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Rougier45
28-12-2015, 09:15 PM
Against Fallirk - Hanlon had one of his best games in a hibs jersey - but at 10 men we bottled it sat in too deep when we should have continued pressing and eventually got out of jail.

Against QOS Hanlon was out ?we played long balls and got lucky .


Today we had to play 3-5-2 - plus Malonga up front - holds ball up well - - couldn't believe Fontaine was on bench Stubbs changing formation caused all the mistakes-we where well beaten .


He is a young manager with potential - but he has been listening to his own press - all the mind games nonsense .

Hope he learns- still all to play for but our special one needs to reign it in .
HH

PISTOL1875
28-12-2015, 09:18 PM
Against Fallirk - Hanlon had one of his best games in a hibs jersey - but at 10 men we bottled it sat in too deep when we should have continued pressing and eventually got out of jail.

Against QOS Hanlon was out ?we played long balls and got lucky .


Today we had to play 3-5-2 - plus Malonga up front - holds ball up well - - couldn't believe Fontaine was on bench Stubbs changing formation caused all the mistakes-we where well beaten .


He is a young manager with potential - but he has been listening to his own press - all the mind games nonsense .

Hope he learns- still all to play for but our special one needs to reign it in .
HH

All very good points . BUT you cannot blame Stubbs when players like Fyfie and Fontaine give the ball away in vital areas and Darren McGregor charging out of position.. It wasn't tactics that cost us today it was costly individual errors...

The Harp Awakes
28-12-2015, 09:24 PM
All very good points . BUT you cannot blame Stubbs when players like Fyfie and Fontaine give the ball away in vital areas and Darren McGregor charging out of position.. It wasn't tactics that cost us today it was costly individual errors...

Yep. Spot on. Individual errors cost us the game. Not the Managers fault today.

Northernhibee
28-12-2015, 09:55 PM
The sheer amount of wannabe Alan Hansen's on here is ever so tiring.

Tyler Durden
28-12-2015, 09:56 PM
Against Fallirk - Hanlon had one of his best games in a hibs jersey - but at 10 men we bottled it sat in too deep when we should have continued pressing and eventually got out of jail.

Against QOS Hanlon was out ?we played long balls and got lucky .


Today we had to play 3-5-2 - plus Malonga up front - holds ball up well - - couldn't believe Fontaine was on bench Stubbs changing formation caused all the mistakes-we where well beaten .


He is a young manager with potential - but he has been listening to his own press - all the mind games nonsense .

Hope he learns- still all to play for but our special one needs to reign it in .
HH

3 at the back against 1 up front - no thanks.

The players let Stubbs down. He could have had better tactics yeah, but not for your reasons

Pete
28-12-2015, 09:58 PM
The sheer amount of wannabe Alan Hansen's on here is ever so tiring.

It's a well known fact that all the best managers are in the pub or in the stands. Chelsea could save themselves a lot of time by simply drawing up a list of candidates from Internet message boards.

.Sean.
28-12-2015, 09:58 PM
Aye and its also Stubbs fault we clawed back an 11 point deficit and had a free potshot at the Huns the day. Gtf with this post, absolute wind and pish mate :aok:

blackpoolhibs
28-12-2015, 09:58 PM
I blame Stubbs for us being 3 points behind a club that spends 4 times the amount we do on players. I also blame him for drawing two games in that 17 game undefeated run, we'd be top today even after the result if we'd won all 17. :grr:

The Green Goblin
28-12-2015, 10:04 PM
I blame Stubbs for us being 3 points behind a club that spends 4 times the amount we do on players. I also blame him for drawing two games in that 17 game undefeated run, we'd be top today even after the result if we'd won all 17. :grr:

When you put it like that, he should consider himself lucky he has still got a job. Two draws and fifteen wins in the last seventeen games before today really isn't good enough. I hope he tries harder next time.... :cb

Rougier45
28-12-2015, 10:08 PM
When you put it like that, he should consider himself lucky he has still got a job. Two draws and fifteen wins in the last seventeen games before today really isn't good enough. I hope he tries harder next time.... :cb

FFS is Stubbs immune against criticism - he got it wrong today - so what we move on .:flag:

Thecat23
28-12-2015, 10:08 PM
The sheer amount of wannabe Alan Hansen's on here is ever so tiring.

Are they all wrong as well when many come on and praise him each week? Or is is only when we lose we aren't allowed to say the manager had an off day!

He's a very good manager and will do well in the game, today he got it wrong and that happens.

Baldy Foghorn
28-12-2015, 10:09 PM
Stubbs watched us get torn apart time after time, did nothing to combat it.....As much as we were poor collectively, he should also shoulder some blame tonight too.......

Rougier45
28-12-2015, 10:10 PM
All very good points . BUT you cannot blame Stubbs when players like Fyfie and Fontaine give the ball away in vital areas and Darren McGregor charging out of position.. It wasn't tactics that cost us today it was costly individual errors...

Mistakes caused I suggest by formation changes - unfamiliarity - bottom line we got wellhumped today by a very average rangers team and we have struggled past few weeks - hopefully we get back at if against Raith

Thecat23
28-12-2015, 10:10 PM
FFS is Stubbs immune against criticism - he got it wrong today - so what we move on .:flag:

It looks like it. You question one game and it's, "ffs we've been unbeaten in 17" Yes we know that and we have praised him and Hibs for it so why can't the same folk not lay blame at his door when it goes wrong without getting torn into?!

It is pretty funny though.

HibeeEmma
28-12-2015, 10:11 PM
3 at the back against 1 up front - no thanks.

The players let Stubbs down. He could have had better tactics yeah, but not for your reasons

Personally I felt he should have made subs earlier on. Henderson wasn't up to speed with the game and Keatings should have been off at, or just after half time. Players do have off games, it was a fast paced game and at Ibrox we can't make mistakes such as failing to pass to our own players, but it's the Managers responsibility to identify those who are not performing and bring on some of the quality we had on the bench.

Onwards and upwards, we will bounce back from this.

Thecat23
28-12-2015, 10:11 PM
Stubbs watched us get torn apart time after time, did nothing to combat it.....As much as we were poor collectively, he should also shoulder some blame tonight too.......

Well said, that's all folk are saying I think. We just move on from it not hide from the fact he got it wrong. Because if he didn't see anything wrong with that performance I'll be astounded!

