Hsl

[Badge]

Think it might just be you two?


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Me too

[SunshineOnLeith]

And the transfer window acquisitions? You don't mention them.

And don't you get to see games with a ST?

I'm all for Hibs getting more money, and if sufficient fans believe in fan ownership then I can see that that's a great way for providing funds. It has nothing to do with loyalty, though.

Yes, you do. Rewarding the purchase of match tickets (be they season, half-season or individual) with points which give priority in purchasing match tickets is logical, fair, and rewards loyalty.

[SunshineOnLeith]

A half season ticket is cheaper than my HSL membership and my HSL membership does not get me into a single match.


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Your HSL membership also has nothing to do with loyalty.

[DaveF]

Think not, speak to a lot of guys who don't post on here, and there is a split......

Jeez, take my points when I get them. I dont need or want them. Club tries best to encourage sign ups by offering incentive - it backfires a bit and everyone more or less sees that - but some cant just accept its an error to learn from and now want hammer a scheme intended to help fund the club while aiming for ownership.

I know you support the club more than most but you are doing your level best to fan the flames of discontent here.

[wookie70]

A half season ticket is cheaper than my HSL membership and my HSL membership does not get me into a single match.


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And a season ticket doesn't get any say in the boardroom either directly or indirectly. To me there are two kinds of loyalty here, financial and attendance. For financial loyalty I suggest financial reward and for attendance loyalty I suggest attendance reward. It sounds simple because it is. If you buy into HSL then it is a financial contribution so I would offer money off at the club shop or a percentage of season ticket purchases. For attendance it would be preferential treatment for ticket purchases.

I would actually take it further and say that not only a purchase of a season ticket is required but that it needs to be used. There are lots of seats around me that are never used but I can't get a season ticket for. If you can't be arsed turning up for home games then no idea why you should have a right to expect to go to away games.

Supporting a team is about turning up to watch them in my opinion. I appreciate that many can't as I have been in that position myself when the kids were very young and the wife worked weekends. I didn't think I was a real supporter at that point in my life as I didn't go to the games. I still feel guilty every game I miss but don't have any guilt at not being a shareholder or HSL members. I appreciate it is different for everyone but those are my thoughts.

[marinello59]

I'm all for Hibs getting more money, and if sufficient fans believe in fan ownership then I can see that that's a great way for providing funds. It has nothing to do with loyalty, though.

Yes, you do. Rewarding the purchase of match tickets (be they season, half-season or individual) with points which give priority in purchasing match tickets is logical, fair, and rewards loyalty.

It depends how narrowly you wish to define it. Putting money in to HSL clearly does demonstrate a degree of loyalty to the club. Doesn't it?

[DaveF]

Your HSL membership also has nothing to do with loyalty.

Does a hibee living abroad contributing to hsl not count? How else can they show their 'loyalty'

[lord bunberry]

I've got a great idea, why don't we just do away with the loyalty points system. All it's done is caused arguments

[marinello59]

I've got a great idea, why don't we just do away with the loyalty points system. All it's done is caused arguments

I said the same thing a couple of weeks ago on here.

[matty_f]

Do we knowif anyone's likely to miss out on a ticket due to the HSL points yet?

[Baldy Foghorn]

I've got a great idea, why don't we just do away with the loyalty points system. All it's done is caused arguments

It's not the loyalty points scheme that is the issue.....Blame this decision on giving 100 points to some......

[Billy Whizz]

Does a hibee living abroad contributing to hsl not count? How else can they show their 'loyalty'

They should be rewarded by subscribing to Hibs TV and watching the matches

[Arch Stanton]

I've got a great idea, why don't we just do away with the loyalty points system. All it's done is caused arguments

Just call it Bonus Points and all the arguments go away - or one or two do anyway.

I think the Loyalty name is a bit too hunnish anyway.

[DaveF]

It's not the loyalty points scheme that is the issue.....Blame this decision on giving 100 points to some......

Yep we know that, so at what point do you accept it as a mistake and move on?

[Albanian Hibs]

I've got a great idea, why don't we just do away with the loyalty points system. All it's done is caused arguments

Agreed

[lord bunberry]

I said the same thing a couple of weeks ago on here.
I remember people in here calling for a loyalty points system. In the main it was people who attended some games, but couldn't get a season ticket. They wanted the chance to be able to get tickets for big games ahead of people who only went to finals etc. That seemed quite fair, but the way it's been set up is only really benefitting a very small number. Everyone I speak to about it says the same, it's a pain in the arse.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Yep we know that, so at what point do you accept it as a mistake and move on?

How can it be a mistake? It is a goer, nothing has been done to abate the issue, since October....

When people talk of scrapping the system, am I not allowed to respond? Or should I just move on?

[lord bunberry]

It's not the loyalty points scheme that is the issue.....Blame this decision on giving 100 points to some......
That's not the problem at all. I've got no problem with people like yourself being first in line for tickets when availability is limited, but for the rest of us it's caused more problems than its solved.

[marinello59]

I remember people in here calling for a loyalty points system. In the main it was people who attended some games, but couldn't get a season ticket. They wanted the chance to be able to get tickets for big games ahead of people who only went to finals etc. That seemed quite fair, but the way it's been set up is only really benefitting a very small number. Everyone I speak to about it says the same, it's a pain in the arse.

Exactly how I remember it, the original idea was to reward walk ups who got no recognition for their attendance when it came to big games. It looks like they have been totally forgotten about now which is a real pity. That would have seen a much larger number of people benefit from a loyalty scheme.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Exactly how I remember it, the original idea was to reward walk ups who got no recognition for their attendance when it came to big games. It looks like they have new totally forgotten about now which is a real pity. That would have seen a much larger number of people benefit from a loyalty scheme.

Walk ups are recognised now, not forgotten about......

[NAE NOOKIE]

Shareholders also have the right to sell their shares, that is not an option for HSL members.


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Lol ............. I also have the option to go and support hertz. With millions of shares still up for grabs and them being virtually worthless on the open market who would you sell them to? ...... anybody who thinks these shares are an investment needs psychiatric help, the ability to sell them or not is purely academic.

This isn't a question of whose shares are best mate. I would hope that as far as Hibs and the clubs support is concerned there would be no distinction between those who bought shares privately or those who bought a stake in HSL.

Unfortunately less than a year down the line the club have already taken a step in the direction of creating such a distinction. For the first time since Leeann Dempster became CEO she appears to have made, or at least been party to, a decision which appears to have been ill considered, at least in its application.

[SunshineOnLeith]

It depends how narrowly you wish to define it. Putting money in to HSL clearly does demonstrate a degree of loyalty to the club. Doesn't it?

A loyalty scheme of the sort Hibs (and other football teams, Tartan Army etc) have exists solely or primarily to allocate priority for the purchase of match tickets. Attendance at matches is therefore the only 'loyalty' that should count for this purpose, in my opinion. I can see no reason why contributing towards a membership scheme geared towards fan ownership should be rewarded with priority for purchasing match tickets.

My own view is that it was completely unnecessary for Hibs to introduce a loyalty scheme at all, given we have average crowds in the range of 9,000 in a 20,000 seater stadium, I honestly think we just copied Hearts in some weird effort at keeping up appearances. I'm not a season ticket holder, but I have a real problem with the idea that a season ticket holder could ever be considered anything other than one of the most loyal fans.

[wookie70]

Walk ups are recognised now, not forgotten about...... Not for away games. How do you get points for a walk up at the pods.

[Hermit Crab]

I've got a great idea, why don't we just do away with the loyalty points system. All it's done is caused arguments


Why? are you struggling for point to get a derby ticket? It's about rewarding the loyal fans that attend.

[Ozyhibby]

Lol ............. I also have the option to go and support hertz. With millions of shares still up for grabs and them being virtually worthless on the open market who would you sell them to? ...... anybody who thinks these shares are an investment needs psychiatric help, the ability to sell them or not is purely academic.

