is getting a pasting for largely ignoring a localised Muslim problem, in Glasgow we have an Imam showing his support for the Pakistani bodyguard who shot a minister 28 items claiming it was his religious duty.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-35893123

Of course, he claims his comments are out of context, but let's hope our security services are keeping an eye on this one given his position and influence.

:agree: Shocking comments to make from someone who holds a very powerful position within the Islamic community in Scotland.

Also interesting to note the deafening silence coming out of Nicola Sturgeon over this incident. She was quick to condemn Donald Trump for his remarks towards Muslims recently and made sure everyone knew how she felt about him.

Where's the condemnation now, Nicola?

The guy's just praised someone who murdered another human being because he had the audacity to challenge Pakistan's medieval blasphemy laws and defended a woman who had been convicted of criticising Muhammad and who is still on death row because of it.

He should be challenged by Sturgeon and forced to resign from his position but this sort of argument doesn't suit her agenda so she'll say nothing.

Disgraceful.

[johnbc70]

Good point, where are the party leaders condemning what this guy has said? Why would they ignore it?

[Hibrandenburg]

Good point, where are the party leaders condemning what this guy has said? Why would they ignore it?

Should they make weekly statements condemning all the nonsense our religious leaders talk or just the muslim ones?

[Scouse Hibee]

Should they make weekly statements condemning all the nonsense our religious leaders talk or just the muslim ones?

Just the ones that are topical and have recent relevance to her previous statements

[Hibrandenburg]

Just the ones that are topical and have recent relevance to her previous statements

So every week then?

[Scouse Hibee]

So every week then?

Not necessarily, depends on how often she spouts her own ******.

[Sir David Gray]

Should they make weekly statements condemning all the nonsense our religious leaders talk or just the muslim ones?

When the leaders of the Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Sikh and Buddhist faiths in Scotland start praising extremists within their own communities who have committed murder because they don't like a point of view that someone has made then I would hope she would criticise them too.

For the time being, criticising this Imam would be a great start.

I won't hold my breath.

[CropleyWasGod]

I suspect that political pressure has been put on, behind the scenes, which IMO is probably a sensible approach. Hence this:-

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/glasgow-mosque-issues-apology-after-7636889#AlkSXSzJHRCJK7uC.97

[Hibrandenburg]

I suspect that political pressure has been put on, behind the scenes, which IMO is probably a sensible approach. Hence this:-

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/glasgow-mosque-issues-apology-after-7636889#AlkSXSzJHRCJK7uC.97

Won't be enough for some. For some reason every muslim needs to individually apologise for every nutter that claims to follow Islam.

[Sir David Gray]

I suspect that political pressure has been put on, behind the scenes, which IMO is probably a sensible approach. Hence this:-

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/glasgow-mosque-issues-apology-after-7636889#AlkSXSzJHRCJK7uC.97

I don't see any apology in that statement.

Saying that your comments have been misinterpreted and taken out of context isn't an apology.

[DaveF]

I see the bloke charged with the senseless murder of the Glasgow shopkeeper last week is from Bradford.

Clearly I don't know the exact details of it all but it seems likely (from the press noise) that it was down to the comments made online in wishing a happy easter to his christian customers. If it turns out to the case, I wonder if the Glasgow Imam will re-consider his comments over praising 'moral duty' killings.

[nairn hibee]

I see the bloke charged with the senseless murder of the Glasgow shopkeeper last week is from Bradford.

Clearly I don't know the exact details of it all but it seems likely (from the press noise) that it was down to the comments made online in wishing a happy easter to his christian customers. If it turns out to the case, I wonder if the Glasgow Imam will re-consider his comments over praising 'moral duty' killings.
I would'nt hold your breath

[DaveF]

Statement from the lowlife who murdered the shopkeeper. Lots of references to peace but none shown to his victim.

"This all happened for one reason and no other issues and no other intentions.
"Asad Shah disrespected the messenger of Islam the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. Mr Shah claimed to be a Prophet.
"When 1400 years ago the Prophet of Islam Muhammad peace be upon him has clearly said that 'I am the final messenger of Allah there is no more prophets or messengers from God Allah after me.
"'I am leaving you the final Quran. There is no changes. It is the final book of Allah and this is the final completion of Islam. There is no more changes to it and no one has the right to claim to be a Prophet or to change the Quran or change Islam.'
"It is mentioned in the Quran that there is no doubt in this book no one has the right to disrespect the sayings of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him and no one has the right to disrespect the Prophet of Islam Muhammad Peace be upon him.
"If I had not done this others would and there would have been more killing and violence in the world.
"I wish to make it clear that the incident was nothing at all to do with Christianity or any other religious beliefs even although I am a follower of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him I also love and respect Jesus Christ."

