The Budget

[johnbc70]

So what are people expecting in today's budget? Looks like the big changes to Pension Tax relief has been scrapped, but probably only for another time.

The government announced a Help to Save scheme where people on low incomes can save cash every month up to maximum of £50 then after 2 years get a 50% bonus on their savings. Will this work?

There is almost always some kind of surprise in the budget as well that nobody expected.

[RyeSloan]

So what are people expecting in today's budget? Looks like the big changes to Pension Tax relief has been scrapped, but probably only for another time. The government announced a Help to Save scheme where people on low incomes can save cash every month up to maximum of £50 then after 2 years get a 50% bonus on their savings. Will this work? There is almost always some kind of surprise in the budget as well that nobody expected.

Probably the same old tinkering and pretending to be 'fixing the roof' while spending and the debt pile continues to rise...followed by claims of Tory austerity and various other noise.

Maybe one day we will see a chancellor actually make an attempt to simplify the tax code and stop fiddling while Rome burns but I doubt it.

Can safely predict Chairman Mao won't make an appearance for Labour this time around though!

[snooky]

Death sentences for anyone earning less than £10,000 p.a. :cb

[Geo_1875]

So what are people expecting in today's budget? Looks like the big changes to Pension Tax relief has been scrapped, but probably only for another time.

The government announced a Help to Save scheme where people on low incomes can save cash every month up to maximum of £50 then after 2 years get a 50% bonus on their savings. Will this work?

There is almost always some kind of surprise in the budget as well that nobody expected.

Savings bonus for people who have very little and manage to spend even less. Strange one that. Will that count as income and affect their benefits?

[stoneyburn hibs]

So what are people expecting in today's budget? Looks like the big changes to Pension Tax relief has been scrapped, but probably only for another time.

The government announced a Help to Save scheme where people on low incomes can save cash every month up to maximum of £50 then after 2 years get a 50% bonus on their savings. Will this work?

There is almost always some kind of surprise in the budget as well that nobody expected.

The help to save scheme is only for those on some form of tax credits.

Cynical, but I see a scenario where Mr Smith from Hull has managed to save the amount to earn the bonus. Mr Smith then receives a letter stating that his tax credits are being cut as he obviously has a surplus to save.

[Onceinawhile]

The help to save scheme is only for those on some form of tax credits.

Cynical, but I see a scenario where Mr Smith from Hull has managed to save the amount to earn the bonus. Mr Smith then receives a letter stating that his tax credits are being cut as he obviously has a surplus to save.

Guaranteed.

Interested to see what he has to say r.e. Personal / capital gains tax.

[Onceinawhile]

A sugar tax being levied on fizzy drinks companies.

Interesting but unlikely to ever be seen.

[Onceinawhile]

No rise on beer,cider or whiskey.

Fuel duty remains the same.

Fags up.

Class 2 nic to go from 2018

[Onceinawhile]

CGT cut to 20% and 10%

I wonder where that will leave entrepreneur's relief?

[CropleyWasGod]

CGT cut to 20% and 10%

I wonder where that will leave entrepreneur's relief?

It will leave it as only being good for higher-rate taxpayers, i would've thought.

The cynic in me says this only benefits the Tory voters.

[CropleyWasGod]

No rise on beer,cider or whiskey.

Fuel duty remains the same.

Fags up.

Class 2 nic to go from 2018

FFS. They've only just changed the payment system.

While they're at it, they should shut down the office that "administers" it. Waste of space. :cb

[stoneyburn hibs]

So what the scrapping of nic class two mean for the self employed ?

[CropleyWasGod]

So what the scrapping of nic class two mean for the self employed ?

A saving of about £150 pa

[snooky]

No rise on beer,cider or whiskey
Fuel duty remains the same.

Fags up.

Class 2 nic to go from 2018

Did he mention Scotch?

[johnbc70]

Lifetime ISAs seem like a good deal.

[Smartie]

Death sentences for anyone earning less than £10,000 p.a. :cb

I suspect that Osbourne might want to wait and see how that works out in America first, after Trump has introduced it.

Give it 3 years.

[Colr]

A sugar tax being levied on fizzy drinks companies.

Interesting but unlikely to ever be seen.

Shares in AG Barr down 4% :rolleyes:

[Alex Trager]

A sugar tax being levied on fizzy drinks companies.

