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Ozyhibby
07-01-2016, 01:12 PM
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/07/85c164642778b51e3ac30a30b8ef4f23.jpg

Looks like HSL have just past the 07% mark.
A great effort from all that have signed up.



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Arch Stanton
07-01-2016, 02:56 PM
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/07/85c164642778b51e3ac30a30b8ef4f23.jpg

Looks like HSL have just past the 07% mark.
A great effort from all that have signed up.



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Is that 7% of the club or 7% of our target (i.e. 51% of club)? Is there a site you got that info from?

Ozyhibby
07-01-2016, 03:03 PM
Is that 7% of the club or 7% of our target (i.e. 51% of club)? Is there a site you got that info from?

7% of the club. I spotted it on their Twitter feed this morning.


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Arch Stanton
07-01-2016, 03:11 PM
7% of the club. I spotted it on their Twitter feed this morning.



Wow, that's pretty amazing. Another 7 or 8 years of that and the fans will control the club - a lot sooner than I'd been expecting.

Drewster
07-01-2016, 04:49 PM
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/07/85c164642778b51e3ac30a30b8ef4f23.jpg

Looks like HSL have just past the 07% mark.
A great effort from all that have signed up.



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I think that's pretty disappointing really - we were offered 51% of our Club valued at circa £15M for £2.5M, and we've only
managed to raise £175,000 so far!!?

I appreciate that things are difficult financially, but I think as fans we're missing a big opportunity!

CropleyWasGod
07-01-2016, 04:55 PM
I think that's pretty disappointing really - we were offered 51% of our Club valued at circa £15M for £2.5M, and we've only
managed to raise £175,000 so far!!?

I appreciate that things are difficult financially, but I think as fans we're missing a big opportunity!

That's just HSL, though. It doesn't take into account those who bought shares directly.

Round about the AGM, the overall figure was around (?) 19%.

Ozyhibby
07-01-2016, 04:59 PM
Wow, that's pretty amazing. Another 7 or 8 years of that and the fans will control the club - a lot sooner than I'd been expecting.

I think it could be a lot faster if we can sign up more members.


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GreenOnions
07-01-2016, 04:59 PM
If it's 7% of the club then (using the discounted offer value) I'd reckon that's nearer the £350k mark than £175k in terms of cash raised

Arch Stanton
07-01-2016, 05:04 PM
I think that's pretty disappointing really - we were offered 51% of our Club valued at circa £15M for £2.5M, and we've only
managed to raise £175,000 so far!!?

I appreciate that things are difficult financially, but I think as fans we're missing a big opportunity!

However, if it is 7% of the club it would be double that, which is why I asked.

We should maybe wait for confirmation before there is too much despondency / celebration.

Drewster
07-01-2016, 05:07 PM
That's just HSL, though. It doesn't take into account those who bought shares directly.

Round about the AGM, the overall figure was around (?) 19%.

That's a good point - 19% is much better than I thought we were doing!

ano hibby
07-01-2016, 06:45 PM
This was discussed on PM Board before Xmas..the approximate numbers are as follows:

Before the issue there were c.62.5m shares in issue & fans owned 2% of this.
By 31/7/15 c.£500k raised & at 4p each this results in 12.5m new shares being issued.
Total new shares in issue hence goes to 75m shares.
Of this 75m, 12.5m is new fans subscriptions ie the 17% to which add 2% to get the 19%. (JM mentioned this is now over 20%). So at year end fans had 19% ownership, voting rights etc
The company is authorised (I assume) to issue another 50m shares at 4p ie £2m left to go. When this happens fans will own just over 62.5m ie 51%.

Ozyhibby
07-01-2016, 07:35 PM
The important number for HSL to aim for is 20%.
That entitles them to a seat on the board.
If HSL can then get to 26% then it means that big decisions like whether we move from Easter road etc can only be made with agreement from the fans.



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CropleyWasGod
07-01-2016, 07:37 PM
The important number for HSL to aim for is 20%.
That entitles them to a seat on the board.
If HSL can then get to 26% then it means that big decisions like whether we move from Easter road etc can only be made with agreement from the fans.



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Not quite right on the last part, Ozy.

If the fans....not just HSL...get to 26%....etc etc.....

We're not far from that already.

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Arch Stanton
07-01-2016, 07:50 PM
Not quite right on the last part, Ozy.

If the fans....not just HSL...get to 26%....etc etc.....

We're not far from that already.

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That's a stunning achievement I reckon.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is how HSL and the individual shareholders get together to make joint decisions like agreeing on a board member. Has that been decided on, anyone know?