Sammy7nil
28-12-2015, 10:13 PM
It's a well known fact that all the best manageTot Gurs are in the pub or in the stands. Chelsea could save themselves a lot of time by simply drawing up a list of candidates from Internet message boards.

Totally. Agree

SeanWilson
28-12-2015, 10:13 PM
Mistakes caused I suggest by formation changes - unfamiliarity - bottom line we got wellhumped today by a very average rangers team and we have struggled past few weeks - hopefully we get back at if against Raith

100% this. They are bang average and will continue to lose points... Bad day at the races.

green day
28-12-2015, 10:15 PM
Well said, that's all folk are saying I think. We just move on from it not hide from the fact he got it wrong. Because if he didn't see anything wrong with that performance I'll be astounded!

Some people are revelling in it though.

JimBHibees
28-12-2015, 10:16 PM
Mistakes caused I suggest by formation changes - unfamiliarity - bottom line we got wellhumped today by a very average rangers team and we have struggled past few weeks - hopefully we get back at if against Raith

The formation had absolutely nothing to do with experienced players such as Fontaine and Fyvie giving the ball away. The level of bull is frightening it really is.

givescotlandfreedom
28-12-2015, 10:17 PM
I think we played too deep and invited pressure. We inevitably gave the ball away and were punished. I think Stubbs got his tactics wrong though Malonga and Boyle did improve things IMO and Anier would have been a good sub but for the injured Gray needing replaced. A few individual poor performances too which didn't help. We need to learn and move on and be careful not to overreact.

Thecat23
28-12-2015, 10:17 PM
Some people are revelling in it though.

I'd just ignore them, but folk just pointing out valid points seem to be getting it in the neck for questioning Stubbs.

The "football manager shouts" always come out when we lose but never do we hear them when we win and the same guys praise the line ups and players... Funny that eh ;)

Thecat23
28-12-2015, 10:19 PM
The formation had absolutely nothing to do with experienced players such as Fontaine and Fyvie giving the ball away. The level of bull is frightening it really is.

The way we sat in brought unnecessary pressure onto the players. You press a team high and close them down it will force errors, the proof was in the pudding right there today.

We sat back and didn't press which made The Rangers have a field day and look a good side at times when they aren't!

blackpoolhibs
28-12-2015, 10:22 PM
The formation had absolutely nothing to do with experienced players such as Fontaine and Fyvie giving the ball away. The level of bull is frightening it really is.

:agree: Bad individual errors that resulted in their goals caused todays defeat, take them out and the game plan was working.

Once in the first half their fullback on the right got space in behind our back 4, and Oxley never had a real save to make.

We were comfortable until Fyvie dropped a bollock, the other goals were poor defending too, absolutely nothing to do with whatever tactics we employed.

Was not in the least bit worried about them playing the ball back and forth across the park, they were going nowhere.

marinello59
28-12-2015, 10:22 PM
Against Fallirk - Hanlon had one of his best games in a hibs jersey - but at 10 men we bottled it sat in too deep when we should have continued pressing and eventually got out of jail.

Against QOS Hanlon was out ?we played long balls and got lucky .


Today we had to play 3-5-2 - plus Malonga up front - holds ball up well - - couldn't believe Fontaine was on bench Stubbs changing formation caused all the mistakes-we where well beaten .


He is a young manager with potential - but he has been listening to his own press - all the mind games nonsense .

Hope he learns- still all to play for but our special one needs to reign it in .
HH

Nobody bottled it today, that's a totally ridiculous comment. Carry on and do the West Coast medias job for them though. Individual errors cost us. It happens.

Jonnyboy
28-12-2015, 10:23 PM
:agree: Bad individual errors that resulted in their goals caused todays defeat, take them out and the game plan was working.

Once in the first half their fullback on the right got space in behind our back 4, and Oxley never had a real save to make.

We were comfortable until Fyvie dropped a bollock, the other goals were poor defending too, absolutely nothing to do with whatever tactics we employed.

Was not in the least bit worried about them playing the ball back and forth across the park, they were going nowhere.

That's my take too, G

JimBHibees
28-12-2015, 10:24 PM
The way we sat in brought unnecessary pressure onto the players. You press a team high and close them down it will force errors, the proof was in the pudding right there today.

We sat back and didn't press which made The Rangers have a field day and look a good side at times when they aren't!

There was no pressure on us until we gifted them a goal. We were poor and didn't use the ball well however to me we were doing fine until the first goal.

marinello59
28-12-2015, 10:24 PM
:agree: Bad individual errors that resulted in their goals caused todays defeat, take them out and the game plan was working.

Once in the first half their fullback on the right got space in behind our back 4, and Oxley never had a real save to make.

We were comfortable until Fyvie dropped a bollock, the other goals were poor defending too, absolutely nothing to do with whatever tactics we employed.

Was not in the least bit worried about them playing the ball back and forth across the park, they were going nowhere.

Spot on.

Thecat23
28-12-2015, 10:25 PM
Nobody bottled it today, that's a totally ridiculous comment. Carry on and do the West Coast medias job for them though. Individual errors cost us. It happens.

I don't think anyone bottled it either, just a bad day all round and these games happen. We just need to make sure it doesn't happen again.

JimBHibees
28-12-2015, 10:25 PM
:agree: Bad individual errors that resulted in their goals caused todays defeat, take them out and the game plan was working.

Once in the first half their fullback on the right got space in behind our back 4, and Oxley never had a real save to make.

We were comfortable until Fyvie dropped a bollock, the other goals were poor defending too, absolutely nothing to do with whatever tactics we employed.

Was not in the least bit worried about them playing the ball back and forth across the park, they were going nowhere.

Agree totally.

Northernhibee
28-12-2015, 10:26 PM
It looks like it. You question one game and it's, "ffs we've been unbeaten in 17" Yes we know that and we have praised him and Hibs for it so why can't the same folk not lay blame at his door when it goes wrong without getting torn into?!

It is pretty funny though.

It's the total lack of perspective and need to tear into the chosen scapegoat that causes the true fans on here to circle around certain players to defend them. So far we've seen Stubbs called "Clueless" and calling for Fyvie to leave the club - no wonder there tends to be an element of polarity on here.

Thecat23
28-12-2015, 10:27 PM
There was no pressure on us until we gifted them a goal. We were poor and didn't use the ball well however to me we were doing fine until the first goal.

