Hearts and sectarianism

[Malongoals]

Not using this as point scoring in any shape or form, merely interested for your opinions on the matter.

Below is a photo from yesterday of a couple of Hearts fans up at Dundee. Celebrating Britishness next to a Nazi salute has always baffled me...

Anyway the reason I was posting was as a slightly younger fan, I was interested to see if people feel their relation to sectarian behaviour has increased or decreased over the last few decades? Interested for your thoughts

[Malongoals]

https://www.facebook.com/302439376632606/photos/a.302994696577074.1073741827.302439376632606/435920686617807/?type=3&theater

(Can't work out how to post a photo, apologies for the link)

[FromTheCapital]

3 little tramps. That is all.
Combined age of about 28.


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[Hibby70]

That boy in the middle has lost all of his dignity as well as his teeth.

[superfurryhibby]

We have our own Union Flag, extended arm saluting weirdos. Funny, I questioned it on social media, was challenged and looked at the boys posts. Funnily enough he was a fan of EDL and was asking me if the could'nt be Scottish and British. Eh, aye whatever.

[wookie70]

I started watching Hibs 40 years ago and there is no doubt the level of sectarianism has fallen dramatically over the years as has racism and homophobia. Hibs fans have done better than most. Unfortunately, most clubs have there ********s and the ugly sisters have stand fulls of them. Even Hearts didnt belt out Billy boys on Tuesday for the first time in a long time.

[Malongoals]

I started watching Hibs 40 years ago and there is no doubt the level of sectarianism has fallen dramatically over the years as has racism and homophobia. Hibs fans have done better than most. Unfortunately, most clubs have there ********s and the ugly sisters have stand fulls of them. Even Hearts didnt belt out Billy boys on Tuesday for the first time in a long time.

That's what made me think to bring it up, it was the first derby I could remember in years where that wasn't sung, even by a minority

[iwasthere1972]

https://www.facebook.com/302439376632606/photos/a.302994696577074.1073741827.302439376632606/435920686617807/?type=3&theater

(Can't work out how to post a photo, apologies for the link)

I'd be more concerned if I was a wee Jambo laddie on the left as it looks like his Jambo sister has also travelled up to Dundee with their bairn looking to get the child maintenance that he owes.

I would arrest them all anyway just for being Jambos.

[Hibernia&Alba]

The vast majority of the Hearts fans I know are good folk who support their team. They've always had minority of bigoted clowns who mimic The Rangers, but they seem to be on the decline, in line with prejudice in most areas of society. Obviously, it isn't something that can be eradicated overnight, but Scotland (The Rangers excepted) is a more tolerant place than it was even a generation ago. We're a multicultural society, and the vast majority recognise this; indeed, most welcome it. I wouldn't take the daftie kids in that picture to be a fair representation of the wider Hearts support. More than ever, the rivalry between the Edinburgh teams is purely football based, largely free from the religious and political intolerance of Glasgow.

[cabbageandribs1875]

that oddball yin in the middle looks like he's straight out of the set of the film Deliverance, what an odd looking creature

[Greencore]

They will argue it's the red hand of Ulster.

Glad our club remember our roots but don't celebrate stupid politics.

[LithgaeHibby]

That's what made me think to bring it up, it was the first derby I could remember in years where that wasn't sung, even by a minority

The only reason they didn't sing that was because they were singing hee haw for 90 mins due to getting humped by the Cabbage.

[Carheenlea]

Whilst they are just three kids who will hopefully grow out of that kind of posturing, the facts are that they will probably grow up to be the obnoxious total pain in ***** like the vast majority of Hearts fans are. With some mild sectarianism thrown in for good measure.

[mjhibby]

I'd love to think that they will refrain from singing their bile but as has been said thatsbeen more to do with them realising they ain't very good and we are a damn tough team right now. Most hertz fans I just find annoying and find it futile to have a conversation about football. The sad thing was only 2 years ago that there was 2 thousand of them singing the Billy boys. I'm sure Queen budge would like to get rid of the hardcore bigots but will happily take their money. I'm immensely proud to support a club where any ism is unacceptable and it's up to other clubs to follow suit. Unfortunately as Scottish football is driven by the bigot Bros and their charming rivalry it's unlikely that we will be rid of it in many a generation.