This isn't a question of whose shares are best mate. I would hope that as far as Hibs and the clubs support is concerned there would be no distinction between those who bought shares privately or those who bought a stake in HSL.

Unfortunately less than a year down the line the club have already taken a step in the direction of creating such a distinction. For the first time since Leeann Dempster became CEO she appears to have made, or at least been party to, a decision which appears to have been ill considered, at least in its application.

To you and a couple of others anyway.


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[Baldy Foghorn]

Not for away games. How do you get points for a walk up at the pods.

Buy from Hibs and get the points.......

[Billy Whizz]

Not for away games. How do you get points for a walk up at the pods.

Buy in advance or buy from the TO

[Hermit Crab]

Not for away games. How do you get points for a walk up at the pods.


You can, its the buyers own fault for not going to the ticket office though.

[DaveF]

How can it be a mistake? It is a goer, nothing has been done to abate the issue, since October....

When people talk of scrapping the system, am I not allowed to respond? Or should I just move on?

Its been widely acknowledged by many here as being a mistake hasn't it?

You have responded plenty of times. At what point do we move on or are you intent making this split wider?

[Arch Stanton]

Walk ups are recognised now, not forgotten about......

Only if they go to the TO with all the big queues - and those are probably caused by having to look peoples details up on the database.

I reckon people without season tickets should be given membership cards to speed all that up a bit.

[SunshineOnLeith]

Does a hibee living abroad contributing to hsl not count? How else can they show their 'loyalty'

When it comes to match attendance, they likely can't. Why should an overseas fan be given priority in purchasing match tickets over, say, someone who attends 7 or 8 games a season as a walk up fan?

Loyalty points aren't about wearing a wee badge that says how great a Hibs fan you are, they're about rewarding attendance at matches with priority for purchasing tickets for matches.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Its been widely acknowledged by many here as being a mistake hasn't it?

You have responded plenty of times. At what point do we move on or are you intent making this split wider?

Are you going to pull up the others who are intent in dismissing my and other's views in the interests of fairness?

The split has been created by HSL, not by me.....On that note, I will bow out, wouldn't want banned for responding

[DaveF]

When it comes to match attendance, they likely can't. Why should an overseas fan be given priority in purchasing match tickets over, say, someone who attends 7 or 8 games a season as a walk up fan?

Loyalty points aren't about wearing a wee badge that says how great a Hibs fan you are, they're about rewarding attendance at matches with priority for purchasing tickets for matches.

For someone who does not hold a ST and therefore isn't very loyal, this getting you worked up ;-)

[DaveF]

Are you going to pull up the others who are intent in dismissing my and other's views in the interests of fairness?

The split has been created by HSL, not by me.....On that note, I will bow out, wouldn't want banned for responding

Oh come on, now you are just being petty.

I'm not dismissing any opinion. Its all valid.

I just don't see the sense or point (pardon the pun) in keeping this going. Where does it end?

[lucky]

When it comes to match attendance, they likely can't. Why should an overseas fan be given priority in purchasing match tickets over, say, someone who attends 7 or 8 games a season as a walk up fan?

Loyalty points aren't about wearing a wee badge that says how great a Hibs fan you are, they're about rewarding attendance at matches with priority for purchasing tickets for matches.

Sorry but that's your interpretation, loyalty to Hibs comes in many different formats and if someone is willing to spend an extra £225 to get 100 loyalty points then I'm delighted as its more money to Hibs

[Baldy Foghorn]

Oh come on, now you are just being petty.

I'm not dismissing any opinion. Its all valid.

I just don't see the sense or point (pardon the pun) in keeping this going. Where does it end?

OK fair do's.............:aok:

[Ray_]

Like I have said before, those fans abroad who contribute financially to Hibs are also contributing to the quality those lucky enough to attend gets to watch. If anything, they should be applauded.

Some people are so preoccupied with what other people have that they can't appreciate what they have themselves.

Anything, within reason and legal, that helps the financially, will do me.

Around 12 years ago I was being described as a bed wetter for suggesting Rod Petrie was bad for Hibs and that we needed a professional to run the club. Millions of pounds and many miserable years later, we now have such a professional and I'm beginning to believe we have now found a true description of that awful term.

[lord bunberry]

Why? are you struggling for point to get a derby ticket? It's about rewarding the loyal fans that attend.

I've got 425 points

[matty_f]

Like I have said before, those fans abroad who contribute financially to Hibs are also contributing to the quality those lucky enough to attend gets to watch. If anything, they should be applauded.

Some people are so preoccupied with what other people have that they can't appreciate what they have themselves.

Anything, within reason and legal, that helps the financially, will do me.

Around 12 years ago I was being described as a bed wetter for suggesting Rod Petrie was bad for Hibs and that we needed a professional to run the club. Millions of pounds and many miserable years later, we now have such a professional and I'm beginning to believe we have now found a true description of that awful term.

Now that's holding a grudge!! :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

On a side issue, I have just received an email from HSL asking for more money.

However, it starts off "Dear Barbara Macfarlane " ....which I'm clearly not. :)

Wtf is Barbara Macfarlane, and has she got my 100 points?

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[NAE NOOKIE]

Jeez, take my points when I get them. I dont need or want them. Club tries best to encourage sign ups by offering incentive - it backfires a bit and everyone more or less sees that - but some cant just accept its an error to learn from and now want hammer a scheme intended to help fund the club while aiming for ownership.

I know you support the club more than most but you are doing your level best to fan the flames of discontent here.

I think everybody accepts its an error to learn from Dave, but its also an error that needs to be fixed. If its not, that's what will fan the flames of discontent.

For all my moaning on here I don't have any problem with the loyalty scheme. I'm happy to accept there are thousands of folk in front of me who have accumulated more points by attending away games. Even though I attend every home game I don't even make the first wave for next months derby, that's my tough luck.

If loyalty points are being given to folk for doing exactly what I have done but not to me, that stops being my tough luck and starts being the club using the scheme in a way it should never be used ..... that being to advantage one set of supporters over another even though their input to the club is exactly the same.

If you are looking to cause discontent that's exactly the way to go about it and much as I hate to see any division between the club and its support, or different sections of its support with each other, I refuse to stand back and be treated unfairly, especially by a club scheme which by its very nature is supposed to have been put in place to ensure fairness ....... how can that happen if its used in an unfair way?

Folks anger is not directed at HSL it is most squarely aimed at the club for allowing this situation to arise, and that anger will grow if they don't do something to redress the balance, believe you me.

[Ray_]

Now that's holding a grudge!! :greengrin

:thumbsup:

To be fair Matty, my stance didn't alter until RP slipped in to the background and therefore the term remained throughout most of that time. :greengrin

[Danderhall Hibs]

Those that go every week won't be affected by the 100 points will they? They'll always be in the top band - it's guys like me that don't go to away games very often that could miss out because of it. As well as people that "only" go to less than 9 home games a season being below the 100 club.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Are you going to pull up the others who are intent in dismissing my and other's views in the interests of fairness?

The split has been created by HSL, not by me.....On that note, I will bow out, wouldn't want banned for responding

We are in agreement on this BF. But I would say I in no way blame HSL for any ructions this has caused. In every way Hibs are to blame for failing to do one of two things:

1) Agree to HSL's request, but extend the points to every fan who had bought shares.

2) Say no to HSL's request.

The fact that they did neither is a failure on Hibs part and also gives credence to those folk who have previously voiced concern that having members of the Hibs board on the board of HSL wasn't a good idea .......... I wasn't one of them, but now I'm beginning to wonder.

[DaveF]

OK fair do's.............:aok:

With the hsl meeting tomorrow and PB and lucky going along I'd hope there will be a suitable response from hsl on this matter which can hopefully appease everyone.

