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Lago
13-02-2016, 01:34 PM
Looks as if the so called elite clubs are trying to push for a closed shop along the lines of the NFL I.e no promotion via national leagues or relegation to Europa league. A nice cartel scratching each others backs. Sad day for football if this gets put in place.

MWHIBBIES
13-02-2016, 02:12 PM
Football already died when the Huns did, everything since is irrelevant.

Diclonius
13-02-2016, 02:43 PM
If automatic entry is introduced to the Champions League, I'm done watching European football.

Danderhall Hibs
13-02-2016, 02:45 PM
I don't watch it anyway. It's already all the same teams playing each other every week.

marinello59
13-02-2016, 02:47 PM
I don't watch it anyway. It's already all the same teams playing each other every week.

When Sky lost the rights to BT I realised I really didn't care as I hadn't watched any of it the season before. Give me a match involving Hibs any time.

Pretty Boy
13-02-2016, 02:47 PM
I don't watch it anyway. It's already all the same teams playing each other every week.

Same for me.

Ceased to be exciting years ago. A big unseeded knock out competition would get me interested again but that will never happen. Apparently AC Milan were the architects of this plan a few years back, hardly a shock when you consider they have struggled to qualify in recent years. Expect strong backing from Man Utd, Lyon, Chelsea and Liverpool soon.

Smartie
13-02-2016, 02:52 PM
The Champions League used to be superb but it has totally lost its way.

I rarely watch it - it gets slightly interesting at about the QF stage but the rest of it is rubbish.

I know loads of other fans who would have watched it years ago but don't any more.

When you look past the polish and the hype an awful lot of football fails to deliver these days.

Thecat23
13-02-2016, 02:53 PM
Champions League football is the biggest snore fest ever! No wonder Sky chucked it.

Can't remember the last game I watched all the way through!

jgl07
13-02-2016, 03:20 PM
It's to be expected from a corrupt organisation like UEFA.

It was the greasy paw prints of the old G14 all over it.

Some of their number notably Manchester United, Milan, Inter, Lyon, Chelsea, etc are too crap to qualify so the goalposts have to be moved.

The tournament is already seeded to the point of extinction. This is all to prop up the alleged 'top clubs' but even then some cannot make it through their domestic leagues. The seeding makes for many of the rubbish matches that BT try to inflict on us.

I predict that they will not get away with it. Any moves to create a 'closed shop' will meet legal action for restraint of trade from clubs excluded.

Lago
13-02-2016, 03:56 PM
Don't disagree that it is boring etc however if these plans go ahead it will inevitably suck more and more money out of the game at so called lower levels. It can't be allowed to happen.

Ozyhibby
13-02-2016, 04:02 PM
It's to be expected from a corrupt organisation like UEFA.

It was the greasy paw prints of the old G14 all over it.

Some of their number notably Manchester United, Milan, Inter, Lyon, Chelsea, etc are too crap to qualify so the goalposts have to be moved.

The tournament is already seeded to the point of extinction. This is all to prop up the alleged 'top clubs' but even then some cannot make it through their domestic leagues. The seeding makes for many of the rubbish matches that BT try to inflict on us.

I predict that they will not get away with it. Any moves to create a 'closed shop' will meet legal action for restraint of trade from clubs excluded.

They are getting away with restraining our trade no problem this week.


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Pretty Boy
13-02-2016, 04:03 PM
Don't disagree that it is boring etc however if these plans go ahead it will inevitably suck more and more money out of the game at so called lower levels. It can't be allowed to happen.

I think the general consensus it's boring because of plans like this.

You're spot on with the 2nd point. However part of me does just wish Man Utd, Man City, Barcelona, Bayern Munich etc would just **** off and start an elite league and leave the rest of us to get on with it.

Lago
13-02-2016, 04:23 PM
I think the general consensus it's boring because of plans like this.

You're spot on with the 2nd point. However part of me does just wish Man Utd, Man City, Barcelona, Bayern Munich etc would just **** off and start an elite league and leave the rest of us to get on with it.

Yip it gets to the point where this sort news begins to wear you down to the point as you say wish they would go and give us peace, then it would be an NFL situation with the chapions league final being the equivalent of the Super Bowl.

NAE NOOKIE
13-02-2016, 05:04 PM
This has been coming.

It started with the Champions league format being introduced, mainly driven by German TV who were in a strop after paying Bayern Munich a small fortune up front only for them to go out early.

