League Reorganisation

[Moulin Yarns]

BBC Scotland Live

Football league reorganisation could soon be back on the agenda for clubsPosted at 09:33
Fallkirk are keen to start a dialogue about changing the present structure.
Bairns chairman Doug Henderson has raised restructuring as an item for discussion at a meeting of Scottish Professional Football League clubs. A three-year moratorium not to re-visit the issue ends this summer.




"Change can be achieved as quickly as people want to achieve it," Henderson said ahead of Tuesday's summit. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/35296541)

[Geo_1875]

When is the first meeting at which reorganisation can be on the agenda?

[J-C]

BBC Scotland Live

Football league reorganisation could soon be back on the agenda for clubsPosted at 09:33
Fallkirk are keen to start a dialogue about changing the present structure.
Bairns chairman Doug Henderson has raised restructuring as an item for discussion at a meeting of Scottish Professional Football League clubs. A three-year moratorium not to re-visit the issue ends this summer.




"Change can be achieved as quickly as people want to achieve it," Henderson said ahead of Tuesday's summit. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/35296541)


I think Falkirk would be a welcome addition to a new league, 14 team league has been spoken of but a 16 team league would be better, Falkirk, Hibs, Rangers and Raith(an other ) would only make a new SPFL more entertaining.

[Nutmegged]

There'll be no reorganisation of the Leagues for at least another two years IMO...the SPFL will believe they've rode the waves, now with Sevco likely to go up this year in some capacity they'll prefer to see how it goes next year with them in the top flight.

If the League is a forgone conclusion next Season and Deidco don't look like seriously challenging for it half way through the following year (17-18) then I can see them changing the format to allow them a better opportunity of challenging.

[Diclonius]

Delia says 12 teams is just fine.

[Lancs Harp]

Lets just let the Ugly Sisters form the Premier Premier league with just the two of them in it.

Then form a new 16 team Scottish Premier league.

[greenpaper55]

Delia says 12 teams is just fine.

All the more reason to change it then !, has he ever paid to get into a game here ?. The fans are the only ones who have a right to voice their opinion so he should be ignored. Another reason he could be saying this is it is a fact that it's more difficult for the OF to win the league the larger the size.

[PISTOL1875]

A 16 team top league is the best thing...

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Strangely enough although the discussion involves 42 clubs, only 2 are important enough to have their views aired.

[Thecat23]

Strangely enough although the discussion involves 42 clubs, only 2 are important enough to have their views aired.

Sadly that's true.

[Eyrie]

Strangely enough although the discussion involves 42 clubs, only 2 are important enough to have their views aired.

Because the other clubs keep forgetting that without them, Celtc and Sevco have no-one to play. The normal clubs need to unite to do the right thing and make Celtc and Sevco take part on fair terms.

[Joe6-2]

Delia says 12 teams is just fine.

As stated on Anthony Stokes thread, Delia is a grade A roaster!

[Ozyhibby]

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/aberdeen/259404-how-the-premiership-would-have-shaped-up-if-12-12-18-had-been-voted-through/

We would have been relegated in this suggestion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[weecounty hibby]

Delia says 12 teams is just fine.
He is a fud. Been in the country for about 18 months, worst celtic team in years, Celtic losing cash, board desperate for huns to be back in top league. Aye right then we should really listen to what he says

[Waxy]

I like the end of season playoffs (Though it'll be nice when we're finally not involved). A bigger league maybe but keep the same playoffs.

[NAE NOOKIE]

There'll be no reorganisation of the Leagues for at least another two years IMO...the SPFL will believe they've rode the waves, now with Sevco likely to go up this year in some capacity they'll prefer to see how it goes next year with them in the top flight.

If the League is a forgone conclusion next Season and Deidco don't look like seriously challenging for it half way through the following year (17-18) then I can see them changing the format to allow them a better opportunity of challenging.

You could be right, but I cant help thinking there's been too much noise coming out of Hampden and elsewhere recently for there not to be something afoot in the summer, rather than just folk blowing smoke over hypotheticals.

In my opinion the one thing that will not happen is the SPFL saying at the very start of any season that at the end of the season there will be no relegation and that as many as 4 clubs will be promoted from the championship. To do so would be a recipe for financial disaster, why would the sponsors and TV companies want to cover leagues where the prospect of failure has been all but eliminated and hundreds of games rendered meaningless, and why would any but the most die hard fans turn of to watch a bunch of what would be in effect friendlies?

Look at the leagues as I type:

Premiership .......... Half the clubs are all but out of the running for the Europa league places .... If the fans of the rest already knew they couldn't be relegated where's the drama or excitement in the rest of their league programme.

