Police Advice - Sectarian Singing

[Kojock]

Senior Police officer has given this advice to combat Sectarian singing.

"If you are sitting at a game and you're uncomfortable because of something you see or something you hear, the reality is people around you will probably be uncomfortable as well.
"That's unacceptable. What I would urge you to do is go and report it to the steward or go and report it to a police officer."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-35317169

[Danderhall Hibs]

Senior Police officer has given this advice to combat Sectarian singing.

"If you are sitting at a game and you're uncomfortable because of something you see or something you hear, the reality is people around you will probably be uncomfortable as well.
"That's unacceptable. What I would urge you to do is go and report it to the steward or go and report it to a police officer."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-35317169

:hilarious

[s.a.m]

:hilarious

Quite.

[Winston Ingram]

Senior Police officer has given this advice to combat Sectarian singing.

"If you are sitting at a game and you're uncomfortable because of something you see or something you hear, the reality is people around you will probably be uncomfortable as well.
"That's unacceptable. What I would urge you to do is go and report it to the steward or go and report it to a police officer."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-35317169

:faf:

[Keith_M]

A phrase ending wth the word 'Sherlock' springs to mind.

[Ringothedog]

:hilarious

Absolutely, you are the told to sit down or you will be "lifted" or thrown out. Token gesture from an organisation under pressure to be seen to be doing something.

[Scouse Hibee]

This guy sounds like some of the high court judges, hasnae a ****** clue about what happens in the real world.

[CB_NO3]

"policeman, 50k Rangers fans just called Stubbs a fenian *******

"dont know what your talking about"

[allezsauzee]

To be fair to the police and stewards, it's not realistic to lift 3000 plus supporters. This should be coming from the SPFL/SFA. The clubs should be docked points and thrown out of competitions and then we'll maybe see something happen. Clearly fines don't work.

[Greencore]

Better cancel the flute band I booked. Damn LOL!!

[Thecat23]

To be fair to the police and stewards, it's not realistic to lift 3000 plus supporters. This should be coming from the SPFL/SFA. The clubs should be docked points and thrown out of competitions and then we'll maybe see something happen. Clearly fines don't work.

This.

[Keith_M]

The very sight of 50,000 The Rangers Fans offends me. Can I report that to the Poilce?

[Drewster]

To be fair to the police and stewards, it's not realistic to lift 3000 plus supporters. This should be coming from the SPFL/SFA. The clubs should be docked points and thrown out of competitions and then we'll maybe see something happen. Clearly fines don't work.

Hallelujah - any decent football person knows the answer except those that can make it happen!!

An official warning to Club and fans and then start deducting 3 points on each occasion - it will stop very quickly!!!

[Danderhall Hibs]

Hallelujah - any decent football person knows the answer except those that can make it happen!!

An official warning to Club and fans and then start deducting 3 points on each occasion - it will stop very quickly!!!

They've been discussing this on the radio - the clubs won't allow that to happen. It's the clubs that are blocking the pits deduction/closed door matches as punishment.

[monktonharp]

To be fair to the police and stewards, it's not realistic to lift 3000 plus supporters. This should be coming from the SPFL/SFA. The clubs should be docked points and thrown out of competitions and then we'll maybe see something happen. Clearly fines don't work.right then, why did this senior polis man come out with that then? why did he not say, if people are complaining to us during matches, we will take this to another level and inform clubs, sfa/spfl that it is against the law therefor we shall take action against the aforementioned bodies if they cant control it? action from all concerned, is required now. Its gone on too long.

[Mikey09]

To be fair to the police and stewards, it's not realistic to lift 3000 plus supporters. This should be coming from the SPFL/SFA. The clubs should be docked points and thrown out of competitions and then we'll maybe see something happen. Clearly fines don't work.


I agree it's unrealistic to do this. However, standing by and watching The Rangers fans throw lighters, coins, cups of pish and anything else they can use as a missile is laughable. They completely ignore the morons who do this and when you do what this guy is saying you are told, as another poster pointed out, "sit down or yer lifted!"

[monktonharp]

I would actually like the clubs and sfa to define the meaning of "steward" at football matches. also let us know their real function, their training, their hierarchy atc, because I have yet to meet one who acts as if he /she knows his/her job. are any of them basic first aid trained? what would they do if a suspected heart attack event occurred?

[BoomtownHibees]

I would actually like the clubs and sfa to define the meaning of "steward" at football matches. also let us know their real function, their training, their hierarchy atc, because I have yet to meet one who acts as if he /she knows his/her job. are any of them basic first aid trained? what would they do if a suspected heart attack event occurred?

Shout on the first aid folk??

[superfurryhibby]

I wrote to the "Nil by Mouth" anti- sectarian organisation last year, highlighting that they were factually incorrect and actually at risk of colluding with the bigots by perpetrating the myth that Hibs fans are part of the sectarian equation.

