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hibee92
29-12-2015, 01:23 AM
Absolutely not bitter. They deserved the win and fair play to the players on the park that deserved it more.

But. At what point is something done about the countless songs from The Rangers fans' mouths shouting Fenians? Calling Alan Stubbs a Fenian b***ard? I've not censored the word Fenian but absolutely understand if the mods hide it.


I just think if we're told that this kind of behaviour is unacceptable then nothing is done, how can't we assume there's a bias here? I'm not asking for points deducted. I'm not personally asking for anything really. Just consistency amongst the people that are supposed to change Scottish football. They've done nothing. And that's disappointing.

Is there any way whatsoever we can change this?

Greencore
29-12-2015, 01:53 AM
If they were using the word n***** then it would be a different story. Even p*** or ch***** or Muslim. But fenians, nope.

Shrekko
29-12-2015, 02:20 AM
The Billy Boys was supposedly put on a banned list years ago and they stopped singing it when the club begged them to because UEFA were taking an interest. The whole ground was singing it during the game.

.Sean.
29-12-2015, 02:40 AM
Graeme Spiers and Tom English tweeted about it but no doubt itll be swept under the carpet. Minority

Nutmegged
29-12-2015, 04:27 AM
Their so called songs of choice was a disgrace but cards on the table, id doubt people would even care if we got a positive result.

givescotlandfreedom
29-12-2015, 05:10 AM
The only ones to take action has been UEFA. Police Scotland, The Rangers FC and SPFL seem to think it's acceptable because it's the done thing in their West coast cesspits.

Pete
29-12-2015, 05:58 AM
Their so called songs of choice was a disgrace but cards on the table, id doubt people would even care if we got a positive result.

I'm not sure about that. People have had enough.

Ozyhibby
29-12-2015, 06:28 AM
Nothing will be done about it. Our own club will also be silent on the issue.


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The Green Goblin
29-12-2015, 06:38 AM
Their so called songs of choice was a disgrace but cards on the table, id doubt people would even care if we got a positive result.

There were several angry posts about it after we beat them at ER. Springbank wrote a particularly good letter to various people (including the club) about it, but don't know if he got a reply or not.

Steve-O
29-12-2015, 06:39 AM
It doesn't actually offend me per se, but I find it annoying that it is illegal and nothing is done about it week after week, year after year.

itslegaltender
29-12-2015, 08:06 AM
It doesn't actually offend me per se, but I find it annoying that it is illegal and nothing is done about it week after week, year after year.

The more damning thing I saw on Twitter was the tweets from journos acknowledging the issue but refusing to comment on it. Derek Rae and Chris McLaughlin as an example.

BT sport apologised for someone shouting a swearing word during transmission but said nothing about the sectarian bile.

ColintonHibs
29-12-2015, 08:06 AM
Graeme Spiers and Tom English tweeted about it but no doubt itll be swept under the carpet. Minority

They say its a minority but literally the whole ground was singing sectarian songs from before the game even started. They sang more sectarian songs than songs about rangers.

Stokesy's on fire
29-12-2015, 08:13 AM
Absolutely not bitter. They deserved the win and fair play to the players on the park that deserved it more.

But. At what point is something done about the countless songs from The Rangers fans' mouths shouting Fenians? Calling Alan Stubbs a Fenian b***ard? I've not censored the word Fenian but absolutely understand if the mods hide it.


I just think if we're told that this kind of behaviour is unacceptable then nothing is done, how can't we assume there's a bias here? I'm not asking for points deducted. I'm not personally asking for anything really. Just consistency amongst the people that are supposed to change Scottish football. They've done nothing. And that's disappointing.

Is there any way whatsoever we can change this?



People need to put in official complaints to get something done

That song was banned and so it should be I do hope they get a massive fine for it

Ozyhibby
29-12-2015, 08:17 AM
People need to put in official complaints to get something done

That song was banned and so it should be I do hope they get a massive fine for it

A good start would be our own club making a statement on the issue.


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Kojock
29-12-2015, 08:17 AM
There were at least three songs / chants that contained the phrase Fenian B******. As already posted there were thousands singing it. I just find it sad that this sort of behaviour appears to be acceptable in this day and age. Scotland's shame.

Stokesy's on fire
29-12-2015, 08:21 AM
A good start would be our own club making a statement on the issue.


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Correct Let's hope action is taken.

JimBHibees
29-12-2015, 08:22 AM
The cop out is that the clubs unanimously voted that individual clubs could not be held responsible for the actions of their own fans which to me is totally shameless. For whatever reason the anti sectarian legislation appears not to have worked in that and I am guessing here the judiciary had the opinion it wasn't fit for purpose. What we now have is the vacuum as demonstrated yesterday the fans of the club with the most obvious sectarian issues now feel emboldened to do whatever they want. Back to square one. Shameful from all concerned, a modern society my erse.

Ozyhibby
29-12-2015, 08:25 AM
The cop out is that the clubs unanimously voted that individual clubs could not be held responsible for the actions of their own fans which to me is totally shameless. For whatever reason the anti sectarian legislation appears not to have worked in that and I am guessing here the judiciary had the opinion it wasn't fit for purpose. What we now have is the vacuum as demonstrated yesterday the fans of the club with the most obvious sectarian issues now feel emboldened to do whatever they want. Back to square one. Shameful from all concerned, a modern society my erse.

Correct. Nothing will change unless fans start holding their own clubs to account.


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lord bunberry
29-12-2015, 08:33 AM
The only way to stop it is to dock points from the offending team. The fans would stop others from singing these songs if they thought their team would lose out. The government should be putting pressure on the sfa to make this happen.

Jim44
29-12-2015, 08:40 AM
Somebody told me that BT turned the volume down during certain lines of songs. If this is true, it's evidence that they are aware of the issue. Is it worthwhile complaining to BT Sport? Imagine they had to inform the SPFL that they would have to stop live broadcasting of Sevco matches. Better still they might threaten to withdraw their contract altogether. That might make the blazers sit up and take action.

Ozyhibby
29-12-2015, 08:52 AM
This article appeared in the Herald about a year ago. What I would like to know is, are Hibs in the 5% or the 95%?
----------


In the summer of 2013 Stewart Regan and Campbell Ogilvie, the chief executive and president respectively, told the SFA members that the time had come to copy Fifa and Uefa and introduce "strict liability" on discriminatory behaviour by supporters. In other words, if fans step out of line it is the clubs who pay the penalty, be it via fines, part-closure of grounds, docking of points, whatever. There would be no hiding behind "we did everything we could, it wasn't our fault". The issue was put to a vote at Hampden and the result said it all: only five per cent were in favour of it.

Regan bit his tongue, praised the quality of debate and said clubs did recognise there was a need to do more, but more tellingly he summed it up like this: "It's disappointing because Uefa do this [strict liability] and it works. If clubs are dealt with, and they behave inappropriately again and are dealt with again, there comes a point where fans are spoken to and behaviour improves. The Scottish FA's view is that it should be able to work on a domestic level. However, it was a leap too far for the members. Clubs would have been voting to punish themselves in the event of unacceptable behaviour. So you can see there's a bit of self-interest coming into play. No club wants to sign its own warrant for a sanction." When the SPFL was formed, that same summer, it adopted all of the same rules on "unacceptable conduct" and didn't want to know about strict liability. And so clubs can claim they are taking a stance without the risk of being held accountable.

The end result can be thousands of supporters inside Hampden singing "The Famine Song" and "No Pope of Rome" and a pathetic, watery response from the authorities, as if that is just what happens in 2015 Scotland. There is the Offensive Behaviour at Football Act, of course, but that is ill-conceived and impractical legislation unpopular with lawyers and the police, let alone supporters. There were only 12 arrests for sectarian behaviour at the Old Firm game. The police have said often enough that they will not wade into stands and start arresting dozens of fans for singing, let alone hundreds or thousands.

Earlier this season clubs in England received a letter from the Football Association informing them that "strict liability" was to be introduced there. The FA had been pressurised into that by MPs and campaigners appalled by some racist, homophobic and anti-semitic incidents. There is no evidence that the Scottish Government is inclined lean on the SFA and SPFL in the same way, or that campaigners here will be as successful.

That's a shame, because strict liability and zero tolerance would work. When Rangers or Celtic have been disciplined by Uefa they can't get statements out quickly enough to warn fans and condemn those who embarrass them. When there's an SPFL probe? Barely a word. The ironic thing is that after a stinging initial fine or two, which would force the penny to drop with fans, no club would benefit from a tougher line more than Rangers.


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Northernhibee
29-12-2015, 09:00 AM
It's all on the Ibrox loyal Facebook page so their support are admitting it and condoning it. I guess the SFA will say it's a minority and do nothing.

EH54
29-12-2015, 09:08 AM
Police officer told me that he couldn't do anything about 50,000 rangers fans signing sectarian abuse however if i didn't take my seat i would be thrown out i then asked will it at least be in your police report in which he said course would love to see his police report doubt anything will be mentioned though

Ozyhibby
29-12-2015, 09:15 AM
It's all on the Ibrox loyal Facebook page so their support are admitting it and condoning it. I guess the SFA will say it's a minority and do nothing.

The SFA are the clubs. It's up to fans to lobby their individual clubs to change the rules.


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liamh2202
29-12-2015, 09:18 AM
Somebody told me that BT turned the volume down during certain lines of songs. If this is true, it's evidence that they are aware of the issue. Is it worthwhile complaining to BT Sport? Imagine they had to inform the SPFL that they would have to stop live broadcasting of Sevco matches. Better still they might threaten to withdraw their contract altogether. That might make the blazers sit up and take action.

No it was all heard loud and clear.... The worrying thing is that during one particular billy boys they actually kept going on about how they were lifting the atmosphere and how good it was as the camera spanned round the stadium... Bearing in mind it was stuart mcall who obviously know exactly what they are signing. I do not get offended by the songs but as said above just because one guy in a race doesnt get offended doesnt mean you could be racist... What is the difference? Its time something was done and its also time aomething is done about where we are housed and how we are treated at ibrox. It pains me in this day and age that ive had to stop going to a football ground because i dont want to risk my boy geting hit by missiles (he has been on several occasions but we had a close call at the last game from a flyibg bottle)

21.05.2016
29-12-2015, 09:32 AM
Rangers are a club rotten to their very core. A truly vile, bigotted institution. The whole rangers support were heard yesterday belting out loud and proud how they were "up to their knees in fenian blood". But yet again we will be fed the same old pish about "just a minority". Minority my arse!

****bags the lot of them. Utter lowlifes of the highest order.

marinello59
29-12-2015, 09:33 AM
Somebody told me that BT turned the volume down during certain lines of songs. If this is true, it's evidence that they are aware of the issue. Is it worthwhile complaining to BT Sport? Imagine they had to inform the SPFL that they would have to stop live broadcasting of Sevco matches. Better still they might threaten to withdraw their contract altogether. That might make the blazers sit up and take action.

The offensive lines were not sung by the entire Sevco support so they would have appeared muted as they did in the stadium. That so many of their fans chose not to sing those lines suggests there is hope that if the will was their then the fans themselves could police the sectarian lines out of existence.
We did it so it can be done.

EdinMike
29-12-2015, 09:35 AM
Is anyone really offended by words !? Which at the end of the day is what this really is. Sticks and stones and all that.

I'm from Irish decent and couldn't care two bits.

21.05.2016
29-12-2015, 09:38 AM
It's all on the Ibrox loyal Facebook page so their support are admitting it and condoning it. I guess the SFA will say it's a minority and do nothing.

They openly condone it because they are so arrogant and know fine well nothing will be done about it.

The authorities in this country are an embarrasment. Constantly coming out with campaigns to kick sectarianism and bigotry out of the game yet continuously let these ****bags away with murder. If that was any other club outside of the Glasgow bigot brothers then they would be absolutely hammered. But no god forbid upsetting the old firm eh :rolleyes:

The Rangers FC - Scotland's almighty shame

liamh2202
29-12-2015, 09:42 AM
Is anyone really offended by words !? Which at the end of the day is what this really is. Sticks and stones and all that.

I'm from Irish decent and couldn't care two bits.

I serve with black carribean guys.. Who probably have the most racist sense of humour towards themselves. Does that make it ok for me to then sing racist songs because they arnt offended? Its not about caring what they are signing its about standing up for the fact theres no place for it in modern football stadia or civilised society. It may only be a song to most of us but across our country its a pedal for hatred and violence

21.05.2016
29-12-2015, 10:01 AM
I serve with black carribean guys.. Who probably have the most racist sense of humour towards themselves. Does that make it ok for me to then sing racist songs because they arnt offended? Its not about caring what they are signing its about standing up for the fact theres no place for it in modern football stadia or civilised society. It may only be a song to most of us but across our country its a pedal for hatred and violence

:top marks

Bishop Hibee
29-12-2015, 10:23 AM
The Billy Boys was supposedly put on a banned list years ago and they stopped singing it when the club begged them to because UEFA were taking an interest. The whole ground was singing it during the game.

Oldco had stamped out the Billy Boys. Newco encourages it. Hibs should speak out. I'd like our fan reps on the board to take this up. We all know that for "Fenian" read "Catholic" whether they admit it or not. Scotland's shame.

21.05.2016
29-12-2015, 10:24 AM
Rangers Supporters statement saying they were singing "up to our knees in EBT's" :faf::faf::faf::faf:

Aye and Stubbs was just an "EBT" ******* then was he :faf:

****ing unbelievable. Their bigots and fine well they ken it!

Videos uploaded by Barry Anderson now, in which you can quite clearly hear fenian being shouted/sang.

NAE NOOKIE
29-12-2015, 10:28 AM
When their team is on top the go to response from the The Rangers crowd is Derry's walls or The Billy boys .... Bad enough in a Scottish context, but lets not forget that these games are shown in Northern Ireland too, where sectarianism has resulted in thousands of deaths.

As a country we have a responsibility to help stamp out this vile backward nonsense from 'both' sides .... If our clubs are unwilling to do so then its time for UEFA to do it for them by barring Scottish clubs from European competition until this stuff stops.

Ozyhibby
29-12-2015, 10:29 AM
Oldco had stamped out the Billy Boys. Newco encourages it. Hibs should speak out. I'd like our fan reps on the board to take this up. We all know that for "Fenian" read "Catholic" whether they admit it or not. Scotland's shame.

Would be a good thing if the fans reps could report back on the clubs position on strict liability.
Would also like to know more about Petrie's role at the SFA.


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GreenOnions
29-12-2015, 11:08 AM
The songs are moronic and vile. I often hear Rangers supporters asking why so many people hate them :rolleyes:

Having said that - I think the "anti-sectarian" law was one of many examples of Alex Salmond placing politics before good sense.

Key to my description of Salmond's law as "political" rather than "moral" or "practical" is the fact that offensive behaviour of the type being discussed could easily be dealt with by other legislation that pre-existed the "anti-sectarian" Bill. Police did not enforce their powers then and aren't doing so now - so what's changed? Apart from the fact that we now have more legislation on the books restricting freedom of speech?