Interesting but unlikely to ever be seen.

Delighted with this.
Finally a result in the right direction IMO

[Onceinawhile]

Shares in AG Barr down 4% :rolleyes:

Recovered to only 2.5% down. Not like as bad as what happened to greggs.

I can't see it happening though. Coca cola / pepsi will put high pressure on.

[Tyler Durden]

"The threshold for 40% tax rate rising to £45k from £42,385 from April 2017 but will only apply in Scotland if adopted by the scottish government".

I'd guess the SNP will increase the threshold but not to the same degree???

[CropleyWasGod]

"The threshold for 40% tax rate rising to £45k from £42,385 from April 2017 but will only apply in Scotland if adopted by the scottish government".

I'd guess the SNP will increase the threshold but not to the same degree???
Will be an interesting conundrum for them. One that will no doubt be discussed a lot in the election campaign.


Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[Beefster]

The 'sugary drinks tax' is a woeful idea that will solve hee-haw other than penalise those that can least afford to be penalised. Still, Jamie Oliver, that well-known poverty champion and nutritional scientist, will be well happy.

[allmodcons]

"The threshold for 40% tax rate rising to £45k from £42,385 from April 2017 but will only apply in Scotland if adopted by the scottish government".

I'd guess the SNP will increase the threshold but not to the same degree???


Will be an interesting conundrum for them. One that will no doubt be discussed a lot in the election campaign.


Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Inflationary increase IMO.

[Smartie]

The sugar tax is an excellent idea that has proven to be successful in other countries.

It's not a silver bullet that will eliminate a problem but it will contribute significantly towards solving it.

I'm 100% behind it.

[Future17]

The 'sugary drinks tax' is a woeful idea that will solve hee-haw other than penalise those that can least afford to be penalised. Still, Jamie Oliver, that well-known poverty champion and nutritional scientist, will be well happy.

I don't know any of the detail of this, but can anyone tell me why this tax has singled out fizzy drinks companies (rather than companies that manufacture sweets for example)?

[steakbake]

Shares in AG Barr down 4% :rolleyes:

Do governments need to make policy in a way that it doesn't affect the stock market or shareholders?

I'm moving into self-employment. One of the things that every single piece of advice I have been given about my business plan has centred on, is the need to keep flexibility in the business to be able to handle changes as things arise. I don't feel sorry for Barrs or Coca Cola or the rest of them - they will remain profitable businesses, it's just they'll need to adapt to the trading circumstances they'll find themselves in, if they wish to continue trading.

[snooky]

Do governments need to make policy in a way that it doesn't affect the stock market or shareholders?

I'm moving into self-employment. One of the things that every single piece of advice I have been given about my business plan has centred on, is the need to keep flexibility in the business to be able to handle changes as things arise. I don't feel sorry for Barrs or Coca Cola or the rest of them - they will remain profitable businesses, it's just they'll need to adapt to the trading circumstances they'll find themselves in, if they wish to continue trading.

If it means Alan Sugar will have to pay more tax, I'm delighted :cb

[CropleyWasGod]

Inflationary increase IMO.

... with a slight adjustment, just to show everyone that they can. :cb

[Beefster]

I don't know any of the detail of this, but can anyone tell me why this tax has singled out fizzy drinks companies (rather than companies that manufacture sweets for example)?

AFAIK there have been specific calls for drinks because they generally don't contain any other nutritional benefits, unlike even a Big Mac. I'd wager that this is just the start though and, now that this particular battle has been won, Jamie Oliver and co will move onto sweets, fast food and anything else that they decide that folk shouldn't be allowed to eat.

[CropleyWasGod]

AFAIK there have been specific calls for drinks because they generally don't contain any other nutritional benefits, unlike even a Big Mac. I'd wager that this is just the start though and, now that this particular battle has been won, Jamie Oliver and co will move onto sweets, fast food and anything else that they decide that folk shouldn't be allowed to eat.

Not sure that the battle has been won yet.

There will be a lot of lobbying by the vested interests in the months to come.

[Beefster]

Not sure that the battle has been won yet.

There will be a lot of lobbying by the vested interests in the months to come.

Both sides of the argument will have been doing that for years. Now that it has been announced, is leading many news reports and Jamie Oliver has been dancing outside Parliament, I can't see there being a u-turn on it.

