Our Defeats to Rangers This Season - What Have We Done Wrong?

[HibeeHutch]

I thought an in depth analysis of why we lost to Rangers a couple of weeks ago was pretty much air brushed out in favour of headlines related to the Fyvie and "Hullo, Hullo" incidents.

I didn't hear anything from Stubbs acknowledging where we had come up short and what didn't work. In fact, I haven't been able to find any critique of our performance anywhere, at all. It was all about how Rangers blew us away and how we just couldn't live with them. I know on our day we can, so what went wrong?

I'm just curious. Where do we think we need to improve in order to reverse the 3 defeats against them this season (2-6; 1-0; 4-2)? What did we do wrong during these games and how can we win the next time?

HH

[MWHIBBIES]

9 players injured is why we lost the 1st one, didn't take our chances was why we lost the 2nd.

[cameronw-hfc]

To beat Rangers, in my opinion, we need to go with 3 at the back and 2 wing backs, or 2 wingers. Wallace and Tavernier need to be pinned back, as neither is a fantastic defender, but both can attack. 3 at the back with Bartley playing, therefore, if we do get caught out by the full backs going too far up, Bartley slots in and we have a back 4 defending a counter.

I don't think it was a fluke that we beat them at Easter Road, however I do think we need to play with width and attack them, not try control possession or contain them, we need to go all out, with Bartley playing for defensive cover, in the last game Fyvie couldn't do the job of sitting and intercepting, as was proven, as he is too attack minded, whereas if Bartley won it in the same situation Fraser did, it would have been 1, maybe 2 touches then a backwards or sideways pass, and slowed the game down which was missed.

Going forward we need Malonga as if we do get caught out, and need an out-ball, Malonga will bring it in and hold it up, whereas 2 midgets that couldn't win a header if their life depended on it can't do that. Not saying Dom is good in the air, but his height and size is usually put to use well when in possession of the ball.

Of course this is just in my opinion and there's a reason Stubbs is the manager, but sometimes I do feel he needs someone with better tactical knowledge next to him for the help in the big games, not a dig, as its probably his only fault as a manager :gwa:.

[Forza Fred]

Didn't match them in intensity and ball movement.

Simply beat by a better side on those day, as we beat other sides.

[andrew70]

9 players injured is why we lost the 1st one, didn't take our chances was why we lost the 2nd.

This and we were just plain *****e in the last game at Ibrox there

[rcarter1]

Didn't match them in intensity and ball movement.

Simply beat by a better side on those day, as we beat other sides.

Agree.

I though we were matching them brilliantly for intensity and quality, and were holding our own for the first 30 minutes in spite of their possession. For me the match was lost mentally after their equaliser. Our confidence in the tackle from that moment diminished, and we just looked a little disjointed for the rest of the match.

I am not sure how this could have been turned around, but we weren't much improved in the second half either.

To be critical, the team was a little weak mentally - but it was a big game atmosphere and a learning experience, not sure many young developing teams go to a passionate Ibrox and keep their head the whole match.

The quality in the team is super, if this team stays together, I am sure they will get stronger and stronger, and cope much better with a match like this.

[Drewster]

To beat Rangers, in my opinion, we need to go with 3 at the back and 2 wing backs, or 2 wingers. Wallace and Tavernier need to be pinned back, as neither is a fantastic defender, but both can attack. 3 at the back with Bartley playing, therefore, if we do get caught out by the full backs going too far up, Bartley slots in and we have a back 4 defending a counter.

I don't think it was a fluke that we beat them at Easter Road, however I do think we need to play with width and attack them, not try control possession or contain them, we need to go all out, with Bartley playing for defensive cover, in the last game Fyvie couldn't do the job of sitting and intercepting, as was proven, as he is too attack minded, whereas if Bartley won it in the same situation Fraser did, it would have been 1, maybe 2 touches then a backwards or sideways pass, and slowed the game down which was missed.

Going forward we need Malonga as if we do get caught out, and need an out-ball, Malonga will bring it in and hold it up, whereas 2 midgets that couldn't win a header if their life depended on it can't do that. Not saying Dom is good in the air, but his height and size is usually put to use well when in possession of the ball.

Of course this is just in my opinion and there's a reason Stubbs is the manager, but sometimes I do feel he needs someone with better tactical knowledge next to him for the help in the big games, not a dig, as its probably his only fault as a manager :gwa:.

You are absolutely correct - as soon as I saw the team and formation then I thought we might struggle!
They effectively had at least one extra player in midfield, and with McGinn and Henderson playing wide we got ripped in the wide areas - we almost coped for 30mins, but when Gray got injured and McGregor came on at right back we were knackered!!?

All about opinions, but Allan's selections, tactics, and subs are often confusing..........but he does get results more often than not!!

