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Lago
29-12-2015, 12:26 PM
Leeds have banned Sky TV claiming their games have been move too often to accommodate Sky, with a subsequent loss of attendance. Long time since anyone challenged Sky.

Haymaker
29-12-2015, 12:27 PM
Guess they won't want their £s then! Good luck Leeds!

matty_f
29-12-2015, 12:35 PM
I think Sky get a hard time for the football coverage. They have been the main driver in a huge jump in quality in English football since they got involved. As much as people complain about tv games being moved, I have to say I love a Monday night game, 'Super Sunday' is generally really good and Soccer Saturday has become part of a Saturday routine when Hibs are away.

On the odd occasions where I can't get to a home game, I'm delighted if it's on TV, or if I'm able to see footage either online or on a highlights show. I'd much rather that, than miss it altogether.

It is a pain when games are moved, but we've had plenty of time to get used to it. Surely nobody in this day and age thinks that 3pm on a Saturday is what it once was?

Fair play to Leeds for standing up for their fans, but they're biting the hand that feeds them, and at some point they'd have been involved to some degree in welcoming Sky on board. There surely must be a better way for them to make their point?

Beefster
29-12-2015, 12:36 PM
Leeds have banned Sky TV claiming their games have been move too often to accommodate Sky, with a subsequent loss of attendance. Long time since anyone challenged Sky.

It's not Sky that they're challenging, it's the League. Apparently Leeds want to push their agenda on individual clubs negotiating TV deals so it all seems a bit cynical.

snooky
29-12-2015, 12:36 PM
Wow, that's out of the blue.

Bostonhibby
29-12-2015, 12:42 PM
Great, all we need is all the other channels to ban Leeds in protest and I will never have to hear from Steve Evans again.

cabbageandribs1875
29-12-2015, 01:06 PM
damn, was looking forward to tonights game :( p*** off cellino

Eyrie
29-12-2015, 01:43 PM
I've some sympathy with Leeds here given how often their matches have been picked. At least they do get a fee for being the home team, which doesn't happen in Scotland.

It's not that long ago that Hibs refused to allow a game to be shown because we'd already been on TV too often, and as fans we're quick to complain when a game (even an away one) is moved to suit the broadcasters.

Diclonius
29-12-2015, 01:47 PM
It's a shame Leeds' owner is a complete mentalist, otherwise this would be taken more seriously.

matty_f
29-12-2015, 01:47 PM
I've some sympathy with Leeds here given how often their matches have been picked. At least they do get a fee for being the home team, which doesn't happen in Scotland.

It's not that long ago that Hibs refused to allow a game to be shown because we'd already been on TV too often, and as fans we're quick to complain when a game (even an away one) is moved to suit the broadcasters.

The difference was that Hibs had already had their allocated number of games, the one that was blocked was because it was over and above the quota.

Eyrie
29-12-2015, 01:55 PM
The difference was that Hibs had already had their allocated number of games, the one that was blocked was because it was over and above the quota.

I think we'd been shown seven times in total that year, whilst Leeds have apparently been shown nine times already and it's only midseason.

Ozyhibby
29-12-2015, 02:00 PM
Our TV deal is a disgrace considering how many viewers we provide. More people watch Scottish football than rugby league but we only get a fraction of the money they get.


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matty_f
29-12-2015, 02:02 PM
I think we'd been shown seven times in total that year, whilst Leeds have apparently been shown nine times already and it's only midseason.

I don't know the terms of the English agreement, but it's set out at the start of the season in Scotland how many times a club will be on TV, and Hibs had fulfilled their obligation.

matty_f
29-12-2015, 02:05 PM
Our TV deal is a disgrace considering how many viewers we provide. More people watch Scottish football than rugby league but we only get a fraction of the money they get.


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It's just what the market dictates, you can't blame TV providers for paying the lowest amount that they can for the rights - any industry works the same. You buy for as little as you can.

If there was a bigger demand for Scottish Football and therefore more competition for the rights, then they could sell the rights for more money. Unfortunately that competition doesn't exist, whereas for Rugby League, it does.

lucky
29-12-2015, 02:08 PM
Our TV deal is a disgrace considering how many viewers we provide. More people watch Scottish football than rugby league but we only get a fraction of the money they get.


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Have you got the stats that back this up? Not sure many viewers tune in unless it's the Old Firm involved.

Ozyhibby
29-12-2015, 02:21 PM
Have you got the stats that back this up? Not sure many viewers tune in unless it's the Old Firm involved.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/tv-crimes-how-scottish-football-5271308



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Ozyhibby
29-12-2015, 02:23 PM
It's just what the market dictates, you can't blame TV providers for paying the lowest amount that they can for the rights - any industry works the same. You buy for as little as you can.