I suggested to them that this was actually an apologist piece of nonsense largely based on the erroneous views of a small number of sports journalists who had their own agenda for ignoring the blatantly obvious fact that there is only one team in Edinburgh whose fans have an overt interest in "religion" based hate.

Fair enough, maybe they are too busy to bother responding etc, but it worried me that an organisation that is funded to raise awareness of sectarianism and bigotry should buy into this nonsense.

In order to eradicate the problem, truth, honesty and bravery are required. Trying to make the situation in Edinburgh football analogous with that in Glasgow actually helps the haters keep hating. If that's the best a funded body can do then we're a long way from ever being able to say we've made progress.

[Alfred E Newman]

This is an opportunity to put the deputy Chief constable on the spot by raising the issues that occurred at Ibrox directly with him. An official letter to him from our fans rep stating all the points mentioned on here and the apparent lack of protection given by both the police and stewards and let's see if it is just more empty rhetoric.

[monktonharp]

Shout on the first aid folk??Nah, I canny mate. I've got to stay here. standard reply

[Keith_M]

Police advice on sectarian singing....


"Do it among a Rangers support of thousands (normally called 'a minority'), as that way there's almost no chance of getting lifted"


...allegedly.

[GordonHFC]

The very sight of 50,000 The Rangers Fans offends me. Can I report that to the Poilce?

Yes you can but it is probably not worth the effort because the chances are that there is a 50/50 chance that Stewards and Police at matches in the west of the country will be singing along with them.

[Bristolhibby]

Senior Police officer has given this advice to combat Sectarian singing.

"If you are sitting at a game and you're uncomfortable because of something you see or something you hear, the reality is people around you will probably be uncomfortable as well.
"That's unacceptable. What I would urge you to do is go and report it to the steward or go and report it to a police officer."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-35317169

Lol. Seriously,we should all print out copies of this and take them with us in March when The The BRangers come a callin.

J

[silverhibee]

Senior Police officer has given this advice to combat Sectarian singing.

"If you are sitting at a game and you're uncomfortable because of something you see or something you hear, the reality is people around you will probably be uncomfortable as well.
"That's unacceptable. What I would urge you to do is go and report it to the steward or go and report it to a police officer."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-35317169


Scottish Police :faf:

[lord bunberry]

Senior Police officer has given this advice to combat Sectarian singing.

"If you are sitting at a game and you're uncomfortable because of something you see or something you hear, the reality is people around you will probably be uncomfortable as well.
"That's unacceptable. What I would urge you to do is go and report it to the steward or go and report it to a police officer."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-35317169
I would love this idiot to come to ibrox undercover and go and complain to the police in the stadium.

[cabbageandribs1875]

read that article last night and laughed for a full 3 mins, i thought i was reading a preview of this years only an excuse hogmanay special, of course the first problem is how to get the polis and stewards to stop joining in with the home fans at bigotbrox

[silverhibee]

I would love this idiot to come to ibrox undercover and go and complain to the police in the stadium.

He'd get lifted for complaining. :tee hee:

[Bostonhibby]

When I seen the thread title I must admit I thought the Glasgow police force were going to tell us all how to do it, god knows they stand and listen to it enough so they should know the words by now.

[givescotlandfreedom]

Is this before or after the officer tells you to shut up or you'll be lifted?

[southsider]

I suggested in my letter to the SFA is sectarian/racist/homophobic chanting is clearly heard (as in the case at our game at Ibrox) the 4th official goes to the match commander and asks f a tannoy announcement to stop the chants. If it continues then final warning given before abandoning the match. Points given to other team.

[Moulin Yarns]

I suggested in my letter to the SFA is sectarian/racist/homophobic chanting is clearly heard (as in the case at our game at Ibrox) the 4th official goes to the match commander and asks f a tannoy announcement to stop the chants. If it continues then final warning given before abandoning the match. Points given to other team.

I was thinking along similar lines about abandoning the match, but imagine the riot if that had happened at Ibrox on the 28th. I reckon the warning over the tannoy is good, and if it continues it is reviewed as a disciplinary matter the following week with the points deduction announced by the end of the week.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Hibs at Ibrox just a couple of weeks ago: many of us mentioned in the match thread the singing of the Billy Boys (supposedly banned) and thousands of orcs (not just a mindless minority) chanting about Fenians. Every time we play Rangers, home or away, we're subjected to their bile, but nothing is done. They've been done at least by UEFA, but it seems the Scottish authorities don't care. At least Celtc have knocked it on the head at Parkhead, but their away support are still it, too. The bigot brothers get a free pass on ignorance and bigotry.

[Andy74]

The main question is what the police response is expected to be if you are uncomfortable and complain. Perhaps he could save his guidance for his own staff?

[Hibernia&Alba]

I should also add that the most gratifying aspect is that Hibs fans don't respond in kind but refuse to be dragged into the sectarian gutter, yet it's very irritating that others get away with such behaviour again and again.