Ibrox is a cesspit but, unfortunately, the people who attend are representative of a significant minority of Scottish people. The idea of "Thought Police" was somewhat discredited by George Orwell so we're really talking about preventing people expressing their views rather than having them. Where should we make expressing "offensive" views unacceptable - in people's homes, in private conversations or only where others are able to be "offended"?

Do we really want to have some sort of standing committee making judgements all the time on whether or not the latest song/poem/statement/slogan etc is "offensive"? It's all very well pointing out one or two clearly offensive songs at Ibrox but making laws is not as simple as that and requires more detailed thought about how it would be put into practice and its impact on freedom of speech. Both of these are lacking in our legislation IMHO.

One person's "expression of their historical identity" is another person's "offensive" chant. Surely "Flower of Scotland" is anti-English and "God Save the Queen" anti-Scottish?

The issue is so complex that common sense needs to prevail. No-one should have to suffer this sort of sectarian bile at work or at school etc. These are places people must attend. Hibernian supporters do not have to attend Ibrox or have the volume turned up on their televisions if watching the game at home and it is not a significant infringement of their civil rights having to avoid such things.

Individual football clubs build their own stadia and pay matchday costs. The practical solution is to allow clubs to protect the interests of their own paying customers by making their own stadium rules and asking police and stewards to enforce them. There is plenty available legislation to facilitate this without the "anti-sectarian" bill and people can simply "vote with their feet".

I would love Rangers fans to stop singing these songs and fans of all clubs to stop making racist and homophobic comments too (both of which are often heard at all football grounds). However, unfortunately, these things are endemic in our society and we are naive if we think we can use Alex Salmond's self-promoting legislation to prevent it.

Luzern67
29-12-2015, 12:14 PM
Right, stop laughing at the back! Some blogger has claimed they were up to their knees in EBT's. It was all a cunning plan to highlight the negative stories from the press about the club.
You couldn't make it up, the most deluded fans I've ever come across

Haymaker
29-12-2015, 12:22 PM
The offensive lines were not sung by the entire Sevco support so they would have appeared muted as they did in the stadium. That so many of their fans chose not to sing those lines suggests there is hope that if the will was their then the fans themselves could police the sectarian lines out of existence.
We did it so it can be done.

Was loud and clear on my Tele, didn't appear muted at all.

AngusHibby
29-12-2015, 12:24 PM
https://www.facebook.com/ibrox.loyal/videos/980295322043428/ (https://www.facebook.com/ibrox.loyal/videos/980295322043428/)

HIBERNIAN-0762
29-12-2015, 12:27 PM
https://www.facebook.com/ibrox.loyal/videos/980295322043428/ (https://www.facebook.com/ibrox.loyal/videos/980295322043428/)

Remarkable filth, GFA will do nothing of course.

Jumbo
29-12-2015, 12:34 PM
Right, stop laughing at the back! Some blogger has claimed they were up to their knees in EBT's. It was all a cunning plan to highlight the negative stories from the press about the club.
You couldn't make it up, the most deluded fans I've ever come across

And apparently Alan Stubbs was just a sad greetin b*****d 😖

Pretty Boy
29-12-2015, 12:36 PM
Off the top of my head yesterday I can remember:

Fathers Advice
The Billy Boys
Derrys Walls
Rule Britannia

None of which have anything to do with a Scottish football team. Add in the additional lyrics to Simply The Best, calling Stubbs a fenian and the wee addition to Fathers Advice about Bobby Sands and you can see the problem.

I'm not 'looking to be offended' which is usually the response with these things but it's just not on and the continuing policy of sweeping it under the carpet is a disgrace.

snooky
29-12-2015, 12:41 PM
:ostrich::ostrich::ostrich::ostrich::ostrich: We never heard a thing. :coffee:

steakbake
29-12-2015, 12:42 PM
Or "party tunes" as Keith Jackson described them.

An absolute disgrace. Nothing will be done because it's seen as just a wee regrettable incident.

Stantons Angel
29-12-2015, 01:00 PM
I serve with black carribean guys.. Who probably have the most racist sense of humour towards themselves. Does that make it ok for me to then sing racist songs because they arnt offended? Its not about caring what they are signing its about standing up for the fact theres no place for it in modern football stadia or civilised society. It may only be a song to most of us but across our country its a pedal for hatred and violence

I agree with your sentiments that there is no place in modern society for this ancient tribalism. However there seems to be no stopping it through the west side of our country. Yesterday that minority as its known numbered 50,000 bigots in the stands at Ibrox.

They are on nationwide TV spilling their venom for all to see and hear. Personally i find it offensive because its so boring and out of date! Playing a game of football is not about religion in any way shape or form. But this bigotry is passed through generation to generation.

Yesterday at Ibrox i witnessed grown men with young children on their shoulders gesticulating and cussing and swearing at us continually throughout the game. It made me wonder just what those wee boys themselves would be like when they are adults? For some of them this is their way of life laid down before them.

Until this vile practice is stopped by the parents of the young it will continue to be carried on to the next generations and the bigotry will continue!

When will these people ever learn that there is NO place for it in modern society. This sort of thing is historical and has to stay in the past where it belongs.
IMO Rangers FC will do nothing about it as they wont want to lose people attending games. They should be made accountable for allowing this sort of thing and do something about it NOW!

21.05.2016
29-12-2015, 01:00 PM
Right, stop laughing at the back! Some blogger has claimed they were up to their knees in EBT's. It was all a cunning plan to highlight the negative stories from the press about the club.
You couldn't make it up, the most deluded fans I've ever come acrossI'm still laughing at the statement :faf:

At first i honestly thought it was a rival fan who had put it together to take the piss!

Utterly pathetic from them. The videos doing the round can clearly make out them singing "fenians". I noticed as well the huns on twitter/facebook getting aggressive to anyone who dare confront their bigotted behaviour. How dare anyone challenge rangers bigotted behaviour, how dare anyone not sweep it under the carpet and pretend nothings happened! :rolleyes:

Scotlands almighty shame. An embarrassment for the whole country.

Luzern67
29-12-2015, 01:40 PM
I'm still laughing at the statement :faf:

At first i honestly thought it was a rival fan who had put it together to take the piss!

Utterly pathetic from them. The videos doing the round can clearly make out them singing "fenians". I noticed as well the huns on twitter/facebook getting aggressive to anyone who dare confront their bigotted behaviour. How dare anyone challenge rangers bigotted behaviour, how dare anyone not sweep it under the carpet and pretend nothings happened! :rolleyes:

Scotlands almighty shame. An embarrassment for the whole country.
Angushibby video, clearly them calling Stubbs a sad fenian *******! On Twitter yesterday Tom English made comment about the sectarian singing, Alastair Forsyth the Scottish golfers defence was I didn't hear you make any comment about Celtic fans yesterday, absolutely pathetic defence of their hymn sheet.

Since90+2
29-12-2015, 01:44 PM
Rangers fans have been keen to label Celtic fans as obsessed with them yet when Rangers fans sectarian singing is challenged what is the first thing they do? Mention Celtic fans.

bigwheel
29-12-2015, 02:01 PM
i notice some of them claiming on twitter that we were signing "Allan Stubbs Fenian Army" and also some IRA related songs....a case of hearing what you want to hear from their narrow minds I guess...

21.05.2016
29-12-2015, 02:14 PM
Angushibby video, clearly them calling Stubbs a sad fenian *******! On Twitter yesterday Tom English made comment about the sectarian singing, Alastair Forsyth the Scottish golfers defence was I didn't hear you make any comment about Celtic fans yesterday, absolutely pathetic defence of their hymn sheet.

Thats always there first point of call when confronted with their sectarianism - point to celtic. They seem to think sectarian singing is ok because celtic do it too. They sound like pathetic schoolkids in the playground "oh but but he did it too!":dummytit:

steakbake
29-12-2015, 02:15 PM
Angushibby video, clearly them calling Stubbs a sad fenian *******! On Twitter yesterday Tom English made comment about the sectarian singing, Alastair Forsyth the Scottish golfers defence was I didn't hear you make any comment about Celtic fans yesterday, absolutely pathetic defence of their hymn sheet.

Ewan Murray
Tom English

What do they have in common? Both pointed out the singing on Twitter last night. Both failed to mention it in their report of events.

Chris MacLaughlin was only interested in talking about the football.

Keith Jackson called it 'party songs'.

This is why nothing will happen. There were thousands singing it last night by all accounts. Thousands. Not a "small minority".

21.05.2016
29-12-2015, 02:17 PM
i notice some of them claiming on twitter that we were signing "Allan Stubbs Fenian Army" and also some IRA related songs....a case of hearing what you want to hear from their narrow minds I guess...

I've been following hibs both home and away all my life and I have never heard our crowd sing IRA songs. This is just typical of rangers fans tryna deflect blame away from themselves and take some kind of moral high ground. They know fine well that was never sung.

matty_f
29-12-2015, 02:20 PM
If they were using the word n***** then it would be a different story. Even p*** or ch***** or Muslim. But fenians, nope.
:top marks

bigwheel
29-12-2015, 02:31 PM
I've been following hibs both home and away all my life and I have never heard our crowd sing IRA songs. This is just typical of rangers fans tryna deflect blame away from themselves and take some kind of moral high ground. They know fine well that was never sung.


I reckon it would be about 1980 the last time there was any Irish oriented songs sung by a Hibs crowd - maybe even earlier...I think those who are bigoted simply hear things they want to hear, rather that what is actually sung. They don't yet realise that it is really only them who care about religion oriented songs.

brog
29-12-2015, 02:39 PM
The sad part is, Sevco really do not have any football songs at all. Watching the Falkirk game recently, as soon as the Bairns scored the opposition fans started singing Derrys Walls! WTF has a song about a 325 year old battle got to do with a football match. In their craven stupidity & absolute ignorance of what the 21st century looks like, these people are really no different in their ideology than the barbaric hordes of ISL. One thing for certain however, ignoring it is not part of the solution.

21.05.2016
29-12-2015, 02:48 PM
I reckon it would be about 1980 the last time there was any Irish oriented songs sung by a Hibs crowd - maybe even earlier...I think those who are bigoted simply hear things they want to hear, rather that what is actually sung. They don't yet realise that it is really only them who care about religion oriented songs.

They know fine well that nothing like that was sung by the hibs fans, its all about trying tar everyone else with the same brush as them.

21.05.2016
29-12-2015, 02:50 PM
The sad part is, Sevco really do not have any football songs at all. Watching the Falkirk game recently, as soon as the Bairns scored the opposition fans started singing Derrys Walls! WTF has a song about a 325 year old battle got to do with a football match. In their craven stupidity & absolute ignorance of what the 21st century looks like, these people are really no different in their ideology than the barbaric hordes of ISL. One thing for certain however, ignoring it is not part of the solution.

Even with their football songs they still always find ways to incorporate a FTP or fenian reference.

silverhibee
29-12-2015, 03:31 PM
A good start would be our own club making a statement on the issue.


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:agree:

Us fans have stuck by this club through bad and really bad, yesterday was a disgrace at Ibrox, the singing, the missiles, liquids being poured over folk from the top tier, this is happening every time away fans attend Ibrox, Morton have spoke about it, Budge has spoke about it, sure there has been more, I hope Ms Dempster follows suit and issues a statement to the press about how we were treated to by the Rangers fans, stewards and Police.

Time for Leeann Dempster to have her say and stand up for us fans that travel to that ground.

But maybe Rod doesn't want her to cause any upset with his other employers at the SFA.

We will wait and see if the club say anything.

silverhibee
29-12-2015, 03:36 PM
There were at least three songs / chants that contained the phrase Fenian B******. As already posted there were thousands singing it. I just find it sad that this sort of behaviour appears to be acceptable in this day and age. Scotland's shame.

I would hazard a guess and say it was about 40,000 that were singing it, just a minority though.

If I were Hibs I would be asking to look at the CCTV from that area, wouldn't surprise me if it doesn't work. :wink:

Did anyone see Glasgow Police with video cameras filming fans yesterday in the ground at the away end.?

silverhibee
29-12-2015, 03:46 PM
The cop out is that the clubs unanimously voted that individual clubs could not be held responsible for the actions of their own fans which to me is totally shameless. For whatever reason the anti sectarian legislation appears not to have worked in that and I am guessing here the judiciary had the opinion it wasn't fit for purpose. What we now have is the vacuum as demonstrated yesterday the fans of the club with the most obvious sectarian issues now feel emboldened to do whatever they want. Back to square one. Shameful from all concerned, a modern society my erse.


Correct. Nothing will change unless fans start holding their own clubs to account.


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Exactly Jim, back to the bad old days, they are now untouchable, there club isn't doing anything about it, the stewards are celebrating goals with the zombies when they score, and as for the Police, gangsters in uniforms who protect the home club, what have the zombies got anything to fear from, no one, as the SFA will do SFA about it.

As you say Ozzy, only clubs can change this, and that means each club standing up for themself's and issuing statements to the press about this outdated behaviour and and calling out the SFA/SPFL to act against them.

Doubt it will happen though.

silverhibee
29-12-2015, 04:01 PM
Is anyone really offended by words !? Which at the end of the day is what this really is. Sticks and stones and all that.

I'm from Irish decent and couldn't care two bits.

Millions of folk, the n word probably being the worse, say that and you will be arrested straight away, these songs/words are against the law, but the law are turning a blind eye to it in Scotland.

If players can be sent out with wee red cards saying, "Stamp out Racism" which really isn't a massive problem in Scotland, then why can't the SFA make wee red cards up with the words "Stamp out Sectarian Abuse" and send the players out every few games with these cards, never happen though.

hibee92
29-12-2015, 04:04 PM
https://www.facebook.com/ibrox.loyal/videos/980295322043428/ (https://www.facebook.com/ibrox.loyal/videos/980295322043428/)

Think this should be saved and forwarded to police scotland and the sfa?

silverhibee
29-12-2015, 04:09 PM
https://www.facebook.com/ibrox.loyal/videos/980295322043428/ (https://www.facebook.com/ibrox.loyal/videos/980295322043428/)

Defo EBT they were singing. :rolleyes:

Ozyhibby
29-12-2015, 04:18 PM
Exactly Jim, back to the bad old days, they are now untouchable, there club isn't doing anything about it, the stewards are celebrating goals with the zombies when they score, and as for the Police, gangsters in uniforms who protect the home club, what have the zombies got anything to fear from, no one, as the SFA will do SFA about it.

As you say Ozzy, only clubs can change this, and that means each club standing up for themself's and issuing statements to the press about this outdated behaviour and and calling out the SFA/SPFL to act against them.

Doubt it will happen though.

Given the near constant sectarian abuse dished out to our manager at his place of work, I expected a statement from Hibs today.


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FranckSuzy
29-12-2015, 04:28 PM
Yesterday was my first game at Ibrox and I'll certainly not be rushing back. I've heard and read all the stories about their fans behaviour and sadly, they weren't an exaggeration.

From the minute we entered the ground, the abuse started and there were many of their fans who probably didn't even see any of the game as they appeared to spend the whole time gesturing/pointing at us, shouting abuse and attempting to get over the 'barrier'. There were children, some of which looked no older than 5 or 6, joining in as well which is a very sad indictment of that mentality.