[Simkin911]

I could use a few words but pathetic is probably sufficient.

[Thecat23]

Tramps who are still living in the past while watching Football Factory on a sat morning to get them going.

[Pretty Boy]

Where did they get the flag? Poundland? It's not even close to the correct colour.

[lucky]

I drink in a pub that's full of them and I reckon only one is sectarian. The rest would be offend as we are with Nazi salutes, I think if their parents saw this photo they'd slap the little ****s senseless. Surely you can support your club without that crap. 30 years ago republican songs were sung by Hibs fans but they were stamped out by the fans. I have never heard Hibs fans sing racist or homophobic songs but there is no doubt we have some supporters who are right wing

[malcolm]

I'd love to think that they will refrain from singing their bile but as has been said thatsbeen more to do with them realising they ain't very good and we are a damn tough team right now. Most hertz fans I just find annoying and find it futile to have a conversation about football. The sad thing was only 2 years ago that there was 2 thousand of them singing the Billy boys. I'm sure Queen budge would like to get rid of the hardcore bigots but will happily take their money. I'm immensely proud to support a club where any ism is unacceptable and it's up to other clubs to follow suit. Unfortunately as Scottish football is driven by the bigot Bros and their charming rivalry it's unlikely that we will be rid of it in many a generation.

I'd be devastated if we did not support our forwards' opportunism in and around the box :wink:

[Danderhall Hibs]

The only reason they didn't sing that was because they were singing hee haw for 90 mins due to getting humped by the Cabbage.

Exactly what I was going to say. They lost Tuesday's game in the last 10 mins at Tiny so were on a downer.

[Holmesdale Hibs]

I started watching Hibs 40 years ago and there is no doubt the level of sectarianism has fallen dramatically over the years as has racism and homophobia. Hibs fans have done better than most. Unfortunately, most clubs have there ********s and the ugly sisters have stand fulls of them. Even Hearts didnt belt out Billy boys on Tuesday for the first time in a long time.

Agree with this. Hearts fans are as against sectarianism as we are.

Whether it's falling amongst old firm supports is another question.

[Hibrandenburg]

Where did they get the flag? Poundland? It's not even close to the correct colour.

Everything they touch turns to pink like some sissy version of King Midas.

[Ozyhibby]

Hearts can at least say it's a genuine small minority among their support.
I'm pleased to say it's almost non existent at Hibs now.
The page appears to be taken down so can't see the photo.


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[Ozyhibby]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160221/07b84cafbd1f6b5a72e3b2086eb7b0c6.jpg
Found it.


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[erin go bragh]

Hearts can at least say it's a genuine small minority among their support.
I'm pleased to say it's almost non existent at Hibs now.
The page appears to be taken down so can't see the photo.


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It wasn't a small minority singing about Tony Mowbrays dead wife or Dean Sheils one eye . Huns without the bus fares when dead Rangers were winning everything . Now there just diet Huns .

GGTTH

[ManBearPig]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160221/07b84cafbd1f6b5a72e3b2086eb7b0c6.jpg
Found it.



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It's like three wee boys tried to dress up like casuals from the 80s for Halloween

[emerald green]

Agree with this. Hearts fans are as against sectarianism as we are.

Not all of them it would seem.

Look up Heart of Midlothian Flute Band, and their hangers on.

[marinello59]

Not all of them it would seem.

Look up Heart of Midlothian Flute Band, and their hangers on.

I'm not so sure that crowd has got any connection to the fitba club at all.

[Stax]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160221/07b84cafbd1f6b5a72e3b2086eb7b0c6.jpg
Found it.


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That is quite possibly the worst attempt at casual attire I have ever seen...

[CentreLine]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160221/07b84cafbd1f6b5a72e3b2086eb7b0c6.jpg
Found it.


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Why do you think the guy in the middle has a glove puppet?

[emerald green]

I'm not so sure that crowd has got any connection to the fitba club at all.

The name of the band comes from the Heart of Midlothian stones outside St Giles Cathedral on The Royal Mile. There is no direct connection between the band and Heart of Midlothian FC I agree.

