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Islington Hibs
17-03-2016, 06:21 PM
Getting in the semis could be a big pay day- are the proceeds of the two semi's not pooled? Rangers Celtic will be a sell out and I would have thought tickets would be fully priced for this. I would have though our game would get 25k+ plus TV money. That could work our £300/400k each.

On top of that one cup final, 2 unscheduled games v Hearts - the whole lot could easily add up to £1m+

What ever happens this season that is a decent unexpected nest egg.

21.05.2016
17-03-2016, 06:46 PM
how many fans roughly do you think utd will bring? I'd imagine a fair amount

Smartie
17-03-2016, 06:48 PM
how many fans roughly do you think utd will bring? I'd imagine a fair amount

They're rallying behind their club a bit at the moment so I'd imagine they'd take a few more than normal.

hibs0666
17-03-2016, 06:51 PM
There was 27000 there the last time.

Zazu62
17-03-2016, 06:54 PM
There was 27000 there the last time.

What game ?

Onion
17-03-2016, 06:54 PM
how many fans roughly do you think utd will bring? I'd imagine a fair amount

For a semi, you'd expect good numbers but will be affected by their league form and situation. Could easily be relegated or on brink by then which would reduce by a few thou.

My guess, 8-10k

NAE NOOKIE
17-03-2016, 07:45 PM
In the early rounds we probably just about cover costs in cup games, probably the same with our cut from ICT last night .... but on a very wild guess if you presume we average £8 a seat for every fan after costs ( including cup top ups ) every game we have / will play with a crowd over 10,000 if you half the crowd would be roughly.

Aberdeen (LC) ............... 5,546
Dundee Utd (LC) ............ 5,945
Yams (SC) ..................... 8,422
Yams (SC) ..................... 9,716
ICT (SC) ....................... 5,000

LC Semis ....... 1/4 share of 38,830 = 9,707

LC Final ......................................... 19,463

SC Semis ....... 1/4 share of 77,000? = 19,250

Total = 83,049 ..... X £8 = £664,393

Chuck in TV revenue, pies, Bovril, cup final merchandise and we will be close to three quarters of a million quid from our cup runs this season. The whole thing could be wildly inaccurate of course ... but whatever it is, its a hell of a lot more than if we had been pumped out early in both competitions :greengrin

FastEddieFelson
17-03-2016, 07:49 PM
What game ?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_div_1/4424585.stm

Leith Green
17-03-2016, 07:58 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_div_1/4424585.stm

Im sure we sold 22k for that game.. They had 5k

superfurryhibby
17-03-2016, 08:03 PM
There was 27000 there the last time.

Saturday, maybe a 3pm KO, not sure though.

The last semi final against them was a sore one to take. Ahead and in control overall, to being a goal down over the space of five minutes. Fonder memories of the 1993 League Cup semi at Tynecastle though.

I'm looking forward to the next game at Hampden, thinking that Utd have improved recently but also that they are there for the taking.

mjhibby
17-03-2016, 08:10 PM
In the early rounds we probably just about cover costs in cup games, probably the same with our cut from ICT last night .... but on a very wild guess if you presume we average £8 a seat for every fan after costs ( including cup top ups ) every game we have / will play with a crowd over 10,000 if you half the crowd would be roughly.

Aberdeen (LC) ............... 5,546
Dundee Utd (LC) ............ 5,945
Yams (SC) ..................... 8,422
Yams (SC) ..................... 9,716
ICT (SC) ....................... 5,000

LC Semis ....... 1/4 share of 38,830 = 9,707

LC Final ......................................... 19,463

SC Semis ....... 1/4 share of 77,000? = 19,250

Total = 83,049 ..... X £8 = £664,393

Chuck in TV revenue, pies, Bovril, cup final merchandise and we will be close to three quarters of a million quid from our cup runs this season. The whole thing could be wildly inaccurate of course ... but whatever it is, its a hell of a lot more than if we had been pumped out early in both competitions :greengrin

I would think we would have made £400,000 from the two hertz games including 80 grand from TV of the first tie. The liminal would have been worth another £350,000 and the SC Semis another £300,000 so I think the money will be closer to £1.1m and of course would be a lot more should we make the SC final. The accounts should look very healthy indeed.