I also cannot understand why, after being held back for over 20 minutes to allow their fans to disperse, there were Rangers fans milling around outside when we were finally released :confused:

Finally, the almost North Korea-like 'celebrations' were baffling to say the least. The orchestrated fawning, flag waving etc only served to make me feel as if I was watching a film being made or something as it was totally surreal. There were stewards and 'officials' joining in behind the goals as well which, even if it was just to get the atmosphere going, was completely unprofessional. Oh, let's not forget the interviews that were played at half-time also. Utterly cringeworthy, IMHO.

All-in-all, I see Frank Dougan has tweeted he will be taking the situation up with Hibs and for that I can only applaud and support him. Yesterday was like being at a Beamish-style historic re-enactment, but instead of the early 20th century, it was the 16th. Very sad.

Pete
29-12-2015, 05:24 PM
This article appeared in the Herald about a year ago. What I would like to know is, are Hibs in the 5% or the 95%?
----------


In the summer of 2013 Stewart Regan and Campbell Ogilvie, the chief executive and president respectively, told the SFA members that the time had come to copy Fifa and Uefa and introduce "strict liability" on discriminatory behaviour by supporters. In other words, if fans step out of line it is the clubs who pay the penalty, be it via fines, part-closure of grounds, docking of points, whatever. There would be no hiding behind "we did everything we could, it wasn't our fault". The issue was put to a vote at Hampden and the result said it all: only five per cent were in favour of it.

Regan bit his tongue, praised the quality of debate and said clubs did recognise there was a need to do more, but more tellingly he summed it up like this: "It's disappointing because Uefa do this [strict liability] and it works. If clubs are dealt with, and they behave inappropriately again and are dealt with again, there comes a point where fans are spoken to and behaviour improves. The Scottish FA's view is that it should be able to work on a domestic level. However, it was a leap too far for the members. Clubs would have been voting to punish themselves in the event of unacceptable behaviour. So you can see there's a bit of self-interest coming into play. No club wants to sign its own warrant for a sanction." When the SPFL was formed, that same summer, it adopted all of the same rules on "unacceptable conduct" and didn't want to know about strict liability. And so clubs can claim they are taking a stance without the risk of being held accountable.

The end result can be thousands of supporters inside Hampden singing "The Famine Song" and "No Pope of Rome" and a pathetic, watery response from the authorities, as if that is just what happens in 2015 Scotland. There is the Offensive Behaviour at Football Act, of course, but that is ill-conceived and impractical legislation unpopular with lawyers and the police, let alone supporters. There were only 12 arrests for sectarian behaviour at the Old Firm game. The police have said often enough that they will not wade into stands and start arresting dozens of fans for singing, let alone hundreds or thousands.

Earlier this season clubs in England received a letter from the Football Association informing them that "strict liability" was to be introduced there. The FA had been pressurised into that by MPs and campaigners appalled by some racist, homophobic and anti-semitic incidents. There is no evidence that the Scottish Government is inclined lean on the SFA and SPFL in the same way, or that campaigners here will be as successful.

That's a shame, because strict liability and zero tolerance would work. When Rangers or Celtic have been disciplined by Uefa they can't get statements out quickly enough to warn fans and condemn those who embarrass them. When there's an SPFL probe? Barely a word. The ironic thing is that after a stinging initial fine or two, which would force the penny to drop with fans, no club would benefit from a tougher line more than Rangers.


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So, over 90% of the clubs in this country are more worried about upsetting Rangers and Celtic than they are about eradicating sectarianism. There was probably pressure on them from all angles to basically let them off, as there would only really be two clubs seriously hurt by strict liability.

Absolutely infuriating. Rotten from the bottom to the top and I include our own club in that if we are one of the 95%.

Ozyhibby
29-12-2015, 05:25 PM
So, over 90% of the clubs in this country are more worried about upsetting Rangers and Celtic than they are about eradicating sectarianism. There was probably pressure on them from all angles to basically let them off, as there would only really be two clubs seriously hurt by strict liability.

Absolutely infuriating. Rotten from the bottom to the top and I include our own club in that if we are one of the 95%.

Like much of what goes on at Easter road, we don't know what camp the club are in. I was hoping that getting a couple of Fans reps on the board might change that but so far it's not.


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blackpoolhibs
29-12-2015, 05:28 PM
I do have twitter and facebook, but i dont know how to forward these things on. Can someone post their examples onto Stan Collymore, he did create quite a stooshie even down here the last time he was involved in this.

Pete
29-12-2015, 05:40 PM
Like much of what goes on at Easter road, we don't know what camp the club are in. I was hoping that getting a couple of Fans reps on the board might change that but so far it's not.


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To be fair they have probably had other priorities. I'm sure almost all of the fans of all the other clubs would put pressure on their clubs to introduce strict liability if they knew the ins and outs.

The clubs would answer with some crap about other legislation dealing with it but it doesn't work. That's a fact.

Sickening stuff as a solution to the problem has basically been blocked by fear, greed and self interest. I don't trust them to run a whelk stall ethically and it's a shame nobody apart from the supporters can step in.

Edit: it looks like 40 clubs voted against while a grand total of 2 voted for it. Probably Raith Rovers plus one were the only clubs interested in change.

itslegaltender
29-12-2015, 05:56 PM
Suppose because its a new club, the UEFA intervention on the particular song in 2006 doesnt now apply?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/r/rangers/5064472.stm

FranckSuzy
29-12-2015, 07:07 PM
It was mentioned on STV News there that the SFA are to investigate yesterday's events. Maybe there will be some progress after all....

Kojock
29-12-2015, 07:13 PM
It was mentioned on STV News there that the SFA are to investigate yesterday's events. Maybe there will be some progress after all....

Don't hold your breath. They will make up some ridiculous excuse to say that the club can't be held responsible for the action of a few fans.

silverhibee
29-12-2015, 07:13 PM
It was mentioned on STV News there that the SFA are to investigate yesterday's events. Maybe there will be some progress after all....

Just waiting on the match delegates report.

Probably never heard a thing. :rolleyes:

PatHead
29-12-2015, 07:16 PM
Just waiting on the match delegates report.

Probably never heard a thing. :rolleyes:

Too busy singing along themselves to notice. :greengrin

ronaldo7
29-12-2015, 07:16 PM
It was mentioned on STV News there that the SFA are to investigate yesterday's events. Maybe there will be some progress after all....

They're awaiting the match delegates report. The Rangers not offering any word on the subject until they can get the brown paper envelope to him.

marinello59
29-12-2015, 07:17 PM
Don't hold your breath. They will make up some ridiculous excuse to say that the club can't be held responsible for the action of a few fans.

They can if they haven't made moves to stop the songs. It could be argued that King's regime has actually encouraged them by saying several times that they were keen to revive celebrations of the clubs 'traditions.'

Ozyhibby
29-12-2015, 07:26 PM
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/rangers/rangers-could-face-punishment-over-sectarian-song-1-3987210


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Baldy Foghorn
29-12-2015, 07:30 PM
Yesterday was my first game at Ibrox and I'll certainly not be rushing back. I've heard and read all the stories about their fans behaviour and sadly, they weren't an exaggeration.

From the minute we entered the ground, the abuse started and there were many of their fans who probably didn't even see any of the game as they appeared to spend the whole time gesturing/pointing at us, shouting abuse and attempting to get over the 'barrier'. There were children, some of which looked no older than 5 or 6, joining in as well which is a very sad indictment of that mentality.

I also cannot understand why, after being held back for over 20 minutes to allow their fans to disperse, there were Rangers fans milling around outside when we were finally released :confused:

Finally, the almost North Korea-like 'celebrations' were baffling to say the least. The orchestrated fawning, flag waving etc only served to make me feel as if I was watching a film being made or something as it was totally surreal. There were stewards and 'officials' joining in behind the goals as well which, even if it was just to get the atmosphere going, was completely unprofessional. Oh, let's not forget the interviews that were played at half-time also. Utterly cringeworthy, IMHO.

All-in-all, I see Frank Dougan has tweeted he will be taking the situation up with Hibs and for that I can only applaud and support him. Yesterday was like being at a Beamish-style historic re-enactment, but instead of the early 20th century, it was the 16th. Very sad.

It's never changed since I started going to Ibrox from mid-eighties onwards

NORTHERNHIBBY
29-12-2015, 07:36 PM
It was mentioned on STV News there that the SFA are to investigate yesterday's events. Maybe there will be some progress after all....

Lots of use of the word alleged and use of word of minority or section . Also no one from The Rangers available for comment. Ibrox and it's contents are toxic waste ,but I can't see this coming to anything.

brog
29-12-2015, 07:41 PM
It's never changed since I started going to Ibrox from mid-eighties onwards

I haven't been back to Ibrox since a particularly unsavoury incident in 1974 IIRC when Erich scored an og. It's a huge dilemma, leave your team without support or make a statement re our total disdain for these barbarians.

emerald green
29-12-2015, 07:41 PM
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/rangers/rangers-could-face-punishment-over-sectarian-song-1-3987210


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Rangers could face punishment it says in the headline. They wont though. Guaranteed.

Even if that particular club were to be punished in some way (a paltry fine maybe?) it won't eradicate sectarian bigotry in Scotland generally, because it's passed down through the generations in the home.

As the words of the song goes... "My father wore it as a youth in the bygone days of yore".

Ozyhibby
29-12-2015, 07:46 PM
Rangers could face punishment it says in the headline. They wont though. Guaranteed.

Even if that particular club were to be punished in some way (a paltry fine maybe?) it won't eradicate sectarian bigotry in Scotland generally, because it's passed down through the generations in the home.

As the words of the song goes... "My father wore it as a youth in the bygone days of yore".

I disagree. It's disappearing in most other walks of Scottish life, it's the football that keeps it going.


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Onion
29-12-2015, 07:47 PM
Rangers could face punishment it says in the headline. They wont though. Guaranteed.

Even if that particular club were to be punished in some way (a paltry fine maybe?) it won't eradicate sectarian bigotry in Scotland generally, because it's passed down through the generations in the home.

As the words of the song goes... "My father wore it as a youth in the bygone days of yore".

Until the authorities start taking the issue seriously nothing will happen. Point deduction, closure of ground are the kind of actions that would stop this kind of thing in its tracks. Short sharp punishment and it will be a thing of the past - but no.

If the authorities are not part of the solution, they themselves are part of the problem.

pundy man
29-12-2015, 07:49 PM
Yes Frank Dougan posted on Twitter he would take this further.

i sincerely hope the Hibs board act on this not just the singing but the constant throwing of objects all game.



The duty of the Hibs board is to protect the fans home and away as clearly the stewards and police turn a blind eye to all of this.
The board need to make a statement this week they are taking this to the authorities .

We should make a stance also and ban them from next home game at ER.

May cost a lot of money but we need to show the world we don't them anywhere near our club.

CraigHibee
29-12-2015, 07:53 PM
also being reported in the herald and also highlighting the fact they got fined for it previously, dirty hun ****


http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/14172111.SPFL_may_take_action_against_Rangers_over _sectarian_singing

emerald green
29-12-2015, 07:59 PM
I disagree. It's disappearing in most other walks of Scottish life, it's the football that keeps it going.


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I disagree. What evidence do you have to prove that it's disappearing in most other walks of life. What walks of life do you mean? Did you see the size of the turnouts at the Orange Walks this summer? I did, and it didn't look like it was disappearing to me.

The football alone doesn't "keep it going" IMHO. The football is just a convenient outlet for attitudes that are already there and well established. What keeps it going is attitudes and views being passed down through generations of some families, and through groups of men (and women) who share the same views.

Ozyhibby
29-12-2015, 07:59 PM
Until the authorities start taking the issue seriously nothing will happen. Point deduction, closure of ground are the kind of actions that would stop this kind of thing in its tracks. Short sharp punishment and it will be a thing of the past - but no.

If the authorities are not part of the solution, they themselves are part of the problem.

We are the authorities. It's up to decent fans of all clubs to push through strict liability in line with England and UEFA.
We need to know Hibs position. No point is getting all worked up if our own club are enabling them behind our back.


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Pretty Boy
29-12-2015, 08:04 PM
Whether anything actually gets done with regards to a fine or whatever it's good to see their behaviour in the spotlight again. It should continue to be highlighted at every opportunity until the head in the sand routine can't continue any longer.

marinello59
29-12-2015, 08:05 PM
We are the authorities. It's up to decent fans of all clubs to push through strict liability in line with England and UEFA.
We need to know Hibs position. No point is getting all worked up if our own club are enabling them behind our back.


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Hibs may have been reluctant to back strict liability when the refugee song was regularly heard at ER. Hearts would be reluctant as well given their fans occasional singalongasevco sessions. Other clubs will have similar problems. Just playing devils advocate here and pointing out why it will be hard to get clubs to agree to this.

Ozyhibby
29-12-2015, 08:18 PM
Hibs may have been reluctant to back strict liability when the refugee song was regularly heard at ER. Hearts would be reluctant as well given their fans occasional singalongasevco sessions. Other clubs will have similar problems. Just playing devils advocate here and pointing out why it will be hard to get clubs to agree to this.

Refugee song would soon disappear if it started costing us points or money. That's the whole point.


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Barney McGrew
29-12-2015, 08:19 PM
Hibs may have been reluctant to back strict liability when the refugee song was regularly heard at ER. Hearts would be reluctant as well given their fans occasional singalongasevco sessions. Other clubs will have similar problems. Just playing devils advocate here and pointing out why it will be hard to get clubs to agree to this.

I totally agree, the whataboutery that would come from the The Rangers fans would kick into overdrive as they desperately tried to term every song that every other team sings as sectarian as well.

I still find it incredible that they have managed to get 'Hun' lodged (pun intended) as a sectarian term. Bonkers.

emerald green
29-12-2015, 08:20 PM
Hibs may have been reluctant to back strict liability when the refugee song was regularly heard at ER. Hearts would be reluctant as well given their fans occasional singalongasevco sessions. Other clubs will have similar problems. Just playing devils advocate here and pointing out why it will be hard to get clubs to agree to this.

:agree: This is a major obstacle. As the article in The Scotsman states, Scottish football clubs have so far rejected efforts by the SFA to introduce "strict liability" levels of regulation in line with UEFA & FIFA, which would hold clubs wholly accountable for the conduct of their supporters without any form of mitigation.

Sir David Gray
29-12-2015, 08:23 PM
I totally agree, the whataboutery that would come from the The Rangers fans would kick into overdrive as they desperately tried to term every song that every other team sings as sectarian as well.

I still find it incredible that they have managed to get 'Hun' lodged (pun intended) as a sectarian term. Bonkers.

:agree: Mental.

As someone who was raised CoS, I have never been called a "hun" in my life.

Reason?

The word "hun" (at least within Scottish football circles) is reserved solely for the description of fans of Sevco FC and is not a term used to describe Protestants.

It would be an interesting day up in court if I was to ever be charged with a hate crime for using that term. :greengrin

SausageSurprise
29-12-2015, 08:32 PM
Somebody told me that BT turned the volume down during certain lines of songs. If this is true, it's evidence that they are aware of the issue. Is it worthwhile complaining to BT Sport? Imagine they had to inform the SPFL that they would have to stop live broadcasting of Sevco matches. Better still they might threaten to withdraw their contract altogether. That might make the blazers sit up and take action.