Championship ...... The top 3 places are already sewn up, with 3 teams in contention for 4th place .... that would leave 4 clubs with nothing to play for.

League 1 ..... you would need 6 teams from this 10 team league to make up what would have to be at least a 12 team Championship following reconstruction ..... all 10 if you want a 16 team league, rendering the whole season practically meaningless.

To get consensus for reconstruction all clubs will need to be sure they wouldn't lose out. In the premiership clubs like Killie, Motherwell, Ross County and now Dundee Utd have and are flirting with relegation ..... can you imagine them voting for a reconstruction plan that keeps relegation, with the prospect that they could end up in a league with next to none of the top 16 clubs in the country to attract TV cameras or draw fans through the gates? ....... no chance.

All that means is that any reconstruction will be announced at the end of one season to start at the beginning of the next, and will certainly not involve anybody getting relegated. That being the case there is no need to wait until season 17/18 or any time after for that matter.

[Nutmegged]

I genuinely think the only reason the ideas have been aired more frequently as of late as its now the end of the 3 year stability period when no talks were to be discussed.

I think we'll go up this Season, I also think Deidco will go up, if that is the case then they'll have four Capital Derbies and four Old Firm Derbies, along with us vs Abeedeen/Celtic/Sevco and der Hun vs Aberdeen/us/Hearts

The potential for bigger fixtures almost weekly will be to much of a pull, if it doesn't pan out that way and Celtic run away from Sevconians then they may then change it.

The Rangers want it changed as like ourselves, Hearts and Aberdeen they know the best way to win the Title will be playing against the best team as little as possible.

[Greenworld]

Fans want it changed because were bored silly with playing the same teams ...could be 6 times if cups are involved it's done needs changed...

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

[rabcp1]

You could be right, but I cant help thinking there's been too much noise coming out of Hampden and elsewhere recently for there not to be something afoot in the summer, rather than just folk blowing smoke over hypotheticals.

In my opinion the one thing that will not happen is the SPFL saying at the very start of any season that at the end of the season there will be no relegation and that as many as 4 clubs will be promoted from the championship. To do so would be a recipe for financial disaster, why would the sponsors and TV companies want to cover leagues where the prospect of failure has been all but eliminated and hundreds of games rendered meaningless, and why would any but the most die hard fans turn of to watch a bunch of what would be in effect friendlies?

Unless the reconstruction was done in stages, say it was announced before the start off next season that 1 team would be relegated and 3 promoted to a 14 team league then the same the next year taking it to a 16 team league. Everyone knows what happens in advance without any 'meaningless' season's?

[hhibs]

I genuinely think the only reason the ideas have been aired more frequently as of late as its now the end of the 3 year stability period when no talks were to be discussed.

I think we'll go up this Season, I also think Deidco will go up, if that is the case then they'll have four Capital Derbies and four Old Firm Derbies, along with us vs Abeedeen/Celtic/Sevco and der Hun vs Aberdeen/us/Hearts

The potential for bigger fixtures almost weekly will be to much of a pull, if it doesn't pan out that way and Celtic run away from Sevconians then they may then change it.

The Rangers want it changed as like ourselves, Hearts and Aberdeen they know the best way to win the Title will be playing against the best team as little as possible.

OR And I admit it is extremely unlikely,Falkirk go up as champions,Hibs and the angers stay down,4th team in championship win play off,Dundee Utd go down along with Dundee.

So ,even worse financially for the SPFL than now, on top of everything else there would be no Dundee derby there would be less big games in the top division.............................naw,could not happen,could it ?

[Nutmegged]

I'll be honest, while it "could" happen I find it extremely unlikely that Raith Rovers/Morton/QotS could finish 4th, beat us, then beat Rangers and then go on to beat Dundee (who I don't think will finish near the 2nd bottom)

[ancient hibee]

If we go to a bigger league Scottish football will go down the drain.Anyone who watched it regularly in the bigger league days knows that there could be months of meaningless football where teams could neither be relegated nor win the league.I can't believe that anyone would want to pay to watch Hibs v QOS instead of Hibs v Celtic,Rangers,Hearts or Aberdeen.

[Keith_M]

Both Celtc and Aberdeen are against increasing the number of top league teams.

Is that enough for a veto or has the rule changed? (I thought the 11-1 rule was gone but it was mentioned today in The Herald)

[SausageSurprise]

If we go to a bigger league Scottish football will go down the drain.Anyone who watched it regularly in the bigger league days knows that there could be months of meaningless football where teams could neither be relegated nor win the league.I can't believe that anyone would want to pay to watch Hibs v QOS instead of Hibs v Celtic,Rangers,Hearts or Aberdeen.