[Malthibby]

Senior Police officer has given this advice to combat Sectarian singing.

"If you are sitting at a game and you're uncomfortable because of something you see or something you hear, the reality is people around you will probably be uncomfortable as well.
"That's unacceptable. What I would urge you to do is go and report it to the steward or go and report it to a police officer."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-35317169

And get told to GTF.
He also insisted that the problem wasn't about the Old/Newco because they arrest loads of fans from other clubs. It was seriously depressing, because he acknowledged
nowt. Guy from the Arab Trust pointed out on radio the reality of going to Ibrox/Parkhead/Humpden & expecting police action, "If you don't like it piss off back to (insert non-Glesgie
town of your choice). Doesn't sound as if anything is going to change any time soon.

[Hibernia&Alba]

And get told to GTF.
He also insisted that the problem wasn't about the Old/Newco because they arrest loads of fans from other clubs. It was seriously depressing, because he acknowledged
nowt. Guy from the Arab Trust pointed out on radio the reality of going to Ibrox/Parkhead/Humpden & expecting police action, "If you don't like it piss off back to (insert non-Glesgie
town of your choice). Doesn't sound as if anything is going to change any time soon.

Yup, that basically seems to be the deal, and always has been.

[21.05.2016]

Senior Police officer has given this advice to combat Sectarian singing.

"If you are sitting at a game and you're uncomfortable because of something you see or something you hear, the reality is people around you will probably be uncomfortable as well.
"That's unacceptable. What I would urge you to do is go and report it to the steward or go and report it to a police officer."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-35317169

:rolleyes:

Aye thats all very well and good but if the police or steward is gonna turn round and basically tell you to F off or you'll be chucked out. Absolute joke, as usual some piss poor futile statement to try and look like they are actually bothered.

The OF sing their hate filled bile on a weekly basis. They are arrogant enough to know that they can get away with it. If it was "just a minority" as we so often told, it would be easy to irradiate but the reality is that IT IS NOT a minority and you cannot arrest/throw out around 50,000 people. The authorities need to start fining the club then if the problem persists dock them points. Simple. But as per usual nobody at the top has the balls to dare upset the old firm.

[jingler1954]

In this mobile media day the fans should film and sound record as much of the bile and police response and send it to the big wig to troll through that would probably take him all year. Another point the police have cameras scouring the fans at big games it would be interesting to see exactly what they pick up. If the sound was not good quality hire a lip reader to interpret what is being sung (is that a word).

[lapsedhibee]

If it was "just a minority" as we so often told, it would be easy to irradiate but the reality is that IT IS NOT a minority and you cannot arrest/throw out around 50,000 people.

Best suggestion on the thread so far.

[Malthibby]

Best suggestion on the thread so far.

And you could do 50,000 in a oner.

Boom. See the pretty cloud.

[Brizo]

Nothing will change while the Scottish media continue to be complicit by sitting on the fence on this matter. And that's not just the red top tabloids and commercial radio.

In the aftermath of the 28th Richard Gordon on the BBC described the Rangers bigoted anti Catholic songs as "unacceptable songs". His co-presenter Chick Young described them as "old fashioned songs" and went as far as to say they were acceptable once but are no longer acceptable. Maybe the same way slavery and homophobia were acceptable once upon a time, eh Chick ? He then went on to trot out the line beloved of all OF bigot apologists that other cities have their "divide". Gordon, who I once thought had some journalistic credibility, let this nonsense go without comment.

When the BBC are too frightened to call these songs what they are and the Scottish authorities are unwilling to take any tangible action on them, the "minority" will continue with their bile.

[macca70]

Caught a bit on the news the other night, some clown from the SFAor SPL stating that the clubs voted not to deal with sectarian singing etc in a certain way, therefore there are certain punishments that UEFA can use against rangers for sectarian singing that the SFA/SPL cannot!!


What a lot of absolute nonsense!!!! They are petrified that if they take action against the old firm then the fans stage a boycott or something similar it will be crippling to Scottish Football therefore they let them do what they want!!

As for this clown at the police, there's more evidence than could ever possibly be made available regarding sectarian singing at our last game against rangers, yet nothing is done and he expects us to take these instructions seriously!!!

It's like the FIFA situation, how far down the line does it go before something is done about it then when something is done, everyone is asking, why wasn't this action taken years ago!!

[lord bunberry]

He'd get lifted for complaining. :tee hee:
Which would be the best thing that could happen

[Fergos]

This is an opportunity to put the deputy Chief constable on the spot by raising the issues that occurred at Ibrox directly with him. An official letter to him from our fans rep stating all the points mentioned on here and the apparent lack of protection given by both the police and stewards and let's see if it is just more empty rhetoric.

Totally agree. An opportunity to take this issue up with him now he's made a statement must be seized. Not saying who it should be that takes this up but it would have to come from a visible public source or it would probably be ignored.

