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Kojock
10-02-2016, 01:22 PM
The Loyalty Scheme has caused a lot of in fighting between Hibs fans and I'm sure the Hibs board are fed up with all the grief received since its induction.

I would be all for scrapping the current scheme, get back to the drawing board and set up a brand new scheme. A working party should be set up where fans would be able to give their opinions and input into how the new scheme should work, how points should be awarded and to whom.

To me the aims are simple and there should be two schemes set up :

Loyalty scheme - Rewarding fans who attend away games. 1 point should be awarded for away games only. Only season ticket holders can register for the Loyalty Scheme. This would be done on a rolling system of say 15 games.

Reward Scheme (similar idea to a Tesco Clubcard) where fans giving money to the club, through the shop, and other Hibernian outlets are given points according to their spend. These points can be redeemed against further purchases in the Hibernian outlets.

I obviously don't have any idea of the feasibility of either scheme or the set up costs etc. but one thing I do know is the current scheme is not working.

Ozyhibby
10-02-2016, 01:27 PM
The Loyalty Scheme has caused a lot of in fighting between Hibs fans and I'm sure the Hibs board are fed up with all the grief received since its induction.

I would be all for scrapping the current scheme, get back to the drawing board and set up a brand new scheme. A working party should be set up where fans would be able to give their opinions and input into how the new scheme should work, how points should be awarded and to whom.

To me the aims are simple and there should be two schemes set up :

Loyalty scheme - Rewarding fans who attend away games. 1 point should be awarded for away games only. Only season ticket holders can register for the Loyalty Scheme. This would be done on a rolling system of say 15 games.

Reward Scheme (similar idea to a Tesco Clubcard) where fans giving money to the club, through the shop, and other Hibernian outlets are given points according to their spend. These points can be redeemed against further purchases in the Hibernian outlets.

I obviously don't have any idea of the feasibility of either scheme or the set up costs etc. but one thing I do know is the current scheme is not working.

Given the bother that this scheme has caused and the money it's costing the club dealing with people complaining about it, I very much doubt that anyone at the club will see two such schemes as the solution.


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Pretty Boy
10-02-2016, 01:29 PM
50 points ST
25 half ST
10 Hibs TV
2 points home game
1 point away game

Simple and the smaller numbers make it seem more manageable imo.

djs69
10-02-2016, 01:32 PM
I don't know any regular fan who hasn't managed to get a ticket for a big game? We only have 6 sell outs since it started, the hearts replay, the semi at tynie, away games at tynie and ibrox. What doesn't work?

Kojock
10-02-2016, 01:33 PM
Given the bother that this scheme has caused and the money it's costing the club dealing with people complaining about it, I very much doubt that anyone at the club will see two such schemes as the solution.


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So how do you see the loyalty scheme progressing in the future and what do you think the club could do to reduce the number of complaints ?

jodjam
10-02-2016, 01:34 PM
Given the bother that this scheme has caused and the money it's costing the club dealing with people complaining about it, I very much doubt that anyone at the club will see two such schemes as the solution.


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If stays as is i won't be renewing our 3 season tix for reasons discussed in other threads but I'm curious about your comment about people complaining costing club money.

Not sure what you mean mate. Can you elaborate

itslegaltender
10-02-2016, 01:34 PM
I don't know any regular fan who hasn't managed to get a ticket for a big game? We only have 6 sell outs since it started, the hearts replay, the semi at tynie, away games at tynie and ibrox. What doesn't work?


Very much this. Think its fine, it rewards season ticket purchasers first and then those that go regularly next.

Ken
10-02-2016, 01:36 PM
The loyalty scheme is working fine, not perfect, but it was only put in place towards the end of last season and games like the semi, Hearts away and the replay will be where Hibs can learn from any mistakes in order to improve it.


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CentreLine
10-02-2016, 01:38 PM
So how do you see the loyalty scheme progressing in the future and what do you think the club could do to reduce the number of complaints ?

I haven't really been paying much attention to this points thing. I sort of think about it the way I think about Sainsbury or Tesco loyalty points. I know they're there but they are not the reason I use these shops. How many complaints have there been?

Ozyhibby
10-02-2016, 01:41 PM
If stays as is i won't be renewing our 3 season tix for reasons discussed in other threads but I'm curious about your comment about people complaining costing club money.

Not sure what you mean mate. Can you elaborate

Every time someone emails the club or calls to complain about the loyalty points, one of the very small admin team at Hibs has to deal with it. Under the old system, nobody complained. Now they are dealing with questions and queries on an daily basis. It's stopping them from doing other things. And the loyalty point scheme doesn't sell extra tickets, it just distributes them. So any time spent administering the system costs Hibs money. Money that could be better spent on the park.


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Geo_1875
10-02-2016, 01:42 PM
I haven't really been paying much attention to this points thing. I sort of think about it the way I think about Sainsbury or Tesco loyalty points. I know they're there but they are not the reason I use these shops. How many complaints have there been?

There's been a lot of complaints from people who don't have enough points for big away games and from people who can't sit beside their mates because they don't have enough points.

CentreLine
10-02-2016, 01:44 PM
If stays as is i won't be renewing our 3 season tix for reasons discussed in other threads but I'm curious about your comment about people complaining costing club money.

Not sure what you mean mate. Can you elaborate

Please point me in the direction of the other threads. No criticism intended or implied, I genuinely want to have a read as, with so much positivity around, I'm surprised and disappointed to to hear there are currently reasons for a ST holder walking away.

CentreLine
10-02-2016, 01:48 PM
There's been a lot of complaints from people who don't have enough points for big away games and from people who can't sit beside their mates because they don't have enough points.

Okay, but what is a lot? Is there a number on this or are we just making assumptions? :dunno:

lord bunberry
10-02-2016, 01:50 PM
Please point me in the direction of the other threads. No criticism intended or implied, I genuinely want to have a read as, with so much positivity around, I'm surprised and disappointed to to hear there are currently reasons for a ST holder walking away.
It's not a case of a season ticket holder walking away, it's a season ticket holder not renewing and becoming a walk up fan.

Geo_1875
10-02-2016, 01:51 PM
Okay, but what is a lot? Is there a number on this or are we just making assumptions? :dunno:

There are a few threads on HSL and loyalty points. The loyalty points complaint also appears regularly on ticket threads.

RCNG
10-02-2016, 01:53 PM
Very much this. Think its fine, it rewards season ticket purchasers first and then those that go regularly next.

This.

It works fine. Easter Road is Half empty every week. If we were filling it each week then there would've been more caution to the way tickets were sold.

You'll have to forgive the club on this one for not thinking the game would be a sell-out (possibly).

We, as fans, cannot throw the toys out of the pram for 1 game. Plenty of other tickets available throughout the season.

Hibby Riki
10-02-2016, 01:53 PM
The loyalty scheme is working fine, not perfect, but it was only put in place towards the end of last season and games like the semi, Hearts away and the replay will be where Hibs can learn from any mistakes in order to improve it.


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Not working fine IMO

Tin hat on here.. lets take Tincastle away in the cup... loyalty point scheme in operation, if my memory serves me right and no doubt someone will correct me if i'm wrong only 2 brackets were used something like:

over 300 and something points think that counts for about 500 -600 fans

over 180 point this accounts for about 8000 fighting over 3000 tickets

so fans with 180 probably got tickets for Tincastle and fans with more points didn't..

CentreLine
10-02-2016, 01:54 PM
It's not a case of a season ticket holder walking away, it's a season ticket holder not renewing and becoming a walk up fan.

Thanks, that makes a lot more sense

Viva_Palmeiras
10-02-2016, 01:56 PM
How do you measure (if indeed you can) the "success" of a scheme?
I'd suggest complaints is too blunt a measurement. You'd need to look at the nature of the complaints or "mistakes" to understand whether something needs addresses.

Some could complain that "I was a ST holder before the qualification period" but rules apply to all. Administration issues with people moving but not telling.... Would these justify scrapping a system? Any scheme will need to be monitored and adapted where needed as demand varies. We were in a fairly unique position - HSL points well wasn't that a net gain for the club ? It'll be a one-off.

Something needed to be done to make things less of a lottery. It might not be advantageous for everyone but neither is a democracy I suppose. It's when its wholly unfair for a sizeable number that's wrong.

I've only caught a little on the block booking thing (the bounce?) but it's something the club needs to take a serious look at one of the drivers for folks going to games is to be with their family/mates surely that needs to be addressed in a sensible way. I and others in LWT covered this with Scott Lindsay when the club first enganged with us.

Kojock
10-02-2016, 01:57 PM
The loyalty scheme is working fine, not perfect, but it was only put in place towards the end of last season and games like the semi, Hearts away and the replay will be where Hibs can learn from any mistakes in order to improve it.


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If you think its working fine I would suggest you speak to someone within the club who has to deal with numerous complaints on a regular basis.

Ozyhibby
10-02-2016, 01:59 PM
This.

It works fine. Easter Road is Half empty every week. If we were filling it each week then there would've been more caution to the way tickets were sold.

You'll have to forgive the club on this one for not thinking the game would be a sell-out (possibly).

We, as fans, cannot throw the toys out of the pram for 1 game. Plenty of other tickets available throughout the season.

I think this week has shown that having the loyalty point system where different people are allowed to buy on different day can adversely affect sales if people can't buy seats together. By letting everyone buy at the same time this week sales were higher than most thought possible.



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Ozyhibby
10-02-2016, 02:02 PM
If you think its working fine I would suggest you speak to someone within the club who has to deal with numerous complaints on a regular basis.

Exactly. It is costing the club money it can ill afford and it brings in zero extra revenue.


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CallumLaidlaw
10-02-2016, 02:03 PM
Just what we needed, another loyalty points debate [emoji85][emoji6]

Personally I don't see the problem with it. It rewards fans that go home and away.

Ken
10-02-2016, 02:03 PM
Tin hat on here.. lets take Tincastle away in the cup... loyalty point scheme in operation, if my memory serves me right and no doubt someone will correct me if i'm wrong only 2 brackets were used something like:

over 300 and something points think that counts for about 500 -600 fans

over 180 point this accounts for about 8000 fighting over 3000 tickets

so fans with 180 probably got tickets for Tincastle and fans with more points didn't..

1st phase was 3,100 fans in the top bracket (over c.296 points), with the additional 300 that were put on sale, together with the approx 200-300 that weren't taken up in the 1st phase


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CentreLine
10-02-2016, 02:04 PM
There are a few threads on HSL and loyalty points. The loyalty points complaint also appears regularly on ticket threads.

Okay but there are often lots of threads about stuff but when it all boils down to it, its the same person or few people that appear so often that people think in terms of "a lot". A lot of noise made by a few people can lead to an inflated view of the problem. Just look at the way hearts players made so much of a big deal about one tackle, the thing got blown out of proportion and three Hibs players were booked. I just feel there is too much made of the grumbles of a few when they appear on fan websites. It is healthy to be able to share views and opinions but a little bit of perspective would not go amiss when making wild claims about numbers

allezsauzee
10-02-2016, 02:04 PM
I have had a season ticket every season bar last season for the past 7 seasons. I still went to most of the home games as well as some away last season but because I bought my ticket at the ground I didn't get credited any loyalty points. As a result I didn't have enough points for the game at the PBS. However we need to have some sort of scheme in place and I think the current one is as good as we are likely to get (except perhaps going back a few more seasons). I contribute to HSL but I don't think giving money through this or spending in the shop should be able to buy you loyalty points. Loyalty points should be for people who actually go to the games regularly, watching and (hopefully) cheering the team on.

easty
10-02-2016, 02:07 PM
I think this week has shown that having the loyalty point system where different people are allowed to buy on different day can adversely affect sales if people can't buy seats together. By letting everyone buy at the same time this week sales were higher than most thought possible.



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It's against them in the cup, and the games no on the telly. That's the reason it's sold so well.

I dinnae understand this whole "cannae sit with my mates" thing. Any loyalty system we put in place is going to mean someone who has more points can get a ticket before their mate who has less points. That's no a fault with the system, thats the point of the system, reward those who go most.

They could perhaps look at bringing in more brackets when selling for big away games, but other than that the system is doing what its meant to do as far as I'm concerned.

Archie89
10-02-2016, 02:07 PM
Every time someone emails the club or calls to complain about the loyalty points, one of the very small admin team at Hibs has to deal with it. Under the old system, nobody complained. Now they are dealing with questions and queries on an daily basis. It's stopping them from doing other things. And the loyalty point scheme doesn't sell extra tickets, it just distributes them. So any time spent administering the system costs Hibs money. Money that could be better spent on the park.


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Totally agree with this. Any unnecessary cost to the club should be done away with. I would scrap it completely and go back to season ticket holders getting priority for buying limited availability tickets. Im speaking as someone who probably benefits from the scheme, I've always been in the first wave of sales for games. Id just rather there was no unnecessary cost or burden to the club and go back to first come first served.
Like i said, ive not missed out on any games since the loyalty scheme was introduced, but also I've never once in the last 30 years before the loyalty scheme came in not got a ticket for any game i wanted to go to. All seems really unnecessary to me, causes confusion, arguments and unnecessary work for staff at the club.

easty
10-02-2016, 02:08 PM
Exactly. It is costing the club money it can ill afford and it brings in zero extra revenue.


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How much is it costing the club? It's a new system, there's always complaints when a new system is rolled out. Hibs should have expected it.

Kojock
10-02-2016, 02:09 PM
Tin hat on here.. lets take Tincastle away in the cup... loyalty point scheme in operation, if my memory serves me right and no doubt someone will correct me if i'm wrong only 2 brackets were used something like:

over 300 and something points think that counts for about 500 -600 fans

over 180 point this accounts for about 8000 fighting over 3000 tickets

so fans with 180 probably got tickets for Tincastle and fans with more points didn't..

At the time of the Rangers away game the club stated that 800 fans had 411+, 4500 fans had 360+ and 7600 fans had 180+

Ozyhibby
10-02-2016, 02:09 PM
Okay but there are often lots of threads about stuff but when it all boils down to it, its the same person or few people that appear so often that people think in terms of "a lot". A lot of noise made by a few people can lead to an inflated view of the problem. Just look at the way hearts players made so much of a big deal about one tackle, the thing got blown out of proportion and three Hibs players were booked. I just feel there is too much made of the grumbles of a few when they appear on fan websites. It is healthy to be able to share views and opinions but a little bit of perspective would not go amiss when making wild claims about numbers

Grumbling away on here is fine, I do it myself occasionally. It's the people who are grumbling to the club that is the problem, and it is a very real problem. It is costing money and brings no extra money in.


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adhibs
10-02-2016, 02:11 PM
Its fine. No idea how so many people moan about

Green Badger
10-02-2016, 02:11 PM
I agree that it seems to be working well, and I think the majority may agree. You are always going to get a number of complaints (or misunderstandings) with any scheme or system.

Easter Road is approx. 50% full each week, and Hibs generally manage the ticketing for other games well. I don't think the huge demand for the derby was as a result of the open ticketing, it was a function of the great comeback on Sunday and folk wanting to witness us pump the yams. :thumbsup:

Where there are fans who want to sit together but are on different points, I do not see how that is the clubs fault.

Kojock
10-02-2016, 02:12 PM
Just what we needed, another loyalty points debate [emoji85][emoji6]

Personally I don't see the problem with it. It rewards fans that go home and away.

IMO points should be awarded for away games only, that way the people who attend the most away games get first dibs on away tickets.

CapitalGreen
10-02-2016, 02:14 PM
Exactly. It is costing the club money it can ill afford and it brings in zero extra revenue.


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These huge admin costs you keep referring to are probably covered by increased ticket sales from people ensuring they keep their loyalty points topped up. I know many people who have improved their attendance to ensure they are well placed to purchase tickets in the future.

easty
10-02-2016, 02:14 PM
IMO points should be awarded for away games only, that way the people who attend the most away games get first dibs on away tickets.

I'd guess you're in the minority in that thinking though.

Ozyhibby
10-02-2016, 02:15 PM
How much is it costing the club? It's a new system, there's always complaints when a new system is rolled out. Hibs should have expected it.

