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Jamesconnolly
17-01-2016, 01:35 PM
Hi folks I already pay a small DD to HSL.I was wondering if anyone knew if I make a one off payment of 500 do I get a certificate?

O'Rourke3
17-01-2016, 01:39 PM
Hi folks I already pay a small DD to HSL.I was wondering if anyone knew if I make a one off payment of 500 do I get a certificate?
500 would buy 10000 shares direct

Sent via the bushes @ EM

Ozyhibby
17-01-2016, 01:40 PM
Hi folks I already pay a small DD to HSL.I was wondering if anyone knew if I make a one off payment of 500 do I get a certificate?

You def get a certificate when you become a full member (225 I think) but I'm not sure if there is any other certificate. Give it a go and see. [emoji3]


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ano hibby
17-01-2016, 01:41 PM
500 would buy 10000 shares direct

Sent via the bushes @ EM

Window to buy shares direct is now closed. Said at AGM they were thinking of reopening it though. Not sure about 500 & HSL..

Ozyhibby
17-01-2016, 01:43 PM
500 would buy 10000 shares direct

Sent via the bushes @ EM

Yes but unless you have shares already then you would have to spend money on an Independent Financial adviser as well. That's money not going towards the playing budget.
The share offer is closed now anyway.


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Jamesconnolly
17-01-2016, 01:54 PM
Cheers guys it dosent say anything on hsls site about certificate but I will email them ggtth

Eric
17-01-2016, 02:31 PM
Cheers guys it dosent say anything on hsls site about certificate but I will email them ggtth

You mention a certificate! Do you mean an HSL certificate or a Hibernian Share Certificate?

Once you have paid 225 into HSL you will receive an HSL certificate. This can be done in a single payment or by monthly payments which you can continue after you receive your certificate.

I believe Hibs do plan to make more shares available to purchase which would then give you a Hibernian Share Certificate.

My advice would be to go for both and then you would finish up with 2 certificates and access to the Hibs AGM. :wink:

mutley
17-01-2016, 02:47 PM
I hope they open direct sales again, I missed the last window due to being out the country


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Hermit Crab
17-01-2016, 05:10 PM
If what I heard at ht today is correct then it just shows how corrupt the hsl board are. Planning to bring the 100 points forward to make them eligible for tynecastle?? Is that correct? Do you only do big games?

marinello59
17-01-2016, 05:12 PM
If what I heard at ht today is correct then it just shows how corrupt the hsl board are. Planning to bring the 100 points forward to make them eligible for tynecastle?? Is that correct? Do you only do big games?

Corrupt? Behave, utterly stupid comment.
Edit. Weren't they always going to be added on Feb 1st making them eligible for the derby anyway?

Ged
17-01-2016, 05:12 PM
If what I heard at ht today is correct then it just shows how corrupt the hsl board are. Planning to bring the 100 points forward to make them eligible for tynecastle?? Is that correct? Do you only do big games?

That's quite an accusation. Wouldn't it be better to find out first before calling them corrupt?

cabbageandribs1875
17-01-2016, 05:14 PM
If what I heard at ht today is correct then it just shows how corrupt the hsl board are. Planning to bring the 100 points forward to make them eligible for tynecastle?? Is that correct? Do you only do big games?


incredible

Twiglet
17-01-2016, 05:18 PM
If what I heard at ht today is correct then it just shows how corrupt the hsl board are. Planning to bring the 100 points forward to make them eligible for tynecastle?? Is that correct? Do you only do big games?

The allocation of points isn't up to hsl it's Hibs that allocate them and the date that was decided initially will be the one that they stick to.

CapitalGreen
17-01-2016, 05:19 PM
If what I heard at ht today is correct then it just shows how corrupt the hsl board are. Planning to bring the 100 points forward to make them eligible for tynecastle?? Is that correct? Do you only do big games?

Nee naw ticket polis

DaveF
17-01-2016, 05:20 PM
If what I heard at ht today is correct then it just shows how corrupt the hsl board are. Planning to bring the 100 points forward to make them eligible for tynecastle?? Is that correct? Do you only do big games?

I hope you'll have the guts to post up some facts to backup this claim or apologise to the HSL board.

lucky
17-01-2016, 05:29 PM
If what I heard at ht today is correct then it just shows how corrupt the hsl board are. Planning to bring the 100 points forward to make them eligible for tynecastle?? Is that correct? Do you only do big games?

Jeezo, that's OTT. Delete your post. Your post is up there with Houston's on McGinn.

tooley
17-01-2016, 05:30 PM
I hope you'll have the guts to post up some facts to backup this claim or apologise to the HSL board.

If this is true, then surely 'loyalty points' must be for loyalty not cash input?
Therefore anyone 'buying points' can't be that loyal or they would have points going to watch Hibs every week?
Surely that means anyone biting hermit crabs post is either desperate to obtain a ticket through HSL points or feeling guilty they dont support the team every week?
A loyalty scheme shouldn't be mistaken for sainsburys nectar points.

Hermit Crab
17-01-2016, 05:31 PM
I hope you'll have the guts to post up some facts to backup this claim or apologise to the HSL board.

I said if it's correct.

Pretty Boy
17-01-2016, 05:32 PM
If this is true, then surely 'loyalty points' must be for loyalty not cash input?
Therefore anyone 'buying points' can't be that loyal or they would have points going to watch Hibs every week?
Surely that means anyone biting hermit crabs post is either desperate to obtain a ticket through HSL points or feeling guilty they dont support the team every week?
A loyalty scheme shouldn't be mistaken for sainsburys nectar points.

Or some of us both attend games most weeks (only 2nd game missed this season for me sadly) and pay into HSL and just object to the tone of the post.

Ged
17-01-2016, 05:33 PM
I said if it's correct.

That post was a ****ing disgrace and fine you know it.

CraigMNFitba
17-01-2016, 05:35 PM
Someone get the popcorn out...

lucky
17-01-2016, 05:40 PM
If this is true, then surely 'loyalty points' must be for loyalty not cash input?
Therefore anyone 'buying points' can't be that loyal or they would have points going to watch Hibs every week?
Surely that means anyone biting hermit crabs post is either desperate to obtain a ticket through HSL points or feeling guilty they dont support the team every week?
A loyalty scheme shouldn't be mistaken for sainsburys nectar points.

A huge assumption on your part and really quite a silly post. I think people object to HC claiming HSL are corrupt. Loyalty points are about the amount you spend on Hibs e.g STs and home games. That's why Hibs only allocate 5 points for an away fixture.

Bunter
17-01-2016, 05:41 PM
The whole problem is HSL getting points at all. Loyalty points were meant to be for attendance, NOT like a Tesco clubcard.
IF the HSL points allocation is moved to accommodate eligibility for purchasing H*arts tickets, then surely even Stevie Wonder could see there is muchas dodginess afoot.

lucky
17-01-2016, 05:42 PM
The whole problem is HSL getting points at all. Loyalty points were meant to be for attendance, NOT like a Tesco clubcard.
IF the HSL points allocation is moved to accommodate eligibility for purchasing H*arts tickets, then surely even Stevie Wonder could see there is muchas dodginess afoot.

You can buy points just now, it's called a half ST

southern hibby
17-01-2016, 05:43 PM
Gents,

Can I say was at the game and at half time eating a pie and 2 gents were talking about the hearts game. I know the sight of one and seen him at a few Hibs away games but anyway. He turns round and asked the other guy if he's going to the game, guy replies not got enough points. Other guy says well HSL are trying to get points added to points total for the game so watch this space as you should have enough if they get points added early.
Guy says thought it was Feb getting added other guy says they're trying to get points added early trust me I know one of them.

Now I'm not saying it's corrupt or info is correct I'm only passing on what I heard at game today. Doesn't effect me as I have full points and pay into HSL so either way I'll get a ticket but if this is true it really is opening an argument and a half between HSL members and non members.

GGTTH

blackpoolhibs
17-01-2016, 05:46 PM
Cant see any problem here, in fact the only reason i signed up was to get the extra points. :confused:

DaveF
17-01-2016, 05:46 PM
I said if it's correct.

So where are your facts? Looks like attention seeking rubbish to me and a piss poor slur on people working to bring fan ownership to fruition.

Hermit Crab
17-01-2016, 05:46 PM
You can buy points just now, it's called a half ST

90 points will be nowhere near enough for a tynecastle ticket.

CapitalGreen
17-01-2016, 05:47 PM
The whole problem is HSL getting points at all. Loyalty points were meant to be for attendance, NOT like a Tesco clubcard.
IF the HSL points allocation is moved to accommodate eligibility for purchasing H*arts tickets, then surely even Stevie Wonder could see there is muchas dodginess afoot.

Can you provide anything that shows Hibs saying points would be allocate solely for ticket purchases?

Ged
17-01-2016, 05:49 PM
Cant see any problem here, in fact the only reason i signed up was to get the extra points. :confused:

I think the issue is the assumption that HSL are corrupt based on an overheard conversation at the game today. We all know about the 100 points and when they'll be applied.

lucky
17-01-2016, 05:50 PM
90 points will be nowhere near enough for a tynecastle ticket.

never said it was, but the reality a half ST allows anyone to buy loyalty points upfront. Just as it did with full STs

tooley
17-01-2016, 05:51 PM
Can you provide anything that shows Hibs saying points would be allocate solely for ticket purchases?

Capital green, they don't have to say that,they called the scheme loyalty points, the hint is in the name.

blackpoolhibs
17-01-2016, 05:52 PM
I think the issue is the assumption that HSL are corrupt based on an overheard conversation at the game today. We all know about the 100 points and when they'll be applied.

Well i don't think they are corrupt, and have not seen any evidence to the contrary? :confused:

Hermit Crab
17-01-2016, 05:52 PM
Can you provide anything that shows Hibs saying points would be allocate solely for ticket purchases?

Loyalty points are distributed for attending games only.

marinello59
17-01-2016, 05:52 PM
I said if it's correct.

Back it up or withdraw the corrupt remark.

Ged
17-01-2016, 05:54 PM
Well i don't think they are corrupt, and have not seen any evidence to the contrary? :confused:

Indeed. You'd have to be unbelievably stupid to jump to that conclusion.

DaveF
17-01-2016, 05:54 PM
If this is true, then surely 'loyalty points' must be for loyalty not cash input?
Therefore anyone 'buying points' can't be that loyal or they would have points going to watch Hibs every week?
Surely that means anyone biting hermit crabs post is either desperate to obtain a ticket through HSL points or feeling guilty they dont support the team every week?
A loyalty scheme shouldn't be mistaken for sainsburys nectar points.

Eh, nah. I have enough points for a tynecastle ticket thanks.

I just think the post (and yours for that matter) is out of order.

CapitalGreen
17-01-2016, 05:56 PM
Capital green, they don't have to say that,they called the scheme loyalty points, the hint is in the name.

I don't believe Hibs define loyalty as narrowly as you do

BoomtownHibeys
17-01-2016, 05:57 PM
They announced that the points would be added at the start of February anyway. What's the issue?

tooley
17-01-2016, 05:57 PM
Eh, nah. I have enough points for a tynecastle ticket thanks.

I just think the post (and yours for that matter) is out of order.

How?

CapitalGreen
17-01-2016, 05:57 PM
Loyalty points are distributed for attending games only.

Clearly they are not. Have Hibs ever said they would be solely allocated for ticket purchases?

blackpoolhibs
17-01-2016, 05:58 PM
I don't believe Hibs define loyalty as narrowly as you do


And rightly so. :top marks

Ozyhibby
17-01-2016, 05:58 PM
Game is Feb 7th, points added Feb 1st. Don't see the problem. I'll get a ticket anyway but I'm happy for HSL members to be rewarded for their loyalty to the club.


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DaveF
17-01-2016, 06:00 PM
How?

I'd have thought that was obvious. Maybe you should re read your post and my reply.

DaveF
17-01-2016, 06:05 PM
How?

I'd have thought that was obvious. Maybe you should re read your post and my reply.

CapitalGreen
17-01-2016, 06:06 PM
http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/5241

Will points be awarded for other purchases I make?

The Club is looking at potentially linking other purchases to the loyalty scheme in the future. This may include retail parts of the Club but the priority just now is to launch the scheme with ticketing.

Ozyhibby
17-01-2016, 06:08 PM
Clearly they are not. Have Hibs ever said they would be solely allocated for ticket purchases?

No, in fact it was stated in the launch the club would expand as they saw fit


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Pretty Boy
17-01-2016, 06:17 PM
Out of interest what would be the point in allocating the HSL points early?

Those points were given, rightly or wrongly, to encourage more sign ups and the time period stipulated in that 'deal 'has passed. Bringing the points allocation forwards wouldn't increase participation in the scheme and wouldn't really offer anyone anything.

The whole allegation, wherever it came from, reeks of mischief making to me.

Bunter
17-01-2016, 06:17 PM
Can you provide anything that shows Hibs saying points would be allocate solely for ticket purchases?
I don't think I am betraying any confidences by posting that it was stated at the working groups to set up the loyalty scheme that for the avoidance of doubt, "loyalty points are for attendance only". These groups were chaired by Hibernian football club staff. Anyone who attended these meetings can verify this.

blackpoolhibs
17-01-2016, 06:18 PM
No, in fact it was stated in the launch the club would expand as they saw fit


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Exactly, as the club see fit, as it should be. :top marks

CapitalGreen
17-01-2016, 06:22 PM
I don't think I am betraying any confidences by posting that it was stated at the working groups to set up the loyalty scheme that for the avoidance of doubt, "loyalty points are for attendance only". These groups were chaired by Hibernian football club staff. Anyone who attended these meetings can verify this.

Regardless of what was said in these meetings, this is the Hibs official FAQ from the launch which states points may be allocated for other purchases in the future.

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/5241

marinello59
17-01-2016, 06:23 PM
Regardless of what was said in these meetings, this is the Hibs official FAQ from the launch which states points may be allocated for other purchases in the future.

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/5241

Aye, that has been the official line since the scheme was launched, the club were totally open about this from the start.

Ozyhibby
17-01-2016, 06:29 PM
Anyway, well done HSL members. We could not have afforded Stokes without them.
Still room for more to join.
http://www.hiberniansupporters.co.uk/phone/donate.html


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CapitalGreen
17-01-2016, 06:40 PM
"Whilst the underpinning principle of the loyalty points scheme will continue to be to reward attendance at matches, I would also like to make a couple of other observations: First, the loyalty scheme is something that we are learning about all the time. We will work hard to try to ensure we make it as fair as we can. But, second, we must also be free to choose to use loyalty points in other ways on occasion as we develop various areas of the Club."

Leanne Dempster, 17/10/15
http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/5787

Ged
17-01-2016, 06:47 PM
"Whilst the underpinning principle of the loyalty points scheme will continue to be to reward attendance at matches, I would also like to make a couple of other observations: First, the loyalty scheme is something that we are learning about all the time. We will work hard to try to ensure we make it as fair as we can. But, second, we must also be free to choose to use loyalty points in other ways on occasion as we develop various areas of the Club."

Leanne Dempster, 17/10/15
http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/5787


I wouldn't be surprised to see extra points being dished out as part of the early bird season ticket incentive.