CropleyWasGod
07-01-2016, 07:53 PM
That's a stunning achievement I reckon.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is how HSL and the individual shareholders get together to make joint decisions like agreeing on a board member. Has that been decided on, anyone know?

AFAIK, it's HSL that have the member. The other fan-shareholders don't get a vote in that. They do, though, have the option to nominate anyone they want, independently of who HSL put up.

rcarter1
07-01-2016, 08:12 PM
I think this is great. I never imagined this would be a quick process. I am signed up to HSL, and I am delighted.

I have one (nieve?) question however..

If the money from these payments are being used to buy the club, how can they at the same time be used to buy players?

CropleyWasGod
07-01-2016, 08:15 PM
I think this is great. I never imagined this would be a quick process. I am signed up to HSL, and I am delighted.

I have one (nieve?) question however..

If the money from these payments are being used to buy the club, how can they at the same time be used to buy players?

The money is being paid to the club..... who then "fund sporting ambition".... in the main, buy and pay players.

In exchange for that money, HSL and the supporters are given NEW shares (that's important. If the shares weren't new, the money would go to the existing shareholders). As that shareholding increases, in time the fans/HSL will have a greater say and, hopefully, 51% ownership.

rcarter1
07-01-2016, 08:19 PM
The money is being paid to the club..... who then "fund sporting ambition".... in the main, buy players.

In exchange for that money, HSL and the supporters are given NEW shares (that's important. If the shares weren't new, the money would go to the existing shareholders). As that shareholding increases, in time the fans/HSL will have a greater say and, hopefully, 51% ownership.

Thanks for explanation. So if I understand it, the money paid by the HSL members is used by the club for players (etc.), and then new shares are generated and given - in a sense - for free to HSL, in proportion to the money brought in by the HSL scheme? I say for free, as I can't see how the money can be used for both players and shares?

CropleyWasGod
07-01-2016, 08:22 PM
Thanks for explanation. So if I understand it, the money paid by the HSL members is used by the club for players (etc.), and then new shares are generated and given - in a sense - for free to HSL, in proportion to the money brought in by the HSL scheme? I say for free, as I can't see how the money can be used for both players and shares?

There are actually 2 transactions here.

1. we give the club money, in exchange for shares.

2. the club now has that money, and uses it for the players.

Ozyhibby
07-01-2016, 08:26 PM
Thanks for explanation. So if I understand it, the money paid by the HSL members is used by the club for players (etc.), and then new shares are generated and given - in a sense - for free to HSL, in proportion to the money brought in by the HSL scheme? I say for free, as I can't see how the money can be used for both players and shares?

Any company can generate new shares in order to raise finance. It dilutes the value of the existing shares already in circulation.
The shares are purchased from the club and the club uses the money to get players.

http://www.hiberniansupporters.co.uk/phone/donate.html



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rcarter1
07-01-2016, 08:31 PM
There are actually 2 transactions here.

1. we give the club money, in exchange for shares.

2. the club now has that money, and uses it for the players.

Right, so as they are new shares the money isn't given to existing shareholders. My understanding of business ownership has taken a leap forward (I think!).

Win win for me, my money gets shares and players.

Thanks! :thumbsup:

rcarter1
07-01-2016, 08:34 PM
Any company can generate new shares in order to raise finance. It dilutes the value of the existing shares already in circulation.
The shares are purchased from the club and the club uses the money to get players.

http://www.hiberniansupporters.co.uk/phone/donate.html



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Thanks. So I suppose this kind of flotation requires existing shareholders to agree to this process of devaluing their own shares. Apologies for the drift off Hibs, but was 'New shares/devaluation of existing' part of the Mark Zuckerberg/Facebook story?

Ozyhibby
07-01-2016, 08:42 PM
Thanks. So I suppose this kind of flotation requires existing shareholders to agree to this process of devaluing their own shares. Apologies for the drift off Hibs, but was 'New shares/devaluation of existing' part of the Mark Zuckerberg/Facebook story?

No idea about Facebook but yes it did need existing shareholders to approve the creation of the new shares.



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Ozyhibby
07-01-2016, 08:43 PM
Right, so as they are new shares the money isn't given to existing shareholders. My understanding of business ownership has taken a leap forward (I think!).

Win win for me, my money gets shares and players.

Thanks! :thumbsup:

HSL is a definite WinWin for fans of the club.



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rcarter1
07-01-2016, 08:43 PM
No idea about Facebook but yes it did need existing shareholders to approve the creation of the new shares.



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All of the pennies have now dropped, cheers!