If there was a bigger demand for Scottish Football and therefore more competition for the rights, then they could sell the rights for more money. Unfortunately that competition doesn't exist, whereas for Rugby League, it does.

It's not just what the market dictates. The quality of the negotiating team comes into it as well. We have Neil Doncaster. A man who could not find a sponsor for two years.


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Geo_1875
29-12-2015, 02:23 PM
Have you got the stats that back this up? Not sure many viewers tune in unless it's the Old Firm involved.

Nothing to do with how many people tune in. SKY are after subscriptions not viewers.

Viva_Palmeiras
29-12-2015, 02:28 PM
It's not just what the market dictates. The quality of the negotiating team comes into it as well. We have Neil Doncaster. A man who could not find a sponsor for two years.


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I think you'll find that's "the invisible hand of the market" - showing 2 fingers... ;)

matty_f
29-12-2015, 02:35 PM
It's not just what the market dictates. The quality of the negotiating team comes into it as well. We have Neil Doncaster. A man who could not find a sponsor for two years.


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It's a buyer's market though. If you need to sell your car and there's one gadgie that wants it and offers you a grand, your choice is to either take the grand or not sell it. That's more or less where Scottish football is at the moment, and because there appears to be no real appetite to change the set up (be that a bigger league, summer football, or whatever) with too many teams too interested in self-interest, then it will always be that way.

Trust me, the EPL is by far and away the biggest draw for Sky, they make loads on it. They don't get anywhere close to that return on Scottish football - nowhere near it. In fact, there's more Scottish viewers watching English football than there are watching Scottish football. The SPFL is not even the main reason for buying Sky Sports in Scotland!

Of course it's what the market dictates. There is literally no benefit in Sky or BT or anyone else throwing more money than they need to in order to secure the rights to the games. Remember that both BT and Sky know exactly how much revenue they get on the back of that investment. No matter how good the negotiator, if that margin isn't right for Sky or BT or whoever, they'd just leave it. The SPFL is almost a completely insignificant part of their sports scheduling. The viewing figures for a game like St Johnstone v Hamilton is about two men and their dugs. You get a bit more for Hibs v Hearts, and the Old Firm derby is the big draw for them, the only game that gets remotely close to the viewing figures of the EPL games - even the shan ones.

To put it into perspective, in Sky's top 70 viewed matches last season, there was only one that was from outside the EPL, which was the Champions League Final. Why on earth would they plow money into Scottish Football?

lucky
29-12-2015, 03:05 PM
They have lifted the ban now according to the BBC

McD
29-12-2015, 03:07 PM
It's a buyer's market though. If you need to sell your car and there's one gadgie that wants it and offers you a grand, your choice is to either take the grand or not sell it. That's more or less where Scottish football is at the moment, and because there appears to be no real appetite to change the set up (be that a bigger league, summer football, or whatever) with too many teams too interested in self-interest, then it will always be that way.

Trust me, the EPL is by far and away the biggest draw for Sky, they make loads on it. They don't get anywhere close to that return on Scottish football - nowhere near it. In fact, there's more Scottish viewers watching English football than there are watching Scottish football. The SPFL is not even the main reason for buying Sky Sports in Scotland!

Of course it's what the market dictates. There is literally no benefit in Sky or BT or anyone else throwing more money than they need to in order to secure the rights to the games. Remember that both BT and Sky know exactly how much revenue they get on the back of that investment. No matter how good the negotiator, if that margin isn't right for Sky or BT or whoever, they'd just leave it. The SPFL is almost a completely insignificant part of their sports scheduling. The viewing figures for a game like St Johnstone v Hamilton is about two men and their dugs. You get a bit more for Hibs v Hearts, and the Old Firm derby is the big draw for them, the only game that gets remotely close to the viewing figures of the EPL games - even the shan ones.

To put it into perspective, in Sky's top 70 viewed matches last season, there was only one that was from outside the EPL, which was the Champions League Final. Why on earth would they plow money into Scottish Football?


:agree: Nail on head

NORTHERNHIBBY
29-12-2015, 03:10 PM
It is a shame because their new Manager is made for TV and a real engaging sort. .

lord bunberry
29-12-2015, 03:13 PM
It is a shame because their new Manager is made for TV and a real engaging sort. .
:faf::faf:

matty_f
29-12-2015, 03:43 PM
They have lifted the ban now according to the BBC

Well, they definitely put Sky in their place there, then! :greengrin

bingo70
29-12-2015, 04:03 PM
It's a buyer's market though. If you need to sell your car and there's one gadgie that wants it and offers you a grand, your choice is to either take the grand or not sell it. That's more or less where Scottish football is at the moment, and because there appears to be no real appetite to change the set up (be that a bigger league, summer football, or whatever) with too many teams too interested in self-interest, then it will always be that way.