[Sir David Gray]

Statement from the lowlife who murdered the shopkeeper. Lots of references to peace but none shown to his victim.

"This all happened for one reason and no other issues and no other intentions.
"Asad Shah disrespected the messenger of Islam the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. Mr Shah claimed to be a Prophet.
"When 1400 years ago the Prophet of Islam Muhammad peace be upon him has clearly said that 'I am the final messenger of Allah there is no more prophets or messengers from God Allah after me.
"'I am leaving you the final Quran. There is no changes. It is the final book of Allah and this is the final completion of Islam. There is no more changes to it and no one has the right to claim to be a Prophet or to change the Quran or change Islam.'
"It is mentioned in the Quran that there is no doubt in this book no one has the right to disrespect the sayings of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him and no one has the right to disrespect the Prophet of Islam Muhammad Peace be upon him.
"If I had not done this others would and there would have been more killing and violence in the world.
"I wish to make it clear that the incident was nothing at all to do with Christianity or any other religious beliefs even although I am a follower of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him I also love and respect Jesus Christ."

Shocking.

I see the article also mentions that Asad Shah was an Ahmadiyya Muslim and it's interesting to note that they are banned from identifying themselves as Muslims in Pakistan and they are persecuted by people who adhere to mainstream Islam in many other countries across the world.

Hopefully this guy gets a very long sentence.

[(((Fergus)))]

Shocking.

I see the article also mentions that Asad Shah was an Ahmadiyya Muslim and it's interesting to note that they are banned from identifying themselves as Muslims in Pakistan and they are persecuted by people who adhere to mainstream Islam in many other countries across the world.

Hopefully this guy gets a very long sentence.

I've also noticed that whenever muslim organisations/leaders condemn the latest instance of muslim terrorism, a large number of these orgs/leaders are Ahmadiyya muslims.

If you ignore the Nobel Peace Prize, there have been two "Muslim" Nobel laureates, one of them an Ahmadiyya from Pakistan. When he was buried there, the epitaph on his tomb initially read "First Muslim Nobel Laureate". The word "Muslim" was later removed by local authorities. More about their treatment here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1573619/Pakistan-clerics-persecute-non-Muslims.html

[Sir David Gray]

I've also noticed that whenever muslim organisations/leaders condemn the latest instance of muslim terrorism, a large number of these orgs/leaders are Ahmadiyya muslims.

If you ignore the Nobel Peace Prize, there have been two "Muslim" Nobel laureates, one of them an Ahmadiyya from Pakistan. When he was buried there, the epitaph on his tomb initially read "First Muslim Nobel Laureate". The word "Muslim" was later removed by local authorities. More about their treatment here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1573619/Pakistan-clerics-persecute-non-Muslims.html

:agree: Read quite a bit about their treatment in Pakistan on another article at the time of the murder, absolutely disgraceful.

Here's a bit more here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Ahmadis#Pakistan

[Rasta_Hibs]

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/18/scottish-muslim-groups-ahmadi-anti-extremism-campaign-launch-glasgow

The main mosque in Glasgow did not attend the anti-extremism march /rally.

Why?

[CropleyWasGod]

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/18/scottish-muslim-groups-ahmadi-anti-extremism-campaign-launch-glasgow

The main mosque in Glasgow did not attend the anti-extremism march /rally.

Why?

The reason is quite clear, no?

It's an Ahmadi initiative, and mainstream Islam don't care for them.

A similar example might be the Free Kirk, or the Westboro Baptist Church, taking the lead on something "in the name of Christianity", and mainstream Churches ignoring it for that very reason.

[Moulin Yarns]

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/18/scottish-muslim-groups-ahmadi-anti-extremism-campaign-launch-glasgow

The main mosque in Glasgow did not attend the anti-extremism march /rally.

Why?

The most telling part of that article comes right at the end.