[CropleyWasGod]

Both sides of the argument will have been doing that for years. Now that it has been announced, is leading many news reports and Jamie Oliver has been dancing outside Parliament, I can't see there being a u-turn on it.

It's only been "proposed" so far. The Finance Bill, like most Acts of Parliament, is subject to change and revision before it becomes law. I think I'm right in saying that there is also a Select Committee to get through. Whilst the Government will be doing their best to whip their own MP's, I'm sure that there will be some Tories who will be influenced by the potential effects on the companies.

[Pete]

Class 2 nic to go from 2018

Nice. I wonder if this means they won't be interested in chasing up backdated payments when 2018 arrives.

My, erm, mate would probably like to know.

[CropleyWasGod]

Nice. I wonder if this means they won't be interested in chasing up backdated payments when 2018 arrives.

My, erm, mate would probably like to know.

The Class 2 NIC office have been appalling for years. I've lost count of the times they've got assessments wrong, have forgotten about some people and have suddenly discovered that other people (like your "mate") haven't paid in years.

For £150 per year for most self-employed earners, they're an inefficiency. I thought that this had been addressed when it was announced that Class 2 would be paid at the same time as Class 4 as of this year; now, I'm wondering why they bothered with that.

Your mate needs to know 2 things:-

1. he'll get a Class 2 bill along with his Class 4 one.

2. Class 4 will increase in 2018 :greengrin

[Pete]

The Class 2 NIC office have been appalling for years. I've lost count of the times they've got assessments wrong, have forgotten about some people and have suddenly discovered that other people (like your "mate") haven't paid in years.

For £150 per year for most self-employed earners, they're an inefficiency. I thought that this had been addressed when it was announced that Class 2 would be paid at the same time as Class 4 as of this year; now, I'm wondering why they bothered with that.

Your mate needs to know 2 things:-

1. he'll get a Class 2 bill along with his Class 4 one.

2. Class 4 will increase in 2018 :greengrin

I don't even think they know my mate exists as he's been self employed for over five years and didn't even know they existed up until fairly recently.

My mate is starting to regret thinking that he didn't need an accountant. :greengrin

[RyeSloan]

The sugar tax is an excellent idea that has proven to be successful in other countries. It's not a silver bullet that will eliminate a problem but it will contribute significantly towards solving it. I'm 100% behind it.

I love the sugar tax...perfect example of government wanting to be seen to be 'doing something' but in reality simply rubbing their hands at a free tax rise. I doubt very much it will significantly contribute to anything in the long run despite the pretendy ring fencing of revenues and the pseudo public health claims.

[ronaldo7]

In answer to the OP.

I didn't expect much in the budget from a Tory who looks after his own. He enriches the top 10% of households whilst he takes £30 a week from the disabled.

Dirty *******s.

[GlesgaeHibby]

I love the sugar tax...perfect example of government wanting to be seen to be 'doing something' but in reality simply rubbing their hands at a free tax rise. I doubt very much it will significantly contribute to anything in the long run despite the pretendy ring fencing of revenues and the pseudo public health claims.

:agree: Pretend to be doing something for the good of health, enjoy a bit more money coming in. If they were seriously concerned about health issues of sugary drinks they'd do a lot more.

[snooky]

:agree: Pretend to be doing something for the good of health, enjoy a bit more money coming in. If they were seriously concerned about health issues of sugary drinks they'd do a lot more.

..... they would be cutting funding for the disabled, etc.

[steakbake]

I love the sugar tax...perfect example of government wanting to be seen to be 'doing something' but in reality simply rubbing their hands at a free tax rise. I doubt very much it will significantly contribute to anything in the long run despite the pretendy ring fencing of revenues and the pseudo public health claims.

I'd like to propose "Dr" Gillian McKeith for the next time the Health Secretary gig comes up... which should be soon, if they had any shame.

Sugar Tax is just smoke and mirrors. Little would suggest it'll do anything though it may promote the cheaper brands. I'd love to see Moray Cup become the national drink ahead of Irn Bru.

[Betty Boop]

Ian Duncan-Smith resigns as minister for work and pensions, citing proposed cuts to disability benefits.

[Schteff]

Did anyone expect anything better from them?! Utter ****, horrible, selfish cretins..

Hopefully we'll get the chance again to rid ourselves of them once & for all...