I thought we were under the cosh Jim that's how i seen it. Stats seem to suggest the same as well. They were passing it wide and playing tight passes trying to split our defence open which was bound to happen. The mistake was a bad one but one that I think was coming.

blackpoolhibs
28-12-2015, 10:28 PM
There was no pressure on us until we gifted them a goal. We were poor and didn't use the ball well however to me we were doing fine until the first goal.

That is correct, my one gripe today was how we did not play well enough when we had the ball. Would personally have played Malonga, it might have made a difference but who knows?

Baldy Foghorn
28-12-2015, 10:28 PM
My take on it is they looked hungrier, we looked leggy.....They created some good chances and our defence was poor.

We lost our shape at times, and were guilty of giving cheap balls and ultimately goals away......Some strange decisions tactically for me, just a guff day all round

Thecat23
28-12-2015, 10:28 PM
It's the total lack of perspective and need to tear into the chosen scapegoat that causes the true fans on here to circle around certain players to defend them. So far we've seen Stubbs called "Clueless" and calling for Fyvie to leave the club - no wonder there tends to be an element of polarity on here.

Just ignore them, I for one would rather Fyvie didn't play and we brought in better, doesn't mean I can't stand him I just think we can improve our squad and he's not been good enough for us. But others will see different that's cool!

Stokesy's on fire
28-12-2015, 10:29 PM
Bottle jobs? We have lost our first game in ages and yet the OP has called us bottle jobs....

Rougier45
28-12-2015, 10:29 PM
Nobody bottled it today, that's a totally ridiculous comment. Carry on and do the West Coast medias job for them though. Individual errors cost us. It happens.

Who said we bottled it?

Pete
28-12-2015, 10:30 PM
Who said we bottled it?

You did.

:confused:

Rougier45
28-12-2015, 10:30 PM
Bottle jobs? We have lost our first game in ages and yet the OP has called us bottle jobs....

Repeat where did I say that.?

JimBHibees
28-12-2015, 10:30 PM
That is correct, my one gripe today was how we did not play well enough when we had the ball. Would personally have played Malonga, it might have made a difference but who knows?

Agree Keatings didn't really contribute and agree Malonga would have been a better option.

Thecat23
28-12-2015, 10:31 PM
Agree Keatings didn't really contribute and agree Malonga would have been a better option.

I also agree Malonga may well have been the better option as he holds it up better.

Rougier45
28-12-2015, 10:32 PM
I don't think anyone bottled it either, just a bad day all round and these games happen. We just need to make sure it doesn't happen again.

My op meant we bottled it against falkirk - today was a bad day The office - the boss should take the blame IMO

stantonhibby
28-12-2015, 10:32 PM
Repeat where did I say that.?

In your first paragraph.

Jonnyboy
28-12-2015, 10:33 PM
Repeat where did I say that.?

Your OP stated

"Against Fallirk - Hanlon had one of his best games in a hibs jersey - but at 10 men we bottled it sat in too deep when we should have continued pressing and eventually got out of jail."

blackpoolhibs
28-12-2015, 10:34 PM
Your OP stated

"Against Fallirk - Hanlon had one of his best games in a hibs jersey - but at 10 men we bottled it sat in too deep when we should have continued pressing and eventually got out of jail."

Aye but apart from that one time when did he say we bottled it?

FromTheCapital
28-12-2015, 10:35 PM
Seriously enough of this *****. We lost ONE game!
Get off the managers back and support him ffs.
Individual errors today cost us, nothing else!
1 defeat in 18 games and the blame game begins


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marinello59
28-12-2015, 10:39 PM
Who said we bottled it?

Apart from you? :greengrin

Swedish hibee
28-12-2015, 10:39 PM
Aye and its also Stubbs fault we clawed back an 11 point deficit and had a free potshot at the Huns the day. Gtf with this post, absolute wind and pish mate :aok:

:applause: Well said.

Baldy Foghorn
28-12-2015, 10:43 PM
Seriously enough of this *****. We lost ONE game!
Get off the managers back and support him ffs.
Individual errors today cost us, nothing else!
1 defeat in 18 games and the blame game begins


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On his back? He played a part in Today, or are we so precious and blinkered?

FromTheCapital
28-12-2015, 10:47 PM
On his back? He played a part in Today, or are we so precious and blinkered?

I don't think he's to blame!
I looked at the team selection and was pretty pleased.
Certain players let him down with below par performances.
1-0 up until Fyvie stupidly lost possession.
Individual errors cost us today, that's it.


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Baldy Foghorn
28-12-2015, 10:50 PM
I don't think he's to blame!
I looked at the team selection and was pretty pleased.
Certain players let him down with below par performances.
1-0 up until Fyvie stupidly lost possession.
Individual errors cost us today, that's it.


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He watched us getting torn apart at times......Needs to be able to combat that, by making changes.....

Ps we were not at the races today.....

blackpoolhibs
28-12-2015, 10:54 PM
He watched us getting torn apart at times......Needs to be able to combat that, by making changes.....

Ps we were not at the races today.....

I must have watched a different game? Every goal was a direct result of a ridiculous mistake on our part, the goals apart Oxley has not had a save of note to make. :confused:

We did not play well when we had the ball going forward, but at no time were we getting torn apart.

Baldy Foghorn
28-12-2015, 11:00 PM
I must have watched a different game? Every goal was a direct result of a ridiculous mistake on our part, the goals apart Oxley has not had a save of note to make. :confused:

We did not play well when we had the ball going forward, but at no time were we getting torn apart.

Must have watched a different game indeed.....Diagonal balls in first half, them playing with higher tempo.....

marinello59
28-12-2015, 11:03 PM
On his back? He played a part in Today, or are we so precious and blinkered?

He certainly played a part today but I don't think he got that much wrong. If he did he will recognise it and learn from it though. I think he is a vastly improved manager from last year because he does learn from his mistakes and we will benefit from that more and more as we move forward.
I don't think the reaction to criticism has been precious, more a case of people reacting to some of the unthinking knee jerk stuff. (Not your post obviously. :greengrin)

FromTheCapital
28-12-2015, 11:05 PM
He watched us getting torn apart at times......Needs to be able to combat that, by making changes.....

Ps we were not at the races today.....

Every team has a bad day at the office mate, just don't know why the managers always take the chunk of the blame when the players just did not perform!
Agree with that, we were poor today but we need to bounce back. Some folk think the title race is over :faf


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Baldy Foghorn
28-12-2015, 11:06 PM
Every team has a bad day at the office mate, just don't know why the managers always take the chunk of the blame when the players just did not perform!
Agree with that, we were poor today but we need to bounce back. Some folk think the title race is over :faf


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I don't but we have to perform much better than we have been doing in last few games. We need to pick up starting Saturday, with no games easy.....

blackpoolhibs
28-12-2015, 11:08 PM
Must have watched a different game indeed.....Diagonal balls in first half, them playing with higher tempo.....