I have no idea of the figures, it was just mentioned to me that it was a problem. Remember the scheme has no benefit to Hibs as it is just a means of distributing away tickets. Any money spent administering it is money lost and now it is discouraging people from buying season tickets. That can't be good.
I have no personal interest. I got whatever tickets I needed through the old system and have managed through the new system as well.
I just want to see every penny Hibs make on the park.


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CapitalGreen
10-02-2016, 02:16 PM
IMO points should be awarded for away games only, that way the people who attend the most away games get first dibs on away tickets.

How does that financially benefit the club? It encourages fans to prioritise away attendance over home.

Ozyhibby
10-02-2016, 02:18 PM
These huge admin costs you keep referring to are probably covered by increased ticket sales from people ensuring they keep their loyalty points topped up. I know many people who have improved their attendance to ensure they are well placed to purchase tickets in the future.

There was no significant rise in our attendances since its launch and although there may be now, I think that may have more to do with performances.
The only way someone can keep ahead of season ticket holders is buy tickets for away games and that has no financial benefit for the club.


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happiehibbie
10-02-2016, 02:19 PM
If you think its working fine I would suggest you speak to someone within the club who has to deal with numerous complaints on a regular basis.


what is the complaint ?
"I dont have enough points "
" I cant get a ticket "

Etc ETC
simple buy a ST or contribute to HSL Or turn up to ER more often I personalty do both but thats my choice All of these points generate cash flow

I understand everyone has different circumstances but we must reward the people who have ticked the correct boxes

Brightside
10-02-2016, 02:19 PM
The Loyalty Scheme has caused a lot of in fighting between Hibs fans and I'm sure the Hibs board are fed up with all the grief received since its induction.

I would be all for scrapping the current scheme, get back to the drawing board and set up a brand new scheme. A working party should be set up where fans would be able to give their opinions and input into how the new scheme should work, how points should be awarded and to whom.

To me the aims are simple and there should be two schemes set up :

Loyalty scheme - Rewarding fans who attend away games. 1 point should be awarded for away games only. Only season ticket holders can register for the Loyalty Scheme. This would be done on a rolling system of say 15 games.

Reward Scheme (similar idea to a Tesco Clubcard) where fans giving money to the club, through the shop, and other Hibernian outlets are given points according to their spend. These points can be redeemed against further purchases in the Hibernian outlets.

I obviously don't have any idea of the feasibility of either scheme or the set up costs etc. but one thing I do know is the current scheme is not working.

Id rather keep what we have and take 10 points off every time someone complains. We get 9000 to most games. People should maybe do more to attend home games, supporting the home gate rather than worrying about Loyalty Points.

CapitalGreen
10-02-2016, 02:21 PM
There was no significant rise in our attendances since its launch and although there may be now, I think that may have more to do with performances.
The only way someone can keep ahead of season ticket holders is buy tickets for away games and that has no financial benefit for the club.


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Doesn't need to be significant, just needs to cover the admin costs which you "have no idea of".

Mikeystewart
10-02-2016, 02:21 PM
Every time someone emails the club or calls to complain about the loyalty points, one of the very small admin team at Hibs has to deal with it. Under the old system, nobody complained. Now they are dealing with questions and queries on an daily basis. It's stopping them from doing other things. And the loyalty point scheme doesn't sell extra tickets, it just distributes them. So any time spent administering the system costs Hibs money. Money that could be better spent on the park.


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I would very much disagree with this statement.

Our recent performances have caused an increase in walk up / half season ticket fans in an attempt to increase their loyalty points, other than fairer distribution this is one of the driving forces behind a loyalty scheme. If no loyalty point system was in place we would have small league crowds and then a massive cup final support full of part timers.

Ken
10-02-2016, 02:24 PM
If you think its working fine I would suggest you speak to someone within the club who has to deal with numerous complaints on a regular basis.

I think the main issue is more down to fans not understanding how it works.

As it stands, season ticket holders still have priority over non-season ticket holders. 180 points (credited in advance) for having a season ticket, maximum 180 points for attending 18 individual home league games paid per ticket.

I know it's probably been covered in other threads but what is the main complaint? Is it not sitting together with other season ticket holders, as that to me would be the only main issue and it has affected my group too, but only in 1 game (Sunday v Hearts).

The one thing I do disagree with is HSL members getting 100 additional points.


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Edited as its 10 points per home game not 5

Ozyhibby
10-02-2016, 02:26 PM
Doesn't need to be significant, just needs to cover the admin costs which you "have no idea of".

But I did say it was a problem because that's what I was told.
There may be people buying £22 tickets just for the extra 10 loyalty points but I have my doubts.
I don't think it's worth devaluing the season ticket for.


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Ozyhibby
10-02-2016, 02:27 PM
I think the main issue is more down to fans not understanding how it works.

As it stands, season ticket holders still have priority over non-season ticket holders. 180 points (credited in advance) for having a season ticket, maximum 90 points for attending 18 individual home league games.

I know it's probably been covered in other threads but what is the main complaint? Is it not sitting together with other season ticket holders, as that to me would be the only main issue and it has affected my group too, but only in 1 game (Sunday v Hearts).

The one thing I do disagree with is HSL members getting 100 additional points.


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It's 180 for attending 18 home games.


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BSEJVT
10-02-2016, 02:28 PM
There's been a lot of complaints from people who don't have enough points for big away games and from people who can't sit beside their mates because they don't have enough points.


I bet there has, but that's the whole point of a loyalty scheme is it not? To reward people who "contribute" more than those who don't?

Those that don't ( of which I am one ) have a choice up your contribution and improve your chances.

From my perspective the big error was in granting points to HSL members which I think has been really divisive.

Ozyhibby
10-02-2016, 02:33 PM
I bet there has, but that's the whole point of a loyalty scheme is it not? To reward people who "contribute" more than those who don't?

Those that don't ( of which I am one ) have a choice up your contribution and improve your chances.

From my perspective the big error was in granting points to HSL members which I think has been really divisive.

I'm not really arguing about the distribution of points itself although I do feel current season ticket holders should always be able to purchase tickets in the first round of sales as has always happened before, my point is more about the scheme itself costing the club too much money for no benefit to the club itself


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Kojock
10-02-2016, 02:37 PM
How does that financially benefit the club? It encourages fans to prioritise away attendance over home.

The scheme at the outset was not set up initially to benefit the club it was to reward the supporters who went to the most games. Hibs moved the goal posts with HSL points and IMO that was when all the complaints and arguments started.

Scouse Hibee
10-02-2016, 02:38 PM
The Loyalty Scheme has caused a lot of in fighting between Hibs fans and I'm sure the Hibs board are fed up with all the grief received since its induction.

I would be all for scrapping the current scheme, get back to the drawing board and set up a brand new scheme. A working party should be set up where fans would be able to give their opinions and input into how the new scheme should work, how points should be awarded and to whom.

To me the aims are simple and there should be two schemes set up :

Loyalty scheme - Rewarding fans who attend away games. 1 point should be awarded for away games only. Only season ticket holders can register for the Loyalty Scheme. This would be done on a rolling system of say 15 games.

Reward Scheme (similar idea to a Tesco Clubcard) where fans giving money to the club, through the shop, and other Hibernian outlets are given points according to their spend. These points can be redeemed against further purchases in the Hibernian outlets.

I obviously don't have any idea of the feasibility of either scheme or the set up costs etc. but one thing I do know is the current scheme is not working.

:confused: don't be daft

easty
10-02-2016, 02:39 PM
I'm not really arguing about the distribution of points itself although I do feel current season ticket holders should always be able to purchase tickets in the first round of sales as has always happened before, my point is more about the scheme itself costing the club too much money for no benefit to the club itself


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I disagree. We will have more season ticket holders than we will have tickets available, for some away games. The loyalty points scheme addresses that point.

And you keep saying it's costing the club too much money, but you don't know what it's costing the club. Obviously it'd be better to have zero costs, but if all it's costing is a few man hours then that's not really the end of the world, and Hibs should have accepted that this was going to be the case from the offset.

Ken
10-02-2016, 02:39 PM
It's 180 for attending 18 home games.


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Sorry, so it is!

Anyway a walk up fan would always have less than 180 points up until the last few weeks of a season and then they should rightly have the same number of points, given they have attended the same amount of games.


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CapitalGreen
10-02-2016, 02:41 PM
The scheme at the outset was not set up initially to benefit the club it was to reward the supporters who went to the most games. Hibs moved the goal posts with HSL points and IMO that was when all the complaints and arguments started.

The scheme does reward those supporters who go to the most games, they just rightly prioritise home attendance over away.

Read the initial launch material from the club. They stated at the time that points may be awarded for non-ticket purchases in the future. Nobody moved any goalposts.

easty
10-02-2016, 02:41 PM
The scheme at the outset was not set up initially to benefit the club it was to reward the supporters who went to the most games. Hibs moved the goal posts with HSL points and IMO that was when all the complaints and arguments started.

The HSL thing has been done to death, it's done now, we need to move on from it. Hibs aren't going to take the points back. I highly doubt they'll do the same again.

grammyb111
10-02-2016, 02:44 PM
At the time of the Rangers away game the club stated that 800 fans had 411+, 4500 fans had 360+ and 7600 fans had 180+

This is precisely why the loyalty scheme is a good thing. If I was one of those 800 (I'm not) I'd be mighty annoyed that someone who hasn't been to an away game all season (180 points) was able to get online in a scramble faster than me, so I miss out because they want to go to Ibrox but not Palmerston, Cappielow etc.

It appears the grumble is that in the past if you've had a season ticket you get the same priority as every other season ticket holder, but the above scenario shows exactly why that could be unfair. Now they've got a way of measuring attendance they can make it fair.

Instances like Ibrox, make the first threshold at the point that everyone is guaranteed a ticket. After two days or whatever you know how many are left and drop the threshold where folk are guaranteed at a lower level. Do that until you're at the point that it's a mad scramble for the last few tickets between folks all on the same point total. This kind of thing would only need to be done for a few games a season so not a burden.

For me a more valid gripe is where any cut-offs are made. Hearts away I got lucky to be in the first wave, but can fully understand why someone on 390 would be annoyed that someone on 180 gets an equal chance as them in the second wave. The same soul on 390 though can't say that's unfair then expect to have the same priority as someone with 450.

For most games it is utterly irrelevant, and I also have never not got a ticket when I wanted one, but rewarding loyal customers can only be a good thing for me.

hibee-boys
10-02-2016, 02:49 PM
These loyalty point debates make me chuckle. There are probably a handful of games a year, I'm thinking Rangers/Hearts away, when loyalty points are even needed. We play in front on a half empty stadium every 2 weeks and very rarely sell out away allocations. You'd think thousands of hibs fans were missing out on games every week! I sincerely hope the loyalty points system is required more in the future but very much doubt it.

Kojock
10-02-2016, 02:51 PM
The HSL thing has been done to death, it's done now, we need to move on from it. Hibs aren't going to take the points back. I highly doubt they'll do the same again.

Watch this space !!!

Brightside
10-02-2016, 02:51 PM
IMO points should be awarded for away games only, that way the people who attend the most away games get first dibs on away tickets.

Why are so many fans obsessed with giving other clubs money.

BSEJVT
10-02-2016, 02:52 PM
I'm not really arguing about the distribution of points itself although I do feel current season ticket holders should always be able to purchase tickets in the first round of sales as has always happened before, my point is more about the scheme itself costing the club too much money for no benefit to the club itself


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Thanks Ozy

I don't think you were specifically replying to my point?

I take your point re the costs, but my counter argument would be that the loyalty points issue has created a debate around the issue and an awareness that "points make prizes" and anything that promotes that understanding and engagement is worthwhile. I personally have no doubt that its increased attendances.

Neither I nor you can prove that the benefits outweigh the costs or vice versa so its a moot point.

Your point re Season tickets is an interesting one and not one I think I can agree with.

Surely any loyalty scheme that has evolved beyond its inception years rewards long term commitment, I don't like the idea that someone who has loyally followed Hibs for donkeys years but for whatever reason doesn't have a current season ticket is treated less favourably than someone who has bought his first ticket.

My final point on this thread is that this issue is just another excuse for folk who want to moan at the club to have a moan.

AFAIK few who wanted a ticket for anywhere haven't got one ivo loyalty points. Sure a few guys haven't sat with their mates, but these would likely be the same guys who pitched up late to buy tickets in a limited general sale and ended up sitting elsewhere then.

Honest to god there are folk on here that would complain if Hibs won the Champions league because the colour of green was wrong on the ribbons or because they wanted to see Hibs win it in Paris not Madrid.

marinello59
10-02-2016, 02:52 PM
There was no significant rise in our attendances since its launch and although there may be now, I think that may have more to do with performances.
The only way someone can keep ahead of season ticket holders is buy tickets for away games and that has no financial benefit for the club.


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A loyalty scheme was talked about on here for years as a way to reward those fans who could not put out the cash for a season ticket up front but still attended games at Easter Road on a regular basis. it would give them a much bigger chance of getting tickets for Away games when demand outstripped supply. At some point it became something else entirely, a way of guaranteeing a relatively small number of fans tickets for those games. That's great for those of us who benefit from it, I am one, but it isn't going to see regular walk ups chances for tickets increased by much.
I'd keep the scheme but ditch the points given to away games. We should be doing more to fill our own ground.

Ozyhibby
10-02-2016, 02:54 PM
This is precisely why the loyalty scheme is a good thing. If I was one of those 800 (I'm not) I'd be mighty annoyed that someone who hasn't been to an away game all season (180 points) was able to get online in a scramble faster than me, so I miss out because they want to go to Ibrox but not Palmerston, Cappielow etc.

It appears the grumble is that in the past if you've had a season ticket you get the same priority as every other season ticket holder, but the above scenario shows exactly why that could be unfair. Now they've got a way of measuring attendance they can make it fair.

Instances like Ibrox, make the first threshold at the point that everyone is guaranteed a ticket. After two days or whatever you know how many are left and drop the threshold where folk are guaranteed at a lower level. Do that until you're at the point that it's a mad scramble for the last few tickets between folks all on the same point total. This kind of thing would only need to be done for a few games a season so not a burden.

For me a more valid gripe is where any cut-offs are made. Hearts away I got lucky to be in the first wave, but can fully understand why someone on 390 would be annoyed that someone on 180 gets an equal chance as them in the second wave. The same soul on 390 though can't say that's unfair then expect to have the same priority as someone with 450.

For most games it is utterly irrelevant, and I also have never not got a ticket when I wanted one, but rewarding loyal customers can only be a good thing for me.

I don't disagree with any off your points on fairness. The new system might be fairer but has the unintended consequence of discouraging season ticket sales.
Lots of people buy season tickets even though it makes no financial sense to do so (they miss games due to work, family etc). One of the reasons they did so was that it gave them a chance at tickets for big games. Take that away and they may stop buying their season ticket. There is evidence on here that that is what some people are considering.
We may achieve a fairer system while at the same time costing the club money.
I'm not trying to be arsey here, just pointing out what could be an unintended consequence.


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BSEJVT
10-02-2016, 02:55 PM
A loyalty scheme was talked about on here for years as a way to reward those fans who could not put out the cash for a season ticket up front but still attended games at Easter Road on a regular basis. it would give them a much bigger chance of getting tickets for Away games when demand outstripped supply. At some point it became something else entirely, a way of guaranteeing a relatively small number of fans tickets for those games. That's great for those of us who benefit from it, I am one, but it isn't going to see regular walk ups chances for tickets increased by much.
I'd keep the scheme but ditch the points given to away games. We should be doing more to fill our own ground.

This thread in a nutshell encapsulates the problems the club have with the issue.

One person wants only away ticket purchases to count another only home purchases.

There is merit in both arguments, but either way the club are on a hiding to nothing.

Ozyhibby
10-02-2016, 02:56 PM
This thread in a nutshell encapsulates the problems the club have with the issue.

One person wants only away ticket purchases to count another only home purchases.

There is merit in both arguments, but either way the club are on a hiding to nothing.

And it's costing the club money dealing with it.


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Borderhibbie76
10-02-2016, 02:59 PM
Nothing wrong with it...just fans who have now missed out a ticket for Tuesday that are complaining...not meant as an uber fan comment but those of us who have stood and got soaked at the likes of alloa and cowdenbeath these last 2 seasons are rewarded under the loyalty scheme...thats the way it should be im afraid.