Jonnyboy
17-03-2016, 08:21 PM
I would think we would have made £400,000 from the two hertz games including 80 grand from TV of the first tie. The liminal would have been worth another £350,000 and the SC Semis another £300,000 so I think the money will be closer to £1.1m and of course would be a lot more should we make the SC final. The accounts should look very healthy indeed.

Amounting to a £1 donation from every Hearts fan

Gerard
17-03-2016, 08:25 PM
Amounting to a £1 donation from every Hearts fan

I thought that the stat of 400,000 is an old one and they now have 4,000,000 now or more:wink:

21.05.2016
17-03-2016, 08:30 PM
For a semi, you'd expect good numbers but will be affected by their league form and situation. Could easily be relegated or on brink by then which would reduce by a few thou.

My guess, 8-10k

Really?! I'd imagined much more than that. Aberdeen filled half the stadium when we played them in the 2012 semi.

CropleyWasGod
17-03-2016, 08:35 PM
I would think we would have made £400,000 from the two hertz games including 80 grand from TV of the first tie. The liminal would have been worth another £350,000 and the SC Semis another £300,000 so I think the money will be closer to £1.1m and of course would be a lot more should we make the SC final. The accounts should look very healthy indeed.

... and will make the HSL and share issues look like the work of genius. :greengrin

lyonhibs
17-03-2016, 08:51 PM
Really?! I'd imagined much more than that. Aberdeen filled half the stadium when we played them in the 2012 semi.

Eh??

There was 14,000 or so there from each side that day. 14,000 is not half of 52,000 I regret to report 😝

hibs0666
17-03-2016, 08:56 PM
What game ?

2005 semi.

LaMotta
17-03-2016, 09:02 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_div_1/4424585.stm

Jim McIntyre has really done us some damage at Hampden over the years.

LaMotta
17-03-2016, 09:03 PM
how many fans roughly do you think utd will bring? I'd imagine a fair amount

I think total crowd at the game will be less than 20k.

macca70
17-03-2016, 09:06 PM
I think the Hibs turn out for the semi will only be about 10k-12k

I've heard loads of folk that were at League Cup final say they'll be watching this 1 on the telly.

The overseasers/down southers are unlikely to make the trip for a semi and unlikely that folk will be taking mates, wife's, grannies.

The early kick off won't help either.

Disappointment from Sunday maybe still a bit raw with folk but I don't think there will be as big a turn out for the semi as some folk think.

GlesgaeHibby
17-03-2016, 10:11 PM
Jim McIntyre has really done us some damage at Hampden over the years.

Jason Scotland has done us some damage too!

LaMotta
17-03-2016, 10:27 PM
Jason Scotland has done us some damage too!

Aye true!!

B.H.F.C
17-03-2016, 10:35 PM
I think the Hibs turn out for the semi will only be about 10k-12k

I've heard loads of folk that were at League Cup final say they'll be watching this 1 on the telly.

The overseasers/down southers are unlikely to make the trip for a semi and unlikely that folk will be taking mates, wife's, grannies.

The early kick off won't help either.

Disappointment from Sunday maybe still a bit raw with folk but I don't think there will be as big a turn out for the semi as some folk think.

Be nowhere near the number we had on Sunday but don't think as low as that. Somewhere between 15-20k IMO.

Smartie
17-03-2016, 10:39 PM
Jason Scotland has done us some damage too!

A front three of Jason Scotland, Jim McIntyre and Christian Nade would be utterly horrific on paper but would probably manage to score about 10 against us.

Mikey09
17-03-2016, 11:10 PM
I think total crowd at the game will be less than 20k.


Aye. The day trippers won't be there till the final... Ooh, controversial Jeff!! :greengrin

monktonharp
17-03-2016, 11:19 PM
Saturday, maybe a 3pm KO, not sure though.