It was clearly audible during "cheer up Alan Stubbs"
Just had a thought, has anyone ever thought to or heard of complaints being made to offcom the broadcasting regulators before?

If so what was their response?

Golden Bear
29-12-2015, 08:38 PM
Abuse can take many forms. In the past, the Hibernian mass choirs took great delight in subjecting JJ to allegations that he was an overweight illegitimate gentleman of a maroon persuasion!

Bostonhibby
29-12-2015, 08:41 PM
Abuse can take many forms. In the past, the Hibernian mass choirs took great delight in subjecting JJ to allegations that he was an overweight illegitimate gentleman of a maroon persuasion!

Isn't fair comment still a defence?

OsloHibs
29-12-2015, 10:00 PM
Yesterday was my first game at Ibrox and I'll certainly not be rushing back. I've heard and read all the stories about their fans behaviour and sadly, they weren't an exaggeration.

From the minute we entered the ground, the abuse started and there were many of their fans who probably didn't even see any of the game as they appeared to spend the whole time gesturing/pointing at us, shouting abuse and attempting to get over the 'barrier'. There were children, some of which looked no older than 5 or 6, joining in as well which is a very sad indictment of that mentality.

I also cannot understand why, after being held back for over 20 minutes to allow their fans to disperse, there were Rangers fans milling around outside when we were finally released :confused:

Finally, the almost North Korea-like 'celebrations' were baffling to say the least. The orchestrated fawning, flag waving etc only served to make me feel as if I was watching a film being made or something as it was totally surreal. There were stewards and 'officials' joining in behind the goals as well which, even if it was just to get the atmosphere going, was completely unprofessional. Oh, let's not forget the interviews that were played at half-time also. Utterly cringeworthy, IMHO.

All-in-all, I see Frank Dougan has tweeted he will be taking the situation up with Hibs and for that I can only applaud and support him. Yesterday was like being at a Beamish-style historic re-enactment, but instead of the early 20th century, it was the 16th. Very sad.

How sad that life as an away fan at Ibrox never changes.
I got spat on the time I was there. It was so horrific as a young female to experience this. When I explain this is 'acceptable' in Scottish football to Norwegian friends they are equally horrified.

Ozyhibby
29-12-2015, 10:07 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-32934820


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SausageSurprise
29-12-2015, 10:13 PM
http://m.heraldscotland.com/sport/14172111.SPFL_may_take_action_against_Rangers_over _sectarian_singing/

No doubt it's all just propaganda. The authorities have been making noises for years and years. It's just a "look at us, we're trying"

GreenOnions
30-12-2015, 12:18 AM
:agree: Mental.

As someone who was raised CoS, I have never been called a "hun" in my life.

Reason?

The word "hun" (at least within Scottish football circles) is reserved solely for the description of fans of Sevco FC and is not a term used to describe Protestants.

It would be an interesting day up in court if I was to ever be charged with a hate crime for using that term. :greengrin

Well- I think one of the main underlying tenets of discrimination law is that it's how the "victim" is affected that matters more than what the "perpetrator" intended. So ................... not really a particularly interesting day in court :duck:

Sir David Gray
30-12-2015, 12:24 AM
Well- I think one of the main underlying tenets of discrimination law is that it's how the "victim" is affected that matters more than what the "perpetrator" intended. So ................... not really a particularly interesting day in court :duck:

You don't think it would be interesting for a Protestant to be charged with a supposedly anti-Protestant hate crime and to see how the case was played out in court?

GreenOnions
30-12-2015, 12:38 AM
You don't think it would be interesting for a Protestant to be charged with a supposedly anti-Protestant hate crime and to see how the case was played out in court?

I know what you're saying and sorry - I was just being flippant really. You're right.

This whole issue just gets my goat though. I posted my views on this earlier in the thread so won't repeat them. However, IMHO the anti-sectarian legislation should be repealed as it is nothing but a piece of gesture politics that has had little or no impact other than to confuse people further regarding what can and can't be said.

Despite the vile nature of sectarian abuse I also think the reactions from the majority on this thread seem to exhibit a little too much "victim mentality". Whilst the outrage is understandable - this type of response will get us nowhere.

As a football club we ought to be doing two things: Firstly - we should listen to our own supporters who pay the club's bills and protect them and their youngsters from any sectarian behaviours at Easter Road using effective stewarding and policing; secondly - we should stop bleating and being victims and ignore what is sung inside Ibrox by TRFC supporters. We should use it as motivation to defeat them on the park. That will silence them more quickly than anything.

BH Hibs
30-12-2015, 12:40 AM
Why do they have to wait until a match delegate report when they have posted themselves signing these songs on social media. The SFA should come out stating this has gone on long enough we've given you the chance to sort it out and we are now imposing strict liability instead of offering it as the SPFL as a body or clubs are not capable of sorting it.

Mibbes Aye
30-12-2015, 12:48 AM
Hibs may have been reluctant to back strict liability when the refugee song was regularly heard at ER. Hearts would be reluctant as well given their fans occasional singalongasevco sessions. Other clubs will have similar problems. Just playing devils advocate here and pointing out why it will be hard to get clubs to agree to this.


Refugee song would soon disappear if it started costing us points or money. That's the whole point.


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I totally agree, the whataboutery that would come from the The Rangers fans would kick into overdrive as they desperately tried to term every song that every other team sings as sectarian as well.

I still find it incredible that they have managed to get 'Hun' lodged (pun intended) as a sectarian term. Bonkers.


:agree: This is a major obstacle. As the article in The Scotsman states, Scottish football clubs have so far rejected efforts by the SFA to introduce "strict liability" levels of regulation in line with UEFA & FIFA, which would hold clubs wholly accountable for the conduct of their supporters without any form of mitigation.

So, if it were to happen, we are all held accountable and Hibs will suffer if Hibs fans do wrong, but that's true for every club?

Sounds like a no-brainer, a chance to make Scotland a slightly better place for us, our children and everyone else.

And as a consequence we all take a bit of personal responsibility for how we behave and what we tolerate from those who are intolerant.

It would be good if the club could take a lead on pushing for strict liability.

Our history combines innovation with promoting tolerance. Let's add to that.

WhileTheChief..
30-12-2015, 01:02 AM
Bet this wouldn't have reached 4 pages if we had won the game.

Mountain / mole hill.

Mibbes Aye
30-12-2015, 01:14 AM
Bet this wouldn't have reached 4 pages if we had won the game.

Mountain / mole hill.

You know those arcade games with the two pence pieces? If you play them, nothing happens forever, but gradually, very gradually something does happen, though it takes ages and you're probably long gone by the time it does?

That's what tackling rubbish like this is. It takes forever and it's tiny gains every time but at some point the penny drops (or the two pence pieces) and we take a massive step forward as a society. Threads like this are a tiny, tiny part of pushing it on.

It's absolutely ridiculous that we live in a world where people feel it's worthwhile to belt out songs about people being Fenian *******s, just because they can.

We can be better than this. We should be better than this.

WhileTheChief..
30-12-2015, 01:40 AM
Can't disagree with what you've said but society has really moved on leaps and bounds in the last 20 years with regards this issue. Do deny that would be churlish.

Too often on these forums it is used as point scoring. A fake outrage if you like. People feel the need to be offended and comment on it so that everyone else agrees with them.

It's not just this issue, it's everything that surrounds Hibs. Folk on here 'hate' journalists, ex players, the media in general, the SFA/SPFL. I just don't get it.

Read some of the other threads on here. Some of the comments about players or Rangers fans or whatever are just as bad as the stuff that we accuse them of.

Thankfully most fans can support their team without hating everyone else.

Mibbes Aye
30-12-2015, 02:00 AM
Can't disagree with what you've said but society has really moved on leaps and bounds in the last 20 years with regards this issue. Do deny that would be churlish.

Too often on these forums it is used as point scoring. A fake outrage if you like. People feel the need to be offended and comment on it so that everyone else agrees with them.

It's not just this issue, it's everything that surrounds Hibs. Folk on here 'hate' journalists, ex players, the media in general, the SFA/SPFL. I just don't get it.

Read some of the other threads on here. Some of the comments about players or Rangers fans or whatever are just as bad as the stuff that we accuse them of.

Thankfully most fans can support their team without hating everyone else.

I agree with you WTC.

Forums like this can be a real power for good, a really strong tool for good as the achievements of this site have shown, but they also give the space that can bring out the worst in some and reduce arguments to something very binary. Peevemor makes the point about a site like this being a bit like your 'local' and it rings true on a consistent basis. It's a varied mix, some folk we like, some we won't.

I don't get or like the use of 'hate' either but that chimes with the previous statement - the doors are open and when people are hetted up or have had a drink or whatever then you will get all sorts of comments. It's a strong, strong word though, used too readily IMO.

Getting back to the point about the singing and the attitudes, I don't think that being identified as a Catholic would stand against me, career-wise, the way it would have done in years gone by but the fact that it can be used as an insult isn't right in the 21st century, it's embarrassing. It's not hurtful, it's just shameful - what level of numptyness are we prepared to tolerate in our citizenry? :greengrin

Serious point is, it only gets better if we always make it clear that we aren't prepared to put up with a few thousand people shouting about taigs or fenians or ******s or pakis, just because they think they can.

That's maybe boring and PC and painstaking but it's what helps shift the stain. Look at it like a blot on your clothing, you've just got to keep scrubbing away and eventually it will be gone :greengrin

ehf
30-12-2015, 02:24 AM
Can't disagree with what you've said but society has really moved on leaps and bounds in the last 20 years with regards this issue. Do deny that would be churlish.

Too often on these forums it is used as point scoring. A fake outrage if you like. People feel the need to be offended and comment on it so that everyone else agrees with them.

It's not just this issue, it's everything that surrounds Hibs. Folk on here 'hate' journalists, ex players, the media in general, the SFA/SPFL. I just don't get it.

Read some of the other threads on here. Some of the comments about players or Rangers fans or whatever are just as bad as the stuff that we accuse them of.

Thankfully most fans can support their team without hating everyone else.

Best post on here ever.

HoboHarry
30-12-2015, 03:16 AM
Can't disagree with what you've said but society has really moved on leaps and bounds in the last 20 years with regards this issue. Do deny that would be churlish.

Too often on these forums it is used as point scoring. A fake outrage if you like. People feel the need to be offended and comment on it so that everyone else agrees with them.

It's not just this issue, it's everything that surrounds Hibs. Folk on here 'hate' journalists, ex players, the media in general, the SFA/SPFL. I just don't get it.

Read some of the other threads on here. Some of the comments about players or Rangers fans or whatever are just as bad as the stuff that we accuse them of.

Thankfully most fans can support their team without hating everyone else.
Did you ever post on the Scotsman forums with username initials of PP and latterly HL? I hope I am right...........

WhileTheChief..
30-12-2015, 03:43 AM
Nope, never posted on the Scotsman forum under any name.

HoboHarry
30-12-2015, 03:49 AM
Nope, never posted on the Scotsman forum under any name.

Ok. Fair enough, would have been nice to have caught up and I was going by your user name....

Ozyhibby
30-12-2015, 05:45 AM
Can't disagree with what you've said but society has really moved on leaps and bounds in the last 20 years with regards this issue. Do deny that would be churlish.

Too often on these forums it is used as point scoring. A fake outrage if you like. People feel the need to be offended and comment on it so that everyone else agrees with them.

It's not just this issue, it's everything that surrounds Hibs. Folk on here 'hate' journalists, ex players, the media in general, the SFA/SPFL. I just don't get it.

Read some of the other threads on here. Some of the comments about players or Rangers fans or whatever are just as bad as the stuff that we accuse them of.

Thankfully most fans can support their team without hating everyone else.

First of all, I'm not outraged at all, fake or otherwise. I wasn't offended on Sunday personally (I'm an atheist) and I certainly don't post on here in the hope someone agrees with me.
I don't blame the media, ex players etc. I'm very clear that this starts with us. It's up to us to hold ourselves and our own club to account. I've pointed out a few times that complaining about the SFA/SPFL is pointless as they are membership organisations and we are part of it. We have to change it from within.
I do think the club needs to act though.
On Monday, one of our employees was subjected to sectarian abuse in his place of work. The club have a duty of care here. Can Hibs say they have done all they can to prevent this? I don't think so.



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Pete
30-12-2015, 07:04 AM
Can't disagree with what you've said but society has really moved on leaps and bounds in the last 20 years with regards this issue. Do deny that would be churlish.

Too often on these forums it is used as point scoring. A fake outrage if you like. People feel the need to be offended and comment on it so that everyone else agrees with them.

It's not just this issue, it's everything that surrounds Hibs. Folk on here 'hate' journalists, ex players, the media in general, the SFA/SPFL. I just don't get it.

Read some of the other threads on here. Some of the comments about players or Rangers fans or whatever are just as bad as the stuff that we accuse them of.

Thankfully most fans can support their team without hating everyone else.

I agree with your sentiments regarding Internet forums but I'm afraid this is totally the wrong thread to make it on.

As for you original comment about mountains and molehills, it's this kind of trivialisation that is keeping it alive. To be honest I'd rather have "fake" outrage that made a difference than passive attitudes towards something that is a very real problem.

Lucius Apuleius
30-12-2015, 07:47 AM
I might be a Fenian B, but at least I am a Proddy Fenian B is my usual reply to them.

Jim44
30-12-2015, 08:51 AM
Stubbs says, while he doesn't like this side of football, it doesn't bother him as it's just a 'perverted and misguided demonstration of admiration.' Aye, right Alan.

Houchy
30-12-2015, 09:32 AM
It doesn't actually offend me per se, but I find it annoying that it is illegal and nothing is done about it week after week, year after year.

Totally agree with this. What really p1sses me off is the bottles getting thrown, clearly with the intent to cause serious injury. If you complain, your more likely to get lifted than the perpetrator, and there's nothing you can do about it. If you ask for their number, you'll get lifted and if you ask for a supervisor, you get the same response. Unbelievable!

liamh2202
30-12-2015, 09:49 AM
I might be a Fenian B, but at least I am a Proddy Fenian B is my usual reply to them.

Haha last time i was at ibrox one shouted at me.. Rule brittania ya *******...... He was confused when i said cheers mate howd u know im in the navy.

Moulin Yarns
30-12-2015, 11:02 AM
The Scottish Government produced a document called"Bridges and Barriers" a Glossary of Terms: A Practitioners Guide to Understanding Sectarian language

Under Hun it says

Hun

The Huns were a nomadic people or peoples, who are known to have lived in Eastern Europe, the Caucasus and Central Asia between the 1st Century AD and the 7th Century. They formed a unified empire under Attila the Hun. No known accounts describe the Huns as attractive either morally or in appearance, as they were known to have burned and pillaged their way across Eastern Europe and Central Asia.

The term "Hun" was later used for the Germans by British propaganda during the First World War. The comparison was helped by the spiked Pickelhaube helmet worn by German forces and the unflattering and fear-inspiring comparison between Germany and the Huns during war time.