Where did all these diagonal balls get them, and for all their supposedly higher tempo, we were actually winning until a terrible mistake.

Each goal was a direct result of very poor play by our players, not by anything sevco actually created.

Oxley never had a save to make of any note.

FromTheCapital
28-12-2015, 11:09 PM
I don't but we have to perform much better than we have been doing in last few games. We need to pick up starting Saturday, with no games easy.....

Hopefully a little wake up call.
Bounce back with 3 points against Raith and get back into our stride again.


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Baldy Foghorn
28-12-2015, 11:11 PM
Where did all these diagonal balls get them, and for all their supposedly higher tempo, we were actually winning until a terrible mistake.

Each goal was a direct result of very poor play by our players, not by anything sevco actually created.

Oxley never had a save to make of any note.

We were poor Today, not at the races. Could have made better use of subs IMO

marinello59
28-12-2015, 11:13 PM
I don't but we have to perform much better than we have been doing in last few games. .

That's where I agree 100%.

blackpoolhibs
28-12-2015, 11:13 PM
We were poor Today, not at the races. Could have made better use of subs IMO

In what way, Gray got injured, Malonga scored and Boyle had q few decent runs at them?

Baldy Foghorn
28-12-2015, 11:16 PM
In what way, Gray got injured, Malonga scored and Boyle had q few decent runs at them?

Felt we could have used Malonga/Anier earlier as the centre backs had a fairly easy game, winning ballsin air against Keatings/Cummings....

We didn't nullify their attacking full backs

blackpoolhibs
28-12-2015, 11:19 PM
Felt we could have used Malonga/Anier earlier as the centre backs had a fairly easy game, winning ballsin air against Keatings/Cummings....

We didn't nullify their attacking full backs

Thats just confirmed we did watch a different match.

Baldy Foghorn
28-12-2015, 11:22 PM
Thats just confirmed we did watch a different match.

OK, leave it there then......

green day
28-12-2015, 11:22 PM
My op meant we bottled it against falkirk - today was a bad day The office - the boss should take the blame IMO

Your posting history makes interesting reading. You only come on here to make negative comments and wind people up IMO.

I used the word Troll the last time - it is still accurate.

greenlex
28-12-2015, 11:22 PM
We were poor Today, not at the races. Could have made better use of subs IMO

Boyle and Nalonga wasn't a bad shout. Should have maybe done it earlier but with having to replace Gray at half time he was only left with two options later. Might have pushed Hanlon or Stevenson Forward after they took their left winger of McKay? And they got more defensive. We got it to 3-2 before the sucker punch. I don't think Stubbs got a lot wrong in terms of subs other than timing. We were still in it at 2-1 and even 3-1 with ten men. They are quick on the break and thats showed in the way we played later in the game. Disappointing but we dust ourselves off and go again. We need to up our game from the last three four games tho.

BoomtownHibeys
28-12-2015, 11:24 PM
Felt we could have used Malonga/Anier earlier as the centre backs had a fairly easy game, winning ballsin air against Keatings/Cummings....

We didn't nullify their attacking full backs

What did their full backs do attacking wise today??

Baldy Foghorn
28-12-2015, 11:25 PM
Boyle and Nalonga wasn't a bad shout. Should have maybe done it earlier but with having to replace Gray at half time he was only left with two options later. Might have pushed Hanlon or Stevenson Forward after they took their left winger of McKay? And they got more defensive. We got it to 3-2 before the sucker punch. I don't think Stubbs got a lot wrong in terms of subs other than timing. We were still in it at 2-1 and even 3-1 with ten men. They are quick on the break and thats showed in the way we played later in the game. Disappointing

Very. I think they had much better chances than us, feel we let ourselves down

Baldy Foghorn
28-12-2015, 11:26 PM
What did their full backs do attacking wise today??

Nothing evidently.......

Thecat23
28-12-2015, 11:27 PM
What did their full backs do attacking wise today??

Pulled us all over the park.

greenlex
28-12-2015, 11:28 PM
Very. I think they had much better chances than us, feel we let ourselves down

Of that there is no doubt.

blackpoolhibs
28-12-2015, 11:28 PM
What did their full backs do attacking wise today??

In the match i watched they received the odd diagonal ball turned back and passed it inside or backwards mostly.

BoomtownHibeys
28-12-2015, 11:29 PM
Nothing evidently.......

I thought that was the one thing we did get right today. Just forgot about all the other parts of the game that we needed to do

BoomtownHibeys
28-12-2015, 11:31 PM
Pulled us all over the park.

No they didn't. Our narrow midfield let them play a few diagonal passes to their full backs but they didn't threaten going forward anywhere near as much as in previous games

Thecat23
28-12-2015, 11:32 PM
Nothing evidently.......

Me and you must have watched a different game from others BF. Apparently The Rangers created nothing even through they had chances to extend their lead but for poor finishing.

Their keeper could also have taking most of the game off. We were never up that far and we got our goal from a deflected Henderson shot as well unless I'm mistaken so that was also unlucky for The Rangers just like all the errors we had!!!

Oxley never made a save because The Ranger took four of their chances and missed the others! Doesn't mean they didn't create any which some on here would suggest!

Thecat23
28-12-2015, 11:33 PM
No they didn't. Our narrow midfield let them play a few diagonal passes to their full backs but they didn't threaten going forward anywhere near as much as in previous games

Yes they did, we played narrow and then had to track back and it left spaces. The Rangers scored four goals and could have had more! The one they put wide before they scored their first another just over the bar after they scored the first Kenny's chance he put over.

We were never in control of that game even 0-1 up.

BoomtownHibeys
28-12-2015, 11:36 PM
Yes they did, we played narrow and then had to track back and it left spaces. The Rangers scored four goals and could have had more! The one they put wide before they scored their first another just over the bar after they scored the first Kenny's chance he put over.

We were never in control of that game even 0-1 up.

The comment was that we didn't nullify the threat from their full backs and I think we did. Neither of them scored, neither of them created chances. So in my opinion we did nullify their threat

Baldy Foghorn
28-12-2015, 11:36 PM
Yes they did, we played narrow and then had to track back and it left spaces. The Rangers scored four goals and could have had more! The one they put wide before they scored their first another just over the bar after they scored the first Kenny's chance he put over.