I pay to watch Hibernian

[ancient hibee]

I pay to watch Hibernian


You're like me -one of a diminishing number.

[Nutmegged]

If we go to a bigger league Scottish football will go down the drain.Anyone who watched it regularly in the bigger league days knows that there could be months of meaningless football where teams could neither be relegated nor win the league.I can't believe that anyone would want to pay to watch Hibs v QOS instead of Hibs v Celtic,Rangers,Hearts or Aberdeen.

I really don't think that would happen in a Sixteen team League, with only 30 fixtures it would be more likely teams in the League would be closer together but I'd also think Europa League and Relegation Play-Off's would be included in any potential new set up to keep interest high in the middle of the Division.

[ancient hibee]

I really don't think that would happen in a Sixteen team League, with only 30 fixtures it would be more likely teams in the League would be closer together but I'd also think Europa League and Relegation Play-Off's would be included in any potential new set up to keep interest high in the middle of the Division.

When the leagues were bigger a very common occurrence was that two teams became detached quite early-this could make 8/10 teams safe and with the best will in the world nothing to play for and crowds just disappeared.

[Purple & Green]

When the leagues were bigger a very common occurrence was that two teams became detached quite early-this could make 8/10 teams safe and with the best will in the world nothing to play for and crowds just disappeared.

It was 40 years ago and so much has changed; nobody really knows how a bigger league would pan out.

I'm not sure 16 would make the league competitive per se, more competitive sure, but it might not make much of a difference.

Another problem - a bigger problem - is imho, of the current 42 spfl teams, is around 20 of them have no ambition to be in the top league. I don't think that was true 40 years ago, but we probably need to address that first. That probably means no more than 2 national leagues, that's more important than the sizes.

[yekimevol]

Im all for a 16 team league but I understand why some teams are against it as there's fewer games in the season which means less money (Only 30 games a season). I would say the much maligned split would actually save it as it adds the needed games.

16 team league + spilt gives us 37 games which solves the money problem and to keep it interesting make it 3 teams relegated, 2 automatic + 1 play off and for the top half give it every European place to keep those teams fighting so 1 champions league and 3 europa's.

Thats a more interesting league to me.

[portycabbage]

You could be right, but I cant help thinking there's been too much noise coming out of Hampden and elsewhere recently for there not to be something afoot in the summer, rather than just folk blowing smoke over hypotheticals.

In my opinion the one thing that will not happen is the SPFL saying at the very start of any season that at the end of the season there will be no relegation and that as many as 4 clubs will be promoted from the championship. To do so would be a recipe for financial disaster, why would the sponsors and TV companies want to cover leagues where the prospect of failure has been all but eliminated and hundreds of games rendered meaningless, and why would any but the most die hard fans turn of to watch a bunch of what would be in effect friendlies?

Look at the leagues as I type:

Premiership .......... Half the clubs are all but out of the running for the Europa league places .... If the fans of the rest already knew they couldn't be relegated where's the drama or excitement in the rest of their league programme.

Championship ...... The top 3 places are already sewn up, with 3 teams in contention for 4th place .... that would leave 4 clubs with nothing to play for.

League 1 ..... you would need 6 teams from this 10 team league to make up what would have to be at least a 12 team Championship following reconstruction ..... all 10 if you want a 16 team league, rendering the whole season practically meaningless.

To get consensus for reconstruction all clubs will need to be sure they wouldn't lose out. In the premiership clubs like Killie, Motherwell, Ross County and now Dundee Utd have and are flirting with relegation ..... can you imagine them voting for a reconstruction plan that keeps relegation, with the prospect that they could end up in a league with next to none of the top 16 clubs in the country to attract TV cameras or draw fans through the gates? ....... no chance.

All that means is that any reconstruction will be announced at the end of one season to start at the beginning of the next, and will certainly not involve anybody getting relegated. That being the case there is no need to wait until season 17/18 or any time after for that matter.

Maybe I've misunderstood, but would there be a difference between announcing change at the end of the season, rather than the start of the following season (as we'd still be talking about the same close-season)? If it was announced mid-season (eg now, and have a bigger league for 2016-17), that would obviously be wrong, as you would be changing the rules halfway through the competition. I'm guessing that's what you're meaning in the first bit in bold, as you're looking at the current league standings and what it would mean to have, for example, no relegation this season. As long as it's clear well before the season begins what teams are playing for, then fine. But that IMO would mean deciding now what promotion and relegation will happen at the end of next season.