Trust me, the EPL is by far and away the biggest draw for Sky, they make loads on it. They don't get anywhere close to that return on Scottish football - nowhere near it. In fact, there's more Scottish viewers watching English football than there are watching Scottish football. The SPFL is not even the main reason for buying Sky Sports in Scotland!

Of course it's what the market dictates. There is literally no benefit in Sky or BT or anyone else throwing more money than they need to in order to secure the rights to the games. Remember that both BT and Sky know exactly how much revenue they get on the back of that investment. No matter how good the negotiator, if that margin isn't right for Sky or BT or whoever, they'd just leave it. The SPFL is almost a completely insignificant part of their sports scheduling. The viewing figures for a game like St Johnstone v Hamilton is about two men and their dugs. You get a bit more for Hibs v Hearts, and the Old Firm derby is the big draw for them, the only game that gets remotely close to the viewing figures of the EPL games - even the shan ones.

To put it into perspective, in Sky's top 70 viewed matches last season, there was only one that was from outside the EPL, which was the Champions League Final. Why on earth would they plow money into Scottish Football?

The same reason they ploughed it into English football? To make it better and therefore more attractive to potential subscribers.

Imo it's in sky's interests for Scottish football to be ***** as it'll drive more and more youngsters to the English Premiership. It's not even the money they put in, it's how badly they promote our game that annoys me.

That said I still subscribe to it so I realise I'm a hypocrite.

MKHIBEE
29-12-2015, 04:15 PM
Great, all we need is all the other channels to ban Leeds in protest and I will never have to hear from Steve Evans again.

We can but hope

cabbageandribs1875
29-12-2015, 07:45 PM
marching on together

Geo_1875
29-12-2015, 08:44 PM
The same reason they ploughed it into English football? To make it better and therefore more attractive to potential subscribers.

Imo it's in sky's interests for Scottish football to be ***** as it'll drive more and more youngsters to the English Premiership. It's not even the money they put in, it's how badly they promote our game that annoys me.

That said I still subscribe to it so I realise I'm a hypocrite.

Exactly this. SKY didn't invest in England because it was the best, biggest , most exciting league in the world. Their over-investment has convinced people that it is a must see and that English teams have rhe best players in the universe. Well I watched Man U play Chelsea last night on BT Sports and I would have been sick if I'd paid £75 for a ticket or however much it is a month to subscribe to SKY Sports. That was a lie as I turned the tv over after 35 minutes.

Scottish football should say **** SKY, play at 3:00 pm on a Saturday and let anyone who wants to watch come along.

macca70
29-12-2015, 08:52 PM
They are happy to take there fair share of live games but there issue is due to them having to move more of there games than anyone else for TV.

And when a game is moved for TV, it often has a knock on effect that means the following game sometimes needs moved, which makes booking travel, etc a nightmare

matty_f
30-12-2015, 01:49 AM
The same reason they ploughed it into English football? To make it better and therefore more attractive to potential subscribers.

Imo it's in sky's interests for Scottish football to be ***** as it'll drive more and more youngsters to the English Premiership. It's not even the money they put in, it's how badly they promote our game that annoys me.

That said I still subscribe to it so I realise I'm a hypocrite.

That horse has long since bolted. For a while, in the early days, it was possibly worthwhile, when Hibs were signing Sauzee, or Dundee signing Caniggia etc, but not now.

The investment needed to bring Scottish football up to the levels of attraction of the EPL are so astronomical as to make it a totally redundant idea. They don't need to do it. They did it already with the EPL, and so long as they have that then there is no need for them to add another flagship league. Everything else football-wise on Sky is a sideshow to the EPL.

It would be cheaper for Sky to get the rights to Seria A or the Bundesliga than it would to make Scottish football a product that folk outside of Scotland wanted to subscribe to Sky for.

bingo70
30-12-2015, 06:52 AM
That horse has long since bolted. For a while, in the early days, it was possibly worthwhile, when Hibs were signing Sauzee, or Dundee signing Caniggia etc, but not now.

The investment needed to bring Scottish football up to the levels of attraction of the EPL are so astronomical as to make it a totally redundant idea. They don't need to do it. They did it already with the EPL, and so long as they have that then there is no need for them to add another flagship league. Everything else football-wise on Sky is a sideshow to the EPL.

It would be cheaper for Sky to get the rights to Seria A or the Bundesliga than it would to make Scottish football a product that folk outside of Scotland wanted to subscribe to Sky for.