Ozyhibby
10-02-2016, 03:01 PM
Nothing wrong with it...just fans who have now missed out a ticket for Tuesday that are complaining...not meant as an uber fan comment but those of us who have stood and got soaked at the likes of alloa and cowdenbeath these last 2 seasons are rewarded under the loyalty scheme...thats the way it should be im afraid.

You only needed 1 loyalty point to get a ticket for Tuesday. [emoji23]



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Kojock
10-02-2016, 03:02 PM
The scheme does reward those supporters who go to the most games, they just rightly prioritise home attendance over away.

Read the initial launch material from the club. They stated at the time that points may be awarded for non-ticket purchases in the future. Nobody moved any goalposts.

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/5241

Doesn't mention anything like that at the initial launch.

Ozyhibby
10-02-2016, 03:05 PM
http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/5241

Doesn't mention anything like that at the initial launch.

Read it again.

The Club may also run special promotions for additional bonus points throughout the season.

It's there in black and white.


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Borderhibbie76
10-02-2016, 03:05 PM
You only needed 1 loyalty point to get a ticket for Tuesday. [emoji23]



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Could be wrong mate but was it not 90 or over??

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CapitalGreen
10-02-2016, 03:05 PM
http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/5241

Doesn't mention anything like that at the initial launch.

You're not very good at reading are you?

------

Will points be awarded for other purchases I make?

The Club is looking at potentially linking other purchases to the loyalty scheme in the future. This may include retail parts of the Club but the priority just now is to launch the scheme with ticketing.

CapitalGreen
10-02-2016, 03:07 PM
And it's costing the club money dealing with it.


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Do you know how much the club is saving by fans pre-purchasing tickets and printing at home to ensure they receive loyalty points instead of PATG?

Kojock
10-02-2016, 03:08 PM
I don't disagree with any off your points on fairness. The new system might be fairer but has the unintended consequence of discouraging season ticket sales.
Lots of people buy season tickets even though it makes no financial sense to do so (they miss games due to work, family etc). One of the reasons they did so was that it gave them a chance at tickets for big games. Take that away and they may stop buying their season ticket. There is evidence on here that that is what some people are considering.
We may achieve a fairer system while at the same time costing the club money.
I'm not trying to be arsey here, just pointing out what could be an unintended consequence.


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Re the bit in bold, so a season ticket holder who decides that he/she wanted to attend their first away match at Tynecastle last weekend should get the same chance to get a ticket as a supporter who has been to Cowdenbeath, Alloa and Morton in the pouring rain and freezing cold. ??

lapsedhibee
10-02-2016, 03:10 PM
You only needed 1 loyalty point to get a ticket for Tuesday. [emoji23]




Could be wrong mate but was it not 90 or over??



Could also be wrong but I don't think you needed any - you just had to be on the database.

Kojock
10-02-2016, 03:11 PM
You're not very good at reading are you?

------

Will points be awarded for other purchases I make?

The Club is looking at potentially linking other purchases to the loyalty scheme in the future. This may include retail parts of the Club but the priority just now is to launch the scheme with ticketing.

Doh !! read that twice to. Apologies for that.

Nakedmanoncrack
10-02-2016, 03:11 PM
It should definitely have a rotational element - in other words previously earned points drop off after a while, e.g. like Scotland supporters club which works with 1 point for each of last 10 away games, so the point from 10th game always drops off when there's another away game.

Ken
10-02-2016, 03:14 PM
If a supporter doesn't renew their season ticket because they're not in the top bracket then more fool them, because come next season they'll be even further down the pecking order.

As someone said previously it only effects about 3 or 4 games a season.


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Brightside
10-02-2016, 03:15 PM
Re the bit in bold, so a season ticket holder who decides that he/she wanted to attend their first away match at Tynecastle last weekend should get the same chance to get a ticket as a supporter who has been to Cowdenbeath, Alloa and Morton in the pouring rain and freezing cold. ??

100% yes! Why would it be otherwise?

Kojock
10-02-2016, 03:17 PM
It should definitely have a rotational element - in other words previously earned points drop off after a while, e.g. like Scotland supporters club which works with 1 point for each of last 10 away games, so the point from 10th game always drops off when there's another away game.

I'm not in the Scotland Supporters Club so don't know how it works but is there not a possibility of people buying away tickets to keep their points total up and not actually attend the game.

BSEJVT
10-02-2016, 03:18 PM
And it's costing the club money dealing with it.


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I think that any business that focuses purely on the costs of doing something and doesn't take into account the income and other benefits of the service or product that is creating those costs whether they are tangible or intangible is completely missing the point.

The scheme is still in its relative infancy and already people are becoming more knowledgeable about it.

The teething problems and constraints the scheme has will soon be business as usual and any cost implications will reduce considerably when that happens

Whether people like it or not it is here to stay as any withdrawal would be unthinkable.

Time for folk to get behind it and stop mumping.

If increasing age has taught me anything it is the need to accept what you cannot hope to change and focus (as you do through HSL Ozy) in influencing things you can change.

Anything else is wasted energy

Kojock
10-02-2016, 03:20 PM
100% yes! Why would it be otherwise?

Then if that's the case we should scrap the loyalty scheme and go back to the season ticket free for all.

Hibernia&Alba
10-02-2016, 03:22 PM
This is precisely why the loyalty scheme is a good thing. If I was one of those 800 (I'm not) I'd be mighty annoyed that someone who hasn't been to an away game all season (180 points) was able to get online in a scramble faster than me, so I miss out because they want to go to Ibrox but not Palmerston, Cappielow etc.

It appears the grumble is that in the past if you've had a season ticket you get the same priority as every other season ticket holder, but the above scenario shows exactly why that could be unfair. Now they've got a way of measuring attendance they can make it fair.

Instances like Ibrox, make the first threshold at the point that everyone is guaranteed a ticket. After two days or whatever you know how many are left and drop the threshold where folk are guaranteed at a lower level. Do that until you're at the point that it's a mad scramble for the last few tickets between folks all on the same point total. This kind of thing would only need to be done for a few games a season so not a burden.

For me a more valid gripe is where any cut-offs are made. Hearts away I got lucky to be in the first wave, but can fully understand why someone on 390 would be annoyed that someone on 180 gets an equal chance as them in the second wave. The same soul on 390 though can't say that's unfair then expect to have the same priority as someone with 450.

For most games it is utterly irrelevant, and I also have never not got a ticket when I wanted one, but rewarding loyal customers can only be a good thing for me.

Excellent post :top marks

Like you, I think it could be tweaked a wee bit in terms of how the points threshold was set for one or two games, but overall it's about ensuring that those who have attended most matches can get tickets when demand is very high, which is only fair. Such small issues are no reason to abolish the whole scheme, IMHO.

Moulin Yarns
10-02-2016, 03:24 PM
I'm not in the Scotland Supporters Club so don't know how it works but is there not a possibility of people buying away tickets to keep their points total up and not actually attend the game.

Simple question, have you done that?

I don't see the point in buying ticket for, let's say, Alloa and not then go to support the team. All you have done is given another club some money for no personal gain. A bit like buying a £300 flight to New York to get Air Miles so you can fly to London for nothing

BSEJVT
10-02-2016, 03:26 PM
Then if that's the case we should scrap the loyalty scheme and go back to the season ticket free for all.

No we shouldn't

Those that have season tickets and go away will end up with more points and get first dibs on tickets before those who either just have season tickets or just go away.

The effect of the 100 point HSL bonus will dissipate over a short period and those that go most will get first chance on any limited ticket events.

What is remotely unfair about that?

Brightside
10-02-2016, 03:30 PM
Then if that's the case we should scrap the loyalty scheme and go back to the season ticket free for all.

What you would like is an Away Supporters Only Loyalty Scheme..... Which has NO financial benefit to OUR club but plenty benefit to all other clubs. That makes no sense.

Kojock
10-02-2016, 03:36 PM
Simple question, have you done that?

I don't see the point in buying ticket for, let's say, Alloa and not then go to support the team. All you have done is given another club some money for no personal gain. A bit like buying a £300 flight to New York to get Air Miles so you can fly to London for nothing

Not so far, but if I was unable to go to Alloa but I knew I needed the points to guarantee me a ticket for Ibrox then yes I would.

grammyb111
10-02-2016, 03:42 PM
I don't disagree with any off your points on fairness. The new system might be fairer but has the unintended consequence of discouraging season ticket sales.
Lots of people buy season tickets even though it makes no financial sense to do so (they miss games due to work, family etc). One of the reasons they did so was that it gave them a chance at tickets for big games. Take that away and they may stop buying their season ticket. There is evidence on here that that is what some people are considering.
We may achieve a fairer system while at the same time costing the club money.
I'm not trying to be arsey here, just pointing out what could be an unintended consequence.


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I get your point, I miss quite a few games each season, it certainly makes no financial sense for me to have a season ticket, but I do because I want to support the club. My commitment amounts to a season ticket, a cup top up and 4-5 away games, but I don't get annoyed (nor do I feel I'd have any right to) if I miss out on a chance to get a ticket for Ibrox because someone else has a greater commitment.

Those odd big games though are exactly that, ones where (like Hearts) even season ticket holders had a mad scramble for tickets, there is no guarantee they'd get one.

If we were to weigh up season ticket holders who buy a ticket for the extra chance of getting a big away game ticket (I can't see there being that many, but clearly will be some) vs walk-ups who go to an extra game because it'll move them into a higher wave, I'd imagine there would be more of the latter. From there I understand your conclusion that priority one is ST holders and priority two is points bands below ST. If we had points for walk-ups only then of course it's unlikely that the 'home and away' fans would be put off, it's what they do on a Saturday, but there is now the facility to reward that hard core.

I won't be the same for everyone of course, but if we balance money lost because of the odd season ticket holder that buys one to have a better chance of tickets for away games vs keeping your most loyal fans/customers happy then I'd plump for the latter. As you said, it is a fairer system, so if I was one of the 'buy ST for a chance of a big away game' supporters I wouldn't blame Hibs for being fair and looking after the most loyal. If I felt there were many of those 'better chance' holders saying they wouldn't renew my opinion would probably be different...

Ozyhibby
10-02-2016, 03:44 PM
I think that any business that focuses purely on the costs of doing something and doesn't take into account the income and other benefits of the service or product that is creating those costs whether they are tangible or intangible is completely missing the point.

The scheme is still in its relative infancy and already people are becoming more knowledgeable about it.

The teething problems and constraints the scheme has will soon be business as usual and any cost implications will reduce considerably when that happens

Whether people like it or not it is here to stay as any withdrawal would be unthinkable.

Time for folk to get behind it and stop mumping.

If increasing age has taught me anything it is the need to accept what you cannot hope to change and focus (as you do through HSL Ozy) in influencing things you can change.

Anything else is wasted energy

I don't accept that it can't be changed.
[emoji3]
I honestly have no probs with the fairness of the system or the awarding of points for other things.
I really just don't want people not renewing season tickets because of it.


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Kojock
10-02-2016, 03:45 PM
What you would like is an Away Supporters Only Loyalty Scheme..... Which has NO financial benefit to OUR club but plenty benefit to all other clubs. That makes no sense.

Any walk up fan at ER is always going to struggle to get a ticket for an away game. Season ticket holders who don't go to away games will struggle to get a ticket for an away game where there is a limited amount of tickets ie Dumbarton and Ibrox. So IMO the loyalty scheme has little or no financial benefit to Hibs.

Onion
10-02-2016, 03:47 PM
The one thing the club needs to do is review the scheme in light of the last few oversubscribed games to see if it is meeting the objectives and satisfying the majority of the fans the club is looking to incentivise. That could be done is lots of ways and a good project for the Supporter Directors to take a lead in. Taking the views of those who have benefited from the scheme as evidence of success would be silly. It's those who are in the middle ground (loyal but devalued) that need to be assessed or convinced of the scheme's merits.

The very last thing they want is a huge admin burden and lots of unhappy (loyal) supporters. At the end of the review, make any tweaks needed and issue a statement of findings. You may well find that it is a tiny vocal minority that are unhappy, but who knows.

Ozyhibby
10-02-2016, 03:54 PM
It just occurred to me that another cost the club will now be taking on is the admin of away tickets. When I go to away games I usually pay at the gate. Now that loyalty points are on offer, I'll buy from Hibs and get them to post to me. The admin cost for that transaction has moved from the away team to Hibs. Hibs get no money for selling away tickets.


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B.H.F.C
10-02-2016, 03:55 PM
What you would like is an Away Supporters Only Loyalty Scheme..... Which has NO financial benefit to OUR club but plenty benefit to all other clubs. That makes no sense.

It's not about financial benefit to the club. If it was they'd never have introduced it. It's about rewarding their most loyal supporters with the opportunity to have first dibs on tickets when their is a limited supply.

Typical of football these days that everything comes back to finance. What about the benefit of the support the players get from committed people who stand in the pouring rain at pishy we places like Alloa on a Saturday afternoon in December or whatever?

lucky
10-02-2016, 03:56 PM
The two areas where the loyalty points need looked at in my opinion are;
PATG away games, surely keeping your ticket stubb and getting the points added at a later date could work.
The points fresh hold for tickets release. The second grouping at the PBS was too big.

As for HSL points, I would give 100 points per year on the bases that you must pay your £225 each year. As these fans are putting extra cash into Hibs in the same way those who bought a cup top for £50 were rewarded with points for every home cup game.

Sudds_1
10-02-2016, 04:04 PM
I get your point, I miss quite a few games each season, it certainly makes no financial sense for me to have a season ticket, but I do because I want to support the club. My commitment amounts to a season ticket, a cup top up and 4-5 away games, but I don't get annoyed (nor do I feel I'd have any right to) if I miss out on a chance to get a ticket for Ibrox because someone else has a greater commitment.

Those odd big games though are exactly that, ones where (like Hearts) even season ticket holders had a mad scramble for tickets, there is no guarantee they'd get one.

If we were to weigh up season ticket holders who buy a ticket for the extra chance of getting a big away game ticket (I can't see there being that many, but clearly will be some) vs walk-ups who go to an extra game because it'll move them into a higher wave, I'd imagine there would be more of the latter. From there I understand your conclusion that priority one is ST holders and priority two is points bands below ST. If we had points for walk-ups only then of course it's unlikely that the 'home and away' fans would be put off, it's what they do on a Saturday, but there is now the facility to reward that hard core.

I won't be the same for everyone of course, but if we balance money lost because of the odd season ticket holder that buys one to have a better chance of tickets for away games vs keeping your most loyal fans/customers happy then I'd plump for the latter. As you said, it is a fairer system, so if I was one of the 'buy ST for a chance of a big away game' supporters I wouldn't blame Hibs for being fair and looking after the most loyal. If I felt there were many of those 'better chance' holders saying they wouldn't renew my opinion would probably be different...

See, that's he point for me......define commitment. I'm like you....season ticket every year, plus cup top up, plus away games when I can. But circumstances mean I cant use it to its fullest. But all putting much needed cash into my club a point in the early year when they need it. Is that showing less commitment than others? In my view its demonstrating commitment by putting my hand in my pocket before the season starts............. and having faith in my team .

Others might call that LOYALTY? :-)

Lancs Harp
10-02-2016, 04:04 PM
It just occurred to me that another cost the club will now be taking on is the admin of away tickets. When I go to away games I usually pay at the gate. Now that loyalty points are on offer, I'll buy from Hibs and get them to post to me. The admin cost for that transaction has moved from the away team to Hibs. Hibs get no money for selling away tickets.


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Not sure if its the same in Scotland as England but in England but the away team gets 10% of the ticket money it sells

Pete
10-02-2016, 04:05 PM
Its fine. No idea how so many people moan about

:agree:

marinello59
10-02-2016, 04:14 PM
The two areas where the loyalty points need looked at in my opinion are;
PATG away games, surely keeping your ticket stubb and getting the points added at a later date could work.
The points fresh hold for tickets release. The second grouping at the PBS was too big.

As for HSL points, I would give 100 points per year on the bases that you must pay your £225 each year. As these fans are putting extra cash into Hibs in the same way those who bought a cup top for £50 were reward with points for every home cup game.

