Sectarian abuse

[21.05.2016]

****ing **** the lot of them. Wish their horrible club had died and never returned a few years ago.

Scotland's shame by a country mile.

This.

[silverhibee]

Definitely not doing nothing about it, well aware of the numerous incidents. You would be welcome to email the Club with your concerns.....The more information gathered, the stronger our case will be

Still waiting BF.

Not a f***ing word from Hibs yet.

Not good enough.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Still waiting BF.

Not a f***ing word from Hibs yet.

Not good enough.

Doubt the Club will be going public on this... If your not happy fire off an e-mail......

[marinello59]

Still waiting BF.

Not a f***ing word from Hibs yet.

Not good enough.

Apart from a bland holding statement what do you expect the club to say at this point? If you are talking about the sectarian abuse on its own then Stubbs has given his view. The board does need to hold off until the match report is published though.
If you mean the incidents involving objects being thrown etc then Hibs need to be doubly careful. Any video footage found of Sevco fans behaving badly will be, rightly or wrongly, countered with footage of Hibs fans behaving just as badly.

[Lago]

I wonder if this problem will ever be tackled effectively, to my mind the SFA, SPFL, the so called Scottish Government and individual Scottish football clubs, Hibs included, dance around this issue year in and year out, all to no effect. And no I don't know what the answer is either.

[B.H.F.C]

Apart from a bland holding statement what do you expect the club to say at this point? If you are talking about the sectarian abuse on its own then Stubbs has given his view. The board does need to hold off until the match report is published though.
If you mean the incidents involving objects being thrown etc then Hibs need to be doubly careful. Any video footage found of Sevco fans behaving badly will be, rightly or wrongly, countered with footage of Hibs fans behaving just as badly.

In terms of the various flying objects, and our general treatment, I would have liked to have heard something from the club.

But, as you say, I can only assume they've kept quiet on that front as they'll be aware of footage showing similar objects going in the opposite direction.

[QMU-1875]

To an extent I agree with the article... Most of it is just crap banter. Most of my mates are Rangers fans and I get the usual patter from them and they get it right back despite none of us actually being religious or even caring about what we are saying. I certainly dont mean it and I know for a fact they dont when they do it to me. Would prefer if it didnt happen but it will never chage as it is ingrained in our culture unfortunately. Even on this site we refer to Rangers fans as "orange" or as "huns". Its the 10% that actually mean what they are singing that need to be stopped. To the majority though; "It's just banter" - Richard Keys.

[JimBHibees]

To an extent I agree with the article... Most of it is just crap banter. Most of my mates are Rangers fans and I get the usual patter from them and they get it right back despite none of us actually being religious or even caring about what we are saying. I certainly dont mean it and I know for a fact they dont when they do it to me. Would prefer if it didnt happen but it will never chage as it is ingrained in our culture unfortunately. Even on this site we refer to Rangers fans as "orange" or as "huns". Its the 10% that actually mean what they are singing that need to be stopped. To the majority though; "It's just banter" - Richard Keys.

Disagree with that it doesn't have to be. The more this sort of thing is challenged the better meaning people realise it is unacceptable. Uefa started fining Rangers and the songs stopped now this ludicrous vacuum of no responsibility has been created they have returned. It isn't rocket science.

[QMU-1875]

Disagree with that it doesn't have to be. The more this sort of thing is challenged the better meaning people realise it is unacceptable. Uefa started fining Rangers and the songs stopped now this ludicrous vacuum of no responsibility has been created they have returned. It isn't rocket science.

Yea hopefuly you are right. I'd love to think that they will stop, if the SFA were to fine them given there precarious financial situation surely the fans will stop singing it. Off the pitch though, there fans wil continue which is my point as well really.

[Ozyhibby]

Doubt the Club will be going public on this... If your not happy fire off an e-mail......

In other words, we are doing hee haw.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[marinello59]

In other words, we are doing hee haw.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Is this becoming another stick to beat our own club with now?

[malcolm]

To an extent I agree with the article... Most of it is just crap banter. Most of my mates are Rangers fans and I get the usual patter from them and they get it right back despite none of us actually being religious or even caring about what we are saying. I certainly dont mean it and I know for a fact they dont when they do it to me. Would prefer if it didnt happen but it will never chage as it is ingrained in our culture unfortunately. Even on this site we refer to Rangers fans as "orange" or as "huns". Its the 10% that actually mean what they are singing that need to be stopped. To the majority though; "It's just banter" - Richard Keys.

It annoys me when some kind of sectarian baggage is promoted as being attached to this term which I think might be part of some kind of tit for tat agenda. I think you could see it as coming from the maurauding hordes that Atilla led or a derogatory term for Germans in the 1st world war. I can't think of any other term that is better suited to describe the Rangers followers when congregated in any groups larger than 2 or 3. If I use it, it is entirely descriptive and appropriate used in 'say what I see' fashion.:greengrin

[Baldy Foghorn]

In other words, we are doing hee haw.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thats twice you have said that. I know we are doing something, however you bash on with what you think.

[lapsedhibee]

Even on this site we refer to Rangers fans as "orange" or as "huns".

Huns yes, but orange? I don't think I've ever noticed the the huns or their fans being referred to here as orange, or protestant, or by any other religious descriptor.

As has been often pointed out here, the idea that huns is a sectarian term is just hun non-sequitur whataboutery. 'We call them taigs, tarriers, fenians, whatever - but they call us names too, so they're just as bigoted as us.'

[marinello59]

Huns yes, but orange? I don't think I've ever noticed the the huns or their fans being referred to here as orange, or protestant, or by any other religious descriptor.

As has been often pointed out here, the idea that huns is a sectarian term is just hun non-sequitur whataboutery. 'We call them taigs, tarriers, fenians, whatever - but they call us names too, so they're just as bigoted as us.'

It would be removed if it was .

[Carheenlea]

Huns yes, but orange? I don't think I've ever noticed the the huns or their fans being referred to here as orange, or protestant, or by any other religious descriptor.

As has been often pointed out here, the idea that huns is a sectarian term is just hun non-sequitur whataboutery. 'We call them taigs, tarriers, fenians, whatever - but they call us names too, so they're just as bigoted as us.'

My 6 month old nephew is called Tadhg, and I keep mispronouncing his name as "Taig", which really goes down a treat with the family.. (The correct pronunciation is tie rather than tai)

[AndyM_1875]

That the Hibs manager was subjected to sectarian abuse at his place of work, I think Hibs would have had every right to issue a statement straight after the game on that matter, and also added in that statement should have said Hibs are gathering evidence of how Hibs fans were treated at the game on Monday and once that is concluded it should be sent to the SFA first and then put out to the media/press.

How lond did it take Queen B to say something about when Celtc were singing there ditties at a game this year, think it was the next day.

Difference was that Mrs B had part of her stadium wrecked (away fans bogs) and dozens of seats smashed by the Soapdodgers, the tedious IRA songbook rubbish was an add on.

[SausageSurprise]

Eradicating sectarianism and bigotry isn't being helped by our state broadcaster making light of the subject on Only an Excuse, a program which is most associated with Scottish football or to be precise Rangers, Celtic and Sevco

[silverhibee]

Why is Frank Dougan sitting in the away end at Ibrox on Monday, no doubt he would have had a seat in the Directors Box in the main stand, bit of bad crack that he is taking up a seat in the away section when tickets for this game was very limited.

[marinello59]

Why is Frank Dougan sitting in the away end at Ibrox on Monday, no doubt he would have had a seat in the Directors Box in the main stand, bit of bad crack that he is taking up a seat in the away section when tickets for this game was very limited.

Eh? He will have paid for the seat he preferred to sit in. What is wrong with that?

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Why is Frank Dougan sitting in the away end at Ibrox on Monday, no doubt he would have had a seat in the Directors Box in the main stand, bit of bad crack that he is taking up a seat in the away section when tickets for this game was very limited.
Why post that on this thread. ? ?

[Ronniekirk]

Why is Frank Dougan sitting in the away end at Ibrox on Monday, no doubt he would have had a seat in the Directors Box in the main stand, bit of bad crack that he is taking up a seat in the away section when tickets for this game was very limited.

Because he didn't want pelted with coins juice or worse or flying pies Trust me it's a lot safer in the away end if you keep yourself to yourself


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[liamh2202]

Why is Frank Dougan sitting in the away end at Ibrox on Monday, no doubt he would have had a seat in the Directors Box in the main stand, bit of bad crack that he is taking up a seat in the away section when tickets for this game was very limited.

He didnt do anyone out of a ticket. At ibrox the comp tickets for unstripped players and staff are in the away end. At most other grounds they sit in the home end but ranyers choose to do it this way and have always done it this way. So the only person frank stopped going was either an unstripped player/youth player or a member of backroom staff ;)

[CL0762]

Why is Frank Dougan sitting in the away end at Ibrox on Monday, no doubt he would have had a seat in the Directors Box in the main stand, bit of bad crack that he is taking up a seat in the away section when tickets for this game was very limited.

Because he's a Hibernian supporter first and foremost and pays his way like the rest of us?

[marinello59]

Why post that on this thread. ? ?

Maybe he is being a not so smart arse?:greengrin

[Mikey09]

So to conclude these incidents...

Away support abused.
Sectarian song sung to away manager (by a minority of 50,000)
Away support pelted with pies, coins, bovril, lighters etc...
Sectarian song sung at away support (by a minority of 50,000)
Police and stewards ignore pretty much everything seen except if away fan reacts to being hit with pies, coins, bovril, lighters etc then threaten away fan with ejection, arrest or smirk telling them to "make a complaint then!"
The Rangers roll out a laughable statement with phrases such as "zero tolerance".... "It's just a minority" and "we're doing all we can."
Not a peep from the authorities.
Matter swept under the carpet by SFA, SPFL.
Business as usual.
Matter closed.