Following Shah’s death, Aamer Anwar, one of Scotland’s most outspoken Muslim reformers, helped to broker a unique event where representatives of Sunni, Shia, Ahmadi and Pakistani Christian communities shared a platform for the first time, and vowed to stand shoulder to shoulder against extremism.

At the time, Anwar said: “A very small minority of the community may think it’s OK to meddle in the cesspit of violent extremist politics in Pakistan, but we are united in saying that we do not want to import sectarian violence that has caused so much division and so much bloodshed to our community or to our streets.”

He has since received death threats himself, which are under investigation by the police.


So, Muslims of all persuasions were able to come together to condemn extremism, but you choose to question the Glasgow Central Mosque for not sending someone to another rally. Maybe, just maybe, they were busy that day, organising their own campaign. You don't know the full facts behind it, and neither do I.

[Rasta_Hibs]

The reason is quite clear, no?

It's an Ahmadi initiative, and mainstream Islam don't care for them.

A similar example might be the Free Kirk, or the Westboro Baptist Church, taking the lead on something "in the name of Christianity", and mainstream Churches ignoring it for that very reason.

Thanks for your reply.

Do you have an example of a member of the Free Kirk stabbing to death a member of Westboro Baptist Church for insulting Christianity?

If not then I don't see the comparison.

[CropleyWasGod]

Thanks for your reply.

Do you have an example of a member of the Free Kirk stabbing to death a member of Westboro Baptist Church for insulting Christianity?

If not then I don't see the comparison.

The comparison was not about the stabbing.

It was about the fact that all religions have shades of opinion, some of which are extremely divisive, to the point where some of those opinions won't share a platform with others. The Free Kirk and the WBP wouldn't get invited to many ecumenical Christian rallies, I'm sure, and the enmity would be mutual. The same applies in the instance of the rally in Glasgow.

[Moulin Yarns]

Thanks for your reply.

Do you have an example of a member of the Free Kirk stabbing to death a member of Westboro Baptist Church for insulting Christianity?

If not then I don't see the comparison.

I'm feeling left out, you don't have a stupid remark to make on my response. :wink:

[Rasta_Hibs]

The comparison was not about the stabbing.

It was about the fact that all religions have shades of opinion, some of which are extremely divisive, to the point where some of those opinions won't share a platform with others. The Free Kirk and the WBP wouldn't get invited to many ecumenical Christian rallies, I'm sure, and the enmity would be mutual. The same applies in the instance of the rally in Glasgow.

But you have to keep the comparison in context with the stabbing and the religions involved. Your comparison was at best random.

[Rasta_Hibs]

The most telling part of that article comes right at the end.



So, Muslims of all persuasions were able to come together to condemn extremism, but you choose to question the Glasgow Central Mosque for not sending someone to another rally. Maybe, just maybe, they were busy that day, organising their own campaign. You don't know the full facts behind it, and neither do I.

But they were not and have not been organising any such rally.

Here are some links about the Glasgow Central Mosque that gives a clear indication on why they didn't attend.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/glasgow-central-mosque-accused-hiding-links-anti-ahmadi-hate-speech-group-1555662

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14395499.Anti_terror_police_launch_probe_into_Glas gow_Central_Mosque_leader_s_Pakistani_terror_link/

http://www.scotsman.com/glasgow/overhaul-at-scandal-hit-glasgow-mosque-could-take-years-1-4089128

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-35928089

[Rasta_Hibs]

Liberal self delusion on mass immigration - not only my thoughts it seems.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/10/britain-sleepwalking-to-catastrophe-over-race-trevor-phillips/

[hibsbollah]

Liberal self delusion on mass immigration - not only my thoughts it seems.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/10/britain-sleepwalking-to-catastrophe-over-race-trevor-phillips/

I've read that report twice now and I've yet to see much that puts you and Trevor Phillips in the same place politically, except that you both think 'we need to be less afraid to talk about race'.

[Rasta_Hibs]

I've read that report twice now and I've yet to see much that puts you and Trevor Phillips in the same place politically, except that you both think 'we need to be less afraid to talk about race'.

A quick response is that I think the problem is not with race but a problem with different cultures.

Also I was shouted down for using the term mass immigration when that is exactly what is happening and part of the problem as per Trevor Phillips thoughts.

[hibsbollah]

A quick response is that I think the problem is not with race but a problem with different cultures.

Also I was shouted down for using the term mass immigration when that is exactly what is happening and part of the problem as per Trevor Phillips thoughts.