What's to stop people handing away stubs to others to gain points? Ive had to pay for a couple of away games at the gate this season for us because it is sometimes difficult to buy in advance, especially for out of towners. That's just the way the cookie crumble though.
Then again I have already said I'd ditch points for away games altogether to allow those who actually pay at our gate to benefit most from this scheme.
Being guaranteed tickets for the big games is a nice wee perk and I am taking full advantage but looking at the bigger picture, why should a minority benefit at the expense of those who pay our own club money on a regular basis? Unless they buy season tickets they can never reach the top group for tickets.
I got loyalty points for my attendance at both Ibrox and the PBS. Surely getting a ticket was the reward, why on earth should I have been moved even further in front of people desperate for a ticket for those games?

My_Wife_Camille
10-02-2016, 04:19 PM
The more games you attend, the more chance you have of getting tickets for in demand games.

Seriously, what is the problem?

I've read tonnes of these threads and all the complaints stem from one thing, people complaining because they're not getting their own way.

The system works exactly how it's supposed to. If you want more points, go to more games. If you can't/won't do that then tough, the ones that do go every week shouldn't have to be put at a disadvantage because of that.

The only change I would make is removing the term 'Loyalty' because people twist the word in all ways in order to make their point. Call them something simple like Attendace Points and award them for attending games only and remove all doubt for those claiming that buying a mug from the club store should somehow entitle them to priority tickets.

SteveHFC
10-02-2016, 04:27 PM
The more games you attend, the more chance you have of getting tickets for in demand games.

Seriously, what is the problem?

I've read tonnes of these threads and all the complaints stem from one thing, people complaining because they're not getting their own way.

The system works exactly how it's supposed to. If you want more points, go to more games. If you can't/won't do that then tough, the ones that do to every shouldn't have to be put at a disadvantage because of that.

The only change I would make is removing the term 'Loyalty' because people twist the word in all ways in order to make their point. Call them something simple like Attendace Points and award them for attending games only and remove all doubt for those claiming that buying a mug from the club store should somehow entitle them to priority tickets.

:top marks

CentreLine
10-02-2016, 04:35 PM
It just occurred to me that another cost the club will now be taking on is the admin of away tickets. When I go to away games I usually pay at the gate. Now that loyalty points are on offer, I'll buy from Hibs and get them to post to me. The admin cost for that transaction has moved from the away team to Hibs. Hibs get no money for selling away tickets.


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Fair enough but if the club feel that the "foot-fall" of supporters buying from the club is worth it for the community spirit it can generate then it is essentially cheap advertising. The club are working hard to connect with supporters. They will not always get it right but the effort is certainly being put in. One such effort, you would immagine, is to connect with supporters through direct sales.

marinello59
10-02-2016, 04:37 PM
The more games you attend, the more chance you have of getting tickets for in demand games.

Seriously, what is the problem?

I've read tonnes of these threads and all the complaints stem from one thing, people complaining because they're not getting their own way.


The system works perfectly for me. I just like moaning anyway though. :greengrin

21.05.2016
10-02-2016, 04:42 PM
The more games you attend, the more chance you have of getting tickets for in demand games.

Seriously, what is the problem?

I've read tonnes of these threads and all the complaints stem from one thing, people complaining because they're not getting their own way.

The system works exactly how it's supposed to. If you want more points, go to more games. If you can't/won't do that then tough, the ones that do go every week shouldn't have to be put at a disadvantage because of that.

The only change I would make is removing the term 'Loyalty' because people twist the word in all ways in order to make their point. Call them something simple like Attendace Points and award them for attending games only and remove all doubt for those claiming that buying a mug from the club store should somehow entitle them to priority tickets.

I 100% agree. I think, although not completely perfect, it is the best and fairest way IMO.

lucky
10-02-2016, 04:51 PM
What's to stop people handing away stubs to others to gain points? Ive had to pay for a couple of away games at the gate this season for us because it is sometimes difficult to buy in advance, especially for out of towners. That's just the way the cookie crumble though.
Then again I have already said I'd ditch points for away games altogether to allow those who actually pay at our gate to benefit most from this scheme.
Being guaranteed tickets for the big games is a nice wee perk and I am taking full advantage but looking at the bigger picture, why should a minority benefit at the expense of those who pay our own club money on a regular basis? Unless they buy season tickets they can never reach the top group for tickets.
I got loyalty points for my attendance at both Ibrox and the PBS. Surely getting a ticket was the reward, why on earth should I have been moved even further in front of people desperate for a ticket for those games?

As Hibs issue tickets at ER they will or could keep track of who got what ticket then only those who PATG for the away game would get the points.

It's a good point you make with regards to Ibrox & PBS, but is the alternative not to giving points for away games that sell? Just think that could get even more complicated.

Nakedmanoncrack
10-02-2016, 05:04 PM
I'm not in the Scotland Supporters Club so don't know how it works but is there not a possibility of people buying away tickets to keep their points total up and not actually attend the game.

It does happen, but not as much as some people make out.

NAE NOOKIE
10-02-2016, 05:21 PM
The scheme does reward those supporters who go to the most games, they just rightly prioritise home attendance over away.

Read the initial launch material from the club. They stated at the time that points may be awarded for non-ticket purchases in the future. Nobody moved any goalposts.

Nobody had an issue with that because not unreasonably they would have been under the impression that points would be awarded on a fair and equitable basis ...... It doesn't matter a toss where the goals are if you're not allowed to play in the first place.

Awarding loyalty points to HSL members but not independent buyers is just like awarding loyalty points to fans who go to away games by bus and none to fans who travel by car ....... anybody who doesn't get that doesn't understand basic logic, never mind fairness.

wookie70
10-02-2016, 05:35 PM
Re the bit in bold, so a season ticket holder who decides that he/she wanted to attend their first away match at Tynecastle last weekend should get the same chance to get a ticket as a supporter who has been to Cowdenbeath, Alloa and Morton in the pouring rain and freezing cold. ??

I think the awarding of the points is pretty much spot on. If it will discourage season ticket sales then add a bonus for season tickets over attending all home game patg. There are a couple of issues for me.

The HSL grinds as loyalty to me, when it comes to football, is about putting your bum on a seat not your hand in you pocket. My other issue is the way the bands for tickets have been arranged. First derby was ridiculous imo. Someone who got 180 points last season and hadn't went to a game home or away this season had equal rights to someone who bought STs both years and attended a good few other games. That seems silly to me and the second tranche could have been for those with over 330 points or similar and it would still have sold out easily.

The semi final was well handled as was the game at Ibrox. Restricted time scale has came into play for the replay so I think they get pass marks for that.

All in all I think it has been a good thing. In time I think it will provide exactly what it was intended to provide - Loyal fans getting tickets for premium games. The replay show what can happen and hopefully gives us a glimse into the future. It also proves the value of a current ST regardless of loyalty points.

MWHIBBIES
10-02-2016, 05:38 PM
Current system is just fine thanks.

CapitalGreen
10-02-2016, 05:40 PM
Nobody had an issue with that because not unreasonably they would have been under the impression that points would be awarded on a fair and equitable basis ...... It doesn't matter a toss where the goals are if you're not allowed to play in the first place.

Awarding loyalty points to HSL members but not independent buyers is just like awarding loyalty points to fans who go to away games by bus and none to fans who travel by car ....... anybody who doesn't get that doesn't understand basic logic, never mind fairness.

Hibs award 10 points to people who pre-purchase a home ticket but 0 points to those that buy at the ticket pods. Hibs have used the allocation of points to drive consumer behaviour in their preferred direction.

The HSL loyalty points was available to all, nobody was prevented from taking advantage of this.

Billy Whizz
10-02-2016, 05:45 PM
Think of the bun right next season when Budgie gives us 2,000 tickets for Tynie. Keep going to the games and renewing your season ticket will be so important

Ozyhibby
10-02-2016, 05:49 PM
Think of the bun right next season when Budgie gives us 2,000 tickets for Tynie. Keep going to the games and renewing your season ticket will be so important

And sign up for HSL Billy. [emoji6]


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Ozyhibby
10-02-2016, 05:50 PM
Think of the bun right next season when Budgie gives us 2,000 tickets for Tynie. Keep going to the games and renewing your season ticket will be so important

Actually, with the policing issues they are having I think they may still give us the whole stand.


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Billy Whizz
10-02-2016, 05:51 PM
And sign up for HSL Billy. [emoji6]


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And that too

Billy Whizz
10-02-2016, 05:52 PM
Actually, with the policing issues they are having I think they may still give us the whole stand.


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Don't think 13,000 season ticket holders will fit into 3 stands

blackpoolhibs
10-02-2016, 05:52 PM
What's to stop people handing away stubs to others to gain points? Ive had to pay for a couple of away games at the gate this season for us because it is sometimes difficult to buy in advance, especially for out of towners. That's just the way the cookie crumble though.
Then again I have already said I'd ditch points for away games altogether to allow those who actually pay at our gate to benefit most from this scheme.
Being guaranteed tickets for the big games is a nice wee perk and I am taking full advantage but looking at the bigger picture, why should a minority benefit at the expense of those who pay our own club money on a regular basis? Unless they buy season tickets they can never reach the top group for tickets.
I got loyalty points for my attendance at both Ibrox and the PBS. Surely getting a ticket was the reward, why on earth should I have been moved even further in front of people desperate for a ticket for those games?


Exactly. :top marks

Ozyhibby
10-02-2016, 05:54 PM
Don't think 13,000 season ticket holders will fit into 3 stands

They may have to make those roseburn season tickets cat B only for a reduced price?


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Super_JMcGinn
10-02-2016, 05:58 PM
What's to stop people handing away stubs to others to gain points? Ive had to pay for a couple of away games at the gate this season for us because it is sometimes difficult to buy in advance, especially for out of towners. That's just the way the cookie crumble though.
Then again I have already said I'd ditch points for away games altogether to allow those who actually pay at our gate to benefit most from this scheme.
Being guaranteed tickets for the big games is a nice wee perk and I am taking full advantage but looking at the bigger picture, why should a minority benefit at the expense of those who pay our own club money on a regular basis? Unless they buy season tickets they can never reach the top group for tickets.
I got loyalty points for my attendance at both Ibrox and the PBS. Surely getting a ticket was the reward, why on earth should I have been moved even further in front of people desperate for a ticket for those games?
Pretty much where I stand on it :agree:

Billy Whizz
10-02-2016, 06:07 PM
There is something in the fact that the rich get richer. Maybe don't give loyalty points for Tynie/Ibrox. Means that fans that go to all the smaller grounds are still top points earners and will get 1st dibs

jodjam
10-02-2016, 06:13 PM
Think of the bun right next season when Budgie gives us 2,000 tickets for Tynie. Keep going to the games and renewing your season ticket will be so important

Your point is correct for the ones near the top of the loyalty points who will need to renew to stay there but for myself (1 point short of top group) then a reduced capacity will mean I have little chance.

BSEJVT
10-02-2016, 06:36 PM
I don't accept that it can't be changed.
[emoji3]
I honestly have no probs with the fairness of the system or the awarding of points for other things.
I really just don't want people not renewing season tickets because of it.


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Not the point I was making

You were complaining re costs, point I was making is they are a fact of life and benefits outweigh IMO costs.

They should consult support on what changes they would like and go with consensus view

NAE NOOKIE
10-02-2016, 07:34 PM
Hibs award 10 points to people who pre-purchase a home ticket but 0 points to those that buy at the ticket pods. Hibs have used the allocation of points to drive consumer behaviour in their preferred direction.

The HSL loyalty points was available to all, nobody was prevented from taking advantage of this.

Your first point is true, but I would imagine its because there is no computer facility in the pods to allocate points with ... I still don't see why ticket stubbs from the pods cant be exchanged at the TO at a later date for points, something Hibs could look at in the future perhaps.

What you are saying with your second point is that people who bought shares independently, if they want to achieve parity with HSL members, should double their input to the club ... by that logic its not unreasonable then to only award loyalty points to HSL members who first buy shares privately as well.

The fact that folk can join HSL is entirely beside the point .... I wont be treated differently from my fellow supporters by the club when my input has been exactly the same. Mind you, think of the money we could make if Hibbies without an EH postcode had to pay double for tickets, perhaps the logic Hibs have applied here could be extended to that.

CapitalGreen
10-02-2016, 08:10 PM
Your first point is true, but I would imagine its because there is no computer facility in the pods to allocate points with ... I still don't see why ticket stubbs from the pods cant be exchanged at the TO at a later date for points, something Hibs could look at in the future perhaps.

What you are saying with your second point is that people who bought shares independently, if they want to achieve parity with HSL members, should double their input to the club ... by that logic its not unreasonable then to only award loyalty points to HSL members who first buy shares privately as well.

The fact that folk can join HSL is entirely beside the point .... I wont be treated differently from my fellow supporters by the club when my input has been exactly the same. Mind you, think of the money we could make if Hibbies without an EH postcode had to pay double for tickets, perhaps the logic Hibs have applied here could be extended to that.

You have already had it explained to you multiple times how HSL membership differs from owning shares in Hibernian FC. If you don't understand the difference or choose to ignore it then that's your problem.

To reverse the argument. Why as a HSL member do I not receive a copy of the annual accounts and an invite to the AGM? Why does my HSL membership not entitle me to a vote on matters raised at AGMs? Why can't I sell my HSL membership on? Where is my share certificate?

As a HSL member I demand the same rights and benefits of a shareholder!

... oh wait, I knowingly signed up for something different.

Scouse Hibee
10-02-2016, 08:14 PM
Hibs award 10 points to people who pre-purchase a home ticket but 0 points to those that buy at the ticket pods. Hibs have used the allocation of points to drive consumer behaviour in their preferred direction.

The HSL loyalty points was available to all, nobody was prevented from taking advantage of this.

Of course they have, one of the main points of any loyalty scheme is to drive or steer consumer behaviour in the direction that the business wants them to go. I have no problem with the loyalty scheme and don't think it needs to go back to the drawing board either, in fact I think that stance would be ridiculous to the extreme.

lucky
10-02-2016, 08:15 PM
You have already had it explained to you multiple times how HSL membership differs from owning shares in Hibernian FC. If you don't understand the difference or choose to ignore it then that's your problem.

To reverse the argument. Why as a HSL member do I not receive a copy of the annual accounts and an invite to the AGM? Why does my HSL membership not entitle me to a vote on matters raised at AGMs? Why can't I sell my HSL membership on? Where is my share certificate?

As a HSL member I demand the same rights and benefits of a shareholder!

... oh wait, I knowingly signed up for something different.

Spot on 100% correct

CapitalGreen
10-02-2016, 08:16 PM
Of course they have, one of the main points of any loyalty scheme is to drive or steer consumer behaviour in the direction that the business wants them to go. I have no problem with the loyalty scheme and don't think it needs to go back to the drawing board either, in fact I think that stance would be ridiculous to the extreme.

For the record I wasn't criticising, I agree with the clubs approach.

Scouse Hibee
10-02-2016, 08:18 PM
For the record I wasn't criticising, I agree with the clubs approach.

Yes I know, I was agreeing with you but maybe would have been better quoting another post for my reply :-)

FromTheCapital
10-02-2016, 10:59 PM
I don't see a problem with it in any way, shape or form. It rewards those who attend week in, week out or pledge money in other ways to the club.


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.Sean.
10-02-2016, 11:26 PM
I think it's fine but they could perhaps stagger the cut offs a bit more for away matches so you've not got people who miss out by the odd point going in for tickets at the same time as those who never go to away games

et_hibby
10-02-2016, 11:29 PM
I don't see a problem with it in any way, shape or form. It rewards those who attend week in, week out or pledge money in other ways to the club.


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As a occasional ticket buyer myself (young family, Hibs Kids games) it seems a bona fide way to incentivise upping sales/ticket buying.

StevieC
10-02-2016, 11:44 PM
You have already had it explained to you multiple times how HSL membership differs from owning shares in Hibernian FC. If you don't understand the difference or choose to ignore it then that's your problem.

I must have missed those explanations, is there a thread on it?

I'd genuinely like to know the difference between HSL and shareholders so I've asked some questions below.


