Scoring Goals

[rcarter1]

No doubt about it we have a talented team. Even tonight I was impressed at times with the touch, control and accurate short passing. But tonight not only did we not score, we didn't really look like scoring. Its been a few years now since I watched a Hibs team that found scored a lot of goals. Last year we struggled, and this year in spite of our success we have struggled. This team has everything at a high standard - except goals. I think Stubbs and the management team could do with shaking something up in either how we play or how we train, because we aren't getting the goals our overall play deserves.

[PISTOL1875]

No doubt about it we have a talented team. Even tonight I was impressed at times with the touch, control and accurate short passing. But tonight not only did we not score, we didn't really look like scoring. Its been a few years now since I watched a Hibs team that found scored a lot of goals. Last year we struggled, and this year in spite of our success we have struggled. This team has everything at a high standard - except goals. I think Stubbs and the management team could do with shaking something up in either how we play or how we train, because we aren't getting the goals our overall play deserves.


The first thing he has to do is start making changes far earlier than he does just now...

[MWHIBBIES]

We don't keep the ball anywhere near well enough without Fyvie and McGeough, gave it away for free far too often. More of the ball (when you have Stokes and Cummings upfront) = more goals.

[rcarter1]

We don't keep the ball anywhere near well enough without Fyvie and McGeough, gave it away for free far too often. More of the ball (when you have Stokes and Cummings upfront) = more goals.

You could be right about Fyvie and Mcgeough in terms of keeping the ball. I disagree about more of the ball = more goals.

Some very effective teams score most of their goals on the break, and do not dominate possession. I would say that Hibs are still struggling to turn possession into dangerous situation. The lack of confidence to shoot from out the box was evident tonight as it has been in other games. Players needing to take an extra touch - often resulting in the time for the defender to block - also suggests lack of confidence with this. I don't know if its just our current players aren't the greatest shooters, or if its something that can be improved on the training field.

[seanshow]

You could be right about Fyvie and Mcgeough in terms of keeping the ball. I disagree about more of the ball = more goals. Some very effective teams score most of their goals on the break, and do not dominate possession. I would say that Hibs are still struggling to turn possession into dangerous situation. The lack of confidence to shoot from out the box was evident tonight as it has been in other games. Players needing to take an extra touch - often resulting in the time for the defender to block - also suggests lack of confidence with this. I don't know if its just our current players aren't the greatest shooters, or if its something that can be improved on the training field. Does McGregor have to come up from the back and show them how to shoot Hard and on target, we got a goal of one of his rebounds recently. Create a yard and bang it at goals! You've got to buy a ticket to win............

[Waxy]

Team which win honours almost always get goals from every player in the team.

[rcarter1]

Does McGregor have to come up from the back and show them how to shoot Hard and on target, we got a goal of one of his rebounds recently. Create a yard and bang it at goals! You've got to buy a ticket to win............

Totally agree, we don't have a system that creates this space/players willing to have a go regularly. Worst part is, when we get the ball into positions that we might shoot, we quickly find ourselves closed down, and by and large the play breaks down.

[Eyrie]

Does McGregor have to come up from the back and show them how to shoot Hard and on target, we got a goal of one of his rebounds recently. Create a yard and bang it at goals! You've got to buy a ticket to win............

Particularly in conditions like this evening when there was always a decent chance that the keeper could spill the ball.

[My_Wife_Camille]

If Malonga still played for Hibs he would score goals for us constantlee

[AugustaHibs]

I honestly believe having more of the ball doesn't (to a certain extent) = more goals.

Look at Leicester this season for example. They barely have the ball yet they score a Barrel load due to how directly they play. GGTTH

[MWHIBBIES]

I honestly believe having more of the ball doesn't (to a certain extent) = more goals.

Look at Leicester this season for example. They barely have the ball yet they score a Barrel load due to how directly they play. GGTTHThat is them playing to their strengths of quick players who can beat guys 1 on 1 and get in behind. We don't have those players, we have guys like Henderson, McGinn and Stokes who play football on the deck and their attributes cleary benefit from having possession.

Watch Jamie Vardys goals this season and you'll see how many involve destroying defenders in sprints, our forwards aren't those types of players, they are guys who look better in possession (Stokes and formerly Malonga) and guys who thrive on scraps, pockets of space or out-thinking their opponents in the box (Cummings, Stokes, Keatings).