[sleeping giant]

So to conclude these incidents...

Away support abused.
Sectarian song sung to away manager (by a minority of 50,000)
Away support pelted with pies, coins, bovril, lighters etc...
Sectarian song sung at away support (by a minority of 50,000)
Police and stewards ignore pretty much everything seen except if away fan reacts to being hit with pies, coins, bovril, lighters etc then threaten away fan with ejection, arrest or smirk telling them to "make a complaint then!"
The Rangers roll out a laughable statement with phrases such as "zero tolerance".... "It's just a minority" and "we're doing all we can."
Not a peep from the authorities.
Matter swept under the carpet by SFA, SPFL.
Business as usual.
Matter closed.

You forgot about Frank :greengrin

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

What are the limits that stewards are allowed to go to? Could our head of security not contact their equivalent at Ibrox and say if your lot chant that filth at our place then they will be hooked? Would show them up for what they are, if we tripled the security presence in their end.

[easty]

What are the limits that stewards are allowed to go to? Could our head of security not contact their equivalent at Ibrox and say if your lot chant that filth at our place then they will be hooked? Would show them up for what they are, if we tripled the security presence in their end.

Thats exactly what we should do, pick them out one by one for singing thier *****, and lanch them out. They want to come to our house, it's our rules or they can get oot.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Because he's a Hibernian supporter first and foremost and pays his way like the rest of us?

Exactly, Frank would rather sit amongst the supporter's, as he has always done..........Can't see the issue personally......

[21.05.2016]

Exactly, Frank would rather sit amongst the supporter's, as he has always done..........Can't see the issue personally......

Exactly, he has just as much right to be in the away end as any other hibs fan. Gives him a chance to speak to the fans as well.

[bigwheel]

Why is Frank Dougan sitting in the away end at Ibrox on Monday, no doubt he would have had a seat in the Directors Box in the main stand, bit of bad crack that he is taking up a seat in the away section when tickets for this game was very limited.

How could Frank be the voice of the ordinary supporter to Hibs, if he is sitting in the directors box...it is to his credit that he experiences the game as we do....

[Pete]

Eradicating sectarianism and bigotry isn't being helped by our state broadcaster making light of the subject on Only an Excuse, a program which is most associated with Scottish football or to be precise Rangers, Celtic and Sevco

Excellent point, and is evidence of how deeply ingrained this problem is in Scottish society. You can't really blame the BBC or the programs writers for doing anything out of the ordinary though as in a way they are only giving the audience what they want. Unfortunately, Rangers and Celtic are just focal points as this goes way beyond football.

We are football fans though and we can do something to highlight this problem and do our bit to try and eradicate it. An ideal scenario would be for fans of ALL other football clubs to unite and say that we don't like it, we aren't going to accept this any more and we won't stop telling the rest of the U.K./Europe/the world how backwards an element of our society is. A united front involving ordinary supporters of Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen, Dundee clubs etc..would be a powerful voice and would probably be listened to above the Scottish media telling everyone we are just bitter and jealous. Win, lose or draw against them we really need to let the people know what their supporters are like by strongly highlighting sectarian behaviour on a weekly basis. There is too much at stake and too much politics involved for the clubs to do anything so it's down to the supporters. I wouldn't hold my breath though as there are probably too many rivalries but we have a lot more in common than we think and one big problem that unites us all.

[emerald green]

I read somewhere that the SPFL will wait to see what its match delegate has to say before deciding to take action (if any?) against the Ibrox club over sectarian chanting during last Monday's match with Hibs. (Presumably this will make no mention of away fans being pelted with all sorts, as per usual?)

The sectarian chanting comes from a "minority" of their supporters according to the Ibrox club. Must be the loudest "minority" I've ever heard. How are they defining a minority?

Anyway, two questions: 1) How long does this process take? i.e. how long does the match delegate get to submit his/her report? and 2) What potential action can the SPFL take, if any?

[Ozyhibby]

I read somewhere that the SPFL will wait to see what its match delegate has to say before deciding to take action (if any?) against the Ibrox club over sectarian chanting during last Monday's match with Hibs. (Presumably this will make no mention of away fans being pelted with all sorts, as per usual?)

The sectarian chanting comes from a "minority" of their supporters according to the Ibrox club. Must be the loudest "minority" I've ever heard. How are they defining a minority?

Anyway, two questions: 1) How long does this process take? i.e. how long does the match delegate get to submit his/her report? and 2) What potential action can the SPFL take, if any?

1. They will have the report by now.
2. If Sevco can show they took all reasonable steps to avoid it happening then the SPFL will only give them a slap on the wrist. This is what will happen even though there were stewards joining in the signing, which shows they did not do all they could.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[emerald green]

1. They will have the report by now.
2. If Sevco can show they took all reasonable steps to avoid it happening then the SPFL will only give them a slap on the wrist. This is what will happen even though there were stewards joining in the signing, which shows they did not do all they could.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's what I think will happen, i.e. zilch, as per usual.

[Betty Boop]

Both Dundee and Kilmarnock were chanting the banned BB song yesterday. Just saying like.

[Pretty Boy]

Both Dundee and Kilmarnock were chanting the banned BB song yesterday. Just saying like.

Is the key difference not thay they omit a certain word beginning with f? Not sure either use the term 'Billy Boys' either.

[Since90+2]

The tune to the BB is not banned.

For instance Killie says "Hello Hello we are the Killie Boys" its the lyrics shortly after that are banned for obvious reasons.

[Sir David Gray]

Is the key difference not thay they omit a certain word beginning with f? Not sure either use the term 'Billy Boys' either.

:agree: They don't use the term "Billy Boys" nor do they say they're up to their knees in fenian blood either.

Kilmarnock fans call themselves the "Killie Boys" and the Dundee fans call themselves the "Dundee Boys".

[Baldy Foghorn]

Sure the BB tune comes from the American Confederate days of the deep South etc.....Marshall something springs to mind for some reason?:confused:

[Pretty Boy]

Sure the BB tune comes from the American Confederate days of the deep South etc.....Marshall something springs to mind for some reason?:confused:

Marching Through Georgia.

It was a song sung by Union veterans as opposed to the Confedaracy though. I wrote an essay on songs of the Civil War once!

[Baldy Foghorn]

Marching Through Georgia.

It was a song sung by Union veterans as opposed to the Confedaracy though. I wrote an essay on songs of the Civil War once!

Good knowledge PB.......:aok:

[Baldy Foghorn]

Eradicating sectarianism and bigotry isn't being helped by our state broadcaster making light of the subject on Only an Excuse, a program which is most associated with Scottish football or to be precise Rangers, Celtic and Sevco

Great point Sausage, the Larkhall sketch was brutal......Comedy?, not on my watch!!!!

[Kojock]

Good knowledge PB.......:aok:


"Billy Boys", also titled "The Billy Boys", is a loyalist song from Glasgow, sung to the tune of "Marching Through Georgia." It originated in the 1930s as the signature song of one of the Glasgow razor gangs led by Billy Fullerton and later became viewed to reflect the long running sectarian divide in the city. It is associated in particular with Rangers F.C..

[Betty Boop]

:agree: They don't use the term "Billy Boys" nor do they say they're up to their knees in fenian blood either.

Kilmarnock fans call themselves the "Killie Boys" and the Dundee fans call themselves the "Dundee Boys".
Apparently Dundee fans replace Fenian with Arab blood. Not a lot of difference, still offensive IMO.

[CraigHibee]

I remember a few seasons ago when celtic came through they had their own stewards in the away end, after the match there were several celtic fans banned due to singing who were pointed out by their stewards.

If The Rangers are "so determined" to try and stamp this kind of behaviour out then surely they should adopt a similar plan? The way I see it is unless they get pulled up by sfa etc then they don't give a monkeys

[SouthMoroccoStu]

What truly amazes me is that they still allow supporters in with the red hand of Ulster flag and that the sound system still plays the flute band version of Follow Follow.

Surely these little changes would be a start

[Lucius Apuleius]

What truly amazes me is that they still allow supporters in with the red hand of Ulster flag and that the sound system still plays the flute band version of Follow Follow.

Surely these little changes would be a start

Said it before though, what if they have come over from Ulster?

[SouthMoroccoStu]

Said it before though, what if they have come over from Ulster?

Do you think they have?

[Lucius Apuleius]

Do you think they have?

Immaterial what I think. A lot of their support does. Is it only the Ulster flag that should be banned or all flags?

[Sir David Gray]

Apparently Dundee fans replace Fenian with Arab blood. Not a lot of difference, still offensive IMO.

Not really.

They're not referring to actual Arabs.

[givescotlandfreedom]

Do you think they have?

There were some from my train through who I suspect didn't happen to like that club for the right reason but flags aside the club with its mock flute music with negative reference to Dublin you mentioned, attempting to hijack the armed forces (a sticking point due to the behaviour of some to catholics in NI) and the ramming all of Britishness (another reference to NI) is stoking it up and lays happily to their policy of selling bigotry and not giving two hoots about the damage it causes. I'm always reading about how much they've done to tackle it. Bull****. They stir it up and let the cash roll in.

[Colr]

Not really.

They're not referring to actual Arabs.

Just overzealous grounds men!!

Still surprising someone hasn't taken offence yet!! Racism!!!

[Sir David Gray]

What truly amazes me is that they still allow supporters in with the red hand of Ulster flag and that the sound system still plays the flute band version of Follow Follow.