We were never in control of that game even 0-1 up.

Felt we lost our shape far too often. They do break at pace......

Forza Fred
28-12-2015, 11:40 PM
There was no pressure on us until we gifted them a goal. We were poor and didn't use the ball well however to me we were doing fine until the first goal.

I thought we never really controlled the game, and they shot wide at 0-0 when it seemed easier to score.

We played a team who, as their pre game league position implied, was as good if not even better than us.

That we made up such a points difference on them was something I never expected, but we did magnificently to do so, but it a DID create lofty expectations in process.

Sooner or later we were going to run out of petrol, and we did.

Not the end of the world, but my concern is the 'hangover' effect.

I'm not confident we will do the clichéd 'bounce back' thing many are suggesting, and fear a couple of see saw results over the next few games.

And I'd be looking over my shoulder at Falkirk just quietly.....they have managed to fly under the radar ALL season, and will be bursting their proverbials to finish above us.

Interesting times ahead.

Thecat23
28-12-2015, 11:42 PM
Felt we lost our shape far too often. They do break at pace......

Yep, our shape was all over the place at times.

Baldy Foghorn
28-12-2015, 11:42 PM
I thought we never really controlled the game, and they shot wide at 0-0 when it seemed easier to score.

We played a team who, as their pre game league position implied, was as good if not even better than us.

That we made up such a points difference on them was something I never expected, but we did magnificently to do so, but it a DID create lofty expectations in process.

Sooner or later we were going to run out of petrol, and we did.

Not the end of the world, but my concern is the 'hangover' effect.

I'm not confident we will do the clichéd 'bounce back' thing many are suggesting, and fear a couple of see saw results over the next few games.

And I'd be looking over my shoulder at Falkirk just quietly.....they have managed to fly under the radar ALL season, and will be bursting their proverbials to finish above us.

Interesting times ahead.

Agree with opening sentence, we really have some toughies coming up.....Falkirk on 17th will be huge......

Andy74
28-12-2015, 11:45 PM
Rotating the centre halfs has been interesting but whilst it is probably helping keep people happy and fit I think it hasn't helped for making sure the understanding is there for the big games.

Fontaine was probably the best centre half I've seen here for years but I think he has struggled coming in and out.

Anyway, bad day today. I would play Malonga every game and today showed why Stubbs should do so!

Thecat23
28-12-2015, 11:48 PM
Rotating the centre halfs has been interesting but whilst it is probably helping keep people happy and fit I think it hasn't helped for making sure the understanding is there for the big games.

Fontaine was probably the best centre half I've seen here for years but I think he has struggled coming in and out.

Anyway, bad day today. I would play Malonga every game and today showed why Stubbs should do so!

Andy you'd play Malonga if he was wearing a cast on both feet you love him ;)

I agree though Malonga should have started today, and the swapping of our CH may not be the best idea for the future.

BoomtownHibeys
28-12-2015, 11:49 PM
Rotating the centre halfs has been interesting but whilst it is probably helping keep people happy and fit I think it hasn't helped for making sure the understanding is there for the big games.

Fontaine was probably the best centre half I've seen here for years but I think he has struggled coming in and out.

Anyway, bad day today. I would play Malonga every game and today showed why Stubbs should do so!

Get back to playing Hanlon and Fontaine as centre halfs every week when fit as well as Malonga and Cummings up top

B.H.F.C
28-12-2015, 11:53 PM
Rotating the centre halfs has been interesting but whilst it is probably helping keep people happy and fit I think it hasn't helped for making sure the understanding is there for the big games.

Fontaine was probably the best centre half I've seen here for years but I think he has struggled coming in and out.

Anyway, bad day today. I would play Malonga every game and today showed why Stubbs should do so!

Posted on another thread that I think we need to get a more settled team.

I think he needs to pick two centre halves and stick with them. Remember when Fontaine first signed it took him a bit to get going but once he'd had a run of games he strolled it most weeks. I agree with what you say about him being in and out the team.

I'd also get Malonga and Cummings up top together again and give them a few games. I think they've got the best understanding of all our strikers.

We've not being playing great of late and I think the changes from week to well have contributed to that.

Boyle89
29-12-2015, 12:11 AM
Think Stubbs got it wrong today. Did keatings touch the ball? I thought malonga should've started and gone 352 and put some actual pressure on Rangers. That being said we gifted them 3 of the 4 goals. A bad day at the office all round. A long hard look in the mirror needed for both players and management.

GreenOnions
29-12-2015, 01:28 AM
Nobody bottled it today, that's a totally ridiculous comment. Carry on and do the West Coast medias job for them though. Individual errors cost us. It happens.

I agree with this too. I felt pretty relaxed watching the first half an hour and thought we looked the more technical and dangerous side right up to the point that they equalised.

However, I'd have liked to have seen us respond better to the lift Rangers got from being gifted a way into the game after they equalised.

We lost our shape a bit and didn't look as composed for the remainder of the game. I know we're a young side but I feel Stubbs has to work on this - the ability to recognise when we need to keep things solid for a period after a reverse, prevent the opposition from building momentum as a result of a goal and then build again ourselves once the opposition have failed to capitalise.

A wee bit more experience and leadership on the pitch required maybe?

hibee92
29-12-2015, 01:30 AM
It's also Stubbs' fault we had a 16 game unbeaten run. Let's have another eh?

GreenOnions
29-12-2015, 01:36 AM
Think Stubbs got it wrong today. Did keatings touch the ball? I thought malonga should've started and gone 352 and put some actual pressure on Rangers. That being said we gifted them 3 of the 4 goals. A bad day at the office all round. A long hard look in the mirror needed for both players and management.

In the seven league games between us and Rangers this season and last Malonga started in all four games we've won but started only one of the three we've lost (the 0-2 game at Easter Road in March).

It's a stat. May mean something - may not. However - I agree, though, that we are better with him in the team - particularly against better sides where his technique can be a big advantage.

NAE NOOKIE
29-12-2015, 09:58 AM
:agree: Bad individual errors that resulted in their goals caused todays defeat, take them out and the game plan was working.

Once in the first half their fullback on the right got space in behind our back 4, and Oxley never had a real save to make.

We were comfortable until Fyvie dropped a bollock, the other goals were poor defending too, absolutely nothing to do with whatever tactics we employed.