Then you have seeding introduced to ensure the big clubs only have minnows to swat until the later stages.

That still doesn't solve the pesky problem for the likes of Man Utd, AC Milan, Ajax and now Chelsea of having to actually finish in a league qualification position.

The answer? ..... Chuck pretence of fairness straight oot the windae and take the brakes off the greedfest.

I barely have time for the CL as it stands now ...... If this happens I for one will lose any interest in it at all. Its high time the smaller countries that make up 90% of UEFA's membership reminded them that they exist to represent everybody.

Scorrie
13-02-2016, 05:34 PM
When Sky lost the rights to BT I realised I really didn't care as I hadn't watched any of it the season before. Give me a match involving Hibs any time.

That's it in a nutshell.

Phil MaGlass
13-02-2016, 05:39 PM
I watch really little of thechampions league, most games not worth watching, same teams same fitba.

DH1875
13-02-2016, 05:49 PM
Leicester & Spurs could finish top 2 in the EPL and wouldn't be able to qualify yet mid table Chelsea would. Total bollocks.

Out of curiosity though, who would be the top 32 teams?

Glory Lurker
13-02-2016, 06:12 PM
Out of curiosity though, who would be the top 32 teams?

Why is this a "NHC" thread? :greengrin

ScottB
13-02-2016, 06:43 PM
Leicester & Spurs could finish top 2 in the EPL and wouldn't be able to qualify yet mid table Chelsea would. Total bollocks.

Out of curiosity though, who would be the top 32 teams?

I imagine it might be rather difficult to have a fixed number that never changes, for example if this had happened ten years ago, Man City wouldn't have gotten an invite and I doubt PSG would have either. Fast forward a few years from now and I reckon you'd find some random billionaires new play thing on the outside would be pushing to get in.


I say let them go and do it. They suck up all the money and its nigh on impossible to get into the group stages for Scottish teams as it is. Establish a new European tournament involving the smaller nations and the excluded teams from the big ones.

Though I have to wonder how it would work within EU Law, whether having a closed shop tournament excluding everybody else would get past cartel / anti competition laws or not...

pacorosssco
13-02-2016, 07:27 PM
Bayern have stopped domestic challenge now making moves for european domination. European football competition if not already is finished if this goes through. Karl heinz, Platini ex players who have set out to ruin game for own their benefit as for Celtic/SFA bafoon fighting for Scottish game to me a favour.

J-C
14-02-2016, 07:28 AM
Leicester & Spurs could finish top 2 in the EPL and wouldn't be able to qualify yet mid table Chelsea would. Total bollocks.

Out of curiosity though, who would be the top 32 teams?

I thought the proposal was a restricted league and not teams, a closed shop for certain countries and their teams, excluding all the wee leagues like ours.

ballengeich
14-02-2016, 08:36 AM
I suspect this is coming to the fore now as a response to the new English TV deal. Relatively small mid-table English teams can now take players off clubs in any other country with a handful of exceptions. The big teams elsewhere can either accept this or come up with a scheme to counter it. Rummenigge's proposal is just the first draft.

Steve-O
14-02-2016, 09:39 AM
I used to enjoy it in the 90s when Man Utd were virtually the only UK team in it for a few years. Became bored of it when they expanded it though.

It is shown in NZ but I now only ever watch the final. Not even sure I'll bother with that this year.

lucky
14-02-2016, 09:50 AM
The knock out stages are still a decent watch but the group stages is crap. But the only way the CL survives is TV. If football fans across Europe chuck their PPV TV packages then it would crumble. We've seen already that UFEA is king and has stopped our Derby from being televised. What does UFEA mean to us as Hibs fans? Our national team is a lightweight who make up the numbers and our beloved Hibs qualify every 10 years. At least when we gubbed by Malmo, we had actually heard off them. For me I'm a Hibs fan and our games are far more important that some plastic fixture that the CL give us

Ozyhibby
14-02-2016, 09:59 AM
We are not the only ones not watching it.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/champions-league/12151245/BT-Sports-dismal-Champions-League-viewing-figures-raise-concerns-at-Uefa.html



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ancient hibee
14-02-2016, 12:06 PM
Strange isn't it?Two Hibs performances we like to boast about-getting to the European Cup semi and beating Barcelona were as the result of getting invitations to take part.