I think you could still have relegation though, as you could have, for example, play-offs between the bottom team in the top league and 5th and 6th in the Championship (for a 16 team top-flight). With any expansion you'd get "meaningless games", but you can get that in any league, depending on how close teams are to each other.

I'm not sure clubs like Dundee Utd would be put off by expansion proposals that still involve relegation, as they'd be choosing between that and the current set-up, which involves the same risks. And although they'd have less big games, they'd also have more chance of promotion at the first attempt if the better teams had gone up, and there was perhaps an extra promotion place (eg 2 teams relegated and 3rd bottom in the play-offs out of the top 16).

[lord bunberry]

Maybe I've misunderstood, but would there be a difference between announcing change at the end of the season, rather than the start of the following season (as we'd still be talking about the same close-season)? If it was announced mid-season (eg now, and have a bigger league for 2016-17), that would obviously be wrong, as you would be changing the rules halfway through the competition. I'm guessing that's what you're meaning in the first bit in bold, as you're looking at the current league standings and what it would mean to have, for example, no relegation this season. As long as it's clear well before the season begins what teams are playing for, then fine. But that IMO would mean deciding now what promotion and relegation will happen at the end of next season.

I think you could still have relegation though, as you could have, for example, play-offs between the bottom team in the top league and 5th and 6th in the Championship (for a 16 team top-flight). With any expansion you'd get "meaningless games", but you can get that in any league, depending on how close teams are to each other.

I'm not sure clubs like Dundee Utd would be put off by expansion proposals that still involve relegation, as they'd be choosing between that and the current set-up, which involves the same risks. And although they'd have less big games, they'd also have more chance of promotion at the first attempt if the better teams had gone up, and there was perhaps an extra promotion place (eg 2 teams relegated and 3rd bottom in the play-offs out of the top 16).
League reconstruction has happened in the middle of the season before. Not long after the mercer attempted takeover it happened.

[Dashing Bob S]

If you want to reconstruct don't do all this shabby, back of a fag packet, mid season nonsense. Falkirk, The Rangers, SFA and anybody else getting into this are shabby cheats.

Lets get on with playing competitions. They have little enough credibility without being further undermined by shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic, to make money for greedy shabby clubs who've messed themselves up.

[Purple & Green]

Of course, the radical option would be to have American style end of season play offs between the top 8/6/4 - home advantage for the higher placed teams until a cup final at a neutral venue. That would keep people interested longer....

[Sammy7nil]

If you want to reconstruct don't do all this shabby, back of a fag packet, mid season nonsense. Falkirk, The Rangers, SFA and anybody else getting into this are shabby cheats.

Lets get on with playing competitions. They have little enough credibility without being further undermined by shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic, to make money for greedy shabby clubs who've messed themselves up.

If it is to happen it should be now otherwise next season is pointless. Where as now the money is almost banked!

[greenlex]

If we go to a bigger league Scottish football will go down the drain.Anyone who watched it regularly in the bigger league days knows that there could be months of meaningless football where teams could neither be relegated nor win the league.I can't believe that anyone would want to pay to watch Hibs v QOS instead of Hibs v Celtic,Rangers,Hearts or Aberdeen.
Get it back to 2 points for a win and only home and away and the league would be more competitive and therefore more meaningful for longer at both ends. Increase the play off catchment and it would be meaningful alright.

[Greenworld]

If you want to reconstruct don't do all this shabby, back of a fag packet, mid season nonsense. Falkirk, The Rangers, SFA and anybody else getting into this are shabby cheats.

Lets get on with playing competitions. They have little enough credibility without being further undermined by shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic, to make money for greedy shabby clubs who've messed themselves up.
WoW nice rant lol...
Nobody is cheats wanting reconstruction there is no good time to do it but between now andcseason end is as good as youll get.
Me im all for it and ive not met one supporter from hibs or any other team that is not .
Im sure I might now though lol

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

[E10 Rifle]

WoW nice rant lol...
Nobody is cheats wanting reconstruction there is no good time to do it but between now andcseason end is as good as youll get.
Me im all for it and ive not met one supporter from hibs or any other team that is not .
Im sure I might now though lol

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

Agree - top 3 teams in the current Championship are definitely good enough for the SPL and on their/there/they're (ref. other thread) day Raith or Morton (currently) wouldn't be a million miles off. St. Mirren/Dunfermline need to improve but could definitely be decent additions in the future.

[offshorehibby]

League reconstruction seemingly on the agenda at an SPFL meeting at Hampden today.

[Greenworld]

League reconstruction seemingly on the agenda at an SPFL meeting at Hampden today.
Good and I for one hope it happens...

