How did it ever get to this?

[Rasta_Hibs]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3480281/Steps-star-Ian-H-Watkins-father-twins-partner-Craig-Ryder.html

Please change it back to a world where kids have a mummy and a daddy!

Am I the only one who thinks this situation is wrong?

[Beefster]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3480281/Steps-star-Ian-H-Watkins-father-twins-partner-Craig-Ryder.html

Please change it back to a world where kids have a mummy and a daddy!

Am I the only one who thinks this situation is wrong?

Given how many unloved and mistreated kids there are in the world, I don't care about the number, sex or sexuality of a child's parents as long as the child grows up in a loving and safe home.

What's your objection to male or female only parents? Is it a child welfare concern?

[marinello59]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3480281/Steps-star-Ian-H-Watkins-father-twins-partner-Craig-Ryder.html

Please change it back to a world where kids have a mummy and a daddy!

Am I the only one who thinks this situation is wrong?

Predictable.

[easty]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3480281/Steps-star-Ian-H-Watkins-father-twins-partner-Craig-Ryder.html

Please change it back to a world where kids have a mummy and a daddy!

Am I the only one who thinks this situation is wrong?

Unfortunately no, you're not the only one who thinks like this.

What a sad way to live, thinking like you do.

[Rasta_Hibs]

Unfortunately no, you're not the only one who thinks like this.

What a sad way to live, thinking like you do.

Yeah nature is wrong I forgot, Its the most natural thing in the world for there to be a Daddy 1 & Daddy 2 with never a mum in sight.

If they two of them cannot go into a room and produce a baby what gives them the 'right' to be a parent?

[CapitalGreen]

Yeah nature is wrong I Its the most natural thing in the world. Daddy 1 & Daddy 2.

If they two of them cannot go into a room and produce a baby what gives them the 'right' to be a parent?

The laws of the land in which you live have given them the right to be a parent.

[CropleyWasGod]

Yeah nature is wrong I forgot, Its the most natural thing in the world for their to be a Daddy 1 & Daddy 2 with never a mum in sight.

If they two of them cannot go into a room and produce a baby what gives them the 'right' to be a parent?

Love.

[Rasta_Hibs]

Love.

Nothing quite like a mothers love eh!

Sad this kid will never know i.

[CropleyWasGod]

Nothing quite like a mothers love eh!

Sad this kid will never know i.

Love. Full stop.

[easty]

If they two of them cannot go into a room and produce a baby what gives them the 'right' to be a parent?

So by that, nonsense, logic - if a man or woman is medically unable to have kids, then they shouldn't be allowed either? Cos they can't 'go into a room and produce one'.

With your twatty way of thinking, what gives you the 'right' to be a human. You certainly don't have the 'right' to be a hibby as far as I'm concerned.

Admins - launch this fud. He's an embarrassment to Hibs.

[Geo_1875]

OP seems a bit confused. The children do have a mother, she just won't be part of their upbringing. That seems no different to me to a large proportion of "normal" childraising where the father doesn't hang around for the birth.

[Smartie]

Nothing quite like a mothers love eh!

Sad this kid will never know i.

I've only encountered a situation where a child being brought up by 2 men who were together in a civil partnership once.

You are correct in that the kid will never know the mother's love - some might say that is sad.

But the kid has never wanted for the love of 2 parents at any point and has grown up into a decent, well-rounded individual who his parents (irrespective of gender and sexuality) should be immensely proud of.

If only all parents put in the effort that these 2 guys did, the world would be a FAR better place…..

[Rasta_Hibs]

So by that, nonsense, logic - if a man or woman is medically unable to have kids, then they shouldn't be allowed either? Cos they can't 'go into a room and produce one'.

With your twatty way of thinking, what gives you the 'right' to be a human. You certainly don't have the 'right' to be a hibby as far as I'm concerned.

Admins - launch this fud. He's an embarrassment to Hibs.

No need to get yir knickers in a twist about it!

Im asking a question, that's all!

Well I think in a world were over population is a ever growing problem, then this could be the first steps in changing it!

Change this law!

[CropleyWasGod]

No need to get yir knickers in a twist about it!

Im asking a question, that's all!

Well I think in a world were over population is a ever growing problem, then this could be the first steps in changing it!

Change this law!

Would a better means of population control not be sterilising those with unacceptable moral views?

:cb

[easty]

No need to get yir knickers in a twist about it!

Im asking a question, that's all!

Well I think in a world were over population is a ever growing problem, then this could be the first steps in changing it!

Change this law!

It's a ridiculous question.

[Moulin Yarns]

Yeah nature is wrong I forgot, Its the most natural thing in the world for there to be a Daddy 1 & Daddy 2 with never a mum in sight.

If they two of them cannot go into a room and produce a baby what gives them the 'right' to be a parent?


The laws of the land in which you live have given them the right to be a parent.

Of course, Rasta has the choice to move to a country where his values would be appreciated. I suggest Syria :greengrin

[Rasta_Hibs]

Would a better means of population control not be sterilising those with unacceptable moral views?