HiBremian
14-02-2016, 12:27 PM
The knock out stages are still a decent watch but the group stages is crap. But the only way the CL survives is TV. If football fans across Europe chuck their PPV TV packages then it would crumble. We've seen already that UFEA is king and has stopped our Derby from being televised. What does UFEA mean to us as Hibs fans? Our national team is a lightweight who make up the numbers and our beloved Hibs qualify every 10 years. At least when we gubbed by Malmo, we had actually heard off them. For me I'm a Hibs fan and our games are far more important that some plastic fixture that the CL give us


We are not the only ones not watching it.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/champions-league/12151245/BT-Sports-dismal-Champions-League-viewing-figures-raise-concerns-at-Uefa.html



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In the age of internet access to almost everything, and services like Hibs TV upping their quality, interesting signs that the punters are waking up to the fact they don't have to pay for the s**te-fest being offered by the so-called big boys.

portycabbage
14-02-2016, 12:42 PM
Strange isn't it?Two Hibs performances we like to boast about-getting to the European Cup semi and beating Barcelona were as the result of getting invitations to take part.

I thought it was just the first European Cup that was by invitation? Barcelona was in the Fairs Cup 5 years later.

erin go bragh
14-02-2016, 05:15 PM
Strange isn't it?Two Hibs performances we like to boast about-getting to the European Cup semi and beating Barcelona were as the result of getting invitations to take part.

We knocked out Barca in the old Fairs cup in 61 .
How was that an invitation ?

GGTTH

southern hibby
14-02-2016, 05:45 PM
Said all along that the Champions League name is deceiving. If it was for the champions then every league winning team in Europe would get automatic places.

Really is a sad day for football if this is passed.

GGTTH

Hibs Class
14-02-2016, 05:46 PM
It's so stupid an idea that even Neil Doncaster can see it's a stupid idea and has spoken out against it

ScottB
14-02-2016, 06:57 PM
It's so stupid an idea that even Neil Doncaster can see it's a stupid idea and has spoken out against it

I'm not sure it is a 'stupid' idea. A selfish one, absolutely.

Can see it now, big teams only, with random matches played in the US, Middle East and Asia, NFL style. They'll absolutely rake it in.

DH1875
14-02-2016, 07:54 PM
I thought the proposal was a restricted league and not teams, a closed shop for certain countries and their teams, excluding all the wee leagues like ours.


Don't think thats right. Take the EPL for example, how does Leicester and spurs qualifying help teams like Man U and Chelsea? If it is going NFL style then its a 32 closed team league. Would it be the top 32 teams in Europe and who picks these 32 teams or would it just be the EPL joined by Barca, Real and Bayern :confused:.

If they did pick a league of 32 from across Europe, what would everyone's 32 teams be? Think I'd go with;

1) Real Madrid.
2) Barcelona.
3) Atletico Madrid.
4) Valencia.
5) Sporting Lisbon.
6) Benfica.
7) Porto.
8) AC Milan.
9) Inter Milan.
10) Juventus.
11) Roma.
12) PSG.
13) Marseille.
14) Lyon.
15) Ajax.
16) PSV.
17) Anderlecht.
18) Bayern Munich.
19) Dortmund.
20) Schalke.
21) Bayern Leverkusen.
22) FC Basel.
23) Galatasary.
24) Fenerbache.
25) Shakhtar Donetsk.
26) Zenit St P.
27) CSKA Moscow.
28) Celtic.
29) Man Utd.
30) Arsenal.

31 & 32, I'm not sure on this and is one of the reasons I can't see it happening. Obv they'd be English but which clubs would it be if they were restricted to 4 teams. Would they be restricted to 4 teams? For me they'd have to be as any more would be very unfair. Would Liverpool get in ahead of the likes of Man City or Chelsea as to me, Liverpool are a bigger club than them.

rcarter1
14-02-2016, 08:03 PM
Don't think thats right. Take the EPL for example, how does Leicester and spurs qualifying help teams like Man U and Chelsea? If it is going NFL style then its a 32 closed team league. Would it be the top 32 teams in Europe and who picks these 32 teams or would it just be the EPL joined by Barca, Real and Bayern :confused:.

If they did pick a league of 32 from across Europe, what would everyone's 32 teams be? Think I'd go with;

1) Real Madrid.
2) Barcelona.
3) Atletico Madrid.
4) Valencia.
5) Sporting Lisbon.
6) Benfica.
7) Porto.
8) AC Milan.
9) Inter Milan.
10) Juventus.
11) Roma.
12) PSG.
13) Marseille.
14) Lyon.
15) Ajax.
16) PSV.
17) Anderlecht.
18) Bayern Munich.
19) Dortmund.
20) Schalke.
21) Bayern Leverkusen.
22) FC Basel.
23) Galatasary.
24) Fenerbache.
25) Shakhtar Donetsk.
26) Zenit St P.
27) CSKA Moscow.
28) Celtic.
29) Man Utd.
30) Arsenal.