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

[Nutmegged]

No chance of it happening, Celtic, Rangers and Aberdeen all struggle to fill their stands outwith big games, reducing those games in half will have absolutely no interest in it from them.

Best we can hope for is a 14 team League with a 6/8 split in my opinion, that way we get more teams in and the big clubs and TV companies will still likely get their maximum derby dates be it Old Firm, New Firm, Dundee, Highland or Edinburgh Derbies

[greenpaper55]

If Rangers and Celtic had their way they would play each other every week ! never mind what the clubs want it's what the fans want that counts.

[s.a.m]

If Rangers and Celtic had their way they would play each other every week ! never mind what the clubs want it's what the fans want that counts.

That would be my ideal solution. On an island somewhere far away.

[Nutmegged]

If Rangers and Celtic had their way they would play each other every week ! never mind what the clubs want it's what the fans want that counts.

While its a nice notion, its also a romanticised one at that, if it were up to what the fans wanted we'd have anything between a 16-20 team Top tier and it would only be £15 for a ticket.

The Problem here is that cheaper tickets doesn't neccesarily gaurantee bigger crowds, also, if the club cant sell out games against Hearts/Celtic/Sevco/Aberdeen then do we truly feel that games against Raith/Morton/Queens/Falkirk will spoke crowds?

Football clubs are in perilous positions, while many do incredibly well to stay a float many are only a bad month or two away from disaster, Ticket revenue is the biggest source of income for Scottish Clubs, we should be mindful of that when we wonder why clubs aren't fully on board with League expansion

[greenpaper55]

While its a nice notion, its also a romanticised one at that, if it were up to what the fans wanted we'd have anything between a 16-20 team Top tier and it would only be £15 for a ticket.

The Problem here is that cheaper tickets doesn't neccesarily gaurantee bigger crowds, also, if the club cant sell out games against Hearts/Celtic/Sevco/Aberdeen then do we truly feel that games against Raith/Morton/Queens/Falkirk will spoke crowds?

Football clubs are in perilous positions, while many do incredibly well to stay a float many are only a bad month or two away from disaster, Ticket revenue is the biggest source of income for Scottish Clubs, we should be mindful of that when we wonder why clubs aren't fully on board with League expansion

I see what you are saying and it's true that when we had a bigger league there were meaningless games but to a certain extent we still have them, the difference today is that most supporters have ST's so the walk up supporter not attending has a much smaller influence on a clubs finances.

[Nutmegged]

I see what you are saying and it's true that when we had a bigger league there were meaningless games but to a certain extent we still have them, the difference today is that most supporters have ST's so the walk up supporter not attending has a much smaller influence on a clubs finances.

By the way, I'm a fan of a bigger League but I think it's a wee bit niave to expect clubs to just go for it when finances are so dodgy, I also know what you're saying about STs but I really cant see clubs being able to maintain ST prices if we cut Home League games from 18/19 to 15 and in those 15 we are also slashing the quality of opposition by at least half.

I think the smaller clubs would excel but I feel the bigger clubs would take big hits

[rabcp1]

The Problem here is that cheaper tickets doesn't neccesarily gaurantee bigger crowds, also, if the club cant sell out games against Hearts/Celtic/Sevco/Aberdeen then do we truly feel that games against Raith/Morton/Queens/Falkirk will spoke crowds?

Clubs can't sell out these games as there too common, bit of an extreme example but in the past 18 months we have played The Rangers 11 times! This IMO is the biggest problem with Scottish football, it's too stale, playing the same teams 3/4 times a season in the league has bored and switched off a lot of fans! If we only played teams twice a seson then more fans would make the effort to attend as its the only chance to see that home/away fixture

[Nutmegged]

Clubs can't sell out these games as there too common, bit of an extreme example but in the past 18 months we have played The Rangers 11 times! This IMO is the biggest problem with Scottish football, it's too stale, playing the same teams 3/4 times a season in the league has bored and switched off a lot of fans! If we only played teams twice a seson then more fans would make the effort to attend as its the only chance to see that home/away ficture

Yes but from a clubs prespective two home games against Rangers will likely get around 29k paying punters paying a good whack, one game against them instead of two might spike the crowd by one or two thosand so in order to maintain that level of income we'd be relying on a game against a Falkirk/Raith/Queens/St Mirren to attract around 12-14k for a similarly priced ticket...I just don't see how any club chairman can see it as a viable option.

The only way a 16 Team League will happen in my opinion is if BT Sports say right, here is a 5 year deal worth £150m (30m p/y) and that level of investment may allow Clubs to take the risk but without a fool proof plan on replacing what would be a gauranteed initial downturn in revenue then clubs will never want vote it through despite the fact I'd bet the Football fan in all of them would probably like to see it.