[ronaldo7]

Ian Duncan-Smith resigns as minister for work and pensions, citing proposed cuts to disability benefits.

Beware the IDS of March.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Ian Duncan-Smith resigns as minister for work and pensions, citing proposed cuts to disability benefits.

When a guy like Duncan-Smith leaves the government because he think welfare cuts are unfair, you know it's bad times for those who need those payments. This will end in another shambolic U-turn, like the proposed Tax Credits cuts. Osborne is pursuing an ideological war against state spending that is too much even for some right wingers in his party.

[Mibbes Aye]

Beware the IDS of March.

:greengrin

[Colr]

When a guy like Duncan-Smith leaves the government because he think welfare cuts are unfair, you know it's bad times for those who need those payments. This will end in another shambolic U-turn, like the proposed Tax Credits cuts. Osborne is pursuing an ideological war against state spending that is too much even for some right wingers in his party.

Sounds like bollocks. The so called cuts where actually rebalancing so deal with inequalities in the system he set up. I suspect that ths has more to do with Personal positioning and Europe that the budget.

[Holmesdale Hibs]

Some of the criticism of the sugar tax is very cynical and without foundation IMO. If the SNP had introduced the same tax there would be people on here calling them visionaries and praising them for taking the initiative in solving the country's obesity problem. The criticism of this is based purely on people's dislike for Osbourne and not the policy itself. Whether the difference is significant or not remains to be seen but it's a step in the right direction and more than any other government has done before. There's enough in the budget to criticise without making up reasons to rubbish the good stuff as well.

[lyonhibs]

Re: the sugar tax, is it just a tax applied at the point of sale - i.e. making sugary drinks marginally more expensive to the private end buyer whilst leaving the production costs/input costs etc of Coca Cola/Barr et al untouched?

If so, it's a crock of *****.

[CropleyWasGod]

Re: the sugar tax, is it just a tax applied at the point of sale - i.e. making sugary drinks marginally more expensive to the private end buyer whilst leaving the production costs/input costs etc of Coca Cola/Barr et al untouched?

If so, it's a crock of *****.

It will be a levy, similar to the duty on fuel or alcohol. The drinks companies will have to make a choice between 1. keeping their sales prices the same, to remain competitive, which will hurt their profitability and 2. increasing the price, which might reduce consumption... again affecting profits.

The Government would probably prefer the second option, if they're serious about reducing sugar intake.

[danhibees1875]

I've thought the idea of implementing a levy/tax on sugary sweets and drinks to be a good one for a couple of years now. It will be interesting to see how/if it is applied in the end and how it develops from there. The only amendment I'd make is to use all the proceeds to subsidise fresh fruit and veg.

A punnet of grapes is £2 - I could buy 10 chocolate bars for that.

[Beefster]

Some of the criticism of the sugar tax is very cynical and without foundation IMO. If the SNP had introduced the same tax there would be people on here calling them visionaries and praising them for taking the initiative in solving the country's obesity problem. The criticism of this is based purely on people's dislike for Osbourne and not the policy itself. Whether the difference is significant or not remains to be seen but it's a step in the right direction and more than any other government has done before. There's enough in the budget to criticise without making up reasons to rubbish the good stuff as well.

I can't speak for other posters but I'm hardly a champion of the SNP. My objection is to the sugar tax, not any specific politician or party. The Pope, the reincarnated Mother Teresa, Olivia Munn and Franck Sauzee could announce it and I'd still think it was a horrendous idea. Why 'sugary drinks' and not pizzas, burgers, steak bakes, hippies etc?

The solutions to obesity and piss-poor diets are a wee bit more nuanced than 'let's just make everything a bit more expensive so that the overweight (or anyone else for that matter) can't afford as much of it'.

[CropleyWasGod]

I can't speak for other posters but I'm hardly a champion of the SNP. My objection is to the sugar tax, not any specific politician or party. The Pope, the reincarnated Mother Teresa, Olivia Munn and Franck Sauzee could announce it and I'd still think it was a horrendous idea. Why 'sugary drinks' and not pizzas, burgers, steak bakes, hippies etc?

The solutions to obesity and piss-poor diets are a wee bit more nuanced than 'let's just make everything a bit more expensive so that the overweight (or anyone else for that matter) can't afford as much of it'.

Those will come, if the sugar tax is a "success". As previously said, I'm not sure it will make it into law.