To reverse the argument. Why as a HSL member do I not receive a copy of the annual accounts and an invite to the AGM?

I would have thought that the HSL board would receive a copy of the accounts and an invite to the AGM? It would then be their responsibility to share the accounts with the members? Are accounts not available to everyone though, for a limited company?


Why does my HSL membership not entitle me to a vote on matters raised at AGMs?

Do matters for voting not need to be on the Agenda distributed prior to the AGM? Does the HSL not allow it's members to vote on issues prior to the AGM to gauge members feelings, prior to the HSL board submitting the HSL votes?
Not that it makes any difference, both are a minority vote and hold no real influence in the final count.


Why can't I sell my HSL membership on?

Can't you? Is it not possible to pass your membership on? For example, what if a member wanted to pass it on to his son a few years down the line?


Where is my share certificate?

I thought I saw something on another thread about having to complete a form for an HSL certificate? I know it's not a share certificate, but it'll look just as impressive framed and on the wall?


As a HSL member I demand the same rights and benefits of a shareholder!

Depending on the answers the the above questions, there may not be a huge difference between the rights and benefits.

NAE NOOKIE
10-02-2016, 11:51 PM
You have already had it explained to you multiple times how HSL membership differs from owning shares in Hibernian FC. If you don't understand the difference or choose to ignore it then that's your problem.

To reverse the argument. Why as a HSL member do I not receive a copy of the annual accounts and an invite to the AGM? Why does my HSL membership not entitle me to a vote on matters raised at AGMs? Why can't I sell my HSL membership on? Where is my share certificate?

As a HSL member I demand the same rights and benefits of a shareholder!

... oh wait, I knowingly signed up for something different.

And I have explained till I'm blue in the face why in the context of awarding loyalty points according to a fans input to the club that difference is utterly immaterial ..... we are not talking about access to the AGM or who can sell what on, we are talking about access to games which is the only thing that matters under a loyalty points system ..... There is no justification for giving greater access to matches to HSL members over independent shareholders in that context ( in any context ) ....... the number of matches, if any, this would affect doesn't matter, it shouldn't be happening.

Ozyhibby
10-02-2016, 11:55 PM
And I have explained till I'm blue in the face why in the context of awarding loyalty points according to a fans input to the club that difference is utterly immaterial ..... we are not talking about access to the AGM or who can sell what on, we are talking about access to games which is the only thing that matters under a loyalty points system ..... There is no justification for giving greater access to matches to HSL members over independent shareholders in that context ( in any context ) ....... the number of matches, if any, this would affect doesn't matter, it shouldn't be happening.

HSL offered you a chance to get the 100 loyalty points by assigning some of your shares to them.


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StevieC
11-02-2016, 12:16 AM
HSL offered you a chance to get the 100 loyalty points by assigning some of your shares to them.

Did they? I've never seen this offer.
When? How?

I bought shares as soon as they became available .. even before the HSL scheme was finalised.

NAE NOOKIE
11-02-2016, 12:52 AM
HSL offered you a chance to get the 100 loyalty points by assigning some of your shares to them.


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No offence Ozy, but so what?

I didn't actually know that, but to me that just takes a sad song and makes it worse ..... what are we saying now, that Hibernian FC loyalty points are in the gift of HSL to be used by them to persuade small shareholders to part with their shares? That's a totally different thing from loyalty points for subscribing to HSL.

The idea was 51% fan ownership of the club. If the formation of HSL means there is a large power block within that 51% when we get there I'm ok with that ..... but if we are already at the stage where the club is deferring to that power block and giving them carte blanch to hand out rewards, incentives and privileges that should be administered by the club for the benefit of ALL of its supporters then I for one am far from happy about that.

The way this is going its looking more and more like we have moved from 51% fan ownership of the club to 51% HSL ownership of the club, why else would HSL be using the clubs loyalty points scheme to try and get independent shareholders to transfer their shares when there are millions out there still to be purchased?

What next ..... cheaper season tickets for HSL members? .......over dramatic? lets hope so, but it seems to me that somewhere down this road if you aren't a member of HSL or Tom Farmer you will be on the outside with your nose pressed to the glass as a supporter of this club.

The Green Goblin
11-02-2016, 01:02 AM
50 points ST
25 half ST
10 Hibs TV
2 points home game
1 point away game

Simple and the smaller numbers make it seem more manageable imo.

Plus one point for each post you have made on hibs.net? ;-)

But to be serious, your numbers there look really good to me. Fair, proportionate and simple, as you say. The inclusion of hibs tv is right too, as an annual subs costs £90, nothing like an actual ER season ticket, but still an amount that should get something pointswise.

NAE NOOKIE
11-02-2016, 01:07 AM
Plus one point for each post you have made on hibs.net? ;-)

But to be serious, your numbers there look really good to me. Fair, proportionate and simple, as you say. The inclusion of hibs tv is right too, as an annual subs costs £90, nothing like an actual ER season ticket, but still an amount that should get something pointswise.

That sounds fair to me .... it gives overseas fans a chance to get points for supporting the club in one of the few ways they can.

Ozyhibby
11-02-2016, 01:10 AM
No offence Ozy, but so what?

I didn't actually know that, but to me that just takes a sad song and makes it worse ..... what are we saying now, that Hibernian FC loyalty points are in the gift of HSL to be used by them to persuade small shareholders to part with their shares? That's a totally different thing from loyalty points for subscribing to HSL.

The idea was 51% fan ownership of the club. If the formation of HSL means there is a large power block within that 51% when we get there I'm ok with that ..... but if we are already at the stage where the club is deferring to that power block and giving them carte blanch to hand out rewards, incentives and privileges that should be administered by the club for the benefit of ALL of its supporters then I for one am far from happy about that.

The way this is going its looking more and more like we have moved from 51% fan ownership of the club to 51% HSL ownership of the club, why else would HSL be using the clubs loyalty points scheme to try and get independent shareholders to transfer their shares when there are millions out there still to be purchased?

What next ..... cheaper season tickets for HSL members? .......over dramatic? lets hope so, but it seems to me that somewhere down this road if you aren't a member of HSL or Tom Farmer you will be on the outside with your nose pressed to the glass as a supporter of this club.

I now think you are deliberately misunderstanding things.
Good luck.


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ronaldo7
11-02-2016, 08:11 AM
The problems only really started when the club decided to give HSL members the extra 100 points. They have it in their power to rectify it. In my group, we have youngsters who like to go to away matches, but their parents will have 100 points more than them, so they'll either miss out on tickets, or have to wait for the points bands to drop down, and hope they can get tickets together.

Lots of good suggestions on here regarding the rewarding of points to other groups outwith HSL (Hibs tv/Shareholders), and I think the club need to act.

The club will continue to have people on their backs until they rectify this self inflicted problem.

Ozyhibby
11-02-2016, 08:15 AM
And if people continue to get on the club's back then the scheme will be scrapped.


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B.H.F.C
11-02-2016, 08:19 AM
And if people continue to get on the club's back then the scheme will be scrapped.


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If people have service issues or queries they've got every right to contact the club.

If they scrap it do you not think that will generate a fair number of complaints?

Ozyhibby
11-02-2016, 08:30 AM
If people have service issues or queries they've got every right to contact the club.

If they scrap it do you not think that will generate a fair number of complaints?

I'm not disagreeing. I'm not saying the new system isn't fair. All I'm saying is the old system cost zero to operate and the new system is costing more than expected. This is a system for distributing other clubs tickets that is costing Hibs money. You can surely see why this may be causing concern?


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CapitalGreen
11-02-2016, 08:32 AM
I must have missed those explanations, is there a thread on it?

I'd genuinely like to know the difference between HSL and shareholders so I've asked some questions below.



I would have thought that the HSL board would receive a copy of the accounts and an invite to the AGM? It would then be their responsibility to share the accounts with the members? Are accounts not available to everyone though, for a limited company?



Do matters for voting not need to be on the Agenda distributed prior to the AGM? Does the HSL not allow it's members to vote on issues prior to the AGM to gauge members feelings, prior to the HSL board submitting the HSL votes?
Not that it makes any difference, both are a minority vote and hold no real influence in the final count.



Can't you? Is it not possible to pass your membership on? For example, what if a member wanted to pass it on to his son a few years down the line?



I thought I saw something on another thread about having to complete a form for an HSL certificate? I know it's not a share certificate, but it'll look just as impressive framed and on the wall?



Depending on the answers the the above questions, there may not be a huge difference between the rights and benefits.

Educate yourself - http://www.informdirect.co.uk/shares/shareholders-rights-guide/

However, it appears you already recognise the differences as you detail them clearly in your questions. My argument was never that there was a 'huge difference', it was just that people were knowingly signing up for different things. Hibs produced a lengthy Q&A detailing differences at the time so their is no excuse for ignorance on this matter.

StevieC
11-02-2016, 08:49 AM
Educate yourself - http://www.informdirect.co.uk/shares/shareholders-rights-guide/

Well that was just a bit condescending.

Educate yourself - https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/condescending



However, it appears you already recognise the differences as you detail them clearly in your questions. My argument was never that there was a 'huge difference', it was just that people were knowingly signing up for different things. Hibs produced a lengthy Q&A detailing differences

See above link ..

The questions were genuine questions that I was looking for answers to. I'm not in the HSL so genuinely have no idea of voting rights of members and whether HSL have voting rights at an AGM. How about ansering the questions instead of throwing out arrogant replies?
I bought shares pretty much the same day that they were released. At the time of their release HSL were still in the process of forming, so NO some people did not knowingly sign up for different things. As I'd already parted with my hard earned cash, there was not real need for me to go through detailed Q&A's produced weeks after the event. In much the same way that there's no real need for me to click on your smart *** link, it's not relevant.


so their is no excuse for ignorance on this matter.

Please refer again to the above link.

Whilst refuting your claim, and putting aside your spelling error, I'd still rather be viewed as ignorant than a complete ******.

Danderhall Hibs
11-02-2016, 08:51 AM
And sign up for HSL Billy. [emoji6]


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Are they going to give points out again? When does that open up?

B.H.F.C
11-02-2016, 08:52 AM
I'm not disagreeing. I'm not saying the new system isn't fair. All I'm saying is the old system cost zero to operate and the new system is costing more than expected. This is a system for distributing other clubs tickets that is costing Hibs money. You can surely see why this may be causing concern?


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Without knowing how much exactly it's costing, no I don't.

I'm sure if it's not cost effective then the club will get rid of it, but until such time as they say anything we are just speculating aren't we. Either way, they're going to have a fair number of queries to deal with.

Lucius Apuleius
11-02-2016, 09:00 AM
Most people complaining, and in the greater scheme of things there are not that many of them, are doing so because it doesn't suit their personal circumstances or they want to go with pals who somehow don't have enough points. Such is life kiddos. The scheme was set up to make sure that this who go most get first dibs and this seems to work not too badly.

Lucius Apuleius
11-02-2016, 09:03 AM
Are they going to give points out again? When does that open up?

Personally I would like to see those who bought CTUs given more points than normal ST purchases, as well as share buyers, even historic holders.

Ozyhibby
11-02-2016, 09:08 AM
Are they going to give points out again? When does that open up?

HSL don't give out points, the club do.
I would be too scared to ask the club anything about loyalty points just now so I don't know. [emoji23]
I very much doubt the club will do it again, in my opinion.


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Ozyhibby
11-02-2016, 09:09 AM
Personally I would like to see those who bought CTUs given more points than normal ST purchases, as well as share buyers, even historic holders.

CTU get more points as every time there is a home tie, ten points get automatically added.


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Speedy
11-02-2016, 09:10 AM
Why are so many fans obsessed with giving other clubs money.

He's not obsessed with giving others money, he's saying those that go to away games to support the team should get first dibs on away games.

Speedy
11-02-2016, 09:19 AM
Exactly. It is costing the club money it can ill afford and it brings in zero extra revenue.


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They've had more revenue from me due to loyalty points.

CapitalGreen
11-02-2016, 09:19 AM
They've had more revenue from me due to loyalty points.

and me!

GreenCastle
11-02-2016, 09:23 AM
What I don't like about it is they just seem to pick and choose which games get points.

I would prefer it more consistent.

No points for some away matches and no points for the replay for example.

It's a work in progress but it's either you give points for games or you don't.

I also think there should be an option that if you go to and pay for people's tickets (enticing friends to come back to ER) like a referral system you should be rewarded as this is helping the club.

I've spent more this season than ever before and brough friends who stopped going back to ER but I still am not in the first wave of tickets (just missed out).

I have put more money into the club than some who have only had 2 STs and been to a semi and they get ahead in the order.

I would keep it simple - for every pound spent you get a point.

Ozyhibby
11-02-2016, 09:28 AM
They've had more revenue from me due to loyalty points.

It must have scared a few away as well then as crowds have been lower this season than last. [emoji3]
Hopefully see a bit of a lift for the run in.


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blackpoolhibs
11-02-2016, 09:29 AM
I'd give 10 points for everyone who walks up and pays at Easter Road, and make sure the season ticket was 180 points. No points for away games, and every season ticket holder in the same pot for away tickets.

NAE NOOKIE
11-02-2016, 09:36 AM
I now think you are deliberately misunderstanding things.
Good luck.


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I don't think so Ozy .... What you said was that HSL were offering shareholders loyalty points to transfer some of their shares to HSL .... unless that is incorrect or you have badly worded it, what that means is this:

Hibs have given HSL access to the loyalty points scheme to use for the benefit of HSL which HSL, as well as using them to attract new members, is using them to dilute the amount of shares held by non HSL members ..... that may not be the intention but that is the result, at which point it stops being the Hibernian football clubs loyalty points scheme and starts being HSL's loyalty points scheme .... giving them the power to decide who gets certain match tickets and not Hibs.

To be honest I don't care if Hibs are allowing HSL to attract new members by using the loyalty points scheme .... that was never the issue. The issue is, was and continues to be that by not awarding the same loyalty points to people who have bought shares independently of the HSL route they are rewarding one set of fans for doing exactly what another set of fans has done .............. a loyalty points scheme cannot be run that way, it is contrary to the whole concept and spirit of rewarding fans for their input to the club.

CapitalGreen
11-02-2016, 09:45 AM
doing exactly what another set of fans has done .......

Wrong

Ozyhibby
11-02-2016, 09:45 AM
I don't think so Ozy .... What you said was that HSL were offering shareholders loyalty points to transfer some of their shares to HSL .... unless that is incorrect or you have badly worded it, what that means is this:

Hibs have given HSL access to the loyalty points scheme to use for the benefit of HSL which HSL, as well as using them to attract new members, is using them to dilute the amount of shares held by non HSL members ..... that may not be the intention but that is the result, at which point it stops being the Hibernian football clubs loyalty points scheme and starts being HSL's loyalty points scheme .... giving them the power to decide who gets certain match tickets and not Hibs.

To be honest I don't care if Hibs are allowing HSL to attract new members by using the loyalty points scheme .... that was never the issue. The issue is, was and continues to be that by not awarding the same loyalty points to people who have bought shares independently of the HSL route they are rewarding one set of fans for doing exactly what another set of fans has done .............. a loyalty points scheme cannot be run that way, it is contrary to the whole concept and spirit of rewarding fans for their input to the club.

HSL offered you membership if you transferred over £225 worth of shares, same as anyone else. As a member of HSL you would have then received points from the club. You declined the offer, so no point wasting any more time on it.


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StevieC
11-02-2016, 09:50 AM
I'd give 10 points for everyone who walks up and pays at Easter Road, and make sure the season ticket was 180 points. No points for away games, and every season ticket holder in the same pot for away tickets.

I think away games should get points as well. Whilst it might not be benfiting the club directly, I think that those fans that travel the length and breadth of the country following the team should get priority for games (such as Tynecastle and Ibrox). I don't get to many away games so it would reduce my chances, but that seems fair enough as I think these fans deserve it more.

I think points should be purely match based though, not based on matches and how much money you can spend on other products/services offered by the club.

NAE NOOKIE
11-02-2016, 09:51 AM
Wrong

Wrong

Not In The Know
11-02-2016, 09:51 AM
The ideal solution would be for Hearts to have a decent stadium with an away capacity that meets demand for derby games. :greengrin

but nah they can't even afford to paint it at the moment !

jodjam
11-02-2016, 09:52 AM
I'd give 10 points for everyone who walks up and pays at Easter Road, and make sure the season ticket was 180 points. No points for away games, and every season ticket holder in the same pot for away tickets.