[rabcp1]

Yes but from a clubs prespective two home games against Rangers will likely get around 29k paying punters paying a good whack, one game against them instead of two might spike the crowd by one or two thosand so in order to maintain that level of income we'd be relying on a game against a Falkirk/Raith/Queens/St Mirren to attract around 12-14k for a similarly priced ticket...I just don't see how any club chairman can see it as a viable option.

The only way a 16 Team League will happen in my opinion is if BT Sports say right, here is a 5 year deal worth £150m (30m p/y) and that level of investment may allow Clubs to take the risk but without a fool proof plan on replacing what would be a gauranteed initial downturn in revenue then clubs will never want vote it through despite the fact I'd bet the Football fan in all of them would probably like to see it.

Very valid points however once we're back in the premier League, even though we've lost a lot off fans over the years we should be aiming to have a minimum crowd off 12k for any Saturday game, we've barely had a crowd off 15k for a old firm game in years now, if that gives us 29k a season then say 1 game attracts a 17k then a crowd of 13/14k v say Raith Rovers balances out, works in theory but in reality who knows.

For a 16 team league to work we'll still need a split with some extra games (which I realise contradicts part off my argument) and more importantly a commitent to try this for 3-5 years as its may take a season or two to deliver any benefit. It would be good to see Sky/BT invest in Scottish football to try and build a product but I'm not holding my breath.

[Nutmegged]

I'd love to see Hibs get a good 12k home crowd regularly in the Premiership but I'd not hold my breath for it to happen anytime soon, I'd also not expect prices to stay the same for a 16 team League with only one game vs Hearts, Celtic, Aberdeen, Rangers instead of two, so how do we sustain the level we're at and hopefully improve it without losing money?

If we need to sell our best player to deal with the initial loss in revenue then that would likely impact our performances/results which in turn would have a direct effect on the numbers we'd get through the gates, its a snowball effect, I think smaller clubs like Falkirk/Queens/Raith/ICT/Ross County would no doubt excel but I think biggish clubs like Hibs/Hearts/Aberdeen/Dundee Utd/Dundee would be the worst effected and while Celtic and Rangers would be severely hampered their loss wouldn't be as sore as the clubs you'd hope these changes would actually improve.

[rabcp1]

It's a tricky problem to tackle as theres no obvious solution which will satasify every club and supporter. What I'm sure everyone can agree on though is that fans in general are not happy with the current set up.

Scottish football is IMO structured to appease the TV companies for there spare change. Clubs and the SPFL need to rememeber that the bulk of income generated in Scottish football comes from fans actively attending matches and not from out TV deal. It's about time the game up here was structured with supporters in mind and not Structured just to please Sky/BT

[Geo_1875]

It's a tricky problem to tackle as theres no obvious solution which will satasify every club and supporter. What I'm sure everyone can agree on though is that fans in general are not happy with the current set up.

Scottish football is IMO structured to appease the TV companies for there spare change. Clubs and the SPFL need to rememeber that the bulk of income generated in Scottish football comes from fans actively attending matches and not from out TV deal. It's about time the game up here was structured with supporters in mind and not Structured just to please Sky/BT

This can be seen from the variety of kick-off times we are subjected to. Sunday games can be any from the following, 12:00 12:15 12:30 13:30 14:00 15:00 16:00 and remember the good old Sunday night 18:05. This to fit in with SKY/BT/BBC/ITV schedules and their love in with English football. And you don't know which day any game will be played on until the TV companies take their pick of the games and juggle their timetables. That's bad if you have to arrange travel or time off work in advance.

Take the game back from them and tell them which games they can have and when they will be played.

[rabcp1]

This can be seen from the variety of kick-off times we are subjected to. Sunday games can be any from the following, 12:00 12:15 12:30 13:30 14:00 15:00 16:00 and remember the good old Sunday night 18:05. This to fit in with SKY/BT/BBC/ITV schedules and their love in with English football. And you don't know which day any game will be played on until the TV companies take their pick of the games and juggle their timetables. That's bad if you have to arrange travel or time off work in advance.

Take the game back from them and tell them which games they can have and when they will be played.

The season we where relegated we had 17 different kickoff times covering every day off the week from our 38 league fixtures. I'm also pretty sure at some point over the past few seasons Celtic had gone an entire season without a single away fixture with a Saturday 3pm kickoff, such situations are farcical and show how much power the TV companies have over the game up here!