Was not in the least bit worried about them playing the ball back and forth across the park, they were going nowhere.

I Agree with this.

The whole game came down to individual errors, as a unit the back 4 were doing a good job until Fyvie gave the ball away with the whole Huns attack still up the field.

500miles
29-12-2015, 10:44 AM
Stubbs plan was pretty solid and consistant with what has caused Rangers problems throughout the season, including their last defeat against us.

The chances we gave away tended to be from slack passes and mistakes, or later in the game, pushing on too hard. The latter is fair enough - losing 4-2 is of no greater practical importance than 2-1.
Without our silly - and they were very silly - individual errors yesterday, we would have went into the second half one nil up. Rangers would have had to abandon any sort of defensive concerns and Malonga/ Boyle would have had a field day when they came on.

We set up to frustrate yesterday. Let Rangers have the in the first 2 thirds, and hit them on the break. It's those tactics which they have struggled to deal with this season, and there's no reason why, if properly carried out, it wouldn't have paid dividends for us. However, when you give away silly goals through lapses in concentration, you will struggle with any system, even if we did play for greater overall control.

I think a few players took too many risks. Fyvie, Fontaine and Stevenson in particular getting caught out. However, that's the danger of the success that we've had in the last few months - our players will want to take chances and make things happen, and we can't let one game extinguish that altogether, or we will end up like Rangers against Falkirk and QOTS - lots of possession in the first and middle third, but unable to make decent chances against well organised and disciplined sides who are content with a draw, looking to nick something more on the counter attack.

Stubbs will maybe look to freshen things up a bit after yesterday - set the team up to score more goals, while risking a bit more at the back, as a change of pace may be good against teams we can greater afford it against. Regardless, I don't think he'll be too disheartened - the mistakes were not typical of our performances this season, and the players deserve a bit of slack after clawing back a deficit of 11 points in the first place.

One thing I would say is that Malonga must start in place of Keatings when Cummings plays, but that's no huge deal.

Phil MaGlass
29-12-2015, 10:50 AM
Never thought at any time during the game we looked like having any control, we were dominated from the start to the finish, great finish by Cummings though. The last few games have been close, maybe too close and I think in the coming weeks we may well struggle, hopefully we bounce back from this but there´s definitely something missing, maybe its the urgency, finishing or breaking teams down (I am sure someone could tell us), Falkirk are breathing down our necks they should go above us tonite and the game we play them is going to be another big test, I am hoping for the best but I am more pessimist than optimist at the moment and can see us dropping to third for quite a while (hope I am wrong).

500miles
29-12-2015, 10:52 AM
Rotating the centre halfs has been interesting but whilst it is probably helping keep people happy and fit I think it hasn't helped for making sure the understanding is there for the big games.

Fontaine was probably the best centre half I've seen here for years but I think he has struggled coming in and out.

Anyway, bad day today. I would play Malonga every game and today showed why Stubbs should do so!

I disagree here, as I like the rotating centre half system. It protects them against injury, particularly when plastic pitches are involved, and McGregor is far and away the most aerially dominant centre half we have. In games where we are up against big huddie centre forwards, or facing lots of crosses into the box, he's the man to play. In games where we think teams will try and run at the centre halfs, Fontaine is far more apt at staying on his feet, nicking it off the toes, and starting the next attack. Hanlon reads the game really well and I'd play him ever week, but to keep everyone fresh, without spending too much time out, we have to rotate everyone. I think they'll work together enough in training so they don't lack communication.

Hedlund12
29-12-2015, 10:55 AM
Interviews - Mark Warburton and Alan Stubbs - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/scotland/35191472

Don't know if link will work but here is AS post match interview.

For me you win some, you loose some. The Rangers deserved their 3 points. We are still in the race and I belive we will pip them!! 💚

snooky
29-12-2015, 12:06 PM
Are they all wrong as well when many come on and praise him each week? Or is is only when we lose we aren't allowed to say the manager had an off day!

He's a very good manager and will do well in the game, today he got it wrong and that happens.

:agree: What's the point of having a message board if posters can't express their opinions on the latest news, game and/or event?
It should be seen as a healthy thing that fans take the time to post on here. It shows that they at least care - whether it be by posting a positive or negative comment. I would agree that sometimes the criticism can be OTT however, on the other side, the ultra-defensive "thou shalt not complain" posts can be just as bad.

Col_0762
29-12-2015, 12:44 PM
Stubbs watched us get torn apart time after time, did nothing to combat it.....As much as we were poor collectively, he should also shoulder some blame tonight too.......

Just sat and read whole thread but the above says it all for me. Throw in his strange subs and inability to change it when we were getting torn out wide, then Stubbs def has to shoulder some of the blame. Though Fyvie cost us two goals which does't help matters!

The Green Goblin
29-12-2015, 12:45 PM
FFS is Stubbs immune against criticism - he got it wrong today - so what we move on .:flag:


He is also not immune to having his achievements acknowledged. Can you do that bit too?

Bostonhibby
29-12-2015, 12:49 PM
He is also not immune to having his achievements acknowledged. Can you do that bit too?
Agree. Think it was yet another case of light blue touch paper and stand well back.

The Green Goblin
29-12-2015, 12:50 PM
:agree: What's the point of having a message board if posters can't express their opinions on the latest news, game and/or event?
It should be seen as a healthy thing that fans take the time to post on here. It shows that they at least care - whether it be by posting a positive or negative comment. I would agree that sometimes the criticism can be OTT however, on the other side, the ultra-defensive "thou shalt not complain" posts can be just as bad.

Agree with all of that, and Cat's posts. Not being "ultra defensive" here though. More having an issue with folk that only ever surface to put the boot in and that's all they ever do.

blackpoolhibs
29-12-2015, 01:09 PM
Just sat and read whole thread but the above says it all for me. Throw in his strange subs and inability to change it when we were getting torn out wide, then Stubbs def has to shoulder some of the blame. Though Fyvie cost us two goals which does't help matters!

That never happened, they had virtually no joy going past our defenders on the flanks until very late on when we had to push on.

In fact they only got past Stevenson once in the first half with a dangerous attack, and didn't get passed Gray at all.

I really do wonder if i have watched the same game as some folk do? All the goals were direct results of bad mistakes, and none came from their supposedly superb wide play?

matty_f
29-12-2015, 01:12 PM
I don't have any issue with Stubbs' tactics for the game being called into question, we lost 4-2 and it doesn't hurt to have a look at the reasons why (of which there will be a few). It doesn't mean that Stubbs loses credit for the fantastic run we've had, or make him any worse a manager.