Bunter
17-01-2016, 06:52 PM
"Whilst the underpinning principle of the loyalty points scheme will continue to be to reward attendance at matches, I would also like to make a couple of other observations: First, the loyalty scheme is something that we are learning about all the time. We will work hard to try to ensure we make it as fair as we can. But, second, we must also be free to choose to use loyalty points in other ways on occasion as we develop various areas of the Club."

Leanne Dempster, 17/10/15
http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/5787
Use, not allocate.
Distinct difference.
This quote doesn't add anything to the subject at hand.

HiBremian
17-01-2016, 06:57 PM
"Whilst the underpinning principle of the loyalty points scheme will continue to be to reward attendance at matches, I would also like to make a couple of other observations: First, the loyalty scheme is something that we are learning about all the time. We will work hard to try to ensure we make it as fair as we can. But, second, we must also be free to choose to use loyalty points in other ways on occasion as we develop various areas of the Club."

Leanne Dempster, 17/10/15
http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/5787

What people here need to remember is that supporting your club in 2016 is not the same as 1916. Yes, attendance at matches is of prime importance, but today there are plenty Hibs fans around the world who want to support the club but can't necessarily get to every match in Scotland. So we put money into HSL, into Hibs TV, into Kicks for Kids, into the Dnipro Appeal, and even into hibs.net:greengrin. When we can get back home we make sure the trip coincides with matches and buy merchandise from the club shop. Seems to me reasonable to suggest that this "loyalty" be rewarded, fine if not with the kinds of points season ticket holders are given. But then we're just part-time supporters, so what do we know? :cb

CapitalGreen
17-01-2016, 07:04 PM
Use, not allocate.
Distinct difference.
This quote doesn't add anything to the subject at hand.

And what about this previously provided answer from the FAQs?

"The Club is looking at potentially linking other purchases to the loyalty scheme in the future. This may include retail parts of the Club but the priority just now is to launch the scheme with ticketing."

Bostonhibby
17-01-2016, 07:19 PM
What people here need to remember is that supporting your club in 2016 is not the same as 1916. Yes, attendance at matches is of prime importance, but today there are plenty Hibs fans around the world who want to support the club but can't necessarily get to every match in Scotland. So we put money into HSL, into Hibs TV, into Kicks for Kids, into the Dnipro Appeal, and even into hibs.net:greengrin. When we can get back home we make sure the trip coincides with matches and buy merchandise from the club shop. Seems to me reasonable to suggest that this "loyalty" be rewarded, fine if not with the kinds of points season ticket holders are given. But then we're just part-time supporters, so what do we know? :cb

:top marks

I'm very pleased that hibs found a way to recognize the loyalty of those of us who sunk in our cash immediately without question or expectations and also those who continue to contribute now. It makes no difference to me when the scramble for tickets begins but I feel that my loyalty to my team is worth no less than someone who has a season ticket and lives close enough to get to more games than I currently can.

Hibbyradge
17-01-2016, 07:25 PM
This is a brilliant thread.

We'll only get 4500 tickets max, so 100 HSL loyalty points will make no difference to the ticket allocation.

Corrupt as , Hibs. :hilarious

Bostonhibby
17-01-2016, 07:28 PM
This is a brilliant thread.

We'll only get 4500 tickets max, so 100 HSL loyalty points will make no difference to the ticket allocation.

Corrupt as , Hibs. :hilarious

:grr:Dinnae let reality get in the way of a good storyline!

Albanian Hibs
17-01-2016, 07:32 PM
If what I heard at ht today is correct then it just shows how corrupt the hsl board are. Planning to bring the 100 points forward to make them eligible for tynecastle?? Is that correct? Do you only do big games?

Corrupt? 😂 you must be worried that you won't get a ticket 😂

Hibbyradge
17-01-2016, 07:33 PM
:grr:Dinnae let reality get in the way of a good storyline!

Sorry bro.

Bostonhibby
17-01-2016, 07:36 PM
Sorry bro.

:aok:

BOB MARLEYS DUG
17-01-2016, 08:17 PM
Seen this reply from Holyrood Boxing Twitter to a Hibs account on Twitter...

@holyroodboxing: good to get the #Fans back, but if #You are truly #Independent of the board #STOP pumping their #Rhetoric #HSLponzi lies


Idiotic.

Ozyhibby
17-01-2016, 08:58 PM
Seen this reply from Holyrood Boxing Twitter to a Hibs account on Twitter...

@holyroodboxing: good to get the #Fans back, but if #You are truly #Independent of the board #STOP pumping their #Rhetoric #HSLponzi lies


Idiotic.

HSL belongs to the members, it can be as independent of the board as the members want it to be.
Seems to be a lot of people against HSL but it's the HSL members who are acting and getting things done. They now own 7% of the club and are putting about 25k a month into the managers transfer budget. That's the equivalent of two top earners that are only here because of HSL.
There are new members joining everyday and it's going from strength to strength as fans realise the potential it has to benefit the club.
And it's not just the money, with every %age HSL purchases, the smaller the %age controlled by Rod Petrie. What's not to like about that?



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Gerard
17-01-2016, 09:05 PM
HSL belongs to the members, it can be as independent of the board as the members want it to be.
Seems to be a lot of people against HSL but it's the HSL members who are acting and getting things done. They now own 7% of the club and are putting about 25k a month into the managers transfer budget. That's the equivalent of two top earners that are only here because of HSL.
There are new members joining everyday and it's going from strength to strength as fans realise the potential it has to benefit the club.
And it's not just the money, with every %age HSL purchases, the smaller the %age controlled by Rod Petrie. What's not to like about that?



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Great post.

Baldy Foghorn
17-01-2016, 09:28 PM
HSL belongs to the members, it can be as independent of the board as the members want it to be.
Seems to be a lot of people against HSL but it's the HSL members who are acting and getting things done. They now own 7% of the club and are putting about 25k a month into the managers transfer budget. That's the equivalent of two top earners that are only here because of HSL.
There are new members joining everyday and it's going from strength to strength as fans realise the potential it has to benefit the club.
And it's not just the money, with every %age HSL purchases, the smaller the %age controlled by Rod Petrie. What's not to like about that?



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Yes HSL are investing, but it's not all abut HSL......Shareholders who bought direct have contributed as have ST holder's......Just seems HSL want to take all the credit for the signings IMO of course

And HSL is not independant of the Board as two Hibs Directors are on the Board of HSL..........

lucky
17-01-2016, 09:33 PM
Yes HSL are investing, bit it's not all abut HSL......Shareholders who bought direct have contributed as have ST holder's......Just seems HSL want to take all the credit for the signings IMO of course

HSL are making a difference and have to continually remind people of there worth due to some being anti them but also to try and get more fans signed up. But the bottom line all fans contribute if they are spending money on Hibs products

DaveF
17-01-2016, 09:36 PM
Yes HSL are investing, bit it's not all abut HSL......Shareholders who bought direct have contributed as have ST holder's......Just seems HSL want to take all the credit for the signings IMO of course

I don't think HSL are taking the credit. It probably just feels that way every time you read a post from Ozy :greengrin

As a shareholder and HSL member I certainly don't feel left out of any credit. Do you?

Baldy Foghorn
17-01-2016, 09:39 PM
I don't think HSL are taking the credit. It probably just feels that way every time you read a post from Ozy :greengrin

As a shareholder and HSL member I certainly don't feel left out of any credit. Do you?

As in both camps, I do feel more credit is being given to HSL....... Just my opinion mind

BOB MARLEYS DUG
17-01-2016, 09:52 PM
HSL belongs to the members, it can be as independent of the board as the members want it to be.
Seems to be a lot of people against HSL but it's the HSL members who are acting and getting things done. They now own 7% of the club and are putting about 25k a month into the managers transfer budget. That's the equivalent of two top earners that are only here because of HSL.
There are new members joining everyday and it's going from strength to strength as fans realise the potential it has to benefit the club.
And it's not just the money, with every %age HSL purchases, the smaller the %age controlled by Rod Petrie. What's not to like about that?




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I went out my way and messaged him your reply to me and he said this...

My friend perhaps you are in fact just a genuine fellow Hibs fan and not a puppet, however you are mis informed with regards to the HSL set up, I have no appetite to get into the nitty gritty of it but will say again what you've chose not to hear before The HSL was set up by the board, hand picked all the members and in fact is chaired by 3 board members. It's sole purpose is to generate working capital......fans donating do not own anything ( ask any financial advisor ) Its despicable that the club moot the idea that donations go to securing players. I shall continue to keep a spotlight on the HSLponzi ( pay in get nothing out kind of ponzi ) However I have no further desire to debate.......I wish you well and a good evening. Hopefully we secure promotion as we have an owner who has 750mil and would see us die rather than put his hand in his pocket.........instead he comes up with his take on community ownership sets up HSL and asks fans to donate.........only TF could think of that one!! Kind Regards Bradley.

Bostonhibby
17-01-2016, 10:02 PM
I went out my way and messaged him your reply to me and he said this...

My friend perhaps you are in fact just a genuine fellow Hibs fan and not a puppet, however you are mis informed with regards to the HSL set up, I have no appetite to get into the nitty gritty of it but will say again what you've chose not to hear before The HSL was set up by the board, hand picked all the members and in fact is chaired by 3 board members. It's sole purpose is to generate working capital......fans donating do not own anything ( ask any financial advisor ) Its despicable that the club moot the idea that donations go to securing players. I shall continue to keep a spotlight on the HSLponzi ( pay in get nothing out kind of ponzi ) However I have no further desire to debate.......I wish you well and a good evening. Hopefully we secure promotion as we have an owner who has 750mil and would see us die rather than put his hand in his pocket.........instead he comes up with his take on community ownership sets up HSL and asks fans to donate.........only TF could think of that one!! Kind Regards Bradley.
Maybe see how they think a Ponzi scheme works? It's on the internet!

At the end of the day there's plenty who are comfortable with the Share ownership arrangement. Many have a bit of financial acumen and the right to decide what they want to do with their cash.

Ozyhibby
17-01-2016, 10:28 PM
I went out my way and messaged him your reply to me and he said this...

My friend perhaps you are in fact just a genuine fellow Hibs fan and not a puppet, however you are mis informed with regards to the HSL set up, I have no appetite to get into the nitty gritty of it but will say again what you've chose not to hear before The HSL was set up by the board, hand picked all the members and in fact is chaired by 3 board members. It's sole purpose is to generate working capital......fans donating do not own anything ( ask any financial advisor ) Its despicable that the club moot the idea that donations go to securing players. I shall continue to keep a spotlight on the HSLponzi ( pay in get nothing out kind of ponzi ) However I have no further desire to debate.......I wish you well and a good evening. Hopefully we secure promotion as we have an owner who has 750mil and would see us die rather than put his hand in his pocket.........instead he comes up with his take on community ownership sets up HSL and asks fans to donate.........only TF could think of that one!! Kind Regards Bradley.

As far as I know there are only 2 board members on HSL board and neither are chair.
Of course it generates working capital, that's why it's appealing to fans. The money goes to the playing budget rather than buying shares from existing shareholders and the club getting nothing.
I just had a wee read up on Ponzi schemes and it looks nothing like one.
I have no sympathy with the view that STF should just be spending all money on Hibs. Plenty I think he is doing wrong mind you, including his choice of conduit.
HSL won't win over everybody but there is still plenty room to grow.


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Hibbyradge
17-01-2016, 10:34 PM
I went out my way and messaged him your reply to me and he said this...

My friend perhaps you are in fact just a genuine fellow Hibs fan and not a puppet, however you are mis informed with regards to the HSL set up, I have no appetite to get into the nitty gritty of it but will say again what you've chose not to hear before The HSL was set up by the board, hand picked all the members and in fact is chaired by 3 board members. It's sole purpose is to generate working capital......fans donating do not own anything ( ask any financial advisor ) Its despicable that the club moot the idea that donations go to securing players. I shall continue to keep a spotlight on the HSLponzi ( pay in get nothing out kind of ponzi ) However I have no further desire to debate.......I wish you well and a good evening. Hopefully we secure promotion as we have an owner who has 750mil and would see us die rather than put his hand in his pocket.........instead he comes up with his take on community ownership sets up HSL and asks fans to donate.........only TF could think of that one!! Kind Regards Bradley.

STF has 750m?

That's a lot of Ponzi.

green day
17-01-2016, 10:37 PM
This is a brilliant thread.

We'll only get 4500 tickets max, so 100 HSL loyalty points will make no difference to the ticket allocation.

Corrupt as , Hibs. :hilarious

Exactly. I have a season and a few other games, call it 220 points. Add in my HSL points and I am still pretty sure I'm not going to Tynecastle.

Some people are just radge and look for ways to have a pop.

Hermit Crab
17-01-2016, 10:38 PM
Exactly. I have a season and a few other games, call it 220 points. Add in my HSL points and I am still pretty sure I'm not going to Tynecastle.

Some people are just radge and look for ways to have a pop.


3400

Eyrie
17-01-2016, 11:05 PM
STF has 750m?

That's a lot of Ponzi.

HSL has obviously been very successful :thumbsup:

Pity Hibs didn't spend that money on an international striker that scores every second game.

Stantons Angel
17-01-2016, 11:49 PM
.
I hope you'll have the guts to post up some facts to backup this claim or apologise to the HSL board.+++


but there will be no facts or figures to backup this conversation over a pie and bovril at half time. Its such a ludicrous comment without back up posted on a public forum. I keep hearing everyone saying that the points given are for attendance at games only, as that shows the loyalty of the support to the team home and away and the the HSL members shouldnt get them.

Whilst i dont agree with the date being brought forward for a specific game, i do think that the HSL shares should be looked as a way of showing Loyalty to the club and this type of loyalty shouldnt be degraded in the way this post shows them.

After all we are all HIBS supporters!

Ged
18-01-2016, 08:52 AM
Maybe see how they think a Ponzi scheme works? It's on the internet!




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u99LjJ32qOo

blackpoolhibs
18-01-2016, 09:20 AM
I think its great that people like me who are part timers, help put a better team on the park for the very people who castigate the very same people for not going to games. :tee hee:

JimBHibees
18-01-2016, 09:25 AM
I think its great that people like me who are part timers, help put a better team on the park for the very people who castigate the very same people for not going to games. :tee hee:

Brilliant. :not worth:faf:

Waxy
18-01-2016, 09:28 AM
I think its great that people like me who are part timers, help put a better team on the park for the very people who castigate the very same people for not going to games. :tee hee:

That could be what gets alot of peoples goats.

blackpoolhibs
18-01-2016, 09:40 AM
In fact, i will go one better. I think folk like me who don't go that often are actually better Hibby's than those who go. We are contributing towards something we don't even see.

How good are we?

I think we should get even more loyalty point just for our generosity and selflessness. :smug:

CB_NO3
18-01-2016, 09:43 AM
Anyway, well done HSL members. We could not have afforded Stokes without them.
Still room for more to join.
http://www.hiberniansupporters.co.uk/phone/donate.html


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Are you on commission? :wink:

CB_NO3
18-01-2016, 09:47 AM
I went out my way and messaged him your reply to me and he said this...