GGTTH

[whiskyhibby]

To be fair to the police and stewards, it's not realistic to lift 3000 plus supporters. This should be coming from the SPFL/SFA. The clubs should be docked points and thrown out of competitions and then we'll maybe see something happen. Clearly fines don't work.

correct but I have been to numerous games where the Police have been videoing the Hibs fans from pretty close quarters, I always thought that this was to identify trouble makers and take action some time after the game or on the way from the ground, why can't they do this with the Bigot brothers?

[Eyrie]

correct but I have been to numerous games where the Police have been videoing the Hibs fans from pretty close quarters, I always thought that this was to identify trouble makers and take action some time after the game or on the way from the ground, why can't they do this with the Bigot brothers?

Simple answer - they don't have enough cameras.

[truehibernian]

Maybe ACC Higgins should concentrate on his doorstep and the entrenched sectarianism that exists through by in households, families, schools and beyond ? Rather than use football as the excuse (which is merely a brief platform to vent ), get into schools and education - strange he mentioned pyro rather than bigotry ? Tells a story really - and a new Chief comes in and all of a sudden a House apologist wants press - mmmmmm okay then !!!!

[Purple & Green]

The high profile advice might have been better offered before our last visit of the season to the bigot dome rather than after it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dashing Bob S]

I'm sure there are some high level cops at Police Scotland who believe in the alternative universe where this nonsense is possible. But they might want to attend games at Ibrox with their junior colleagues, who if not actively sponsoring the bigots in the stands, are at least going out of their way to quell any resistance to the constant physical and verbal abuse they issue.

[Greenblood70]

Fan Advice - Sectarian Policing

Any chance the hunnish officers on duty at Ibrox masquerading as upholders of law and order can drag themselves kicking and screaming into the 21st century and forget their bigotted allegiances to apply the laws of the land properly??

Thought not.

[truehibernian]

Hibs could of course invite ACC Higgins to a fans forum to discuss his concerns ? Quite sure it would be more than 'pyro' we would feed back to him - wonder if he'd lower himself to come through to Edinburgh ?

[Carheenlea]

There will be no progress until clubs agree to adopt Strict Liability.

[truehibernian]

There will be no progress until clubs agree to adopt Strict Liability.

Or Police Glasgow deal with it in their own city ?

[truehibernian]

The high profile advice might have been better offered before our last visit of the season to the bigot dome rather than after it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ask Mr Higgins how many times he's been in Edinburgh for major events ?

Mind, you'll not get a straight or honest answer from them !

[SanFranHibs]

Senior Police officer has given this advice to combat Sectarian singing.

"If you are sitting at a game and you're uncomfortable because of something you see or something you hear, the reality is people around you will probably be uncomfortable as well.
"That's unacceptable. What I would urge you to do is go and report it to the steward or go and report it to a police officer."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-35317169

The police at Ibrox sometimes give good 'advice'. Well, they will help the locals out if they have forgotten the words.

[Moulin Yarns]

Nothing will change while the Scottish media continue to be complicit by sitting on the fence on this matter. And that's not just the red top tabloids and commercial radio.

In the aftermath of the 28th Richard Gordon on the BBC described the Rangers bigoted anti Catholic songs as "unacceptable songs". His co-presenter Chick Young described them as "old fashioned songs" and went as far as to say they were acceptable once but are no longer acceptable. Maybe the same way slavery and homophobia were acceptable once upon a time, eh Chick ? He then went on to trot out the line beloved of all OF bigot apologists that other cities have their "divide". Gordon, who I once thought had some journalistic credibility, let this nonsense go without comment.

When the BBC are too frightened to call these songs what they are and the Scottish authorities are unwilling to take any tangible action on them, the "minority" will continue with their bile.


Tom English has a good bit at the bottom of this page

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/scotland/35327998

[Bill Milne]

Since I was a nipper, growing up in Niddrie, I have been painfully aware that the cops will do their jobs based on the level of influence of the people being complained about. If you are from a perceived level above the complainant, and this applies to the Orcs, then the polis are not going to do anything at all. In fact, as we all know from experience, they will turn the complaint round and persecute the complainant. I imagine Higgins is well aware of this, at Ibrox and many other spheres of polis life, and his comments are only intended to boost his standing with the MSM and his superiors.

[s.a.m]

Since I was a nipper, growing up in Niddrie, I have been painfully aware that the cops will do their jobs based on the level of influence of the people being complained about. If you are from a perceived level above the complainant, and this applies to the Orcs, then the polis are not going to to anything at all. In fact, as we all know from experience, they will turn the complaint round and persecute the complainant. I imagine Higgins is well aware of this, at Ibrox and many other spheres of polis life, and his comments are only intended to boost his standing with the MSM and his superiors.