Fan ownership will not be for everyone and that's fair enough. Nothing hsl can do to attract those people.

However, it should be capable of bringing on board a good section of the support and it would be a real shame if something like this points issue divided the fans and damaged a means of further funding open to the club.

[BSEJVT]

My God

I gave up reading this after page 2 but its absolute torture.

How do some of the posters ever leave the house in the morning if they spend all day and night worrying about things that haven't happened, probably wont, but under some circumstances could.

You do all know that conceivably the sun could burn itself out and we would all be totally screwed anyway?

As a guy who lived bi-annually through the ticket scrambles to get to Wembley in the 70's and 80's my experience was and is, if you want a ticket badly enough you get one.

I absolutely guarantee you that if you want to see a game badly enough you will find a way to get there.

We used to find 50 odd tickets for our bus alone for Wembley every 2 years from scratch, when there were probably knocking on 100,000 Scotsmen who want to go.

There must be some real geniuses on this board, guys who have set things up totally from new with the best of intentions, but with no experience of the intricate of working of things who have happily found that it all worked out just great with no teething troubles whatsoever. Aye right.

Life isn't perfect the club are learning as they go.

They set up something to try and reward loyalty in whatever shape and form it comes and get crucified. They would have had less aggro for doing nothing.

If the price of investment into the club and incentivizing that investment is that I don't get to go to Tynecastle for either game I am okay with that.

I have supported Hibs consciously for 46 years and hope to do so for another 46.

My time on earth as a Hibs Supporter wont be defined by missing the odd game here and there.

For a lot of those 46 years we have been pretty rubbish, we have a probably once in a lifetime chance to transform the club and we are squabbling like bairns over unintended consequences of what happens as we undergo the necessary revolution to get there. Take a step back and see the bigger picture.

Here's an idea though, why don't those that are mumping about what might happen wait and see if there is a problem then if there is moan about it then?

Mumping now wont change anything, but it does cause dissention.

There is a whole lot going on at the club to be enthusiastic about, try focussing on that.

[RyeSloan]

My God I gave up reading this after page 2 but its absolute torture. How do some of the posters ever leave the house in the morning if they spend all day and night worrying about things that haven't happened, probably wont, but under some circumstances could. You do all know that conceivably the sun could burn itself out and we would all be totally screwed anyway? As a guy who lived bi-annually through the ticket scrambles to get to Wembley in the 70's and 80's my experience was and is, if you want a ticket badly enough you get one. I absolutely guarantee you that if you want to see a game badly enough you will find a way to get there. We used to find 50 odd tickets for our bus alone for Wembley every 2 years from scratch, when there were probably knocking on 100,000 Scotsmen who want to go. There must be some real geniuses on this board, guys who have set things up totally from new with the best of intentions, but with no experience of the intricate of working of things who have happily found that it all worked out just great with no teething troubles whatsoever. Aye right. Life isn't perfect the club are learning as they go. They set up something to try and reward loyalty in whatever shape and form it comes and get crucified. They would have had less aggro for doing nothing. If the price of investment into the club and incentivizing that investment is that I don't get to go to Tynecastle for either game I am okay with that. I have supported Hibs consciously for 46 years and hope to do so for another 46. My time on earth as a Hibs Supporter wont be defined by missing the odd game here and there. For a lot of those 46 years we have been pretty rubbish, we have a probably once in a lifetime chance to transform the club and we are squabbling like bairns over unintended consequences of what happens as we undergo the necessary revolution to get there. Take a step back and see the bigger picture. Here's an idea though, why don't those that are mumping about what might happen wait and see if there is a problem then if there is moan about it then? Mumping now wont change anything, but it does cause dissention. There is a whole lot going on at the club to be enthusiastic about, try focussing on that.

I love this post...

[Ozyhibby]

My God

I gave up reading this after page 2 but its absolute torture.

How do some of the posters ever leave the house in the morning if they spend all day and night worrying about things that haven't happened, probably wont, but under some circumstances could.

You do all know that conceivably the sun could burn itself out and we would all be totally screwed anyway?

As a guy who lived bi-annually through the ticket scrambles to get to Wembley in the 70's and 80's my experience was and is, if you want a ticket badly enough you get one.

I absolutely guarantee you that if you want to see a game badly enough you will find a way to get there.

We used to find 50 odd tickets for our bus alone for Wembley every 2 years from scratch, when there were probably knocking on 100,000 Scotsmen who want to go.

There must be some real geniuses on this board, guys who have set things up totally from new with the best of intentions, but with no experience of the intricate of working of things who have happily found that it all worked out just great with no teething troubles whatsoever. Aye right.

Life isn't perfect the club are learning as they go.

They set up something to try and reward loyalty in whatever shape and form it comes and get crucified. They would have had less aggro for doing nothing.

If the price of investment into the club and incentivizing that investment is that I don't get to go to Tynecastle for either game I am okay with that.

I have supported Hibs consciously for 46 years and hope to do so for another 46.

My time on earth as a Hibs Supporter wont be defined by missing the odd game here and there.

For a lot of those 46 years we have been pretty rubbish, we have a probably once in a lifetime chance to transform the club and we are squabbling like bairns over unintended consequences of what happens as we undergo the necessary revolution to get there. Take a step back and see the bigger picture.

Here's an idea though, why don't those that are mumping about what might happen wait and see if there is a problem then if there is moan about it then?

Mumping now wont change anything, but it does cause dissention.

There is a whole lot going on at the club to be enthusiastic about, try focussing on that.

A fine post.
And remember to sign up. [emoji3]

http://www.hiberniansupporters.co.uk/phone/donate.html

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[marinello59]

Walk ups are recognised now, not forgotten about......

How many walk up fans have made it in to the top group? Or even the second group? They may have points but they will be no closer to getting tickets for big games than they were before.
The system has resulted in some of us being guaranteed tickets for some away games and that's it. All I ever expected was a decent chance of getting a ticket and have always accepted that demand meant I would occasionally miss out. Thinking about it though I haven't failed to get a ticket for a match I wanted to go to in the past ten years so the practical difference it has made for me and many others I suspect is nowt. That's why I am questioning if it's worth it at all.

[marinello59]

My God

I gave up reading this after page 2 but its absolute torture.

How do some of the posters ever leave the house in the morning if they spend all day and night worrying about things that haven't happened, probably wont, but under some circumstances could.

You do all know that conceivably the sun could burn itself out and we would all be totally screwed anyway?

As a guy who lived bi-annually through the ticket scrambles to get to Wembley in the 70's and 80's my experience was and is, if you want a ticket badly enough you get one.

I absolutely guarantee you that if you want to see a game badly enough you will find a way to get there.

We used to find 50 odd tickets for our bus alone for Wembley every 2 years from scratch, when there were probably knocking on 100,000 Scotsmen who want to go.

There must be some real geniuses on this board, guys who have set things up totally from new with the best of intentions, but with no experience of the intricate of working of things who have happily found that it all worked out just great with no teething troubles whatsoever. Aye right.

Life isn't perfect the club are learning as they go.

They set up something to try and reward loyalty in whatever shape and form it comes and get crucified. They would have had less aggro for doing nothing.

If the price of investment into the club and incentivizing that investment is that I don't get to go to Tynecastle for either game I am okay with that.

I have supported Hibs consciously for 46 years and hope to do so for another 46.

My time on earth as a Hibs Supporter wont be defined by missing the odd game here and there.

For a lot of those 46 years we have been pretty rubbish, we have a probably once in a lifetime chance to transform the club and we are squabbling like bairns over unintended consequences of what happens as we undergo the necessary revolution to get there. Take a step back and see the bigger picture.

Here's an idea though, why don't those that are mumping about what might happen wait and see if there is a problem then if there is moan about it then?

Mumping now wont change anything, but it does cause dissention.