The last semi final against them was a sore one to take. Ahead and in control overall, to being a goal down over the space of five minutes. Fonder memories of the 1993 League Cup semi at Tynecastle though.

I'm looking forward to the next game at Hampden, thinking that Utd have improved recently but also that they are there for the taking.that jim mc intire bassa has been a thorn in our side .DUTD, Pars, and County also at hampden and mostly against run of play and late on. I don't like that bad man:a bite:

Col2
17-03-2016, 11:27 PM
I think the Hibs turn out for the semi will only be about 10k-12k

I've heard loads of folk that were at League Cup final say they'll be watching this 1 on the telly.

The overseasers/down southers are unlikely to make the trip for a semi and unlikely that folk will be taking mates, wife's, grannies.

The early kick off won't help either.

Disappointment from Sunday maybe still a bit raw with folk but I don't think there will be as big a turn out for the semi as some folk think.

I know what your saying as I felt the same after cup final but after Wednesday night now looking forward to another big game!! I think 15k is reasonable estimate.

Dashing Bob S
17-03-2016, 11:32 PM
We'll take between 12-17 for a semi, they'll take between 5-10. So between 17 and 27 thousand will be the attendance. Hope that helps.

Col2
17-03-2016, 11:39 PM
Yup. My calculations are

League cup run
- net proceeds for us - £500k

Scottish cup run
- hertz net £350k
- ICT - minimal
- Semi final - net £300k
- Final (if we make it) - £500k

So guaranteed - £1.15m, with possibility £1.65m

And that is discounting anything we made from other rounds and any merchandise and TV income.

lyonhibs
18-03-2016, 07:23 AM
Jason Scotland has done us some damage too!

Gonnae no mention his name :grr::grr:

Jack
18-03-2016, 07:39 AM
Apart from the income from supporters there's prize money.
I don't know how much.

Jones28
18-03-2016, 08:08 AM
Good news if rumours are true that we are still running an 800k loss this season.

calumhibee1
18-03-2016, 08:13 AM
I know what your saying as I felt the same after cup final but after Wednesday night now looking forward to another big game!! I think 15k is reasonable estimate.

I think 15k is about right unfortunately. You'll have all your season ticket holders and most folk that have paid at the gate more than once or twice this season and then maybe a few strays. Other than that, I can't see many going.

hibsforeurope
18-03-2016, 08:13 AM
Did winning the CIS cup in 2007 not earn us around 1m on it own, reaching the final this year won't be far off that figure. The scottish cup run, with TV revenue and prize money will be more than what the league cup earned us.
This extra income will be a huge bonus, although we wont make massive profit it should avoid us making a loss this season.

Blaster
18-03-2016, 08:42 AM
Good news if rumours are true that we are still running an 800k loss this season.

Not my strong point but would we not expect to make a minimum loss of 500k each season to repay the debt, but also reduce the debt by 500k each year????

MB62
18-03-2016, 08:49 AM
Apart from the income from supporters there's prize money.
I don't know how much.

Don't think there will be much of that to talk about.

Nobody has mentioned the added expense that goes with cup runs, e.g. players bonuses and a wee overseas trip for the players for some sunny training camp.

We should make some money but it won't be fortunes.

CropleyWasGod
18-03-2016, 08:58 AM
Not my strong point but would we not expect to make a minimum loss of 500k each season to repay the debt, but also reduce the debt by 500k each year????
The loss is not related to the debt. Repayments of that are made independently of the trading profit or loss.

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Blaster
18-03-2016, 09:25 AM
The loss is not related to the debt. Repayments of that are made independently of the trading profit or loss.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Told you it wasn't my strong point!!

CropleyWasGod
18-03-2016, 09:33 AM
Told you it wasn't my strong point!!

My previous reply was written on the hoof, so apologies if it seemed a bit curt.

In an ideal world, we would make a profit of £500k (ie income less running costs), and use that to pay off the debt. That way, there would be no cash-flow issues. Money in = money out.