It can't be an easy call to make, The Rangers are a very good attacking side, so do you set up to nullify that threat, or at least contain it (as we appeared to do, going be the bulk of the posts - as in we gave up possession but limited the number of chances), or do you go toe to toe and hope that your own attacking game forces them to make a change to the way that they play.

If Stubbs is guilty of anything, it is that he probably gave them too much respect. By the sounds of it we were neither a counter attacking team, nor forcing the play yesterday, and as a result we were not entirely effective with either approach, hence the defeat.

If it's tactics, then it's fair to question them and look at what went wrong. Stubbs should certainly be doing that, and I am certain that he will be. If the tactics were fine but either poorly executed, or let down by individual errors, then it's ok to acknowledge that as well.

bigwheel
29-12-2015, 01:13 PM
That never happened, they had virtually no joy going past our defenders on the flanks until very late on when we had to push on.

In fact they only got past Stevenson once in the first half with a dangerous attack, and didn't get passed Gray at all.

I really do wonder if i have watched the same game as some folk do? All the goals were direct results of bad mistakes, and none came from their supposedly superb wide play?


...there were a few balls in to the box in the first half from the wide positions..in general though, their wide men , particularly Waghorn, were coming inside and making good progress towards our box from the flanks...Their width did give us problems, as it also created room for their two in the middle of the park..

That said, they didn't created many great chances

Col_0762
29-12-2015, 01:19 PM
That never happened, they had virtually no joy going past our defenders on the flanks until very late on when we had to push on.

In fact they only got past Stevenson once in the first half with a dangerous attack, and didn't get passed Gray at all.

I really do wonder if i have watched the same game as some folk do? All the goals were direct results of bad mistakes, and none came from their supposedly superb wide play?

They seemed to have two down Gray's side a lot first half. But a lot of that was Henderson not working hard enough and ball watchinh, especially the first goal. I'm not trying to dig Stubbs out, honestly, just thought we needed to do something to stop the threat. And playing a left footed central midfielder on the right didn't help Gray when they overlapped.

blackpoolhibs
29-12-2015, 01:35 PM
...there were a few balls in to the box in the first half from the wide positions..in general though, their wide men , particularly Waghorn, were coming inside and making good progress towards our box from the flanks...Their width did give us problems, as it also created room for their two in the middle of the park..

That said, they didn't created many great chances

They floated a few hopeful balls in from deep, only once did they get to the byeline and put in a dangerous cross. By sitting deep the tactics were working, their best players are wide in Wallace and Tavenier. They created next to nothing ALL game, where we failed was when we had the ball.

That was nowhere near good enough against a decent side, and we created very little going forward.


They seemed to have two down Gray's side a lot first half. But a lot of that was Henderson not working hard enough and ball watchinh, especially the first goal. I'm not trying to dig Stubbs out, honestly, just thought we needed to do something to stop the threat. And playing a left footed central midfielder on the right didn't help Gray when they overlapped.

They could have 5 on the right, but if they dont get past the defender they are not tearing us apart, just as yesterday at no time in that first half were we getting tore apart.

bigwheel
29-12-2015, 01:54 PM
They floated a few hopeful balls in from deep, only once did they get to the byeline and put in a dangerous cross. By sitting deep the tactics were working, their best players are wide in Wallace and Tavenier. They created next to nothing ALL game, where we failed was when we had the ball.

That was nowhere near good enough against a decent side, and we created very little going forward.



They could have 5 on the right, but if they dont get past the defender they are not tearing us apart, just as yesterday at no time in that first half were we getting tore apart.


Agree with that...they were probably at their best and still didn't look particularly threatening..our performance on the ball cost us, both in defence and (lack of) attack. A bad day at the office. I'm looking for a positive reaction in the next game.

Col_0762
29-12-2015, 02:04 PM
They floated a few hopeful balls in from deep, only once did they get to the byeline and put in a dangerous cross. By sitting deep the tactics were working, their best players are wide in Wallace and Tavenier. They created next to nothing ALL game, where we failed was when we had the ball.

That was nowhere near good enough against a decent side, and we created very little going forward.



They could have 5 on the right, but if they dont get past the defender they are not tearing us apart, just as yesterday at no time in that first half were we getting tore apart.

But they did get past us? Ok, maybe not torn, perhaps an exaggeration on my behalf but they did get past us. The second goal came from that side. As did the chance Miller missed before their third goal. Then the third goal comes from out wide as well before the chip over the defense. Maybe that's going to much into detail but you can't say they never hurt us out wide when two goals came from out wide to be fair. Plus the chance McKay missed at 0-1 (I think) came from out wide. We just never defended great from those positions, never stopped the balls coming in. But in the grand scheme of things it doesn't really metter. They're 3 points in front and still have to come to ER so hee haw in it and I'll think we'll win this league. Just maybe being over critical but it was basic errors that cost us yesterday which is sore to accept I guess, on my part anyway.

blackpoolhibs
29-12-2015, 03:20 PM
But they did get past us? Ok, maybe not torn, perhaps an exaggeration on my behalf but they did get past us. The second goal came from that side. As did the chance Miller missed before their third goal. Then the third goal comes from out wide as well before the chip over the defense. Maybe that's going to much into detail but you can't say they never hurt us out wide when two goals came from out wide to be fair. Plus the chance McKay missed at 0-1 (I think) came from out wide. We just never defended great from those positions, never stopped the balls coming in. But in the grand scheme of things it doesn't really metter. They're 3 points in front and still have to come to ER so hee haw in it and I'll think we'll win this league. Just maybe being over critical but it was basic errors that cost us yesterday which is sore to accept I guess, on my part anyway.

Which is what i have said all along, and nothing to do with the tactics employed by the manager. The tactics were working until a god awful mistake for the first. The 2nd was a pass from 18 yards out on the left where the guy who scored wandered into space without any of the centre halves going with him. Basic defending allowing him time and space to turn and get his shot away.

Poor defending and a daft mistake from Fyvie and we are 2-1 down when we were comfortable.