What I'm not convinced about is that none of the band members support the football club. As far as I've been led to believe, the flute band has a mixture of The Rangers and Hearts supporters.

[Colr]

Not using this as point scoring in any shape or form, merely interested for your opinions on the matter.

Below is a photo from yesterday of a couple of Hearts fans up at Dundee. Celebrating Britishness next to a Nazi salute has always baffled me...

Anyway the reason I was posting was as a slightly younger fan, I was interested to see if people feel their relation to sectarian behaviour has increased or decreased over the last few decades? Interested for your thoughts
Not reflective of the club or the average Jambo. A few thick idiots and we all have a small numbers of them ( except the OF who have tens of thousands).

[bigwheel]

anyone who walks past Middletons on a derby day, will have likely heard their songs of religious hate being belted out. It's not only 3 or 4 youths that's for sure....I think there is a reasonable sized section of their support who are minded towards this hateful nonsense...

[Alfred E Newman]

I think the Hearts sectarianism thing is blown out of proportion. They probably have no more bigots than we have. For example, I know one Hearts supporter who is Catholic yet is a stereotypical Jambo when it comes to discussing football.

[bigwheel]

I think the Hearts sectarianism thing is blown out of proportion. They probably have no more bigots than we have. For example, I know one Hearts supporter who is Catholic yet is a stereotypical Jambo when it comes to discussing football.


I've never heard one anti-protestant chant at a Hibs game, or related event, and never heard any "republican" related chants since very early 80s....Have you? I've heard and seen many anti-catholic comments from so called Hearts fans..

[andyf5]

I think the Hearts sectarianism thing is blown out of proportion. They probably have no more bigots than we have. For example, I know one Hearts supporter who is Catholic yet is a stereotypical Jambo when it comes to discussing football.

The leaders of "Protestant Action" in the 1930's were Hibs supporters and sold their paper outside Tynecastle according to the book by Tom Gallagher. I've never thought of either team being sectarian and the fans of both being from a cross section of Edinburgh people.

[jdships]

I'm not so sure that crowd has got any connection to the fitba club at all.

I have two " friends" whose sons are " Gorgie Loyals" are season Ticket holders at Tynie and are very active in a supporters club , travelling to most away games !!

[Glorious St Pat]

anyone who walks past Middletons on a derby day, will have likely heard their songs of religious hate being belted out. It's not only 3 or 4 youths that's for sure....I think there is a reasonable sized section of their support who are minded towards this hateful nonsense...

Correct - see some chat from some Yams on Tuesday there:

[Bostonhibby]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160221/07b84cafbd1f6b5a72e3b2086eb7b0c6.jpg
Found it.


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Well, its the flower pot men on the right and in the middle, so I Guess the schoolboy on the left must be little weed.

I never have a good word to say about the yam but I think they have their wannabe hun element but its a small percentage, I think they have sectarians who support them but I no longer regard them as a sectarian club in the same way the uglies are.

The tipping point comes when the majority of your fans stop being proud of spouting the bile and start doing something about the ones that are. The Ugly sisters are centuries away from that.

[Glorious St Pat]

I've never heard one anti-protestant chant at a Hibs game, or related event, and never heard any "republican" related chants since very early 80s....Have you? I've heard and seen many anti-catholic comments from so called Hearts fans..

Well there is still the isolated 'orange' and 'Masonic' shout from some if our support - heard it for years. Not heard any Republican songs since the 80's although have heard some try and start Soldiers Song in the old East.

[21.05.2016]

That's what made me think to bring it up, it was the first derby I could remember in years where that wasn't sung, even by a minority

In fairness, they didn't sing anything! Could have heard a pin drop in their end all game.

[Torto7062]

Correct - see some chat from some Yams on Tuesday there:
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160221/38789dd4cce6ca7e2b61a7a44856a5ba.jpg

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[Keith_M]

That is quite possibly the worst attempt at casual attire I have ever seen...


:agree:


That's surely a deliberate satire of the Casual culture.

[21.05.2016]

Embarrassing behaviour especially from fans who support a club that takes great pride in it's war effort.

Theres a very very dark element in their support.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

A quick visit to any boozer in the vicinity on Tynecastle (with the poss exception of The Diggers) pre/post match will tell you all you need to know about them.