I don't think anybody would suggest it gets brought up to epl standard, given their crowds that would never be realistic. There has to be a better balance though. As I said also it's not just how much money they put in, it's how they promote the game, in the build up to a big game they'll give about a 3 minute clip on sky sports news and that's it, at the start of the season they give it no hype and at the end they completely ignore it. I know the spfl don't do enough to promote our game either but sky do an unbelievable job of promoting English football so I don't think it's unfair to ask them to do a little to promote our game.

bingo70
01-01-2016, 07:23 AM
I don't think anybody would suggest it gets brought up to epl standard, given their crowds that would never be realistic. There has to be a better balance though. As I said also it's not just how much money they put in, it's how they promote the game, in the build up to a big game they'll give about a 3 minute clip on sky sports news and that's it, at the start of the season they give it no hype and at the end they completely ignore it. I know the spfl don't do enough to promote our game either but sky do an unbelievable job of promoting English football so I don't think it's unfair to ask them to do a little to promote our game.

Just to stress my point I've been watching sky sports news for the last hour and they're analysing everything about the top flight in English football and the year that's just been but not a peep about Scottish football. I'm not expecting Scottish football to get the same coverage but would a 10-15 minute analysis or more than a 2 second clip on the 20 minute montage really be an unreasonable expectation?

They've now moved on to promoting some Australian cricket game.

When it's a British tv network I think it's ridiculous how much we get ignored.

ScottB
01-01-2016, 09:50 AM
Just to stress my point I've been watching sky sports news for the last hour and they're analysing everything about the top flight in English football and the year that's just been but not a peep about Scottish football. I'm not expecting Scottish football to get the same coverage but would a 10-15 minute analysis or more than a 2 second clip on the 20 minute montage really be an unreasonable expectation?

They've now moved on to promoting some Australian cricket game.

When it's a British tv network I think it's ridiculous how much we get ignored.

Sky's a commercial enterprise, under no obligation to offer any sort of equality of coverage, or to offer coverage of Scottish things at all.

If they spend more time talking about Aussie cricket than Scottish football, it's because they've determined they get more viewers and consequently make more money from doing so.

lyonhibs
01-01-2016, 10:15 AM
Sky's a commercial enterprise, under no obligation to offer any sort of equality of coverage, or to offer coverage of Scottish things at all.

If they spend more time talking about Aussie cricket than Scottish football, it's because they've determined they get more viewers and consequently make more money from doing so.

Quite. The simple supply and demand relationship determine what gets shown for how long and how often etc.

Geo_1875
01-01-2016, 10:33 AM
Quite. The simple supply and demand relationship determine what gets shown for how long and how often etc.

That's not quite true. They create their own market by over-investing as a loss leader then pushing the product as being better than it really is. Look at their involvement with the retired players pension fund or North American Soccer League as rhey call it.

Carheenlea
01-01-2016, 10:48 AM
I don't think anybody would suggest it gets brought up to epl standard, given their crowds that would never be realistic. There has to be a better balance though. As I said also it's not just how much money they put in, it's how they promote the game, in the build up to a big game they'll give about a 3 minute clip on sky sports news and that's it, at the start of the season they give it no hype and at the end they completely ignore it. I know the spfl don't do enough to promote our game either but sky do an unbelievable job of promoting English football so I don't think it's unfair to ask them to do a little to promote our game.

In Ireland the EPL is a national obsession. The game dominates the back pages of the press, features heavily on main news sports bulletins, has coverage on a par with 5live on national radio. Their own domestic game gets nothing like the same attention. I often wonder if this was the case in the days before Sky?

bingo70
01-01-2016, 10:55 AM
In Ireland the EPL is a national obsession. The game dominates the back pages of the press, features heavily on main news sports bulletins, has coverage on a par with 5live on national radio. Their own domestic game gets nothing like the same attention. I often wonder if this was the case in the days before Sky?

Imo this is what sky want to happen with Scottish football. The only reason they invest the small amount they do is to appease the Scottish subscribers they have.

Hibby Bairn
01-01-2016, 11:16 AM
That's not quite true. They create their own market by over-investing as a loss leader then pushing the product as being better than it really is. Look at their involvement with the retired players pension fund or North American Soccer League as rhey call it.

Correct. But that needs a different business plan from SPFL. One I suspect SPFL and the clubs could not put forward given investment needed in the product.

Geo_1875
01-01-2016, 11:59 AM
Correct. But that needs a different business plan from SPFL. One I suspect SPcouldn't e clubs could not put forward given investment needed in the product.

True but the US model of franchising sports is not one we should follow. A small country like Scotland couldn't sustain enough teams to make a competitive league structure. The American league has proven to be unsustainable in the past. Now with SKY money in addition ro rhe franchise owners investment they might have a future.tBut still has no interest for me.