No you weren't shouted down. You weren't making your case very well, either here or on the new year asylum seekers (who were mostly in fact non asylum seekers as we've now established) German rape thread(stuff about the right wing 'being very tolerant' and getting all apocalyptic about some bloody ending and this being caused by the left wing etc etc), and then when this was pointed out you spent three pages just doing sarcasm. This got so confusing I actually thought you had changed your mind at one point. A Father Ted episode sprang to mind.

People usually complain about being 'shouted down' when they've run out of new stuff to say.

[Rasta_Hibs]

No you weren't shouted down. You weren't making your case very well, either here or on the new year asylum seekers (who were mostly in fact non asylum seekers as we've now established) German rape thread(stuff about the right wing 'being very tolerant' and getting all apocalyptic about some bloody ending and this being caused by the left wing etc etc), and then when this was pointed out you spent three pages just doing sarcasm. This got so confusing I actually thought you had changed your mind at one point. A Father Ted episode sprang to mind.

People usually complain about being 'shouted down' when they've run out of new stuff to say.

Many were indeed asylum seekers who committed the attacks in Germany the rest were migrants. The main point being is that they were not German born nationals who were committing the New Years attacks - This we can agree on?

I was not far of the mark with my comments on who was responsible. Certainly I feel I was more accurate that another poster laying the blame at German nationals with the comment along the lines of - 'This happens at Octoberfest every year'

The comment about the ring wing being tolerant I stand by. As for many generations we have lived side by side tolerating many different cultures. But as I have said mass immigration of cultures that do no want to mix well this is where the problems lay.

[Moulin Yarns]

Second generation Muslim immigrant elected mayor of London Shocker!! :greengrin



Is the election of Sadiq Khan as Lord Mayor of London something which really beats the trend of disenchantment with immigrants or are both UK and London really different? It needs examination in the light of the prevailing environment all over the West, the deepening Islamophobia, the throwback from the effects of the threats posed to Western culture from the migration still underway from Syria and North Africa, the hugely polarizing effects of Trumpism spreading through America and the continuing shenanigans of radical elements everywhere. That is a mouthful in favor of the belief that the Western world has closed ranks to protect its value system and wall off the negative effects of radicalism which has adversely affected its security. In the light of this is Sadiq Khan’s election a flash in the pan or does it allude to the prevalence of inherent tolerance in Western society that accepts individuals for their worth.

A ray of hope for people with a balanced outlook who abhor xenophobia, Sadiq Khan's triumph is a reiteration of liberalism in UK.

[Smartie]

Many were indeed asylum seekers who committed the attacks in Germany the rest were migrants. The main point being is that they were not German born nationals who were committing the New Years attacks - This we can agree on?

I was not far of the mark with my comments on who was responsible. Certainly I feel I was more accurate that another poster laying the blame at German nationals with the comment along the lines of - 'This happens at Octoberfest every year'

The comment about the ring wing being tolerant I stand by. As for many generations we have lived side by side tolerating many different cultures. But as I have said mass immigration of cultures that do no want to mix well this is where the problems lay.

I'm pretty sure this line was being peddled a lot in the mid/ late 19th century in Edinburgh.

There is a certain irony that a Hibs supporter should choose to follow this line on a Hibs supporters website.

[Rasta_Hibs]

Second generation Muslim immigrant elected mayor of London Shocker!! :greengrin

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/islamic-glory-be-to-god-adverts-to-appear-on-bradford-buses-months-after-christian-ad-ban-1-7902597

[Rasta_Hibs]

I'm pretty sure this line was being peddled a lot in the mid/ late 19th century in Edinburgh.

There is a certain irony that a Hibs supporter should choose to follow this line on a Hibs supporters website.

Smartie I do see your point and I have thought about it being a supporter of a team with irish immigrants so closely tied with Hibs history.

But I do not think the comparison works well when discussing immigration from the Middle East.

It's a great point of discussion as to why there is a difference between the kinds of immigration.

[Moulin Yarns]

Smartie I do see your point and I have thought about it being a supporter of a team with irish immigrants so closely tied with Hibs history.

But I do not think the comparison works well when discussing immigration from the Middle East.

It's a great point of discussion as to why there is a difference between the kinds of immigration.


Ok, I'll ask the question what are the differences, in your eyes, between the migration to the UK and beyond from Ireland in the 19th century and the migration to Europe and beyond from the Syrian conflict?