:cb

Thought police?

I was just shocked when I read the headlines! I thought here we go Elton John Mk2!

Im obviously wrong but I had to read the headline twice and thought how is this even possible! Is it no more down to science than love?

[MyJo]

No need to get yir knickers in a twist about it!

Im asking a question, that's all!

Well I think in a world were over population is a ever growing problem, then this could be the first steps in changing it!

Change this law!

There are millions of children in the world born to "mummy & daddy" who have a miserable life and suffer neglect, abuse and mistreatment at the hands of those who you believe have the "right" to be a parent purely because they can conceive and give birth to them.

If a child is raised in a happy loving family what does it really matter who the parents are. Single parents of either sex, separated co-parenting parents, step-parents, adopted parents or same-sex couples are all equally capable of raising a child, and as long as that child is safe & loved then that is the most important consideration.

[Moulin Yarns]

Bummer!! I was about to reply to a post that just disappeared with a funny quip. Now it is wasted. I blame the Admins :wink:

[marinello59]

Bummer!! I was about to reply to a post that just disappeared with a funny quip. Now it is wasted. I blame the Admins :wink:

Sorry. :greengrin

[Moulin Yarns]

Sorry. :greengrin

Yer awright it might have started a riot (of one) :aok:

[Rasta_Hibs]

I've only encountered a situation where a child being brought up by 2 men who were together in a civil partnership once.

You are correct in that the kid will never know the mother's love - some might say that is sad.

But the kid has never wanted for the love of 2 parents at any point and has grown up into a decent, well-rounded individual who his parents (irrespective of gender and sexuality) should be immensely proud of.

If only all parents put in the effort that these 2 guys did, the world would be a FAR better place…..

Fair play to the two guys! Im not going to knock anyone who cares enough to be a good parent!

I just thought this reeks of celeb designer babies, I want one so therefore I get one!

[Rasta_Hibs]

There are millions of children in the world born to "mummy & daddy" who have a miserable life and suffer neglect, abuse and mistreatment at the hands of those who you believe have the "right" to be a parent purely because they can conceive and give birth to them.

If a child is raised in a happy loving family what does it really matter who the parents are. Single parents of either sex, separated co-parenting parents, step-parents, adopted parents or same-sex couples are all equally capable of raising a child, and as long as that child is safe & loved then that is the most important consideration.

Fair points - Its a new world from what I grew up in that's for sure!

[Moulin Yarns]

Fair play to the two guys! Im not going to knock anyone who cares enough to be a good parent!

I just thought this reeks of celeb designer babies, I want one so therefore I get one!


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3480281/Steps-star-Ian-H-Watkins-father-twins-partner-Craig-Ryder.html

Please change it back to a world where kids have a mummy and a daddy!

Am I the only one who thinks this situation is wrong?

So, which is it to be?
Celeb designer babies or
a world where kids have a mummy and a daddy

A bit of a turn around, wouldn't you say?

[Rasta_Hibs]

So, which is it to be? or

A bit of a turn around, wouldn't you say?

Ideally I would say a mum and dad.

But it is not an ideal world I know. But I think there has been an attack on the 'traditional' family unit so to speak in both the media and by the state!

[bigwheel]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3480281/Steps-star-Ian-H-Watkins-father-twins-partner-Craig-Ryder.html

Please change it back to a world where kids have a mummy and a daddy!

Am I the only one who thinks this situation is wrong?


I think any loving set of parents is a good thing...there are many Mummy and Daddy combos which create a horrible environment for kids to grow up in...as long as its healthy and supportive, good luck to them in their exciting new family additions...

[AndyM_1875]

Fair play to the two guys! Im not going to knock anyone who cares enough to be a good parent!

I just thought this reeks of celeb designer babies, I want one so therefore I get one!

Well I hate to state the obvious but here goes..... my Mrs works for an organization that works with families experiencing difficulties. There are kids she sees who would love to stay with 2 parents who love & support them rather than the chaos they have to endure.

For those kids growing up with two dad's who offer encouragement, support help and love would be like winning the lottery compared with a male/female family where the norm is drugs, neglect, alcoholism, violence, aggression and no parental support through school whatsoever.

[danhibees1875]

I don't know why people have bothered to give him (OP) attention. :yawn:




Congratulations to the new dads. :aok:

[Jay]

Your point seems to have got clouded as the threads gone on. Is it that they are gay or is it because there's no mum that's upsetting you so much?

As someone else pointed out, there is a mum. She is choosing not to be in the children's lives. There's lots of dads out there doing a great job bringing up their kids without the mum around.

I suspect it's more likely to be a bit of homophobia which is really sad in this day and age. Sad for you.

[CapitalGreen]

Your point seems to have got clouded as the threads gone on. Is it that they are gay or is it because there's no mum that's upsetting you so much?

As someone else pointed out, there is a mum. She is choosing not to be in the children's lives. There's lots of dads out there doing a great job bringing up their kids without the mum around.

I suspect it's more likely to be a bit of homophobia which is really sad in this day and age. Sad for you.