We have played a counter game at times (vs Rangers most notably) under Stubbs and scored goals like the ones Leicester score (Cummings vs Livi last season, vs Raith and Alloa this) but generally we play a possession game which makes sense because few teams in this league are going to leave a high enough line for us to get consistently in behind.

[rcarter1]

That is them playing to their strengths of quick players who can beat guys 1 on 1 and get in behind. We don't have those players, we have guys like Henderson, McGinn and Stokes who play football on the deck and their attributes cleary benefit from having possession.

Watch Jamie Vardys goals this season and you'll see how many involve destroying defenders in sprints, our forwards aren't those types of players, they are guys who look better in possession (Stokes and formerly Malonga) and guys who thrive on scraps, pockets of space or out-thinking their opponents in the box (Cummings, Stokes, Keatings).

We have played a counter game at times (vs Rangers most notably) under Stubbs and scored goals like the ones Leicester score (Cummings vs Livi last season, vs Raith and Alloa this) but generally we play a possession game which makes sense because few teams in this league are going to leave a high enough line for us to get consistently in behind.

If you are right about our team being most effective as a possession team then this concerns me. Given that we regularly have 60-70% possession, we don't exactly score many goals. When we get to the SPL we will unlikely have such high possession.

You would think that a team used to possession would be good at shooting around the box, and good at wearing teams down physically. If you have a lot of possession and you're facing a packed defence, you would want to put balls into the box and have one or more large target men to score headers/cause problems.

We have Cummings, Dagnall, Keatings and Stokes. Even Malonga though quite tall was not really a target man.

I believe we are far better when counter attacking. Our results against SPL sides this season suggest that dominating possession isn't how we score goals.

Now I agree with you, that we are forced to play a possession game against teams who want to sit it. But I don't think it suits us.

[ballengeich]

The perpetual lack of width in attack is one of the problems. We had three forwards yesterday, none of whom ever got to the bye-line to put in a cross for attackers to run on to. With three in midfield instead of four we didn't dominate possession as we usually do.

If a team fields three forwards one of them has to be a natural wide player. The only player of that type I see in our squad is Boyle, but Stubbs doesn't like playing a formation with a winger. Any threat from wide comes when the fullbacks get forward and by that time all the defenders are back so we're outnumbered in the penalty area. We may well be better equipped than The Rangers to play against premier standard opponents, but we're more likely to drop points in games like yesterday's.

[J-C]

If we use fullbacks as width, these players need to have a very good crossing ability, both of ours struggle to do this regularly and the amount of times I see Stevenson cutting back and play a sideways pass is annoying.

[jacomo]

The perpetual lack of width in attack is one of the problems. We had three forwards yesterday, none of whom ever got to the bye-line to put in a cross for attackers to run on to. With three in midfield instead of four we didn't dominate possession as we usually do.

If a team fields three forwards one of them has to be a natural wide player. The only player of that type I see in our squad is Boyle, but Stubbs doesn't like playing a formation with a winger. Any threat from wide comes when the fullbacks get forward and by that time all the defenders are back so we're outnumbered in the penalty area. We may well be better equipped than The Rangers to play against premier standard opponents, but we're more likely to drop points in games like yesterday's.

Celtc turned Stokes into a more versatile player, Lennon would play him wide at times. I would hope he'd come looking for the ball and space, as JC really isn't that kind of player.

[MWHIBBIES]

If you are right about our team being most effective as a possession team then this concerns me. Given that we regularly have 60-70% possession, we don't exactly score many goals. When we get to the SPL we will unlikely have such high possession.

You would think that a team used to possession would be good at shooting around the box, and good at wearing teams down physically. If you have a lot of possession and you're facing a packed defence, you would want to put balls into the box and have one or more large target men to score headers/cause problems.

We have Cummings, Dagnall, Keatings and Stokes. Even Malonga though quite tall was not really a target man.

I believe we are far better when counter attacking. Our results against SPL sides this season suggest that dominating possession isn't how we score goals.

Now I agree with you, that we are forced to play a possession game against teams who want to sit it. But I don't think it suits us.We've scored 1 counter attacking goal in those games though? The rest have been from us having the ball and creating chances.

I didn't say we need to dominate possession but our goals come from us having it, not from direct passes or quick counter attacking moves. We may be better while counter attacking but we don't have the pace to do it consistently and you only have to look at this place after the recent loss to Rangers to see how daft people are when we play like that and get beat.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Yesterday, was the first time since August 23rd, where we haven't scored in League or Cup.........

[Scouse Hibee]

Yesterday, was the first time since August 23rd, where we haven't scored in League or Cup.........