Vini1875
29-12-2015, 03:56 PM
I am a big fan of AS and delighted that we are were we are, especially considering many on here had given up on the league round about September. However to me yesterday I thought going with Bartley and Malonga instead of Fyvie and Keatings, simply for height and strength and also that Fyvie and Keatings have dipped in recent weeks. Individuals errors may have cost us, but players not performing who have not been performing for weeks cost us as well and that is down AS.

blackpoolhibs
29-12-2015, 04:54 PM
I am a big fan of AS and delighted that we are were we are, especially considering many on here had given up on the league round about September. However to me yesterday I thought going with Bartley and Malonga instead of Fyvie and Keatings, simply for height and strength and also that Fyvie and Keatings have dipped in recent weeks. Individuals errors may have cost us, but players not performing who have not been performing for weeks cost us as well and that is down AS.

I'd have picked a different team too, but it's difficult to predict how well we would have played with a couple of changes, perhaps they would have won us the game, or maybe made even more mistakes and we'd have been pumped 5 or 6?

Vini1875
29-12-2015, 05:12 PM
I'd have picked a different team too, but it's difficult to predict how well we would have played with a couple of changes, perhaps they would have won us the game, or maybe made even more mistakes and we'd have been pumped 5 or 6?

And that's the reason I'm an electrician and not a football manager, even if I think had Alan phoned me before kick off, we'd be top of the league tonight. It's all opinions.

blackpoolhibs
29-12-2015, 05:25 PM
And that's the reason I'm an electrician and not a football manager, even if I think had Alan phoned me before kick off, we'd be top of the league tonight. It's all opinions.


:agree:

ancient hibee
29-12-2015, 05:58 PM
Reluctance to start Malonga is puzzling-he is the only front player that Cummings forms a partnership with.Also thought Anier would have come on at some stage as his movement around the box from the little I've seen of him appears excellent.Although we're not scoring enough goals given the number of chances(we'll never win the league averaging less than 2 goals a game)it was two defensive errors that cost us-well exploited by them.

greenlex
29-12-2015, 06:12 PM
Reluctance to start Malonga is puzzling-he is the only front player that Cummings forms a partnership with.Also thought Anier would have come on at some stage as his movement around the box from the little I've seen of him appears excellent.Although we're not scoring enough goals given the number of chances(we'll never win the league averaging less than 2 goals a game)it was two defensive errors that cost us-well exploited by them. I'm pretty sure Anier would have featured if Gray had lasted 90 mins.

HUTCHYHIBBY
29-12-2015, 06:30 PM
The sheer amount of wannabe Alan Hansen's on here is ever so tiring.

FFS! Its a football fans forum. I'm sure you are not a political commentator but it doesnae stop you tattering the SNP on The Holy Ground threads at every opportunity does it?

Baldy Foghorn
29-12-2015, 06:33 PM
I would have preferred us to go 3-5-2, but we never.....It's done now, let's hope it gives us a shot in the arm and we go again on Saturday......:flag:

Radium
29-12-2015, 07:36 PM
I would have preferred us to go 3-5-2, but we never.....It's done now, let's hope it gives us a shot in the arm and we go again on Saturday......:flag:


We seem to have a 442 & 352 that the players can move between [with the subtleties of who is is picked] just think we need to be able to play 4231 at times - the problem with the players we have is the 1

Onion
29-12-2015, 07:58 PM
Won't be blaming Stubbs for anything.

For too long, we've had gormless, inept managers at Hibs whose main attribute was their ability to roll out excuse after excuse for the latest debacle and horrendous performance.

We've lost 1 game is 4 months. IMO that makes AS above criticism. He's done an amazing job, built great spirit, brought in some very decent players and restored the joy of going along to ER. If yesterday is as bad as it gets as a Hibs fan under Stubbs, then good times ahead.

blackpoolhibs
29-12-2015, 08:33 PM
Won't be blaming Stubbs for anything.

For too long, we've had gormless, inept managers at Hibs whose main attribute was their ability to roll out excuse after excuse for the latest debacle and horrendous performance.

We've lost 1 game is 4 months. IMO that makes AS above criticism. He's done an amazing job, built great spirit, brought in some very decent players and restored the joy of going along to ER. If yesterday is as bad as it gets as a Hibs fan under Stubbs, then good times ahead.

:agree: He will see everyone in training and who's flying and those that are not so on it. He's earnt the right to pick the team and the formation because of the results we've had over a LONG period of time.

It is absolutely ridiculous that folk are having a pop at him now, when the same folk were having a go at me for criticising the team after a defeat to Alloa?

What the hell has changed apart from us having a long winning run of games?

WhileTheChief..
29-12-2015, 09:03 PM
Nobody to blame for anything. It was a cracking game with a disappointing result. It happens.

J-C
29-12-2015, 09:12 PM
You can only blame the players for the result, individual errors cost us not the manager, what I would say though is his team selection could have been better, not playing Malonga was a mistake.

Yes it was a poor performance but to attempt to put the blame squarely on Stubbs shoulders is ridiculous, we have been lacklustre since the international break and maybe a good kick up the ***** of some players is needed.

Northernhibee
29-12-2015, 10:26 PM
FFS! Its a football fans forum. I'm sure you are not a political commentator but it doesnae stop you tattering the SNP on The Holy Ground threads at every opportunity does it?

:violin:Awwwwwwww, diddums, do some people see through your precious little cult, do they? Have a lollipop and a lie down.

Furthermore, this is a Hibs forum. Many people on here are fed up of people who look at any opportunity to rip into our team against all logic and statistics. A Hibs forum is there for Hibs fans, not for fans of every team.

By the same logic if you think that criticising the SNP on a political section of the forum is a no go, that tends to suggest that you'd prefer it to only belong to those who are nationalists. I can name some people in history who felt that only one political view is correct and the rest can be banished, and each one of those is rather a nasty person indeed. :wink:

HUTCHYHIBBY
29-12-2015, 11:10 PM
:violin:Awwwwwwww, diddums, do some people see through your precious little cult, do they? Have a lollipop and a lie down.

Furthermore, this is a Hibs forum. Many people on here are fed up of people who look at any opportunity to rip into our team against all logic and statistics. A Hibs forum is there for Hibs fans, not for fans of every team.

By the same logic if you think that criticising the SNP on a political section of the forum is a no go, that tends to suggest that you'd prefer it to only belong to those who are nationalists. I can name some people in history who felt that only one political view is correct and the rest can be banished, and each one of those is rather a nasty person indeed. :wink:

I've not got the slightest interest in politics so they are far from being my little cult, I just read the threads cos I enjoy the bitchiness (pretty much like your post I quoted above) that gets flung back and forward. Your final paragraph is just ridiculous.