Keith_M
18-03-2016, 09:33 AM
I'm glad we've made all this money from our Cup runs as Hearts Fans have it on good authority that we'd have gone into Admin by now without it.

I presume those are the same Yams that claim we were liquidated in the mid 70s, without anybody every knowing about it.

Blaster
18-03-2016, 09:36 AM
My previous reply was written on the hoof, so apologies if it seemed a bit curt.

In an ideal world, we would make a profit of £500k (ie income less running costs), and use that to pay off the debt. That way, there would be no cash-flow issues. Money in = money out.

No it was fine, cheers mate

mjhibby
18-03-2016, 02:02 PM
Good news if rumours are true that we are still running an 800k loss this season.

Leanne confirmed as such but might be more with a reduced parachute payment. May explain why we have a squad of only 22 first team players. We will post a small profit this season I think which is way better than we could have hoped but if we reach the sc final we are looking at 0.5m profit which would help with getting players in in the summer.

CropleyWasGod
18-03-2016, 02:07 PM
Leanne confirmed as such but might be more with parachute payment. May explain why we have a squad of only 22 first team players. We will post a small profit this season I think which is way better than we could have hoped but if we reach the sc final we are looking at 0.5m profit which would help with getting players in in the summer.

Or, if we stay down, retained to help fund next season's increased loss (No Rangers, Hearts or parachute payment).

HSL, though, will help with the player costs.

BTW, I thought the 22 was club policy, no? Two full-timers for each position, and then a back-up of the Development squad.

HibsNibs
18-03-2016, 02:18 PM
Good news if rumours are true that we are still running an 800k loss this season.

If that's the case WTF were we doing wasting ££££ on the pre cup final jolly to Spain ?

mjhibby
18-03-2016, 02:19 PM
Apart from the income from supporters there's prize money.
I don't know how much.

We've earned about £47,000 so far. We will get another £30,000 if we reach final and another £30,000 if we win it. All helps s to pay bills.

CropleyWasGod
18-03-2016, 02:23 PM
If that's the case WTF were we doing wasting ££££ on the pre cup final jolly to Spain ?



The time to judge that is at the end of the season, Shirley. If we get promotion, and another Final, the argument will be that it's money well-spent.

JimBHibees
18-03-2016, 02:28 PM
If that's the case WTF were we doing wasting ££££ on the pre cup final jolly to Spain ?

Because the club support the manager ?

JeMeSouviens
18-03-2016, 02:41 PM
Some out of date info on prize money here:

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php/topic/92284-prize-money/

Interesting that the LC was worth more than the SC in 2008 (because SC money filters further down the pyramid), wonder if it's still like that now?


League Cup figures, the money's paid when the team's put out.

First round losers: �10,500
Second round losers: �14,750
Third Round losers: �24,500
Quarter-Final losers: �38,000
Semi-Final losers: �47,500
Runner up: �82,000
Winner: �110,000

Also, the money from the BBC is:

Televised matches except the final: �95,125 for each club.
Final: �108,750 each.
All clubs receive �6,500, for highlights I presume.

Live matches on the radio get �3,500 each.

stoneyburn hibs
18-03-2016, 02:42 PM
If that's the case WTF were we doing wasting ££££ on the pre cup final jolly to Spain ?

Although we lost the final, that jolly may have helped in just getting across the line against ICT.

JeMeSouviens
18-03-2016, 02:44 PM
Leanne confirmed as such but might be more with parachute payment. May explain why we have a squad of only 22 first team players. We will post a small profit this season I think which is way better than we could have hoped but if we reach the sc final we are looking at 0.5m profit which would help with getting players in in the summer.

You would think that worst case now for next season, we could absorb the same sort of loss as we planned for this season? So assuming similar ST sales, we could have a similar wage bill?

Ringothedog
18-03-2016, 05:08 PM
In the early rounds we probably just about cover costs in cup games, probably the same with our cut from ICT last night .... but on a very wild guess if you presume we average £8 a seat for every fan after costs ( including cup top ups ) every game we have / will play with a crowd over 10,000 if you half the crowd would be roughly.