There seems to be a general 'path of least resistance' approach to policing football: wee clubs' supports have people lifted for minor nuisance, while serious aggression, or illegal chanting / singing from the big teams' fans is ignored. There were figures released earlier this year (can't remember if it was from the football authorities or the polis), which I think put us at, our near, the top of arrests for sectarian offences. That's because our brain-dead morons are getting lifted, because they're easily targeted, while thousands of Rangers / Celtic brain dead morons are ignored. If there was genuine will to do anything about it, action could (at the very least) be taken afterwards.
If they were really serious about bringing an end to it, and sectarian singing is taking place, and the crowd have refused a request by the match controller to stop, the referee could be given the power to abandon the match, and award the points to the other side.

[Lucius Apuleius]

Maybe drastic but the only way I see for anything to change (apart from the police attitude) is for someone to get arrested at Ipox, go to court, tell the truth as to why they were arrested, get fined, then go to the papers regarding the police.

[emerald green]

Senior Police officer has given this advice to combat Sectarian singing.

"If you are sitting at a game and you're uncomfortable because of something you see or something you hear, the reality is people around you will probably be uncomfortable as well.
"That's unacceptable. What I would urge you to do is go and report it to the steward or go and report it to a police officer."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-35317169

Aye OK then officer. :rolleyes:

Are all the stewards and police officers deaf, and blind too? Can't they hear, or see, thousands of them belting it out at Ibrox?

[proud_and_green]

Well said Tom English on the BBC website:


Uncomfortable buck passing

When Bernard Higgins, assistant chief constable of Police Scotland, urged football fans in this country to report anything that makes them feel "uncomfortable" at matches it might have taken about a minute - if that - for people to start taking him up on the offer.

Had he given details of a hotline then the thing would have been jammed from now until eternity with justified complaints (some against the police force itself, no doubt) and others of a somewhat less serious nature. "Our back four make me very uncomfortable, sort it!"

Higgins made the point, as many have done before him, that he'd like to see football fans reporting unsavoury behaviour in real-time. If they see somebody with flares, attract the attention of a steward or the police. If they hear sectarian singing, do the same.

There is more than an element of "Do as we say, not as we do" about this. Did it really require fan intervention to identify the buffoons in the Celtic support who set off smoke bombs at Stranraer last weekend? No.

Did it really require a disgusted Celtic fan to point out the morons who sang about the IRA in the same match? No, it didn't. If the stewards were paying attention they would have seen and heard it for themselves and would have done what the assistant chief constable is now asking football fans to do.

Namely, telling the miscreants to behave - or else.

Similarly at Ibrox, where many, many thousands sang The Billy Boys during Rangers post-Christmas game against Hibs at Ibrox. Are the police seriously saying that they needed embarrassed Rangers fans to tell them what was going on?

There is an element of buck-passing. Traditionally, the Scottish FA and the SPFL (and before them, the SPL) have done absolutely nothing about sectarian chanting. No fines, no suspensions, no point deductions, despite the SFA saying, years back, that they wanted a policy of heavy punishment for repeat offenders.

Stewards and police routinely stand by and allow "uncomfortable" behaviour to unfold, reluctant, understandably, to go in amongst the fans to stop it. The assistant police constable is now asking the fans to do, more or less, the job that others are there to do.

Any supporter would be brave - and would be commended - if they reported unruly behaviour on the spot, but it's not their responsibility. That lies with the people running the game, not those paying to go and watch it.

[Carheenlea]

Well said Tom English on the BBC website:


Uncomfortable buck passing

When Bernard Higgins, assistant chief constable of Police Scotland, urged football fans in this country to report anything that makes them feel "uncomfortable" at matches it might have taken about a minute - if that - for people to start taking him up on the offer.

Had he given details of a hotline then the thing would have been jammed from now until eternity with justified complaints (some against the police force itself, no doubt) and others of a somewhat less serious nature. "Our back four make me very uncomfortable, sort it!"

Higgins made the point, as many have done before him, that he'd like to see football fans reporting unsavoury behaviour in real-time. If they see somebody with flares, attract the attention of a steward or the police. If they hear sectarian singing, do the same.

There is more than an element of "Do as we say, not as we do" about this. Did it really require fan intervention to identify the buffoons in the Celtic support who set off smoke bombs at Stranraer last weekend? No.

Did it really require a disgusted Celtic fan to point out the morons who sang about the IRA in the same match? No, it didn't. If the stewards were paying attention they would have seen and heard it for themselves and would have done what the assistant chief constable is now asking football fans to do.

Namely, telling the miscreants to behave - or else.

Similarly at Ibrox, where many, many thousands sang The Billy Boys during Rangers post-Christmas game against Hibs at Ibrox. Are the police seriously saying that they needed embarrassed Rangers fans to tell them what was going on?

There is an element of buck-passing. Traditionally, the Scottish FA and the SPFL (and before them, the SPL) have done absolutely nothing about sectarian chanting. No fines, no suspensions, no point deductions, despite the SFA saying, years back, that they wanted a policy of heavy punishment for repeat offenders.