The term Hun is also a reference to Queen Elizabeth II’s heritage as she has German ancestry and is the head of state and therefore the head of the Protestant Church of England.

A derogatory name used to describe Rangers F.C often when referring to its supporters.




So, they like to proclaim their love of the monarch, a Hun, therefore they themselves are Huns. The Government says so!!

Moulin Yarns
30-12-2015, 11:05 AM
This is a good take on the singing.

http://www.scotzine.com/2015/12/mark-warburton-hails-magnificent-rangers-support-despite-sectarian-songbook/

Colr
30-12-2015, 11:09 AM
I agree with the suggestion above that there should be a "Stamp Sectarianism Out of Football," campaign in Scotland similar to the scheme related to racism. It might have broader societal benefits as well.

bigwheel
30-12-2015, 11:11 AM
I agree with the suggestion above that there should be a "Stamp Sectarianism Out of Football," campaign in Scotland similar to the scheme related to racism. It might have broader societal benefits as well.


I'd support such a scheme. It would need some new thinking to succeed. Unfortunately, the reality is that for many Rangers fans it is part of their social identity. Without it, they wouldn't feel as connected to the football club as they do now...so they will resist it.

Colr
30-12-2015, 11:39 AM
I'd support such a scheme. It would need some new thinking to succeed. Unfortunately, the reality is that for many Rangers fans it is part of their social identity. Without it, they wouldn't feel as connected to the football club as they do now...so they will resist it.

Would the Scottish Government support it?

NAE NOOKIE
30-12-2015, 12:01 PM
I have some sympathy with those of us who take the point of view that the disgust on here at the sectarian goings on at Ibrox on Monday, and lets face it just about every other time we visit that ground, is an affectation. In fact so much so, that the next time somebody near to me at ER shouts 'try harder Malonga ya black *******' I think I'll adopt the same philosophy and just ignore it ..... after all I'm not black so why should it bother me?

So lets look at the throwing of objects and spitting at our fans instead. This is reported as happening by Hibs fans every time we go to Ibrox and its not just us as the recent incident with Morton proves. Whatever else is wrong at that club there can be no doubt that their segregation measures are totally inadequate, as is their stewarding ....... my mates partner cant get into the FF lower without her handbag being inspected, so how can a Buckfast bottle be taken into Ibrox? .... especially at what will be the most volatile part of the ground.

I would agree that as a club Hibs can do little about sectarianism without it being as part of a bigger drive by Scottish football as a whole. But when it comes to the physical wellbeing of our supporters at an away ground that's different. Unfortunately ( or should that be fortunately ) it's unlikely we will play at Ibrox again this season, but the next time we do Hibs should insist on inspecting the area that will contain our support and make it clear to the The Rangers that at least one board member will be located there during the game, with instructions to report to the board how our fans were treated with a view to further action.

It should also be made clear by Hibs that if the report is less than satisfactory the club will consider refusing to accept any ticket allocation for future games at Ibrox involving The Rangers until the segregation is improved and that we will very publicly say why.

As far as I'm aware both Hibs and Sevco use G4S stewards. Perhaps its time that Hibs made clear to that company that if they wish us to continue using their services at Easter Road the conduct of their employees at away grounds towards our supporters will be given serious consideration before any new contract is entered into.

There is plenty of anecdotal evidence that the G4S stewards at Ibrox treat our fans like ****. In my opinion if that company expect to get business from Hibs their employees should also have a duty of care to the fans of clubs they work for at every ground, its unacceptable that the Hibs fans at Ibrox appear to be subjected to objects being thrown at them from above and either side and unchecked personal verbal abuse by home fans while employees of a firm we give our business to stand back and do nothing.

hibbysam
30-12-2015, 12:15 PM
I have some sympathy with those of us who take the point of view that the disgust on here at the sectarian goings on at Ibrox on Monday, and lets face it just about every other time we visit that ground, is an affectation. In fact so much so, that the next time somebody near to me at ER shouts 'try harder Malonga ya black *******' I think I'll adopt the same philosophy and just ignore it ..... after all I'm not black so why should it bother me?

So lets look at the throwing of objects and spitting at our fans instead. This is reported as happening by Hibs fans every time we go to Ibrox and its not just us as the recent incident with Morton proves. Whatever else is wrong at that club there can be no doubt that their segregation measures are totally inadequate, as is their stewarding ....... my mates partner cant get into the FF lower without her handbag being inspected, so how can a Buckfast bottle be taken into Ibrox? .... especially at what will be the most volatile part of the ground.

I would agree that as a club Hibs can do little about sectarianism without it being as part of a bigger drive by Scottish football as a whole. But when it comes to the physical wellbeing of our supporters at an away ground that's different. Unfortunately ( or should that be fortunately ) it's unlikely we will play at Ibrox again this season, but the next time we do Hibs should insist on inspecting the area that will contain our support and make it clear to the The Rangers that at least one board member will be located there during the game, with instructions to report to the board how our fans were treated with a view to further action.

It should also be made clear by Hibs that if the report is less than satisfactory the club will consider refusing to accept any ticket allocation for future games at Ibrox involving The Rangers until the segregation is improved and that we will very publicly say why.

As far as I'm aware both Hibs and Sevco use G4S stewards. Perhaps its time that Hibs made clear to that company that if they wish us to continue using their services at Easter Road the conduct of their employees at away grounds towards our supporters will be given serious consideration before any new contract is entered into.

There is plenty of anecdotal evidence that the G4S stewards at Ibrox treat our fans like ****. In my opinion if that company expect to get business from Hibs their employees should also have a duty of care to the fans of clubs they work for at every ground, its unacceptable that the Hibs fans at Ibrox appear to be subjected to objects being thrown at them from above and either side and unchecked personal verbal abuse by home fans while employees of a firm we give our business to stand back and do nothing.

Agree with most, one little thing however, I noticed is Rangers do not use G4S, they use Garrion.

Other thing I noticed when entering the ground is there were 0 police officers at the home gates, and 3 police officers at the away turnstiles chatting to each other and did not even look at us as we walked past, normally have to walk through 10+ officers while getting searched on the way.

Brizo
30-12-2015, 12:51 PM
This is a good take on the singing.

http://www.scotzine.com/2015/12/mark-warburton-hails-magnificent-rangers-support-despite-sectarian-songbook/

Excellent article , one you'll never see in the Scottish tabloids who put circulation before sectarianism.

The Rangers fans behaviour wasn't mentioned at all on the Radio Scotland fitba programme last night but they managed to devote time to a total non story about a link up between Dundee Utd and Shaktar Donestk (sp) which even those discussing it admitted was a non story. Priorities eh ?

Be interesting to hear if English attempts to raise it next time he is on ? No doubt wee Chick, Jackson and the rest of the bigot apologists will talk it down as " the minority, things are getting better, its societies problem" blah blah

Tom Hart RIP
30-12-2015, 12:54 PM
Old guy who used to sit in front of me in the FF lower hated Rangers and every time they started singing 'their' songs he would stand up and shout "loyalists? When war broke out they all joined the shipyards"

Onion
30-12-2015, 01:33 PM
I'd support such a scheme. It would need some new thinking to succeed. Unfortunately, the reality is that for many Rangers fans it is part of their social identity. Without it, they wouldn't feel as connected to the football club as they do now...so they will resist it.

:agree: Celtic and The Rangers know full well that without sectarianism and bigotry their crowds would be a fraction of what they are. They have too much to lose financially from the eradication of bigotry, as it forms a core part of their "customer proposition". The football authorities, media and politicians know this, hence their reluctance to tackle the issue head on. In 2015, it is Scotland's Shame and shows what a backward nation we still are.

IMO it will take outside action from the UK Government and/or UEFA to tackle the problem. The problem is obvious, the solution is simple.

blackpoolhibs
30-12-2015, 01:41 PM
:agree: Celtic and The Rangers know full well that without sectarianism and bigotry their crowds would be a fraction of what they are. They have too much to lose financially from the eradication of bigotry, as it forms a core part of their "customer proposition". The football authorities, media and politicians know this, hence their reluctance to tackle the issue head on. In 2015, it is Scotland's Shame and shows what a backward nation we still are.

IMO it will take outside action from the UK Government and/or UEFA to tackle the problem. The problem is obvious, the solution is simple.


That's it in a nutshell, there is no desire by those who are in charge in our country to rid itself of this. Probably because some of those in charge are ****ting themselves about repercussions, and some are in the bigots pockets taking the dirty pound.

I mean what other country would let the clubs with the biggest problem sort things themselves?

It's a big fat cop out.

As you say outside action is needed. :agree:

bigwheel
30-12-2015, 01:45 PM
:agree: Celtic and The Rangers know full well that without sectarianism and bigotry their crowds would be a fraction of what they are. They have too much to lose financially from the eradication of bigotry, as it forms a core part of their "customer proposition". The football authorities, media and politicians know this, hence their reluctance to tackle the issue head on. In 2015, it is Scotland's Shame and shows what a backward nation we still are.

IMO it will take outside action from the UK Government and/or UEFA to tackle the problem. The problem is obvious, the solution is simple.


I no longer put Celtic and Rangers in the same camp on this topic. I've not heard a religious oriented song from Celtic Fans in years. I've heard lots of protest songs, and freedom for Ireland songs..I've even heard "up the RA" type chants on occasions - not for a long time at parkhead on that one - I have to say - seems to be more their away support. None of these are sectarian though. Even the very difficult topic of songs in support of the IRA are not religious, many protestants in Ireland supported their cause..and were active.

I stand up to be corrected but I would say today, and in recent times, chants and songs of sectarian nature are almost exclusively a Rangers thing.

lucky
30-12-2015, 01:46 PM
Whilst not trying to play down sectarian singing by Rangers supporters I don't remember many condemning Riordan or Griffthis getting a hard time on here after their refugee song. In fact on both occasions Hibs fans joined in.

Time for all forms of bigotry to be stamped out at football and the pubs/clubs before and after games

CropleyWasGod
30-12-2015, 01:47 PM
I no longer put Celtic and Rangers in the same camp on this topic. I've not heard a religious oriented song from Celtic Fans in years. I've heard lots of protest songs, and freedom for Ireland songs..I've even heard "up the RA" type chants on occasions - not for a long time at parkhead on that one - I have to say - seems to be more their away support. None of these are sectarian though. Even the very difficult topic of songs in support of the IRA are not religious, many protestants in Ireland supported their cause..and were active.

I stand up to be corrected but I would say today, and in recent times, chants and songs of sectarian nature are almost exclusively a Rangers thing.

That's no excuse for the Celtic songs, though. I have asked this question many times, and have yet to hear a satisfactory answer....

"Why sing about the politics and history of a foreign country at a football match? "

liamh2202
30-12-2015, 01:47 PM
I no longer put Celtic and Rangers in the same camp on this topic. I've not heard a religious oriented song from Celtic Fans in years. I've heard lots of protest songs, and freedom for Ireland songs..I've even heard "up the RA" type chants on occasions - not for a long time at parkhead on that one - I have to say - seems to be more their away support. None of these are sectarian though. Even the very difficult topic of songs in support of the IRA are not religious, many protestants in Ireland supported their cause..and were active.

I stand up to be corrected but I would say today, and in recent times, chants and songs of sectarian nature are almost exclusively a Rangers thing.

Stand corrected mate.... Soldier song, fields of anthery , every week without fail.

Two cheeks one arse

bigwheel
30-12-2015, 01:49 PM
Stand corrected mate.... Soldier song, fields of anthery , every week without fail.

Two cheeks one arse


one is an anthem for ireland and one is about freedom...

Moulin Yarns
30-12-2015, 01:50 PM
Stand corrected mate.... Soldier song, fields of anthery , every week without fail.

Two cheeks one arse

One is a national anthem and the other a folk song. Neither glory the IRA.



A Soldiers’ Song
(Amhrán na bhFiann)

The Irish National Anthem. The "Soldiers' Song" was widely, if unofficially, sung by nationalists and finally adopted as the National Anthem in 1926.






Fields of Athenry

An Irish folk ballad set during the Great Irish Famine (1845–1850) about a fictional man who has been sentenced to transportation to Botany Bay, Australia, for stealing food for his starving family. It is a widely known and popular anthem for Irish sports supporters including Celtic Football Club.

CropleyWasGod
30-12-2015, 01:52 PM
one is an anthem for ireland and one is about freedom...

So why sing about them at a Scottish football match?

bigwheel
30-12-2015, 01:54 PM
So why sing about them at a Scottish football match?


I'm sure they would tell you it's about their heritage, causes they care about..I honestly don't know..

But that's not the point that I was making - neither are sectarian or bigoted.

Moulin Yarns
30-12-2015, 01:57 PM
So why sing about them at a Scottish football match?

The same could be said about these?



God Save the Queen

Is the de facto British national anthem and also has this role in some British territories. It is sometimes sung by Loyalists (and fans of Rangers Football Club to reflect their British heritage).







Rule, Britannia!

A British patriotic song strongly associated with the Royal Navy, but also used by the British Army. It has been adopted by groups of fans of Rangers Football Club.

CropleyWasGod
30-12-2015, 01:58 PM
I'm sure they would tell you it's about their heritage, causes they care about..I honestly don't know..

But that's not the point that I was making - neither are sectarian or bigoted.

I don't think you can separate the two. Because of the "whataboutery" that goes on, one lot feed off the other. I'm willing to bet that one side really doesn't have much clue about the politics they sing about, and the other hasn't been in a church for a while.

The respective ignorance is the common theme here, and trying to label it sectarian or otherwise will not, of itself, help to eradicate it.

matty_f
30-12-2015, 01:59 PM
The same could be said about these?



God Save the Queen
Is the de facto British national anthem and also has this role in some British territories. It is sometimes sung by Loyalists (and fans of Rangers Football Club to reflect their British heritage).






Rule, Britannia!
A British patriotic song strongly associated with the Royal Navy, but also used by the British Army. It has been adopted by groups of fans of Rangers Football Club.




I don't think either of those are sectarian at all. Would make the BBC's Last Night of the Proms a fairly controversial show if they were!

bigwheel
30-12-2015, 02:02 PM
I don't think you can separate the two. Because of the "whataboutery" that goes on, one lot feed off the other. I'm willing to bet that one side really doesn't have much clue about the politics they sing about, and the other hasn't been in a church for a while.

The respective ignorance is the common theme here, and trying to label it sectarian or otherwise will not, of itself, help to eradicate it.

Whilst on broad topics I would tend to agree with you - On Sectarian issues I think you can separate the two. Only one sings songs of a sectarian nature.

bigwheel
30-12-2015, 02:02 PM
I don't think either of those are sectarian at all. Would make the BBC's Last Night of the Proms a fairly controversial show if they were!


lol true - agree with that

NAE NOOKIE
30-12-2015, 02:03 PM
Agree with most, one little thing however, I noticed is Rangers do not use G4S, they use Garrion.

Other thing I noticed when entering the ground is there were 0 police officers at the home gates, and 3 police officers at the away turnstiles chatting to each other and did not even look at us as we walked past, normally have to walk through 10+ officers while getting searched on the way.

I stand corrected, I was aware of Garrion but thought they were part of G4S ..... apologies to G4S.