31 & 32, I'm not sure on this and is one of the reasons I can't see it happening. Obv they'd be English but which clubs would it be if they were restricted to 4 teams. Would they be restricted to 4 teams? For me they'd have to be as any more would be very unfair. Would Liverpool get in ahead of the likes of Man City or Chelsea as to me, Liverpool are a bigger club than them.

You forgot the Famous, and the The Peeple.

ancient hibee
14-02-2016, 09:28 PM
We knocked out Barca in the old Fairs cup in 61 .
How was that an invitation ?

GGTTH

The Fairs Cup was started as a competition for teams from cities that had trade fairs.Hibs were invited to take part as the organisers considered the Edinburgh Festival to be a trade fair even though it wasn't.In other words they invited the teams they wanted but only one team from each city.There was no other qualification required.Sometimes the tournament took two seasons to reach a conclusion.

erin go bragh
15-02-2016, 10:09 AM
Never knew that [emoji106]
My bad .

GGTTH


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Bishop Hibee
15-02-2016, 10:20 AM
We are not the only ones not watching it.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/champions-league/12151245/BT-Sports-dismal-Champions-League-viewing-figures-raise-concerns-at-Uefa.html



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How do you find out which matches are 'free to air'? I didn't know any of them were!

I've said for years that the endgame is a European League probably NFL style. It will be done on club wealth and supporter base for TV viewing not ability on the pitch.

Lago
15-02-2016, 11:01 AM
How do you find out which matches are 'free to air'? I didn't know any of them were!

I've said for years that the endgame is a European League probably NFL style. It will be done on club wealth and supporter base for TV viewing not ability on the pitch.
Your right they want like the NFL effectively some sort of franchise system.

ancient hibee
15-02-2016, 11:29 AM
Never knew that [emoji106]
My bad .

GGTTH


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That's 'cos you're not as old as me:greengrin

Spike Mandela
15-02-2016, 11:30 AM
The corporate suits at UEFA and it's Champions League sponsors won't be happy till the word 'sport' is removed entirely from all their contracts and constitutions.

European football has become a trough for the self interested whilst the rest of the football world is losing interest.

Phil MaGlass
15-02-2016, 11:49 AM
Rest of the clubs need to start their own European tournament.

jgl07
15-02-2016, 05:23 PM
I imagine it might be rather difficult to have a fixed number that never changes, for example if this had happened ten years ago, Man City wouldn't have gotten an invite and I doubt PSG would have either. Fast forward a few years from now and I reckon you'd find some random billionaires new play thing on the outside would be pushing to get in.

I say let them go and do it. They suck up all the money and its nigh on impossible to get into the group stages for Scottish teams as it is. Establish a new European tournament involving the smaller nations and the excluded teams from the big ones.

Though I have to wonder how it would work within EU Law, whether having a closed shop tournament excluding everybody else would get past cartel / anti competition laws or not...
They seem to be arguing that there would be a number of 'permanent' members (maybe 20?) supplemented by some who would come through a qualifying process (12?).

The question is how would you determine who that 20 would be. I suspect that the 'agenda' behind this is to protect the 'Old Money' clubs such as Man United, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Juventus, Milan, Inter, Bayern, etc. from the 'New Money' teams personified by Manchester City. Chelsea crept into the elite some time back.

Financial Fair Play was set up with this objective but has failed miserably. UEFA seem to have backed-off so I suspect they have had legal advice to do so. That may open the way for further 'New Money' arrivistes.

Their problem is to come up with some objective criteria to select the permanent qualifiers that could not be challenged by legal action. I don't think it can be done. I think it may be all piss and wind from Karl-Heinz Rummenigge. Try coming up with a system that selected Arsenal over Tottenham and think you can escape legal action!

HiBremian
15-02-2016, 05:31 PM
Rest of the clubs need to start their own European tournament.

We could call it the Inter-Cities Fair Cup :wink:

Hibrandenburg
15-02-2016, 06:17 PM
Not been interested that snooze fest for years. Football should always be a game of skill and the luck of the draw, seeding top clubs has ruined the game at European level.