It must be difficult to maintain a consistent point when your world view is shaped by bigoted Youtube videos and conspiracy websites.

[Rasta_Hibs]

It must be difficult to maintain a consistent point when your world view is shaped by bigoted Youtube videos and conspiracy websites.

Hence I come on here for a balanced view to my posts!

I enjoy reading all the replies all my threads! I don't really care if people think I am a bigot or homophobe, I like to read all the replies and take from them what I like!

If anything it allows people to shout me down and say their bit!

[Jay]

Hence I come on here for a balanced view to my posts!

I enjoy reading all the replies all my threads! I don't really care if people think I am a bigot or homophobe, I like to read all the replies and take from them what I like!

If anything it allows people to shout me down and say their bit!

So are you?

[Giro Playboy]

If a kid at my school in the early 80s had two gay parents they would have been terrorised. Christ, you would get terrorised for having big ears.
Lets hope in these more enlightened times the kids don't suffer bullying.

[steakbake]

It got to this because the calendar has been steadily and unrelentingly ticking over since time began and it didn't (unfortunately for the Daily Mail) stop in the 1950s.

As others have said, there's so many kids who don't get a great start in life from their biological parents. That's nothing new. I'd far rather people spent time worrying about whether kids had a supportive and safe environment rather than the gender or sexuality of their parents.

These processes of surrogacy, like adoption, are not something you can just sign up to on a whim. All it takes for parenthood to happen otherwise is as we know. For H and his partner, they've almost certainly put a great deal more effort, preparation and thought into their parental responsibilities than many others do.

I'd say this kid has drawn a pretty decent ticket in life's unpredictable lottery. I would wish them well.

[Rasta_Hibs]

So are you?

No I don't think I am either a bigot or a homophobe!

I don't really see the offence I'm causing either!

[Jay]

I don't think your causing offence, if I'm honest I think you posted it for a reaction, not because of your beliefs

Your not homophobic or a bigot but you think that a gay couple having kids is wrong?

Can you explain why you think its wrong? What makes it wrong? What are the possible consequences? I know you've said because they cant lay down and make a baby but that's a cop out. Why shouldn't a gay couple bring up kids? How about gay women?

I'm honestly interested in your opinion.

[Beefster]

I like to read all the replies and take from them what I like!

Any chance you would like to take the question from my post and answer it? Any old idiot can just post something without any justification.

[Rasta_Hibs]

Any chance you would like to take the question from my post and answer it? Any old idiot can just post something without any justification.

No problem Beefster! I'll go back and scan for your question and answer it so you dont feel like an idiot.

[Rasta_Hibs]

I don't think your causing offence, if I'm honest I think you posted it for a reaction, not because of your beliefs

Your not homophobic or a bigot but you think that a gay couple having kids is wrong?

Can you explain why you think its wrong? What makes it wrong? What are the possible consequences? I know you've said because they cant lay down and make a baby but that's a cop out. Why shouldn't a gay couple bring up kids? How about gay women?

I'm honestly interested in your opinion.

I think its wrong at the moment as there has not been enough studies into the efftect on the child from same sex parenting. There has been a study to show there potentially is a problem.

I think it may open the doors to couples having their kids taken off them and given to same sex parents under the guise of child safety - which in itself may be a new set of problems.

Personally i think there should be well documented research into same sex parenting before it becomes the norm for society.

I think there could be a situation where kids are taken from one family (unfairly) and given to same sex couples under the guise of child protection but really its from pressure from gay rights lobby groups.

[Rasta_Hibs]

Given how many unloved and mistreated kids there are in the world, I don't care about the number, sex or sexuality of a child's parents as long as the child grows up in a loving and safe home.

What's your objection to male or female only parents? Is it a child welfare concern?

Refer to above answer i think answers your point. If not let me know!

[Jay]

Wow, I think we need to get away from the nanny state, stop researching stuff and let us get on with it. Nobody should be able to decide if a gay couple should have kids except those involved. A study should never rule someone's life!

I'm overweight, one day people like me won't be allowed to have kids because a study says its detrimental to my kids health. I don't meant adopt kids or foster kids, I mean have my own kids like this family did.

[marinello59]

I think its wrong at the moment as there has not been enough studies into the efftect on the child from same sex parenting. There has been a study to show there potentially is a problem.

I think it may open the doors to couples having their kids taken off them and given to same sex parents under the guise of child safety - which in itself may be a new set of problems.

Personally i think there should be well documented research into same sex parenting before it becomes the norm for society.

I think there could be a situation where kids are taken from one family (unfairly) and given to same sex couples under the guise of child protection but really its from pressure from gay rights lobby groups.

If I had any doubt at all about your prejudices then the last sentence on this post removes it.

[stoneyburn hibs]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3480281/Steps-star-Ian-H-Watkins-father-twins-partner-Craig-Ryder.html

Please change it back to a world where kids have a mummy and a daddy!

Am I the only one who thinks this situation is wrong?


Live and let live. Two parents of any gender providing as decent an upbringing as possible for a child is nothing but good.