Perhaps Hibs should ( after sufficient evidence gathering ) write to Garrion's directors and offer to make public our displeasure at their utter failure to do their job.

Moulin Yarns
30-12-2015, 02:04 PM
I don't think either of those are sectarian at all. Would make the BBC's Last Night of the Proms a fairly controversial show if they were!

Matty, read the context. The question CWG raised was to do with the relevance of songs sung by lesser greens and I said the same goes for these. NONE of the 4 songs are, in themselves, offensive or sectarian, but when sung by their respective sets of fans they have the same effect.

bigwheel
30-12-2015, 02:07 PM
Matty, read the context. The question CWG raised was to do with the relevance of songs sung by lesser greens and I said the same goes for these. NONE of the 4 songs are, in themselves, offensive or sectarian, but when sung by their respective sets of fans they have the same effect.


they can sing them as much as they want..neither are illegal or offensive - they may wind some people up, but so do many football songs...

CropleyWasGod
30-12-2015, 02:09 PM
Whilst on broad topics I would tend to agree with you - On Sectarian issues I think you can separate the two. Only one sings songs of a sectarian nature.

My point, though, is that one should ignore the labels. Both sides sing their songs because the other side do.

IMHO, the sectarianism (or not) is not the issue. It's the constant playground-nonsense that allows songs which have go f-all to do with Scottish fitba to be sung.

NAE NOOKIE
30-12-2015, 02:11 PM
I don't think either of those are sectarian at all. Would make the BBC's Last Night of the Proms a fairly controversial show if they were!

Agreed ........ Prepare to open any stand against sectarianism to utter and deserved ridicule if you try to use GSTQ or Rule Britannia as ammunition in your argument, or the union flag for that matter.

Ozyhibby
30-12-2015, 02:14 PM
That's no excuse for the Celtic songs, though. I have asked this question many times, and have yet to hear a satisfactory answer....

"Why sing about the politics and history of a foreign country at a football match? "

It's not a foreign country, I think that's the point.


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CropleyWasGod
30-12-2015, 02:17 PM
It's not a foreign country, I think that's the point.


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That point is arguable. ROI?

Even if we delete the word "foreign", why sing songs about politics or history at a football match?

liamh2202
30-12-2015, 02:19 PM
one is an anthem for ireland and one is about freedom...

And that makes ot right for it to be sung at the football?. It is sung to create a religious divide

bigwheel
30-12-2015, 02:22 PM
That's no excuse for the Celtic songs, though. I have asked this question many times, and have yet to hear a satisfactory answer....

"Why sing about the politics and history of a foreign country at a football match? "

To be honest , I'm not a big believer in restricting what fans sing. They more hate in the songs, the more it reflects on themselves tbh..

It's clear there is a deep cultural connection between many Celtic fans and their Irish heritage. If they want to chant about it - it doesn't offend me. As there is between Rangers and loyalist ideals...that's up to them...I can understand why bigoted songs sung by Rangers fans offend some. I've not yet heard an equivalent from Celtic in recent years.

Ozyhibby
30-12-2015, 02:25 PM
That point is arguable. ROI?

Even if we delete the word "foreign", why sing songs about politics or history at a football match?

I agree with you're point.


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Ozyhibby
30-12-2015, 02:29 PM
I have no probs with Rule Britannia, God save the Queen, Fields of Athenry etc. They are a bit strange right enough.
But songs threatening violence against a religious group should be outlawed by our clubs.


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Ozyhibby
30-12-2015, 03:03 PM
http://videocelts.com/2015/12/blogs/latest-news/silent-shame-of-bbc-scotland


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superfurryhibby
30-12-2015, 03:19 PM
Interesting debate. I personally am way less bothered by the billy boys, the sash etc than I am about the deeper, entrenched sectarianism thatappears acceptable amongst many west of Scotland institutions. The irony of a Labour Party that is divided on religious grounds is ugly and preposterous, yet it persists.

I'm pretty sure we could apply this rationale to other prominent organisations, The Police spring to mind. How many Catholics make the higher echelons in this country.

I sometimes think football is too soft a target and deflects from a bigger picture. We could probably throw in religious schools into the mix as a factor also.

I've been working in the Weedge these past two years, let's say it has been a bit of a culture shock at times. Not sure we Edinburghers fully appreciate what is considered "normal" in respect of sectarianism, sport and society for those who live in the west.

Smartie
30-12-2015, 03:58 PM
Interesting debate. I personally am way less bothered by the billy boys, the sash etc than I am about the deeper, entrenched sectarianism thatappears acceptable amongst many west of Scotland institutions. The irony of a Labour Party that is divided on religious grounds is ugly and preposterous, yet it persists.

I'm pretty sure we could apply this rationale to other prominent organisations, The Police spring to mind. How many Catholics make the higher echelons in this country.

I sometimes think football is too soft a target and deflects from a bigger picture. We could probably throw in religious schools into the mix as a factor also.

I've been working in the Weedge these past two years, let's say it has been a bit of a culture shock at times. Not sure we Edinburghers fully appreciate what is considered "normal" in respect of sectarianism, sport and society for those who live in the west.

There are hotspots throughout other parts the country (parts of Fife, West Lothian, Ayrshire etc) but it really is horrendous through there.

These aren't new issues and cities such as Liverpool and Manchester had similar problems 100 years or so ago as places struggled to cope with the influx of Irish immigrants (sounds familiar). What those cities don't have are cathedrals of hate where people make lots of money out of bigotry and so it has been allowed to (largely) die out there.

The undesirable elements of the Rangers and Celtic supports - and their apologists - are a cancer at the core of our society and the acceptance and tolerance of sectarianism in this day in age is truly depressing.

I actually feel most sorry for the decent fans of these clubs (they do exist and I know many of them) that there has never been a strong enough desire amongst the decent fans to self-police and drive out the bigotry. I'd like to think that there is enough about their clubs to allow them to celebrate their Irishness and Britishness properly without having to celebrate being up to their knees in anyone's blood or having to celebrate terrorist organisations and still have a tasty rivalry without it spilling into the unnecessary.

There were signs of hope when the Scottish government talked tough and more importantly UEFA started taking serious action. But since it has now fallen back within the remit of the Scottish football authorities nothing has been done and sectarianism has been allowed to grow again. Which is little surprise when you look at the roles that the likes of Campbell Ogilvie have had in being employed by both the Scottish footballing authorities and Scotland's most bigoted club.

Ozyhibby
30-12-2015, 05:37 PM
Still nothing from Hibs?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

matty_f
30-12-2015, 05:40 PM
Still nothing from Hibs?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Stubbs was quoted in the papers saying that it doesn't show Scottish football in a good light. I know Frank Dougan was looking at building a report, so maybe they're waiting on that being done before commenting.

Hermit Crab
30-12-2015, 05:49 PM
Stubbs was quoted in the papers saying that it doesn't show Scottish football in a good light. I know Frank Dougan was looking at building a report, so maybe they're waiting on that being done before commenting.


I have emailed him with a very detailed report of what I witnessed, one incident was extremely nasty. I can't comment further though.

KeithTheHibby
30-12-2015, 06:27 PM
****ing **** the lot of them. Wish their horrible club had died and never returned a few years ago.

Scotland's shame by a country mile.

Sergey
30-12-2015, 06:44 PM
Still nothing from Hibs?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A statement from SEVCO.

http://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/club-statement-59/

That'll be that then. END OF.

Billy Whizz
30-12-2015, 06:45 PM
Rangers have put a statement on their website. I'm sure someone will post a link

Peevemor
30-12-2015, 06:47 PM
A statement from SEVCO.

http://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/club-statement-59/

That'll be that then. END OF.


Minority? Who are they trying to kid?

Pete
30-12-2015, 06:50 PM
A statement from SEVCO.

http://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/club-statement-59/

That'll be that then. END OF.

They have done/will do all they can.

It doesn't work and simply isn't good enough. Laughing stock.

cabbageandribs1875
30-12-2015, 06:55 PM
A statement from SEVCO.

http://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/club-statement-59/

That'll be that then. END OF.



The Club operates a zero tolerance policy

:faf::faf: they should keep that sentence for 1st april, disgusting vile terrorist sympathising ****

givescotlandfreedom
30-12-2015, 07:01 PM
A statement from SEVCO.

http://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/club-statement-59/

That'll be that then. END OF.

Minority? Ha ha ha. Maybe the GFA reminded them to feign action so they don't have to actually do anything to them.

NAE NOOKIE
30-12-2015, 07:08 PM
A statement from SEVCO.

http://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/club-statement-59/

That'll be that then. END OF.

Perhaps they need to look up the definition of what constitutes 'a minority' ..................... Let me help ...... Its not 99%

I've no doubt the club now and the old club have strived like Hercules to stamp this out ... but 20 years of utter failure is long enough. They claim to be the same club, well how many times are they going to issue that same statement before it becomes taking the piss. Time it was taken out of their hands.

Carheenlea
30-12-2015, 07:09 PM
While some credit should be given for at least acknowledging there was unacceptable chants and songs on Monday, but the statement has two serious falsehoods so probably not worth the paper it's written on.

1 - It was far from a minority engaging. More like a majority.
2 - Rangers don't operate a zero tolerance policy towards sectarianism.

Colr
30-12-2015, 07:17 PM
:agree: Celtic and The Rangers know full well that without sectarianism and bigotry their crowds would be a fraction of what they are. They have too much to lose financially from the eradication of bigotry, as it forms a core part of their "customer proposition". The football authorities, media and politicians know this, hence their reluctance to tackle the issue head on. In 2015, it is Scotland's Shame and shows what a backward nation we still are.

IMO it will take outside action from the UK Government and/or UEFA to tackle the problem. The problem is obvious, the solution is simple.

I wonder if the English FA have a perspective on this. Given the OF occasionally says they want to join the EPL, I would have thought that English clubs must have little interest in having their support visit

Colr
30-12-2015, 07:18 PM
I no longer put Celtic and Rangers in the same camp on this topic. I've not heard a religious oriented song from Celtic Fans in years. I've heard lots of protest songs, and freedom for Ireland songs..I've even heard "up the RA" type chants on occasions - not for a long time at parkhead on that one - I have to say - seems to be more their away support. None of these are sectarian though. Even the very difficult topic of songs in support of the IRA are not religious, many protestants in Ireland supported their cause..and were active.

I stand up to be corrected but I would say today, and in recent times, chants and songs of sectarian nature are almost exclusively a Rangers thing.

You might hear worse from Celtic if you were attending as part of the Hearts support, I suggest.

Www1875hfc
30-12-2015, 07:19 PM
While some credit should be given for at least acknowledging there was unacceptable chants and songs on Monday, but the statement has two serious falsehoods so probably not worth the paper it's written on.

1 - It was far from a minority engaging. More like a majority.
2 - Rangers don't operate a zero tolerance policy towards sectarianism.

1 Rangers fans response to the club statement. Tells you everything really.

Ross Cochrane FK OFF. I THOUGH MARTIN BAIN N DAVID MURRAY WERE THE ****ERS WHO LET US GET PUMMELED FROM UEFA N THE SFA FOR YEARS!!! GROW A SET DAVE KING!! THIS IS US. THIS IS TGE RANGERS I WAS BROUGHT UP WITH. IBROX HAS BEEN A MORGUE FOR YEARS BECAUSE NO1 STOOD UP FOR US. MORE OF THE SAME NEXT HOME GAME 50,000 STRONG BELTING IT OUT. THE TARRIERS CONTINUE TO CHANT PRO IRA SLOGANS!!! AND IN ITALY N SERBIA THE NEO NAZI RACISM CONTINUES. NOW FK OFF. WE R UPTO ARE KNEES IN IT!

bigwheel
30-12-2015, 07:19 PM
You might hear worse from Celtic if you were attending as part of the Hearts support, I suggest.


well that ain't going to happen :flag: - but I'm not so sure it would be any different songs....

Bostonhibby
30-12-2015, 07:25 PM
I wonder if the English FA have a perspective on this. Given the OF occasionally says they want to join the EPL, I would have thought that English clubs must have little interest in having their support visit
They have no chance of being invited down here. England doesn't have the same sectarianism as a feature of its national sport and the highly lucrative worldwide brand ain't going to be damaged anytime soon by having the brand aligned with religious hatred, proactive support for terrorists who were blowing up parts of England in recent memory and the prospect of a recurrence of the now defunct Glasgow rangers fans visit to Manchester doesn't work either in modern society

Hermit Crab
30-12-2015, 07:28 PM
They can start by lifting the boy singing in the video posted on facebook, someone better save that as I can see it getting deleted sharpish in light of that statement.

Hermit Crab
30-12-2015, 07:29 PM
While some credit should be given for at least acknowledging there was unacceptable chants and songs on Monday, but the statement has two serious falsehoods so probably not worth the paper it's written on.

1 - It was far from a minority engaging. More like a majority.
2 - Rangers don't operate a zero tolerance policy towards sectarianism.


:agree: If they did they would stop people entering with red hands of ulster and such like...... :rolleyes:

cabbageandribs1875
30-12-2015, 07:38 PM
1 Rangers fans response to the club statement. Tells you everything really.

Ross Cochrane FK OFF. I THOUGH MARTIN BAIN N DAVID MURRAY WERE THE ****ERS WHO LET US GET PUMMELED FROM UEFA N THE SFA FOR YEARS!!! GROW A SET DAVE KING!! THIS IS US. THIS IS TGE RANGERS I WAS BROUGHT UP WITH. IBROX HAS BEEN A MORGUE FOR YEARS BECAUSE NO1 STOOD UP FOR US. MORE OF THE SAME NEXT HOME GAME 50,000 STRONG BELTING IT OUT. THE TARRIERS CONTINUE TO CHANT PRO IRA SLOGANS!!! AND IN ITALY N SERBIA THE NEO NAZI RACISM CONTINUES. NOW FK OFF. WE R UPTO ARE KNEES IN IT!



i feel ashamed to live in the same country as this disgusting vile human being, i feel ashamed to be a fellow scot, and i feel ashamed that this vile ******* is of the same religion as myself...ignorant **** of the earth that wouldn't know what the inside of a parish church looked like, he will know what it's like inside an *orange lodge though




*orange, not Masonic

cabbageandribs1875
30-12-2015, 07:43 PM
They have no chance of being invited down here. England doesn't have the same sectarianism as a feature of its national sport and the highly lucrative worldwide brand ain't going to be damaged anytime soon by having the brand aligned with religious hatred, proactive support for terrorists who were blowing up parts of England in recent memory and the prospect of a recurrence of the now defunct Glasgow rangers fans visit to Manchester doesn't work either in modern society


unfortunately they are our(scotlands) problem, i could only imagine what the normal decent englishman/woman would think if they knew the words to the songs they vile pieces of *&*& sing, they would quite rightly think what a backwater nation we really are

Hermit Crab
30-12-2015, 07:50 PM
The club itself are just as bad. IIRC they brought out an orange away top and only wore it at parkhead and easter rd. Does anyone remember that? Mid to late nineties.

NORTHERNHIBBY
30-12-2015, 07:57 PM
If it is any use to followers of the The Rangers, I know exactly what they are without the party songs, so any fear of losing cultural identity is misplaced.