There is a whole lot going on at the club to be enthusiastic about, try focussing on that.
:top marks

[ronaldo7]

Oh come on, now you are just being petty.

I'm not dismissing any opinion. Its all valid.

I just don't see the sense or point (pardon the pun) in keeping this going. Where does it end?

It will end when the club decide to give everyone 100 points who's joined or will join HSL, not forgetting the shareholders:wink:

If not, I predict this to run and run.

[flash]

The strange thing is its the people who will never miss out on a ticket who are doing 99% of the moaning.

[matty_f]

The strange thing is its the people who will never miss out on a ticket who are doing 99% of the moaning.

:agree: I don't think the 100 points is going to impact their ability to get a ticket, either.

[Hermit Crab]

The strange thing is its the people who will never miss out on a ticket who are doing 99% of the moaning.


You know why? They have backed the club and been loyal by attending every game, home and away. No wonder some are upset at the potential that someone who has not been to an away game can end up with more points than someone who has been attending.

[CapitalGreen]

You know why? They have backed the club and been loyal by attending every game, home and away. No wonder some are upset at the potential that someone who has not been to an away game can end up with more points than someone who has been attending.

So the truth is, if it wasn't already obvious, you are more worried about someone just having more points than you rather than the impact on your ability to get a ticket.

[matty_f]

So the truth is, if it wasn't already obvious, you are more worried about someone just having more points than you rather than the impact on your ability to get a ticket.

Nailed it, imho.

[Hermit Crab]

So the truth is, if it wasn't already obvious, you are more worried about someone just having more points than you rather than the impact on your ability to get a ticket.


Never said me, I said they. The truth is, it was a sneaky and underhand tactic that hsl used to get people to part with their money.


Do you think it's fair that someone who's not been to every game can have more points than someone who has? Yes or No?

[Ged]

The strange thing is its the people who will never miss out on a ticket who are doing 99% of the moaning.

Some people are just too stupid to see beyond their own interests. Just wait until we have fan ownership and these idiots are making decisions.

[Ged]

Never said me, I said they. The truth is, it was a sneaky and underhand tactic that hsl used to get people to part with their money.


Do you think it's fair that someone who's not been to every game can have more points than someone who has? Yes or No?

Yes. Because they're putting money into Hibs, not Scotrail and Dumbarton.

Of course points should be given for attending away matches, but they should also go to people who put money into the club.

[CapitalGreen]

Never said me, I said they. The truth is, it was a sneaky and underhand tactic that hsl used to get people to part with their money.


Do you think it's fair that someone who's not been to every game can have more points than someone who has? Yes or No?

What's fair and what isn't should be determined by someone's ability to purchase a ticket with priority, not how many points they have. I've yet to see any scenario presented where a fan who has been to every game home and away would not be given first priority and miss out on a ticket. Points are a means of purchasing tickets with priority, they are not a badge of honour to show how many games you've been to.

[matty_f]

What's fair and what isn't should be determined by someone's ability to purchase a ticket with priority, not how many points they have. I've yet to see any scenario presented where a fan who has been to every game home and away would not be given first priority and miss out on a ticket. Points are a means of purchasing tickets with priority, they are not a badge of honour to show how many games you've been to.

Nailed it, imho. :greengrin

[Danderhall Hibs]

So the truth is, if it wasn't already obvious, you are more worried about someone just having more points than you rather than the impact on your ability to get a ticket.

It's increasingly looking like this.

[Andy74]

Yes. Because they're putting money into Hibs, not Scotrail and Dumbarton.

Of course points should be given for attending away matches, but they should also go to people who put money into the club.

The points also don't award attendance as such as keeps getting said.

They reward those who attend and also are able to buy tickets for away games direct from the club.

Quite a number of fans don't live near the stadium and don't necessarily know early enough in advance to get them sent out.

[Geo_1875]

Never said me, I said they. The truth is, it was a sneaky and underhand tactic that hsl used to get people to part with their money.


Do you think it's fair that someone who's not been to every game can have more points than someone who has? Yes or No?

How you can see it as sneaky and underhand for HSL to advertise that they had negotiated with HFC to award 100 loyalty points to their paid up members is beyond me.

It's a business for goodness sake. Anything that gets more money into the club is fair. And like it or not attending away games doesn't bring a penny to Hibs.

IIRC Rod once stood up at the AGM and said as much.

So yes I think it's fair that a ST holder with HSL membership could have more points than a ST holder who attends away games.

[blackpoolhibs]

How you can see it as sneaky and underhand for HSL to advertise that they had negotiated with HFC to award 100 loyalty points to their paid up members is beyond me.

It's a business for goodness sake. Anything that gets more money into the club is fair. And like it or not attending away games doesn't bring a penny to Hibs.

IIRC Rod once stood up at the AGM and said as much.

So yes I think it's fair that a ST holder with HSL membership could have more points than a ST holder who attends away games.

Again, exactly how i feel. I'd also say if i went into the club shop and spend £5k on shirts, hoodies, mugs, socks, calendars and the likes, i should get points for every purchase.

And if that took me over someone who went to away games, then great. My money has gone to Hibs, not Alloa or Dumbarton.

[Carheenlea]

For those who go to most games and have enough points to always be assured of first chance of tickets, it would be easy to adopt an "I'm alright Jack" viewpoint. I should always fall into the first wave of ticket allocation with my points, but I know lots of Hibs fans who go to games, but maybe with fewer points on board. I want a system that is fair for all match attending fans.

[matty_f]

For those who go to most games and have enough points to always be assured of first chance of tickets, it would be easy to adopt an "I'm alright Jack" viewpoint. I should always fall into the first wave of ticket allocation with my points, but I know lots of Hibs fans who go to games, but maybe with fewer points on board. I want a system that is fair for all match attending fans.

If they're regular home attenders and go away then they'll rack up enough points, surely?

If they're not, and pick and choose their games, then they need to accept others might be ahead of them.

[lord bunberry]

If they're regular home attenders and go away then they'll rack up enough points, surely?

If they're not, and pick and choose their games, then they need to accept others might be ahead of them.
Not necessarily, you said you haven't been to an away game this season. My Mrs and daughter have been to nearly every away game, you've got enough points for tynecastle, they don't. They both have season tickets, but can't make it for midweek cup games as the wee one is only 5.

[matty_f]

Not necessarily, you said you haven't been to an away game this season. My Mrs and daughter have been to nearly every away game, you've got enough points for tynecastle, they don't. They both have season tickets, but can't make it for midweek cup games as the wee one is only 5.

So they fall into the second group that i mentioned then. :agree:

[lord bunberry]

So they fall into the second group that i mentioned then. :agree:
My point was that in terms of games attended they've been to more than someone like yourself, but end up further down the food chain. I'm not having a go at you btw :greengrin

[matty_f]

My point was that in terms of games attended they've been to more than someone like yourself, but end up further down the food chain. I'm not having a go at you btw :greengrin

I'm quite happy to accept that others will be ahead of me though, that's the point i was making. At most i've missed one game at ER, have had season tickets for however many years, got the cup top up, and a semi final ticket. I'm not sure how the points get allocated but i get more for home games than away games from what i gather, so I will be ahead until there have been enough away games to overtake me, i imagine?

[Hibbyradge]

Never said me, I said they. The truth is, it was a sneaky and underhand tactic that hsl used to get people to part with their money.


Do you think it's fair that someone who's not been to every game can have more points than someone who has? Yes or No?

The chances of that happening are ridiculously slim so it's not worth worrying about.

However, if someone has been to, say 36 games and has paid another £225 into the club via HSL, I think it's perfectly reasonable that they have more points than someone who has been to 38 games, but doesn't donate to HSL.

But the fact remains, if someone attends all the games, they are guaranteed every ticket they ever want so what does it matter if someone has a slightly higher number of nebulous loyalty points?