[CropleyWasGod]

I think its wrong at the moment as there has not been enough studies into the efftect on the child from same sex parenting. There has been a study to show there potentially is a problem.

I think it may open the doors to couples having their kids taken off them and given to same sex parents under the guise of child safety - which in itself may be a new set of problems.

Personally i think there should be well documented research into same sex parenting before it becomes the norm for society.

I think there could be a situation where kids are taken from one family (unfairly) and given to same sex couples under the guise of child protection but really its from pressure from gay rights lobby groups.
Where is the study to which you refer in your first paragraph?

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[Sir David Gray]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3480281/Steps-star-Ian-H-Watkins-father-twins-partner-Craig-Ryder.html

Please change it back to a world where kids have a mummy and a daddy!

Am I the only one who thinks this situation is wrong?

No, you're not.

[Hibrandenburg]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3480281/Steps-star-Ian-H-Watkins-father-twins-partner-Craig-Ryder.html

Please change it back to a world where kids have a mummy and a daddy!

Am I the only one who thinks this situation is wrong?

God I really hope a story breaks soon about a gay Syrian couple adopting kids just to claim benefits. You'll blow a gasket. Although I'm sure if you trawl your usual online information sources you might actually find that story already.

[Pretty Boy]

Wow. That's all.

It's impossible to debate with someone who really believes there may come a time when the government and social services will wilfully remove a child with hetrosexual parents from a safe environment and place them with a homosexual couple to placate gay rights lobby groups. That's off the scale.

[snooky]

Live and let live. Two parents of any gender providing as decent an upbringing as possible for a child is nothing but good.

That should apply to opinions too surely.
Just sayin'.

[Rasta_Hibs]

Wow. That's all.

It's impossible to debate with someone who really believes there may come a time when the government and social services will wilfully remove a child with hetrosexual parents from a safe environment and place them with a homosexual couple to placate gay rights lobby groups. That's off the scale.

Well id be surprised if heavy pressure is not already being applied to social services.

In another direction but related to the topic. In the US the law makers tried to change birth certificates to no longer show Mother and Father but they had removed it and changed it to Parent 1 and Parent 2. This was to appease gay rights. Maybe not the best choice of phrase to use there but they did try to change the birth cert until mothers and fathers stood up and said no!!!! They have now abandoned that idea, but eventually it will be back on the agenda to get it changed to Parent 1 & Parent 2.

[CropleyWasGod]

Well id be surprised if heavy pressure is not already being applied to social services.

In another direction but related to the topic. In the US the law makers tried to change birth certificates to no longer show Mother and Father but they had removed it and changed it to Parent 1 and Parent 2. This was to appease gay rights. Maybe not the best choice of phrase to use there but they did try to change the birth cert until mothers and fathers stood up and said no!!!! They have now abandoned that idea, but eventually it will be back on the agenda to get it changed to Parent 1 & Parent 2.

Where's your evidence for this?

And, still waiting for the study you mentioned earlier.

[easty]

In another direction but related to the topic. In the US the law makers tried to change birth certificates to no longer show Mother and Father but they had removed it and changed it to Parent 1 and Parent 2. This was to appease gay rights. Maybe not the best choice of phrase to use there but they did try to change the birth cert until mothers and fathers stood up and said no!!!! They have now abandoned that idea, but eventually it will be back on the agenda to get it changed to Parent 1 & Parent 2.

Would you be offended if it said Parent 1 and Parent 2, rather than mother and father? If so, why?

[Pretty Boy]

Well id be surprised if heavy pressure is not already being applied to social services.

In another direction but related to the topic. In the US the law makers tried to change birth certificates to no longer show Mother and Father but they had removed it and changed it to Parent 1 and Parent 2. This was to appease gay rights. Maybe not the best choice of phrase to use there but they did try to change the birth cert until mothers and fathers stood up and said no!!!! They have now abandoned that idea, but eventually it will be back on the agenda to get it changed to Parent 1 & Parent 2.

There are thousands of children pass through the care system every year who require fostering and adoption. A rigorous and sometimes unpleasant process. Why would a child be taken unjustly from a safe environment under any kind of guise when there are already thousands of children in need of loving and stable homes?

[bigwheel]

I think its wrong at the moment as there has not been enough studies into the efftect on the child from same sex parenting. There has been a study to show there potentially is a problem.

I think it may open the doors to couples having their kids taken off them and given to same sex parents under the guise of child safety - which in itself may be a new set of problems.

Personally i think there should be well documented research into same sex parenting before it becomes the norm for society.

I think there could be a situation where kids are taken from one family (unfairly) and given to same sex couples under the guise of child protection but really its from pressure from gay rights lobby groups.


This post lets me know your prejudices, if there was ever a doubt....Parenting is about love, support, development...it is not gender based.

[Rasta_Hibs]

Where's your evidence for this?

And, still waiting for the study you mentioned earlier.

Well you will have to wait a wee bit longer as i have a stir fry to cook but ill get that link for you. Although im sure your capable enough to google it yourself.