Surely these little changes would be a start

I'm not quite sure how you can ban people from waving a flag that is officially recognised by many different organisations, particularly in a sporting context, to represent Northern Ireland.

[Hermit Crab]

Big Frank should sit in with the supporters he represents, I don't see that other rep boy at away games in with the fans.......

[Doncaster_Hibby]

Rangers are a club rotten to their very core. A truly vile, bigotted institution. The whole rangers support were heard yesterday belting out loud and proud how they were "up to their knees in fenian blood". But yet again we will be fed the same old pish about "just a minority". Minority my arse!

****bags the lot of them. Utter lowlifes of the highest order.

Excellent comment.

[21.05.2016]

Big Frank should sit in with the supporters he represents, I don't see that other rep boy at away games in with the fans.......

In fairness, i've heard he was in the mash tun a few weeks back speaking to supporters and gaining their views. I've also seen him communicate to the fans via his twitter account.

[Colr]

Said it before though, what if they have come over from Ulster?

The west' sectarian problems came from Ulster according to Tom Devine

[CropleyWasGod]

Big Frank should sit in with the supporters he represents, I don't see that other rep boy at away games in with the fans.......
They were both at Ibrox. FD was definitely with the fans. Amit, by his Tweets, also seems to have been

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[Hermit Crab]

In fairness, i've heard he was in the mash tun a few weeks back speaking to supporters and gaining their views. I've also seen him communicate to the fans via his twitter account.


He needs to be in the trenches with the troops, how else can he relate to the way we are treated at places such as Ibrox, he won't be getting voted back in if that's the case. Being a rep is about doing more than getting a free lunch,comp tickets and a seat in directors box at matches.

[JimBHibees]

He needs to be in the trenches with the troops, how else can he relate to the way we are treated at places such as Ibrox, he won't be getting voted back in if that's the case. Being a rep is about doing more than getting a free lunch,comp tickets and a seat in directors box at matches.

Any need ?

[Hermit Crab]

Any need ?


What's wrong with that? Only an opinion.

[Pretty Boy]

He needs to be in the trenches with the troops, how else can he relate to the way we are treated at places such as Ibrox, he won't be getting voted back in if that's the case. Being a rep is about doing more than getting a free lunch,comp tickets and a seat in directors box at matches.

Amit was in with the fans and on our bus at Dumbarton as well.

[Hermit Crab]

Amit was in with the fans and on our bus at Dumbarton as well.


Fair enough.

[21.05.2016]

Take it its being swept under the carpet then aye?

Usual routine:
the **** in their MAJORITY belt out more bigotted sectarian hatred
police and authorities notified
rangers roll out some bull **** "just a minority, not representative of the club" statement
the media play it down as much as possible
the authorities hide away till it all dies down

same old story :yawn:

The SFA can stick all their "kick sectarianism and bigotry out" campaigns up their arse from now on as its hypocrisy at its very best . THEY are part of the problem. Instead of taking proper action they hide away and sweep it under the carpet as to avoid dare upsetting the OF. Absolutely pathetic.

[JimBHibees]

What's wrong with that? Only an opinion.

Just seemed ridiculously critical and apparently wrong also. In the trenches with the fans, won't be getting voted back in and free lunch, no need.

[marinello59]

He needs to be in the trenches with the troops, how else can he relate to the way we are treated at places such as Ibrox, he won't be getting voted back in if that's the case. Being a rep is about doing more than getting a free lunch,comp tickets and a seat in directors box at matches.
................in the trenches with the troops? :faf:
It was ninety minutes at Ibrox, not a tour of duty in Afghanistan.

[FranckSuzy]

He needs to be in the trenches with the troops, how else can he relate to the way we are treated at places such as Ibrox, he won't be getting voted back in if that's the case. Being a rep is about doing more than getting a free lunch,comp tickets and a seat in directors box at matches.

I'm not standing the next time then :tee hee:

In fairness to Amit (and Frank), there is a lot more to their role(s) than it would maybe first appear. If you had heard their presentations at the AGM, it would be clear to you, Happy Harry :greengrin

[Sir David Gray]

................in the trenches with the troops? :faf:
It was ninety minutes at Ibrox, not a tour of duty in Afghanistan.

Sometimes it's a bit difficult to make the distinction. :greengrin

[matty_f]

He needs to be in the trenches with the troops, how else can he relate to the way we are treated at places such as Ibrox, he won't be getting voted back in if that's the case. Being a rep is about doing more than getting a free lunch,comp tickets and a seat in directors box at matches.

IIRC, the job remit when it was advertised, stated one of the duties as representing the Club as a Director at away games.
Neither Frank nor Amit are kid-on directors, they have club duties to fulfil at the same time as balancing the fan-rep aspect of the role.

Your post comes across as ridiculously ignorant, imho.

[c31]

Still not heard their take on what happened, hopefully they will give some sort of statement or are the being told not to!!!

[Jonnyboy]

He needs to be in the trenches with the troops, how else can he relate to the way we are treated at places such as Ibrox, he won't be getting voted back in if that's the case. Being a rep is about doing more than getting a free lunch,comp tickets and a seat in directors box at matches.


Amit was in with the fans and on our bus at Dumbarton as well.

Poor show, HC. You are clearly in the wrong here and an apology is warranted IMO

[Hermit Crab]

IIRC, the job remit when it was advertised, stated one of the duties as representing the Club as a Director at away games.
Neither Frank nor Amit are kid-on directors, they have club duties to fulfil at the same time as balancing the fan-rep aspect of the role.

Your post comes across as ridiculously ignorant, imho.



They are our voice, they go to the club with issues raised by us, the fans. They wouldn't get any issues raised by the fans in the directors box. Thats just how i feel about it.

[Danderhall Hibs]

They are our voice, they go to the club with issues raised by us, the fans. They would get any issues raised by the fans in the directors box. Thats just how i feel about it.

They don't only get to hear our gripes at the match though do they?

[Hermit Crab]

Poor show, HC. You are clearly in the wrong here and an apology is warranted IMO


C'mon JB, this place is all about expressing opinions, not asking everyone to agree with me. If going by PB's post, that tells me he's either been to two away games all season or been in with the fans twice.

[Jonnyboy]

C'mon JB, this place is all about expressing opinions, not asking everyone to agree with me. If going by PB's post, that tells me he's either been to two away games all season or been in with the fans twice.

It was the 'free lunch' jibe that was out of order IMO. Both Frank and Amit are freely available to fans. They can't be everywhere at once!

[Hermit Crab]

They don't only get to hear our gripes at the match though do they?


One of the main sources of info, the fans at games. A visible and an approachable presence open to all. Not everybody has Facebook or Twitter to air their views.

[CropleyWasGod]

One of the main sources of info, the fans at games. A visible and an approachable presence open to all. Not everybody has Facebook or Twitter to air their views.

Again, FD was with the supporters at Ibrox. He actually got criticised for that.

[Stantons Angel]

IIRC, the job remit when it was advertised, stated one of the duties as representing the Club as a Director at away games.
Neither Frank nor Amit are kid-on directors, they have club duties to fulfil at the same time as balancing the fan-rep aspect of the role.

Your post comes across as ridiculously ignorant, imho.

Correct!

They are fan's reps and also carry out other duties on behalf of the club by attending funerals,meetings and fans forums. These are all aspects of recognizing the supporters through showing commitment to their views and requests.
I know Frank well and he is always available to listen and give his opinion on all matters Hibs. I dont go to games home and away to look for these representatives as i usually like to watch what is happening on the field of play. So i dont know if they are at every game or not.

I am sure they both know what the treatment and bigotry at Ibrox is all about and i know for a fact they have indeed informed the club each time we have played there the past two seasons, as i have myself. We all have opinions and are free to express them but the comments made in the OP come over as a statement rather than a logical opinion on facts gained?

If they are to do a good job for us the supporters they dont need adverse comments about them getting a lunch or a free ticket to games.
Thats part and parcel of being on the board of a football club and i dont see what adverse effect it makes to us being represented?

Today it was announced that the SFA are to do nothing about the sectarian bile we were subjected to last monday, it might be better writing to the SFA with your opinions on this happening again, as we all knew it would!

[silverhibee]

He didnt do anyone out of a ticket. At ibrox the comp tickets for unstripped players and staff are in the away end. At most other grounds they sit in the home end but ranyers choose to do it this way and have always done it this way. So the only person frank stopped going was either an unstripped player/youth player or a member of backroom staff ;)

No they haven't.

[silverhibee]

I'm not standing the next time then :tee hee:

In fairness to Amit (and Frank), there is a lot more to their role(s) than it would maybe first appear. If you had heard their presentations at the AGM, it would be clear to you, Happy Harry :greengrin

The Mercs are very nice. :greengrin

[Hermit Crab]

Again, FD was with the supporters at Ibrox. He actually got criticised for that.


Correct, wrongly criticised as thats where they should be, not in the directors box.

[matty_f]

Correct, wrongly criticised as thats where they should be, not in the directors box.

No, they should do both.

[PatHead]

Frank was sitting right in front of me in the first half then disappeared. Maybe he did both?

Been impressed with the effort he has put in as a Director since his election.

[vuefrom1875]

He's doing ok.

[Ozyhibby]

I'd like them to be in the directors box so they can report back to us exactly what's going on. I don't need to see them in the away end, if I have a complaint I know how to get them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bigwheel]

I'd like them to be in the directors box so they can report back to us exactly what's going on. I don't need to see them in the away end, if I have a complaint I know how to get them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

....such as rating the prawn sandwiches ? And how comfy the seats are?

Their job is to represent the normal fan to the board...how can they do that if they see the world football game through the same lens as all other directors?