Stewards and police routinely stand by and allow "uncomfortable" behaviour to unfold, reluctant, understandably, to go in amongst the fans to stop it. The assistant police constable is now asking the fans to do, more or less, the job that others are there to do.

Any supporter would be brave - and would be commended - if they reported unruly behaviour on the spot, but it's not their responsibility. That lies with the people running the game, not those paying to go and watch it.

Tom English writes and speaks very well on this subject :agree:

[Pedantic_Hibee]

If it's an individual, eject him and ban for life.
If it's a minority/majority, make their next home game a closed doors affair.
If it happens again the opponents get the three points and match abandoned.

If you want to get tough on them, be tough.

Everything else has been tried and patently doesn't work.

[Bostonhibby]

Well said Tom English on the BBC website:


Uncomfortable buck passing

When Bernard Higgins, assistant chief constable of Police Scotland, urged football fans in this country to report anything that makes them feel "uncomfortable" at matches it might have taken about a minute - if that - for people to start taking him up on the offer.

Had he given details of a hotline then the thing would have been jammed from now until eternity with justified complaints (some against the police force itself, no doubt) and others of a somewhat less serious nature. "Our back four make me very uncomfortable, sort it!"

Higgins made the point, as many have done before him, that he'd like to see football fans reporting unsavoury behaviour in real-time. If they see somebody with flares, attract the attention of a steward or the police. If they hear sectarian singing, do the same.

There is more than an element of "Do as we say, not as we do" about this. Did it really require fan intervention to identify the buffoons in the Celtic support who set off smoke bombs at Stranraer last weekend? No.

Did it really require a disgusted Celtic fan to point out the morons who sang about the IRA in the same match? No, it didn't. If the stewards were paying attention they would have seen and heard it for themselves and would have done what the assistant chief constable is now asking football fans to do.

Namely, telling the miscreants to behave - or else.

Similarly at Ibrox, where many, many thousands sang The Billy Boys during Rangers post-Christmas game against Hibs at Ibrox. Are the police seriously saying that they needed embarrassed Rangers fans to tell them what was going on?

There is an element of buck-passing. Traditionally, the Scottish FA and the SPFL (and before them, the SPL) have done absolutely nothing about sectarian chanting. No fines, no suspensions, no point deductions, despite the SFA saying, years back, that they wanted a policy of heavy punishment for repeat offenders.

Stewards and police routinely stand by and allow "uncomfortable" behaviour to unfold, reluctant, understandably, to go in amongst the fans to stop it. The assistant police constable is now asking the fans to do, more or less, the job that others are there to do.

Any supporter would be brave - and would be commended - if they reported unruly behaviour on the spot, but it's not their responsibility. That lies with the people running the game, not those paying to go and watch it.
I thought it was a great article, it led me to think that all the police need to do is a bit of police work.

There are very few crimes where they are absolutely swamped in evidence that even the most inept officer could see that a crime which is covered by legislation is happening in their sight and earshot.

I think Mr Higgins should just get these public servants, of which he is one, to carry out the will of parliament and the public and deal with the offences they are paid to deal with.

He is entitled to his views about how his job might be done by others but having those views doesn't mean it's okay not to do your job meantime. Can you imagine other public servants like nurses or soldiers suggesting that in the case of certain illnesses or conflicts they will leave it to the public to sort out.

Nae wonder there's a bit less respect for police when thinking like this is applied to a national shame.

[Moulin Yarns]

Scottish football clubs 'unanimously against the introduction of strict liability rules'

I think would be useful if the board of Hibernian would come out and tell the fans why they don't want strict liability and what alternatives they would accept

More on the story http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/35349978

Alloa Athletic chairman Mike Mulraney says Scottish clubs are unanimously against the introduction of strict liability rules.

Recent cases of sectarian chanting and the use of smoke bombs and flares have prompted a discussion within the Scottish Professional Football League.

All 42 SPFL clubs met at Hampden on Tuesday.
SPFL board member Mulraney feels clubs should not be punished if they do all they can to prevent unruly behaviour.



However, Kilmarnock director Michael Johnson believes clubs should be docked league points if their fans cannot behave.

Strict liability, where clubs can be punished for the conduct of its fans regardless of whether the club itself is to blame, is used by Uefa for European competitions.



Not Unanimous at all then.

[Pete]

Scottish football clubs 'unanimously against the introduction of strict liability rules'

I think would be useful if the board of Hibernian would come out and tell the fans why they don't want strict liability and what alternatives they would accept

More on the story http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/35349978

Alloa Athletic chairman Mike Mulraney says Scottish clubs are unanimously against the introduction of strict liability rules.

Recent cases of sectarian chanting and the use of smoke bombs and flares have prompted a discussion within the Scottish Professional Football League.