[MyJo]

I think its wrong at the moment as there has not been enough studies into the efftect on the child from same sex parenting. There has been a study to show there potentially is a problem.

I think it may open the doors to couples having their kids taken off them and given to same sex parents under the guise of child safety - which in itself may be a new set of problems.

Personally i think there should be well documented research into same sex parenting before it becomes the norm for society.

I think there could be a situation where kids are taken from one family (unfairly) and given to same sex couples under the guise of child protection but really its from pressure from gay rights lobby groups.

http://www.phillysportscentral.com/forums/images/smilies/wtf.gif

[Rasta_Hibs]

This post lets me know your prejudices, if there was ever a doubt....Parenting is about love, support, development...it is not gender based.

No one is ever going to disagree on parenting being about love, support and development.

But i think nothing ever will replace the family unit Mother, Father raising their children.

Anything away from that takes away from the child. That is the case yes they maybe grow up to be well rounded people but the best and ideal situation is for a loving mother and father to be present.

What i fear is happening with gay couple is a case of as they cant produce a child by their own nature then its a bit like ok - order me a child i want to be a father.

Ken its not black and white and im trying to come to sense to it myself. Another point when a kid walks into and see there mum and dad kissing or more and he is shocked, it can be explained as oh mum and daddy were going to make another little baby, this is how you were made. It makes sense.

How do you explain sodomy? Not saying that all gay men bugger each other but you know it def throws a new question into the mix.

[bigwheel]

No one is ever going to disagree on parenting being about love, support and development.

But i think nothing ever will replace the family unit Mother, Father raising their children.

Anything away from that takes away from the child. That is the case yes they maybe grow up to be well rounded people but the best and ideal situation is for a loving mother and father to be present.

What i fear is happening with gay couple is a case of as they cant produce a child by their own nature then its a bit like ok - order me a child i want to be a father.

Ken its not black and white and im trying to come to sense to it myself. Another point when a kid walks into and see there mum and dad kissing or more and he is shocked, it can be explained as oh mum and daddy were going to make another little baby, this is how you were made. It makes sense.

How do you explain sodomy? Not saying that all gay men bugger each other but you know it def throws a new question into the mix.


Because you have a traditional view of "love" and relationships, you don't understand that many people are relaxed about other peoples sexuality. Kids grow up to norms defined in the world they know. I'd rather see a child grow up in a happy , healthy same, or single sex, family, than many of the Mum/Dad relationships that I've witnessed.

Your "order a child" point, is as equally valid for a heterosexual couple who can't conceive..

In all honestly, I think your belief system leads you to be homophobic...and you are finding reasons not to be comfortable with it, rather than considering how positive it could be for a kid as long as the parenting environment is positive.

[marinello59]

No one is ever going to disagree on parenting being about love, support and development.

But i think nothing ever will replace the family unit Mother, Father raising their children.

Anything away from that takes away from the child. That is the case yes they maybe grow up to be well rounded people but the best and ideal situation is for a loving mother and father to be present.

What i fear is happening with gay couple is a case of as they cant produce a child by their own nature then its a bit like ok - order me a child i want to be a father.

Ken its not black and white and im trying to come to sense to it myself. Another point when a kid walks into and see there mum and dad kissing or more and he is shocked, it can be explained as oh mum and daddy were going to make another little baby, this is how you were made. It makes sense.

How do you explain sodomy? Not saying that all gay men bugger each other but you know it def throws a new question into the mix.

Geezus.
I'd stop before you make any more of a show of yourself than you already are.

[marinello59]

Well you will have to wait a wee bit longer as i have a stir fry to cook but ill get that link for you. Although im sure your capable enough to google it yourself.

Will this be like the non-existent evidence you used to back up your anti-Muslim views? You ran away from that one when asked for it as well.

[MyJo]

Because you have a traditional view of "love" and relationships, you don't understand that many people are relaxed about other peoples sexuality. Kids grow up to norms defined in the world they know. I'd rather see a child grow up in a happy , healthy same, or single sex, family, than many of the Mum/Dad relationships that I've witnessed.

Your "order a child" point, is as equally valid for a heterosexual couple who can't conceive..

In all honestly, I think your belief system leads you to be homophobic...and you are finding reasons not to be comfortable with it, rather than considering how positive it could be for a kid as long as the parenting environment is positive.

:agree: My 9 year old daughter understands what being gay means but I haven't felt the need to explain what same sex couples do in the bedroom to her just the same as i haven't explained the ins and outs (pun intended :greengrin) of what mummy and daddy do in the bedroom either.

[Rasta_Hibs]

Will this be like the non-existent evidence you used to back up your anti-Muslim views? You ran away from that one when asked for it as well.

Steady on Mr i am coming back to that thread as stated on it!

And ill supply this one too!

[Benny Brazil]

I think its wrong at the moment as there has not been enough studies into the efftect on the child from same sex parenting. There has been a study to show there potentially is a problem.

I think it may open the doors to couples having their kids taken off them and given to same sex parents under the guise of child safety - which in itself may be a new set of problems.