[hibsbollah]

Ok, I'll ask the question what are the differences, in your eyes, between the migration to the UK and beyond from Ireland in the 19th century and the migration to Europe and beyond from the Syrian conflict?

The answer is not a lot. Causal factors in both is 1. Global inequality and poverty 2. Western imperialism and 3. War. A brief dig into history books also tells us that Syrian refugees will experience far less racism and religious intolerance and definitely far less relative and absolute poverty than the inhabitants of the Cowgate in the 1850s. We are a much more tolerant and enlightened society now. Well some of us are anyway.

[Moulin Yarns]

The answer is not a lot. Causal factors in both is 1. Global inequality and poverty 2. Western imperialism and 3. War. A brief dig into history books also tells us that Syrian refugees will experience far less racism and religious intolerance and definitely far less relative and absolute poverty than the inhabitants of the Cowgate in the 1850s. We are a much more tolerant and enlightened society now. Well some of us are anyway.

God answer, I wonder if everyone agrees though?

[hibsbollah]

God answer, I wonder if everyone agrees though?

Actually it's a wee bit wrong, 'War' wasn't a causal factor of the Irish migration at all, although a war resulted from the fallout from it eventually. If it was a history essay some smart erse lecturer would probably pick me up on that :greengrin

[Moulin Yarns]

Actually it's a wee bit wrong, 'War' wasn't a causal factor of the Irish migration at all, although a war resulted from the fallout from it eventually. If it was a history essay some smart erse lecturer would probably pick me up on that :greengrin


You haven't told us if the Irish immigrants were Catholic Muslims or Protestant Muslims though. It matters to some :wink:

[(((Fergus)))]

Quite a remarkable interview with Jesse Hughes of Eagles of Death Metal with some previously unknown (to me) details of the Bataclan massacre

http://takimag.com/article/surrendering_to_death_gavin_mcinnes

[Rasta_Hibs]

Quite a remarkable interview with Jesse Hughes of Eagles of Death Metal with some previously unknown (to me) details of the Bataclan massacre

http://takimag.com/article/surrendering_to_death_gavin_mcinnes

It is very sobering article to read.

But the details in it are very telling of todays culture.

The liberals have opened the door to the most conservative ideology on earth.

[(((Fergus)))]

It is very sobering article to read.

But the details in it are very telling of todays culture.

The liberals have opened the door to the most conservative ideology on earth.

Conservative in the sense of averse to change. Unlike political conservatism, however, it is utterly illiberal – yet, as you say, appeased and enabled by "liberals".

[Nazz]

Quite a remarkable interview with Jesse Hughes of Eagles of Death Metal with some previously unknown (to me) details of the Bataclan massacre

http://takimag.com/article/surrendering_to_death_gavin_mcinnes

Just to follow up from this, here's a few articles on the BBC:

13 March Eagles of Death Metal singer sorry for Bataclan guards comments (http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-35797322)

“Hughes responded on Friday, saying: "I humbly beg forgiveness from the people of France, the staff and security of the Bataclan, my fans, my family, friends and anyone else hurt or offended by the absurd accusations I made in my Fox Business Channel interview."”

20 May Eagles of Death Metal dropped by two French festivals over Bataclan comments
(http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-36340715)
“It is unclear why the musician has revisited his comments now, although McInnes, who co-founded Vice and is a frequent commentator on Fox, is known for being provocative.
Last year, the writer was asked to take an "indefinite leave of absence" from Rooster, an advertising company he set up, after publishing an article titled "Transphobia Is Perfectly Natural" on a website called Thought Catalog.”



(http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-36340715)

[Sylar]

I start this by saying that I'm a huge Eagles of Death Metal fan. Have been since LONG before what transpired in Paris. I've been to their shows, I own their albums and they're an excellent band that have previously prided themselves on inclusion, love and entertainment. They model themselves on the rock and roll bands of old and Jesse Hughes is an excellent front man for them, often reminiscent of an evangelic preacher with his enthusiasm.

But I lost a LOT of respect for him reading that interview. I thought the following was an excellent rebuttal from a fellow survivor of Le Bataclan and he's right on point with a lot of his comments.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jesse-hughes-youre-wrong-i-survived-the-paris-bataclan-attacks-and-it-was-a-fellow-muslim-who-saved-a7047641.html