My friend perhaps you are in fact just a genuine fellow Hibs fan and not a puppet, however you are mis informed with regards to the HSL set up, I have no appetite to get into the nitty gritty of it but will say again what you've chose not to hear before The HSL was set up by the board, hand picked all the members and in fact is chaired by 3 board members. It's sole purpose is to generate working capital......fans donating do not own anything ( ask any financial advisor ) Its despicable that the club moot the idea that donations go to securing players. I shall continue to keep a spotlight on the HSLponzi ( pay in get nothing out kind of ponzi ) However I have no further desire to debate.......I wish you well and a good evening. Hopefully we secure promotion as we have an owner who has 750mil and would see us die rather than put his hand in his pocket.........instead he comes up with his take on community ownership sets up HSL and asks fans to donate.........only TF could think of that one!! Kind Regards Bradley.
So you are Hibs Transfer News?

CallumLaidlaw
18-01-2016, 09:48 AM
In fact, i will go one better. I think folk like me who don't go that often are actually better Hibby's than those who go. We are contributing towards something we don't even see.

How good are we?

I think we should get even more loyalty point just for our generosity and selflessness. :smug:

:greengrin

Ozyhibby
18-01-2016, 09:49 AM
As in both camps, I do feel more credit is being given to HSL....... Just my opinion mind

The contribution from people who bought shares directly is every bit as welcome as the money raised by HSL.
The reason I push HSL so hard is because it allows so many more fans to become involved.
Only around 150 fans had the means and desire to participate in the share offer, while 10x that have joined HSL already and the number continues to grow.
Every member of HSL is as important as the next. Someone who is only putting in 7 a month is just as valued as someone who is putting in 100 a month. Everyone has the same voting rights. I think it's a great model for fan ownership.
The share issue was only open to people who could access a large lump sum but HSL is open to everyone with a regular income.
Another reason for pushing HSL is practical. HSL is still open, the share issue is now closed.

http://www.hiberniansupporters.co.uk/phone/donate.html

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Libby Hibby
18-01-2016, 09:50 AM
I hope the 100 points do get added before the tickets come out so I can benefit from it. I chose to be in HSL to help support the club and if that allows my points to get boosted then so be it.

Where I do disagree with the system is paying the minimum amount for 3 months and then stop so that 100 points are awarded. That shouldn't be allowed to happen but there are always folk trying to beat the system and flaunt with the rules for their own gain.

CropleyWasGod
18-01-2016, 09:54 AM
Are you on commission? :wink:

If he's not, he bloody should be.

:not worth

Ozyhibby
18-01-2016, 09:59 AM
If he's not, he bloody should be.

:not worth

I only get loyalty points though. I've got enough for the next ten derbies, 8 cup finals plus any visits to Dumbarton. [emoji23]


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NAE NOOKIE
18-01-2016, 10:17 AM
My take on things is this;

When the share issue was announced it was clear that there was a lot of people out there who would not have the ready cash to buy shares up front. In view of this HSL was set up to enable these fans to be part of an organisation where they would in effect be Hibs shareholders, though as part of a group effort. An initiative I fully support.

As far as I can see then the majority of people who joined HSL ( at least in the beginning ) were those without the readies to become independent shareholders by a one off purchase, or people who were unable to find an independent financial adviser, or at least one willing to sign the form for less than a silly fee.

I was lucky enough at the time the share issue was launched to have come into some money, which was enough to enable me to buy the minimum 200 worth ... only after spending a week scouring the borders for an FA willing to sign the form .... for nothing as it turned out, the nice man :greengrin

BUT:

It now seems to me that HSL and its members, far from being looked upon as 'not on a par' with independent shareholders, are being given preferential treatment over them. It is patently unfair that people signing up to buy shares in Hibernian Football Club through HSL are being allocated 'loyalty' points for doing so, when people like me who have also put their money into the club to buy the very same shares are not!

I have no problem with a loyalty points system where I cant accrue as many points as someone who follows Hibs home and away week in week out. I have a huge problem with a system where someone doing the same thing as me, but taking a longer time to do it, is being given preferential treatment over me.

IMO this is something Hibs need to address soon. If they do not they are going to end up causing a split between HSL and the rest of the Hibs support who chose to become shareholders without going through HSL.

I didn't give much thought to getting involved with the Hibs independent shareholders association, but if this sort of thing is going to continue, far from being something that might be desirable, an independent shareholders body is going to be necessary in order to protect the interests of those of us who are not members of HSL.

Ozyhibby
18-01-2016, 10:25 AM
My take on things is this;

When the share issue was announced it was clear that there was a lot of people out there who would not have the ready cash to buy shares up front. In view of this HSL was set up to enable these fans to be part of an organisation where they would in effect be Hibs shareholders, though as part of a group effort. An initiative I fully support.

As far as I can see then the majority of people who joined HSL ( at least in the beginning ) were those without the readies to become independent shareholders by a one off purchase, or people who were unable to find an independent financial adviser, or at least one willing to sign the form for less than a silly fee.

I was lucky enough at the time the share issue was launched to have come into some money, which was enough to enable me to buy the minimum 200 worth ... only after spending a week scouring the borders for an FA willing to sign the form .... for nothing as it turned out, the nice man :greengrin

BUT:

It now seems to me that HSL and its members, far from being looked upon as 'not on a par' with independent shareholders, are being given preferential treatment over them. It is patently unfair that people signing up to buy shares in Hibernian Football Club through HSL are being allocated 'loyalty' points for doing so, when people like me who have also put their money into the club to buy the very same shares are not!

I have no problem with a loyalty points system where I cant accrue as many points as someone who follows Hibs home and away week in week out. I have a huge problem with a system where someone doing the same thing as me, but taking a longer time to do it, is being given preferential treatment over me.

IMO this is something Hibs need to address soon. If they do not they are going to end up causing a split between HSL and the rest of the Hibs support who chose to become shareholders without going through HSL.

Shareholders have rights that HSL members don't though. You can attend the agm, the right to receive a dividend (I know it's Hibs we are talking about[emoji3]), a share of the asset disposal if the company is wound up etc.
There are differences.


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NAE NOOKIE
18-01-2016, 10:42 AM
Shareholders have rights that HSL members don't though. You can attend the agm, the right to receive a dividend (I know it's Hibs we are talking about[emoji3]), a share of the asset disposal if the company is wound up etc.
There are differences.


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Rights I personally couldn't care less about Ozy ................... Anyway, HSL will still be represented as a group at the AGM with a substantial influence compared to the vast majority of individual shareholders.

The issue here is that Hibs treat shareholders equally ... If they give one type of shareholder the ability to better access big match tickets than another type they are clearly not doing that.

Imagine the outcry if people paying in instalments for their season ticket were given 100 loyalty points and those paying up front were given none ... this forum would be in meltdown, and rightly so.

Ozyhibby
18-01-2016, 11:35 AM
Rights I personally couldn't care less about Ozy ................... Anyway, HSL will still be represented as a group at the AGM with a substantial influence compared to the vast majority of individual shareholders.

The issue here is that Hibs treat shareholders equally ... If they give one type of shareholder the ability to better access big match tickets than another type they are clearly not doing that.

Imagine the outcry if people paying in instalments for their season ticket were given 100 loyalty points and those paying up front were given none ... this forum would be in meltdown, and rightly so.

Most shareholders have enough loyalty points to go to any game they wish. I know you think there is a principle involved but I don't think this is a big issue with most fans. It's only ever talked about on here. Anyway, it's done now and the loyalty bonus is no longer open and it's not affecting Hearts tickets. Time to move on and support HSL's effort to help the club?


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ronaldo7
18-01-2016, 11:42 AM
Most shareholders have enough loyalty points to go to any game they wish. I know you think there is a principle involved but I don't think this is a big issue with most fans. It's only ever talked about on here. Anyway, it's done now and the loyalty bonus is no longer open and it's not affecting Hearts tickets. Time to move on and support HSL's effort to help the club?


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Quick question. Are all hsl members getting the 100 points or is it just those who signed up during tgat 3 month period?

Baldy Foghorn
18-01-2016, 11:59 AM
My take on things is this;

When the share issue was announced it was clear that there was a lot of people out there who would not have the ready cash to buy shares up front. In view of this HSL was set up to enable these fans to be part of an organisation where they would in effect be Hibs shareholders, though as part of a group effort. An initiative I fully support.

As far as I can see then the majority of people who joined HSL ( at least in the beginning ) were those without the readies to become independent shareholders by a one off purchase, or people who were unable to find an independent financial adviser, or at least one willing to sign the form for less than a silly fee.

I was lucky enough at the time the share issue was launched to have come into some money, which was enough to enable me to buy the minimum 200 worth ... only after spending a week scouring the borders for an FA willing to sign the form .... for nothing as it turned out, the nice man :greengrin

BUT:

It now seems to me that HSL and its members, far from being looked upon as 'not on a par' with independent shareholders, are being given preferential treatment over them. It is patently unfair that people signing up to buy shares in Hibernian Football Club through HSL are being allocated 'loyalty' points for doing so, when people like me who have also put their money into the club to buy the very same shares are not!

I have no problem with a loyalty points system where I cant accrue as many points as someone who follows Hibs home and away week in week out. I have a huge problem with a system where someone doing the same thing as me, but taking a longer time to do it, is being given preferential treatment over me.

IMO this is something Hibs need to address soon. If they do not they are going to end up causing a split between HSL and the rest of the Hibs support who chose to become shareholders without going through HSL.

I didn't give much thought to getting involved with the Hibs independent shareholders association, but if this sort of thing is going to continue, far from being something that might be desirable, an independent shareholders body is going to be necessary in order to protect the interests of those of us who are not members of HSL.

Good post NN......

Ozyhibby
18-01-2016, 12:04 PM
Quick question. Are all hsl members getting the 100 points or is it just those who signed up during tgat 3 month period?

Everyone who signed up before the cut off.


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Hibbyradge
18-01-2016, 12:05 PM
In fact, i will go one better. I think folk like me who don't go that often are actually better Hibby's than those who go. We are contributing towards something we don't even see.

How good are we?

I think we should get even more loyalty point just for our generosity and selflessness. :smug:

Huzzah!

I've officially been an uber fan since I moved to York.

Shares, HSL, Hibs TV, Leith Links and some games.

I should be able to weigh my loyalty points.

ronaldo7
18-01-2016, 12:09 PM
Everyone who signed up before the cut off.


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Thanks. Are hsl going to give 100 points to those who sign up from now on?

marinello59
18-01-2016, 12:13 PM
My take on things is this;

When the share issue was announced it was clear that there was a lot of people out there who would not have the ready cash to buy shares up front. In view of this HSL was set up to enable these fans to be part of an organisation where they would in effect be Hibs shareholders, though as part of a group effort. An initiative I fully support.

As far as I can see then the majority of people who joined HSL ( at least in the beginning ) were those without the readies to become independent shareholders by a one off purchase, or people who were unable to find an independent financial adviser, or at least one willing to sign the form for less than a silly fee.

.

I disagree with that. HSL was set up as a practical vehicle to achieve fan ownership, not as a cheaper alternative to owning your own shares. If the club only wanted to raise money then they would simply have had a share issue and been done with it. It may have seen a lot more individual fans owning shares but it wouldn't have resulted in the club being fan owned.
As for the loyalty points thing, there's a mountain being made out of a molehill over this. I don't think that HSL members should have been given loyalty points but my guess is that the impact on loyalty point bandings will be minimal.

marinello59
18-01-2016, 12:15 PM
Thanks. Are hsl going to give 100 points to those who sign up from now on?

No, that's why they had a widely known cut off date for this.

ronaldo7
18-01-2016, 12:17 PM
No, that's why they had a widely known cut off date for this.

Are you sure? Hsl won't offer any more points for future members? I would have thought they'd keep their powder dry for future deals.

marinello59
18-01-2016, 12:20 PM
Are you sure? Hsl won't offer any more points for future members? I would have thought they'd keep their powder dry for future deals.

HSL can't offer points. That's for the club to do.
After seeing the toys coming out of the pram from some over this offer I doubt they'll do this again. :greengrin

Baldy Foghorn
18-01-2016, 12:23 PM
HSL can't offer points. That's for the club to do.
After seeing the toys coming out of the pram from some over this offer I doubt they'll do this again. :greengrin

It was HSL who proposed the points to Hibs......Hibs agreed to their request.......

NAE NOOKIE
18-01-2016, 12:31 PM
Most shareholders have enough loyalty points to go to any game they wish. I know you think there is a principle involved but I don't think this is a big issue with most fans. It's only ever talked about on here. Anyway, it's done now and the loyalty bonus is no longer open and it's not affecting Hearts tickets. Time to move on and support HSL's effort to help the club?


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Well, its not that I 'think' there's a principle involved Ozy .... there clearly is one. If its not a big issue for most fans it should be, what's going to happen if we are in the play off final and there's 4,000 tickets for Kilmarnock or Motherwell up for grabs? The HSL points will make a difference then.

I cant make it clearer ... I have no problem with a points based system where a fan gains an advantage over me because he or she has accumulated more points than me by attending more matches, or if I was a walk up fan, by being a season ticket holder.

What I do object to is a fan being given an advantage over me even though my input to the club is exactly the same as theirs. If the club is going to run a points based system it has to be run on an equal basis for every fan .... not to favour one set over another, which this clearly does.

If the club is going to allocate points in order to encourage the sale of shares then the points should be given to everyone who has bought shares, not to some people who have bought shares.

Baldy Foghorn
18-01-2016, 12:35 PM
Well, its not that I 'think' there's a principle involved Ozy .... there clearly is one. If its not a big issue for most fans it should be, what's going to happen if we are in the play off final and there's 4,000 tickets for Kilmarnock or Motherwell up for grabs? The HSL points will make a difference then.

I cant make it clearer ... I have no problem with a points based system where a fan gains an advantage over me because he or she has accumulated more points than me by attending more matches, or if I was a walk up fan, by being a season ticket holder.

What I do object to is a fan being given an advantage over me even though my input to the club is exactly the same as theirs. If the club is going to run a points based system it has to be run on an equal basis for every fan .... not to favour one set over another, which this clearly does.

If the club is going to allocate points in order to encourage the sale of shares then the points should be given to everyone who has bought shares, not to some people who have bought shares.

Spot on again, although purchase of shares should fall into a reward scheme, as opposed to loyalty points......Simple but now totally ****** up IMO.......

ronaldo7
18-01-2016, 12:35 PM
HSL can't offer points. That's for the club to do.
After seeing the toys coming out of the pram from some over this offer I doubt they'll do this again. :greengrin

You know what I meant 59. HFC board members are board members of hsl. I just think you're guessing about whether they do the same in the future/or not. If I was them, I'd keep the option open to reward new members of the future.(In the know smiley)

lucky
18-01-2016, 12:38 PM
Well, its not that I 'think' there's a principle involved Ozy .... there clearly is one. If its not a big issue for most fans it should be, what's going to happen if we are in the play off final and there's 4,000 tickets for Kilmarnock or Motherwell up for grabs? The HSL points will make a difference then.