[NAE NOOKIE]

There are so many people on here turning this into an argument about having a loyalty points scheme at all, or who should get loyalty points for what. I don't know why because that's not and never has been the problem. If it is for some folk then they should start a different thread to discuss it.

I couldn't care less what Hibs award loyalty points for, be that 180 for a season ticket or 1 point for buying a cup of Bovril. The whole crux of the argument and the whole point at issue here is that 'everybody' who buys a season ticket gets 180 points, that 'everybody' who buys a Bovril gets 1 point. I fail to see what's so difficult about that concept.

In the HSL situation Hibs have failed to follow that simple basic principle:

The product Hibs have asked people to buy in this instance is shares in the football club. To facilitate that HSL was set up to enable fans who for a variety of different reasons couldn't, or didn't want to, buy shares individually ..... instead these fans put money into a company whose sole purpose is to buy shares in Hibernian Football club. Whether the club sells shares to HSL or to an individual shareholder its exactly the same ..... for every 4p spent the purchaser gets 1 share worth 2p. In view of that there is and should be no distinction between a fan who buys into the club privately or one who does it through the vehicle of HSL.

By awarding loyalty points only to fans who are buying shares through the vehicle of HSL Hibs have created a situation where individual fans buying a stake in the club that way are being given preferential treatment over those who have chosen, or been able to, go down the route of buying privately, even though the product each fan is buying is exactly the same and the benefit to the club from each purchase is exactly the same.

I simply cannot for the life of me see why any supporter of this club, or any person of reasonable intelligence for that matter, would see this as anything other than unfair and a corruption of a system which is supposed to promote fairness.

As for what should happen next:

This is not a situation where we simply learn and move on. Hibs need to act, and act swiftly, to redress the imbalance that has been caused by what they have done ....... whichever way they go, be that to remove the offer of loyalty points or to extend the award to 'all' shareholders I simply don't care ... but they must do one or the other, if not in my opinion they will not only have totally discredited the whole concept of a loyalty points scheme, they will have brought the club into disrepute.

[bigwheel]

There are so many people on here turning this into an argument about having a loyalty points scheme at all, or who should get loyalty points for what. I don't know why because that's not and never has been the problem. If it is for some folk then they should start a different thread to discuss it.

I couldn't care less what Hibs award loyalty points for, be that 180 for a season ticket or 1 point for buying a cup of Bovril. The whole crux of the argument and the whole point at issue here is that 'everybody' who buys a season ticket gets 180 points, that 'everybody' who buys a Bovril gets 1 point. I fail to see what's so difficult about that concept.

In the HSL situation Hibs have failed to follow that simple basic principle:

The product Hibs have asked people to buy in this instance is shares in the football club. To facilitate that HSL was set up to enable fans who for a variety of different reasons couldn't, or didn't want to, buy shares individually ..... instead these fans put money into a company whose sole purpose is to buy shares in Hibernian Football club. Whether the club sells shares to HSL or to an individual shareholder its exactly the same ..... for every 4p spent the purchaser gets 1 share worth 2p. In view of that there is and should be no distinction between a fan who buys into the club privately or one who does it through the vehicle of HSL.

By awarding loyalty points only to fans who are buying shares through the vehicle of HSL Hibs have created a situation where individual fans buying a stake in the club that way are being given preferential treatment over those who have chosen, or been able to, go down the route of buying privately, even though the product each fan is buying is exactly the same and the benefit to the club from each purchase is exactly the same.

I simply cannot for the life of me see why any supporter of this club, or any person of reasonable intelligence for that matter, would see this as anything other than unfair and a corruption of a system which is supposed to promote fairness.

As for what should happen next:

This is not a situation where we simply learn and move on. Hibs need to act, and act swiftly, to redress the imbalance that has been caused by what they have done ....... whichever way they go, be that to remove the offer of loyalty points or to extend the award to 'all' shareholders I simply don't care ... but they must do one or the other, if not in my opinion they will not only have totally discredited the whole concept of a loyalty points scheme, they will have brought the club into disrepute.


Hibs co-operated with HSL to offer an extra incentive to encourage getting involved in the approach to fan ownership - For me - it was done with the best intent and overall the loyalty scheme is working. Much more important topics around..such as 3 points this weekend!

[matty_f]

Shares and HSL are not exactly the same thing, by the way.

[Hibbyradge]

There are so many people on here turning this into an argument about having a loyalty points scheme at all, or who should get loyalty points for what. I don't know why because that's not and never has been the problem. If it is for some folk then they should start a different thread to discuss it.

I couldn't care less what Hibs award loyalty points for, be that 180 for a season ticket or 1 point for buying a cup of Bovril. The whole crux of the argument and the whole point at issue here is that 'everybody' who buys a season ticket gets 180 points, that 'everybody' who buys a Bovril gets 1 point. I fail to see what's so difficult about that concept.

In the HSL situation Hibs have failed to follow that simple basic principle:

The product Hibs have asked people to buy in this instance is shares in the football club. To facilitate that HSL was set up to enable fans who for a variety of different reasons couldn't, or didn't want to, buy shares individually ..... instead these fans put money into a company whose sole purpose is to buy shares in Hibernian Football club. Whether the club sells shares to HSL or to an individual shareholder its exactly the same ..... for every 4p spent the purchaser gets 1 share worth 2p. In view of that there is and should be no distinction between a fan who buys into the club privately or one who does it through the vehicle of HSL.

By awarding loyalty points only to fans who are buying shares through the vehicle of HSL Hibs have created a situation where individual fans buying a stake in the club that way are being given preferential treatment over those who have chosen, or been able to, go down the route of buying privately, even though the product each fan is buying is exactly the same and the benefit to the club from each purchase is exactly the same.

I simply cannot for the life of me see why any supporter of this club, or any person of reasonable intelligence for that matter, would see this as anything other than unfair and a corruption of a system which is supposed to promote fairness.

As for what should happen next:

This is not a situation where we simply learn and move on. Hibs need to act, and act swiftly, to redress the imbalance that has been caused by what they have done ....... whichever way they go, be that to remove the offer of loyalty points or to extend the award to 'all' shareholders I simply don't care ... but they must do one or the other, if not in my opinion they will not only have totally discredited the whole concept of a loyalty points scheme, they will have brought the club into disrepute.

I can agree with that. However, loyalty points drop off after every couple of years, so only those who bought direct within that timescale should be given points.

[stantonhibby]

There are so many people on here turning this into an argument about having a loyalty points scheme at all, or who should get loyalty points for what. I don't know why because that's not and never has been the problem. If it is for some folk then they should start a different thread to discuss it.

I couldn't care less what Hibs award loyalty points for, be that 180 for a season ticket or 1 point for buying a cup of Bovril. The whole crux of the argument and the whole point at issue here is that 'everybody' who buys a season ticket gets 180 points, that 'everybody' who buys a Bovril gets 1 point. I fail to see what's so difficult about that concept.

In the HSL situation Hibs have failed to follow that simple basic principle:

The product Hibs have asked people to buy in this instance is shares in the football club. To facilitate that HSL was set up to enable fans who for a variety of different reasons couldn't, or didn't want to, buy shares individually ..... instead these fans put money into a company whose sole purpose is to buy shares in Hibernian Football club. Whether the club sells shares to HSL or to an individual shareholder its exactly the same ..... for every 4p spent the purchaser gets 1 share worth 2p. In view of that there is and should be no distinction between a fan who buys into the club privately or one who does it through the vehicle of HSL.

By awarding loyalty points only to fans who are buying shares through the vehicle of HSL Hibs have created a situation where individual fans buying a stake in the club that way are being given preferential treatment over those who have chosen, or been able to, go down the route of buying privately, even though the product each fan is buying is exactly the same and the benefit to the club from each purchase is exactly the same.

I simply cannot for the life of me see why any supporter of this club, or any person of reasonable intelligence for that matter, would see this as anything other than unfair and a corruption of a system which is supposed to promote fairness.