All 42 SPFL clubs met at Hampden on Tuesday.
SPFL board member Mulraney feels clubs should not be punished if they do all they can to prevent unruly behaviour.



However, Kilmarnock director Michael Johnson believes clubs should be docked league points if their fans cannot behave.

Strict liability, where clubs can be punished for the conduct of its fans regardless of whether the club itself is to blame, is used by Uefa for European competitions.



Not Unanimous at all then.

What the **** is wrong with this country and it's game? Utterly pathetic.

I firmly include our own club when I say that if we don't want strict liability.

[Iggy Pope]

Well said Tom English on the BBC website:


Uncomfortable buck passing

When Bernard Higgins, assistant chief constable of Police Scotland, urged football fans in this country to report anything that makes them feel "uncomfortable" at matches it might have taken about a minute - if that - for people to start taking him up on the offer.

Had he given details of a hotline then the thing would have been jammed from now until eternity with justified complaints (some against the police force itself, no doubt) and others of a somewhat less serious nature. "Our back four make me very uncomfortable, sort it!"

Higgins made the point, as many have done before him, that he'd like to see football fans reporting unsavoury behaviour in real-time. If they see somebody with flares, attract the attention of a steward or the police. If they hear sectarian singing, do the same.

There is more than an element of "Do as we say, not as we do" about this. Did it really require fan intervention to identify the buffoons in the Celtic support who set off smoke bombs at Stranraer last weekend? No.

Did it really require a disgusted Celtic fan to point out the morons who sang about the IRA in the same match? No, it didn't. If the stewards were paying attention they would have seen and heard it for themselves and would have done what the assistant chief constable is now asking football fans to do.

Namely, telling the miscreants to behave - or else.

Similarly at Ibrox, where many, many thousands sang The Billy Boys during Rangers post-Christmas game against Hibs at Ibrox. Are the police seriously saying that they needed embarrassed Rangers fans to tell them what was going on?

There is an element of buck-passing. Traditionally, the Scottish FA and the SPFL (and before them, the SPL) have done absolutely nothing about sectarian chanting. No fines, no suspensions, no point deductions, despite the SFA saying, years back, that they wanted a policy of heavy punishment for repeat offenders.

Stewards and police routinely stand by and allow "uncomfortable" behaviour to unfold, reluctant, understandably, to go in amongst the fans to stop it. The assistant police constable is now asking the fans to do, more or less, the job that others are there to do.

Any supporter would be brave - and would be commended - if they reported unruly behaviour on the spot, but it's not their responsibility. That lies with the people running the game, not those paying to go and watch it.

Plenty. PLENTY of Hibbies complained to Police on the 28th. I asked one officer why not even a token arrest when the hate was being spat out by ******s (yes, ******s) 5 yards away from him. Not asking for 10,000 arrests. Just one or two of the pubes opposite who would run a mile anyway if the cordon came down. Response? "Ye telling me it's any diffrint at Easter Road??". Similar response from the fat died blonde ear-ringed Hun-in a- yellah- jacket steward who reckoned that Hibs had threw the stuff up there for them to throw back down.....Just lift 5 or 6 of them and make a big deal PC Murdoch you big flat footed moron. If you do nothing what will change? I go to my work next day wanting to make the first Hun I see feel like the worthless piece of **** I feel he is. How is that healthy?

[silverhibee]

Scottish football clubs 'unanimously against the introduction of strict liability rules'

I think would be useful if the board of Hibernian would come out and tell the fans why they don't want strict liability and what alternatives they would accept

More on the story http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/35349978

Alloa Athletic chairman Mike Mulraney says Scottish clubs are unanimously against the introduction of strict liability rules.

Recent cases of sectarian chanting and the use of smoke bombs and flares have prompted a discussion within the Scottish Professional Football League.

All 42 SPFL clubs met at Hampden on Tuesday.
SPFL board member Mulraney feels clubs should not be punished if they do all they can to prevent unruly behaviour.



However, Kilmarnock director Michael Johnson believes clubs should be docked league points if their fans cannot behave.

Strict liability, where clubs can be punished for the conduct of its fans regardless of whether the club itself is to blame, is used by Uefa for European competitions.



Not Unanimous at all then.


Staggering, this just gives the go ahead to the 2 clubs from the West to continue there sectarian bile every week now, I suppose no change as they seem to be untouchable in Scottish football, until our authorities do something about this then it will only get worse, which it is, close grounds, deduct points until they get the message.

Why do people who are in authority in Scotland not want to do anything about this, football clubs of Scotland, Scottish Government, Scottish Police & SPFL/SFA, why are they so feared to eradicate it, and a good start would be getting Celtc & the new club to get things sorted with there support and if they can't, then deduct them points, if this was happening in England (sectarian singing) I bet the FA would act and deduct points from clubs in a flash to solve the problem in football stadiums.

Scotland's Shame is here to stay.