[Pretty Boy]

:agree:


That's surely a deliberate satire of the Casual culture.

Just another symptom of the erosion of any kind of originality in youth culture. What kind of young lad gets his kicks out of dressing up like guys who are probably receiving correspondence from Saga holidays.

Without wishing to glorify the casual movement. It was a reaction to a frustration of amongst youths at the time. A desire to look smarter, be more organised and be bigger and better than the gang culture that had preceded them.

I don't agree with Bradley Welsh on much but he was spot on in what he said last week. These idiots aren't casuals, they are young lads dressing up and copying behaviour they have seen in Football Factory and Green Street and so on. Mindless, unoriginal and boring

[21.05.2016]

Just another symptom of the erosion of any kind of originality in youth culture. What kind of young lad gets his kicks out of dressing up like guys who are probably receiving correspondence from Saga holidays.

Without wishing to glorify the casual movement. It was a reaction to a frustration of amongst youths at the time. A desire to look smarter, be more organised and be bigger and better than the gang culture that had preceded them.

I don't agree with Bradley Welsh on much but he was spot on in what he said last week. These idiots aren't casuals, they are young lads dressing up and copying behaviour they have seen in Football Factory and Green Street and so on. Mindless, unoriginal and boring

Spot on. The "casuals" you see now a days are normally just weedy little boys who couldn't fight their way out a paper bag but think wearing a stone island jumper and having a **** hair cut makes them hard. Cringe doesn't even begin to cover it.

[Keith_M]

Just another symptom of the erosion of any kind of originality in youth culture. What kind of young lad gets his kicks out of dressing up like guys who are probably receiving correspondence from Saga holidays.

Without wishing to glorify the casual movement. It was a reaction to a frustration of amongst youths at the time. A desire to look smarter, be more organised and be bigger and better than the gang culture that had preceded them.

I don't agree with Bradley Welsh on much but he was spot on in what he said last week. These idiots aren't casuals, they are young lads dressing up and copying behaviour they have seen in Football Factory and Green Street and so on. Mindless, unoriginal and boring


I know, I was there, circa 1985.

Although I'll need to check with the Postie as my Saga Brochures haven't arrived for a while :wink:

[CraigHibee]

A lot of hearts fans I know are completely against the sectarian stuff, although I will give you a laugh.

Some hearts supporting fanny at my work was trying his brand of "banter" before the 1st game against them, said i needed my "rosemary beads" for the game. I asked the fud if he was intending on cooking dinner, complete cock! Plus I pointed out I wasn't Catholic and asked him how much of a twat he actually felt, he said nothing

He clearly has a bit of that "disease" in him but couldn't even get it right, twat!

[CentreLine]

A lot of hearts fans I know are completely against the sectarian stuff, although I will give you a laugh.

Some hearts supporting fanny at my work was trying his brand of "banter" before the 1st game against them, said i needed my "rosemary beads" for the game. I asked the fud if he was intending on cooking dinner, complete cock! Plus I pointed out I wasn't Catholic and asked him how much of a twat he actually felt, he said nothing

He clearly has a bit of that "disease" in him but couldn't even get it right, twat!

C'mon. Has nobody else spotted the ventriloquist's dummy on the left hand of the dafty in the middle. Or maybe it's him that's the dummy being worked by the very small bloke?

[The_Horde]

Kevin and Perry go to Gorgie.

[SuperAllyMcleod]

I don't agree with Bradley Welsh on much but he was spot on in what he said last week.

The guy from The Chase?

[ancient hibee]

In my teens there were visits quite close together by both members of the OF and I had the pleasure of being called a fenian b*****d one time and an orange b*****d by the other ****.These were the days of course when journalists loved to call them "the most knowledgeable fans in football".

[Mr White]

In my teens there were visits quite close together by both members of the OF and I had the pleasure of being called a fenian b*****d one time and an orange b*****d by the other ****.These were the days of course when journalists loved to call them "the most knowledgeable fans in football".

Aye those specimens you see on bothwell st, edina place and rossie place prior to celtc or sevco games at easter road reek of knowledge right enough :drunk:

[givescotlandfreedom]

I know a fair few and with some of them I don't think you have to scratch far beyond the surface to find the bigotry.