[BH Hibs]

Taking on board the last few points about loss of revenue through fewer games would any of our ST holders be willing to pay the same price for 4 fewer home games if it resulted in a change in the set up. Not sure how to do a poll on here

[Moulin Yarns]

Taking on board the last few points about loss of revenue through fewer games would any of our ST holders be willing to pay the same price for 4 fewer home games if it resulted in a change in the set up. Not sure how to do a poll on here

Only the thread starter can add a poll, which I have done. At the top of the first page.

[Ozyhibby]

The question in the poll is basically asking if it's OK to charge £26 for a game against Ross County. No thanks.

[BH Hibs]

Only the thread starter can add a poll, which I have done. At the top of the first page.

Cheers

[Nutmegged]

The season we where relegated we had 17 different kickoff times covering every day off the week from our 38 league fixtures. I'm also pretty sure at some point over the past few seasons Celtic had gone an entire season without a single away fixture with a Saturday 3pm kickoff, such situations are farcical and show how much power the TV companies have over the game up here!

Celtic went SEVEN Years without a Saturday 3pm Away fixture, from 1/10/05 vs Livingston until the 29/9/12 vs Motherell

Absolutely mental

[Geo_1875]

The question in the poll is basically asking if it's OK to charge £26 for a game against Ross County. No thanks.

Surely the sensible way would be increase the league to 16, play each other home and away then split top and bottom eight for a total of 37 games. That would give 18 or 19 home games depending on the sheer randomness of the computer programme. Would you go along to watch Hibs play Ross County for £21 or £22?

[BH Hibs]

The question in the poll is basically asking if it's OK to charge £26 for a game against Ross County. No thanks.

I see what you're saying but I'd be prepared to take the hit if it brought about a 16 team league maybe this revamped league cup could be added in as well

[greenpaper55]

I see what you're saying but I'd be prepared to take the hit if it brought about a 16 team league maybe this revamped league cup could be added in as well

Spot on, it's with a try rather than what we have just now.

[Ozyhibby]

I see what you're saying but I'd be prepared to take the hit if it brought about a 16 team league maybe this revamped league cup could be added in as well

You maybe would but most would not. If you added in the Leaugue cup games then that income would be lost.
IMHO any set up that involves less than 36 league games will be a non starter. The club's simply can't afford it.
The two leagues of 12 with an 8-8-8 split was the most realistic alternative.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Nutmegged]

I think if they really wantef a 16 team League with no splits then the only genuinely viable option has to be to include the League Cup fixtures onto the Season tickets and make the League Cup 100% regionalised which in turn would then need to include the European clubs in the groups so we would have Edinburgh, Old Firm, Dundee, Highland, Renfrewshire, Lanarkshire and Aberdeenshire Derbies in the group stages.

The revenue we currently take in for these matches is pretty low as it stands anyway, often most home clubs just about break even, and a large percentage of fans have no interest now in paying for Football outwith their Season Ticket unless its a Semi Final or a Final.

By the way, I'm not totally opposed to a 12/12-8/8/8 I must admit I thought it sounded ridiculous a few years ago but after thinking about it for a long time I actually began to really like it, my main concern would be teams with a small budget would likely not bother their bscksides about the initial League of 12 and hold fire on their budgets for the Play-Off League

[ancient hibee]

You maybe would but most would not. If you added in the Leaugue cup games then that income would be lost.
IMHO any set up that involves less than 36 league games will be a non starter. The club's simply can't afford it.
The two leagues of 12 with an 8-8-8 split was the most realistic alternative.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I thought that the treble 8 scheme was the best one that the SPL (as it was )has come up with and there's been nothing better since.

[BH Hibs]

You maybe would but most would not. If you added in the Leaugue cup games then that income would be lost.
IMHO any set up that involves less than 36 league games will be a non starter. The club's simply can't afford it.
The two leagues of 12 with an 8-8-8 split was the most realistic alternative.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Which is why I asked the question

[Danderhall Hibs]

You maybe would but most would not. If you added in the Leaugue cup games then that income would be lost.
IMHO any set up that involves less than 36 league games will be a non starter. The club's simply can't afford it.
The two leagues of 12 with an 8-8-8 split was the most realistic alternative.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Can HSL not cover the rest?

[greenpaper55]

Anything other than a larger league where the fear factor of relegation is reduced will not bring back an increase in young Scottish players making a breakthrough. That is the bottom line and if i had to pay a wee bit more for this privilege than so be it, history tells you that it worked in the past instead of bringing in fourth rate journeymen from all over just to avoid the threat of relegation.