As for what should happen next:

This is not a situation where we simply learn and move on. Hibs need to act, and act swiftly, to redress the imbalance that has been caused by what they have done ....... whichever way they go, be that to remove the offer of loyalty points or to extend the award to 'all' shareholders I simply don't care ... but they must do one or the other, if not in my opinion they will not only have totally discredited the whole concept of a loyalty points scheme, they will have brought the club into disrepute.

I accept your point of principal about all shareholders being treated equally, I really do. However to turn your own point around I fail to see how any person of a reasonable intelligence can get so hot and bothered about a loyalty points scheme.

Talk of corruption and disrepute is just ridiculous when to take this to its logical conclusion all we are talking about is a fan's ability to buy tickets for a football match and the minimal occasions where the loyalty scheme will be required to facilitate this.

[hibee_nation]

There are so many people on here turning this into an argument about having a loyalty points scheme at all, or who should get loyalty points for what. I don't know why because that's not and never has been the problem. If it is for some folk then they should start a different thread to discuss it.

I couldn't care less what Hibs award loyalty points for, be that 180 for a season ticket or 1 point for buying a cup of Bovril. The whole crux of the argument and the whole point at issue here is that 'everybody' who buys a season ticket gets 180 points, that 'everybody' who buys a Bovril gets 1 point. I fail to see what's so difficult about that concept.

In the HSL situation Hibs have failed to follow that simple basic principle:

The product Hibs have asked people to buy in this instance is shares in the football club. To facilitate that HSL was set up to enable fans who for a variety of different reasons couldn't, or didn't want to, buy shares individually ..... instead these fans put money into a company whose sole purpose is to buy shares in Hibernian Football club. Whether the club sells shares to HSL or to an individual shareholder its exactly the same ..... for every 4p spent the purchaser gets 1 share worth 2p. In view of that there is and should be no distinction between a fan who buys into the club privately or one who does it through the vehicle of HSL.

By awarding loyalty points only to fans who are buying shares through the vehicle of HSL Hibs have created a situation where individual fans buying a stake in the club that way are being given preferential treatment over those who have chosen, or been able to, go down the route of buying privately, even though the product each fan is buying is exactly the same and the benefit to the club from each purchase is exactly the same.

I simply cannot for the life of me see why any supporter of this club, or any person of reasonable intelligence for that matter, would see this as anything other than unfair and a corruption of a system which is supposed to promote fairness.

As for what should happen next:

This is not a situation where we simply learn and move on. Hibs need to act, and act swiftly, to redress the imbalance that has been caused by what they have done ....... whichever way they go, be that to remove the offer of loyalty points or to extend the award to 'all' shareholders I simply don't care ... but they must do one or the other, if not in my opinion they will not only have totally discredited the whole concept of a loyalty points scheme, they will have brought the club into disrepute.

As has been explained to you numerous times personal shares and joining hsl do not give you the same privileges there are advantages to owning shares hsl do not get. To be honest you are sounding like a broken record imho

[Ozyhibby]

Shares and HSL are not exactly the same thing, by the way.

I've been trying to say that but it doesn't seem to get through.

http://www.hiberniansupporters.co.uk/phone/donate.html


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Carheenlea]

If they're regular home attenders and go away then they'll rack up enough points, surely?

If they're not, and pick and choose their games, then they need to accept others might be ahead of them.

They are of varying regularity of getting to games, and I'm sure they accept that others may be ahead of them for certain ticketing arrangements, but as long as it is fair, and in my view the fairest way to do this is allocating points on match tickets bought, both home and away, and in match tickets bought only.
That's my view and I've had a few cracks at the whip in posting those views, but because the views on both sides are entrenched, continued argument is taking us nowhere. Everyone needs to accept that there is differing opinion on this, and as it's unlikely that the HSL points will be removed, or all shareholders and HSL members get awarded 100 points then it's time to move on before anyone falls out. If one thing can be learned, it is maybe best not to steamroller future ideas through, however well meaning, without careful consideration of the consequences.

[Jamesconnolly]

I started this thread innocently asking about whether you get a certificate when making a one off payment to HSL.loyalty points didn't even enter my head.I already pay for four season tickets,pay £5 a month to HSL and now have spare money to pay a one off fee to get a certificate that shows I have some sort of stake in my club.now I understand I will get 100 points for my £5 DD and another 100 for my one off payment.happy days!but really I don't care.apart from the saville dome I will never struggle for a ticket anyway.
I do think people who have bought shares should retrospectively receive 100 points.
Folk that go to away matches shouldn't expect this as Hibs make heehaw from it.

[NAE NOOKIE]

As has been explained to you numerous times personal shares and joining hsl do not give you the same privileges there are advantages to owning shares hsl do not get. To be honest you are sounding like a broken record imho

A season ticket gets you access to behind the goals, a walk up ticket does not and yet loyalty points are awarded for both, because both put money into the club.

I follow Hibs to watch the team play football, not to wait with baited breath for the AGM every year. If that's the issue let HSL ask Hibs to allow their members to attend the AGM. This is about access to matches and the whole point of the loyalty points scheme is to ensure that people get access to match tickets based on their input to the club. That is the only 'privilege' a fan cares about and it doesn't matter a damn if its only a factor in one match every two seasons. What you get for being an individual shareholder outwith access to matches in the context of this debate is a total Red Herring .... no matter how many times its "been explained to me"

If I sound like a stuck record. If I'm boring you ............. too bad. To the whole fibre of my being I hate unfairness, I hate to see it and worse of all I hate to be the victim of it ...... all I want is to be treated exactly the same as my fellow supporters proportionate to my and their input to the club, no more no less. If getting people to understand that Hibs actions here are totally at odds with that, patently unfair and utterly indefensible means running this thread to a hundred pages I'll be happy to do it.

[marinello59]

A season ticket gets you access to behind the goals, a walk up ticket does not and yet loyalty points are awarded for both, because both put money into the club.

I follow Hibs to watch the team play football, not to wait with baited breath for the AGM every year. If that's the issue let HSL ask Hibs to allow their members to attend the AGM. This is about access to matches and the whole point of the loyalty points scheme is to ensure that people get access to match tickets based on their input to the club. That is the only 'privilege' a fan cares about and it doesn't matter a damn if its only a factor in one match every two seasons. What you get for being an individual shareholder outwith access to matches in the context of this debate is a total Red Herring .... no matter how many times its "been explained to me"

If I sound like a stuck record. If I'm boring you ............. too bad. To the whole fibre of my being I hate unfairness, I hate to see it and worse of all I hate to be the victim of it ...... all I want is to be treated exactly the same as my fellow supporters proportionate to my and their input to the club, no more no less. If getting people to understand that Hibs actions here are totally at odds with that, patently unfair and utterly indefensible means running this thread to a hundred pages I'll be happy to do it.

People disagree with you. Other people agree up to a point
but don't think it's that big a deal. You really don't understand that do you?

[matty_f]

A season ticket gets you access to behind the goals, a walk up ticket does not and yet loyalty points are awarded for both, because both put money into the club.

I follow Hibs to watch the team play football, not to wait with baited breath for the AGM every year. If that's the issue let HSL ask Hibs to allow their members to attend the AGM. This is about access to matches and the whole point of the loyalty points scheme is to ensure that people get access to match tickets based on their input to the club. That is the only 'privilege' a fan cares about and it doesn't matter a damn if its only a factor in one match every two seasons. What you get for being an individual shareholder outwith access to matches in the context of this debate is a total Red Herring .... no matter how many times its "been explained to me"

If I sound like a stuck record. If I'm boring you ............. too bad. To the whole fibre of my being I hate unfairness, I hate to see it and worse of all I hate to be the victim of it ...... all I want is to be treated exactly the same as my fellow supporters proportionate to my and their input to the club, no more no less. If getting people to understand that Hibs actions here are totally at odds with that, patently unfair and utterly indefensible means running this thread to a hundred pages I'll be happy to do it.