I cant make it clearer ... I have no problem with a points based system where a fan gains an advantage over me because he or she has accumulated more points than me by attending more matches, or if I was a walk up fan, by being a season ticket holder.

What I do object to is a fan being given an advantage over me even though my input to the club is exactly the same as theirs. If the club is going to run a points based system it has to be run on an equal basis for every fan .... not to favour one set over another, which this clearly does.

If the club is going to allocate points in order to encourage the sale of shares then the points should be given to everyone who has bought shares, not to some people who have bought shares.

Can't argue with that.

marinello59
18-01-2016, 12:46 PM
You know what I meant 59. HFC board members are board members of hsl. I just think you're guessing about whether they do the same in the future/or not. If I was them, I'd keep the option open to reward new members of the future.(In the know smiley)

Oh I hope they dont, I couldn't go another loyalty points thread.:greengrin

Ozyhibby
18-01-2016, 12:46 PM
Well, its not that I 'think' there's a principle involved Ozy .... there clearly is one. If its not a big issue for most fans it should be, what's going to happen if we are in the play off final and there's 4,000 tickets for Kilmarnock or Motherwell up for grabs? The HSL points will make a difference then.

I cant make it clearer ... I have no problem with a points based system where a fan gains an advantage over me because he or she has accumulated more points than me by attending more matches, or if I was a walk up fan, by being a season ticket holder.

What I do object to is a fan being given an advantage over me even though my input to the club is exactly the same as theirs. If the club is going to run a points based system it has to be run on an equal basis for every fan .... not to favour one set over another, which this clearly does.

If the club is going to allocate points in order to encourage the sale of shares then the points should be given to everyone who has bought shares, not to some people who have bought shares.

I don't think the intention was to favour one over the other. It was to try and encourage new members to HSL. It was an introductory offer and sometimes they can seem unfair to existing loyal customers but are necessary to attract new customers.
At the agm it was raised but most shareholders seemed to accept the club's position on it.



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Phil MaGlass
18-01-2016, 12:47 PM
Thanks. Are hsl going to give 100 points to those who sign up from now on?

Almost looks like a cheeky anagram:greengrin

Baldy Foghorn
18-01-2016, 12:48 PM
Oh I hope they dont, I couldn't go another loyalty points thread.:greengrin

Thing is J, the loyalty points scheme was a great idea and badly needed....This whole scenario now has unfortunately muddied the waters.......

Ozyhibby
18-01-2016, 12:50 PM
You know what I meant 59. HFC board members are board members of hsl. I just think you're guessing about whether they do the same in the future/or not. If I was them, I'd keep the option open to reward new members of the future.(In the know smiley)

I would think HSL would want to do whatever they could for their members but it's entirely up to the club who gets loyalty points. Hopefully they will have other ideas to help promote the scheme in the future though.


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Baldy Foghorn
18-01-2016, 12:52 PM
I don't think the intention was to favour one over the other. It was to try and encourage new members to HSL. It was an introductory offer and sometimes they can seem unfair to existing loyal customers but are necessary to attract new customers.
At the agm it was raised but most shareholders seemed to accept the club's position on it.


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They were not going to backtrack on it, so what was point of challenging LD on it? Someone raised a question on it and it was answered....

I am sure Hibs are well aware of the heated discussions surrounding it, as they received plenty of emails at the time (none of which were dealt with I may add)

ronaldo7
18-01-2016, 01:03 PM
I would think HSL would want to do whatever they could for their members but it's entirely up to the club who gets loyalty points. Hopefully they will have other ideas to help promote the scheme in the future though.


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If I was still to join Hsl, I'd leave it a while until the next offer comes up. We'll probably get one in the lead up to next season.

NAE NOOKIE
18-01-2016, 01:55 PM
HSL can't offer points. That's for the club to do.
After seeing the toys coming out of the pram from some over this offer I doubt they'll do this again. :greengrin

I find that comment extremely patronising mate.

This isn't a case of "toys out of the pram" .... This is a case of me wanting the football club I support to treat all of its supporters in the same manner, not some silly huff over a trivial issue.

I spend a bloody fortune following Hibs and the only thing I expect in return is that my support is given the same value as every other supporter of the club.

If its 300 points for buying a season ticket that's what I expect to get, no more, no less. If its 5 points for buying a ticket for a match I don't expect to get only 2 points for buying at the ticket at the ground while the guy buying on line gets 5. If I buy shares in it I expect to be treated exactly the same as the other people who have done so.

I fail to see how anybody can see a problem with that. And to be honest I don't want to hear any nonsense about introductory offers either, which I have heard mentioned about this situation ..... we are a football club, not bloody SKY sports.

This is not the same as for example cheap tickets being offered for a league game I have already paid full wack for on my season ticket. I still get to see the game, so no problem I'm all for it.

A situation where I have had exactly the same input into the club as another supporter, but that supporter might get to see an important game and I might not because the club have given him an advantage over me for no other reason than the way he has bought into the exact same share issue as I have is totally unacceptable.

Leithenhibby
18-01-2016, 01:58 PM
Thing is J, the loyalty points scheme was a great idea and badly needed....This whole scenario now has unfortunately muddied the waters.......

Had an invitation been sent to HSL, at the offset then the waters would be crystal clear by now, I'm sure.


I would think HSL would want to do whatever they could for their members but it's entirely up to the club who gets loyalty points. Hopefully they will have other ideas to help promote the scheme in the future though.


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:agree: In any organisation the members come first, and rightly so.


They were not going to backtrack on it, so what was point of challenging LD on it? Someone raised a question on it and it was answered....

I am sure Hibs are well aware of the heated discussions surrounding it, as they received plenty of emails at the time (none of which were dealt with I may add)

Leeann, was crystal clear at the AGM. :agree: It has never been the case that HSL would decide on loyalty points, and it never will be the case. Well, until they have a majority :greengrin


If I was still to join Hsl, I'd leave it a while until the next offer comes up. We'll probably get one in the lead up to next season.

Never put off to tomorrow what can be done today!!... http://www.hiberniansupporters.co.uk/donate.html

I don't think there will be an offer along the lines of loyalty points, IMO :wink:

marinello59
18-01-2016, 02:16 PM
I find that comment extremely patronising mate.

This isn't a case of "toys out of the pram" .... This is a case of me wanting the football club I support to treat all of its supporters in the same manner, not some silly huff over a trivial issue.

I spend a bloody fortune following Hibs and the only thing I expect in return is that my support is given the same value as every other supporter of the club.

If its 300 points for buying a season ticket that's what I expect to get, no more, no less. If its 5 points for buying a ticket for a match I don't expect to get only 2 points for buying at the ticket at the ground while the guy buying on line gets 5. If I buy shares in it I expect to be treated exactly the same as the other people who have done so.

I fail to see how anybody can see a problem with that. And to be honest I don't want to hear any nonsense about introductory offers either, which I have heard mentioned about this situation ..... we are a football club, not bloody SKY sports.

This is not the same as for example cheap tickets being offered for a league game I have already paid full wack for on my season ticket. I still get to see the game, so no problem I'm all for it.

A situation where I have had exactly the same input into the club as another supporter, but that supporter might get to see an important game and I might not because the club have given him an advantage over me for no other reason than the way he has bought into the exact same share issue as I have is totally unacceptable.

It wasn't meant to be patronising. A poor choice of words I admit but really not meant to be taken that seriously.
I'm not arguing with the rest of your post. I have said several times that this was a poor idea.

marinello59
18-01-2016, 02:21 PM
Thing is J, the loyalty points scheme was a great idea and badly needed....This whole scenario now has unfortunately muddied the waters.......

I agree, this has muddied the waters. I suspect the actual effect of this has been minimal, that's just a feeling though.

BOB MARLEYS DUG
18-01-2016, 04:38 PM
So you are Hibs Transfer News?

Nah haha. I follow them and and quite enjoy their tweets though. I saw them and the holyrood boxing account debating about HSL so I got involved and messaged HB mate.

NAE NOOKIE
18-01-2016, 04:52 PM
I disagree with that. HSL was set up as a practical vehicle to achieve fan ownership, not as a cheaper alternative to owning your own shares. If the club only wanted to raise money then they would simply have had a share issue and been done with it. It may have seen a lot more individual fans owning shares but it wouldn't have resulted in the club being fan owned.
As for the loyalty points thing, there's a mountain being made out of a molehill over this. I don't think that HSL members should have been given loyalty points but my guess is that the impact on loyalty point bandings will be minimal.

To be fair I didn't say folk were using HSL as a cheaper alternative, as far as I'm aware their input to HSL doesn't work out any cheaper than buying shares directly in the long run.

I don't have a problem with points being awarded to encourage folk to join HSL, in fact I think its a good idea. But it has to be done on a fair basis that does not disadvantage fans who have also bought shares outwith the HSL route.

I have no idea about the ins and outs of these sort of things, but when a company has a share issue, is it even legal for that company to give incentives to one investor ( in this case HSL ) which enables them to attract the finance required to acquire a larger stake in the company than otherwise might be the case?

Just to be clear .... I have no problem with HSL over this issue, my problem is most definitely with Hibs.

Arch Stanton
18-01-2016, 05:33 PM
I don't think their is a real point of principle here. Since this Loyalty Point allocation benefits the club (which it most certainly does by attracting more income) then it will by definition benefit shareholders.

It won't benefit HSL members since they don't own shares.

Baldy Foghorn
18-01-2016, 05:49 PM
Had an invitation been sent to HSL, at the offset then the waters would be crystal clear by now, I'm sure.

One of HSL Director's was at initial meeting where upon it was agreed the loyalty points was for attendance, anything else other would come under rewards scheme.

Why would HSL be invited anyway, their mandate was only to collect money and purchase shares.....?

blackpoolhibs
18-01-2016, 05:50 PM
I don't think their is a real point of principle here. Since this Loyalty Point allocation benefits the club (which it most certainly does by attracting more income) then it will by definition benefit shareholders.

It won't benefit HSL members since they don't own shares.

For me it makes no difference who it benefits, the main reason i'm in HSL was to gain the loyalty points.

Oscar T Grouch
18-01-2016, 05:57 PM
Is the main difference no that the HSL sign ups can go on indefinitely and the direct buyers don't? Or is that too simplistic? I see where both sides are coming from though. I did join HSL whilst the offer was on but I don't need the 100 points, pretty sure they'll put me over the 500 mark. It was a good idea insomuch as it got quite a few Hibbies to sign up to HSL but it seems less good now. Maybe thy could have just chucked 50 points at all HSL members and direct share buyers alike?

Arch Stanton
18-01-2016, 06:17 PM
Is the main difference no that the HSL sign ups can go on indefinitely and the direct buyers don't? Or is that too simplistic? I see where both sides are coming from though. I did join HSL whilst the offer was on but I don't need the 100 points, pretty sure they'll put me over the 500 mark. It was a good idea insomuch as it got quite a few Hibbies to sign up to HSL but it seems less good now. Maybe thy could have just chucked 50 points at all HSL members and direct share buyers alike?

It can't go on indefinitely - there was a share issue of a fixed number of shares and when they have been sold then that's it.

I actually don't think they thought of being unfair to direct buyers - probably just didn't occur to them.

And if they don't hold email addresses for shareholders it would be a bit of a nightmare - although maybe they do.

Oscar T Grouch
18-01-2016, 06:38 PM
It can't go on indefinitely - there was a share issue of a fixed number of shares and when they have been sold then that's it.

I actually don't think they thought of being unfair to direct buyers - probably just didn't occur to them.

And if they don't hold email addresses for shareholders it would be a bit of a nightmare - although maybe they do.

I think it'd be a good idea for it to continue after the share issue is complete, a managers war chest if you like, maybe at a reduced rate. I don't miss the money out my account and would be happy to give Hibs a bit to work with over and above the budget. I would imagine if its guaranteed to go to the manager they'd be a few who'd want to continue. Anyways, getting ahead of myself, got another 30% to buy yet!!

SON OF PADDY
18-01-2016, 07:18 PM
[QUOTE=NAE NOOKIE;4551758]I find that comment extremely patronising mate.

This isn't a case of "toys out of the pram" .... This is a case of me wanting the football club I support to treat all of its supporters in the same manner, not some silly huff over a trivial issue.

I spend a bloody fortune following Hibs and the only thing I expect in return is that my support is given the same value as every other supporter of the club.

If its 300 points for buying a season ticket that's what I expect to get, no more, no less. If its 5 points for buying a ticket for a match I don't expect to get only 2 points for buying at the ticket at the ground while the guy buying on line gets 5. If I buy shares in it I expect to be treated exactly the same as the other people who have done so.

I fail to see how anybody can see a problem with that. And to be honest I don't want to hear any nonsense about introductory offers either, which I have heard mentioned about this situation ..... we are a football club, not bloody SKY sports.

This is not the same as for example cheap tickets being offered for a league game I have already paid full wack for on my season ticket. I still get to see the game, so no problem I'm all for it.

A situation where I have had exactly the same input into the club as another supporter, but that supporter might get to see an important game and I might not because the club have given him an advantage over me for no other reason than the way he has bought into the exact same share issue as I have is totally unacceptable.[/QUOthink y


Thanks for a great post, you've said exactly what many will be thinking.

DaveF
18-01-2016, 07:39 PM
I find that comment extremely patronising mate.

This isn't a case of "toys out of the pram" .... This is a case of me wanting the football club I support to treat all of its supporters in the same manner, not some silly huff over a trivial issue.

I spend a bloody fortune following Hibs and the only thing I expect in return is that my support is given the same value as every other supporter of the club.

If its 300 points for buying a season ticket that's what I expect to get, no more, no less. If its 5 points for buying a ticket for a match I don't expect to get only 2 points for buying at the ticket at the ground while the guy buying on line gets 5. If I buy shares in it I expect to be treated exactly the same as the other people who have done so.

I fail to see how anybody can see a problem with that. And to be honest I don't want to hear any nonsense about introductory offers either, which I have heard mentioned about this situation ..... we are a football club, not bloody SKY sports.

This is not the same as for example cheap tickets being offered for a league game I have already paid full wack for on my season ticket. I still get to see the game, so no problem I'm all for it.

A situation where I have had exactly the same input into the club as another supporter, but that supporter might get to see an important game and I might not because the club have given him an advantage over me for no other reason than the way he has bought into the exact same share issue as I have is totally unacceptable.

As has been stated by others, while the intention was no doubt well meaning, it's turned into a bit of a farce - but totally unacceptable? Really?

LD already apologised and tried to claw back some ground (probably failing :greengrin) with her statement on the 'fishy site back in October.

I bought shares first and then signed up to HSL in late September because I felt I could afford to chuck a tenner a month at it. I wasn't even aware of the 100 points thing when I did so, but clearly it works up a few people in other ways!

matty_f
18-01-2016, 07:57 PM
Is anyone likely to miss out on a ticket due to the HSL allocation of loyalty points? I'm guessing that there are some games that folk might miss out on just now, do the points make any significant difference?

Brooster
18-01-2016, 08:19 PM
Is the main difference no that the HSL sign ups can go on indefinitely and the direct buyers don't? Or is that too simplistic? I see where both sides are coming from though. I did join HSL whilst the offer was on but I don't need the 100 points, pretty sure they'll put me over the 500 mark. It was a good idea insomuch as it got quite a few Hibbies to sign up to HSL but it seems less good now. Maybe thy could have just chucked 50 points at all HSL members and direct share buyers alike?