CropleyWasGod
07-01-2016, 08:45 PM
All of the pennies have now dropped, cheers!

Take a few leaflets when you go. Ozy has plenty :greengrin

rcarter1
07-01-2016, 09:21 PM
Take a few leaflets when you go. Ozy has plenty :greengrin

:thumbsup:

Ozyhibby
07-01-2016, 09:22 PM
Take a few leaflets when you go. Ozy has plenty :greengrin

All my leaflets are gone, didn't even get one myself. [emoji3]
Hopefully all this news will encourage a few more people to sign up.


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pontius pilate
07-01-2016, 09:45 PM
Question guys I had a dd set up for Hsl but had to cancel it due to lack I funds. Now that I have that issue sorted how do I go about settin it up again and re-joining where I left I think I only had two months before the 12 month point was done

Arch Stanton
08-01-2016, 01:24 PM
AFAIK, it's HSL that have the member. The other fan-shareholders don't get a vote in that. They do, though, have the option to nominate anyone they want, independently of who HSL put up.

That implies that individual shareholders need to go to the AGM to make their voice heard - I wonder how many actually do that.

HSL should end up with a %38 stake (currently %7 with %31 still available - deduced from post #11, although I'm ploughing through figures trying to make better sense of it all) and this will be a powerful holding, however, individual shareholders need to make sure they are on the ball to get maximum clout from our %51.

During the HSL debate it didn't sound as if the Shareholders Association was very effective which isn't very good. Meanwhile I'm just happy that my modest tenner a month is part of a block vote.

hibbybob
08-01-2016, 01:43 PM
Could individual shareholders give their voting rights to HSL whilst retaining the shares in their own name?

Ozyhibby
08-01-2016, 02:02 PM
Question guys I had a dd set up for Hsl but had to cancel it due to lack I funds. Now that I have that issue sorted how do I go about settin it up again and re-joining where I left I think I only had two months before the 12 month point was done

I'm not sure, leithenhibby is best to ask about that.


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NYHibby
08-01-2016, 02:06 PM
Could individual shareholders give their voting rights to HSL whilst retaining the shares in their own name?

You could make HSL your proxy for the AGM. A proxy card comes with the accounts.

Ozyhibby
08-01-2016, 02:13 PM
That implies that individual shareholders need to go to the AGM to make their voice heard - I wonder how many actually do that.

HSL should end up with a %38 stake (currently %7 with %31 still available - deduced from post #11, although I'm ploughing through figures trying to make better sense of it all) and this will be a powerful holding, however, individual shareholders need to make sure they are on the ball to get maximum clout from our %51.

During the HSL debate it didn't sound as if the Shareholders Association was very effective which isn't very good. Meanwhile I'm just happy that my modest tenner a month is part of a block vote.

I was at the agm and there was nothing to really vote on except acceptance of the accounts. Obviously there were lots of first time shareholders there finding their feet. It felt more like a fans forum to be honest and zero tough questions from the floor.
Hopefully that will change as the fans involvement grows. There are lots of issues with the club that people air on here that could have been put to the agm but weren't. Things like living wage gets mentioned in here all the time but it was not brought to the agm. I'm against implementing it but it's the sort of thing that should be properly discussed. There are loads of other issues that people are interested in like TV deals, football governance etc. that with more fan involvement we can properly challenge the club. I know HFC holdings still has a veto on everything but it's still good to question them.
As HSL grows it voice will become more powerful in shaping the club the way the fans want it to be.



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Arch Stanton
08-01-2016, 02:43 PM
You could make HSL your proxy for the AGM. A proxy card comes with the accounts.
That would seem like a good idea for a lot of fans - getting the best of both worlds.


I was at the agm and there was nothing to really vote on except acceptance of the accounts. Obviously there were lots of first time shareholders there finding their feet. It felt more like a fans forum to be honest and zero tough questions from the floor.
Hopefully that will change as the fans involvement grows. There are lots of issues with the club that people air on here that could have been put to the agm but weren't. Things like living wage gets mentioned in here all the time but it was not brought to the agm. I'm against implementing it but it's the sort of thing that should be properly discussed. There are loads of other issues that people are interested in like TV deals, football governance etc. that with more fan involvement we can properly challenge the club. I know HFC holdings still has a veto on everything but it's still good to question them.
As HSL grows it voice will become more powerful in shaping the club the way the fans want it to be.



I'm sure a lot of the time business will be mundane but there will also be the matter of voting board members on and off which could be important - especially in the future when Farmer's holdings pass on to others - it would be good if the fans had a major say in that.