To me, it is very important that they regularly sit with us fans and experience it as we do....then they won't need to rely on anyone getting in touch with them..they will know it as much as any other fan...

[Golden Bear]

....such as rating the prawn sandwiches ? And how comfy the seats are?

Their job is to represent the normal fan to the board...how can they do that if they see the world football game through the same lens as all other directors?

To me, it is very important that they regularly sit with us fans and experience it as we do....then they won't need to rely on anyone getting in touch with them..they will know it as much as any other fan...

I suspect that both these guys are ordinary fans and will already have spent countless years sitting with, and in the company of us plebs. They'll not see us as some form of alien species that's for sure.

[Pretty Boy]

I suspect that both these guys are ordinary fans and will already have spent countless years sitting with, and in the company of us plebs. They'll not see us as some form of alien species that's for sure.

I reckon you are talking the fingers of a blind carpenters hand required to count the number of Hibs games Frank Dougan has missed in his adult life.

[Famous Fiver]

So how voluble has the said Frank been on the sectarian abuse on show all afternoon?

His silence is deafening.

Waste of time becoming the fans rep on the board if his head goes in the sand at times like this.

Let's hear from you Frank.

[marinello59]

So how voluble has the said Frank been on the sectarian abuse on show all afternoon?

His silence is deafening.

Waste of time becoming the fans rep on the board if his head goes in the sand at times like this.

Let's hear from you Frank.

It's not up to FD to make a statement, it's down to the board as a whole if one is required.
How do you know he has not reported back to the board on what he saw already?
The sectarian song was with the offending lines was sung briefly after their goals were scored. What other abuse was on show? I saw none. If we are going to make an official complaint about something over egging the pudding will do our cause no good.
The Sevco fans were well out of order but using this incident to attack our own club is just plain wrong.

[Ozyhibby]

I believe we are dealing with it the Hibs way. [emoji3]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Famous Fiver]

Abuse was both verbal and physical.

By all means do it the Hibs way but let the Hibs fans hear about it.

The silence is deafening.

[maturehibby]

Big Frank should sit in with the supporters he represents, I don't see that other rep boy at away games in with the fans.......

Well said HC agree wholeheartedly - not too often we agree

[Kojock]

So how voluble has the said Frank been on the sectarian abuse on show all afternoon?

His silence is deafening.

Waste of time becoming the fans rep on the board if his head goes in the sand at times like this.

Let's hear from you Frank.

We have two fans reps so don't understand why you're targeting just the one.

[Pretty Boy]

We have two fans reps so don't understand why you're targeting just the one.

I still don't understand why either is being targeted tbh.

I'm sure Hibs are more than aware of what went on at Ibrox and that info will have come in part from at least one of the fans reps.

[marinello59]

I still don't understand why either is being targeted tbh.

I'm sure Hibs are more than aware of what went on at Ibrox and that info will have come in part from at least one of the fans reps.

Exactly.

[Ozyhibby]

I still don't understand why either is being targeted tbh.

I'm sure Hibs are more than aware of what went on at Ibrox and that info will have come in part from at least one of the fans reps.

Maybe the fans are feeling frustrated by the club's acceptance of the status quo and are letting the fans reps know so they can report back to the board?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pretty Boy]

Maybe the fans are feeling frustrated by the club's acceptance of the status quo and are letting the fans reps know so they can report back to the board?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Letting them know by moaning about them on here? Surely contacting them via email or an old fashioned letter would be a better way to contact them directly as opposed to hoping they pick it up on hibs.net?

Some of the stuff aimed at them is out of order as well imo.

[Carheenlea]

I think Hibs will be prioritising compiling reports of incidents and preparing a complaint with regards the missile throwing and treatment of fans rather than complaining about sectarian chants. This should be the priority and I believe the club will stand behind the supporters on this issue and forward their concerns in the correct manner in due course.
The sectarian chants is a more difficult one as it is the responsibility of the SFA, SPFL and Police Scotland to take action and attempt to tackle the problem seriously. I don`t expect Hibs to speak publicly about the vociferous sectarian singing at Ibrox, but I`d like to think some dialogue behind closed doors will take place between ourselves and those bodies in order to prod them along and try and insert some pressure into them actually taking action. Where it will be easier to speak publicly about it will be the next time Rangers visit Easter Road.

[CropleyWasGod]

So how voluble has the said Frank been on the sectarian abuse on show all afternoon?

His silence is deafening.

Waste of time becoming the fans rep on the board if his head goes in the sand at times like this.

Let's hear from you Frank.
Why don't you just ask him? He's very approachable.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[jabis]

I had to stop reading,never met Frank or Amit,but by God they do more for hibs than any of the snidey people on here.

[Ozyhibby]

Letting them know by moaning about them on here? Surely contacting them via email or an old fashioned letter would be a better way to contact them directly as opposed to hoping they pick it up on hibs.net?

Some of the stuff aimed at them is out of order as well imo.

I'm not criticising Frank or Amit. Was just looking to see what might be behind the reason some people are.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kojock]

I still don't understand why either is being targeted tbh.

I'm sure Hibs are more than aware of what went on at Ibrox and that info will have come in part from at least one of the fans reps.

Neither do I. Being a fans rep is a poisoned chalice. Damned if they do, damned if they don't. If Frank doesn't agree with the club stance on any matter he will speak his mind.

[hibs0666]

So how voluble has the said Frank been on the sectarian abuse on show all afternoon?

His silence is deafening.

Waste of time becoming the fans rep on the board if his head goes in the sand at times like this.

Let's hear from you Frank.

Don't be snide about it - if you want to know why don't you contact him directly?

[Ringothedog]

When did we become so soft ? Every visit I have had to to ibrox since the early 70's has been the same. They don't like us we don't like them, accept it for what it is. It will never change.

[FranckSuzy]

When did we become so soft ? Every visit I have had to to ibrox since the early 70's has been the same. They don't like us we don't like them, accept it for what it is. It will never change.

I don't think it's anything to do with being "soft". Years ago, racism and sexism were tolerated but not now. Should those who campaigned for these issues to be stamped out just have accepted it as well?

[CropleyWasGod]

When did we become so soft ? Every visit I have had to to ibrox since the early 70's has been the same. They don't like us we don't like them, accept it for what it is. It will never change.
It will never change if people sit back and accept it. It's not about people becoming "so soft". It's about people developing respect and decency, and having the balls to actually try and do something about it.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[Dashing Bob S]

It will never change if people sit back and accept it. It's not about people becoming "so soft". It's about people developing respect and decency, and having the balls to actually try and do something about it.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

This.

Thick, ignorant ********s and total losers have been indulged in Scotland long enough, and astonishingly allowed to set and maintain a viscous and reactionary cultural and social agenda based on fantasy, and one that should have been torn up for bum-paper decades ago.

If we're going to become a modern democracy instead of a backwater for embarrassing mutants, it's time we grew up and binned this crap.

[cabbageandribs1875]

well said boab

[snedzuk]

This.

Thick, ignorant ********s and total losers have been indulged in Scotland long enough, and astonishingly allowed to set and maintain a viscous and reactionary cultural and social agenda based on fantasy, and one that should have been torn up for bum-paper decades ago.

If we're going to become a modern democracy instead of a backwater for embarrassing mutants, it's time we grew up and binned this crap.

This post should be required reading for every scottish politician - never seen the whole embarrasing farce summed up so succintly.

[GreenOnions]

This.

Thick, ignorant ********s and total losers have been indulged in Scotland long enough, and astonishingly allowed to set and maintain a viscous and reactionary cultural and social agenda based on fantasy, and one that should have been torn up for bum-paper decades ago.

If we're going to become a modern democracy instead of a backwater for embarrassing mutants, it's time we grew up and binned this crap.

I realise I'm swimming against the tide on this thread but I just can't agree at all.

A "modern democracy" must be tolerant of different behaviours and points of view - whether we like them or not. The more we censure these things the more intolerant and dictatorial we would become IMO.

In a "modern democracy" shouldn't all behaviours be legal unless it can be shown clearly that they impact substantially in some kind of unfair, negative way on another person? Clearly violence ticks those boxes and should be illegal. The chanting of slogans / singing of "tribal" songs is more complicated IMO.

The more behaviours that are made illegal - the more difficult it is to police these consistently and effectively. Also - the more nuanced becomes the interpretation of what represents a transgression and what does not. Excessive legislation in this area would almost certainly result in competitive "banning" of more and more words and phrases and constant argument about who is more offended than whom by which particular song/phrase.

I think our law just now gives significant discretion in this area and enables the police to take into account context in a way that more "banning" would be unlikely to allow.

In the case of football fans I feel that a more robust reaction would be seen from the police if gangs of young men were marching through the streets singing these songs compared to if they were being sung within the confines of a football stadium where all attendees have made a conscious decision to attend in full knowledge about what happens there.

Let's focus on dealing with violent acts please. Legislation on which words/songs can be used/sung will not change people's views anyway.

[superfurryhibby]

This.

Thick, ignorant ********s and total losers have been indulged in Scotland long enough, and astonishingly allowed to set and maintain a viscous and reactionary cultural and social agenda based on fantasy, and one that should have been torn up for bum-paper decades ago.

If we're going to become a modern democracy instead of a backwater for embarrassing mutants, it's time we grew up and binned this crap.

The sentiments are totally correct in your post DBS, however.........

We are a modern democracy and in many respects a progressive country. We have a proud history and tradition which embraces social justice. The people you refer to do not define our country, they are an anachronism, a relic from another age that has been allowed to persist.

Dismantling some of the institutions which have helped perpetuate the sectarian elements is well underway. The radical shift in our politics in the last parliamentary elections and previous Scottish Parliament elections are testimony to this.