I suppose it comes down to how unfair you see it, and there's not much anyone is going to be able to say to you to change your mind. The key thing for me is that there is a difference between being a subscriber to HSL, and a shareholder of the football club.

I say that as a shareholder, by the way.

You're buying two different products, although the funds may end up in the same place, it's not the same as buying a home strip against buying an away strip. Or taking hospitality at a game and buying a scarf.

When the share issue was released (along with HSL) there was no commitment to give loyalty points (or anything other than shares) to anyone buying directly. This was consistent with share purchases in the past. That, to me, is fair.

HSL had never been done before. It is asking people to pay to become members so that, eventually, we have fan ownership at the club.

The shares were available for a limited time, HSL is an ongoing scheme. They're not the same. There's absolutely no obligation, morally or otherwise, for the club to offer loyalty points to shareholders because they offered it to HSL subscribers.

I can understand why you think it's unfair, but I think you're being unreasonable in that respect. You have been treated fairly, you got the same treatment as other shareholders. Like for like, you weren't treated any differently.

[marinello59]

I suppose it comes down to how unfair you see it, and there's not much anyone is going to be able to say to you to change your mind. The key thing for me is that there is a difference between being a subscriber to HSL, and a shareholder of the football club.

I say that as a shareholder, by the way. You're buying two different products, although the funds may end up in the same place, it's not the same as buying a home strip against buying an away strip. Or taking hospitality at a game and buying a scarf.

When the share issue was released (along with HSL) there was no commitment to give loyalty points (or anything other than shares) to anyone buying directly. This was consistent with share purchases in the past. That, to me, is fair.

HSL had never been done before. It is asking people to pay to become members so that, eventually, we have fan ownership at the club.

The shares were available for a limited time, HSL is an ongoing scheme. They're not the same. There's absolutely no obligation, morally or otherwise, for the club to offer loyalty points to shareholders because they offered it to HSL subscribers.

I can understand why you think it's unfair, but I think you're being unreasonable in that respect. You have been treated fairly, you got the same treatment as other shareholders. Like for like, you weren't treated any differently.

Spot on.

[lucky]

I started this thread innocently asking about whether you get a certificate when making a one off payment to HSL.loyalty points didn't even enter my head.I already pay for four season tickets,pay £5 a month to HSL and now have spare money to pay a one off fee to get a certificate that shows I have some sort of stake in my club.now I understand I will get 100 points for my £5 DD and another 100 for my one off payment.happy days!but really I don't care.apart from the saville dome I will never struggle for a ticket anyway.
I do think people who have bought shares should retrospectively receive 100 points.
Folk that go to away matches shouldn't expect this as Hibs make heehaw from it.

You'll only get 100 points in total for your HSL membership. If you used you logic on the points then anyone anyone paying the £18.75 would split their donation up and get 300 points. That's just not going to happen.

[Golden Bear]

I've been an "original" shareholder for many years, I've never received any loyalty points nor do I expect to receive any in the future.

My aim at the time of purchase was to try and prevent walnut merciless from taking over then closing down my beloved club. Frankly, I'm now finding all this talk about HSL and the distribution of loyalty points a bit tiresome.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I started this thread innocently asking about whether you get a certificate when making a one off payment to HSL.loyalty points didn't even enter my head.I already pay for four season tickets,pay £5 a month to HSL and now have spare money to pay a one off fee to get a certificate that shows I have some sort of stake in my club.now I understand I will get 100 points for my £5 DD and another 100 for my one off payment.happy days!but really I don't care.apart from the saville dome I will never struggle for a ticket anyway.
I do think people who have bought shares should retrospectively receive 100 points.
Folk that go to away matches shouldn't expect this as Hibs make heehaw from it.

I actually don't agree with that Souter Hibby. I think the club benefits from their support in a different way and their effort deserves to be rewarded, especially when without exception loyalty points are only ever going to be a factor for away games ..... if you support the team away regularly a decent shot for an away game seems reasonable, to me at least.

If you want to make a big deal out of this just geez yer stand & seat number http://www.hibs.net/images/smilies/take%20that!.gif

[NAE NOOKIE]

I suppose it comes down to how unfair you see it, and there's not much anyone is going to be able to say to you to change your mind. The key thing for me is that there is a difference between being a subscriber to HSL, and a shareholder of the football club.

I say that as a shareholder, by the way.

You're buying two different products, although the funds may end up in the same place, it's not the same as buying a home strip against buying an away strip. Or taking hospitality at a game and buying a scarf.

When the share issue was released (along with HSL) there was no commitment to give loyalty points (or anything other than shares) to anyone buying directly. This was consistent with share purchases in the past. That, to me, is fair.

HSL had never been done before. It is asking people to pay to become members so that, eventually, we have fan ownership at the club.

The shares were available for a limited time, HSL is an ongoing scheme. They're not the same. There's absolutely no obligation, morally or otherwise, for the club to offer loyalty points to shareholders because they offered it to HSL subscribers.

I can understand why you think it's unfair, but I think you're being unreasonable in that respect. You have been treated fairly, you got the same treatment as other shareholders. Like for like, you weren't treated any differently.

I respect your point, which you have explained very clearly. Obviously I couldn't be any less in agreement with it.

[matty_f]

I respect your point, which you have explained very clearly. Obviously I couldn't be any less in agreement with it.

I didn't expect you to agree.:greengrin

You will once you've had time to reflect on it, though... :tee hee:

[NAE NOOKIE]

I didn't expect you to agree.:greengrin

You will once you've had time to reflect on it, though... :tee hee:

Nah http://www.hibs.net/images/smilies/taunt%20smiley.gif

[Hibbyradge]

Would I be right in saying that another big difference between HSL membership and being a Shareholder is that the latter could recoup their investment by selling their holding, whereas payments to HSL are donations, never to be seen again?

[Pretty Boy]

People do realise that in about 16 months the 100 points awarded to HSL members will drop off anyway and be totally irrelevant?

It was a token gesture, one that probably hasn't worked out but it's hardly a long term problem.

[matty_f]

Would I be right in saying that another big difference between HSL membership and being a Shareholder is that the latter could recoup their investment by selling their holding, whereas payments to HSL are donations, never to be seen again?

You would.:agree:

[Hibbyradge]

People do realise that in about 16 months the 100 points awarded to HSL members will drop off anyway and be totally irrelevant?

It was a token gesture, one that probably hasn't worked out but it's hardly a long term problem.

Loyalty tokens? :hyper

What a great idea!

[NAE NOOKIE]

Would I be right in saying that another big difference between HSL membership and being a Shareholder is that the latter could recoup their investment by selling their holding, whereas payments to HSL are donations, never to be seen again?

This is one of the things that's bugging me about this discussion.

Why has it been turned into a discussion about the relative merits of HSL v Individual shareholders? Were we not all motivated by the same goal, that being to buy into 51% fan ownership of Hibernian football club, see our money used for the clubs benefit and along the way have tangible evidence of our commitment to the club we all love, in the form of a share or HSL membership certificate?

None of us asked for or expected any reward from the club for doing that. I still don't and I'm sure that goes for 99.9% of those who bought into this, no matter how they did it.

I think Hibs have taken what was a beautiful thing and made a dugs dinner out of it. At the same time sewing the seeds of division when such a situation was totally avoidable, not to mention undesirable.

[Ozyhibby]

This is one of the things that's bugging me about this discussion.

Why has it been turned into a discussion about the relative merits of HSL v Individual shareholders? Were we not all motivated by the same goal, that being to buy into 51% fan ownership of Hibernian football club, see our money used for the clubs benefit and along the way have tangible evidence of our commitment to the club we all love, in the form of a share or HSL membership certificate?