The Government has a hole in its Budget now that the disability cuts aren't happening. I would be quite happy to tax hippies to the max, or even cull them, if that helps. But, can we leave it until after I've been to Glasto, please?

[steakbake]

I can't speak for other posters but I'm hardly a champion of the SNP. My objection is to the sugar tax, not any specific politician or party. The Pope, the reincarnated Mother Teresa, Olivia Munn and Franck Sauzee could announce it and I'd still think it was a horrendous idea. Why 'sugary drinks' and not pizzas, burgers, steak bakes, hippies etc?

The solutions to obesity and piss-poor diets are a wee bit more nuanced than 'let's just make everything a bit more expensive so that the overweight (or anyone else for that matter) can't afford as much of it'.

I'd like the steakbake to be exempt from tax, especially if accompanied with a rumour.

[Beefster]

Those will come, if the sugar tax is a "success". As previously said, I'm not sure it will make it into law.

The Government has a hole in its Budget now that the disability cuts aren't happening. I would be quite happy to tax hippies to the max, or even cull them, if that helps. But, can we leave it until after I've been to Glasto, please?

I wondered why the surreal turn before I realised my error! My laptop isn't a fan of chippies apparently!

[RyeSloan]

Those will come, if the sugar tax is a "success". As previously said, I'm not sure it will make it into law. The Government has a hole in its Budget now that the disability cuts aren't happening. I would be quite happy to tax hippies to the max, or even cull them, if that helps. But, can we leave it until after I've been to Glasto, please?

And just how can such a thing be measured? Even if sales drop a few percent how would anyone know where that money had gone instead...a healthier option or a cheaper option or maybe just something completely different but just as sugary or 'unhealthy'?

A narrow and specific product being taxed a touch more for a problem as wide ranging as obesity or Britons love of sugar is just plain daft...an eye catching headline and a few quid more in the treasuries pocket is about the sum total of this measure. All in my humble opinion of course!

And as for not liking it just because of who delivered it...

Oh and Glasto doesn't have hippies anymore, have you seen the ticket prices these days! ;-)

[Holmesdale Hibs]

I can't speak for other posters but I'm hardly a champion of the SNP. My objection is to the sugar tax, not any specific politician or party. The Pope, the reincarnated Mother Teresa, Olivia Munn and Franck Sauzee could announce it and I'd still think it was a horrendous idea. Why 'sugary drinks' and not pizzas, burgers, steak bakes, hippies etc?

The solutions to obesity and piss-poor diets are a wee bit more nuanced than 'let's just make everything a bit more expensive so that the overweight (or anyone else for that matter) can't afford as much of it'.

Sure, we should tax other fatty foods as well but it doesn't have to be all or nothing - I guess tax rises on everything at once would be quite disruptive but I'm not an expert. The government needs more tax receipts and less fatties so this tax makes sense. They can use the extra money to help the NHS deal with growing rates of obesity.

Of course it doesn't solve the problem, which is probably unsolvable through tax alone in the same way that taxing cigarettes won't cure cancer, but it's still a small step in the right direction.

[Hibrandenburg]

Sure, we should tax other fatty foods as well but it doesn't have to be all or nothing - I guess tax rises on everything at once would be quite disruptive but I'm not an expert. The government needs more tax receipts and less fatties so this tax makes sense. They can use the extra money to help the NHS deal with growing rates of obesity.

Of course it doesn't solve the problem, which is probably unsolvable through tax alone in the same way that taxing cigarettes won't cure cancer, but it's still a small step in the right direction.

The obesity in our society has its roots in sugar more than fat. In the 60's the trend in marketing moved to fat-free and reduced-fat products. Manufacturers started producing goods without or with very little fat to follow the trend but found their produce wasn't selling because it didn't taste good, so they then replaced the fat with sugar. We know that sugar is addictive and is just as unhealthy as fat if not more so and it's cheaper to produce. Introducing kids to massive amounts of sugar at an early age is madness because it sets our kids on the way to a lifetime sugar addiction and the consequences to health that that entails. A tax on sugary drinks is in my opinion is a step in the right direction, however it's not the complete answer.

[snooky]

Ban all foods except rice.
Ban all drinks except water.
Ban all vehicles.
In fact, ban everything.

We must protect the people from themselves, whatever it takes.