The legislative process has a part to play too and at least our current government at Holyrood have tried to address it. Maybe not as well as we would have liked, but it has raised awareness and given some authority and substance to anti discriminatory practice.

Football is a soft target, an easy out for the media when it comes to sectarianism. If people focused their attention on the bigger fish, we would see change a whole lot quicker.

[JimBHibees]

I realise I'm swimming against the tide on this thread but I just can't agree at all.

A "modern democracy" must be tolerant of different behaviours and points of view - whether we like them or not. The more we censure these things the more intolerant and dictatorial we would become IMO.

In a "modern democracy" shouldn't all behaviours be legal unless it can be shown clearly that they impact substantially in some kind of unfair, negative way on another person? Clearly violence ticks those boxes and should be illegal. The chanting of slogans / singing of "tribal" songs is more complicated IMO.

The more behaviours that are made illegal - the more difficult it is to police these consistently and effectively. Also - the more nuanced becomes the interpretation of what represents a transgression and what does not. Excessive legislation in this area would almost certainly result in competitive "banning" of more and more words and phrases and constant argument about who is more offended than whom by which particular song/phrase.

I think our law just now gives significant discretion in this area and enables the police to take into account context in a way that more "banning" would be unlikely to allow.

In the case of football fans I feel that a more robust reaction would be seen from the police if gangs of young men were marching through the streets singing these songs compared to if they were being sung within the confines of a football stadium where all attendees have made a conscious decision to attend in full knowledge about what happens there.

Let's focus on dealing with violent acts please. Legislation on which words/songs can be used/sung will not change people's views anyway.

Tend to disagree in thae main with this, I think it should be very clear which songs are unacceptable in this day and age. RFC themselves were able pretty quickly to come up with a list of the songs which shouldnt be sung when UEFA were taking an interest. This can be done again not rocket science IMO.

[lapsedhibee]

In the case of football fans I feel that a more robust reaction would be seen from the police if gangs of young men were marching through the streets singing these songs compared to if they were being sung within the confines of a football stadium where all attendees have made a conscious decision to attend in full knowledge about what happens there.

Let's focus on dealing with violent acts please. Legislation on which words/songs can be used/sung will not change people's views anyway.

Apologies if I've missed you rebutting this point in an earlier post, but I can't see how your argument here about sectarian language differs from a similar argument that could be made about racist behaviour, ie that so long as white yoofs don't go parading through the street singing racist songs and they're not physically violent towards black peeps, what's the harm in them chanting racist songs in fitba grounds/throwing softish bananas on to the pitch/etcetcetc.

[Ozyhibby]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/05/cf0d58bfb45681be267524770f4e8c08.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CropleyWasGod]

Phil McG has tweeted that the "very experienced "match observer has included the chants in his report.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[monktonharp]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/05/cf0d58bfb45681be267524770f4e8c08.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalkthat response, does nothing other than cover her company's own back. Are they likely to back up any claims from the general public, that those songs with vehemently blasted out? I think not, and her comments are worth nothing .

[greenlex]

that response, does nothing other than cover her company's own back. Are they likely to back up any claims from the general public, that those songs with vehemently blasted out? I think not, and her comments are worth nothing .

I think it is an admission that the songs are a problem and that they as a broadcaster are aware and actively are trying and did indeed try to mitigate the effect on the viewer. DefinAtely worthy of note.

[Argylehibby]

I think it is an admission that the songs are a problem and that they as a broadcaster are aware and actively are trying and did indeed try to mitigate the effect on the viewer. DefinAtely worthy of note.

:agree: this actually states that a national broadcaster expects, or at least on this occassion expected, this type of behaviour to occur and took action ahead of the game to reduce the effect. I see this statement as a confirmation that regardless of claims coming from the home club that day that they do all they can and it's only a minority etc etc the broadcaster knows it's not the reality of the situation.

[Kojock]

Maybe BT Sports could make a statement to the effect that if Sectarian chanting continues they will refuse to air Scottish games and claim compensation from the SPFL / SFA for loss of revenue. I won't hold my breath though.

[SausageSurprise]

that response, does nothing other than cover her company's own back. Are they likely to back up any claims from the general public, that those songs with vehemently blasted out? I think not, and her comments are worth nothing .

It's time for ofcom to be informed. They were quick enough to apologise for the use of swearing by an individual when it was clearly audible but when it was clearly audible that there was disgusting chants from the vast majority of the home fans the silence was deafening

I'll be looking into how to complain later on. For all it'll be worth mind you, but if enough of us do likewise then surely it's a legal obligation to take action.

If Russell Brand and Jonathan Ross can get in deep doo-doo for telling Manuel the waiter his granddaughter was a durty wee tert then sectarian and bigoted behaviour must be dealt with accordingly

[GreenOnions]

Apologies if I've missed you rebutting this point in an earlier post, but I can't see how your argument here about sectarian language differs from a similar argument that could be made about racist behaviour, ie that so long as white yoofs don't go parading through the street singing racist songs and they're not physically violent towards black peeps, what's the harm in them chanting racist songs in fitba grounds/throwing softish bananas on to the pitch/etcetcetc.

Yes - you have missed my explanation on that specific point in an earlier post on this thread. I've posted a couple of times before the one to which you replied.

The issue of "race" is given (quite correctly in my view) specific additional legal protection. As I explained earlier - I don't think there's sufficient justification to extend the same principle to the west of scotland sectarian problem.

[marinello59]

It's time for ofcom to be informed. They were quick enough to apologise for the use of swearing by an individual when it was clearly audible but when it was clearly audible that there was disgusting chants from the vast majority of the home fans the silence was deafening

I'll be looking into how to complain later on. For all it'll be worth mind you, but if enough of us do likewise then surely it's a legal obligation to take action.

If Russell Brand and Jonathan Ross can get in deep doo-doo for telling Manuel the waiter his granddaughter was a durty wee tert then sectarian and bigoted behaviour must be dealt with accordingly

BT Sport's explanation should surely be welcomed by yourself then in that they took steps to supress any offensive chants. Of course if you don't think that is enough you are going to have to avoid coverage of any live matches given that we frequently hear chants aimed at officials, players, opposition fans and managers calling them ****ers, *******s and worse. You must have been absolutely apoplectic when the refugee song could be heard being belted out at Easter Road, who did you complain to about that? It would be impossible to broadcast live Scottish football without any offensive chanting being picked up by the microphones.
BT Sport are not the bad guys here and neither are those on the board at our club, it's Sevco and the bigoted element of their support we should be targeting.

[21.05.2016]

This.

Thick, ignorant ********s and total losers have been indulged in Scotland long enough, and astonishingly allowed to set and maintain a viscous and reactionary cultural and social agenda based on fantasy, and one that should have been torn up for bum-paper decades ago.

If we're going to become a modern democracy instead of a backwater for embarrassing mutants, it's time we grew up and binned this crap.

Absolutely spot on Bob. They are an embarrassment to the whole nation.

[Baldy Foghorn]

BT Sport's explanation should surely be welcomed by yourself then in that they took steps to supress any offensive chants. Of course if you don't think that is enough you are going to have to avoid coverage of any live matches given that we frequently hear chants aimed at officials, players, opposition fans and managers calling them ****ers, *******s and worse. You must have been absolutely apoplectic when the refugee song could be heard being belted out at Easter Road, who did you complain to about that? It would be impossible to broadcast live Scottish football without any offensive chanting being picked up by the microphones.
BT Sport are not the bad guys here and neither are those on the board at our club, it's Sevco and the bigoted element of their support we should be targeting.

:agree::agree::agree:

And the SFA/SPFL for burying their heads in the sand and doing nothing about it whatsoever

[Skol]

Before we get all high and mighty maybe we should consider our own 'problems' particularly when at Tynecastle.

I dont feel comfortable with the mercer, skacel and thomson stuff that is belted out by a significant minority and by many who really should know better.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

They were quick enough to apologise for the use of swearing by an individual when it was clearly audible but when it was clearly audible that there was disgusting chants from the vast majority of the home fans the silence was deafening

I've never understood that one, pointed it out in the boozer on numerous occasions.

[monktonharp]

BT Sport's explanation should surely be welcomed by yourself then in that they took steps to supress any offensive chants. Of course if you don't think that is enough you are going to have to avoid coverage of any live matches given that we frequently hear chants aimed at officials, players, opposition fans and managers calling them ****ers, *******s and worse. You must have been absolutely apoplectic when the refugee song could be heard being belted out at Easter Road, who did you complain to about that? It would be impossible to broadcast live Scottish football without any offensive chanting being picked up by the microphones.
BT Sport are not the bad guys here and neither are those on the board at our club, it's Sevco and the bigoted element of their support we should be targeting.I am certainly not making BT out to be the bad guys, but I did think thr reply from them was only a "we've done our bit" style of reply. a bit like The Rangers, and the sfa/spfl. can BT not raise their concerns with those bodies, or have they?

[Ronniekirk]

This.

Thick, ignorant ********s and total losers have been indulged in Scotland long enough, and astonishingly allowed to set and maintain a viscous and reactionary cultural and social agenda based on fantasy, and one that should have been torn up for bum-paper decades ago.

If we're going to become a modern democracy instead of a backwater for embarrassing mutants, it's time we grew up and binned this crap.