Good post Vince and a good idea to reward all share buyers with 50 points each. The 100 points was a marketing ploy to entice more people to contribute, perhaps it couldve been better thought and planned out but the intention was to generate funds for the club....and Im grateful to those involved for workin hard for the benefit of the club. We could argue all day about the pros and cons but why not agree to differ, support the decision makers and volunteers and unite behind the team for the massive games which are coming up. GGTTH.

Hibbyradge
18-01-2016, 08:29 PM
Is anyone likely to miss out on a ticket due to the HSL allocation of loyalty points? I'm guessing that there are some games that folk might miss out on just now, do the points make any significant difference?

I don't think they'll make the slightest difference.

Danderhall Hibs
18-01-2016, 08:57 PM
Is anyone likely to miss out on a ticket due to the HSL allocation of loyalty points? I'm guessing that there are some games that folk might miss out on just now, do the points make any significant difference?

There can't be. Only time it might matter is if we're in the playoff v Falkirk or the playoff final v Hamilton (or the like) where the allocation's won't be massive.

But hopefully we won't be and if we are hopefully the allocation will be big enough not to matter.

And the 100 points will drop off next year won't they?

Hermit Crab
18-01-2016, 10:35 PM
There can't be. Only time it might matter is if we're in the playoff v Falkirk or the playoff final v Hamilton (or the like) where the allocation's won't be massive.

But hopefully we won't be and if we are hopefully the allocation will be big enough not to matter.

And the 100 points will drop off next year won't they?

Dumbarton away. Only 800 tickets. Next round of the cup if we get there. Still a few small stadium teams left in. It will push a few fans down the pecking order for tynecastle only 3400 tickets. The 100 points being added could see people who've attended every game end up with less points than someone who's not been to every game. That's is not right. Irrelevant if they drop off at the end of the season, it's games this season that will affect people.

matty_f
18-01-2016, 10:48 PM
Dumbarton away. Only 800 tickets. Next round of the cup if we get there. Still a few small stadium teams left in. It will push a few fans down the pecking order for tynecastle only 3400 tickets. The 100 points being added could see people who've attended every game end up with less points than someone who's not been to every game. That's is not right. Irrelevant if they drop off at the end of the season, it's games this season that will affect people.

Are folk complaining about a day that might never come?

Logically, there will be some HSL subscribers who are already in the top load of loyalty points.

There will also be plenty who got the points who don't go to, or plan to go to, any away games.

I don't know if anyone missed out on Dumbarton tickets last time, if so, there's no real difference this time. If not, i suspect we are not going to have a sudden surge of folk desperate to get a ticket.

We've already been to Ibrox twice. I'd be astonished if folk already in the top bandings for tickets don't get tickets for the PBS or subsequent rounds.

Danderhall Hibs
18-01-2016, 10:50 PM
Are folk complaining about a day that might never come?

Pre empting it - if it happens it'll be too late to fix it?

Just like the goal difference "problem" really...

Hermit Crab
18-01-2016, 10:51 PM
Are folk complaining about a day that might never come?

Dumbarton away will come. I find it shocking that fans who've attended every game can end up with less points that someone who not been to every game. Is that right or wrong in your opinion?

matty_f
18-01-2016, 10:54 PM
Dumbarton away will come. I find it shocking that fans who've attended every game can end up with less points that someone who not been to every game. Is that right or wrong in your opinion?

I've edited my post above. Did anyone miss out on Dumbarton tickets last time?

Eyrie
18-01-2016, 10:55 PM
Dumbarton away will come. I find it shocking that fans who've attended every game can end up with less points that someone who not been to every game. Is that right or wrong in your opinion?

Depends on what you think loyalty points are meant to reward.

Is it supporting the team at games, in which case away matches outrank shareholders and HSL members?

Or is it putting money into the club, in which case shareholders and HSL members should outrank away games?

Or is it both?

Hermit Crab
18-01-2016, 10:55 PM
I've edited my post above. Did anyone miss out on Dumbarton tickets last time?

Points weren't on the total last time round though. They will be this time.

Hermit Crab
18-01-2016, 10:56 PM
Depends on what you think loyalty points are meant to reward.

Is it supporting the team at games, in which case away matches outrank shareholders and HSL members?

Or is it putting money into the club, in which case shareholders and HSL members should outrank away games?

Or is it both?

Loyalty are to be awarded for attending games, nothing else. That came from Hibs.

matty_f
18-01-2016, 10:56 PM
Dumbarton away will come. I find it shocking that fans who've attended every game can end up with less points that someone who not been to every game. Is that right or wrong in your opinion?

Also to answer your question, i don't think it's either right or wrong. I think it's irrelevant unless there's a situation where the difference has any real impact.

It doesn't matter if you have 10 points or a 1000 points if folk who want a ticket get one.

Andy74
18-01-2016, 10:58 PM
Loyalty are to be awarded for attending games, nothing else. That came from Hibs.

They have evidently agreed to something else now.

matty_f
18-01-2016, 10:58 PM
Points weren't on the total last time round though. They will be this time.

So it only matters if the demand is there. If the demand is not there you'll get a ticket anyway. If we didn't have anyone missing out last time then someone with no points at all could have got one.

Eyrie
18-01-2016, 11:00 PM
Loyalty are to be awarded for attending games, nothing else. That came from Hibs.

The club said at the start that it could be expanded beyond just ticket purchases.

Link 1 (http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/5241)

Will points be awarded for other purchases I make?

The Club is looking at potentially linking other purchases to the loyalty scheme in the future. This may include retail parts of the Club but the priority just now is to launch the scheme with ticketing.

Link 2 (http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/5787)

Whilst the underpinning principle of the loyalty points scheme will continue to be to reward attendance at matches, I would also like to make a couple of other observations: First, the loyalty scheme is something that we are learning about all the time. We will work hard to try to ensure we make it as fair as we can. But, second, we must also be free to choose to use loyalty points in other ways on occasion as we develop various areas of the Club.

Hermit Crab
18-01-2016, 11:02 PM
They have evidently agreed to something else now.

This 100 points thing was sneaky by hsl. Clearly a carrot to dangle. Now what's to stop people making the minimum d/debit payments, getting the points then cancelling the d/d's. Easy 100 loyalty points. I'd be amazed if that didn't happen.

matty_f
18-01-2016, 11:02 PM
This 100 points thing was sneaky by hsl. Clearly a carrot to dangle. Now what's to stop people making the minimum d/debit payments, getting the points then cancelling the d/d's. Easy 100 loyalty points. I'd be amazed if that's didn't happen.

It won't matter, imho.

Eyrie
18-01-2016, 11:05 PM
This 100 points thing was sneaky by hsl. Clearly a carrot to dangle. Now what's to stop people making the minimum d/debit payments, getting the points then cancelling the d/d's. Easy 100 loyalty points. I'd be amazed if that didn't happen.

How many people will do that? And what's to stop the club cancelling the points for those few who do?

Baldy Foghorn
18-01-2016, 11:05 PM
This 100 points thing was sneaky by hsl. Clearly a carrot to dangle. Now what's to stop people making the minimum d/debit payments, getting the points then cancelling the d/d's. Easy 100 loyalty points. I'd be amazed if that didn't happen.

You would assume if in that scenario the points would be removed..............Close the loophole

Hermit Crab
18-01-2016, 11:05 PM
So it only matters if the demand is there. If the demand is not there you'll get a ticket anyway. If we didn't have anyone missing out last time then someone with no points at all could have got one.

Demand is obviously going to be there for the derby game. That is what the talk at the Falkirk game was all about. Bringing to points tally forward to make more people eligible. People that wouldn't have a chance at a ticket normally. Big game, big demand everyone knows that points mean tickets in this situation.

CropleyWasGod
18-01-2016, 11:06 PM
This 100 points thing was sneaky by hsl. Clearly a carrot to dangle. Now what's to stop people making the minimum d/debit payments, getting the points then cancelling the d/d's. Easy 100 loyalty points. I'd be amazed if that didn't happen.

Why would someone do that?

To ensure a ticket for Dumbarton?

Hermit Crab
18-01-2016, 11:07 PM
How many people will do that? And what's to stop the club cancelling the points for those few who do?

I don't know if the club will cancel points if this happens, it would surely be up to hsl to inform the club that someone's cancelled their payments?

Andy74
18-01-2016, 11:07 PM
Demand is obviously going to be there for the derby game. That is what the talk at the Falkirk game was all about. Bringing to points tally forward to make more people eligible. People that wouldn't have a chance at a ticket normally. Big game, big demand everyone knows that points mean tickets in this situation.

I think they will flex the points to what works. If folk get ahead in any way they probably attend and do HSL. Seems fair enough.

Eyrie
18-01-2016, 11:07 PM
I don't know if the club will cancel points if this happens, it would surely be up to hsl to inform the club that someone's cancelled their payments?

Can you think of any reason why HSL wouldn't do that?

Hermit Crab
18-01-2016, 11:08 PM
Why would someone do that?

To ensure a ticket for Dumbarton?

If the points tally is added before the 1st of Feb then tynecastle. Also playoffs if we are in them.

matty_f
18-01-2016, 11:08 PM
Demand is obviously going to be there for the derby game. That is what the talk at the Falkirk game was all about. Bringing to points tally forward to make more people eligible. People that wouldn't have a chance at a ticket normally. Big game, big demand everyone knows that points mean tickets in this situation.

So what happens just now? The tickets go on release to the people that have the most points - what level is that set at?

Baldy Foghorn
18-01-2016, 11:08 PM
Demand is obviously going to be there for the derby game. That is what the talk at the Falkirk game was all about. Bringing to points tally forward to make more people eligible. People that wouldn't have a chance at a ticket normally. Big game, big demand everyone knows that points mean tickets in this situation.

I don't think the points will be added until the original date mate, too much hullaballoo. Would be an own goal.....

Eyrie
18-01-2016, 11:09 PM
If the points tally is added before the 1st of Feb then tynecastle. Also playoffs if we are in them.

Has it been confirmed about the points being added before 1 Feb, or is that just a random rumour?

Hermit Crab
18-01-2016, 11:09 PM
You would assume if in that scenario the points would be removed..............Close the loophole

You would hope so.

Hermit Crab
18-01-2016, 11:10 PM
I don't think the points will be added until the original date mate, too much hullaballoo. Would be an own goal.....

A huge og mate. Would piss a lot of people off.


Has it been confirmed about the points being added before 1 Feb, or is that just a random rumour?

No, nothing confirmed yet.

CropleyWasGod
18-01-2016, 11:11 PM
If the points tally is added before the 1st of Feb then tynecastle. Also playoffs if we are in them.

So you're saying that someone heard the Cup draw and said "right, I'll join HSL to get 100 points."

The points are being added in February. The tickets will be on sale before then,

So your guy won't benefit.

3pm
18-01-2016, 11:11 PM
Was struggling to sleep last night. Should have read this thread. :greengrin

Baldy Foghorn
18-01-2016, 11:12 PM
A huge og mate. Would piss a lot of people off.



No, nothing confirmed yet.

I will stick my neck out and say it was purely conjecture........

Hermit Crab
18-01-2016, 11:13 PM
So you're saying that someone heard the Cup draw and said "right, I'll join HSL to get 100 points."

The points are being added in February. The tickets will be on sale before then,

So your guy won't benefit.

Can't join now and get 100 points. Anyone who joined before the cut off dates scores 100 though.

I'm out now. Working in the morning.

CropleyWasGod
18-01-2016, 11:14 PM
Can't join now and get 100 points. Anyone who joined before the cut off dates scores 100 though.

I'm out now. Working in the morning.

That blows your scenario then :greengrin

Hermit Crab
18-01-2016, 11:15 PM
That blows your scenario then :greengrin

No it doesn't.......... Good night.

CropleyWasGod
18-01-2016, 11:17 PM
No it doesn't.......... Good night.

It does. People couldn't have joined HSL just to get points and help them get tickets for Tynecastle. The draw was after the cut-off date, no?

AndyB_70
19-01-2016, 12:05 AM
My tuppence worth and why adding the points date shouldn't be brought forward (if it ever was going to be) :greengrin

The tickets will be on sale a couple of weeks before the match on the 7th. This is before the additional 100 points are added. I'm a lucky so and so and have had a season ticket for umpteen years and because of work/family stuff I can't go to every away game. This means I'm short of having the full tally of points. Say this leaves me right at the lower end of the points barrier for a ticket for *********** but just scrap in there for the first release so I'm all good. The date for the HSL chaps getting their 100 points is then brought forward for some bizarre reason. This means that some of them get their points and now leapfrog my points total pushing me out of the first batch of sales as the numbers would rise and the points required for the first batch of sales would change. I'd be well hacked off if that was the case.

The date was set and everyone knew that date for the additional 100 points. What would be a reason for bringing it forward and once more causing needless friction between the fans, HSL and the club? :confused:

NAE NOOKIE
19-01-2016, 12:54 AM
I don't think their is a real point of principle here. Since this Loyalty Point allocation benefits the club (which it most certainly does by attracting more income) then it will by definition benefit shareholders.

It won't benefit HSL members since they don't own shares.

How allocating points to supporters benefits the club is utterly immaterial to this discussion, as is any indirect benefit that shareholders may gain by the value of shares rising to 3p a share from the original 2p because thousands of folk decided to join HSL on the back of a reward of 100 loyalty points.

The point of principle here is so bloody obvious you can see it from space.

Hibs had a share issue. Some people bought shares independently, some joined HSL, an organisation whose only purpose is to buy shares in the club. The purpose of this share issue was to pass 51% of the club over to fan control...... that's fan control NOT HSL control ..... and to indirectly raise money for the benefit of the club.

There is not a person on the planet who bought shares, or joined HSL, who did so in anything other than the full knowledge that the shares in anything other than an amount in the millions were, and always will be, utterly worthless in a financial sense. The government imposed legal requirement to have a financial adviser sign the application form in share issues of this nature is to ensure that anybody signing up to it is fully aware what a terrible investment it is ..... not so they have an expert at hand to tell them what to do when the shares reach 10 each in value.

We as fans know that the purchase of shares in Hibs either personally, or as a member of HSL, is a purely sentimental act and more to the point Tom Farmer, Rod Petrie, Leeann Dempster and the tea lady at Easter Road all know it too.

That is where the point of principle comes in:

Hibernian football club relied on peoples love of the club to make the share issue a success, they relied on peoples loyalty to the club and their wish to see it succeed to shift the shares. That is the be all and end all of the attraction of Hibs shares to anybody. It was my part as a fan in this process to chuck my common sense out of the window and take 200 I could have used for a thousand other things and spend it on a worthless bit of paper that tells folk I love my football club so much I was prepared to enter into a financial agreement with it that was the equivalent of taking that 200 into my back garden and setting fire to it, for all the good it would ever do my bank balance.