God bless democracy .... and oh, I forgot, ban all religion.

:soapbox:

[Smartie]

The obesity in our society has its roots in sugar more than fat. In the 60's the trend in marketing moved to fat-free and reduced-fat products. Manufacturers started producing goods without or with very little fat to follow the trend but found their produce wasn't selling because it didn't taste good, so they then replaced the fat with sugar. We know that sugar is addictive and is just as unhealthy as fat if not more so and it's cheaper to produce. Introducing kids to massive amounts of sugar at an early age is madness because it sets our kids on the way to a lifetime sugar addiction and the consequences to health that that entails. A tax on sugary drinks is in my opinion is a step in the right direction, however it's not the complete answer.

Education is the biggest thing but changing people's eating habits in an incredibly difficult thing to do.

It can be done but it is not easy.

The money from this tax (as I understand it) is to be put into schools and further health education.

There is a quite brilliant government scheme in Scotland in relation to oral/ dental health called the "Childsmile" initiative. It involves giving dietary advice, fluoride supplements and oral hygiene advice to kids under the age of 6 (and more importantly the parents of the child - they buy the food for the household). This scheme will save the country an absolute fortune in future through preventing dental disease (and other general health issues) that arise from poor diet that can cost the nation fortune to treat at a later date.

If the money from the sugar tax is used in anything like as useful a manner then it will be well worthwhile.

I'm not normally in favour of taxing being used in this way but I am hugely in favour of this one.

There is no silver bullet, there is no magic wand and there is no quick fix. But if you do the right things one at a time eventually you make a difference.

[snooky]

Education is the biggest thing but changing people's eating habits in an incredibly difficult thing to do.

It can be done but it is not easy.

The money from this tax (as I understand it) is to be put into schools and further health education.

There is a quite brilliant government scheme in Scotland in relation to oral/ dental health called the "Childsmile" initiative. It involves giving dietary advice, fluoride supplements and oral hygiene advice to kids under the age of 6 (and more importantly the parents of the child - they buy the food for the household). This scheme will save the country an absolute fortune in future through preventing dental disease (and other general health issues) that arise from poor diet that can cost the nation fortune to treat at a later date.

If the money from the sugar tax is used in anything like as useful a manner then it will be well worthwhile.

I'm not normally in favour of taxing being used in this way but I am hugely in favour of this one.

There is no silver bullet, there is no magic wand and there is no quick fix. But if you do the right things one at a time eventually you make a difference.

I'm glad you mentioned fluoride.
Apparently it was a chemical by-product that US manufacturers couldn't get rid of so they convinced their government it was good for teeth.
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/fluoridegate/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=linkedin&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TopDocumentaryFilms+%28Top+Do cumentary+Films+-+Watch+Free+Documentaries+Online%29&goback=%2Egde_1392357_member_206185664
Don't know the validity of the claims by either side but, if the anti-fluoride side is even partially true ..... :worried:

[Smartie]

I'm glad you mentioned fluoride.
Apparently it was a chemical by-product that US manufacturers couldn't get rid of so they convinced their government it was good for teeth.
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/fluoridegate/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=linkedin&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TopDocumentaryFilms+%28Top+Do cumentary+Films+-+Watch+Free+Documentaries+Online%29&goback=%2Egde_1392357_member_206185664
Don't know the validity of the claims by either side but, if the anti-fluoride side is even partially true ..... :worried:

It's not even partially true, it is scaremongering drivel.

Fluoride is perfectly safe as long as you don't go crazy with it. TBH it's quite difficult to get enough of it into you to cause any harm but there is a real risk there if you do overdo it so it does need to be watched. Technically it IS poisonous so should be treated with care although not with panic.

The fluoride that is provided as part of this scheme is applied a couple of times per year. It's a gel of reasonably high concentration that you most certainly wouldn't want to ingest frequently but at this level of frequency it is perfectly safe.

Whether we like it or not fluoride has been the biggest discovery in terms of preventing dental decay ever. You can almost draw a line down the population pre and post fluoride being discovered and added to toothpaste. Pre 1970s, the "heavy metal" generation have heavily drilled teeth and lots of fillings, post 1970s have far less by way of decay and subsequently fillings.

The idea of putting fluoride in your body after watching films like the one above is not pleasant but fluoride is very successful and very safe. In the right doses.