We have a winner.

Ozyhibby
11-02-2016, 10:04 AM
On the financial benefit of the loyalty point scheme, no single act in this whole thing brought in more money for the club than the awarding of loyalty points to HSL. Membership rose by a third which works out at about £8k a month extra income towards Alan Stubbs budget (figures approx). Nothing else about this scheme has come close to matching the return that decision made.
Carry on knocking HSL if you like but the HSL members can feel proud that they are chipping in about £25k a month towards bringing in the quality of players and depth of squad we are seeing now. I know I don't want to go back to the old set up.


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blackpoolhibs
11-02-2016, 10:08 AM
I think away games should get points as well. Whilst it might not be benfiting the club directly, I think that those fans that travel the length and breadth of the country following the team should get priority for games (such as Tynecastle and Ibrox). I don't get to many away games so it would reduce my chances, but that seems fair enough as I think these fans deserve it more.

I think points should be purely match based though, not based on matches and how much money you can spend on other products/services offered by the club.


We disagree Stevie, the loyalty system was brought in initially to help walk up supporters who couldn't for one reason or another get a season ticket. Now its seen as a loyalty ticket for those who go to away games, and reduced the rights of season ticket holders.

For me this is not right, the season ticket holder is the lifeblood of the club, and they should be able to get in first for any bun fight for away tickets.

liamh2202
11-02-2016, 10:11 AM
We disagree Stevie, the loyalty system was brought in initially to help walk up supporters who couldn't for one reason or another get a season ticket. Now its seen as a loyalty ticket for those who go to away games, and reduced the rights of season ticket holders.

For me this is not right, the season ticket holder is the lifeblood of the club, and they should be able to get in first for any bun fight for away tickets.

Spot on

Not In The Know
11-02-2016, 10:12 AM
On the financial benefit of the loyalty point scheme, no single act in this whole thing brought in more money for the club than the awarding of loyalty points to HSL. Membership rose by a third which works out at about £8k a month extra income towards Alan Stubbs budget (figures approx). Nothing else about this scheme has come close to matching the return that decision made.
Carry on knocking HSL if you like but the HSL members can feel proud that they are chipping in about £25k a month towards bringing in the quality of players and depth of squad we are seeing now. I know I don't want to go back to the old set up.


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That is amazing. Figures like that really do show the difference HSL make.

In simplistic terms you could argue without HSL we would not have Stokes, Mcginn, and Mcgeouch in the team.

Without out them we wouldn't even need a loyalty scheme for tickets as nobody would be wanting to attend

StevieC
11-02-2016, 10:16 AM
On the financial benefit of the loyalty point scheme, no single act in this whole thing brought in more money for the club than the awarding of loyalty points to HSL. Membership rose by a third which works out at about £8k a month extra income towards Alan Stubbs budget (figures approx). Nothing else about this scheme has come close to matching the return that decision made.
Carry on knocking HSL if you like but the HSL members can feel proud that they are chipping in about £25k a month towards bringing in the quality of players and depth of squad we are seeing now. I know I don't want to go back to the old set up.

I don't think anyone is knocking HSL, it's a great scheme and it's excellent that it is bringing in additional revenue.

It doesn't get away from the fact that you can effectively buy loyalty points, and lift yourself up the priority ladder for ticket purchases.

Maybe I'm too much of a "leftie" :dunno:

marinello59
11-02-2016, 10:17 AM
On the financial benefit of the loyalty point scheme, no single act in this whole thing brought in more money for the club than the awarding of loyalty points to HSL. Membership rose by a third which works out at about £8k a month extra income towards Alan Stubbs budget (figures approx). Nothing else about this scheme has come close to matching the return that decision made.
Carry on knocking HSL if you like but the HSL members can feel proud that they are chipping in about £25k a month towards bringing in the quality of players and depth of squad we are seeing now. I know I don't want to go back to the old set up.


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I didn't know that. I questioned the rights and wrongs of the 100 points but I am delighted that it resulted in such a large take up of HSL memberships. Anything that helps put a better team on the park tops my own minor concerns.

My_Wife_Camille
11-02-2016, 10:21 AM
We disagree Stevie, the loyalty system was brought in initially to help walk up supporters who couldn't for one reason or another get a season ticket. Now its seen as a loyalty ticket for those who go to away games, and reduced the rights of season ticket holders.

For me this is not right, the season ticket holder is the lifeblood of the club, and they should be able to get in first for any bun fight for away tickets.
To get first dibs you pretty much have to be a season ticket holder anyway. It's just that those who bother to travel to all the away games on top of that get first choice for those away tickets.

It's fair and thankfully the club agrees. I've not missed away game all season and I'd have been be gutted if I'd missed out that derby game there to someone who hadn't attended any away matches just because they have a season ticket. Thanks to this fair system the club have in place, that was never an option though.

The ones suggesting otherwise are just hurting because they can't get it their own way.

StevieC
11-02-2016, 10:30 AM
For me this is not right, the season ticket holder is the lifeblood of the club, and they should be able to get in first for any bun fight for away tickets.

I don't think we are a million miles apart.

I don't disagree that season ticket holders are a very important part of the club, although I would say that all supporters that pay through the turnstiles could be called the "lifeblood" .. we all play our part. I'm not sure if the club could survive on season ticket holders alone.

I'm also not going to argue against season ticket holders getting first go at tickets (before those that don't have a season ticket).

I can, however, also see the argument of those (season ticket holders) that have stood in the pissing rain at Cowdenbeath and Alloa that say they should get first shout at tickets when the numbers are limited.

marinello59
11-02-2016, 10:32 AM
The ones suggesting otherwise are just hurting because they can't get it their own way.

Quite a dismissive attitude to take towards your fellow fans but that could be thrown straight back at you by saying that those who are benefitting from this scheme are the happiest with it.
I've already made my views known so I won't repeat myself.:greengrin

Ozyhibby
11-02-2016, 10:44 AM
I don't think anyone is knocking HSL, it's a great scheme and it's excellent that it is bringing in additional revenue.

It doesn't get away from the fact that you can effectively buy loyalty points, and lift yourself up the priority ladder for ticket purchases.

Maybe I'm too much of a "leftie" :dunno:

What should appeal to the leftie in you is that every member of HSL is equal whether you put in £7 a month or over £100 a month (there are a few). Everyone gets one vote.


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StevieC
11-02-2016, 10:45 AM
We disagree Stevie, the loyalty system was brought in initially to help walk up supporters who couldn't for one reason or another get a season ticket. Now its seen as a loyalty ticket for those who go to away games, and reduced the rights of season ticket holders.

You have to remember that walk up supporters will not match season ticket loyalty points points until the last game of the season. Therefore season ticket holders, who get the points as soon as they buy their ticket, will (rightly) have an advantage all the way through a season.

The away points added allows the club to recognise those that have supported the team at all games. And lets not underestimate the lift that a vocal support at an away game can give the team, and potentially affect the result.

I therefore disagree that it is reducing the rights of a season ticket holder, it's rewarding those season ticket holders that support the team in every game.

I'd be interested to hear the clubs thoughts on the loyalty scheme, and how it benefits the club, but I'd have to say that it's pretty close to being spot on.

NAE NOOKIE
11-02-2016, 10:47 AM
HSL offered you membership if you transferred over £225 worth of shares, same as anyone else. As a member of HSL you would have then received points from the club. You declined the offer, so no point wasting any more time on it.


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FFS .... what the hell is so difficult about this?

I don't support HSL I support Hibernian football club. Hibernian football club had a share issue with 2 objectives:

1 ) ...... To over an unspecified period of time pass control of 51% of its total share value to its supporters.

2 ) ...... To facilitate an injection of money into the club as a result of the sale to the fans of those shares.

In view of that I along with many other supporters bought shares in the club ..... It is therefor the duty of Hibernian football club to treat me no better and no worse than my fellow Hibs fans who have allowed their love of the club to kick fiscal common sense into touch. That fair treatment does not include being coerced into handing over my shares in the club to HSL and it certainly does not include Hibs giving HSL the tools it requires to make me do it ....... by creating a situation where I have to either hand over my shares to HSL or keep my shares but join HSL anyway in order to get the same treatment as an HSL member that's what is happening ... coercion to join HSL.

Why does membership of HSL elevate a supporter over me when in financial terms my input to the club has been just as significant as his? That is what this abuse of the spirit of the loyalty points system does ...... I scrutinised the bumph that came with the share offer and in no part of it did it say, 'these are 2nd class shares in Hibernian football club, for a 1st class share in the club please contact HSL'

Everybody who subscribed to this share issue, no matter how they did it, gets treated the same its that simple .... if not you are creating classes of supporter not based on their input to the club, but on who they are.

StevieC
11-02-2016, 10:49 AM
What should appeal to the leftie in you is that every member of HSL is equal whether you put in £7 a month or over £100 a month (there are a few). Everyone gets one vote.

That does appeal :aok:

Also .. I hadn't realised that there was a lower "entry level". I thought minimum was £18.75pm.

Ozyhibby
11-02-2016, 10:50 AM
That is amazing. Figures like that really do show the difference HSL make.

In simplistic terms you could argue without HSL we would not have Stokes, Mcginn, and Mcgeouch in the team.

Without out them we wouldn't even need a loyalty scheme for tickets as nobody would be wanting to attend

What is really exciting is that HSL still has plenty room to grow. Imagine the quality we could afford next season (hopefully in the prem) if we could double the membership. It would put us in a position of being able to out spend Aberdeen and Hearts (their FoH money is earmarked for repaying Budge next season).


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Ozyhibby
11-02-2016, 10:56 AM
FFS .... what the hell is so difficult about this?

I don't support HSL I support Hibernian football club. Hibernian football club had a share issue with 2 objectives:

1 ) ...... To over an unspecified period of time pass control of 51% of its total share value to its supporters.

2 ) ...... To facilitate an injection of money into the club as a result of the sale to the fans of those shares.

In view of that I along with many other supporters bought shares in the club ..... It is therefor the duty of Hibernian football club to treat me no better and no worse than my fellow Hibs fans who have allowed their love of the club to kick fiscal common sense into touch. That fair treatment does not include being coerced into handing over my shares in the club to HSL and it certainly does not include Hibs giving HSL the tools it requires to make me do it ....... by creating a situation where I have to either hand over my shares to HSL or keep my shares but join HSL anyway in order to get the same treatment as an HSL member that's what is happening ... coercion to join HSL.

Why does membership of HSL elevate a supporter over me when in financial terms my input to the club has been just as significant as his? That is what this abuse of the spirit of the loyalty points system does ...... I scrutinised the bumph that came with the share offer and in no part of it did it say, 'these are 2nd class shares in Hibernian football club, for a 1st class share in the club please contact HSL'

Everybody who subscribed to this share issue, no matter how they did it, gets treated the same its that simple .... if not you are creating classes of supporter not based on their input to the club, but on who they are.

Ok, you're not happy, I get it. I'm afraid I can't help you anymore.
I think you need more specialist help. Sorry.


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lucky
11-02-2016, 11:14 AM
I don't think anyone is knocking HSL, it's a great scheme and it's excellent that it is bringing in additional revenue.

It doesn't get away from the fact that you can effectively buy loyalty points, and lift yourself up the priority ladder for ticket purchases.

Maybe I'm too much of a "leftie" :dunno:

Now that made me laugh you a "leftie" also not sure how how donating to HSL is buying loyalty points. The majority of members/contributors were paying in long before the 100 points was promoted.

Winston Ingram
11-02-2016, 11:15 AM
I think the scheme works well.

I was speaking to Yam yesterday and their's sounds horrific. They give 20 points for an ST and 4 for an away game. Away support plays a big part in away performances and people should be rewarded for it but I struggle to see how attending 5 away matches is given the same value as attending 19 home home ones.

NAE NOOKIE
11-02-2016, 11:20 AM
Ok, you're not happy, I get it. I'm afraid I can't help you anymore.
I think you need more specialist help. Sorry.


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Ach maybe you're right Ozy ....... just the other day my psychiatrist was saying my life would be so much easier if I allowed myself to be treated like a mug more often. Though to be honest I'm thinking of changing him, because not once has he told me that a desire to see fairness is a flaw in my psyche, which it clearly is if you look at this thread.

StevieC
11-02-2016, 11:43 AM
Now that made me laugh you a "leftie"

Working class background Kev, you know that. Started work at 16 and a union member before my 17th birthday. Not as "left" as Raymie right enough, but still loyal to my roots.


also not sure how how donating to HSL is buying loyalty points.

It was stated above that the introduction of loyalty points resulted in a 33% increase in members .. that's 33% that have used the opportunity to "buy" loyalty points.


The majority of members/contributors were paying in long before the 100 points was promoted.

And 100% of those that bought direct from the club, on day one, payed in long before they watched 100 points pass them by.

blackpoolhibs
11-02-2016, 12:47 PM
You have to remember that walk up supporters will not match season ticket loyalty points points until the last game of the season. Therefore season ticket holders, who get the points as soon as they buy their ticket, will (rightly) have an advantage all the way through a season.

The away points added allows the club to recognise those that have supported the team at all games. And lets not underestimate the lift that a vocal support at an away game can give the team, and potentially affect the result.

I therefore disagree that it is reducing the rights of a season ticket holder, it's rewarding those season ticket holders that support the team in every game.

I'd be interested to hear the clubs thoughts on the loyalty scheme, and how it benefits the club, but I'd have to say that it's pretty close to being spot on.

Again we disagree, :greengrin i used to buy a season ticket for the sole reason it got me preferential treatment for tickets that might be scarce. (Not many if any were) Yet it gave me as a season ticket holder the same chance as other season ticket holders.

Now it makes no difference if i buy one, and even when i did have one i missed a few that were early kick offs or moved to midweek.

Having a season ticket now is not worth it at all for me, the benefits of having it have gone. I also understand that a good away support is a good thing, has our away support grown since this scheme has come in, and is it down to the scheme or the team doing better?

I know at least 2 people who were at the game on Sunday who have 5 points between them, its not that difficult to get these away tickets it seems. :wink:

StevieC
11-02-2016, 01:20 PM
Again we disagree, :greengrin i used to buy a season ticket for the sole reason it got me preferential treatment for tickets that might be scarce.

I used to buy one because it was value for money. Ticket priority was a bonus, but rarely needed.


Having a season ticket now is not worth it at all for me, the benefits of having it have gone.

I felt the same, even before the loyalty scheme was announced.


I also understand that a good away support is a good thing, has our away support grown since this scheme has come in, and is it down to the scheme or the team doing better?

Not sure. I think we both agree it definitely benefits the team to have a good away support though.


I know at least 2 people who were at the game on Sunday who have 5 points between them, its not that difficult to get these away tickets it seems. :wink:

I think this highlights the problem.

Season ticket holders not attending a particular away game are happy to "lend" out their season ticket priority. This leaves the "hardcore" (go to most away games) supporters in a lottery for tickets with your "5 points between them". By prioritising supporters with both season tickets and a wad of away games under their belt there's less chance of them missing out.
Means that I wouldn't get a look in, but fairs fair.

ronaldo7
11-02-2016, 02:52 PM
Again we disagree, :greengrin i used to buy a season ticket for the sole reason it got me preferential treatment for tickets that might be scarce. (Not many if any were) Yet it gave me as a season ticket holder the same chance as other season ticket holders.

Now it makes no difference if i buy one, and even when i did have one i missed a few that were early kick offs or moved to midweek.

Having a season ticket now is not worth it at all for me, the benefits of having it have gone. I also understand that a good away support is a good thing, has our away support grown since this scheme has come in, and is it down to the scheme or the team doing better?

I know at least 2 people who were at the game on Sunday who have 5 points between them, its not that difficult to get these away tickets it seems. :wink:

:faf: I thought you'd have more than 5 points by now.:greengrin

Kojock
11-02-2016, 03:12 PM
That does appeal :aok:

Also .. I hadn't realised that there was a lower "entry level". I thought minimum was £18.75pm.