In return for that the only thing I expect from Hibernian football club ( which I now own a billionth of or whatever ) is that I am treated exactly the same as my fellow supporters, no better, no worse. If folk signing up to HSL as a way of having a stake in their club get loyalty points as a reward for doing so, then I as a fan who also bought shares should expect the same treatment. What Hibs have done here is elevate members of HSL above their other shareholding supporters by giving them a better chance of obtaining a ticket for certain games, the number of fans involved in this allocation of loyalty points who may actually benefit over their fellow shareholders from those points does not matter, not if its 10 not if its 10,000.

That's the principle here.

marinello59
19-01-2016, 06:20 AM
Are folk complaining about a day that might never come?

Logically, there will be some HSL subscribers who are already in the top load of loyalty points.

There will also be plenty who got the points who don't go to, or plan to go to, any away games.

I don't know if anyone missed out on Dumbarton tickets last time, if so, there's no real difference this time. If not, i suspect we are not going to have a sudden surge of folk desperate to get a ticket.

We've already been to Ibrox twice. I'd be astonished if folk already in the top bandings for tickets don't get tickets for the PBS or subsequent rounds.

The last Dumbarton game went to public sale after a lot of anguish about points on here.

marinello59
19-01-2016, 06:24 AM
Loyalty are to be awarded for attending games, nothing else. That came from Hibs.

When was that said publicly?I seem to recall them saying that the loyalty system would evolve to include other things over time.

lord bunberry
19-01-2016, 09:00 AM
6 pages of nonsense because someone overheard a guy in the queue for a pie at the Falkirk game saying loyalty points were going to be added early. As things stand the points will be added on the 1st of February, until that changes this discussion is pointless.

blackpoolhibs
19-01-2016, 09:05 AM
There is much more to Hibs than attending games, and some folk show their loyalty in other ways. And in my opinion that should also be rewarded with loyalty points.

As i said earlier, those people who are buying into this and don't attend games as much are doing so knowing it will benefit those who are going and helping make the club better mostly for them.

I personally think loyalty points should be awarded for every penny you give to the club, tickets, hospitality, merchandise, the whole lot.

Loyalty is more than just attending games, and thankfully the club acknowledge this. :top marks

Fishwicke
19-01-2016, 09:13 AM
6 pages of nonsense because someone overheard a guy in the queue for a pie at the Falkirk game saying loyalty points were going to be added early. As things stand the points will be added on the 1st of February, until that changes this discussion is pointless.
You are right. No point.

Ozyhibby
19-01-2016, 09:13 AM
There is much more to Hibs than attending games, and some folk show their loyalty in other ways. And in my opinion that should also be rewarded with loyalty points.

As i said earlier, those people who are buying into this and don't attend games as much are doing so knowing it will benefit those who are going and helping make the club better mostly for them.

I personally think loyalty points should be awarded for every penny you give to the club, tickets, hospitality, merchandise, the whole lot.

Loyalty is more than just attending games, and thankfully the club acknowledge this. :top marks

:agree::top marks

HibbyScott
19-01-2016, 09:27 AM
There is much more to Hibs than attending games, and some folk show their loyalty in other ways. And in my opinion that should also be rewarded with loyalty points.

As i said earlier, those people who are buying into this and don't attend games as much are doing so knowing it will benefit those who are going and helping make the club better mostly for them.

I personally think loyalty points should be awarded for every penny you give to the club, tickets, hospitality, merchandise, the whole lot.

Loyalty is more than just attending games, and thankfully the club acknowledge this. :top marks

:top marks Agree completely with this.

NAE NOOKIE
19-01-2016, 10:01 AM
There is much more to Hibs than attending games, and some folk show their loyalty in other ways. And in my opinion that should also be rewarded with loyalty points.

As i said earlier, those people who are buying into this and don't attend games as much are doing so knowing it will benefit those who are going and helping make the club better mostly for them.

I personally think loyalty points should be awarded for every penny you give to the club, tickets, hospitality, merchandise, the whole lot.

Loyalty is more than just attending games, and thankfully the club acknowledge this. :top marks

I agree Blackpool. Just so long as its done fairly, and that's all I'm asking for.

Ged
19-01-2016, 10:06 AM
I will stick my neck out and say it was purely conjecture........

Of course it is. Only a complete idiot would pick it up and run with it.

Ged
19-01-2016, 10:09 AM
There is much more to Hibs than attending games, and some folk show their loyalty in other ways. And in my opinion that should also be rewarded with loyalty points.

As i said earlier, those people who are buying into this and don't attend games as much are doing so knowing it will benefit those who are going and helping make the club better mostly for them.

I personally think loyalty points should be awarded for every penny you give to the club, tickets, hospitality, merchandise, the whole lot.

Loyalty is more than just attending games, and thankfully the club acknowledge this. :top marks

It'll certainly help when shop purchases are included. At the moment I would get no points for spending 50 in the club shop but pick up 5 points for spending the same amount on transport and a match ticket to an away game.

Loyalty points shouldn't just be for attending matches.

NAE NOOKIE
19-01-2016, 10:15 AM
6 pages of nonsense because someone overheard a guy in the queue for a pie at the Falkirk game saying loyalty points were going to be added early. As things stand the points will be added on the 1st of February, until that changes this discussion is pointless.

Not sure how you can say "6 pages of nonsense" when you don't appear to have read all of the thread.

I for one couldn't care less what was said in the pie queue at Falkirk. I couldn't care less if the HSL loyalty points were awarded last week, this week or 10 weeks from now, that's not the issue ....... the fact is they shouldn't be getting awarded at all unless the same points are awarded to everybody who bought shares.

Arch Stanton
19-01-2016, 10:21 AM
I agree Blackpool. Just so long as its done fairly, and that's all I'm asking for.

:agree:
Mind you, whatever 'fairer' system anyone comes up with there are bound to be disgruntled fans picking holes in it for one reason or another.

That said, I'm sure the club will be anxious to iron out as many bumps as they can. For a long time the TO was the only way to get tickets - this on-line ticketing is relatively new but in a few years I'm sure no one will give it a second thought.

Pretty Boy
19-01-2016, 10:26 AM
Not sure how you can say "6 pages of nonsense" when you don't appear to have read all of the thread.

I for one couldn't care less what was said in the pie queue at Falkirk. I couldn't care less if the HSL loyalty points were awarded last week, this week or 10 weeks from now, that's not the issue ....... the fact is they shouldn't be getting awarded at all unless the same points are awarded to everybody who bought shares.

I'm attending an HSL meeting tomorrow night. Would it be worth me asking they they suggest to Hibs that loyalty points should be retrospectively awarded to those that bough shares outright as a 'goodwill gesture'?

That would put an end to at least part of the matter and we could hopefully move on. Obviously it still doesn't resolve the 'loyalty points should only be for attendance argument' but I don't think that was ever going to be the case given Hibs original statement when the scheme was launched regardless of what was said at a meeting of a small working group some time before.

marinello59
19-01-2016, 10:36 AM
I'm attending an HSL meeting tomorrow night. Would it be worth me asking they they suggest to Hibs that loyalty points should be retrospectively awarded to those that bough shares outright as a 'goodwill gesture'?

That would put an end to at least part of the matter and we could hopefully move on. Obviously it still doesn't resolve the 'loyalty points should only be for attendance argument' but I don't think that was ever going to be the case given Hibs original statement when the scheme was launched regardless of what was said at a meeting of a small working group some time before.

There will be quite a few people who bought shares outright and have also signed up for HSL. Would they end up with 200 extra loyalty points? It's probably best to just let things lie as they are rather than create further problems. That's only my, what I reckon will be unpopular, opinion though. :greengrin

marinello59
19-01-2016, 10:46 AM
Not sure how you can say "6 pages of nonsense" when you don't appear to have read all of the thread.

I for one couldn't care less what was said in the pie queue at Falkirk. I couldn't care less if the HSL loyalty points were awarded last week, this week or 10 weeks from now, that's not the issue ....... the fact is they shouldn't be getting awarded at all unless the same points are awarded to everybody who bought shares.

Were you happy with your share purchase at the time? Are you still happy with your purchase? If so why would you want an extra 'reward' now?
Book a holiday today and you will probably pay full whack for it but you would be happy. Those who wait until later may pick it up at a bargain rate. Would you then demand that the travel agent give you the same rate as a point of principle?
Life is full of anomalies. It looks like the club did the wrong thing here but for the right reasons. I'm sure lessons will have been learned.

lord bunberry
19-01-2016, 11:16 AM
Not sure how you can say "6 pages of nonsense" when you don't appear to have read all of the thread.

I for one couldn't care less what was said in the pie queue at Falkirk. I couldn't care less if the HSL loyalty points were awarded last week, this week or 10 weeks from now, that's not the issue ....... the fact is they shouldn't be getting awarded at all unless the same points are awarded to everybody who bought shares.
I have read the whole thread and it's going over everything that's been said in previous threads on this subject, all because of a conversation overhead at half time on Sunday.

NAE NOOKIE
19-01-2016, 12:06 PM
I'm attending an HSL meeting tomorrow night. Would it be worth me asking they they suggest to Hibs that loyalty points should be retrospectively awarded to those that bough shares outright as a 'goodwill gesture'?

That would put an end to at least part of the matter and we could hopefully move on. Obviously it still doesn't resolve the 'loyalty points should only be for attendance argument' but I don't think that was ever going to be the case given Hibs original statement when the scheme was launched regardless of what was said at a meeting of a small working group some time before.

Thanks PB that would be much appreciated.

Without wanting to add fuel to the fire here, your offer kind of points to a situation beginning to emerge that needs to be nipped in the bud before it leads to difficulties further down the road.

As I understand it, Hibs agreed to award the loyalty points to people joining HSL in response to a request from them ( HSL ) it was not an unreasonable request and in fact a good idea to encourage people to sign up. It was up to the Hibs board, not HSL, to recognise that this could cause an issue with other shareholders, who not unreasonably would be feeling a bit miffed ( to say the least ) that HSL members were being rewarded by the club for doing exactly what they have also done ....... to the extent that HSL members are being given a better chance of seeing the clubs most important matches than the other shareholders.

The whole reason for having a loyalty points scheme is to reward supporters for their input to the club. How the club choose to allocate these points is entirely up to them ..... but however they choose to do it, it must be fair, and be seen to be fair.

This situation is like the club deciding to award loyalty points to people buying stuff in the club shop, but awarding 10 points to folk buying the teams home top and none to those buying the away top .... even though they both cost exactly the same, with the only difference being the colour.

What has to be avoided at all costs is a situation arising where it appears that members of HSL are being given preferential treatment by the club over its other shareholders ..... that is what has happened in this case and its up to the club to put things right. If situations like this continue to arise and are allowed to continue I can see a time where fans of the club, whether they are shareholders or not, are going to be divided along the lines of HSL and non HSL ..... with the non HSL fans rightly or wrongly seeing HSL fans as being the favoured son of the club.

If the situation here is that Hibs will only agree to do the right thing if HSL ask them to, then we are taking the first step in a direction I for one don't want to see the club go in ....... Hibs should be doing the right thing because its the obvious and fair thing to do, it shouldn't have to be at the behest of HSL and as far as I'm concerned it would not be coming under the heading of 'goodwill gesture' it would be under the heading of sorting a mistake.

Sorry PB ..... this rant is not aimed at you or anybody in HSL, I'm hoping that somebody on the Hibs board will read it ...... I have E Mailed the club, but so far had no response.

Danderhall Hibs
19-01-2016, 12:07 PM
Were you happy with your share purchase at the time? Are you still happy with your purchase? If so why would you want an extra 'reward' now?
Book a holiday today and you will probably pay full whack for it but you would be happy. Those who wait until later may pick it up at a bargain rate. Would you then demand that the travel agent give you the same rate as a point of principle?
Life is full of anomalies. It looks like the club did the wrong thing here but for the right reasons. I'm sure lessons will have been learned.


That's similar to the argument I've used on ticket prices/offers in the past.

I've been told you can't compare football with things like holidays and that.

Carheenlea
19-01-2016, 12:37 PM
The simplest solution is to just keep loyalty points for match attendance and match attendance alone.

Points being distributed for reasons other than that was always asking for problems and complaint. I signed up to HSL as it was the most affordable way for me to contribute, and I was not looking for anything in return from the club for doing so. Most people would be the same I imagine.

berwickhibee
19-01-2016, 12:39 PM
The simplest solution is to just keep loyalty points for match attendance and match attendance alone.

Points being distributed for reasons other than that was always asking for problems and complaint. I signed up to HSL as it was the most affordable way for me to contribute, and I was not looking for anything in return from the club for doing so. Most people would be the same I imagine.

In one sir:agree: exactly why I joined Hsl

marinello59
19-01-2016, 12:44 PM
That's similar to the argument I've used on ticket prices/offers in the past.

I've been told you can't compare football with things like holidays and that.

I don't think you can compare all aspects of fitba with other purchases. But I reckon in this case my illustration is fair enough to use. (Having my cake and eating it smiley.)

NAE NOOKIE
19-01-2016, 12:46 PM
Were you happy with your share purchase at the time? Are you still happy with your purchase? If so why would you want an extra 'reward' now?
Book a holiday today and you will probably pay full whack for it but you would be happy. Those who wait until later may pick it up at a bargain rate. Would you then demand that the travel agent give you the same rate as a point of principle?
Life is full of anomalies. It looks like the club did the wrong thing here but for the right reasons. I'm sure lessons will have been learned.

I am not looking for an "extra reward" I am asking for fair and equal treatment.

This situation is entirely different from making a purchase on the high street, the deal between any fan and their football club ( especially clubs like Hibs ) is entirely based on loyalty ... do you think for 10 seconds that I or anybody else in their right mind would part with 2.50 for a mince pie worth a pound or 42 for a shirt they know is worth at best a tenner if they were on sale in the high street. Never mind pay 200 for 100 worth of shares which have as much chance of returning a dividend as Liam Fontaine has of signing for Barcelona?

Do you think that I would have travelled an 80 mile round trip every other weekend for years, sometimes in conditions nothing short of dangerous, to watch the same film at the pictures that had a 99% chance of being just as crap as it was the last time I saw it?

That gives me, or any other Hibs fan, the absolute right to treat this as a question of principle and the right to expect the club to treat my view with the respect it deserves.

If Hibs dared to contact me with the same analogy as you have given here that would be a test my loyalty would not be able to pass.

Danderhall Hibs
19-01-2016, 12:48 PM
I don't think you can compare all aspects of fitba with other purchases. But I reckon in this case my illustration is fair enough to use. (Having my cake and eating it smiley.)

:tee hee: This place wouldn't be the same if you weren't allowed to contradict yourself regularly. :greengrin

Ozyhibby
19-01-2016, 12:54 PM
Don't let any of this loyalty points stuff put anyone off signing up with HSL.
http://www.hiberniansupporters.co.uk/phone/donate.html


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

marinello59
19-01-2016, 12:56 PM
:tee hee: This place wouldn't be the same if you weren't allowed to contradict yourself regularly. :greengrin

True. :greengrin

NAE NOOKIE
19-01-2016, 12:56 PM
The simplest solution is to just keep loyalty points for match attendance and match attendance alone.