Aberdeen (LC) ............... 5,546
Dundee Utd (LC) ............ 5,945
Yams (SC) ..................... 8,422
Yams (SC) ..................... 9,716
ICT (SC) ....................... 5,000

LC Semis ....... 1/4 share of 38,830 = 9,707

LC Final ......................................... 19,463

SC Semis ....... 1/4 share of 77,000? = 19,250

Total = 83,049 ..... X £8 = £664,393

Chuck in TV revenue, pies, Bovril, cup final merchandise and we will be close to three quarters of a million quid from our cup runs this season. The whole thing could be wildly inaccurate of course ... but whatever it is, its a hell of a lot more than if we had been pumped out early in both competitions :greengrin

Way too conservative, all costs are deducted before gate receipts are split. The league cup run would net us at least £500k from gate receipts and a further £150k from prize money and tv. The Scottish cup will have earned us £350k clear profit with a further £350k from the semi finals. So far our cup runs will have earned the club a minimum of £1.3m profit.

hibs0666
18-03-2016, 05:49 PM
Way too conservative, all costs are deducted before gate receipts are split. The league cup run would net us at least £500k from gate receipts and a further £150k from prize money and tv. The Scottish cup will have earned us £350k clear profit with a further £350k from the semi finals. So far our cup runs will have earned the club a minimum of £1.3m profit.

Is that before or after you pay the VAT man?

NORTHERNHIBBY
18-03-2016, 08:03 PM
What would be wrong with saying that a ticket for the semi would guarantee a ticket for the final?

marinello59
18-03-2016, 08:04 PM
What would be wrong with saying that a ticket for the semi would guarantee a ticket for the final?

It would be bypassing the loyalty system. It's a shame they can't do that though.

CropleyWasGod
18-03-2016, 08:07 PM
What would be wrong with saying that a ticket for the semi would guarantee a ticket for the final?
What would happen if more people turned up for the semi than our allocation for the final? [emoji6]

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mjhibby
18-03-2016, 08:09 PM
Some out of date info on prize money here:

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php/topic/92284-prize-money/

Interesting that the LC was worth more than the SC in 2008 (because SC money filters further down the pyramid), wonder if it's still like that now?

Didn't realise it was that much. 82 grand for reaching of final. Shows that the cup runs will help the club hugely. Lets just ensure we get promoted.

mjhibby
18-03-2016, 08:11 PM
You would think that worst case now for next season, we could absorb the same sort of loss as we planned for this season? So assuming similar ST sales, we could have a similar wage bill?
That would seem to be logical. Let's just make sure we get promoted so we don't have to look at the likes of Cummings future. That's for another day though.

NAE NOOKIE
18-03-2016, 11:03 PM
Way too conservative, all costs are deducted before gate receipts are split. The league cup run would net us at least £500k from gate receipts and a further £150k from prize money and tv. The Scottish cup will have earned us £350k clear profit with a further £350k from the semi finals. So far our cup runs will have earned the club a minimum of £1.3m profit.

Hope you are right

Since1875Hibs
19-03-2016, 08:50 AM
When talking to a club official, we've lost a lot of money due to CTU.

For example, there are thousands of CTU holders. As the proceeds are pooled, Hibs had to buy each of those seats at face value (£28) and then split the total gate with Hearts.

Multiply this up with the games against Aberdeen, Dundee Utd and Inverness (total Adult costing £88 for those four games?). Hibs have lost out for each CTU holder.

Col2
19-03-2016, 08:54 AM
When talking to a club official, we've lost a lot of money due to CTU.

For example, there are thousands of CTU holders. As the proceeds are pooled, Hibs had to buy each of those seats at face value (£28) and then split the total gate with Hearts.

Multiply this up with the games against Aberdeen, Dundee Utd and Inverness (total Adult costing £88 for those four games?). Hibs have lost out for each CTU holder.