Personally i think there should be well documented research into same sex parenting before it becomes the norm for society.

I think there could be a situation where kids are taken from one family (unfairly) and given to same sex couples under the guise of child protection but really its from pressure from gay rights lobby groups.

Just reading through this and was about to post to say that some of the earlier replies to you were out of order and that you were entitled to your view - but this is post is just off the scale in stupidity.

[McD]

No one is ever going to disagree on parenting being about love, support and development.

But i think nothing ever will replace the family unit Mother, Father raising their children.

Anything away from that takes away from the child. That is the case yes they maybe grow up to be well rounded people but the best and ideal situation is for a loving mother and father to be present.

What i fear is happening with gay couple is a case of as they cant produce a child by their own nature then its a bit like ok - order me a child i want to be a father.

Ken its not black and white and im trying to come to sense to it myself. Another point when a kid walks into and see there mum and dad kissing or more and he is shocked, it can be explained as oh mum and daddy were going to make another little baby, this is how you were made. It makes sense.

How do you explain sodomy? Not saying that all gay men bugger each other but you know it def throws a new question into the mix.


What about heterosexual couples who can't conceive due to a variety of circumstances? Are they then 'ordering a child'?

As as has been said several times, and you've danced around it, parenting is about providing love, comfort, safety, and upbringing to any child. There's nothing that speaks to 2 men, 2 women, or a man and a woman raising a child/children being any better or worse than any other combination. There are MANY male/female couples who mistreat their children, just as there are MANY male/male and female/female couples who've given their children a fantastic upbringing and early life.

extending your view, a single mother or father is equally not providing the right environment to raise a child, as the child isn't getting a male and female influence?

2 parents kissing need only be explained as them showing their love for each other.

it must be a sad world seen through such a narrow view.

[Rasta_Hibs]

Where's your evidence for this?

And, still waiting for the study you mentioned earlier.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2044491/PC-passport-Goodbye-mother-father-Now-Parent-1-2-appear-form.html

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/08/18/tennessee-courts-replace-mother-and-father-with-parent-1-parent-2.html

Good enough evidence for you??

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2500537

Study granted there is studies that say the opposite.

[Hibrandenburg]

I don't get this "it's not natural" line. What's natural and where do we draw the line as to what's natural and what's not?

[CropleyWasGod]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2044491/PC-passport-Goodbye-mother-father-Now-Parent-1-2-appear-form.html

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/08/18/tennessee-courts-replace-mother-and-father-with-parent-1-parent-2.html

Good enough evidence for you??

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2500537

Study granted there is studies that say the opposite.

I would be more comfortable were the sources not the Daily Mail and Fox News, and were the study not commissioned by The Catholic University of America.

[MyJo]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2044491/PC-passport-Goodbye-mother-father-Now-Parent-1-2-appear-form.html

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/08/18/tennessee-courts-replace-mother-and-father-with-parent-1-parent-2.html

Good enough evidence for you??

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2500537

Study granted there is studies that say the opposite.

Those bastions of truth and impartiality, The Daily Mail, Fox News & Catholics :agree:

Campaigning to have a few government documents altered to reflect that not all familys have a mother & father is a long long way away from a stonewall sponsored childcatcher scooping up all the children from "normal" couples for no reason and giving them to gay couples.

For what its worth i would suggest that the vast majority of same-sex couples would rather have a child born through surrogacy or IVF using thier own "stuff" & a donor than wanting to take someone elses child. Whats more natural than the instinct to reproduce?

[stoneyburn hibs]

That should apply to opinions too surely.
Just sayin'.

Of course, never said otherwise.

[speedy_gonzales]

Whats more natural than the instinct to reproduce?
There's that word 'natural' again. Many believe that same sex relations are not natural, by extension, same sex families with children must not be natural.
Thankfully we live in enlightened times and we are not constrained by the laws and rules of nature. Where couples find it difficult to reproduce then science is there to help, where science fails then we have a society that is compassionate & caring enough to bring together children & parents that are in need of each other.

Whilst you're quite right, that there's nothing more natural than the instinct to reproduce (I think it's every living organisms sole purpose), I think that once we, enlightened beings, successfully become parents then there's nothing comes close to the dedication and sacrifices we will make for our offspring. In some instances, we do fail, and fail badly, but in the main we're pretty decent at raising children and if that means we have evolved to a status where even same sex couples can successfully raise children in a loving, nourishing & safe environment then that's not just testament to the couples themselves but rather society as a whole.
Again, there will always be exceptions, but generally, generally we have taken a massive step forward in what we view as 'normal' or 'natural'.

[Hibrandenburg]

There's that word 'natural' again. Many believe that same sex relations are not natural, by extension, same sex families with children must not be natural.
Thankfully we live in enlightened times and we are not constrained by the laws and rules of nature. Where couples find it difficult to reproduce then science is there to help, where science fails then we have a society that is compassionate & caring enough to bring together children & parents that are in need of each other.