Points being distributed for reasons other than that was always asking for problems and complaint. I signed up to HSL as it was the most affordable way for me to contribute, and I was not looking for anything in return from the club for doing so. Most people would be the same I imagine.

Exactly this http://www.hibs.net/images/smilies/top%20marks.gif

I bought shares to put the money into the club and to have a wee bit of paper to stick in a frame. I expected nothing more and I would have done it even if the ultimate aim hadn't been fan ownership.

Arch Stanton
19-01-2016, 01:11 PM
The simplest solution is to just keep loyalty points for match attendance and match attendance alone.

Points being distributed for reasons other than that was always asking for problems and complaint. I signed up to HSL as it was the most affordable way for me to contribute, and I was not looking for anything in return from the club for doing so. Most people would be the same I imagine.

But what if you imagine wrong? I think there is every chance that the points offer would have boosted HSL sales and if it did then it was absolutely the right thing to do. (And if it didn't then the club is hardly likely to repeat it!)

Why on earth should the club pass up on extra income? Income which could possibly make the difference between signing Stokes and going for a cheaper option?

Stuff that for a lark - its not being unfair it's about people putting their own sense of injustice ahead of the good of the club.

NAE NOOKIE
19-01-2016, 03:29 PM
But what if you imagine wrong? I think there is every chance that the points offer would have boosted HSL sales and if it did then it was absolutely the right thing to do. (And if it didn't then the club is hardly likely to repeat it!)

Why on earth should the club pass up on extra income? Income which could possibly make the difference between signing Stokes and going for a cheaper option?

Stuff that for a lark - its not being unfair it's about people putting their own sense of injustice ahead of the good of the club.

How can anybody have read the last 6 pages and still not get the point of this? ...... :brickwall

Its not about the fact that people are being given loyalty points to sign up to HSL .... Its a good idea with which I have no problem, the more people who sign up the better and if the prospect of loyalty points makes more people do it that's brilliant !!!

But it is utterly unfair that folk signing up to HSL are being given priority for match tickets over those of us who stumped up for shares at the very beginning of this process ( before HSL even had a single member I would add ) and whose money is of no less value to the club than that being input by an HSL member.

I am not putting my sense of injustice before the good of the club .... I am asking the club to treat all of its supporters the same and awarding points to one supporter over another, giving that supporter priority for tickets, when they have both had the same input into the club is so clearly wrong I find it quite astonishing that anybody who would claim to have a sense of fair play could feel able to defend it.... good of the club or not.

Let me make one thing clear, I do not consider myself to be an 'uber fan' and certainly do not consider myself to be any better than any of my fellow Hibs supporters. But don't lecture me on the good of the club mate .......... I have sacrificed a hell of a lot over the years following Hibs, spending more money than I could afford at times and putting up with the mostly unspoken ( sometimes not ) ire of my various football hating wives and partners .. "you and that fking football club !!!" springs to mind.

I didn't go through all that to have Hibs treat me like a second class supporter ........... Good of the club !!!

Ged
19-01-2016, 03:31 PM
But what if you imagine wrong? I think there is every chance that the points offer would have boosted HSL sales and if it did then it was absolutely the right thing to do. (And if it didn't then the club is hardly likely to repeat it!)

Why on earth should the club pass up on extra income? Income which could possibly make the difference between signing Stokes and going for a cheaper option?

Stuff that for a lark - its not being unfair it's about people putting their own sense of injustice ahead of the good of the club.

I'm not convinced it's that big an issue. It might be a 7 page thread but it's the same few people going over old ground again and again.

Ozyhibby
19-01-2016, 03:38 PM
I'm not convinced it's that big an issue. It might be a 7 page thread but it's the same few people going over old ground again and again.

Yip.


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NAE NOOKIE
19-01-2016, 03:54 PM
I'm not convinced it's that big an issue. It might be a 7 page thread but it's the same few people going over old ground again and again.

If its not a big issue it bloody well should be .... if I'm going over old ground again and again its being driven by my disappointment that so many of my fellow supporters seem happy to ignore the club treating one set of its fans as more important than another, even though their input into the club is exactly the same. It doesn't matter a toss how its dressed up, that's what they are doing.

My mum didn't bring me up to let folk piss on my leg and tell me its raining ...... perhaps that attitude isn't as prevalent as I thought amongst my peers.

ronaldo7
19-01-2016, 04:00 PM
How can anybody have read the last 6 pages and still not get the point of this? ...... :brickwall

Its not about the fact that people are being given loyalty points to sign up to HSL .... Its a good idea with which I have no problem, the more people who sign up the better and if the prospect of loyalty points makes more people do it that's brilliant !!!

But it is utterly unfair that folk signing up to HSL are being given priority for match tickets over those of us who stumped up for shares at the very beginning of this process ( before HSL even had a single member I would add ) and whose money is of no less value to the club than that being input by an HSL member.

I am not putting my sense of injustice before the good of the club .... I am asking the club to treat all of its supporters the same and awarding points to one supporter over another, giving that supporter priority for tickets, when they have both had the same input into the club is so clearly wrong I find it quite astonishing that anybody who would claim to have a sense of fair play could feel able to defend it.... good of the club or not.

Let me make one thing clear, I do not consider myself to be an 'uber fan' and certainly do not consider myself to be any better than any of my fellow Hibs supporters. But don't lecture me on the good of the club mate .......... I have sacrificed a hell of a lot over the years following Hibs, spending more money than I could afford at times and putting up with the mostly unspoken ( sometimes not ) ire of my various football hating wives and partners .. "you and that fking football club !!!" springs to mind.

I didn't go through all that to have Hibs treat me like a second class supporter ........... Good of the club !!!


You've made your case very clearly NN. :aok: The club have agreed that they made an erchie of it, and it could quite easily be rectified.

I hope you get a good response from the club.

NAE NOOKIE
19-01-2016, 04:12 PM
You've made your case very clearly NN. :aok: The club have agreed that they made an erchie of it, and it could quite easily be rectified.

I hope you get a good response from the club.

Thanks very much for that Ronaldo ....... to be honest I was beginning to feel like a voice crying in the wilderness :greengrin

Arch Stanton
19-01-2016, 04:58 PM
How can anybody have read the last 6 pages and still not get the point of this? ...... :brickwall


I think it's you that doesn't get the point. There are two possibilities here -
1) The issue of points helped with the share issues and increased revenue for the club
2) It didn't

We can ignore the second case because the club will not try it again.

Now the problem we now have is how to achieve this revenue increase which is fair in your eyes. The thing is, you have blethered on for post after post about making it fair for everyone but you haven't said how.

Any incentive to new entrants is by definition unfair to those who already own shares or are HSL members. So, the only way to keep you happy is not to have incentive schemes and forgo the extra money they would raise. Idiotic!

cabbageandribs1875
19-01-2016, 05:09 PM
anyone know when the HSL T-shirts will be on sale :thumbsup:

SunshineOnLeith
19-01-2016, 05:11 PM
anyone know when the HSL T-shirts will be on sale :thumbsup:

How many loyalty points do you get for buying a tshirt? 100 sounds about right.

blackpoolhibs
19-01-2016, 05:12 PM
How many loyalty points do you get for buying a tshirt? 100 sounds about right.

Put me down for 6 please.:thumbsup:

cabbageandribs1875
19-01-2016, 05:15 PM
How many loyalty points do you get for buying a tshirt? 100 sounds about right.


i'm thinking maybe 2 points for every pound :dunno: even better than what tesco clubcard holders get :greengrin


Put me down for 6 please.:thumbsup:


greed, just sheer greed, nae need likes


:)

wookie70
19-01-2016, 05:26 PM
I paid at the gate at 3 away games and can't get loyalty points. I paid the same as those that bought from the ticket office and saved Hibs some admin costs. Not too dissimilar to what shareholder's situation is.

I was considering contributing to HSL but I won't pull the trigger until they award 100 loyalty points again. In my opinion it was a poor decision to give so many points for a potentiality small contribution and it is made worse by the fact that shareholders who have paid in full get no points.

It is early days though and hopefully lessons are being learnt. HSL loyalty points haven't cost me the opportunity to buy a ticket yet but I suspect they will in the future.

blackpoolhibs
19-01-2016, 05:28 PM
I paid at the gate at 3 away games and can't get loyalty points. I paid the same as those that bought from the ticket office and saved Hibs some admin costs. Not too dissimilar to what shareholder's situation is.

I was considering contributing to HSL but I won't pull the trigger until they award 100 loyalty points again. In my opinion it was a poor decision to give so many points for a potentiality small contribution and it is made worse by the fact that shareholders who have paid in full get no points.

It is early days though and hopefully lessons are being learnt. HSL loyalty points haven't cost me the opportunity to buy a ticket yet but I suspect they will in the future.

I will get more too if they give us another 100 points. :thumbsup:

Ringothedog
19-01-2016, 05:34 PM
I don't think you can compare all aspects of fitba with other purchases. But I reckon in this case my illustration is fair enough to use. (Having my cake and eating it smiley.)

I want my cake and to eat it,which means I should get loyalty points for both my HSL payments I am making and for my share purchase. I also want 50 loyalty points for every year I have followed Hibs. ( :

DaveF
19-01-2016, 05:37 PM
I paid at the gate at 3 away games and can't get loyalty points. I paid the same as those that bought from the ticket office and saved Hibs some admin costs. Not too dissimilar to what shareholder's situation is.

I was considering contributing to HSL but I won't pull the trigger until they award 100 loyalty points again. In my opinion it was a poor decision to give so many points for a potentiality small contribution and it is made worse by the fact that shareholders who have paid in full get no points.

It is early days though and hopefully lessons are being learnt. HSL loyalty points haven't cost me the opportunity to buy a ticket yet but I suspect they will in the future.

So it appears you were going to join hsl but decided against it because of 100 loyalty points?

Arch Stanton
19-01-2016, 05:39 PM
I paid at the gate at 3 away games and can't get loyalty points. I paid the same as those that bought from the ticket office and saved Hibs some admin costs. Not too dissimilar to what shareholder's situation is.

I was considering contributing to HSL but I won't pull the trigger until they award 100 loyalty points again. In my opinion it was a poor decision to give so many points for a potentiality small contribution and it is made worse by the fact that shareholders who have paid in full get no points.

It is early days though and hopefully lessons are being learnt. HSL loyalty points haven't cost me the opportunity to buy a ticket yet but I suspect they will in the future.

You do realise that you'll have to make the small contribution every month? :greengrin

Anyway, the share holders I really have sympathy for are those who owned shares prior to the share issue since they saw their share value and their voting power halved. Hardly fair to them was it, but of massive value to the club.

A great vote of thanks is due to them and all the more so because they are not making a big song and dance about it! If they had demanded fairness there would have been no HSL and no McGinn or Stokes.

Leithenhibby
19-01-2016, 06:24 PM
You do realise that you'll have to make the small contribution every month? :greengrin

Anyway, the share holders I really have sympathy for are those who owned shares prior to the share issue since they saw their share value and their voting power halved. Hardly fair to them was it, but of massive value to the club.

A great vote of thanks is due to them and all the more so because they are not making a big song and dance about it! If they had demanded fairness there would have been no HSL and no McGinn or Stokes.

:agree:

We can add Fraser Fyvie, to the list also :wink:

http://www.hiberniansupporters.co.uk/donate.html

CropleyWasGod
19-01-2016, 06:55 PM
You do realise that you'll have to make the small contribution every month? :greengrin

Anyway, the share holders I really have sympathy for are those who owned shares prior to the share issue since they saw their share value and their voting power halved. Hardly fair to them was it, but of massive value to the club.

A great vote of thanks is due to them and all the more so because they are not making a big song and dance about it! If they had demanded fairness there would have been no HSL and no McGinn or Stokes.
I'm one of them. To be honest, I don't see what there would be to have a song and dance about. I can't see that anyone would be bothered about voting rights or dilution of value.

I remember being miffed years ago when shareholders priority for big games was taken away....but that feeling lasted about 5 minutes. It's no big deal.

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NAE NOOKIE
20-01-2016, 12:46 PM
I think it's you that doesn't get the point. There are two possibilities here -
1) The issue of points helped with the share issues and increased revenue for the club
2) It didn't

We can ignore the second case because the club will not try it again.

Now the problem we now have is how to achieve this revenue increase which is fair in your eyes. The thing is, you have blethered on for post after post about making it fair for everyone but you haven't said how.

Any incentive to new entrants is by definition unfair to those who already own shares or are HSL members. So, the only way to keep you happy is not to have incentive schemes and forgo the extra money they would raise. Idiotic!

" but you haven't said how " ......... Apart from in every bloody post I have made on the subject you mean.

I DONT have a problem with Hibs offering 100 loyalty points to folk joining HSL. But in a football club loyalty points scheme you CANNOT offer loyalty points to just a percentage of supporters who are all having exactly the same input to the club .... If you do that the whole scheme is a farce and becomes entirely discredited ....... Football clubs are not in a position to run schemes like this that are unfair to a percentage of their fans ... by DEFINITION or otherwise ... you would have to be stupid not to see that.

In what way does giving 100 loyalty points to everybody who has bought shares, no matter which avenue they have taken to do so, prevent Hibs from offering those same 100 points as an incentive to get new people to join HSL? ...... Knowing a hundred points is up for grabs is still an incentive to join is it not? ...... I think you need to think a bit more before you start calling folk idiotic my friend.

If I have "blethered on for post after post" its because I don't know how to draw pictures on the internet for those who are unable to properly take in what I have written.

hibee_nation
20-01-2016, 01:18 PM
I have both shares and joined HSL. For our shares we get to attend the AGM every year and get to put questions to the board directly from the floor, have a nice wee share certificate and a glossy brochure once a year telling us how well we are doing, none of which is available to HSL members. If 100 loyalty points was the the boost HSL needed to get folk to sign up then that is fair enough for me. You can't please everyone but if you win your arguement with the club then i'm wanting 200 loyalty points as a sort of uber shareholder. :greengrin

Ozyhibby
20-01-2016, 01:55 PM
I have both shares and joined HSL. For our shares we get to attend the AGM every year and get to put questions to the board directly from the floor, have a nice wee share certificate and a glossy brochure once a year telling us how well we are doing, none of which is available to HSL members. If 100 loyalty points was the the boost HSL needed to get folk to sign up then that is fair enough for me. You can't please everyone but if you win your arguement with the club then i'm wanting 200 loyalty points as a sort of uber shareholder. :greengrin

That's the point I was trying to make. The two classes of investors are not the same. There many things that shareholders get that HSL members don't.
I don't care much about loyalty points as such as I always manage to get tickets, so I'm struggling to see what the big deal is but I also have no objection to shareholders getting the same deal.
It looks like people have different ideas about what the scheme should be about. Personally I think it should be for all purchases from the club but others think just for match day attendance. I'm not that fussed either way.



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marinello59
20-01-2016, 02:07 PM
If I have "blethered on for post after post" its because I don't know how to draw pictures on the internet for those who are unable to properly take in what I have written.