Baldy Foghorn
30-12-2015, 08:04 PM
Minority:faf::faf::faf::faf::faf:

marinello59
30-12-2015, 08:06 PM
Minority:faf::faf::faf::faf::faf:

20000 out of 45000 is still a minority. Minor problem. :greengrin

gillythehibby
30-12-2015, 08:09 PM
unfortunately they are our(scotlands) problem, i could only imagine what the normal decent englishman/woman would think if they knew the words to the songs they vile pieces of *&*& sing, they would quite rightly think what a backwater nation we really are

Agree but lets get this right. This is a West of Scotland problem. The place still in the dark ages when it come to football much to the annoyance of the more educated in Glasgow. Why doesn't the SPFL just appoint an officer in the ground and instruct the Ref to stop the game on the hearing of listed banned songs? Just a thought.

Carheenlea
30-12-2015, 08:14 PM
Agree but lets get this right. This is a West of Scotland problem. The place still in the dark ages when it come to football much to the annoyance of the more educated in Glasgow. Why doesn't the SPFL just appoint an officer in the ground and instruct the Ref to stop the game on the hearing of listed banned songs? Just a thought.

It sounds like an extreme measure to take, but if the authorities are serious about eradicating sectarianism from our grounds, then extreme measures need to be put in place.

blackpoolhibs
30-12-2015, 08:14 PM
Agree but lets get this right. This is a West of Scotland problem. The place still in the dark ages when it come to football much to the annoyance of the more educated in Glasgow. Why doesn't the SPFL just appoint an officer in the ground and instruct the Ref to stop the game on the hearing of listed banned songs? Just a thought.
The have infiltrated the place and the others are scared ****less.

Bostonhibby
30-12-2015, 08:18 PM
unfortunately they are our(scotlands) problem, i could only imagine what the normal decent englishman/woman would think if they knew the words to the songs they vile pieces of *&*& sing, they would quite rightly think what a backwater nation we really are

:agree: It really is (sadly) Scotlands problem and until there is a political will to actually do something about it rather than just talk about it not much will change. Taking the issue out of the hands of the GFA is only the beginning.

gillythehibby
30-12-2015, 08:21 PM
It sounds like an extreme measure to take, but if the authorities are serious about eradicating sectarianism from our grounds, then extreme measures need to be put in place.

Agree but like you say it's going to take extreme measures to get the better of these muppets. The Rangers board cannot stop this, it's too ingrained.

HoboHarry
30-12-2015, 08:21 PM
:agree: It really is (sadly) Scotlands problem and until there is a political will to actually do something about it rather than just talk about it not much will change. Taking the issue out of the hands of the GFA is only the beginning.

It will become a far wider problem if Doncaster gets his way and starts having Scottish games played abroad. The Dundee vs Celtic game was the one mentioned but without doubt he will be looking for a Rangers vs Celtic game to be played in the east coast of the USA. Then the whole world will start to understand that garbage.....

Haymaker
30-12-2015, 08:26 PM
The club itself are just as bad. IIRC they brought out an orange away top and only wore it at parkhead and easter rd. Does anyone remember that? Mid to late nineties.

I remember, they said it was because of their "Dutch" connection of Dick Advocaat and the De Boers etc... :rolleyes:

Hermit Crab
30-12-2015, 08:32 PM
I remember, they said it was because of their "Dutch" connection of Dick Advocaat and the De Boers etc... :rolleyes:


Aye, and the band played believe it if you like.

liamh2202
30-12-2015, 08:45 PM
Agree but lets get this right. This is a West of Scotland problem. The place still in the dark ages when it come to football much to the annoyance of the more educated in Glasgow. Why doesn't the SPFL just appoint an officer in the ground and instruct the Ref to stop the game on the hearing of listed banned songs? Just a thought.

Unfortunately not true. Mining towns in east lothian.. Fife and the highlands it is rife. Not to mention ayreshire where imo it is the worst as well as lanarkshire , motherwell aidrie etc. Definitely a nation wide issue

CorrieHibs
30-12-2015, 08:56 PM
The club itself are just as bad. IIRC they brought out an orange away top and only wore it at parkhead and easter rd. Does anyone remember that? Mid to late nineties.

Did they not all wear that strip in a cup final as well? Absolute roasters

HibeeMcGinn1
30-12-2015, 09:03 PM
What a horrible reply from Rangers. Why even bother? The abuse I've received on the East Lothian Hibs Twitter account after posting the video of someone clearly shouting 'Fenian c***s' clearly shows the mentality of those fans. Disgusting.

Thecat23
30-12-2015, 09:04 PM
I'm sure they brought the strip out as a tribute to Dick Advocaat that year. With him being Dutch! But to be honest it was prob just an excuse and they'd have been choking to bring an orange strip out.

Bostonhibby
30-12-2015, 09:06 PM
I'm sure they brought the strip out as a tribute to Dick Advocaat that year. With him being Dutch! But to be honest it was prob just an excuse and they'd have been choking to bring an orange strip out.

Nae shock there then, they once signed a guy called Orjan Persson because in their semi literate world they though he was an orange person. :wink:

Geo_1875
30-12-2015, 09:25 PM
Unfortunately not true. Mining towns in east lothian.. Fife and the highlands it is rife. Not to mention ayreshire where imo it is the worst as well as lanarkshire , motherwell aidrie etc. Definitely a nation wide issue

Agreed. I know many intelligent/educated people from the East of Scotland who lose all veneer of respectability when challenged on their support for either side of Scotland's shame.

Onion
30-12-2015, 09:37 PM
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/14174427.Rangers_to_work_with_police_after__quot_i nappropriate_singing_quot__by_fans_at_Hibs_match/?

IMO this has now become the media's shame. Anyone who watched this match on national TV could see and hear this was far from being a "minority" or an isolated incident of "inappropriate singing".

The media should be ashamed of themselves for not calling Sevco out for this. Shame on the West Coast Media Bigots. Shame on Sevco and all who float in her. Shame of the SNP for their inaction and false lip service to upholding the law. Shame on the SPFL & SFA for for their inaction and acceptance.

This is not Scotland's Same. Not in my name.

Thecat23
30-12-2015, 09:38 PM
Nae shock there then, they once signed a guy called Orjan Persson because in their semi literate world they though he was an orange person. :wink:

😂😂

cabbageandribs1875
30-12-2015, 09:38 PM
Agree but lets get this right. This is a West of Scotland problem. The place still in the dark ages when it come to football much to the annoyance of the more educated in Glasgow. Why doesn't the SPFL just appoint an officer in the ground and instruct the Ref to stop the game on the hearing of listed banned songs? Just a thought.


and then the opposition team/fans would suffer ?

Thecat23
30-12-2015, 09:41 PM
What they should do is if it's a handful throw them out right away. Anymore say like a whole stand or whatever then the team losses a game 3-0 no matter what the score was at the time.

Punish the team and it will force them to try ban these clowns. But then again it's prob the majority of them so they would be playing in front of about 700 😂

Lucius Apuleius
30-12-2015, 09:42 PM
:agree: If they did they would stop people entering with red hands of ulster and such like...... :rolleyes:

Personally think you have picked a bad example. I know the way it is used however it is the flag of northern Ireland where a lot of their support comes from. They could just be showing where they come from. 😄

Sir David Gray
30-12-2015, 09:48 PM
Minority? Who are they trying to kid?

It must be the largest minority in the world.

Unbelievable that Sevco can come out with such nonsense - utter embarrassment.

Baldy Foghorn
30-12-2015, 09:50 PM
It must be the largest minority in the world.

Unbelievable that Sevco can come out with such nonsense - utter embarrassment.

:agree::agree::agree:

Jonnyboy
30-12-2015, 09:52 PM
Aye, and the band played believe it if you like.

On the flute, I'd wager

Sir David Gray
30-12-2015, 09:59 PM
:agree::agree::agree:

I would actually have more respect for them if they said something along the lines of;

We will not be doing a thing about this since the sectarianism of our fans is so profitable to our club and there's so many of our fans who engage in this behaviour that we cannot possibly tackle this problem effectively.

Mr White
30-12-2015, 10:01 PM
On the flute, I'd wager

:tee hee:

Hermit Crab
30-12-2015, 10:03 PM
On the flute, I'd wager


:tee hee:

Mr White
30-12-2015, 10:04 PM
Personally think you have picked a bad example. I know the way it is used however it is the flag of northern Ireland where a lot of their support comes from. They could just be showing where they come from. 😄

Pedantically speaking it's ulster's crest. So northern ireland plus cavan monaghan and Donegal :greengrin

marinello59
30-12-2015, 10:07 PM
I would actually have more respect for them if they said something along the lines of;

We will not be doing a thing about this since the sectarianism of our fans is so profitable to our club and there's so many of our fans who engage in this behaviour that we cannot possibly tackle this problem effectively.

If you read between the lines that is exactly what they are saying.

Baldy Foghorn
30-12-2015, 10:09 PM
If you read between the lines that is exactly what they are saying.

Was going to post something similar.....It's been going on since day dot, it will never change......

Lucius Apuleius
30-12-2015, 10:12 PM
Pedantically speaking it's ulster's crest. So northern ireland plus cavan monaghan and Donegal :greengrin

Cirrect, but not being the pedantic type I thought I would stick with norn irn. 😄

SausageSurprise
30-12-2015, 10:12 PM
What they should do is if it's a handful throw them out right away. Anymore say like a whole stand or whatever then the team losses a game 3-0 no matter what the score was at the time.

Punish the team and it will force them to try ban these clowns. But then again it's prob the majority of them so they would be playing in front of about 700 😂

Who's all up for going undercover at Ibrox from now till the end of the season and giving it laldy with the billy boys!?!?

In the words of a wise man named Scottie McClue "Tell ten to tell ten to tell ten" We'll have the title sewed up in no time!!

Mr White
30-12-2015, 10:14 PM
Cirrect, but not being the pedantic type I thought I would stick with norn irn. 😄

:greengrin

Cameron1875
30-12-2015, 10:30 PM
The sectarian infiltration is Scotland's biggest problem imo

Also *** towns like:

Falkirk
Dunfermline
Motherwell
Ayr
Kilmarnock
Dumbarton etc etc are probably the main reason why we may struggle to ever see an independent Scotland :(.

Mibbes Aye
30-12-2015, 11:38 PM
The sectarian infiltration is Scotland's biggest problem imo

Also *** towns like:

Falkirk
Dunfermline
Motherwell
Ayr
Kilmarnock
Dumbarton etc etc are probably the main reason why we may struggle to ever see an independent Scotland :(.

Yeah.

There's nothing like generalising about places to highlight the crassness of generalising about people.

hibees 7062
31-12-2015, 12:06 AM
The club itself are just as bad. IIRC they brought out an orange away top and only wore it at parkhead and easter rd. Does anyone remember that? Mid to late nineties.
http://bferguson4.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/orange-gers-strip.jpg

cabbageandribs1875
31-12-2015, 12:14 AM
https://media.giphy.com/media/oS4bJ2sRXKVDa/giphy.gif

GreenOnions
31-12-2015, 12:38 AM
I really don't know what's going on with this thread - we get beaten so we start moaning about The Rangers' bigoted support :rolleyes: It's hardly news is it?

I can't work out whether we're complaining about either:

a) The fact that these TRFC "supporters" are not being pulled up for breaking the law by singing sectarian songs
or
b) The fact that many TRFC "supporters" are bigots

b) cannot be dealt with by legislation - it's putting the cart before the horse. Sectarianism is an attitude of mind - not a behaviour. Furthermore - a) will remain the case because of b).

If we're going to address the issue of bigotry let's not pretend that picking the low-hanging fruit is going to help. When a kid who likes swearing is told not to swear in the house he is quite likely to simply swear outside. Attitudes are formed at a much earlier age than when people start attending football matches.

Much of this thread seems to assume that dealing with the symptom of a problem will deal with the cause. I've got to say that it feels like we just can't handle it and maybe this is part of the reason we failed to perform at Ibrox - we're already thinking about how unfair everything is. It's a mentality that won't help us.

I live in Glasgow and agree that sectarian views are a serious problem here and in west central Scotland generally. I think the idea that dealing with sectarian singing at Ibrox or any other football ground will help is wishful thinking in the extreme.

Like everyone on here I abhor sectarianism. Let's just try to avoid totemic gestures that are well-meant but perhaps also motivated by a soreness at losing.

silverhibee
31-12-2015, 12:54 AM
Are Hibs just going to let this go, a statement should have been issued by the club by now.

And how f***ing long does it take to read the match delegates report on what went on in the ground on Monday, It's now f***ing Thursday, they were quick enough to deal with Fyfie.

Mibbes Aye
31-12-2015, 12:56 AM
I really don't know what's going on with this thread - we get beaten so we start moaning about The Rangers' bigoted support :rolleyes: It's hardly news is it?

I can't work out whether we're complaining about either:

a) The fact that these TRFC "supporters" are not being pulled up for breaking the law by singing sectarian songs
or
b) The fact that many TRFC "supporters" are bigots

b) cannot be dealt with by legislation - it's putting the cart before the horse. Sectarianism is an attitude of mind - not a behaviour. Furthermore - a) will remain the case because of b).

If we're going to address the issue of bigotry let's not pretend that picking the low-hanging fruit is going to help. When a kid who likes swearing is told not to swear in the house he is quite likely to simply swear outside. Attitudes are formed at a much earlier age than when people start attending football matches.

Much of this thread seems to assume that dealing with the symptom of a problem will deal with the cause. I've got to say that it feels like we just can't handle it and maybe this is part of the reason we failed to perform at Ibrox - we're already thinking about how unfair everything is. It's a mentality that won't help us.

I live in Glasgow and agree that sectarian views are a serious problem here and in west central Scotland generally. I think the idea that dealing with sectarian singing at Ibrox or any other football ground will help is wishful thinking in the extreme.

Like everyone on here I abhor sectarianism. Let's just try to avoid totemic gestures that are well-meant but perhaps also motivated by a soreness at losing.

Appreciate your post.

I think it's the playing them that brings it to prominence for us. We wouldn't notice if they were doing this at Dumfries or Dumbarton but we see it when we play them.

That's not a bad thing though, it's not our fault we don't see it regularly, it's their fault they indulge in this behaviour, not ours.

I totally agree with your point about whether we tackle symptoms rather than causes.

Like any discriminatory behaviour, we can only do what we can do. Tackle it at every level, challenge it at every step, confront it at every point.

The alternative is we say we're okay with being called tarriers or taigs, or ******s or pakis, or whatever insult a bigot wants to throw.

Not for me, and hopefully no other Hibs fan, whatever their colour, creed or religion (or lack of :greengrin)

snooky
31-12-2015, 01:23 AM
On BBC website Rangers decry abusive chants BY A MINORITY.
Eh, what do yo mean? A minority of the population of Scotland or what?
"A minority" Your having a giraffe.

Onion
31-12-2015, 07:54 AM
On BBC website Rangers decry abusive chants BY A MINORITY.
Eh, what do yo mean? A minority of the population of Scotland or what?
"A minority" Your having a giraffe.