But sadly there are plenty that want them back into the top flight ,and are willing to collude and turn a blind eye to the nonsense that goes on .i haven't missed them one bit although it's always nice to beat them .
When is a Minority not a Minority It's obvious when fans from every side of the stadium join in in those songs .There is a defiance ,and if they don't be more proactive to stop it then other clubs and fans should be joining together to make it clear in the strongest terms it is not acceptable and force the Police and Football Authorities to come up with a better plan to do something different ,as it's all too easy to be complacent and say we can't do any more to stop it and allow the status quo to prevail
As for abuse and items thrown at away fans It would be easy to have cameras targeting the areas where it comes from and study the pictures ,identify some of the culprits and deal harshly with them But at present there is a cosy relationship between police stewards and fans that seems to allow things to continue to happen game after game without mutch recourse so fans aren't held accountable for thier actions .

[NadeAteMyLunch!]

When did we become so soft ? Every visit I have had to to ibrox since the early 70's has been the same. They don't like us we don't like them, accept it for what it is. It will never change.

They used to throw bananas at black players back then as well. It doesn't happen now because people spoke out about it.

[truehibernian]

Maybe BT Sports could make a statement to the effect that if Sectarian chanting continues they will refuse to air Scottish games and claim compensation from the SPFL / SFA for loss of revenue. I won't hold my breath though.

Why ? Surely in the chain of events the broadcasters are the means to provide evidence ? It's the football authorities that can truly change things by penalising them by points deductions - ALL clubs - the fact is none of the 42 clubs have agreed individual responsibility for their fans - you can see why, but if it's as glaringly obvious as at Ibrox, deduct them 10 points - then it would stop - it needs SFA and SPFL to set a precedent !

[Lucius Apuleius]

Yes - you have missed my explanation on that specific point in an earlier post on this thread. I've posted a couple of times before the one to which you replied.

The issue of "race" is given (quite correctly in my view) specific additional legal protection. As I explained earlier - I don't think there's sufficient justification to extend the same principle to the west of scotland sectarian problem.

Don't see why not. Is there any difference to someone calling me a black barsteward to being called a fenian one? Both factually incorrect by the way.

[Kojock]

Why ? Surely in the chain of events the broadcasters are the means to provide evidence ? It's the football authorities that can truly change things by penalising them by points deductions - ALL clubs - the fact is none of the 42 clubs have agreed individual responsibility for their fans - you can see why, but if it's as glaringly obvious as at Ibrox, deduct them 10 points - then it would stop - it needs SFA and SPFL to set a precedent !

Because the SFA and SPFL are cash driven, deprive them of much needed revenue then watch how quickly they will take action.

[GreenOnions]

Don't see why not. Is there any difference to someone calling me a black barsteward to being called a fenian one? Both factually incorrect by the way.

There are reasons the law provides additional protection for certain groups. It's specifically taking into account recent evidence of the greater impact of abuse/discrimination on certain groups due to such things as their greater vulnerability, smaller numbers etc.

Whilst I'm not denying that Catholics/Protestants suffer abuse/discrimination from each other it's not really clear to me that in Scotland either group falls into the category that deserves additional legal protection over and above that which exists for the majority of the population.

No-one suggests additional legislation to protect from abuse people who are overweight, people with red hair, athiests etc etc. The implication of this is surely that the law is focusing on the different impacts of abuse rather than the abuse itself. IMO - this is the correct approach as it provides protection where it is most needed whilst interfering as little as possible with freedom of speech.

So - to use your example - whilst both comments would be vile - calling you a "black barsteward" would be significantly more serious than calling you a "fenian one" - IMHO of course

[Lucius Apuleius]

There are reasons the law provides additional protection for certain groups. It's specifically taking into account recent evidence of the greater impact of abuse/discrimination on certain groups due to such things as their greater vulnerability, smaller numbers etc.

Whilst I'm not denying that Catholics/Protestants suffer abuse/discrimination from each other it's not really clear to me that in Scotland either group falls into the category that deserves additional legal protection over and above that which exists for the majority of the population.

No-one suggests additional legislation to protect from abuse people who are overweight, people with red hair, athiests etc etc. The implication of this is surely that the law is focusing on the different impacts of abuse rather than the abuse itself. IMO - this is the correct approach as it provides protection where it is most needed whilst interfering as little as possible with freedom of speech.

So - to use your example - whilst both comments would be vile - calling you a "black barsteward" would be significantly more serious than calling you a "fenian one" - IMHO of course

Respect your opinion mate but I do disagree. Both are vile. None of them actually bother me however. Every time I have been to a hun or yam game I have been called a fenian. Not a trip went by in Nigeria when I was not called oyibo which passes as whiteman. Whilst not being derogatory, enough people would get upset if I called a Nigerian black but funnily enough none of them Nigerian.

[superfurryhibby]

Respect your opinion mate but I do disagree. Both are vile. None of them actually bother me however. Every time I have been to a hun or yam game I have been called a fenian. Not a trip went by in Nigeria when I was not called oyibo which passes as whiteman. Whilst not being derogatory, enough people would get upset if I called a Nigerian black but funnily enough none of them Nigerian.

I'm not aware that describing someone as being black is considered racially offensive?

[Betty Boop]

Before we get all high and mighty maybe we should consider our own 'problems' particularly when at Tynecastle.

I dont feel comfortable with the mercer, skacel and thomson stuff that is belted out by a significant minority and by many who really should know better.

Exactly :agree:

[Ozyhibby]

There are reasons the law provides additional protection for certain groups. It's specifically taking into account recent evidence of the greater impact of abuse/discrimination on certain groups due to such things as their greater vulnerability, smaller numbers etc.

Whilst I'm not denying that Catholics/Protestants suffer abuse/discrimination from each other it's not really clear to me that in Scotland either group falls into the category that deserves additional legal protection over and above that which exists for the majority of the population.

No-one suggests additional legislation to protect from abuse people who are overweight, people with red hair, athiests etc etc. The implication of this is surely that the law is focusing on the different impacts of abuse rather than the abuse itself. IMO - this is the correct approach as it provides protection where it is most needed whilst interfering as little as possible with freedom of speech.

So - to use your example - whilst both comments would be vile - calling you a "black barsteward" would be significantly more serious than calling you a "fenian one" - IMHO of course

When my Dad finished school and went looking for an apprenticeship his school teacher gave him a list of firms that wouldn't hire Catholics, so that he wouldn't waste his time going for interviews.
Things are better now obviously, although every Catholic in the country knows that they can never be Prime Minister.
I think it's fair to say there is work still to be done.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Moulin Yarns]

When my Dad finished school and went looking for an apprenticeship his school teacher gave him a list of firms that wouldn't hire Catholics, so that he wouldn't waste his time going for interviews.
Things are better now obviously, although every Catholic in the country knows that they can never be Prime Minister.
I think it's fair to say there is work still to be done.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Or a queen :wink:

[GreenOnions]

When my Dad finished school and went looking for an apprenticeship his school teacher gave him a list of firms that wouldn't hire Catholics, so that he wouldn't waste his time going for interviews.
Things are better now obviously, although every Catholic in the country knows that they can never be Prime Minister.
I think it's fair to say there is work still to be done.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree completely. Unfortunately - many people hold prejudices about all sorts of things. However - we need to consider two things: How best to bring about improvements and how to avoid solving one problem by causing another.

Unfortunately - persuading people to change their views and their group/herd behaviour is a long game I fear

[mjhibby]

I find it incredibly sad and demoralising that a country that was looking for independence still has this horrible stain on its outlook. I was speaking to some guys at a night out who were from down south and supported various English teams and they couldn't get their heads round how nonsensical it is. It seems to be so imbedded in the national psyche that I fear it will be with us for generations and that is plain wrong on so many levels. There seems to be no will to be rid of it and TV stations have to resort to turning down the noise of the crowd so this bile is not so audible. It will only get worse if/ when sevco go up and the old form derbies resume with the inevitable carnage the police and the hospitals will be left to deal with. It's quite pathetic actually.

[Bad Martini]

Fabulous 14 pages, some genuine offence, some fake offence, some **** stirring on both sides and some utter radgeness I cannot even put into a bracket.

Some points of clarity by way of a summary:

Whether you LIKE it or not, songs inciting and/or containing religious hatred or intolerance ARE already, illegal.
Sectarianism is illegal.
Throwing bottles at people is illegal.
Songs glorifying terrorisim are illegal.

...for starters.

What is NOT illegal:

Songs about the Irish tattie famine.
The National Anthem of Ireland.
Rule Britannia
God save the queen

...whether one side LIKES them or not is completely irrelevant. They are legal. It is a different argument as to whether or not they should be sung at a fitba ground. They shouldnt. They have **** all to do with fitba on either side. BUT, they are NOT illegal.

Thats a side note tho.

They (both) sing songs that are offensive, sectarian and illegal. Concentrate on them. Sort them.

Err, ENDOF for me.

Peace out.

[Mikey09]

So have the SFA pulled them up for this yet?!

[Ozyhibby]

So have the SFA pulled them up for this yet?!

Think they are going for dignified silence like Hibs. [emoji6]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PatHead]

The the Rangers supporter in the office has said to me that after Manchester they did tone it down and this type of singing was in the minority. He says that since the club reformed in the 3rd division the problem is far worse. It is like they have a cause again and a lot of more tolerant supporters gave up on the club in the lower divisions. He had only heard it as bad in the cup game versus Celtic.

As it is getting worse again surely it has to be dealt with rather than letting another generation get this bile inbred to them.

It is a waste of time going down the "aggravated sectarian" route and they should simply charge people with breach of the peace.
The aggravated route is so hard to prove and he cited 2 examples. One of a friend who was arrested on thee way to Berwick for singing the Billy Boys song whilst having a scarf over his mouth. Made it to court but as they could not see his mouth on the video he was found not guilty. If he had been charged with breach of the peace he would have a criminal record.