None of us asked for or expected any reward from the club for doing that. I still don't and I'm sure that goes for 99.9% of those who bought into this, no matter how they did it.

I think Hibs have taken what was a beautiful thing and made a dugs dinner out of it. At the same time sewing the seeds of division when such a situation was totally avoidable, not to mention undesirable.

If there is no difference what made you opt for shares rather than join HSL? Did you just flip a coin?


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[Ozyhibby]

This is one of the things that's bugging me about this discussion.

Why has it been turned into a discussion about the relative merits of HSL v Individual shareholders? Were we not all motivated by the same goal, that being to buy into 51% fan ownership of Hibernian football club, see our money used for the clubs benefit and along the way have tangible evidence of our commitment to the club we all love, in the form of a share or HSL membership certificate?

None of us asked for or expected any reward from the club for doing that. I still don't and I'm sure that goes for 99.9% of those who bought into this, no matter how they did it.

I think Hibs have taken what was a beautiful thing and made a dugs dinner out of it. At the same time sewing the seeds of division when such a situation was totally avoidable, not to mention undesirable.

Here is a thought, why don't you transfer £225 worth of your shares to HSL and become a member? Then you get the best of both worlds? You are still a share owner with certificate etc but you also get loyalty points and the chance to be part of HSL? You still have a few days to be able to do this and then the whole support can move forward as one.


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[hibee_nation]

If there is no difference what made you opt for shares rather than join HSL? Did you just flip a coin?


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As an existing shareholder i chose hsl over more personal shares as hsl will guarantee the safety of Hibs forever. My shares will prob go to my daughter and who knows what she would do with them if it was a toss up selling them to some rogue for money for Ibiza or helping Hibs stay at ER :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

As an existing shareholder i chose hsl over more personal shares as hsl will guarantee the safety of Hibs forever. My shares will prob go to my daughter and who knows what she would do with them if it was a toss up selling them to some rogue for money for Ibiza or helping Hibs stay at ER :greengrin

I wouldn't even trust myself not to sell and spend the money on a trip to Ibiza. Has to be HSL. [emoji23]


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[hibee_nation]

I wouldn't even trust myself not to sell and spend the money on a trip to Ibiza. Has to be HSL. [emoji23]


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I might just do that i never been to the AGM in my life. :greengrin

[Leithenhibby]

Here is a thought, why don't you transfer £225 worth of your shares to HSL and become a member? Then you get the best of both worlds? You are still a share owner with certificate etc but you also get loyalty points and the chance to be part of HSL? You still have a few days to be able to do this and then the whole support can move forward as one.


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:agree:

Not such an outlandish idea for some of the shareholders to think about. :cb

http://www.hiberniansupporters.co.uk/contact-us.html

GGTTH

[PatHead]

:agree:

Not such an outlandish idea for some of the shareholders to think about. :cb

http://www.hiberniansupporters.co.uk/contact-us.html

GGTTH

How would Hibs benefit from that?

[Ozyhibby]

How would Hibs benefit from that?

Hibs wouldn't be harmed, the shares are already bought. Just a potential solution to the problem and get everyone behind HSL.


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[PatHead]

Hibs wouldn't be harmed, the shares are already bought. Just a potential solution to the problem and get everyone behind HSL.


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To what problem? Not trying to be smart just can't see an advantage to any shareholder gifting their shares to HSL. No new money is raised.

[Ozyhibby]

To what problem? Not trying to be smart just can't see an advantage to any shareholder gifting their shares to HSL. No new money is raised.

They get 100 loyalty points which is obviously important?


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[CropleyWasGod]

Hibs wouldn't be harmed, the shares are already bought. Just a potential solution to the problem and get everyone behind HSL.


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One would need a willing buyer of the shares as well, no?

Or are you saying that HSL actually buy/adopt them?

[PatHead]

They get 100 loyalty points which is obviously important?


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Other than that there appears to be no advantage. But going by your earlier post you agree that awarding loyalty points for HSL membership is a "problem" as well as an incentive.

[Ozyhibby]

One would need a willing buyer of the shares as well, no?

Or are you saying that HSL actually buy/adopt them?

Yes, HSL take the shares and give full membership. The shareholder then has HSL membership and 100 loyalty points. And still keeps the rest of his shares.


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[Hermit Crab]

Yes, HSL take the shares and give full membership. The shareholder then has HSL membership and 100 loyalty points. And still keeps the rest of his shares.


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Thought it wasn't about loyalty points?? :confused:

[Ozyhibby]

Thought it wasn't about loyalty points?? :confused:

It is for some, so here is a solution.


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[Hermit Crab]

It is for some, so here is a solution.


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What? Donate shares and get loyalty points? Seems legit.

[Ozyhibby]

What? Donate shares and get loyalty points? Seems legit.

No, donate shares and become an HSL member. It's not a trick, you have a very suspicious mind.


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[Danderhall Hibs]

No, donate shares and become an HSL member. It's not a trick, you have a very suspicious mind.


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He's caught in a trap.

[Leithenhibby]

Here is a thought, why don't you transfer £225 worth of your shares to HSL and become a member? Then you get the best of both worlds? You are still a share owner with certificate etc but you also get loyalty points and the chance to be part of HSL? You still have a few days to be able to do this and then the whole support can move forward as one.


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:agree:

Not such an outlandish idea for some of the shareholders to think about. :cb

http://www.hiberniansupporters.co.uk/contact-us.html

GGTTH


How would Hibs benefit from that?

As Ozyhibby has said, it could be a solution for some!....


Hibs wouldn't be harmed, the shares are already bought. Just a potential solution to the problem and get everyone behind HSL.

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It's not a bad idea, to be honest.

[ronaldo7]

They get 100 loyalty points which is obviously important?


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Yes, HSL take the shares and give full membership. The shareholder then has HSL membership and 100 loyalty points. And still keeps the rest of his shares.


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Have I missed the press release that the 100 points are available again if you join HSL?

You seem to have lots of points to be handed out, where are you getting them?:confused:

[Ozyhibby]

Have I missed the press release that the 100 points are available again if you join HSL?

You seem to have lots of points to be handed out, where are you getting them?:confused:

The club hand out the points. If you have paid up the £225 to become a full member by the end of the month you get the points same as every one else. The previous deadline was for those who are paying up monthly.


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[Brooster]

Any word on the number currently contributing to HSL and if the target of recruiting 300 new members by the end of January is nearing reality?

[ronaldo7]

The club hand out the points. If you have paid up the £225 to become a full member by the end of the month you get the points same as every one else. The previous deadline was for those who are paying up monthly.


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:aok: Every day's a school day.

[Jamesconnolly]

I actually don't agree with that Souter Hibby. I think the club benefits from their support in a different way and their effort deserves to be rewarded, especially when without exception loyalty points are only ever going to be a factor for away games ..... if you support the team away regularly a decent shot for an away game seems reasonable, to me at least.

If you want to make a big deal out of this just geez yer stand & seat number http://www.hibs.net/images/smilies/take%20that!.gif
Anytime wee man I deserve my points u dinnae :na na:

[NAE NOOKIE]

Anytime wee man I deserve my points u dinnae :na na:

You'll be sorry .... I'm handy :cb

[NAE NOOKIE]

If there is no difference what made you opt for shares rather than join HSL? Did you just flip a coin?


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I'll be honest, I liked the idea of directly owning a bit of the club rather than having a go between. I didn't for a second think that made me any better than folk doing it as a group like HSL ....... In fact over the last few weeks I had been giving serious consideration to joining HSL too, though my current monthly income these days makes even the minimum amount something I would have to think hard about.

That is still something I might do, if I can get over my inner turmoil as my hand hovers over the submit button :confused:

Whatever I decide one things for sure ...... It wont be before the 31st of January, even if I win the Euro Millions tomorrow.