[MWHIBBIES]

You are absolutely correct - as soon as I saw the team and formation then I thought we might struggle!
They effectively had at least one extra player in midfield, and with McGinn and Henderson playing wide we got ripped in the wide areas - we almost coped for 30mins, but when Gray got injured and McGregor came on at right back we were knackered!!?

All about opinions, but Allan's selections, tactics, and subs are often confusing..........but he does get results more often than not!!They are rarely confusing, that is why he gets results.

[Green Cabbage 7]

Wasn't worried for the first 30 mins, seem to be after the 2 gifts the game plan went out the window!

[spike220]

Mostly it boils down to scoring less goals than them!

[superfurryhibby]

They are rarely confusing, that is why he gets results.

Mmmm, beaten in three out of four games against them. These are the games that really matter. With the squad we have and the quality of the opposition, most of us could pick a team to win the majority of games against the dross we play most weeks.

A few factors.

They are better than many on here have given credit for.

We lack width and variety and need more of a cutting edge from midfield.

The tactics were wrong on the day and we omitted a key player who could have made a difference.

In saying all of that, we're still in there and have the opportunity to address some of our deficits during this transfer window. Another goalscorer and a wide player who can create and take opportunities would help a lot.

Can we fix it? Yes, we can!

[snooky]

Sat back. :grr:

[NAE NOOKIE]

Gave the buggers far too much respect.

[Iain G]

Gave the buggers far too much respect.

And too much time on the ball and too much room.

Stop their fullbacks getting forward and they lack width and options, we didn't do that in the last game, as said before the 352/532 option to reduce space on the wings would help, with a flat 4 at the back the fullbacks get pulled into the centre and leave space out wide if our wide midfielders aren't tracking back.

On the other hand, play 3 up front with two proper attacking wide players to get in behind their fullbacks as they push forward!

Actually, just get the ball to Jason and let him score, simples :greengrin

[Smartie]

I'm not convinced at all that our "diamond" works against Rangers (I'm starting to question it full stop but that's another matter).

I think we need to go 3-5-2 or a 4-3-3/ 4-5-1 against them in future.

Malonga MUST play from the start. He has pace, can hold the ball up, he just offers us something that none of our other forwards do.

We need to snuff out Waghorn - he was immense at Ibrox imo but was helped out a lot by us giving him the freedom of the park to cut in onto his left foot (see the last, killer goal).


Also - we need to forget about this for a couple of months. It's just one game and if we don't do the business between now and then then the game won't be of any importance. If we do then the game may take on less importance as they drop points.

I'm more concerned about how we might negotiate a tricky fixture at Falkirk this Sunday.

[hibs0666]

Mmmm, beaten in three out of four games against them. These are the games that really matter. With the squad we have and the quality of the opposition, most of us could pick a team to win the majority of games against the dross we play most weeks.


The Petrofac game did not matter one iota. So far the games that matter have gone with home advantage. Surprised that has not been mentioned.

I love this stuff about anyone being able to pick a team to win the majority of games. Total nonsense IMHO. :wink:

[superfurryhibby]

The Petrofac game did not matter one iota. So far the games that matter have gone with home advantage. Surprised that has not been mentioned.

I love this stuff about anyone being able to pick a team to win the majority of games. Total nonsense IMHO. :wink:

In terms of the end gamePetrofac was meaningless, but it handed them the initiative and showed our frailties. Fair point with home advantage though.

In terms of picking a team. It mostly picks itself? The hard part was identifying the right players and Stubbs has been pretty good at that. However, we're mostly playing poor teams and it doesn't take a Sir Alex to identify the players needed to win the majority of our games in this league.

[Lancs Harp]

We allowed Rangers too much space and time, we didn't respond to scoring first in the right way, I thought we sat back too much and let Rangers come onto us and dictate the game, we parked the bus but forgot to put the hand break on.

Its easier said than done of course to take the game to Rangers at Ibrox but I thought we could have given them a bit more to think about when we had the ball, who knows how they would respond to being put under a bit of pressure as none in this division seems to want or be able to do it (except us at Easter road).

Next time? Well certainly more intensity. More concentration, making the mistakes we did there is just asking for trouble. I would certainly play someone like Bartley just in front of the back three or four (I would go with four myself) we lost the midfield battle a Ibrox quite heavily IMO and when we do have e ball we need to move it a lot quicker than we did, use the width of the pitch and stretch them out a bit.

How good are Rangers? I don't know, they arent being tested enough at this level and we contributed to that at Ibrox. We are better than that.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Playing McGinn and McGeouch wide at Ibrox never helped, as both much better in central roles (talking about December game)

[J-C]

Been pointed out playing our best central men wide didn't and hasn't worked, play natural width against them and a strong central midfield and you'll get results. I think we need to play 3 at the back with a midfield 5, Lewis and Gray are more than capable of playing as wide midfielders and 3 in the middle match Rangers there.