[MyJo]

a premiership & championship of 16 teams with each team playing 30 games a season.
league cup organised into champions league style format with those 32 teams - 6 more guaranteed games a season home ties can be included in season tickets giving each team 18 guaranteed home games each.
regionalise the league cup groups giving more derbies each season.
make the league cup games for players aged under-23 with only 2 or 3 over-age players allowed in squads and at least 50% of squad to be home-grown to promote youth development.

regionalised pyramid structure below the top two leagues.

easy solution IMO

[Nutmegged]

Anything other than a larger league where the fear factor of relegation is reduced will not bring back an increase in young Scottish players making a breakthrough. That is the bottom line and if i had to pay a wee bit more for this privilege than so be it, history tells you that it worked in the past instead of bringing in fourth rate journeymen from all over just to avoid the threat of relegation.

Does history really tell us this or is it more of a fact that in the Pre Bosman era clubs could hold onto their better players for as long as they wished and also the opening up of the free market in Europe has had a direct consequence to our game.

There wasn't much wrong with the talent that came through from 75-95ish...the problems truly began after Bosman, not helped by the fact that every top flight club in England were suddenly flush for cash

[Golden Bear]

I can't contribute to the poll as I'm not a season ticket holder however I'd be far more inclined to buy one in the future if we had a sixteen team league.

[greenlex]

2 leauges of 20/21 and play each other twice home and away. 2points for a win would tighten things up. Increase the play offs for relegation and promotion. Have play offs at the top for the minor euro places too.
The english leagues outside the premiership have 24 teams and play offs. I dont hear much about meaningless games there.

[lord bunberry]

2 leauges of 20/21 and play each other twice home and away. 2points for a win would tighten things up. Increase the play offs for relegation and promotion. Have play offs at the top for the minor euro places too.
The english leagues outside the premiership have 24 teams and play offs. I dont hear much about meaningless games there.
That's what I'd do as well, a top league of 20 playing each other twice

[geebus]

Why not do what the German's do?! 18 team in top 2 leagues. That would be 36 teams in total. Enough for a country our size.

18 team league would give you 17 home and away games.

Scrap the League Cup altogether and make the Scottish Cup 2 leg's until the final.

[SeanWilson]

I'm torn on it, I want it to happen and think playing once home and away would be far better for the game, however I really don't want it to be the reason we are back in the top league next year.

[Moulin Yarns]

Heard Leanne saying she was happy with the current format but willing to listen to new ideas. Time to read this forum.

[IWasThere2016]

Delia says 12 teams is just fine.

Arabs not keen either .. Despite that it may stave off relegation

[IWasThere2016]

The Chairs/Ch Ex will be rubbing their hands at the prospect of Rangers and more TV games.

They want this certainty and not fewer OF home games eg 2 from 4 potentially.

The fans' views are of little value it seems.

[Keith_M]

18 teams, 17 home and 17 away games, no split.

Increased games in League Cup to help make up the 2 game shortfall.

[HibbyAndy]

Arabs not keen either .. Despite that it may stave off relegation

They should be keen G they are staring relegation in the puss!!

[IWasThere2016]

They should be keen G they are staring relegation in the puss!!

My thoughts too Andy. But I know the Chairman's views.

That's not to say his board agree..

[Purple & Green]

Celtic went SEVEN Years without a Saturday 3pm Away fixture, from 1/10/05 vs Livingston until the 29/9/12 vs Motherell

Absolutely mental

So, Celtic get seven years of telly exposure every other week for extremely limited exposure of their home gate receipts. Mental that clubs would vote for that.

The last time I checked, the tv cameras pitch up at park head much less than other clubs - that exacerbates the situation. It's been a hoot watching the crap crowds at ibrox this season in front of tv cameras.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[emerald green]

What are the current SPFL rules as far as league reconstruction is concerned? Basically, how many of the 42 SPFL clubs would have to vote in favour of reconstruction before it can go ahead? Does anyone know?

I'm in favour of any reconstruction which means Hibs get back into the Premier Division, with the proviso that I (everyone) would wish them to go up also winning the Championship.

[StevieBoyKdy]

My idea is to go with 3 leagues of 14
Each team plays each other 3 x
Game 3 the gate receipts would be split equally.
39 games per season.

[Just Alf]

Can HSL not cover the rest?

Pretty sure that money is ring fenced for player costs only, if it was to be used more generally across the club I think the HSL members would need to have a meeting and vote on it?

[marinello59]

Pretty sure that money is ring fenced for player costs only, if it was to be used more generally across the club I think the HSL members would need to have a meeting and vote on it?

I don't think he was being serious.

[Lago]

I'm torn on it, I want it to happen and think playing once home and away would be far better for the game, however I really don't want it to be the reason we are back in the top league next year.
Dont worry, it wont happen.