The second example was the guy who jumped the wall at Tynecastle and was charged with a sectarian element. He basically said he didn't like Lennon for who he was and the police couldn't prove otherwise. He got away with it. If they had done him for assault with no sectarian element it is likely he would have been locked up.

Bottom line is it has to stop and the easiest route should be taken. Start lifting them for breach of the peace at a match and that will stop it.

[GreenOnions]

It is a waste of time going down the "aggravated sectarian" route and they should simply charge people with breach of the peace.
The aggravated route is so hard to prove and he cited 2 examples. One of a friend who was arrested on thee way to Berwick for singing the Billy Boys song whilst having a scarf over his mouth. Made it to court but as they could not see his mouth on the video he was found not guilty. If he had been charged with breach of the peace he would have a criminal record.

The second example was the guy who jumped the wall at Tynecastle and was charged with a sectarian element. He basically said he didn't like Lennon for who he was and the police couldn't prove otherwise. He got away with it. If they had done him for assault with no sectarian element it is likely he would have been locked up.

Bottom line is it has to stop and the easiest route should be taken. Start lifting them for breach of the peace at a match and that will stop it.

This is one of the reasons why I think the anti-sectarian legislation was a massive piece of grandstanding gesture politics from Alex Salmond. It will never be effective. What is the point in a new law that does things other existing laws do but is almost completely ineffective because convictions cannot be gained in court?

As I've said earlier in this thread - the anti-sectarian laws should be repealed and breach of the peace should be used where that occurs.

[Mikey09]

Think they are going for dignified silence like Hibs. [emoji6]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Shock...:rolleyes:

Nothing will change until clubs stand up to this. Wee bit surprised Hibs didn't make some kind of statement. Or did I miss that? So it's a case of "it's always been this way, so what's the problem?!"
You can know something is offensive to others without being offended yourself.

[cabbageandribs1875]

and so....it fizzles out as per, until the next visit to the bigot arena

[Lucius Apuleius]

I'm not aware that describing someone as being black is considered racially offensive?

Then you haven't worked for a southern states American company trying, and failing, to stop perceived racialism in Nigeria. 😉

[AndyM_1875]

I find it incredibly sad and demoralising that a country that was looking for independence still has this horrible stain on its outlook. I was speaking to some guys at a night out who were from down south and supported various English teams and they couldn't get their heads round how nonsensical it is. It seems to be so imbedded in the national psyche that I fear it will be with us for generations and that is plain wrong on so many levels. There seems to be no will to be rid of it and TV stations have to resort to turning down the noise of the crowd so this bile is not so audible. It will only get worse if/ when sevco go up and the old form derbies resume with the inevitable carnage the police and the hospitals will be left to deal with. It's quite pathetic actually.

My cousin is an A&E registrar in Glasgow. He says the last 3 years without the Old Firm Derby have been better than he could have hoped for but from summer 2016 when it is inevitably back on again then all leave at the hospital will be cancelled that day.

As with any Old Firm game my sympathies are always with the emergency services and NHS Staff who clear up the mess. It's manageable apparently when it's a 1200 kick off as the idiots don't get the time to get tanked up in numbers but that evening games are just horrific.

[SHODAN]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/35252738

[cabbageandribs1875]

However, the BBC understands it is unlikely that action will be taken because of current league rules

But the club has provided the league with evidence that they were doing everything in their power to prevent such behaviour.


carry on as normal :agree: until it happens again, then when it happens again, then when it happens again ....repeat Ad infinitum

[PatHead]

My cousin is an A&E registrar in Glasgow. He says the last 3 years without the Old Firm Derby have been better than he could have hoped for but from summer 2016 when it is inevitably back on again then all leave at the hospital will be cancelled that day.

As with any Old Firm game my sympathies are always with the emergency services and NHS Staff who clear up the mess. It's manageable apparently when it's a 1200 kick off as the idiots don't get the time to get tanked up in numbers but that evening games are just horrific.

How? No guarantee they will win the play offs.

[lord bunberry]

However, the BBC understands it is unlikely that action will be taken because of current league rules

But the club has provided the league with evidence that they were doing everything in their power to prevent such behaviour.


carry on as normal :agree: until it happens again, then when it happens again, then when it happens again ....repeat Ad infinitum
:agree: Nothing will change when all the club has to do is claim they're trying to stop it. The reality is they're doing nothing to stop it.

[seanshow]

So buy this assumption you could have a whole stadium singing racist abuse! (not suggesting we try at ER or anywhere in Scotland)
and then that club can claim they are doing everything in their power to stop the racist singing and get away free of punishment.
What a load of bullocks! SPFL should grow some and fine these bigoted clowns :fuming:

[Ozyhibby]

So buy this assumption you could have a whole stadium singing racist abuse! (not suggesting we try at ER or anywhere in Scotland)
and then that club can claim they are doing everything in their power to stop the racist singing and get away free of punishment.
What a load of bullocks! SPFL should grow some and fine these bigoted clowns :fuming:

SPFL is the clubs. Our own club is part of the problem. We enable them by our silence.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JimBHibees]

Rangers stressed it was a minority of fans involved and said would assist Police Scotland in identifying the culprits. :faf:

[Hibernian Verse]

Rangers stressed it was a minority of fans involved and said would assist Police Scotland in identifying the culprits. :faf:

They can start with the fud that shouted out during Carnival de Paris.

[Sir David Gray]

However, the BBC understands it is unlikely that action will be taken because of current league rules

But the club has provided the league with evidence that they were doing everything in their power to prevent such behaviour.


carry on as normal :agree: until it happens again, then when it happens again, then when it happens again ....repeat Ad infinitum

That's interesting to know that current league rules allow for sectarian singing to take place within the confines of the stadium.

You learn something new every day.

[Moulin Yarns]

Also said on the radio the police are also investigating.

[Sir David Gray]

Also said on the radio the police are also investigating.

Not before time.

Are they also going to investigate their own officers who told Hibs fans during the game, who were trying to report that they were being struck by numerous objects, to "stop goading them then"?

[Lago]

Not before time.

Are they also going to investigate their own officers who told Hibs fans during the game, who were trying to report that they were being struck by numerous objects, to "stop goading them then"?

Nothing has ever been done, nothing will ever be done.

[Jim44]

As far as the SFA (?) and the SPFL are concerned, it appears that Sevco's punishment for Sectarianism is to talk about it occasionally and then let the matter rest till the next time. They know that if Sectarianism was abolished comletely from the Hun support, the club would effectively die and that can never be allowed to happen. They say it's a minority but of the many Sevco supporters that I know there are precious few who don't have anti Catholic leanings in varying degrees.

[brog]

Well at least the match delegate has reported it now & BBC gave it decent coverage on their evening news. I'm not holding my breath waiting on effective action but at least it hasn't just disappeared - yet!

[monktonharp]

Well at least the match delegate has reported it now & BBC gave it decent coverage on their evening news. I'm not holding my breath waiting on effective action but at least it hasn't just disappeared - yet!
It will disappear pretty soon, that's why the sfa are letting it fade in everyone's memory. Our club should make a statement, and let us all know what our fans reps told them. they should also remind the sfa of their obligations. not much point of trying to do it via the MSM though.

[brog]

[QUOTE=Ozyhibby;4538512]When my Dad finished school and went looking for an apprenticeship his school teacher gave him a list of firms that wouldn't hire Catholics, so that he wouldn't waste his time going for interviews.
Things are better now obviously, although every Catholic in the country knows that they can never be Prime Minister.
I think it's fair to say there is work still to be done.

Unlike the monarchy there's actually no legal impediment to a Catholic becoming PM. Although Tony Blair did not convert to Catholicism until after leaving office he was, to all intents & purposes a practising Catholic while he was PM. Having said that my Dad suffered from discrimination in the workplace also though things are vastly improved from those days.

[Danderhall Hibs]

They spoke about this on Sportsound last night. Basically agreed that nothing will happen (presumably a points deduction or closed doors matches) because the SPFL don’t have a “club can take the blame for the fans” rule.

They said fans should complain to their clubs about that cos it’s the clubs that don’t want it.

[Baldy Foghorn]

They spoke about this on Sportsound last night. Basically agreed that nothing will happen (presumably a points deduction or closed doors matches) because the SPFL don’t have a “club can take the blame for the fans” rule.

They said fans should complain to their clubs about that cos it’s the clubs that don’t want it.

That's a shocker, wtf did club's vote that in for?

[Moulin Yarns]

That's a shocker, wtf did club's vote that in for?

I think it was because it would be difficult to police. Imagine a group of vindictive Yams got into a game at Easter Road and sang at the top of their voice a banned song supporting the IRA. Would the club be responsible?

[southsider]

I think it was because it would be difficult to police. Imagine a group of vindictive Yams got into a game at Easter Road and sang at the top of their voice a banned song supporting the IRA. Would the club be responsible?

That is just a get-out clause used to muddy the waters. We had 40,000 + "fans" at Ibrox screaming sectarian abuse at our manager. I have written to the SFA demanding action against Rangers. Will post the outcome.

[marinello59]

That is just a get-out clause used to muddy the waters. We had 40,000 + "fans" at Ibrox screaming sectarian abuse at our manager. I have written to the SFA demanding action against Rangers. Will post the outcome.

They will chuck that out straight away as an exaggeration of what happened. If we are going to complain let's at least give an objective view of events.

[silverhibee]

Rangers stressed it was a minority of fans involved and said would assist Police Scotland in identifying the culprits. :faf:

"Dawn raids to take place in Edinburgh after game at Ibrox say Scottish Glasgow Rangers Police". :greengrin

[Onion]

I think it was because it would be difficult to police. Imagine a group of vindictive Yams got into a game at Easter Road and sang at the top of their voice a banned song supporting the IRA. Would the club be responsible?