Make three £5 payments to HSL and get 100 points. Pay £28 for a ticket and get 10 points. Is that fair ??

HH81
11-02-2016, 03:23 PM
Make three £5 payments to HSL and get 100 points. Pay £28 for a ticket and get 10 points. Is that fair ??

HSL looks a bargin hope you got involved.

Kojock
11-02-2016, 03:34 PM
HSL looks a bargin hope you got involved.

As a matter of fact I do contribute to HSL and I will be awarded 100 points. Won't change my opinion that points should only be awarded for games attended.

I bought an East Stand Stone, sponsor a players shirt, spend money in the Hibs shop and Behind The Goals. I also own shares. Should I not be awarded extra points for putting all that cash into Hibernian after all that's what the scheme is all about.

Billy Whizz
11-02-2016, 03:37 PM
Again we disagree, :greengrin i used to buy a season ticket for the sole reason it got me preferential treatment for tickets that might be scarce. (Not many if any were) Yet it gave me as a season ticket holder the same chance as other season ticket holders.

Now it makes no difference if i buy one, and even when i did have one i missed a few that were early kick offs or moved to midweek.

Having a season ticket now is not worth it at all for me, the benefits of having it have gone. I also understand that a good away support is a good thing, has our away support grown since this scheme has come in, and is it down to the scheme or the team doing better?

I know at least 2 people who were at the game on Sunday who have 5 points between them, its not that difficult to get these away tickets it seems. :wink:

I saw loads of people in Sunday who don't have season tickets, and very rarely go away a well. Shame on them, taking tickets away from loyal Hibs fans who couldn't get one!

HH81
11-02-2016, 03:39 PM
As a matter of fact I do contribute to HSL and I will be awarded 100 points. Won't change my opinion that points should only be awarded for games attended.

I bought an East Stand Stone, sponsor a players shirt, spend money in the Hibs shop and Behind The Goals. I also own shares. Should I not be awarded extra points for putting all that cash into Hibernian after all that's what the scheme is all about.

The scheme is run by Hibs and it is their choice. You should maybe ask them or make suggestions? I actually do not care about points but the fuss these points have caused make me laugh. I thought this scheme was for walk up fans at the start and it has turned into people on here wanting to be super fans.

Everyone supports hibs in their own way and the amount of points doesn't change that.

Kojock
11-02-2016, 03:47 PM
The scheme is run by Hibs and it is their choice. You should maybe ask them or make suggestions? I actually do not care about points but the fuss these points have caused make me laugh. I thought this scheme was for walk up fans at the start and it has turned into people on here wanting to be super fans.

Everyone supports hibs in their own way and the amount of points doesn't change that.

This is from the initial launch Q&A

How will this benefit supporters?

When tickets go on sale for hugely popular games where demand is likely to exceed the allocation, supporters with the most loyalty points will be able to purchase tickets first. Therefore attending more matches, home and away, will mean that you will have a greater chance of being able to attend the games where there is limited allocation.

It was set up to reward fans who attended the most matches.

blackpoolhibs
11-02-2016, 03:47 PM
:faf: I thought you'd have more than 5 points by now.:greengrin

I should have 105, but the bonus points are not through yet Ronnie. :greengrin I suppose the club is a bit busier than usual at the minute. :wink:

blackpoolhibs
11-02-2016, 03:50 PM
I saw loads of people in Sunday who don't have season tickets, and very rarely go away a well. Shame on them, taking tickets away from loyal Hibs fans who couldn't get one!


:faf: Billy i hope this is a huge WHOOSH moment that i am completely missing?

Billy Whizz
11-02-2016, 03:53 PM
:faf: Billy i hope this is a huge WHOOSH moment that i am completely missing?

Not really, my daughter a season ticket holder for 20 consecutive years, couldn't get one in the 2nd wave

blackpoolhibs
11-02-2016, 03:55 PM
Not really, my daughter a season ticket holder for 20 consecutive years, couldn't get one in the 2nd wave

Thats a real shame Billy. :agree: I still think all season ticket holders should have the same chance of EVERY ticket, after all they are the ones who are putting their money into Hibs, not Alloa or Morton.

HH81
11-02-2016, 03:58 PM
This is from the initial launch Q&A

How will this benefit supporters?

When tickets go on sale for hugely popular games where demand is likely to exceed the allocation, supporters with the most loyalty points will be able to purchase tickets first. Therefore attending more matches, home and away, will mean that you will have a greater chance of being able to attend the games where there is limited allocation.

It was set up to reward fans who attended the most matches.

Have you got a link to that?

Kojock
11-02-2016, 04:00 PM
Have you got a link to that?

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/5241

Billy Whizz
11-02-2016, 04:00 PM
Thats a real shame Billy. :agree: I still think all season ticket holders should have the same chance of EVERY ticket, after all they are the ones who are putting their money into Hibs, not Alloa or Morton.

In your opinion of course.

blackpoolhibs
11-02-2016, 04:02 PM
In your opinion of course.

Yes my opinion, unless someone else is posting under blackpoolhibs? :confused:

Billy Whizz
11-02-2016, 04:04 PM
Yes my opinion, unless someone else is posting under blackpoolhibs? :confused:

Hope there's not 2 of you😄

blackpoolhibs
11-02-2016, 04:07 PM
Hope there's not 2 of you

Imagine that? :greengrin

HH81
11-02-2016, 04:09 PM
http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/5241

Cheers.

matty_f
11-02-2016, 04:12 PM
Ach maybe you're right Ozy ....... just the other day my psychiatrist was saying my life would be so much easier if I allowed myself to be treated like a mug more often. Though to be honest I'm thinking of changing him, because not once has he told me that a desire to see fairness is a flaw in my psyche, which it clearly is if you look at this thread.

It wasn't unfair.

They are two different purchases. An HSL member is not the same as a shareholder.

I bought shares rather than HSL, though i'll be signing up this evening.

I have had the same opportunity as everyone else to subscribe if i wanted the loyalty points. When I bought the shares there was no expectation at all that i would get loyalty points, and no expectation at all that i would be considered to be the same as an HSL member.

HSL and shareholders are different, there is no unfairness in treating them differently.

CapitalGreen
11-02-2016, 04:15 PM
This is from the initial launch Q&A

How will this benefit supporters?

When tickets go on sale for hugely popular games where demand is likely to exceed the allocation, supporters with the most loyalty points will be able to purchase tickets first. Therefore attending more matches, home and away, will mean that you will have a greater chance of being able to attend the games where there is limited allocation.

It was set up to reward fans who attended the most matches.

Also from the initial launch Q&A:

Will points be awarded for other purchases I make?

The Club is looking at potentially linking other purchases to the loyalty scheme in the future. This may include retail parts of the Club but the priority just now is to launch the scheme with ticketing.

ronaldo7
11-02-2016, 04:17 PM
I should have 105, but the bonus points are not through yet Ronnie. :greengrin I suppose the club is a bit busier than usual at the minute. :wink:

I canny believe they're giving you those bonus points for going to Hospitality. It wisnae even at Easter Road.:grr:

Andy74
11-02-2016, 04:20 PM
We disagree Stevie, the loyalty system was brought in initially to help walk up supporters who couldn't for one reason or another get a season ticket. Now its seen as a loyalty ticket for those who go to away games, and reduced the rights of season ticket holders.

For me this is not right, the season ticket holder is the lifeblood of the club, and they should be able to get in first for any bun fight for away tickets.

Agree. I think the scheme has recently been influenced by those who it is now benefitting most.

matty_f
11-02-2016, 04:22 PM
Agree. I think the scheme has recently been influenced by those who it is now benefitting most.

While I don't know if that's necessarily the case, the scheme definitely lends itself to a 'rich get richer' situation.

I liked the idea that where you benefit from being in the top tier you don't get loyalty points for that game. It means others can catch up.

Billy Whizz
11-02-2016, 04:23 PM
Agree. I think the scheme has recently been influenced by those who it is now benefitting most.

I presume you mean the fans that go every week, unlike you who picks and chooses their games

marinello59
11-02-2016, 04:24 PM
This is from the initial launch Q&A

How will this benefit supporters?

When tickets go on sale for hugely popular games where demand is likely to exceed the allocation, supporters with the most loyalty points will be able to purchase tickets first. Therefore attending more matches, home and away, will mean that you will have a greater chance of being able to attend the games where there is limited allocation.

It was set up to reward fans who attended the most matches.

That's what it was set up to do. I do wonder why that was as when loyalty schemes were discussed in here over the years my memory is it was with a view to giving walk up supporters at ER recognition when it came to high demand games. At no point do I remember anybody suggesting that ST holders could find themselves slipping down the pecking order if they didn't attend away games but that is what has happened. My memory ain't that great though so I may be corrected on that. :greengrin
Attending matches home and away doesn't just give a small band of us a bigger chance of getting tickets, it guarantees us one.

blackpoolhibs
11-02-2016, 04:38 PM
That's what it was set up to do. I do wonder why that was as when loyalty schemes were discussed in here over the years my memory is it was with a view to giving walk up supporters at ER recognition when it came to high demand games. At no point do I remember anybody suggesting that ST holders could find themselves slipping down the pecking order if they didn't attend away games but that is what has happened. My memory ain't that great though so I may be corrected on that. :greengrin
Attending matches home and away doesn't just give a small band of us a bigger chance of getting tickets, it guarantees us one.


Thats exactly why it was brought in, and its been hijacked to suit those who can go every week. Imagine the scenario where we won the league and were taking a full allocation away each week, it would be the same folk who would get the tickets as they went every week.

Andy74
11-02-2016, 04:49 PM
I presume you mean the fans that go every week, unlike you who picks and chooses their games

That's pretty offensive really isn't it when you have no idea of any personal circumstances.

This is the sort of attitude this scheme is encouraging sadly.

blackpoolhibs
11-02-2016, 04:57 PM
That's pretty offensive really isn't it when you have no idea of any personal circumstances.

This is the sort of attitude this scheme is encouraging sadly.

Exactly, i remember going every week home and away and the away support was terrific some weeks and poor the next. Now there's a class system in place, where folk are now looking out to see if the people sitting in a seat deserves it or not. :rolleyes:

Kojock
11-02-2016, 05:06 PM
Thats exactly why it was brought in, and its been hijacked to suit those who can go every week. Imagine the scenario where we won the league and were taking a full allocation away each week, it would be the same folk who would get the tickets as they went every week.

No it wasn't, read the initial Q&A it was to reward fans who went to the most matches. What it has achieved is an elitist group wha are guaranteed a ticket for every away game.

Billy Whizz
11-02-2016, 05:08 PM
That's pretty offensive really isn't it when you have no idea of any personal circumstances.

This is the sort of attitude this scheme is encouraging sadly.

Hardly offensive, and you don't know the sacrifices I make, to go along as often as I can to support the team

Andy74
11-02-2016, 05:15 PM
Hardly offensive, and you don't know the sacrifices I make, to go along as often as I can to support the team

I'm not making any judgement of you as I accept we all have some sacrifices to make.

You however have told me I pick and choose my games. You have no idea of that. You also have no idea of the scale of support I provide Hibs through direct share purchases and ongoing through HSL.

It's a sad state of affairs when anyone has to justify whatever you class as loyalty. As I said this scheme has brought about some attitudes that are very much well below Hibs Class.

NAE NOOKIE
11-02-2016, 06:04 PM
It wasn't unfair.

They are two different purchases. An HSL member is not the same as a shareholder.

I bought shares rather than HSL, though i'll be signing up this evening.

I have had the same opportunity as everyone else to subscribe if i wanted the loyalty points. When I bought the shares there was no expectation at all that i would get loyalty points, and no expectation at all that i would be considered to be the same as an HSL member.

HSL and shareholders are different, there is no unfairness in treating them differently.

Nonsense .. their input to the club is exactly the same and should be acknowledged accordingly .... your point here is totally inconsequential in the context of who does and who doesn't get loyalty points.

blackpoolhibs
11-02-2016, 06:08 PM
No it wasn't, read the initial Q&A it was to reward fans who went to the most matches. What it has achieved is an elitist group wha are guaranteed a ticket for every away game.

I disagree, the scheme was initially sought by walk up fans who attended HOME games. Its now evolved into a scheme where those who attend every away games get priority over all those tickets now, to the detriment of season ticket holders.

CapitalGreen
11-02-2016, 06:12 PM
Nonsense .. their input to the club is exactly the same and should be acknowledged accordingly .... your point here is totally inconsequential in the context of who does and who doesn't get loyalty points.

The input of someone buying a £360 season ticket is the same as someone buying £360 worth of shares. I wouldn't expect to get entry to a league game by showing my share certificate though.

matty_f
11-02-2016, 06:27 PM
Nonsense .. their input to the club is exactly the same and should be acknowledged accordingly .... your point here is totally inconsequential in the context of who does and who doesn't get loyalty points.

How's it nonsense? The input to the club is different in that one pays directly to the club (the shareholder, who then gets shareholder rights, set of accounts, right to attend AGM, dividends should they be payable). The other gives money to HSL for membership to HSL, has no shareholder rights, has no right to attend the AGM and all the rest of it.

The end result is that the club gets the money, but you could then say the same for hospitality, or strip sales, or ticket purchases.

It's hardly inconsequential. There was no expectation when purchasing shares directly during the period that the option was available, that you or anyone else buying shares directly would in any way, shape, or form be entitled to loyalty points for that purchase. That was entirely transparent. HSL was positioned as an alternative option to buying shares directly. It was never sold as the same thing.

Can you explain how they are "exactly the same"?

Kojock
11-02-2016, 06:43 PM
I disagree, the scheme was initially sought by walk up fans who attended HOME games. Its now evolved into a scheme where those who attend every away games get priority over all those tickets now, to the detriment of season ticket holders.

Is that not another Hibs.net myth. Posters on Hibs net say what they want out the scheme and all of a sudden it becomes fact.

Why would the club in the Q&A launch say it was to reward fans who attended the most matches home and away would get first dibs on away tickets.

Walk up fans are never going to accrue enough points to have a chance of away tickets as there are 8000 season ticket holders who start the season on 180 points. So basically its all the walk up fans fault :confused: who have created a monster.

Carheenlea
11-02-2016, 06:56 PM
Haven't read through the whole thread and probably won't, but I'll reiterate my point of view that the Loyalty Scheme was going to work just fine until they decided to award points for HSL. That over complicated a simple scheme and was cue for more suggestions and ideas of what points should be awarded for other than attending games.

marinello59
11-02-2016, 06:58 PM
Is that not another Hibs.net myth. Posters on Hibs net say what they want out the scheme and all of a sudden it becomes fact.

I'm not so sure it is. I have said that my memory may be wrong but my recollection is that the focus on discussion here whenever loyalty schemes were mentioned in the past was to reward those who walked up to games at ER. By the way, I'm getting the benefits of this scheme but I still see flaws in it.

Why would the club in the Q&A launch say it was to reward fans who attended the most matches home and away would get first dibs on away tickets.

They would say that at launch as it described the scheme that had evolved from whoever was involved in the discussions. That's not being critical of anybody who was involved by the way, well done to them for getting stuck in.

Walk up fans are never going to accrue enough points to have a chance of away tickets as there are 8000 season ticket holders who start the season on 180 points. So basically its all the walk up fans fault :confused: who have created a monster.

I don't really understand you last point. Apart from yourself who has blamed walk up fans?

wookie70
11-02-2016, 07:11 PM
The input of someone buying a £360 season ticket is the same as someone buying £360 worth of shares. I wouldn't expect to get entry to a league game by showing my share certificate though.

The input may be the same or very similar in terms of finance but not in terms of support. Going to games should be the biggest determination of whether you should be at the front of the queue for tickets for games. If you go to ER often enough ie season ticket then you should be guaranteed a ticket for ER. You are. By going to games at ER and away you are more likely to get tickets for games away from ER you were before HSL.

For away games I have no idea why someone who doesn't attend away games think they should have preference or equal billing over someone who does. Assuming both go to ER of course. To me, the supporters who go every week, I'm not one, have the absolute right to have first dibs on games like Tynecastle and Ibrox. For these games the next sale of tickets after the initial tranche should be for the loyalty points just under the first one.