We can't have more than 1500 CTU season ticket holders so given we got 12k for United game and 20k for Hearts I can't see it being a major impact. An impact yes but not material.

NORTHERNHIBBY
19-03-2016, 09:06 AM
What would happen if more people turned up for the semi than our allocation for the final? [emoji6]

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Not likely though, if you summarise and average the figures already guessed at?

CropleyWasGod
19-03-2016, 09:29 AM
Not likely though, if you summarise and average the figures already guessed at?
Agreed, it's unlikely. But if the club use it to increase sales, it's possible.

As a result, the SFA might try to discourage it.

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Ozyhibby
19-03-2016, 09:31 AM
You would think that worst case now for next season, we could absorb the same sort of loss as we planned for this season? So assuming similar ST sales, we could have a similar wage bill?

We can't really absorb any losses as the bank won't lend us any more money and STF is tapped out.
If we are looking like making a loss then players will be sold. Unless of course, people start signing up for HSL in greater numbers.


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Ozyhibby
19-03-2016, 09:33 AM
Agreed, it's unlikely. But if the club use it to increase sales, it's possible.

As a result, the SFA might try to discourage it.

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Loyalty point threads would be back with a vengeance though. [emoji23]
That would make it worth it.


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snooky
19-03-2016, 09:42 AM
Jason Scotland has done us some damage too!

IMO, all the damage in cups has been self inflicted however CT assisted on one occasion.

Jones28
19-03-2016, 10:12 AM
If that's the case WTF were we doing wasting ££££ on the pre cup final jolly to Spain ?

I suppose the management team felt that was the best way to prepare for the game. Have to say I agree, get the players away and get there heads right.

It may or may not have worked but it's definitely not the reason we lost the final!

Jones28
19-03-2016, 10:14 AM
What would be wrong with saying that a ticket for the semi would guarantee a ticket for the final?

Because I, a self confessed PTS at this moment in time would be able to get a ticket over someone who had been to a lot more games. Totally unfair.

Although, has anyone in our recent Hampden history never been able to get a ticket if they'd wanted one?

banchoryhibs
19-03-2016, 11:25 AM
We can't really absorb any losses as the bank won't lend us any more money and STF is tapped out.
If we are looking like making a loss then players will be sold. Unless of course, people start signing up for HSL in greater numbers.


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You've obviously completely missed the fact that we owe a big fat ZERO to any bank and STF is financing a loan that will be fully repaid over the next 8? years - current balance between £4m and £4.5m I think. We carry a cash surplus with the bank and do not have. or wish to have, an overdraft.

if we need temporary additional finance during the year STF's parent company provides this.

I agree totally that signing up for HSL helps our club enormously as does buying shares directly!! We can also buy our season tickets early!

CropleyWasGod
19-03-2016, 11:49 AM
We can't really absorb any losses as the bank won't lend us any more money and STF is tapped out.
If we are looking like making a loss then players will be sold. Unless of course, people start signing up for HSL in greater numbers.


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If we make a profit this year, that will help to fund any loss next year.

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Since1875Hibs
21-03-2016, 06:50 AM
We can't have more than 1500 CTU season ticket holders so given we got 12k for United game and 20k for Hearts I can't see it being a major impact. An impact yes but not material.

Why "can't" we have more? I understand its in the region of 5k as opposed to 1.5k.

JeMeSouviens
21-03-2016, 09:32 AM
We can't really absorb any losses as the bank won't lend us any more money and STF is tapped out.
If we are looking like making a loss then players will be sold. Unless of course, people start signing up for HSL in greater numbers.


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If we budgeted to lose 800K this year but end up breaking even, then surely it must be possible to budget for an 800K loss next season without dipping into any other source of finance?

hibbysam
21-03-2016, 09:32 AM
Why "can't" we have more? I understand its in the region of 5k as opposed to 1.5k.

There is absolutely no chance that out of 7500? Season ticket holders, that 5000 signed up for a cup top up. The 1500-2000 mark seems very reasonable.