Yes what a crisis eh!

[Baldy Foghorn]

Yes what a crisis eh!

:agree:

[greenlex]

We need to get/keep Cummings and Stokes in and about the box. Non of this tip of he diamond nonsense. That is where Henderson should and be.rest of the diamond perm any three from Bartley/ McGeouch McGinn Thomson and Fyvie. Keatings and Boyle from the bench earlier in games. There's goals in that right there.

[MWHIBBIES]

We need to get/keep Cummings and Stokes in and about the box. Non of this tip of he diamond nonsense. That is where Henderson should and be.rest of the diamond perm any three from Bartley/ McGeouch McGinn Thomson and Fyvie. Keatings and Boyle from the bench earlier in games. There's goals in that right there.Any 3 of those players doesn't work and if that doesn't work then there won't be goals in it.

The 3 has to include McGeough or Fyvie and McGinn if it is going to work.

[greenlex]

Any 3 of those players doesn't work and if that doesn't work then there won't be goals in it.

The 3 has to include McGeough or Fyvie and McGinn if it is going to work.
That's the natural 3 for me but two ain't fit. Should add Dagnal an option from the bench too.

[Ronniekirk]

Yesterday, was the first time since August 23rd, where we haven't scored in League or Cup.........

And the Kilmarnock cup game was the first time all season Rangers hadn't scored in a game


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[MWHIBBIES]

That's the natural 3 for me but two ain't fit.and that is why it didn't function properly yesterday, we were losing the ball all over the place and also why Henderson didn't play behind the strikers but on the right, we didn't have anyone else for the right side of that 3. The starting line-up and shape was probably (I'd have put Thomson instead of Bartley) right and was Stubbs best option (playing Stokes deeper than is)

[greenlex]

and that is why it didn't function properly yesterday, we were losing the ball all over the place and also why Henderson didn't play behind the strikers but on the right, we didn't have anyone else for the right side of that 3. The starting line-up and shape was probably (I'd have put Thomson instead of Bartley) right and was Stubbs best option (playing Stokes deeper than is)

Stokes kept having to drop deep as Livi had loads of possession in the midfield and was wasted there. That Certainly didn't work. It will certainly need to be better Tuesday night.

[rcarter1]

We've scored 1 counter attacking goal in those games though? The rest have been from us having the ball and creating chances.

I didn't say we need to dominate possession but our goals come from us having it, not from direct passes or quick counter attacking moves. We may be better while counter attacking but we don't have the pace to do it consistently and you only have to look at this place after the recent loss to Rangers to see how daft people are when we play like that and get beat.

Ill take your word for it that we scored only 1 counter attacking goal in these games. Nonetheless, in these games the opposition were less inclined to pack their defences for most of the game. I don't have an answer for it but Im just looking at our goals/game ratio and its not great. Hearts last season and Rangers this season have scored over 2.5 goals/game in the Championship. We are 1.65/game (almost identical to Falkirk).

I am only asking whether we could change our style of play to get more goals? Others on the thread have mentioned getting more width, or encouraging a shoot on sight policy from midfield. Do we need to practice shooting, or are we simply not a great goal scoring side?

Im hoping that Keatings regains form, Dagnall hits a purple patch, Stokes reaches full match fitness, and our midfielders can pitch in with a few more, but am genuinely perplexed why we aren't more free scoring, in spite of regularly high possession stats in this league.

[ancient hibee]

As we play a passing game and play it quite slowly( even at this level)it allows teams to pack their penalty area with bodies-many of our shots don't even reach the goalie because of this.I don't know if it's borne out by stats.but it has seemed to me that for years the best way to score goals is to cut the ball back from the bye line into and behind the middle of the defence-we don't seem to have the players that can do this consistently(particularly when we don't have a Scott Allan to play them in down the wing).

[mca]

Yesterday, was the first time since August 23rd, where we haven't scored in League or Cup.........


I Blame The Pitch.. I Think the game Should have been called off.... :agree:

You Could see the Water Spinning off the Ball !!!

[Aldo]

I Blame The Pitch.. I Think the game Should have been called off.... :agree: You Could see the Water Spinning off the Ball !!!

The pitch was fine, was playable and the game shouldn't of been called off. Same for both teams. We were just poor!

[greenlex]

The pitch was fine, was playable and the game shouldn't of been called off. Same for both teams. We were just poor!

Levelled the teams out. IMO. Definitely playable tho.