People can understand what you are saying without sharing the same opinion on this. That doesn't make them stupid does it? Its a forum, some people will disagree with you. (It's usually most people in my case. :greengrin)

NAE NOOKIE
20-01-2016, 02:31 PM
People can understand what you are saying without sharing the same opinion on this. That doesn't make them stupid does it? Its a forum, some people will disagree with you. (It's usually most people in my case. :greengrin)

I wasn't annoyed with him for not sharing my opinion mate, that's his right. If you look at what I said in my posts and then look at his post I quoted there you can see why I said what I did.

EG ..... He said I was saying that Hibs shouldn't run an incentive scheme, when I had done nothing of the kind. He said I hadn't shown how the points system could be made fair, when I had said about 5 times in other posts he is supposed to have read what has to happen to do exactly that.

Anyway .......He called my opinion "idiotic" ....... live by the sword as they say :greengrin

Arch Stanton
20-01-2016, 02:40 PM
And here was me thinking the big focus for Hibs would be getting into the SPL - apparently not for some.

Arch Stanton
20-01-2016, 02:56 PM
" but you haven't said how " ......... Apart from in every bloody post I have made on the subject you mean.

I DONT have a problem with Hibs offering 100 loyalty points to folk joining HSL. But in a football club loyalty points scheme you CANNOT offer loyalty points to just a percentage of supporters who are all having exactly the same input to the club .... If you do that the whole scheme is a farce and becomes entirely discredited ....... Football clubs are not in a position to run schemes like this that are unfair to a percentage of their fans ... by DEFINITION or otherwise ... you would have to be stupid not to see that.

In what way does giving 100 loyalty points to everybody who has bought shares, no matter which avenue they have taken to do so, prevent Hibs from offering those same 100 points as an incentive to get new people to join HSL? ...... Knowing a hundred points is up for grabs is still an incentive to join is it not? ...... I think you need to think a bit more before you start calling folk idiotic my friend.

If I have "blethered on for post after post" its because I don't know how to draw pictures on the internet for those who are unable to properly take in what I have written.

I realise that is probably our biggest point of difference.

You maybe reckon it is a simple matter of telling the computer department to give 100 points to direct shareholders as well please.

Having been a computer department person for many years I think the response would likely be to ask for 3 months lead-time and a 24k budget to produce a feasibility study. Believe me it wouldn't have been in the least bit easy and if it was I am certain they would have done it - they are not in the business of intentionally pissing people off.

marinello59
20-01-2016, 03:05 PM
I wasn't annoyed with him for not sharing my opinion mate, that's his right. If you look at what I said in my posts and then look at his post I quoted there you can see why I said what I did.

EG ..... He said I was saying that Hibs shouldn't run an incentive scheme, when I had done nothing of the kind. He said I hadn't shown how the points system could be made fair, when I had said about 5 times in other posts he is supposed to have read what has to happen to do exactly that.

Anyway .......He called my opinion "idiotic" ....... live by the sword as they say :greengrin

So what would you do to make the system fair?..:duck:

NAE NOOKIE
20-01-2016, 03:06 PM
And here was me thinking the big focus for Hibs would be getting into the SPL - apparently not for some.

Oh it is mate.

The problem is that some of us would like the same chance to be there when it happens as our fellow supporters. If the opportunity to do that comes down to the clubs loyalty points system and I lose out to folk with more points that's fine. What I cant and wont accept is seeing those points allocated unfairly.

I buy a season ticket 180 points ........ You buy a season ticket 180 points

I buy an away ticket 3 points ...... You buy an away ticket 3 points

I buy shares myself 0 points ...... You buy the same shares through HSL 100 points

I don't fking think so.

Ozyhibby
20-01-2016, 03:10 PM
Oh it is mate.

The problem is that some of us would like the same chance to be there when it happens as our fellow supporters. If the opportunity to do that comes down to the clubs loyalty points system and I lose out to folk with more points that's fine. What I cant and wont accept is seeing those points allocated unfairly.

I buy a season ticket 180 points ........ You buy a season ticket 180 points

I buy an away ticket 3 points ...... You buy an away ticket 3 points

I buy shares 0 points but get to attend the AGM, question the board directly, get the accounts posted to your house and have the right to a dividend ...... You buy shares 100 points

Fixed that for you


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TamHibs
20-01-2016, 03:11 PM
Oh it is mate.

The problem is that some of us would like the same chance to be there when it happens as our fellow supporters. If the opportunity to do that comes down to the clubs loyalty points system and I lose out to folk with more points that's fine. What I cant and wont accept is seeing those points allocated unfairly.

I buy a season ticket 180 points ........ You buy a season ticket 180 points

I buy an away ticket 3 points ...... You buy an away ticket 3 points

I buy shares myself 0 points ...... You buy the same shares through HSL 100 points

I don't fking think so.

It's 5 points for an away game

NAE NOOKIE
20-01-2016, 03:14 PM
So what would you do to make the system fair?..:duck:

See post 224

Arch Stanton
20-01-2016, 03:20 PM
Oh it is mate.

The problem is that some of us would like the same chance to be there when it happens as our fellow supporters. If the opportunity to do that comes down to the clubs loyalty points system and I lose out to folk with more points that's fine. What I cant and wont accept is seeing those points allocated unfairly.

I buy a season ticket 180 points ........ You buy a season ticket 180 points

I buy an away ticket 3 points ...... You buy an away ticket 3 points

I buy shares myself 0 points ...... You buy the same shares through HSL 100 points

I don't fking think so.

Remedy -

You buy shares yourself 0 points ...... I buy the same shares through HSL 0 points

There you go, your problem fixed the only way it can be. And if sub-1500 HSL members is adequate for you then there isn't a problem. If fewer HSL members meaning less money to the club is fine by you then again there isn't a problem.

You might think you're on some kind of principled high-ground here but it is looking awful muddy to me. And I really can't fathom why anyone would argue less money to the club on such a petty principle.

NAE NOOKIE
20-01-2016, 03:23 PM
Fixed that for you


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The members of HSL will be able to do exactly the same as a collective, with the questions and how they will vote decided by the members beforehand, their opinion and vote will carry just as much or more weight than mine will as an individual .... so that puts that to bed.

This is about the ability to attend matches .... If the members of HSL all want to rock up to the AGM they have my blessing :aok:

marinello59
20-01-2016, 03:26 PM
See post 224

I wasn't being serious.

CropleyWasGod
20-01-2016, 03:27 PM
The members of HSL will be able to do exactly the same as a collective, with the questions and how they will vote decided by the members beforehand, their opinion and vote will carry just as much or more weight than mine will as an individual .... so that puts that to bed.

This is about the ability to attend matches .... If the members of HSL all want to rock up to the AGM they have my blessing :aok:

There is one group in all of this who have maintained a (dignified? or just CBA?) silence. That is those who were shareholders long before anyone else. If, as you say, it's about " the ability to attend matches", are they not being penalised as well?

Baldy Foghorn
20-01-2016, 03:47 PM
Oh it is mate.

The problem is that some of us would like the same chance to be there when it happens as our fellow supporters. If the opportunity to do that comes down to the clubs loyalty points system and I lose out to folk with more points that's fine. What I cant and wont accept is seeing those points allocated unfairly.

I buy a season ticket 180 points ........ You buy a season ticket 180 points

I buy an away ticket 3 points ...... You buy an away ticket 3 points

I buy shares myself 0 points ...... You buy the same shares through HSL 100 points

I don't fking think so.

Totally in your camp NN.....Some are now suggesting you get points for buying food at matches....Imagine missing out because someone has bought food....FFS this is silly, it's a mess......The system was simple, it's now been messed up, and a split between supporter's has ensued.....Magic......:rolleyes:

Ozyhibby
20-01-2016, 03:52 PM
Totally in your camp NN.....Some are now suggesting you get points for buying food at matches....Imagine missing out because someone has bought food....FFS this is silly, it's a mess......The system was simple, it's now been messed up, and a split between supporter's has ensued.....Magic......:rolleyes:

Think it might just be you two?


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Baldy Foghorn
20-01-2016, 03:53 PM
Think it might just be you two?


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Think not, speak to a lot of guys who don't post on here, and there is a split......

Arch Stanton
20-01-2016, 04:03 PM
Totally in your camp NN.....Some are now suggesting you get points for buying food at matches....Imagine missing out because someone has bought food....FFS this is silly, it's a mess......The system was simple, it's now been messed up, and a split between supporter's has ensued.....Magic......:rolleyes:

Ah well, one man's mess is another man's money earner. :agree:

And since Hibs is to come under fan ownership in the not too distant future then we will need to debate issues such as these and reach a consensus. There will be lots of times I'm sure when opinions will differ and in the end it will just come down to a majority vote. Hibs.net doesn't work that way and things can drag on - but it doesn't harm anyone at the end of the day.

NAE NOOKIE
20-01-2016, 04:07 PM
Remedy -

You buy shares yourself 0 points ...... I buy the same shares through HSL 0 points

There you go, your problem fixed the only way it can be. And if sub-1500 HSL members is adequate for you then there isn't a problem. If fewer HSL members meaning less money to the club is fine by you then again there isn't a problem.

You might think you're on some kind of principled high-ground here but it is looking awful muddy to me. And I really can't fathom why anyone would argue less money to the club on such a petty principle.

Absolutely fine ......... That's been my argument all along, I see you finally get it.

As for the rest of it:

If Hibs decide to award 100 points to everybody who buys shares that's perfectly fine as well, just so long as its 'everybody' .... that then remains an incentive to join HSL, or buy as an individual for that matter, if Hibs re open that way of doing it. In spite of your attempts to make it look like I have a problem with loyalty points for joining HSL I have never so much as hinted that I do ...... I just want to see it done fairly.

Hibs award 180 loyalty points to folk who buy season tickets. Would you be happy if Hibs gave 180 points to people who pay it up monthly and no points to those who walk into the ticket office and plank down three hundred odd quid in cash? ..... Would you be happy if Hibs gave no points to folk buying a season ticket in May and 180 points to folk buying in August and call that fair? ............ That is exactly the system you are trying to defend here.

Take my word for it ....... There is absolutely a principled high ground to be held here and its only muddy or petty if you are the sort of person who is happy to see people being treated unfairly.

NAE NOOKIE
20-01-2016, 04:16 PM
There is one group in all of this who have maintained a (dignified? or just CBA?) silence. That is those who were shareholders long before anyone else. If, as you say, it's about " the ability to attend matches", are they not being penalised as well?

Sod them :grr:

Nah ..... In all seriousness if the club wants to award points for shares I wouldn't have any problem if they also got the same points as those investing in this share issue.

happiehibbie
20-01-2016, 04:18 PM
can you transfer your loyalty points

Ozyhibby
20-01-2016, 04:22 PM
Shareholders also have the right to sell their shares, that is not an option for HSL members.


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TamHibs
20-01-2016, 04:24 PM
can you transfer your loyalty points

In what way? If you mean transfer them to someone else then I believe not.

Arch Stanton
20-01-2016, 04:28 PM
Shareholders also have the right to sell their shares, that is not an option for HSL members.


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You mean if NN had his way then they could collect Loyalty Points for buying shares and then just sell their shares?

Sickening if so!

:greengrin

SunshineOnLeith
20-01-2016, 04:29 PM
Think it might just be you two?


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I'm firmly in the 'Loyalty points for subscribing to HSL is a nonsense' camp.

HSL is about fan ownership and, regardless of how often you post about it, some people either don't believe in, or just aren't bothered about, fan ownership. That has absolutely nothing to do with 'loyalty' in terms of supporting the team.

Had the number of points been small people would let it fly, but people are getting more points for joining a membership scheme than they would for buying a half season ticket - that's absurd.

happiehibbie
20-01-2016, 04:32 PM
In what way? If you mean transfer them to someone else then I believe not.

yes as in give them to somebody who does not have enough to buy a ticket !

I have 350 ! and HSL contacted me to give me another 100 :)

Arch Stanton
20-01-2016, 04:36 PM
I'm firmly in the 'Loyalty points for subscribing to HSL is a nonsense' camp.

HSL is about fan ownership and, regardless of how often you post about it, some people either don't believe in, or just aren't bothered about, fan ownership. That has absolutely nothing to do with 'loyalty' in terms of supporting the team.

Had the number of points been small people would let it fly, but people are getting more points for joining a membership scheme than they would for buying a half season ticket - that's absurd.

And the transfer window acquisitions? You don't mention them.

And don't you get to see games with a ST?

Ozyhibby
20-01-2016, 04:38 PM
I'm firmly in the 'Loyalty points for subscribing to HSL is a nonsense' camp.

HSL is about fan ownership and, regardless of how often you post about it, some people either don't believe in, or just aren't bothered about, fan ownership. That has absolutely nothing to do with 'loyalty' in terms of supporting the team.

Had the number of points been small people would let it fly, but people are getting more points for joining a membership scheme than they would for buying a half season ticket - that's absurd.

A half season ticket is cheaper than my HSL membership and my HSL membership does not get me into a single match.


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wookie70
20-01-2016, 04:39 PM
So it appears you were going to join hsl but decided against it because of 100 loyalty points?

To be honest incentives like this tend to put me off buying things so that was a consideration previously. I am very much a give me 1% of my groceries rather than bloody club card points type of guy. What mostly put me off was the fact 20 away games were needed to get the same points. That seemed ridiculous to me in terms of loyalty(measured by me as attendance).

Now, I am in the position if I set up a direct debit up I will be treated worse than someone who set it up a wee while back even though I may end up paying for longer. Fairness is important to me and the decision to award 100 points has made it considerably less likely I joined HSL. I also have two of my kids to consider and another one who I take to games. It isn't a very family friendly incentive.

In short if the 100 points were never awarded I think I would now have pulled the trigger and contributed to HSL. Now the points are in play I doubt I will. Any marketing campaign aims to get more customers and I dare say this one has been successful. It doesn't matter if a few people disengage if we get lots engaging. There is however a bigger picture here and it is one that is similar to Sky etc offering huge incentives to new customers whilst the loyal ones who have paid their dues are pretty much ignored in terms of their current subscription. Its all part of the ugly world we live in where money is at the root of every decision.

wookie70
20-01-2016, 04:43 PM
I'm attending an HSL meeting tomorrow night. Would it be worth me asking they they suggest to Hibs that loyalty points should be retrospectively awarded to those that bough shares outright as a 'goodwill gesture'?

That would put an end to at least part of the matter and we could hopefully move on. Obviously it still doesn't resolve the 'loyalty points should only be for attendance argument' but I don't think that was ever going to be the case given Hibs original statement when the scheme was launched regardless of what was said at a meeting of a small working group some time before.

I would also suggest that all existing and future members of HSL receive the 100 points as that seems to me to be the best way of getting back to an even keel.

Blaster
20-01-2016, 04:55 PM
I joined today and not fussed if I get points in the future or not

Arch Stanton
20-01-2016, 04:56 PM
I would also suggest that all existing and future members of HSL receive the 100 points as that seems to me to be the best way of getting back to an even keel.

I'd say that if the points allocations made a big difference to club funding then continue it. But, if it didn't then best scrap it and write the whole thing off as a mistake.

Also, if they were to continue doing it then it should probably be reduced and the club should just fess up to being bad. :wink:

Ozyhibby
20-01-2016, 04:57 PM
I joined today and not fussed if I get points in the future or not

Well in. [emoji3]


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