Whilst you're quite right, that there's nothing more natural than the instinct to reproduce (I think it's every living organisms sole purpose), I think that once we, enlightened beings, successfully become parents then there's nothing comes close to the dedication and sacrifices we will make for our offspring. In some instances, we do fail, and fail badly, but in the main we're pretty decent at raising children and if that means we have evolved to a status where even same sex couples can successfully raise children in a loving, nourishing & safe environment then that's not just testament to the couples themselves but rather society as a whole.
Again, there will always be exceptions, but generally, generally we have taken a massive step forward in what we view as 'normal' or 'natural'.

Amen!

It's natural for human beings and other mammals to reject that what is not beneficial to the species. Thank god we've evolved further than that. Or should we leave those with disabilities to their fate, should we also keep all our resources to support the strong and reject the weak, should the physically strongest males have sole dibs on reproduction and should women be restricted to nest building and child raising? Thank dog the majority of us have evolved beyond that what's "natural", it's been slow progress but this thread gives me hope that the majority is willing to stand up and defend that progress against the few neanderthals who would like to drag us back into their caves.

[AndyM_1875]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2044491/PC-passport-Goodbye-mother-father-Now-Parent-1-2-appear-form.html

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/08/18/tennessee-courts-replace-mother-and-father-with-parent-1-parent-2.html

Good enough evidence for you??

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2500537

Study granted there is studies that say the opposite.

If that's your sources, I'd start again.....

[Holmesdale Hibs]

If a kid at my school in the early 80s had two gay parents they would have been terrorised. Christ, you would get terrorised for having big ears.
Lets hope in these more enlightened times the kids don't suffer bullying.

Agree with this, although I also hope things have improved.

I actually think if you take some of what Rasta Hibs is saying and divide it by 10 then there are elements of truth there. If same sex adoption is going to become standard, it does make sense to research whether it's in the child's best interest. And by that I mean 'proper' research rather than something aired by Fox or funded by the Catholic Church.

I personally have no issue with the concept, but if someone showed me reasonable evidence that it was not in the child's interest then I'd be against doing it in practice. Times are changing, which is good, but they're changing slowly and at different rates all over the country, and the same rules must apply everywhere and to everyone. Putting same sex adoption in to practice will undoubtedly help change attitudes for the better (IMO) but I'd prefer to understand more about whether it's good for the child before using it as a sort of Guinea pig.

[Scouse Hibee]

Interesting thread, I personally know two different same sex (female) couples who have children, one couple has twins so no Daddy on the scene for any of those children. Look to me like two fantastic sets of parents lovingly bringing up their children, a picture of happiness and great to see.

[21.05.2016]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3480281/Steps-star-Ian-H-Watkins-father-twins-partner-Craig-Ryder.html

Please change it back to a world where kids have a mummy and a daddy!

Am I the only one who thinks this situation is wrong?

What a ridiculous thing to think. These are two loving parents who will give this child a happy home to grow up in, why should it matter what gender the parents are? As long as the child is loved, well looked after and brought up with good people then it doesn't matter IMO.

When your ready come join us in the 21st centuary.

[lEXO]

I know a lesbian couple who are trying for a kid. 2 stints of IVF so far and a lot of cash. It hasn't worked. They are desperate for a kid. They are a lovel go toy couple, work hard and will be great parents. They are upset it hasnt happened yet and it is hard to see them like this. They are the same as many couples who have to go through the same agony. Their child will be loved, cared for and given every opportunity it can acheive in life. The same cannot be said for all parents. Any bam can have a kid. Good parents dont have to be mum and dad......

[Pete]

Agree with this, although I also hope things have improved.

I actually think if you take some of what Rasta Hibs is saying and divide it by 10 then there are elements of truth there. If same sex adoption is going to become standard, it does make sense to research whether it's in the child's best interest. And by that I mean 'proper' research rather than something aired by Fox or funded by the Catholic Church.

I personally have no issue with the concept, but if someone showed me reasonable evidence that it was not in the child's interest then I'd be against doing it in practice. Times are changing, which is good, but they're changing slowly and at different rates all over the country, and the same rules must apply everywhere and to everyone. Putting same sex adoption in to practice will undoubtedly help change attitudes for the better (IMO) but I'd prefer to understand more about whether it's good for the child before using it as a sort of Guinea pig.

If anyone is asking if it's in the child's best interests then maybe they should explain these dangers and worst case scenarios which are specific to same sex couples.

[Hibrandenburg]

I know a lesbian couple who are trying for a kid. 2 stints of IVF so far and a lot of cash. It hasn't worked. They are desperate for a kid. They are a lovel go toy couple, work hard and will be great parents. They are upset it hasnt happened yet and it is hard to see them like this. They are the same as many couples who have to go through the same agony. Their child will be loved, cared for and given every opportunity it can acheive in life. The same cannot be said for all parents. Any bam can have a kid. Good parents dont have to be mum and dad......

Whilst I agree with all you say, the dirty minded wee child in me did have a chuckle at the thought of what a "lesbian lovel go toy couple" could actually be.