The game at Tynecastle was a shocking decision in my opinion. Allowing supporters who may not have attended a game at ER all season equal chance as someone who has had two season tickets and went to quite a few other games in the last year and a bit just make a mockery of a loyalty system. Whilst saying that I appreciate Hibs are trying to continue the value of having a season ticket but if we are having a loyalty system you have to use it.

Super_JMcGinn
11-02-2016, 07:23 PM
The input may be the same or very similar in terms of finance but not in terms of support. Going to games should be the biggest determination of whether you should be at the front of the queue for tickets for games. If you go to ER often enough ie season ticket then you should be guaranteed a ticket for ER. You are. By going to games at ER and away you are more likely to get tickets for games away from ER you were before HSL.

For away games I have no idea why someone who doesn't attend away games think they should have preference or equal billing over someone who does. Assuming both go to ER of course. To me, the supporters who go every week, I'm not one, have the absolute right to have first dibs on games like Tynecastle and Ibrox. For these games the next sale of tickets after the initial tranche should be for the loyalty points just under the first one.

The game at Tynecastle was a shocking decision in my opinion. Allowing supporters who may not have attended a game at ER all season equal chance as someone who has had two season tickets and went to quite a few other games in the last year and a bit just make a mockery of a loyalty system. Whilst saying that I appreciate Hibs are trying to continue the value of having a season ticket but if we are having a loyalty system you have to use it.
I agree with you totally with regard to the semi final, I do think it will be tweaked in future though, especially after the latest decision to not use the loyalty system at all.( Hearts replay )

wookie70
11-02-2016, 07:26 PM
I agree with you totally with regard to the semi final, I do think it will be tweaked in future though, especially after the latest decision to not use the loyalty system at all.( Hearts replay )

I was actually talking about the derby. Someone who had a season ticket last year and went to the last few tickets could have qualified for the 180 ticket second tranche.

Kojock
11-02-2016, 07:49 PM
I don't really understand you last point. Apart from yourself who has blamed walk up fans?

I was being ironic/sarcastic, as the system was introduced to suit walk up fans then it could be construed that they were responsible for creating a monster.

Maybe I'm missing something but can anyone explain how walk up fans would accrue enough points to enable them to get a ticket for a limited game.

wookie70
11-02-2016, 08:06 PM
I was being ironic/sarcastic, as the system was introduced to suit walk up fans then it could be construed that they were responsible for creating a monster.

Maybe I'm missing something but can anyone explain how walk up fans would accrue enough points to enable them to get a ticket for a limited game.

By going to games home and away. They are of course, quite rightly, hugely disadvantaged compared to a season ticket holder who gets the points loaded on up front. They may after a couple of years though end up with more points that someone who has only bought a single season ticket. They would have bought more tickets than the season ticket holder so no issue with them getting a preference over them.

MassHibsteria
11-02-2016, 08:36 PM
Know what really annoys me? People who claim a system is flawed simply because it doesn't suit them and/or their circumstances.

People should remember that many fans can't afford a season ticket. Some can't get to every game for work or other personal reasons. It's only fair that fans who fall into either of these categories are proportionately recognised for their contribution to the club.

For what it's worth, my view is that provided a the rules of a loyalty system are fair, clear and applied consistently, then fair enough.

Badge
11-02-2016, 08:45 PM
How's it nonsense? The input to the club is different in that one pays directly to the club (the shareholder, who then gets shareholder rights, set of accounts, right to attend AGM, dividends should they be payable). The other gives money to HSL for membership to HSL, has no shareholder rights, has no right to attend the AGM and all the rest of it.

The end result is that the club gets the money, but you could then say the same for hospitality, or strip sales, or ticket purchases.

It's hardly inconsequential. There was no expectation when purchasing shares directly during the period that the option was available, that you or anyone else buying shares directly would in any way, shape, or form be entitled to loyalty points for that purchase. That was entirely transparent. HSL was positioned as an alternative option to buying shares directly. It was never sold as the same thing.

Can you explain how they are "exactly the same"?
Was there an expectation when joining HSL at the outset that anyone would be rewarded with loyalty points. When was it first announced that loyalty points were to be awarded? If it wasn't at the outset then people buying shares in their own name are clearly being treated differently.

CapitalGreen
11-02-2016, 09:02 PM
Was there an expectation when joining HSL at the outset that anyone would be rewarded with loyalty points. When was it first announced that loyalty points were to be awarded? If it wasn't at the outset then people buying shares in their own name are clearly being treated differently.

They are being treated differently regardless of any loyalty points. HSL and personal share ownership are two different things!

If there is no difference between HSL and buying shares why did some people do both at the outset?

Ozyhibby
11-02-2016, 09:06 PM
Was there an expectation when joining HSL at the outset that anyone would be rewarded with loyalty points. When was it first announced that loyalty points were to be awarded? If it wasn't at the outset then people buying shares in their own name are clearly being treated differently.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Badge
11-02-2016, 09:15 PM
They are being treated differently regardless of any loyalty points. HSL and personal share ownership are two different things!

If there is no difference between HSL and buying shares why did some people do both at the outset?

I'm aware they are 2 different things but my understanding of this is that shares were offered to supporters to try to raise funds for the club. There were 2 options available -: buy the shares in your own name or buy them through HSL. The object of the exercise was to raise funds for the club to invest in the team. I bought shares in my own name. If my money has been used in the same way as someone who contributes monthly through HSL why am I not being rewarded in the same way. We have both done what the club asked, invested money, but I am being treated differently.

CapitalGreen
11-02-2016, 09:22 PM
I'm aware they are 2 different things but my understanding of this is that shares were offered to supporters to try to raise funds for the club. There were 2 options available -: buy the shares in your own name or buy them through HSL. The object of the exercise was to raise funds for the club to invest in the team. I bought shares in my own name. If my money has been used in the same way as someone who contributes monthly through HSL why am I not being rewarded in the same way. We have both done what the club asked, invested money, but I am being treated differently.

You get invited to the AGM while members of HSL don't. Why are HSL being treated differently?

Badge
11-02-2016, 09:24 PM
You get invited to the AGM while members of HSL don't. Why are HSL being treated differently?
There were representatives of HSL at the AGM

Bostonhibby
11-02-2016, 09:25 PM
They are being treated differently regardless of any loyalty points. HSL and personal share ownership are two different things!

If there is no difference between HSL and buying shares why did some people do both at the outset?

I did it because we have no way of knowing what our club will be confronted with in the future so I wanted the chance of being in both camps, I also spent as much as I could afford to give in one lump sum for shares, before and after HSL but welcomed the chance to " pay as I go" for more potential involvement.

I think however people give their cash to the club this time around it's a display of some form of loyalty to the cause and am delighted the term loyalty includes as many Hibbies as it's possible to include.

ronaldo7
11-02-2016, 09:26 PM
Was there an expectation when joining HSL at the outset that anyone would be rewarded with loyalty points. When was it first announced that loyalty points were to be awarded? If it wasn't at the outset then people buying shares in their own name are clearly being treated differently.

No mention of loyalty points for joining HSL at the outset, they decided it some time down the line to generate funds, but have cocked up imo. Either give everyone who contributes through shares/HSL 100 points of don't give them at all.

Billy Whizz
11-02-2016, 09:28 PM
No mention of loyalty points for joining HSL at the outset, they decided it some time down the line to generate funds, but have cocked up imo. Either give everyone who contributes through shares/HSL 100 points of don't give them at all.

Ronaldo, too much politics in all this for me. I'm just a fan who wants to go to the games. Am I too simplistic

Badge
11-02-2016, 09:29 PM
No mention of loyalty points for joining HSL at the outset, they decided it some time down the line to generate funds, but have cocked up imo. Either give everyone who contributes through shares/HSL 100 points of don't give them at all.

I agree.

ronaldo7
11-02-2016, 09:29 PM
Ronaldo, too much politics in all this for me. I'm just a fan who wants to go to the games. Am I too simplistic

It's got nothing to do with the politics of it Billy, it's about fairness. Hibs have already said they've made a mistake, it's in their power to rectify it.:aok:

Kojock
11-02-2016, 09:31 PM
Know what really annoys me? People who claim a system is flawed simply because it doesn't suit them and/or their circumstances.

People should remember that many fans can't afford a season ticket. Some can't get to every game for work or other personal reasons. It's only fair that fans who fall into either of these categories are proportionately recognised for their contribution to the club.

For what it's worth, my view is that provided a the rules of a loyalty system are fair, clear and applied consistently, then fair enough.

But that's the point even with the loyalty scheme a walk up fan is never going to attain points anywhere near a season ticket holder who attends all away games. The system as it stands has created an elite group who are basically guaranteed a ticket for every away game.

Kojock
11-02-2016, 09:34 PM
It's got nothing to do with the politics of it Billy, it's about fairness. Hibs have already said they've made a mistake, it's in their power to rectify it.:aok:

Hence my thread title "back to the drawing board"

MassHibsteria
11-02-2016, 09:55 PM
But that's the point even with the loyalty scheme a walk up fan is never going to attain points anywhere near a season ticket holder who attends all away games. The system as it stands has created an elite group who are basically guaranteed a ticket for every away game.

As I understand it, the system as it stands gives season ticket holders preference over walk up fans.

It should also give regular walk up fans preference over occasional walk up fans.

The problem seems to be that demand for away tickets will sometimes exceed supply, not that the loyalty points system is fundamentally flawed. The alternative is drawing lots for everyone who want to go to a particular game, and meet a certain criteria. Which is, well, a lottery.

PS - I'm a season ticket holder who hasn't subscribed to HSL and have somehow amassed 440 points. As a rule of thumb I don't attend away games.

wookie70
11-02-2016, 09:59 PM
No mention of loyalty points for joining HSL at the outset, they decided it some time down the line to generate funds, but have cocked up imo. Either give everyone who contributes through shares/HSL 100 points of don't give them at all.

Agreed. There is learning to be done on how we generate the bands for purchases but the HSL decision is the only major mistake. It can be fixed very easily if your suggestion is put in place.

I don't agree with HSL getting points but the Club decided it was a good idea. That idea needs to be fair though and I think Shareholders have to get the points as well as anyone joining HSL.

ronaldo7
11-02-2016, 10:06 PM
Agreed. There is learning to be done on how we generate the bands for purchases but the HSL decision is the only major mistake. It can be fixed very easily if your suggestion is put in place.

I don't agree with HSL getting points but the Club decided it was a good idea. That idea needs to be fair though and I think Shareholders have to get the points as well as anyone joining HSL.

I can see benefits to the HSL scheme with the offer of 100 points, but all Hibs fans need to be treated the same imo. Shareholders need to get the points as well as any new recruits to the HSL scheme.

It seemed to generate a lot of new members, and so benefitting the club with cash. If that was the case then what's to stop them doing it again, and again, and again until we reach the 51% JOINTLY.

GreenCastle
12-02-2016, 08:56 AM
I still don't understand why they pick and choose game to give out points ?

It needs to be consistent for all home and away games.

You could argue that the game on Wednesday is a huge game along with the cup final and nothing is being given to those going.

StevieC
12-02-2016, 09:02 AM
You get invited to the AGM while members of HSL don't. Why are HSL being treated differently?

Why do you keep perpetrating these myths about HSL not having a vote, not having access to the accounts and not being invited to the AGM??

If I'm not mistaken, when HSL reaches a certain level they will even have a representative on the board of directors at the club? Something that supporters with a small shareholding will never have.

Stop trying to make out that shareholders have more rights than the HSL, that's nonsense and you know it.

HSL has more influence, access to information and rights than any supporter with a small shareholding. Trying to say otherwise is just being divisive.

Now, before you go off on one, I know that is half the purpose of HSL, and I totally support that. I'm just saying that you need to stop trying to make out that HSL are some sort of lower level than shareholders when that's clearly not the case.

StevieC
12-02-2016, 09:05 AM
I still don't understand why they pick and choose game to give out points ?

It needs to be consistent for all home and away games.

You could argue that the game on Wednesday is a huge game along with the cup final and nothing is being given to those going.

I don't think that's the case. So long as your ticket is purchased using your client reference then you will be given points for every game. The game on Tuesday night is worth 10 points, same as every home game.

BoomtownHibees
12-02-2016, 09:14 AM
Why do you keep perpetrating these myths about HSL not having a vote, not having access to the accounts and not being invited to the AGM??

If I'm not mistaken, when HSL reaches a certain level they will even have a representative on the board of directors at the club? Something that supporters with a small shareholding will never have.

Stop trying to make out that shareholders have more rights than the HSL, that's nonsense and you know it.

HSL has more influence, access to information and rights than any supporter with a small shareholding. Trying to say otherwise is just being divisive.

Now, before you go off on one, I know that is half the purpose of HSL, and I totally support that. I'm just saying that you need to stop trying to make out that HSL are some sort of lower level than shareholders when that's clearly not the case.

I don't think he is tbh. IMO he's pointing out that there are more differences between the 2 schemes than just the loyalty points issue

Andy74
12-02-2016, 09:20 AM
Why do you keep perpetrating these myths about HSL not having a vote, not having access to the accounts and not being invited to the AGM??

If I'm not mistaken, when HSL reaches a certain level they will even have a representative on the board of directors at the club? Something that supporters with a small shareholding will never have.

Stop trying to make out that shareholders have more rights than the HSL, that's nonsense and you know it.

HSL has more influence, access to information and rights than any supporter with a small shareholding. Trying to say otherwise is just being divisive.

Now, before you go off on one, I know that is half the purpose of HSL, and I totally support that. I'm just saying that you need to stop trying to make out that HSL are some sort of lower level than shareholders when that's clearly not the case.
Shareholders have direct rights as shareholders of the club. HSL members, myself included, do not. Members have a say in the overall influence HSL have but there are many things shareholders have a statutory right to that HSL members do not.

GreenCastle
12-02-2016, 09:25 AM
I don't think that's the case. So long as your ticket is purchased using your client reference then you will be given points for every game. The game on Tuesday night is worth 10 points, same as every home game.

I checked my account yesterday and there were 10 points added for he game - but then others were saying it was taken off?

Though there have been other games this season - some away games where points not awarded ?

Plus the cup final / ok nearly everyone will go but points should still be awarded.

People are flying back and spending lots of money to make the game - why don't they get any points for their efforts ? (May qualify for future tickets further down the line).

If they are using logistics as an excuse then the system isn't fit for purpose of coping with high demand in a short space of time.

CapitalGreen
12-02-2016, 09:38 AM
Why do you keep perpetrating these myths about HSL not having a vote, not having access to the accounts and not being invited to the AGM??

If I'm not mistaken, when HSL reaches a certain level they will even have a representative on the board of directors at the club? Something that supporters with a small shareholding will never have.

Stop trying to make out that shareholders have more rights than the HSL, that's nonsense and you know it.

HSL has more influence, access to information and rights than any supporter with a small shareholding. Trying to say otherwise is just being divisive.

Now, before you go off on one, I know that is half the purpose of HSL, and I totally support that. I'm just saying that you need to stop trying to make out that HSL are some sort of lower level than shareholders when that's clearly not the case.

You should have read that link I posted for you as your knowledge on this matter is not correct.

Brightside
12-02-2016, 09:44 AM
Just stop the whole thing. ST Holders get first dibs to everything... free for all after that.

Golden Bear
12-02-2016, 09:53 AM
Just stop the whole thing. ST Holders get first dibs to everything... free for all after that.

I agree 100%. A previously simple and fair process has now turned into an administrative nightmare and the new system has created more disharmony than what it's worth.

StevieC
12-02-2016, 09:53 AM
You should have read that link I posted for you as your knowledge on this matter is not correct.

If you want to start going down the route of legal status, etc etc etc then there are obviously differences, nobody here is ignorant to that. But when you are talking about someone that owns a couple of hundred shares from stock of millions then can you honestly say that the shareholding has any "real" difference?

Everything you've claimed HSL doesn't have (AGM, votes, accounts) they do have access to. Maybe you as an individual doesn't, but wasn't the whole point of HSL was strength in numbers? And that strength is more than small shareholders have. Even if they all grouped together they wouldn't have the guarantee of a member on the board of directors. And of course they wouldn't have the power to allocate loyalty points either.

Hiding behind the "legal status" of shareholders is exactly that .. hiding.