[Kato]

The leaders of "Protestant Action" in the 1930's were Hibs supporters


Waffle, the leaders of PA were one guy who was a lunatic and several Morningside Maiden Aunts (who financed their bile). I'd like to see proof that any of them were Hibs fans.

[andyf5]

Waffle, the leaders of PA were one guy who was a lunatic and several Morningside Maiden Aunts (who financed their bile). I'd like to see proof that any of them were Hibs fans.
Book "Edinburgh Divided" by Tom Gallagher page 117 line 8. The book is about John Cormack who campaigned in Leith and was a councillor there.

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[andyf5]

Waffle, the leaders of PA were one guy who was a lunatic and several Morningside Maiden Aunts (who financed their bile). I'd like to see proof that any of them were Hibs fans.

Also found this has been discussed here in more detail http://www.hibs.net/archive/index.php/t-114926.html

"Book says that there were PA supporters in Leith and who were hibbies. And that one of the reasons Willie McCartney , one of our most succesful managers , defected from Hertz to Hibs was because he objected to PA being allowed to sell its papers outside Swynie."

[emerald green]

Also found this has been discussed here in more detail http://www.hibs.net/archive/index.php/t-114926.html

"Book says that there were PA supporters in Leith and who were hibbies. And that one of the reasons Willie McCartney , one of our most succesful managers , defected from Hertz to Hibs was because he objected to PA being allowed to sell its papers outside Swynie."

Your earlier post #36 says "the leaders of PA in the 1930s were Hibs supporters". Presumably the book you refer to doesn't name these "Hibs supporters"? Who were they? Does it say? If they were "leaders" of PA surely that would be clear in the book, would it not?

It's the first I've ever heard of it, and remember older family members (one or two who were Hearts minded), who were around at the time, talking about PA and never did any of them ever even hint that was the case.

Also, if one of the reasons Willie McCartney left Hearts for Hibs was because of his objection to PA selling its stuff outside Tynecastle, why would he have done that if the "leaders" of PA were Hibs supporters? :confused:

[brog]

Cormack was on the council for about 20 years & I have a vague memory of my Dad having regular run ins with him. I also remember Cormack speaking at The Mound every Sunday, into the 60's IIRC. He was first elected at a time when fascism was fashionable & he became a popular & hardworking local councillor, not for but almost in spite of his politics. With the support he received in Leith it would be reasonable to think some of his followers were also Hibs fans but the story re them selling stuff outside PBS sounds contrived to me. Certainly by the time I first encountered Cormack in the 60's his ship had sailed & his speeches were mostly just anti Catholic rants & pretty much completely opposite to the values of my fellow Hibs fans.

[andyf5]

Cormack was on the council for about 20 years & I have a vague memory of my Dad having regular run ins with him. I also remember Cormack speaking at The Mound every Sunday, into the 60's IIRC. He was first elected at a time when fascism was fashionable & he became a popular & hardworking local councillor, not for but almost in spite of his politics. With the support he received in Leith it would be reasonable to think some of his followers were also Hibs fans but the story re them selling stuff outside PBS sounds contrived to me. Certainly by the time I first encountered Cormack in the 60's his ship had sailed & his speeches were mostly just anti Catholic rants & pretty much completely opposite to the values of my fellow Hibs fans.

What the book says is that some of his supporters were hibs fans. Not unreasonable given he was a Leith Councillor for many years. The other quote is from hibs net and does not say hibs fans sold Protestant Action papers outside Tynecastle - only that the paper was. John Menzies sold the paper. The point of these posts is that neither Hibs nor Hearts are sectarian and draw their support from a wide cross section.

[trev the hat]

Without wishing to glorify the casual movement. It was a reaction to a frustration of amongst youths at the time. A desire to look smarter, be more organised and be bigger and better than the gang culture that had preceded them.


More a realisation that a collective EH postcode youth movement was far more beneficial, especially as most were Hibs orientated & the area infighting virtually ceased due to this.

[hibsmum]

That lot should be grounded forever😃

[Hillsidehibby]

I learned the words to the Soldier Song and The Merry Ploughboy when I first started to go to ER.