[McD]

I know a lesbian couple who are trying for a kid. 2 stints of IVF so far and a lot of cash. It hasn't worked. They are desperate for a kid. They are a lovel go toy couple, work hard and will be great parents. They are upset it hasnt happened yet and it is hard to see them like this. They are the same as many couples who have to go through the same agony. Their child will be loved, cared for and given every opportunity it can acheive in life. The same cannot be said for all parents. Any bam can have a kid. Good parents dont have to be mum and dad......


:top marks

[Holmesdale Hibs]

If anyone is asking if it's in the child's best interests then maybe they should explain these dangers and worst case scenarios which are specific to same sex couples.

I don't know the dangers, I'm far from an expert. I'd guess the same applies to most people on here.

Might be there are no dangers, which would be the best scenario. Or it might be that children would be more prone to bullying at school or struggle with the psychology of having 2 same sex parents. As per the post I originally quoted, I'd have gotten a well hard time at school if I had same sex parents. Yes, it wouldn't be the parents fault but it would have made my childhood a lot more difficult. Maybe things have improved, I hope so.

Like I said, I'm not against the idea, but I'm also willing to accept that my knowledge on the subject is limited and just assuming it will be fine without considering potential downside seems a bit negligent.

[HibsMax]

Scientifically speaking, you are correct. Two people of the same gender cannot have children naturally (in the sense that they cannot themselves procreate).

But that doesn't mean that two people of the same gender cannot be terrific parents. There are plenty of "natural" parents out there who are not fit to be parents, but because they have the bits that fit together, it's OK?

I think you're being very narrow-minded if you honestly think that a couple's ability to raise a child is determined by their gender.

[Scouse Hibee]

I don't know the dangers, I'm far from an expert. I'd guess the same applies to most people on here.

Might be there are no dangers, which would be the best scenario. Or it might be that children would be more prone to bullying at school or struggle with the psychology of having 2 same sex parents. As per the post I originally quoted, I'd have gotten a well hard time at school if I had same sex parents. Yes, it wouldn't be the parents fault but it would have made my childhood a lot more difficult. Maybe things have improved, I hope so.

Like I said, I'm not against the idea, but I'm also willing to accept that my knowledge on the subject is limited and just assuming it will be fine without considering potential downside seems a bit negligent.

Of course there will be opposition,name calling and other things, being gay is still not fully accepted so having same sex parents won't be missed.

[Colr]

Given how many unloved and mistreated kids there are in the world, I don't care about the number, sex or sexuality of a child's parents as long as the child grows up in a loving and safe home.

?

Yup

[The Green Goblin]

Well id be surprised if heavy pressure is not already being applied to social services.

In another direction but related to the topic. In the US the law makers tried to change birth certificates to no longer show Mother and Father but they had removed it and changed it to Parent 1 and Parent 2. This was to appease gay rights. Maybe not the best choice of phrase to use there but they did try to change the birth cert until mothers and fathers stood up and said no!!!! They have now abandoned that idea, but eventually it will be back on the agenda to get it changed to Parent 1 & Parent 2.

Can I call you "Poster 1"?

[Rasta_Hibs]

Can I call you "Poster 1"?

No!

[Moulin Yarns]

No!

How about 'The Donald'?

[Rasta_Hibs]

How about 'The Donald'?

Hows about you admit why yir Fleece is Golden!!?

[Moulin Yarns]

Hows about you admit why yir Fleece is Golden!!?

Dyed in the wool!?

[Moulin Yarns]

No!

Rasta Trump has a certain ring to it.

[Moulin Yarns]

Hows about you admit why yir Fleece is Golden!!?

How's about you actually answer a question you are asked, for once!!?

[Rasta_Hibs]

How's about you actually answer a question you are asked, for once!!?

Which one there are so many?

[Moulin Yarns]

Which one there are so many?

You choose. There have been so many that you have ignored on the various threads that you have started, Donald :wink:.

[Rasta_Hibs]

You choose. There have been so many that you have ignored on the various threads that you have started, Donald :wink:.



Ill review them in time. My wifi is crap at home just now, thinking of upgrading to BT Hub.

Edit: post edited, cut out the personal stuff

[Moulin Yarns]

Ill review them in time. My wifi is crap at home just now, thinking of upgrading to BT Hub.

Nice!! What's the need for the personal insult?

You have started a number of threads on this forum which have prompted decent debate, but when anyone has questioned you, or asked you to back up your, at times, outspoken views, you have always ducked out of the debates. Now you resort to personal insults for no reason.

Who do you blame for this? http://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/13/world/ankara-park-blast/ Mass migration? Muslims? North Africans?

[Rasta_Hibs]

Nice!! What's the need for the personal insult?

You have started a number of threads on this forum which have prompted decent debate, but when anyone has questioned you, or asked you to back up your, at times, outspoken views, you have always ducked out of the debates. Now you resort to personal insults for no reason.

Who do you blame for this? http://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/13/world/ankara-park-blast/ Mass migration? Muslims? North Africans?

Ok fair enough but I didn't think it was personal really!