They could do that now - racist, homophobic, sectarian... just doesn't happen for obvious reasons. The problem is 99% an Old Firm problem. Deal with Celtic and Sevco at home and away and the problem will go soon disappear from Scottish football.

[silverhibee]

However, the BBC understands it is unlikely that action will be taken because of current league rules

But the club has provided the league with evidence that they were doing everything in their power to prevent such behaviour.


carry on as normal :agree: until it happens again, then when it happens again, then when it happens again ....repeat Ad infinitum

Do we know what this evidence is, surely it's not as simple as the bigots are "doing everything it can to stop this behaviour from the MINORITY" :faf: and the Spfl sfa just buy this and accept it.

Our Club should have made a statement on the Sectarian Abuse our manager received during the game from the MAJORITY of the home support.

[silverhibee]

Also said on the radio the police are also investigating.

I await the "No action will be take by Scottish Police" response.

[silverhibee]

They will chuck that out straight away as an exaggeration of what happened. If we are going to complain let's at least give an objective view of events.

Okay. 39000 :greengrin

[BoomtownHibees]

They will chuck that out straight away as an exaggeration of what happened. If we are going to complain let's at least give an objective view of events.

How many at the game do you reckon were singing "Hullo Hullo" and about Stubbs being a sad fenian *******??

[marinello59]

How many at the game do you reckon were singing "Hullo Hullo" and about Stubbs being a sad fenian *******??

I don't know, do you? I do know when those songs were sung, and it wasn't constant, it was mainly after they scored, that many of them dropped out when it came to the offensive lines. So not 40 000.
To say it was 40000 screaming sectarian abuse would be like saying when the refugee song was regularly sung at Easter Road there were 20 000 Hibs fans screaming racist abuse at Skacel which would be ridiculous. (And I only use that as an illustration, not to start a debate about the refugee song.....please let's not. :greengrin) I hate the songs they sung but any complaint needs to be objective otherwise it comes across as a rant.

[Carheenlea]

A few years ago Scottish Clubs voted overwhelmingly against implementing "Strict Liability", and therefor the chances of the SFA/SPFL taking action against any of our clubs is pretty much zero. I suspect that arrangement suits those in authority just fine.
With this, Scottish Clubs are shirking their responsibilities in seriously tackling problems such as sectarianism in our game, and it would be interesting to find out which clubs voted for what. I don`t know how our club voted, but would be very disappointed if we voted against.
UEFA adopt "Strict Liability", and both Rangers and Celtic have faced sanctions from the body in UEFA competition. Rangers, for sectarian chanting, and Celtic, for chants supporting the IRA. It`s high time "Strict Liability" was adopted in Scotland.

[Dashing Bob S]

I don't know, do you? I do know when those songs were sung, and it wasn't constant, it was mainly after they scored, that many of them dropped out when it came to the offensive lines. So not 40 000.
To say it was 40000 screaming sectarian abuse would be like saying when the refugee song was regularly sung at Easter Road there were 20 000 Hibs fans screaming racist abuse at Skacel which would be ridiculous. (And I only use that as an illustration, not to start a debate about the refugee song.....please let's not. :greengrin) I hate the songs they sung but any complaint needs to be objective otherwise it comes across as a rant.

I certainly don't want to start a debate about the refugee song, but I do think it gets a bad cultural rap, or maybe not? Anyway, discuss.

[marinello59]

I certainly don't want to start a debate about the refugee song, but I do think it gets a bad cultural rap, or maybe not? Anyway, discuss.

Any tune that had its roots in the Ringo Starr songbook was never going to get a fair hearing.

[Nameless]

Does Craig in Prague still post on here?

[Skol]

RE the club doing everything....what if clubs committed to blasting something over the tannoy if an offensive song was sung......

Imagine the embarraasment of it being blasted 20 times for all to know that a minority had offended, would soon stop it

[BoomtownHibees]

I don't know, do you? I do know when those songs were sung, and it wasn't constant, it was mainly after they scored, that many of them dropped out when it came to the offensive lines. So not 40 000.
To say it was 40000 screaming sectarian abuse would be like saying when the refugee song was regularly sung at Easter Road there were 20 000 Hibs fans screaming racist abuse at Skacel which would be ridiculous. (And I only use that as an illustration, not to start a debate about the refugee song.....please let's not. :greengrin) I hate the songs they sung but any complaint needs to be objective otherwise it comes across as a rant.

"Mainly after they scored". So at least 4 times then. That's a fair amount for the same songs to be sung during a game. And I didn't hear any sort of drop in volume when they got to the offensive lines so there can't have been many that chose not to sing them

[green day]

"Mainly after they scored". So at least 4 times then. That's a fair amount for the same songs to be sung during a game. And I didn't hear any sort of drop in volume when they got to the offensive lines so there can't have been many that chose not to sing them

I'm with you.

My brother in law was up from down south, we watched it with my dad in my house.

Its so ingrained in me that the huns "just sing these things" that I didnt really clock them "guarding old Derrys Walls" etc until brother in law (English) said "thats ridic, I thought there were laws against sectarian singing?".

I didnt count the songs myself, but he was also pretty disgusted about how many participants, the frequency, and the fact that the commentator apologised for some bad language picked up on the mics, but not sectarian singing (by many thousands) !!

Lets not kid ourselves on, I sit in the West upper, closer to the away stand - when the huns come, the entire stand sing offensive and sectarian songs start to finish.

I was talking to a jambo yesterday and he said that Celtic are very similar at Tynecastle.

These issues are 99.99% down to Celtic and Rangers fans - and if the Scottish Football authorities are happy to do nothing (when UEFA actually did do something about the huns), that speaks volumes.

[Colr]

Have we had the observers report on the match yet?

[southsider]

I don't know, do you? I do know when those songs were sung, and it wasn't constant, it was mainly after they scored, that many of them dropped out when it came to the offensive lines. So not 40 000.
To say it was 40000 screaming sectarian abuse would be like saying when the refugee song was regularly sung at Easter Road there were 20 000 Hibs fans screaming racist abuse at Skacel which would be ridiculous. (And I only use that as an illustration, not to start a debate about the refugee song.....please let's not. :greengrin) I hate the songs they sung but any complaint needs to be objective otherwise it comes across as a rant.

I think you have missed my point. Any sort of racist/anti-Semitic/homophobic or SECTARIAN chanting is unacceptable by one or 40,000. If the chants were aimed at the first three mentioned Ibrox would be closed tomorrow. Why then should our manager be subjected to such abuse. We all know that Rangers fans used the word Fenian as a derogatory term for someone who is of Catholic persuasion. I have no idea if Mr Stubbs is of that faith or not (I don't care !) but this abuse must stop. He is only doing his job. If someone abused a bus driver in that way the police and courts would act. CTV camera's at grounds are everywhere so lets pinpoint the culprits and ban them from football. I await the SFA's answer to my letter.

[silverhibee]

I don't know, do you? I do know when those songs were sung, and it wasn't constant, it was mainly after they scored, that many of them dropped out when it came to the offensive lines. So not 40 000.
To say it was 40000 screaming sectarian abuse would be like saying when the refugee song was regularly sung at Easter Road there were 20 000 Hibs fans screaming racist abuse at Skacel which would be ridiculous. (And I only use that as an illustration, not to start a debate about the refugee song.....please let's not. :greengrin) I hate the songs they sung but any complaint needs to be objective otherwise it comes across as a rant.

Certainly more the majority than the minority though that day at Ipox.

It's the kind of behaviour that you expect from them when they play away and know they will get away with it while away from Ipox, but it seems they don't care whether they s***e on there own doorstep now, they feel untouchable from the authorities who are turning a blind ear & eye to what they get up to at at there home ground.

The statement from The Rangers saying they are doing everything they can to eradicate this kind of stuff at there ground, and yet when we go through there it is always the same offenders standing there facing the away support and have no interest in the game as they are to busy noising up the away fans with there sectarian bile, if The Rangers were doing everything to stamp this out then these offenders should have banning orders by now, but they haven't, so i don't believe the new cub are doing anything to stop this kind of stuff at there ground.

[Dashing Bob S]

Any tune that had its roots in the Ringo Starr songbook was never going to get a fair hearing.

I'd like to be in YLT,
in Alan Stubbsy's garden in the shade
he'd let us in, with John McGinn
and our bovver boots and blades

Nah...maybe not.

[cabbageandribs1875]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-35282172


MSPs are to discuss a petition urging the Scottish government to scrap the Offensive Behaviour at Football Act.
Holyrood's public petitions committee will hear from football fans who say the legislation has eroded trust between supporters and police and has failed to tackle bigotry.



sigh

[Ringothedog]

Any tune that had its roots in the Ringo Starr songbook was never going to get a fair hearing.

Nothing wrong with the tune.

[GreenOnions]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-35282172


MSPs are to discuss a petition urging the Scottish government to scrap the Offensive Behaviour at Football Act.
Holyrood's public petitions committee will hear from football fans who say the legislation has eroded trust between supporters and police and has failed to tackle bigotry.

sigh



Sounds like an outbreak of common sense to me. A law isn't "good law" just because it means well.

[PeeKay]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-35282172


MSPs are to discuss a petition urging the Scottish government to scrap the Offensive Behaviour at Football Act.
Holyrood's public petitions committee will hear from football fans who say the legislation has eroded trust between supporters and police and has failed to tackle bigotry.



sigh






But just read through this thread to see that the law just has not worked and for examples of why we do not trust the police to do anything about it.