[TRC]

Every time someone signs one doesn't matter if it's one person or 50000 dock 3 points they'll soon stop. The cowardly gfa will do **** all as per

[lapsedhibee]

Response? "Ye telling me it's any diffrint at Easter Road??".
The whataboutery response seems so tiresomely ingrained in the the Huns. :boo hoo:

[Gatecrasher]

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/competitions/premiership/spfl-wants-facial-recognition-software-to-ease-crowd-trouble-1-4005477?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=dlvr.it

[Moulin Yarns]

Am I right that clubs are responsible for any damage incurred by their fans? If so then it must be possible to extend that responsibility to the behaviour. Surely.

[Deansy]

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/competitions/premiership/spfl-wants-facial-recognition-software-to-ease-crowd-trouble-1-4005477?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=dlvr.it

'Meetings have already taken place between representatives of the SPFL and the Scottish Government over a request for financial help to introduce facial recognition technology, costing up to £4m, which will be used to identify offenders'


The government could save £4m by simply sending a delegate to sit amongst the police/security people at 'Camp Greyskull/Ibrokes' so he/she would realise that the 'facial recognition technology' would just identify the entire ground with the exception of the 'Visiting Fans' area !!.

If the 'facial recognition technology' is really good, the first photos it will take are of Regan, Doncaster .............

[green day]

Staggering, this just gives the go ahead to the 2 clubs from the West to continue there sectarian bile every week now, I suppose no change as they seem to be untouchable in Scottish football, until our authorities do something about this then it will only get worse, which it is, close grounds, deduct points until they get the message.

Why do people who are in authority in Scotland not want to do anything about this, football clubs of Scotland, Scottish Government, Scottish Police & SPFL/SFA, why are they so feared to eradicate it, and a good start would be getting Celtc & the new club to get things sorted with there support and if they can't, then deduct them points, if this was happening in England (sectarian singing) I bet the FA would act and deduct points from clubs in a flash to solve the problem in football stadiums.

Scotland's Shame is here to stay.

Agreed - the bbc reporter asked Mulraney straight out if clubs should be responsible for sectarian singing - he paused, mumbled a bit then said "thats such a closed question, you need to be asking if clubs should be responsible for fan behaviour"

I have taken a few liberties with the exact words - but if he was a Hun board member his response would have been identical.

For me, thats the problem in Scottish Football - there are far too many in charge of "diddy" clubs who are secretly (or not so secretly) Hun or Tic supporters.

As you say, Scotlands Shame

[WoreTheGreen]

Alloa chairman talking about "facial reconition cameras he is probably related to his fan base. TOOL

[brog]

Just announced on BBC, SPFL to investigate incidents at Rangers-Hibs & Yams-Dundee Utd games. Nice double whammy & maybe our club has been working behind the scenes to make this happen.

[superfurryhibby]

Maybe we should stop calling the sectarianism "Scotland's shame".

It's not my shame and I can't helping it would be better to identify and marginalise the perps by calling it what it is. Sectarianism is a way of life in much of Scotland? Not from my experience.

It's a tradition which is largely found in the West and perhaps in the post industrial hinterlands of the central beltane.

As an Edinburgh man, I struggle to recognise that Orange Walks etc are a visible part of life in my city (albeit that the exhibitionists do make a display at some point), I can speak to my, admittedly mature and mostly sensible Jamboid pals and supporters of other clubs without resorting to religious based "banter". Having worked in Glasgow these past few years I can't say the same.

In sport, it is largely "their" issue. Ah Ken there are flute playing Hearts fans and that other teams have/ have had issue with "traditional songs", including Hibs. However, this represents a piss in the ocean of filth that the former Old Firm benefit from.

Identifying and naming the problem makes it more difficult for the collusion to continue.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Wonder whether it is appropriate for either SKY or the BBC to make any comments about what is being broadcasted through their networks? It's an odd contrast when you hear slavering apologies if someone says sh*t on a chat show but equally nothing at the end of 90 minutes of consistent and pointed bigotry and racism.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Good post at 0706PM, Its not my shame either. My experiences very much mirror those of the poster, including the experiences whilst working in Glasgow which I had the misfortune to do for 9 months back in the mid 90s.

[degenerated]

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/competitions/premiership/spfl-wants-facial-recognition-software-to-ease-crowd-trouble-1-4005477?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=dlvr.it
Might be a good thing [emoji1]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160120/2e58aa3d44d9951f595fbc77d2d12e9f.jpg

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

[Eyrie]

Wonder whether it is appropriate for either SKY or the BBC to make any comments about what is being broadcasted through their networks? It's an odd contrast when you hear slavering apologies if someone says sh*t on a chat show but equally nothing at the end of 90 minutes of consistent and pointed bigotry and racism.

When watching rugby the commentator will apologise when the referee's microphone has picked up a naughty word which I'd never even noticed. Must be because someone yelling the f word in frustration is more offensive than forty thousand delighting in being up to their knees in blood from religious slaughter.