[leggeto]

Embarrassing behaviour especially from fans who support a club that takes great pride in it's war effort.

Theres a very very dark element in their support.

Got to be a minority, I know hundreds of Jambo's and none of them would do a Nazi salute

[Pretty Boy]

Got to be a minority, I know hundreds of Jambo's and none of them would do a Nazi salute

I only really know a handful of Hearts fans well and I can't imagine they would do a Nazi salute either.

I wouldn't associate with anyone, Hearts fan or otherwise, who did.

[capitals_finest]

Oh dear.

Yams have always struggled on the fashion front...

Mr Burberry looks like something out the x files.

[0762]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160221/07b84cafbd1f6b5a72e3b2086eb7b0c6.jpg
Found it.


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So that's what happened to Bill & Ben - the Flower Pot Men!!

[Kato]

Book "Edinburgh Divided" by Tom Gallagher page 117 line 8. The book is about John Cormack who campaigned in Leith and was a councillor there.

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Cheers, mate. I have read the book many years ago and may look that up. Gallagher provides no substance to the idea Cormack or any body in PA were Hibs fans other than Cormack represented Leith. As an aside the history of that period has so skewed that some Celtic connected Harry Swan to PA which is just absurd.

[andyf5]

Cheers, mate. I have read the book many years ago and may look that up. Gallagher provides no substance to the idea Cormack or any body in PA were Hibs fans other than Cormack represented Leith. As an aside the history of that period has so skewed that some Celtic connected Harry Swan to PA which is just absurd.

The book cites sources. I don't know I just read the book. I don't find it unbelievable that PA members were hibbies - we support a football team because we live in this area of Edinburgh. I have one grandfather who grew up in Gorgie and another in Piershill. Their religion is irrelevant.

[Waxy]

Have the jambos ever loaned a player to their big cousins from Glasgow?

[Time For Heroes]

Have the jambos ever loaned a player to their big cousins from Glasgow?

Billy king

[LustForLeith]

I wonder what Anne Budge is thinking of all of this?

[NAE NOOKIE]

To be honest I think any Yam sectarian problem is pretty minor in comparison to their Weegie cousins ..... They probably do have a bigger problem than us, but considering how miniscule ours has become over the last few decades that's not saying a lot.

I'm willing to bet the vast majority of them could happily do without the FTP / Billy boys stuff and hopefully like us, over the next few years their own fans will create a culture where the sectarian pish is seen as unacceptable.

[jacomo]

It's like three wee boys tried to dress up like casuals from the 80s for Halloween

:faf:

I'd like to think they all got a punch in the face too, just for nostalgic reasons.

[AndyM_1875]

Cormack was on the council for about 20 years & I have a vague memory of my Dad having regular run ins with him. I also remember Cormack speaking at The Mound every Sunday, into the 60's IIRC. He was first elected at a time when fascism was fashionable & he became a popular & hardworking local councillor, not for but almost in spite of his politics. With the support he received in Leith it would be reasonable to think some of his followers were also Hibs fans but the story re them selling stuff outside PBS sounds contrived to me. Certainly by the time I first encountered Cormack in the 60's his ship had sailed & his speeches were mostly just anti Catholic rants & pretty much completely opposite to the values of my fellow Hibs fans.

One of my Great Uncles used to give Cormack and PA pelters.

Considering my great uncle was a war veteran who came back a communist, an atheist and was a Trade Union shop steward as well as being a Hibby I doubt very much that Cormack's politics would have appealed. :greengrin

[Hibernia&Alba]

One of my Great Uncles used to give Cormack and PA pelters.

Considering my great uncle was a war veteran who came back a communist, an atheist and was a Trade Union shop steward as well as being a Hibby I doubt very much that Cormack's politics would have appealed. :greengrin

He sounds like a top guy to me :agree:

[brog]

One of my Great Uncles used to give Cormack and PA pelters.

Considering my great uncle was a war veteran who came back a communist, an atheist and was a Trade Union shop steward as well as being a Hibby I doubt very much that Cormack's politics would have appealed. :greengrin

I think I stole your uncle's cv!

[Malthibby]

I think I stole your uncle's cv!

Wish more folk would.....
GG