TRFC helping police by providing video evidence of the away fans who might have been involved in abusive chanting and inciting the mild-mannered, law-abiding Rangers fans. Hibs risk of points deduction, ground closure, and a 2 game SPFL ban.

mjhibby
31-12-2015, 08:08 AM
On BBC website Rangers decry abusive chants BY A MINORITY.
Eh, what do yo mean? A minority of the population of Scotland or what?
"A minority" Your having a giraffe.

Is that like the minority of the hertz fans singing their bile last season at er. It was the whole stand. Nothing will ever be done about this as they are one of the axis of evil and as such I will never take my wee man to a sevco,hertz or Sellick game if only so don't have to explain to him what theses nice ditties actually say. A permanent stain on this country that is shameful to all those who are in power and do nothing about it.

Lucius Apuleius
31-12-2015, 08:50 AM
The sectarian infiltration is Scotland's biggest problem imo

Also *** towns like:

Falkirk
Dunfermline
Motherwell
Ayr
Kilmarnock
Dumbarton etc etc are probably the main reason why we may struggle to ever see an independent Scotland :(.

Pile of €&_%

Salt N Sauzee
31-12-2015, 09:04 AM
"Rangers to assist police in arresting 50,000 fans involved in sectarian chanting"

http://news.stv.tv/west-central/1337578-rangers-vow-to-help-police-catch-sectarian-singers-after-hibs-match/

Ozyhibby
31-12-2015, 09:20 AM
Still nothing from Hibs?


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lapsedhibee
31-12-2015, 10:23 AM
On BBC website Rangers decry abusive chants BY A MINORITY.
Eh, what do yo mean? A minority of the population of Scotland or what?
"A minority" Your having a giraffe.

As unsatisfactory as this one is, hun statements are actually getting better with time.

Used to be described as a tiny minority.
Then as a small minority.
Now just a minority.

In another decade it could conceivably be "tiny majority".

sleeping giant
31-12-2015, 10:25 AM
The sectarian infiltration is Scotland's biggest problem imo

Also *** towns like:

Falkirk
Dunfermline
Motherwell
Ayr
Kilmarnock
Dumbarton etc etc are probably the main reason why we may struggle to ever see an independent Scotland :(.

Dreary dreary me. I hope you were pished when posting this pish.

Colr
31-12-2015, 11:09 AM
I was once told that the reason Marco Negri didn't celebrate scoring for Rangers was that he worked out what they were singing about.

Makes you wonder what the current batch of imports think of the club's culture.

Ozyhibby
31-12-2015, 11:11 AM
I was once told that the reason Marco Negri didn't celebrate scoring for Rangers was that he worked out what they were singing about.

Makes you wonder what the current batch of imports think of the club's culture.

They will hold their nose and think of the money. They all do.


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Kato
31-12-2015, 11:17 AM
I was once told that the reason Marco Negri didn't celebrate scoring for Rangers was that he worked out what they were singing about.



:agree: It was his partner who worked out what the "culture" of RFC was and explained it to him.

Colr
31-12-2015, 11:19 AM
:agree: It was his partner who worked out what the "culture" of RFC was and explained it to him.

Every week, Marco Negri, Rangers long-serving reserve team striker, earns an estimated £18,000. As, at the start of this season, he hadn't kicked a ball for Rangers in 26 months, with the exception of a brief substitute appearance against Morton in the Scottish Cup, that's almost £2m banked for no return. He arrived from Perugia for £3.5m in June 1997 under Walter Smith, scoring a phenomenal 23 goals in ten games - the best strike rate in Europe. But the warning signs were already there: Negri refused to celebrate his goals with more than a handshake, and managed to look aloof even while hitting the back of the net. He socialised only with full-back Sergio Porrini, with whom he played squash. During one of their matches, Negri was hit in the eye, and was out injured for weeks; once he recovered, his first team appearances were few and far between. Last month, now under Dick Advocaat, he played in the Rangers youth team that lost a pre-season friendly to East Fife. But with another £18,000 in the bank, he's not complaining.

Onion
31-12-2015, 11:33 AM
As unsatisfactory as this one is, hun statements are actually getting better with time.

Used to be described as a tiny minority.
Then as a small minority.
Now just a minority.

In another decade it could conceivably be "tiny majority".

Describing it as a minority is still insulting. The Rangers play the game of sounding concerned but encourage their bigoted mob to give their worst. Their manager describes this kind of support as tremendous, they have zero respect for other clubs, have zero concern for the welfare and safety of away fans, have a no-one-likes-us attitude etc etc. In short, the hate filled arrogant culture within Ibrox is the perfect place to foster bigotry and the club is doing as little as they can get away with to change that.

Moulin Yarns
31-12-2015, 11:35 AM
It will be interesting to compare the outcomes of the SFA/SPFL investigations to the singing at Ibrox and the FA investigations at Sheffield.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/35204905

http://www.sufc.co.uk/news/article/sheffield-united-bradford-city-2876026.aspx


The Blades will take every step to track down and deal with those responsible for any inappropriate actions, which ruin the matchday experience for other supporters.

silverhibee
31-12-2015, 12:59 PM
Still nothing from Hibs?


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Big fat zero.

Baldy Foghorn
31-12-2015, 01:06 PM
I really don't know what's going on with this thread - we get beaten so we start moaning about The Rangers' bigoted support :rolleyes: It's hardly news is it?

I can't work out whether we're complaining about either:

a) The fact that these TRFC "supporters" are not being pulled up for breaking the law by singing sectarian songs
or
b) The fact that many TRFC "supporters" are bigots

b) cannot be dealt with by legislation - it's putting the cart before the horse. Sectarianism is an attitude of mind - not a behaviour. Furthermore - a) will remain the case because of b).

If we're going to address the issue of bigotry let's not pretend that picking the low-hanging fruit is going to help. When a kid who likes swearing is told not to swear in the house he is quite likely to simply swear outside. Attitudes are formed at a much earlier age than when people start attending football matches.

Much of this thread seems to assume that dealing with the symptom of a problem will deal with the cause. I've got to say that it feels like we just can't handle it and maybe this is part of the reason we failed to perform at Ibrox - we're already thinking about how unfair everything is. It's a mentality that won't help us.

I live in Glasgow and agree that sectarian views are a serious problem here and in west central Scotland generally. I think the idea that dealing with sectarian singing at Ibrox or any other football ground will help is wishful thinking in the extreme.

Like everyone on here I abhor sectarianism. Let's just try to avoid totemic gestures that are well-meant but perhaps also motivated by a soreness at losing.

Nothing to do with losing, it's meant to be illegal to sing the songs they sang, but they do it every week.....It NEEDS to stop.......

Frazerbob
31-12-2015, 01:11 PM
Big fat zero.

Extremely disappointed that we've heard nothing from the club. Maybe our 2 reps can let us know if it is even being discussed in th board room?

Baldy Foghorn
31-12-2015, 01:16 PM
Extremely disappointed that we've heard nothing from the club. Maybe our 2 reps can let us know if it is even being discussed in th board room?

Big Frank is compiling a report from emails sent by supporters, regarding the various incidents. Definitely being worked upon........

Moulin Yarns
31-12-2015, 01:21 PM
Big Frank is compiling a report from emails sent by supporters, regarding the various incidents. Definitely being worked upon........


Big Frank? You mean he has taken a break from causing all the bad weather we just had???? :wink:

Baldy Foghorn
31-12-2015, 01:25 PM
Big Frank? You mean he has taken a break from causing all the bad weather we just had???? :wink:

He is a busy man with all that wind right enough:greengrin

Ozyhibby
31-12-2015, 01:35 PM
Big Frank is compiling a report from emails sent by supporters, regarding the various incidents. Definitely being worked upon........

That sounds like it's being kicked into the long grass.


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Kato
31-12-2015, 01:35 PM
Sectarianism is nothing to worry about says bloke in The Daily Record so shut yer pusses.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/opinion/sport/michael-gannon-scotland-sectarian-problem-7094513

[One of the flakiest articles ever written in fact]

silverhibee
31-12-2015, 01:42 PM
Big Frank is compiling a report from emails sent by supporters, regarding the various incidents. Definitely being worked upon........


Something should have been said by Hibs before now, unless we hear something today from the club then it is a waste of time, nothing will be said tomorrow or the weekend, and it will be next week before we eventually hear something and that's not good enough, the club/Board/Frank Dougan have had 4 days to put something out to the press about the treatment of the Hibs support, the manager ( who has already commented on it) and the offensive songs that were sung by the majority of the home support, sorry BF but it is not good enough from our club, something should have been said by now from Ms Dempster.

Other clubs have been quick enough to condemn straight after there fans have visited Ibrox about missiles being thrown and there supporters feeling unsafe in the ground, why is it taking Hibs so long to issue a statement.

And when the f*** is the match delegates report going to be heard/read by the SFA. Hibs should be making a fuss about this as well when our manager has already commented on what was sung about him from the majority of the home support.

Oscar T Grouch
31-12-2015, 01:48 PM
That sounds like it's being kicked into the long grass.


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I would prefer a reasoned and well researched statement from the club rather than one based on them not having all the reports from the fans there. Yeah maybe they could have come out and condemned the sectarian abuse Stubbs took but if they issue a statement once they have all the information from the fans I'll be happy enough.

CropleyWasGod
31-12-2015, 01:52 PM
I would prefer a reasoned and well researched statement from the club rather than one based on them not having all the reports from the fans there. Yeah maybe they could have come out and condemned the sectarian abuse Stubbs took but if they issue a statement once they have all the information from the fans I'll be happy enough.

I'm with you.

Evidence is key here, whether it's from fans or the TV. The only way to gather it properly is to take one's time and try to rise above the knee-jerk stuff.

It would also have had less impact, IMO, if we had released a statement quickly after the game. That may have been seen as sour grapes.

Baldy Foghorn
31-12-2015, 01:56 PM
That sounds like it's being kicked into the long grass.


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How do you possibly come to that conclusion from what I wrote? I said it was being worked upon, it has now been submitted........

Baldy Foghorn
31-12-2015, 02:05 PM
Something should have been said by Hibs before now, unless we hear something today from the club then it is a waste of time, nothing will be said tomorrow or the weekend, and it will be next week before we eventually hear something and that's not good enough, the club/Board/Frank Dougan have had 4 days to put something out to the press about the treatment of the Hibs support, the manager ( who has already commented on it) and the offensive songs that were sung by the majority of the home support, sorry BF but it is not good enough from our club, something should have been said by now from Ms Dempster.

Other clubs have been quick enough to condemn straight after there fans have visited Ibrox about missiles being thrown and there supporters feeling unsafe in the ground, why is it taking Hibs so long to issue a statement.

And when the f*** is the match delegates report going to be heard/read by the SFA. Hibs should be making a fuss about this as well when our manager has already commented on what was sung about him from the majority of the home support.

It has been dealt with internally, and progressed through the proper channels. What exactly do you want Hibs to say on the matter, and potentially get into a slagging match with Sevco and via Media? Let's keep our heads and let Hibs deal with it in a manner that we normally do.

silverhibee
31-12-2015, 02:15 PM
I'm with you.

Evidence is key here, whether it's from fans or the TV. The only way to gather it properly is to take one's time and try to rise above the knee-jerk stuff.

It would also have had less impact, IMO, if we had released a statement quickly after the game. That may have been seen as sour grapes.

That the Hibs manager was subjected to sectarian abuse at his place of work, I think Hibs would have had every right to issue a statement straight after the game on that matter, and also added in that statement should have said Hibs are gathering evidence of how Hibs fans were treated at the game on Monday and once that is concluded it should be sent to the SFA first and then put out to the media/press.

How lond did it take Queen B to say something about when Celtc were singing there ditties at a game this year, think it was the next day.

GreenOnions
31-12-2015, 02:23 PM
Nothing to do with losing, it's meant to be illegal to sing the songs they sang, but they do it every week.....It NEEDS to stop.......

As I said in en earlier post - my opinion is that the law should be repealed. We should only be restricting free speech in extreme cases where psychological, social or economic disadvantage can result from abuse.

I accept that certain groups require additional protection in this regard for specific reasons. For this reason race, disability and sexual orientation amongst others are afforded extra protection under the law and that is entirely appropriate. The tendency though is to keep extending the list endlessly until it's impossible to know what can be said and what can't.

I do not believe that there is sufficient justification to extend these additional protections to the whole Protestant/Catholic issue in Scotland as I do not see evidence that one group is more vulnerable than the other. Pre-existing legal protection was fine and most of what is being complained about on this thread could be dealt with under public order legislation.

If abuse becomes violent then that's a different matter and we ought to be pursuing those who threw missiles etc into the Hibs support. There is plenty legislation that can deal with such violence without using the "anti-sectarian" law.

There are many things we see and hear on a daily basis that we might feel are horrible, unfair, idiotic, rude etc but we shouldn't be legislating against them all should we? We'd be legislating against human nature. We have to be judicious and also take care that we don't effectively outlaw things that are potentially beneficial like criticism and humour.

Voltaire reportedly said that "I disapprove of what you say, but I defend to the death your right to say it". This is a very important part of our democracy. The songs sung by TRFC fans are vile - but should they really be against the law?

I believe Hibs should focus on bringing to the attention of the police the violence perpetrated by Rangers fans at Ibrox. I also believe we should concentrate on ensuring there is no "vile" behaviour at our own ground so that supporters attending matches at Easter Road can know that they and their children are not going to be subjected to the sort of thing that happens in Govan. This could be achieved with strong instructions to stewards and police at the stadium.

silverhibee
31-12-2015, 02:30 PM
It has been dealt with internally, and progressed through the proper channels. What exactly do you want Hibs to say on the matter, and potentially get into a slagging match with Sevco and via Media? Let's keep our heads and let Hibs deal with it in a manner that we normally do.

That bit worries me, because Hibs normally do SFA about these things.

"your in the Big City with the Big Boys now so shut the f*** up or you will find out what the big boys will do" said to me from a Official Rangers Steward, he walked away when i brought out my phone, didn't want to say anything then. Horrible people, do have a photo of the Steward and even in the photo you can see the hatred oozing from him, the photos show that i was only a few feet away from the home support and only a woman and old man (stewards) between me and the away support, when we scored the home fans charged at us and the stewards had the cheek to push back the Hibs fans who were celebrating at the time, the bruising on my legs are nasty.

New jacket is now out of intensive care and hanging up. :greengrin

Baldy Foghorn
31-12-2015, 02:35 PM
That bit worries me, because Hibs normally do SFA about these things.

"your in the Big City with the Big Boys now so shut the f*** up or you will find out what the big boys will do" said to me from a Official Rangers Steward, he walked away when i brought out my phone, didn't want to say anything then. Horrible people, do have a photo of the Steward and even in the photo you can see the hatred oozing from him, the photos show that i was only a few feet away from the away support and only a woman and old man (stewards) between me and the away support, when we scored the home fans charged at us and the stewards had the cheek to push back the Hibs fans who were celebrating at the time, the bruising on my legs are nasty.

New jacket is now out of intensive care and hanging up. :greengrin

Definitely not doing nothing about it, well aware of the numerous incidents. You would be welcome to email the Club with your concerns.....The more information gathered, the stronger our case will be